Immigration officials have discovered a massive underground tunnel connecting Tijuana to San Diego, a tunnel that's wide enough in some places to fit a car. Officials found two tons of marijuana underground and they suspect the tunnels may have been used to smuggle illegal aliens, as well.
The Rev. Robin Hoover is the president of Humane Borders wants to give illegal aliens a map indicating rescue beacons and water stations to help them cross the border safely.
Hoover joined Tucker Carlson Thursday on ‘Situation’ to explain why he wants to aid these people.
To read an excerpt from their conversation, continue to the text below. To watch the video, click on the "Launch" button to the right.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, ‘SITUATION’: Why are you helping people break American law?
REV. ROBIN HOOVER, PRESIDENT, HUMANE BORDERS: That's not what we're doing. We're out here giving real true warnings of what is lying before these folks and trying to counteract the information that the migrants are receiving from the coyotes. We print these warning posters that show them the true distances, as opposed to the coyotes, that tell them that you'll walk a few hours and you're going to be Las Vegas.
CARLSON: Right. But in effect, what you're doing is helping people break American law by sneaking over the border from Mexico to the United States?
HOOVER: These maps have been in place since May of 2005. The border patrol here has no problem with it. What the conflict is between Washington, D.C., and Mexico City.
CARLSON: Well, I mean, I'm certainly not here to take the side of the border patrol. I don't care what the border patrol thinks. It just seems clear to me that what you're doing is helping people break American law. And I understand that your position is you're helping them and keeping them from dying, which in some—is admirable, strictly speaking.
HOOVER: Thank you. There are 300 of them died out here last year, and that's unacceptable.
CARLSON: It is unacceptable.
HOOVER: The border patrol's been charged by Congress since 1998 to do a major migrant safety initiative, and they have not been effective in any way.
CARLSON: But wait a second. Aren't you part of the problem, because you're giving people the illusion that you can cross the border in a safer manner when there will always be a risk in crossing the border? Wouldn't it be more humane for you to tell people don't even try it, you can die?
HOOVER: I understand the concept. We have social scientific evidence that shows the migrant stations—migrant water stations do not affect the flow of the migration. And we have had the maps up for a year, and the border patrol claims that in that particular area the migration has reduced.
CARLSON: I think we have common sense that says if you make something easier and safer for a person, that person is likely to attempt it more and more often.
HOOVER: Have you read the maps?
CARLSON: But hold on.
HOOVER: Have you read them?
CARLSON: Here's my question to you. Wouldn't it be safer not to attempt to cross at all? Aren't you in favor of building a wall between Mexico and the United States so there will be no illegal immigration and therefore no people dying in the desert trying to get here?
HOOVER: I agree with what the governor said here: “Show me a 50-foot fence and I'll show you a 51-foot ladder.” It took 10 years to build 13 miles of fencing in San Diego. Do the math. It's going to take into the next century to build this wall.
CARLSON: That is absolutely ridiculous. The Hoover Dam was—come on. Israel has built a fence between itself and the occupied territories which has reduced migration between the two areas 100 percent. You can't get across it. If we send a man to the moon—I mean, come on.
HOOVER: This this is 2,000 miles. Duncan Hunter is wrong on this one.
CARLSON: OK. Have you been threatened with prosecution at any point for helping people break American law?
HOOVER: No.
CARLSON: And do you fear that you will be?
HOOVER: No.
CARLSON: OK. It seems to me your agenda is pretty clear: you are in favor of seeing people come in illegally?
HOOVER: No.
CARLSON: You would like to see illegal immigration end?
HOOVER: I would love to see illegal immigration end tomorrow. I would love for the migrants to quit coming. I would love for American employers to quit luring them and bringing them here and hiring coyotes.
I would love for us to have an orderly border. I would love to see the migration move back to the ports of entry, documented, inspected. Leave the border patrol between the ports of entry to do traditional law enforcement, for which there is a very significant need.
Right now we are wasting border patrol efforts by looking for people that are coming up here and being rewarded for work in Las Vegas and working in all kinds of industries.
CARLSON: I agree with you. Someone ought to crack down on employers.
HOOVER: But we're doing it wrong.
CARLSON: I absolutely agree with that. And there's political pressure not to crack down on employers, restaurant owners and big agriculture. And I think you're absolutely right.
But my question, again, for the third time, is why aren't you doing your part to spread the word to would-be illegal aliens, don't come here?
HOOVER: Follow the logic of this, please. After a year of putting up these maps we knew that we needed these maps in the cities of origin. And that's why we dealt with the National Commission on Human Rights. They were willing to put the information in the communities that would actually warn people and say, “Look at this. See all these deaths? See how far it is to walk? See that there's no supplies.”
It says don't go. There's not enough water. Don't pay the penalty. If you do, for God's sake, prepare.