updated 2/3/2006 11:45:14 AM ET 2006-02-03T16:45:14

Guests: Marcus Hill, Cole Thaler, Will Black, Heidi Raykiel, Max Kellerman, Richard Simmons

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY”: Thank you for this privilege, Joe Scarborough.  The situation with Tucker Carlson starts now.  What‘s the situation tonight?

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST:  It‘s nice to see you.  Thanks a lot. 

SMERCONISH:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Thanks to you at home for tuning in tonight.  We appreciate it, as always. 

Tonight an interview with the head of the group Stop Her Now.  That‘s a grassroots effort to prevent Hillary Clinton from becoming president in ‘08.  But can the former first lady be stopped?  Or like an evil superhero, does attacking her just make her stronger?

Also, a speech last night in North Carolina.  Julian Bond compared Republicans to Nazis.  That else did he say that led one black family to walk out in protest?

Plus, are you prepared to hear confessions from a naughty mommy?  Author Heidi Raykeil stops by in just a few minutes to tell us how she got her sexual groove back after becoming a mother.

We begin tonight with an outrageous story out of North Carolina. 

Just yesterday, a judge there throw out the roadside breathalyzer test results of an obviously drunk Spanish speaker, saying that the officers had a duty to give him his rights in Spanish.  That decision is just the latest in a string of judgments that have dismissed breathalyzer results due to the language barrier.

Marcus Hill is a lawyer who‘s represented non-English speaking defendants against DUI charges.  He joins us live tonight from Raleigh, North Carolina. 

Mr. Hill, thanks a lot for joining us. 

MARCUS HILL, ATTORNEY:  You‘re welcome. 

CARLSON:  The message here seems to be if you don‘t learn—bother to learn our language, you don‘t have to obey our laws. 

HILL:  I wouldn‘t say that‘s the message.  I‘d say the message is that everybody has rights, and they need to be protected. 

CARLSON:  OK.  But what about the rights of the rest of us to drive on a road unthreatened by drunk drivers, who kill thousands each year?

HILL:  Well, drunk drivers are a great menace, but that doesn‘t mean that we should end the protections and rights that our Constitution provides us. 

CARLSON:  How does someone who is loaded behind the wheel, driving erratically and is pulled over for that reason, have a right to get off because he doesn‘t speak English?  That‘s insane.  I‘m trying to treat this respectfully, and I am approaching you with respect, but that—that‘s crazy. 

HILL:  Well, in fact, he didn‘t get off.  In fact, he got convicted.  And in fact, it wasn‘t the roadside breath test; it was the in-house breath test, called the Intoxilyzer device.  And the judge ruled that he wasn‘t properly read his rights.  That‘s often true, even with English speakers.

CARLSON:  But the roadside breathalyzer test, which, as I understand it, was administered properly.  No one‘s contesting that.  That the test results were accurate from that roadside test.  That was thrown out because the guy doesn‘t speak English and the officer doesn‘t speak Spanish. 

Why do police officers have an obligation to speak the same language as the people they pull over?

HILL:  They do not.  They do have an obligation to provide the rights to the person in a forum in which he can understand, as long as that‘s a reasonable obligation.  There‘s a Spanish translation in the magistrate‘s office in Durham.  And all they have to do is hand the paper to the defendant, and they‘ve complied with their obligation. 

CARLSON:  What if the person doesn‘t speak Spanish, though?  I mean, there are literally thousands of languages around the world.  Why is the onus on American police officers, who speak English, and should speak English?  Why is the onus on them to communicate with someone who, again, hasn‘t bothered to learn the language of the United States?

HILL:  Well, the requirement of the statute is just to provide the person their rights.  It‘s not required by statute that you provide it in any language but English.  But judges have on occasion ruled that you‘re required, if it‘s possible and easily feasible, to provide it in a format in which the defendant can understand it, which seems very fair, as long as that‘s feasible.  We‘re not saying you have to provide Mandarin Chinese or some exotic language; we‘re talking about Spanish, which is spoken by a goodly portion of the residents of Durham. 

CARLSON:  But the principle is exactly the same, as you know.  And so, you know, standards that rely on terms like “reasonable” or “easily accessible.”  I mean, those really are slippery slopes.  And you‘re not the judge, and I‘m not attacking you for that, because it‘s not your fault.  But you are taking advantage of it, it seems to me. 

Doesn‘t this give drunk drivers an incentive to pretend not to speak English?  Of course it does.

HILL:  Well, there are people who are said to pretend not to speak English.  A lot of the Spanish speakers in my practice speak some English, understand some English, but it‘s very limited.  And a rights form is very complicated document that even a well-educated man might have trouble understanding. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  I wonder, really, what there is to understand.  You drive in such a way that a police officer believes you may be loaded and therefore a danger to everyone else driving.  He brings out a device and says, “Blow in this.”  That‘s almost the international language of DUI.  Everybody gets that.  What is there to not understand, exactly?

HILL:  Well, for instance, in North Carolina, you have the right to call a witness or an attorney and you have only 30 minutes to have them there.  That‘s an important right.  And if you waive that right, you don‘t have to wait that 30 minutes.  That‘s an important right.

You have the right to refuse.  That‘s an important right that you have under our Constitution and our law, that you must be informed of before you‘re required to take the test. 

CARLSON:  Don‘t you think that making exceptions for people who don‘t speak English and, in fact, throwing out the results of a perfectly valid test simply because, again, the person doesn‘t speak English, doesn‘t that provide a disincentive to people learning English?  We want people who come to this country—I‘m not even asking you whether these people are legal or illegal aliens, because I‘m trying not to demagogue this too much.  But doesn‘t it provide a disincentive to people who move here to learn the language, the common language that we share?

HILL:  Well, I don‘t think it provides a disincentive.  I think there‘s many great incentives to learn English.  I think there‘s difficulties with that with the Hispanic population.  But we‘re not talking about whether we‘re letting people speak Spanish or English.  We‘re talking about providing people a statement of their rights, which is required by North Carolina statute, in a form that they could conceivably understand. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  I think they could conceivably learn English.  Just my view.  Mr. Hill, thanks a lot for joining us.

HILL:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  It looks like non-English speaking drunks aren‘t the only ones getting a break these days.  Thanks to yet another judge, transsexual prisoners in Wisconsin will continue to get expensive, gender changing hormone therapy, despite a new state law barring the use of taxpayer money for inmate sex changes. 

Here to defend the right of prisoners to use your money for sex changes, Cole Thaler.  He‘s a lawyer with the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.  He joins us live tonight from Atlanta. 

Mr. Thaler, thanks for coming on. 

COLE THALER, LAWYER, LAMBDA LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND:  Thanks for having me, Tucker.

CARLSON:  The state law seems pretty clear.  The people of Wisconsin don‘t want to pay for inmates to change their sex.  So why should the taxpayers be paying for inmates to change their sex?  I don‘t get it.

THALER:  Actually, Tucker, the lawsuit that‘s been filed by Lambda Legal and the ACLU is not about any particular medical treatment.  It‘s about what the Constitution requires prisons to provide in terms of health care to transgender inmates. 

And the three clients that Lambda Legal and the ACLU represent have been receiving hormone therapy for a serious health condition for years and years, and the law that has been passed by the Wisconsin—Wisconsin legislators withdraws the treatments that they have been receiving for all of their adult lives and puts them at serious risk of harm. 

CARLSON:  OK.  There is so much spin in the sentence you just uttered, I just want to unpack it here slowly.  The therapy they‘re receiving for a serious condition, what is this serious condition afflicting these people?

THALER:  The clients that Lambda Legal and the ACLU represent have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder, which has been recognized, both by the medical establishment and by all of the courts that have... 

CARLSON:  So are they going to die if they don‘t get it?

THALER:  There are potentially life-threatening risks of not receiving it.

CARLSON:  Such as?  What, are they going to have a heart attack? 

Cancer?  What are the risks?

THALER:  Hormone therapy, Tucker, affects every system in the body, including the cardiovascular system, the metabolism.  There are serious health risks, including potentially suicide, self injury. 

CARLSON:  Now—I‘m sorry, Mr. Thaler.  I want to treat, again, you with respect, but you‘re spinning me.  These are people who are men who believe that somehow they weren‘t meant to be men and they should be women.  And they want to be women.  And they think the state should pay them to make the transformation to men to women, male to female.  That‘s the bottom line.  And you know what?  To pass this off as some sort of an emergency appendectomy is not telling the straight truth.

THALER:  Actually, Tucker, the bottom line is the substitution of the legislature‘s judgment about what‘s appropriate medical treatment for medical judgment.  Legislators are not in the business of making medical judgment.  That‘s the doctor‘s job. 

CARLSON:  Give me—give me a break.  Doctors don‘t have a right in this country to decide societal norms.  I‘m sorry.  They‘re physicians.  We respect them.  They don‘t get to—they don‘t get to decide what the rest of society believes is acceptable and unacceptable.  Voters do.  It‘s a democracy.  It‘s not a society run by doctors.

And people don‘t believe in Wisconsin—they said so, in a referendum

they don‘t believe that a sex change is a medical necessity.  Are you arguing that it is?

THALER:  I‘m arguing that the medical providers that have been giving treatment to all of our clients have determined that this is medically necessary for them.  And the Department of Corrections in Wisconsin pays doctors to make medical judgments.  The reason that the Department of Corrections has doctors is to treat each patient individually and to provide medical treatment that is in accordance...

CARLSON:  I can tell you‘ve been doing focus groups that tell you that throwing out the term “medical” is the way to success on this issue.  But let‘s just—let‘s just keep this perfectly clear.  These are people who believe that they should be another sex.  They are not dying of anything.  They don‘t have a chronic, physical condition.  They don‘t have cancer.  They don‘t have coronary artery disease.  They don‘t have diabetes.  They have a desire to become women.  That‘s different than a chronic disease. 

THALER:  Actually, Tucker, the American Psychiatric Association recognizes that the risk of not providing treatment to people who have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder could have potentially disastrous consequences.  That‘s the words and the term of the American Psychiatric Association.  Gender identity disorder is a recognized, serious health condition. 

CARLSON:  So a bunch of shrinks—just because a bunch of shrinks says something is so don‘t make it so.

But let me just get to the kind of bottom line principle issue here.  Don‘t the voters of Wisconsin have a right to determine what their tax dollars go to?  And isn‘t that right expressed in the form of a referendum, an election?  Don‘t they get to vote on it?  Or do the shrinks run everything in Wisconsin and the Lambda Legal Defense Fund?  Are you in charge now?

THALER:  Actually, Tucker, 30 years ago the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the Eight Amendment set certain constitutional requirements for the healthcare that is provided to inmates in prison.  And—and the contours and the scope of that treatment is appropriately determined by doctors.  That is a policy that was in place prior to the Wisconsin legislature passing this law last month. 

CARLSON:  Doctors—doctors are not God, and a sex change operation is not a medical necessity.  I feel sorry for these guys.  I really do.  I think they must be very troubled people.  But I can understand why people in Wisconsin don‘t want to pay for it.  But they probably will, because you seem like a smart guy. And you‘ll probably end up winning, unfortunately. 

Cole Thaler, thanks a lot.

THALER:  Thank you, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Still to come, two former cocktail waitresses are suing a popular casino for $70 million.  An outrageous lawsuit involving breast surgery, cleavage baring, bustiers and weight limits.  You‘ve got to watch that. 

Plus, can anybody stop Hillary Clinton from winning the White House in ‘08?  A group called Stop Her Now is trying at all costs.  But is it succeeding?  This is going to be a landmark television moment, as I sort of defend the first lady.  So stay tuned.  We‘ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.

Hillary Clinton may be losing some steam as a Democratic frontrunner in 2008, at least if recent polls are any indication, but there‘s one group that may well change that.  Stop Her Now wants to kill Hillary‘s candidacy for president, and some fear, sadly, that the group could wind up helping her instead. 

Will Black is the executive director of that group, whose mission is to, quote, “rescue America from the radical ideas of Hillary Clinton.”  He joins us tonight live from Washington. 

Will Black, welcome.

WILL BLACK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STOP HER NOW:  Thank you for having me, Tucker.  Appreciate it.

CARLSON:  Let me just say I‘m in no way impeaching your intent, which is, you know, beyond approach.  It‘s sterling.  I mean, you‘ve got the right idea. 

BLACK:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Here‘s my problem with it.  This is a woman who thrives, who really exists, because of her adversaries. 

BLACK:  Absolutely.

CARLSON:  She is a senator because her husband cheated on her and people felt sorry for her. 

BLACK:  That‘s right.

CARLSON:  She is popular because there are a lot of people who hate her, and her supporters feel sorry for her.  Aren‘t you adding to that cycle?

BLACK:  I share your concern with that, and I hear that a lot, but let me say this.  I think—I don‘t think that that‘s a reason for those that are concerned about Hillary Clinton‘s ideas and where she‘d like to take this country to just sort of flip over and play dead.  I—I really do believe that, even if we didn‘t exist, she‘d have to make us up. 

CARLSON:  Yes. 

BLACK:  Whether, you know, it was this sort of ephemeral (ph), vast, right-wing conspiracy.  I‘ve never been invited to that meeting.  You know, she‘d make it up, in essence.

CARLSON:  But you‘re making it so she doesn‘t have to make it up.  And she can say, “There‘s this character, Will Black, and his right-wing cronies.  And they‘re meeting in basements and townhouses all over Washington, D.C., festooned with automatic firearms and packages of Marlboro cigarettes, planning my demise.” 

BLACK:  That‘s right.

CARLSON:  Well?

BLACK:  So...

CARLSON:  Wouldn‘t it be better just to...

BLACK:  Maybe that helps her with—I‘m not sure that that helps her sway any votes that—that weren‘t already with her anyway.  I think that type of red meat does play to her base, which is where her money is in the first place. 

CARLSON:  Well, see, here‘s the other dynamic, though.  Hillary Clinton has—has been over the past year under fire from the left, from the true believers in her party, from the Democratic base...

BLACK:  Yes.  Yes.

CARLSON:  ...because of her support for the war in Iraq, which has been pretty steadfast, actually. 

BLACK:  Yes.  Yes.

CARLSON:  So isn‘t it better to stand back and let the left wing of the Democratic Party force Hillary to the left, thereby alienating her from the rest of the country in time for 2008?

BLACK:  Well, here‘s the situation with that.  I don‘t think we have to wait for them to take her out.  I think that she will—it‘s been very interesting to watch her over the last six months. 

The last six—the last six months were, in the changing of the colors of the chameleon, more to the moderate side.  It‘s interesting.  It‘s as though she woke up on January 1 of this year and decided, “Well, OK, I‘ve done enough playing to the moderates.  Let me play to the left a little bit.” 

You know, she‘s now started making noises about nationalized health care again.  The plantation remarks certainly didn‘t endear her to any moderates. 

CARLSON:  Yes.

BLACK:  You know, I think as long as she‘s going to play the zig and zag game, somebody‘s got to be there to, you know, stand up and call it. 

CARLSON:  Well, why—I wonder this.  You often hear say, “Well, all these Hillary haters out there.”  And you don‘t seem like a wild-eyed crazy to me at all. 

BLACK:  Absolutely not.  Absolutely not.

CARLSON:  But there are, you know, what, I guess about 45 Democratic senators, a lot to choose from. 

BLACK:  Sure.

CARLSON:  Some of them are decent, pretty cool people.  Some of them are not.  Why Hillary?

BLACK:  Why Hillary?  I‘ll tell you why Hillary.  Because Hillary is right now.  Even though there are 51 percent of this country say there‘s no way they‘d vote for her for president, Hillary is the frontrunner of the Democratic Party.  I think that speaks volumes about where the Democratic Party is right now.

But we‘ve got—Hillary, as long as she is out in front, it‘s just as though—you know, the same situation with John Kerry.  He became the nominee.  I can guarantee you people were out looking into his record, calling him for what it was, long before he ever achieved the nomination. 

Hillary Clinton also is—you know, John Kerry, back in that campaign, they talked about how “National Journal” had ranked him the No. 1 most liberal voting senator.  Hillary Clinton is actually number 10.  She‘s one step ahead of Ted Kennedy. 

CARLSON:  Yes.

BLACK:  That‘s a fact that‘s really not discussed very often.  So you take those two, combine those two factors, I mean, you can‘t not call it to the attention of the American people. 

CARLSON:  Give me the bottom line, as someone who‘s thought a lot about Hillary Clinton and her political prospects.

BLACK:  Sure.

CARLSON:  Do you think she could win if she got the nomination?  Do you think she could be elected president?

BLACK:  I actually will give you an answer now, and tomorrow I‘d probably give you another answer.  I vacillate on that back and forth.

What I do know about Hillary Clinton, though, is that she learned at the foot of the master.  She is surrounded by a political operation that is really, I have to hand—hand—take my hat off to them.  Sorry about that.  They were—this is the same group of people that were able to take an impeached, disbarred, thoroughly discredited president and rehabilitate him to the extent that he left office with relatively decent approval ratings. 

CARLSON:  Yes.

BLACK:  These are the same people that are in Hillary‘s operation right now.

CARLSON:  And this is the electorate that gave him...

BLACK:  Absolutely.  Absolutely right. 

CARLSON:  That‘s something never to forget.  Will Black, someone who never forgets it.

BLACK:  That‘s right.

CARLSON:   Thank you for joining us. 

BLACK:  Thank you.  Appreciate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Still ahead, the head of the NAACP blasts President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell at a speech in North Carolina.  What did he say that has a lot of the country fuming mad?  Find out when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back to our show. 

Are Republicans Nazis?  Civil rights activists and NAACP chairman Julian Bond says they are.  Speaking at Faithful State University in North Carolina, Bond said, quote, “The Republican Party would have the American flag and the swastika flying side by side.” 

He also implied race relations were on the rocks and blamed the Bush administration for making Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her predecessor, Colin Powell, quote, “tokens.”

Here to give us her take on this, MSNBC political contributor Flavia Colgan.  She joins us live tonight from Burbank. 

Flavia, when, oh, when is somebody brave going to stand up and say, “You know, NAACP, honorable history.  It‘s done a lot of great things.  You have run your course, time to disband and get to something real?

FLAVIA COLGAN, MSNBC POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, no, I‘m not going to say that.  What I will say is that I think that Bond, if this is what he plans to give as an answer to some very legitimate concerns that I have over Bush‘s policy and how they affect civil rights, this is outrageous.  To call anyone a Nazi degrades the memory of six million people that were systematically killed. 

And you know what?  I think that myself and a lot of progressives and Americans are just tired of this over-the-top rhetoric.  We want someone who‘s going to present a vision, leadership and some sort of alternative.  If he has a problem with the Bush administration and his policies, which as you know, Tucker, so do I, then put up a solution.  You know, saying these things...

CARLSON:  That‘s not going to work.  Politically, that‘s a lot easier said than done for this reason.  Everybody knows—Julian Bond is a smart guy.  We had him on the other day.  Julian Bond is not stupid, and he‘s not, by temperament, a bomb throwing. 

Julian Bond is not saying this because he can‘t control himself; he‘s saying it for a reason.  And it‘s this: if the Republicans are the Nazis, he‘s got a job.  He justifies his own existence by making his opponents out to be this clear and present danger, when they‘re not. 

The point is, there‘s very little government can do at this point, after 40 years, to advance the cause of civil rights.  There are a lot of inequities in this world, but people can‘t look to the government at this point to solve them.  Government‘s done almost all it can do.  Let‘s be honest.

COLGAN:  Tucker, look, facts are facts.  I mean, under the Bush administration the gap between the poor and the rich has widened.  I mean, look at the way blacks and minorities are suffering from AIDS at a huge, astronomical higher rate than whites.  I mean, there‘s a lot...

(CROSS TALK)

CARLSON:  Wait.  Perfect.  Let‘s stop there.  You‘re absolutely right.

COLGAN:  The way public school—the way public school is funded.

CARLSON:  I‘m conceding...

COLGAN:  ... is a violation of the equal protection cause, as far as I‘m concerned. 

CARLSON:   Slow down.  Let‘s back up one.  You‘re absolutely right.  And the president mentioned this in his speech just the other night.  That HIV and AIDS rates in black America are really high.  And this is a terrible and very disturbing thing, and it‘s getting worse. 

What does government do about that exactly?  What does government do that it hasn‘t done for the past 25 years to fix that problem?  I don‘t know.  I don‘t think Bush knows, and I bet you don‘t know.  I don‘t think there‘s nothing government can do.  It‘s kind of the bottom line, don‘t you think?

COLGAN:  Well, I don‘t—I certainly don‘t know how to solve the problem of AIDS.  If I did I wouldn‘t be sitting on this program tonight.

CARLSON:  Sure.  Good point.

COLGAN:  But I do know that Bush‘s policies and some of the cuts that he‘s made, and whether it‘s Ryan White funding, that he now says he‘s putting back; whether it‘s some of the housing programs that he‘s taken away from those that are suffering with HIV; some of the funding to have early prevention and so forth.  I do not think... 

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON:  You don‘t believe that.  You don‘t believe that AIDS rates are going up right black America because the Ryan White program was cut.  I mean, come on.  Let‘s be totally real.  That has nothing to do with transmission rates, and you know it?

COLGAN:  Tucker, let‘s—look, let‘s be totally real. 

CARLSON:  Yes.

COLGAN:  Other compassionate conservatives, African-Americans and Hispanics across this country have not done as well.  And we can have a long-range policy discussion as to why that is the case. 

The fact is that Julian Bond saying what he did the other night is not only disgraceful and it‘s offensive, but it also does nothing to advance the cause that his organization says that they care about.  All this does is make people tune out. 

And you may think that this is people in—the head of special interest groups and politicians—need to do.  They need to do that to maybe gin up their base, but average Americans—if my in-box needs anything—they‘re not happy with this insane rhetoric.  They‘re just not. 

CARLSON:  It‘s a crock.  They know why.  Do you know why they know it‘s a crock?  Because they know it‘s no longer 1965.  People know that intuitively.  The problems have changed, the solutions have changed.  The demands on government have changed; the expectations of what government can do to fix those problems have changed. 

It is no longer Selma.  It is a new—is a new era.  And I‘m just afraid that we are acting as if we are living 40 years ago.  And I think the Democratic Party, and all of its little satellite organizations, very much including Bond‘s organization, are part of the public.  Let‘s be real for a second?

COLGAN:  Well, look, I‘m not going to say that I‘m a proponent of some, you know, vast welfare state.  Certainly not.  The American people are very hard working people.

But the government can and should make a positive difference in people‘s lives.  It‘s not saying that Bush doesn‘t that.  But I do think that the progressive values and what they put on the table in terms of social services that tend to help those that are, you know, more in need and these huge gigantic tax cuts to the higher echelon of society that doesn‘t trickle down in the way that I think it should for average working people, which affects, unfortunately, still, minorities at a disproportionate rate.  But again, none of this was talked about by Julian bond. 

CARLSON:  Maybe—Maybe.

COLGAN:  That‘s the point. 

CARLSON:  Government can barely deliver the mail.  I think it‘s just time to be honest about that.  I think we just need to, you know what I mean?  Move to—whatever it is, the equivalent of FedEx.  OK.  You want a package to get there, you don‘t bring it to the post office, pall.  You call FedEx.  And I think it‘s time to think in those terms about social policies.  Just my view.

COLGAN:  I‘d watch your back, criticizing mail delivery people.  They have a history (ph)

CARLSON:  I‘m a FedEx guy. 

Flavia Colgan, thanks for joining us from L.A. tonight.  I appreciate it.

COLGAN:   Thank you, Tucker. 

Still ahead, my emotional sit-down interview with the one, the only Richard Simmons.  Out discussion nearly brought the fitness icon to tears.  We‘ll show you that in just a moment. 

Plus who says your sex life has to get downhill after you get married.  The “naughty mommy” tells us how she spices things up in the bedroom when we come back.  We know you‘re going to stay tuned.  We‘re going to remind you to anyway.  We‘ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Naughty mommy.  The (INAUDIBLE) words are enough to make a grown man weak.  I‘m glad I‘m sitting down as I say it, actually.

So what exactly turns a conventional suburban mom into a naughty sex fiend?  Let‘s ask one.  Heidi Raykeil is the author of the book, “Confessions of a Naughty Mommy: How I Found My Lost Libido.”  She joins us live from Seattle tonight.  Heidi, you look very naughty tonight.  Thanks for joining us.

HEIDI RAYKEIL, AUTHOR:  I‘m feeling naughty. 

CARLSON:  OK, that‘s the spirit.  Heidi, where did you find your libido?  How did you find it? 

RAYKEIL:  Honestly, it‘s an ongoing battle.  But I found it everywhere. 

CARLSON:  Really?  So you had children.  I think you had—it sounds like an experience that probably a lot of young mothers have.  You have this happy marriage, you know, lots of romance.  You have children, the baby arrives, and all of a sudden a screeching halt to the love. 

RAYKEIL:  Right.  Right.  There was plenty of love, it was just directed towards my daughter instead of my husband. 

CARLSON:  Right, I meant love in the most pornographic sense. 

RAYKEIL:  Yes, of course you did.

CARLSON:  So how did you—so what did you do? 

RAYKEIL:  You know, I didn‘t even really realize there was a problem. 

It was my husband who brought it to my attention. 

CARLSON:  Good for him. 

RAYKEIL:  I didn‘t actually miss not wanting sex.  I didn‘t really think about it that much.  I mean, I kind of wanted to want sex, but I really didn‘t want it.  So it was a problem—I realized it was more of a problem when we started fighting about it all the time. 

CARLSON:  Yes, no, I think and that‘s—you know, a lot of marriages are seriously damaged for good over this question.  So what did you do? 

RAYKEIL:  Yes.  Well, I wrote a book. 

CARLSON:  Good for you. 

RAYKEIL:  I wrote a book about it.

CARLSON:  Good for you.  And that‘s the answer, become an author? 

RAYKEIL:  That‘s the answer, yes.  I think everybody should just get out there and write a book. 

No, in a way, sort of it was the answer, because I started writing an anonymous column online at LiteraryMomma.com, and I was just doing that as a way to process what was going on for me and my husband and why we were fighting, and just how much—how conflicted I was about who I had been and who I was then.  And then also just, you know, it was a good way for me to vent to people.  And I was doing that anonymously, but then all these other moms kept e-mailing me saying that it was such an important story, and they felt the same way.  And so I outed myself and wrote a book. 

CARLSON:  Here—it‘s an incredibly important story.  Here is some of the advice that you give in the book.  The husband needs to show support to the wife.  Women, you point out, are acutely aware of the changes in their body.  They don‘t need to be reminded by their husbands. 

RAYKEIL:  Right. 

CARLSON:  You also say that you think emotion is hot, and that you want your husband to be emotional and to cry and to reveal himself.  You don‘t mean that, do you?

RAYKEIL:  I don‘t want him to be, you know, blubbering all the time, but yes, I think it‘s hot when he shows emotions.  I just think that a woman‘s biggest sex organ is her brain—I know that‘s kind of cliche, but it‘s true—that‘s the thing that really gets me going, is feeling connected and having a good time and laughing and feeling like I like my husband.

CARLSON:  So you, OK, a woman and her husband, a new mother and a new father are at home, and they‘re just getting reacquainted, and the baby starts crying.  I mean, it‘s over, right?  What do you do then?

RAYKEIL:  Yes, well, I mean, foreplay has to kind of take like a week now.  It‘s not like—you know, so maybe it‘s interrupted when a baby cries, but—but it‘s going to look better the night—baby steps.  Baby steps.  You‘re closer the next time and the next time and the next time.  And you know, you just have to...

CARLSON:  Wow.  So be patient is a big part of this now. 

RAYKEIL:  You‘ve got to be patient.  And one of the biggest things is don‘t compare the amount of sex you had pre-baby to the amount of sex you‘re having post-baby, because that‘s just a losing deal.  There‘s no way you‘re going to feel good about it.

CARLSON:  But give hope in your final words to our viewers.  I mean, it‘s a whole lot better when you have a newborn, right?  No, that‘s such (INAUDIBLE)...

RAYKEIL:  No, actually, honestly, my sex life is so much better now than it was before, because my husband and I are talking about it.  And really what it comes down to is quality, not quantity.  I mean, our sex—we might not have it as much now, but when we do, it‘s pretty darn good. 

CARLSON:  Outstanding.  Heidi Raykeil, author of “Confessions of a Naughty Mommy: How I Found My Lost Libido.”  You‘re going to sell millions of copies. 

RAYKEIL:  Yay!  Yes. 

CARLSON:  Thanks for coming on.

RAYKEIL:  And go Seahawks. 

CARLSON:  Go Seahawks!  All right.  Thanks, Heidi. 

RAYKEIL:  OK.

CARLSON:  Stay tuned.  There‘s still plenty more ahead on THE SITUATION tonight. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON (voice-over):  You‘ve been served.  Is this Atlantic City casino taking a legal gamble by forcing cocktail waitresses to measure up to the job? 

Plus, from our stupid suspect file, wait until you hear why this alleged pothead gives a whole new meaning to the term “dope.”

And an emotional exchange with Richard Simmons.  The fitness guru sweats and weeps right here on our stage. 

RICHARD SIMMONS:  And I love this feeling.

CARLSON:  It‘s all ahead on THE SITUATION.

SIMMONS:  Such negative stuff on TV.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Thomas Aquinas once said, “reason in man is rather like God in the world.”  Joining me now, a very reasonable man, the Outsider, ESPN radio and HBO boxing host Max Kellerman.  Max.

MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN RADIO:  Prime mover unmoved.  That‘s what I remember about Aquinas.

CARLSON:  I‘m impressed.  I dare you to define what it means.  No, we don‘t have time.

KELLERMAN:  I actually could.

CARLSON:  OK, I bet.  First up, two former cocktail waitresses are hoping to hit the jackpot with a $70 million lawsuit they‘ve filed against the Borgata Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey.  Women who worked as so-called Borgata Babes charge they were judged less on their work and more on, quote, “the size of their breasts and waistlines.”  They say they were required to sign a consent form in which they agreed to keep an hourglass figure and were, quote, “constructively discharged” from the casino last year.

The company says, quote, “as an employer of choice, Borgata stands by its employment policy,” end quote.

And end of story, as far as I‘m concerned.  This is a job where the appearance of the people who have that job is all-important.  Right?  And appearance matters in a lot of jobs, including this job, including, you know, any job in entertainment, and a lot of jobs in the service industry.  They signed the form. 

Moreover, $70 million?  Get real. 

KELLERMAN:  Well, in the first place, that‘s the American dream, is to sue someone for big money. 

CARLSON:  It‘s disgusting!

KELLERMAN:  But really, there was, you know, once upon a time, the same argument was made for airline stewardesses.  Now, there are airline stewards.  I mean, that was unthinkable before these lawsuits were brought against airline companies, that said, wait a minute.  You‘re only hiring...

CARLSON:  Flight attendants.

KELLERMAN:  What did I say?  Airline stewardesses? 

CARLSON:  Yeah.  See how socially retrograde you are.  But actually...

KELLERMAN:  But the point is, they were once known that way, right?

CARLSON:  And I‘m not against that, frankly.  I think it‘s nice to have pretty stewardesses.  That‘s just my view.

KELLERMAN:  Flight attendants, you mean. 

CARLSON:  Right. 

KELLERMAN:  But the point is, that same argument was made successfully, that yes, this is the service industry in a way, and yes, you want to put a certain foot forward, a certain face on it.  And yet it is illegal to discriminate based on gender or appearances, it turned out. 

CARLSON:  The difference, though, is a flight attendant has an actual duty, right?  For instance, to help you go down the slide or get the oxygen mask when it falls from the ceiling or whatever.  A hostess is there for a bunch of reasons; one is to be aesthetically pleasing.  I‘m sorry, that is part of the job.  I‘m not saying it‘s just or unjust, but it‘s just the facts.  And these women took that job knowing it.

KELLERMAN:  Well, what if your drink spills?  You don‘t think that‘s as important as getting the oxygen mask, Tucker?  You have to be able to get that new drink there in a timely fashion. 

CARLSON:  I understand, but the casino believes it‘s better to have drinks cleaned up by pretty women than by women who are not.

KELLERMAN:  And they‘re right.

CARLSON:  Mean as they are.

CARLSON:  And in what could be more bad news for the casino industry, compulsive gamblers who want to quit may soon be able to just pop a pill.  A University of Minnesota study found that daily doses of an experimental drug called Nelmethin (ph), often used to treat alcoholism, appeared to curb the craving to gamble, essentially by making it a lot less fun.

Researchers say the drug works best in conjunction with traditional counseling and with therapy. 

You know, I‘m all for helping people who have got compulsive gambling problems, which destroys lives, obviously.  However, here‘s my fear about this drug.  A, I think it adds to the lie that we buy in America, that your problems can be solved by taking a pill.  B, it works by suppressing the pleasure centers in your brain.  And you wonder about the tradeoffs people make when they take drugs like this.  Sure, you don‘t want to gamble anymore, but you also don‘t want to live your life.  You‘re, you know, incapable of feeling joy.

KELLERMAN:  Well, it‘s—you‘re lobotomized in a way.  But it is a temporary lobotomy.  Really, the tragedy of lobotomies—you know, you see “One Flew Over the Cuckoo‘s Nest”—is because that‘s it, those frontal lobes are gone; that‘s the way that person is going to be forever.  A temporary lobotomy?  And suddenly, the end of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo‘s Nest” not so bad, you know.  He will be better tomorrow. 

CARLSON:  Yes, but then you stop taking the drug, and you‘re back at the Keno table. 

KELLERMAN:  Well, the idea is that if it‘s an ongoing thing for the rest of your life, that‘s still a choice.  But the very idea about that pills, your problems can‘t be solved with a pill, and there‘s so much pop culture around this and literature around this, and we‘ve seen it again and again in TV shows and in books, about the be careful about the future and a pill can‘t solve all your problems, like a “Star Trek” episode.

Actually, sometimes a pill can really help. 

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON:  I believed that for so long, and I was completely in favor of freedom through chemicals.  I mean, I was totally pro chemical in every way, and I think it turns out that‘s just untrue.  I don‘t know a single person over the long term who‘s become happier by getting high, whether it‘s from, you know, these drugs or from anything. 

KELLERMAN:  I know for a long time in my life, I got really sick.  I wouldn‘t want to take Nyquill, let me see if I can—why?  What am I—just take the Nyquill.  You‘ll feel better.  You don‘t have to take it forever, just take it when you‘re sick.  Why resist it if it can help? 

CARLSON:  Yes, in the short term.  Like I‘m for penicillin, but I don‘t know, I don‘t think I‘m for this. 

Max Kellerman, great to see you. 

KELLERMAN:  You too. 

CARLSON:  Coming up, Richard Simmons takes THE SITUATION by storm.  Whatever he does tonight, he‘s going to do it with flair, and he‘s going to do it in dolphin running shorts.  We‘re coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Our next guest needs no introduction.  He is the one man who makes bedazzled (ph) tank tops and short shorts look good.  He has truly made fitness fabulous.  You know who we‘re talking about, but his latest videos are “Super Toning,” “Totally Toting,” and my personally favorite, “Super Sweating Party off the Pounds.”  He‘s also the host of a Sirius radio show, “Lighten Up.”  He is, of course, the legendary Richard Simmons, joining us in the studio. 

SIMMONS:  Oh my God!  It‘s time for me to meet Tucker!

Hi, how are you.

CARLSON:  It‘s great to see you.  I‘m fabulous. 

SIMMONS:  Nice to see you. 

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS:  I know that you tie your own bow ties. 

CARLSON:  Yes, I do.

SIMMONS:  Now, a lot of people would say they‘re clipon. 

CARLSON:  No.

SIMMONS:  But I saw it.

CARLSON:  Only the Nation of Islam uses clipons.  I tie my own.

SIMMONS:  Oh, that‘s a nice little tidbit. 

CARLSON:  Richard, we‘ve spent some time together today, and I‘ve been amazed, as I have before, by your energy.  Where do you get it?  Jolt Cola? 

SIMMONS:  No, I don‘t drink colas.  I get it because I love what I do.  At a very early age, I had a passion for making people laugh and helping people.  And those are the only two things I‘ve really ever wanted to do in my life, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  What about sing?  You‘re a terrific singer.

SIMMONS:  Well, I use anything that I can to inspire people and make them laugh.  You know, a lot of overweight people aren‘t laughing.  You‘d think that they‘re jolly, but they‘re not.  Over 300,000 Americans died last year of obesity-related diseases.  This is serious, this is serious business.  I put on the tank tops, I put on the little old ‘80s dolphin shorts, I get my music together...

CARLSON:  You‘re the only one keeping the faith with the dolphin shorts, by the way. 

SIMMONS:  Well, you know, you can get them on eBay.  I got 80 pair this year for Christmas.  I‘ll always have them, always.

CARLSON:  (INAUDIBLE) 80 pairs of dolphin running shorts? 

SIMMONS:  Fans go to eBay, and they buy these for me.  Don‘t people send you bow ties?

CARLSON:  Of course they do.  

SIMMONS:  Hi, I‘m Richard Simmons.  If you have a bow tie and you really don‘t like it, or you love it, send it here to THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON, and he‘ll be wearing it on the air.  And also, you‘ll be thanking people for the tie. 

CARLSON:  Of course I will.  We take all gifts here on THE SITUATION.

So what do you say to really heavy people?  They love you.  I mean, I always see these shows where they meet you and they‘re crying.  How can you relate so well to the overweight? 

SIMMONS:  I was 200 pounds in the eighth grade.  I graduated high school at 268 pounds, 48-inch waistline.  I‘m a compulsive eater from the South.  I love food, and food was my whole life.  If you‘ve been in New Orleans, and you have, you know how important the comfort and love you get from food. 

But I didn‘t want to live that way.  And I tried all kinds of ways to lose weight -- 30 laxatives a day, starving, throwing up.  Anything you can imagine, I did.  And I got down to 119 pounds and almost died.  And I said, this is not the way to do it.  I‘m going to have to do it the right way. 

I gained weight because I didn‘t exercise, and I didn‘t watch what I was eating.  I am going to have to reverse that. 

So I did it for myself.  And then 36 years ago, I opened up a little exercise studio in Beverly Hills called Slimmons (ph).  It‘s a place for overweight, out-of-shape people who come in and feel good about themselves.  And there I got on “General Hospital,” then I got “The Richard Simmons Show.”  Now I travel 250 days a year, big towns, small towns, to touch people‘s lives and give them hope. 

CARLSON:  How much exercise do you every day?  Like when you‘re on the road 250 days a year.  Are you in your hotel room sweating to the oldies?

SIMMONS:  An hour and 15 minutes.  I do the stairs, I do my aerobics, you know.  I do whatever I need to fit into these little shorts.  I mean, you know, they are only one size, and so I really watch myself. 

But I can‘t preach to people if I‘m not doing it the right way.  You know?  I have this great show on Sirius Satellite Radio called “Lighten Up.”  And I read a letter, dear Richard, my husband left me, I‘m 300 pounds, I have two kids to raise, I have no self-esteem.  I pick up the phone and I call that person.  And then I have someone who‘s lost 100 pounds.  I‘ll bring them on the radio. 

It‘s all about help.  The government‘s not going to do this.  You know, you do a lot of political stories.  The government is never going to help you.

CARLSON:  The government is never going to do it. 

SIMMONS:  Never do it.  And the schools are never going to do it.  It‘s up to families, grassroots communities.  And that‘s why I go from city to city, teaching classes 250 days a year, to let people know there is hope.  And there is a right way of doing it.  Not the surgeries, not the pills, all those things on infomercials, but to do it the correct way.  Watch your portions from all the six food groups that God made—I didn‘t make them.  Try to move as much as you can every day.  And for goodness sakes, know your self-worth.

CARLSON:  So you are like essentially a libertarian fitness guy.  Now, I got to ask you about something that I read on TheSmokingGun.  I remember it happened a couple of years, you‘re at an airport in Phoenix, I think of you as this—you know, I don‘t—you know, I just didn‘t think of you this way.  And this man mocks you and insults you, and you just slapped him down. 

SIMMONS:  It didn‘t really happen that way. 

CARLSON:  No? 

SIMMONS:  No. 

CARLSON:  I was impressed.

SIMMONS:  First of all he was—no, I‘m not a violent person.  But you can‘t make fun of fat people in front of me.  This is one area that is very, very important to me.  You cannot put fat people down in front of me.  And I really never slapped that man.  And you know, he could have killed me.  He was like a wrestler or something.  Did you know he was a wrestler?

CARLSON:  Yeah.  You didn‘t hit him at all?  I am kind of disappointed.

SIMMONS:  You know, I said stop talking about the overweight people.  Stop it.  You don‘t know what you‘re talking about.  Respect everyone.  And we live in a world, Tucker, where everyone makes fun of overweight people. 

CARLSON:  I agree with that.

SIMMONS:  You can‘t make fun of this group anymore, you can‘t make fun of that group anymore, but we still have the overweight and the obese child who goes to school.  We still have the overweight woman who goes to work and people say remarks. 

You know, I work with a lot of people, 400, 500, 800, 1000 pounds.  I work with the rehab center here in Rockaway, New York.  And there is hope for everybody.  If they truly love themselves, know their worth, and go on an intelligent program—that‘s why I keep doing these videos.  You know, I keep...

CARLSON:  “Totally Toning?” 

SIMMONS:  I do toning videos.  I do aerobic videos.  I do great music.  And in these videos are people that have lost 100, 150, 80 pounds, and they‘re working out and they‘re making the commitment to do that. 

CARLSON:  Amen.  Richard Simmons, good for you. Thank you for joining us. 

SIMMONS:  Thank you, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  It was great to see you. 

Still ahead on THE SITUATION, you won‘t believe what set off this riot today.  Here‘s a hint, Micky Mouse was involved.  There is an explanation.  It‘s lying, of course, on “The Cutting Room Floor,” next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Time for “The Cutting Room Floor.”  Willie Geist has ceased sweating to the oldies long enough to bring it to us. 

WILLIE GEIST, THE SITUATION PRODUCER:  You have to admire a guy who still wears the tank top and short shorts in mid-February, early February. 

CARLSON:  Totally impressive, and I think he didn‘t even put a coat on as he walked out to his...

GEIST:  No.  And we do have to say about Richard Simmons, when he came in, he shook every member of our staff‘s hand, autographed the wall, was singing show tunes.  He lit up the office.  That man is a life force. 

CARLSON:  Actually, I liked Richard Simmons more than almost anybody I‘ve interviewed in a long time.

GEIST:  He‘s the best.

CARLSON:  And I‘m not mocking him, actually.

The oddsmakers in Vegas have their opinions about who is going to win the Sunday‘s Super Bowl.  I‘ll be taking my cues from Rasha (ph), an aging elephant at the Fort Worth, Texas zoo.  Rasha (ph) has been making Super Bowl predictions for a long time.  This year, she likes the Seahawks over the Steelers.  Rasha‘s (ph) last correct pick came three years ago, when she chose the Buccaneers to win it all. 

GEIST:  So not terribly accurate.

CARLSON:  No, not terribly.

GEIST:  Not terribly scientific, but she is probably as close as anybody else. 

Now, I have to ask you, this time last week, you made what I thought was a very bold pick. 

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  You chose the Colts, despite the fact they are not playing the Super Bowl...

CARLSON:  Yes, I did.

GEIST:  ... to win the Super Bowl. 

CARLSON:  You know why, Willie?  You know why?  Richard Simmons puts it best: Miracles can happen. 

GEIST:  So you stand by your pick?  You heard it here, the Colts.

CARLSON:  The Colts, the Baltimore Colts. 

GEIST:  Or the Indianapolis Colts. 

CARLSON:  It only took Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi five days to back off his promise not to have sexual intercourse until Italy‘s April 9th election.  Berlusconi now says the whole thing was a joke, and he has no plans to abstain.  On Sunday, an Italian newspaper reported Berlusconi had made the no-sex vow at a campaign rally. 

GEIST:  (INAUDIBLE).  Some people will look at this as a broken campaign promise, but he‘s a playboy with a beautiful actress wife who went five days without having sex.  That sounds like restraint to me. 

CARLSON:  Totally.  Plus, the Italians, they don‘t have a lot, let‘s be honest.  The empire is gone.  But they pride themselves on their...

GEIST:  He‘s got my vote.

CARLSON:  ... activities.  Oh, totally.  I love...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON:  Nothing creates hostility and violent behavior like a trip to Disneyland.  There was a near riot at the Hong Kong Disneyland today when dozens of people were shut out of the packed theme park.  Frustrated visitors tried to climb and pass their children over the locked gate.  People from all over China have flocked to the sold out Disneyland for Chinese new year vacation.

GEIST:  All right, Tucker, clearly—look at those people. 

CARLSON:  I‘m sorry to laugh.  That‘s so sick. 

GEIST:  Disneyland is still new in Hong Kong.  Give them 15 years, they‘ll be like us, trying to climb over the gate to get out of there. 

CARLSON:  That‘s exactly...

(CROSSTALK)

GEIST:  You have to get out.

CARLSON:  You‘d be hard pressed to find a dumber person in the whole United States, all 300 million of us, than the guy in this next story.  Boyd Tippett (ph) has called the Utah police on Monday to report that his home had been burglarized.  The only thing stolen, he said, a quarter pound of marijuana.  Police recovered the pot at another home and asked Tippett to claim it.  He promptly reported to the station to pick up his weed.  He was promptly arrested.  

GEIST:  Once again, kids, the damaging effects of prolonged marijuana use on display.  For the whole world to see.  Come on, dude.  The evidence room is not a lost and found.  You don‘t go down to pick up your weed or your murder weapons or anything of the sort.  Just let it lie. 

CARLSON:  I love that.  It almost makes it too easy for the police.  I mean, actually, I think they ought to let him—give him a pass.  It used to be, truly, in medieval times, if the hangman‘s rope broke, the condemned man walked free.  OK? 

GEIST:  Yes.  But we need this guy off the streets. 

CARLSON:  No, we don‘t. 

GEIST:  For a multitude of reasons. 

CARLSON:  He can harm no one.  He is the bank robber who writes the ransom note on his own deposit slip.  He is a guy who just can‘t hurt society. 

GEIST:  We should celebrate him. 

CARLSON:  Yes, we should.

GEIST:  (INAUDIBLE) Tucker.

CARLSON:  Willie Geist.  Thank you. 

GEIST:  See you.

CARLSON:  That‘s THE SITUATION for tonight.  Richard Simmons has gone home, so we‘re ending.  Thank you for watching.  See you back on Monday.  Up next, Keith.  Have a great weekend.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

Copy: Content and programming copyright 2006 NBC.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2006 Voxant, Inc.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon NBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.

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