Guests: Robin Leach, Ruth Hilton, Parry Aftab, Marc Klaas, Stacey Honowitz, Mark Foley
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: And right now in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, protecting our kids. A new “Dateline” investigation uncovers shocking evidence of adult sex predators prowling on the Internet for children. You have seen these “Dateline” specials before, but, this time, there‘s a twist. The police are there, and they nail them.
But we ask, what laws need to be changed to keep predators behind bars? Parents, this is must viewing. And we‘re going to tell you what you have to do, what you have to do now to keep your kids safe. It‘s a shocking report that; you are not going to want to miss it.
Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, no passport required, only common sense allowed.
ANNOUNCER: From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all. Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.
Hey, thanks so much for being with me tonight. Really appreciate.
Now, we‘re going to spend most of the hour on this incredible report that shows how sexual predators are using the Internet as a weapon against your kids. Now, we‘re going to be talking live to “Dateline” correspondent Chris Hansen. And we have just got the most unbelievable tape. It‘s a sting like you have never seen before.
And there‘s also going to be a stunning conclusion in the investigation into the mystery of Princess Diana‘s death. The respected former London police chief is dropping hints of a major bombshell that could come and could prove that British agents may have been involved in the death of Princess Diana. You heard right.
Then, caught on tape, wait until you see what this character is up to. And he‘s a government servant. And, yes, it looks like he‘s lifting money from a Hurricane Katrina relief fund. We will tell you all about it. He‘s tonight‘s “Joe‘s Schmoe.”
But first, “Dateline NBC”‘s shocking investigation into grown men trolling the Internet to have sex with your children. “Dateline” set up this home in Southern California with hidden cameras, then joined up with an Internet watchdog group Perverted Justice over a three-day period.
And they saw men of all ages showing up at the house thinking they were about to meet a kid they had chatted with online. But what they found were “Dateline” cameras.
CHRIS HANSEN, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Perverted Justice decoys tell the adults they are home alone and sometimes they say they are interested in sex. A few pretend they are eager to meet.
This decoy, screen-named bubblebeth2005, has a picture in her profile of a “Dateline” staffer, taken when she was 12. There‘s no mistaking this is a child. Here‘s a man who has seen her picture and her age, but wastes no time before talking dirty. He‘s “Kinky Man in Corona.” He says he‘s 40 and shows bubblebeth a penis of a penis on his profile.
His chat, along with the other chats sent to our decoys, gets too graphic and disgusting to show on TV. Usually, the men like to get very specific about what they want to do sexually. And here he is, “Kinky Man in Corona” walking, looking to meet bubblebeth face to face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me finish brushing my teeth real fast. I will be right out. OK?
WALTER EDWARD BABST, 43 YEARS OLD: OK.
HANSEN: We did background research on him and learned he‘s really 43-year-old Walter Edward Babst, a married man with children.
BABST: Am I under arrest?
HANSEN (on camera): Have a seat.
(voice-over): Remember, he has no idea he‘s being recorded by our hidden cameras.
HANSEN (on camera): What are you doing here?
BABST: Getting my ass kicked.
HANSEN: Getting your ass kicked?
BABST: I knew it. I knew I should—I knew it was a setup.
HANSEN: No, I need you to sit down, please.
BABST: I need you to just arrest me, take me to jail, and execute me.
HANSEN: I need to talk to you first.
BABST: Because I—you know what? I didn‘t bring anything. I didn‘t want to do anything.
HANSEN: Well, why did you come here, though? Help me to understand.
BABST: Because I‘m a sick son of a bitch. I have never done it before. I talk about it online all the time. I have never done anything with anybody, except my wife, ever.
HANSEN: What are you doing here on a Saturday morning, coming into a house where you believe a 12 or 13-year-old kid is home alone with no parents here? Do you have kids?
BABST: Yes, I do.
HANSEN: Well, how would you feel if some guy in his 40s...
HANSEN: ... walked into your house trying to hook up with your kids?
BABST: I would feel pissed.
HANSEN (voice-over): And you will never guess what this man does for a living.
BABST: I‘m in education.
HANSEN (on camera): You are in education?
HANSEN: A teacher?
HANSEN: What grade do you teach?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High school.
HANSEN: High school?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN (voice-over): This next man says he‘s here to sell a house. He‘s 65-year-old Charles Harding (ph), screen-named Hard Chuck One (ph), here to meet this 13-year-old boy. Again, the decoy used an old photo given to him by “Dateline.”
Based on his reaction...
(on camera): Hey, how are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HANSEN (voice-over): ... I‘m about the last person that he‘s expecting to see.
(on camera): What you up to today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing. Call, talked to a gentleman. I have a place that I have for sale. So...
HANSEN: Are you are selling a house? I see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he was interested.
HANSEN: Well, here‘s what doesn‘t make sense about that. How is a 13-year-old going to afford to buy your home?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I didn‘t know how old he was. I didn‘t ask
stop to ask his age.
HANSEN: Well, Chuck, the only problem with that story is, is that I have the transcripts of your conversation with Luke.
“What are you looking for? I could be your grandpa, into young boys your age, love to cuddle with them, caress their body, work my”—and it goes on from there.
(voice-over): Finally, he decides to tell the truth. And he actually admits that he might have had sex with a boy.
(on camera): But if he would have consented to having sex, what would have happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be very hesitant at first. If he continued, then possibly we would have had it.
HANSEN: Possibly, you would have had sex with a 13-year-old boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. If, you know, I felt uncomfortable and I felt that he was not fit or anything, I would have walked away.
HANSEN: Not fit? How can a 13-year-old boy be fit to have sex with a 65-year-old man? Don‘t you see an issue there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I see nothing wrong with cuddling and caressing.
HANSEN (voice-over): Here comes the man who calls himself Six Pack Socali (ph). He‘s 26-year-old Christopher Irvin (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you remember to bring condoms?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I am going to wash my hands, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to wash my hands. Cool?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
HANSEN (on camera): Paper towels right over here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, thanks.
HANSEN (voice-over): He‘s here after making plans for sex with a 13-year-old girl named Kelly (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That‘s way watered down.
HANSEN (on camera): Way watered down.
(voice-over): He‘s brought along Bacardi rum.
(on camera): You came to see Kelly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: And how old is Kelly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: And how old is Kelly?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kelly is way too young for me.
HANSEN: Way too young for you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: Then why did you come here, Chris?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came here to tell her that, actually.
HANSEN: To tell her that she was way too young?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, I did, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN (voice-over): That‘s what he says now. But when he was online, Six Pack Socali (ph) not only had a sexually disgusting chat. He turned on his Web cam and sent photos of himself naked, closeups we can‘t show you.
HANSEN (on camera): Did you transmit this photograph?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my. I sent—I didn‘t know I sent that one.
HANSEN: You didn‘t know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, actually, yes, I did. But—wow. I wasn‘t thinking of...
HANSEN: To a 13-year-old girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m sorry. You‘re right. You are right. I know. I wasn‘t thinking. And that‘s what—even coming down here. I mean, look at me. I didn‘t even take a shower. If I was going to do something like that, I would have taken a shower. That‘s the first thing you do. I mean, look at me. I‘m so dirty. Like...
HANSEN: I know. Well, I will tell you what‘s dirty is, this conversation you had.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what? Yes, I know.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, every one of these men you saw pleaded not guilty to an assortment of charges.
And I want to bring in a man who confronted these predators face to face, “Dateline” correspondent Chris Hansen.
Chris, I got to tell you, we have been around the block now three times now on these stings over the past couple months. And every time I see one of your reports, I‘m just shocked. It just keeps shocking me. What are you learning over the course of these investigations and these stings that American parents need to know?
HANSEN: Well, one of the things that we‘re learning, Joe, is that this is a very pervasive problem.
There are lots of guys out there like this who are on the Internet looking to meet underage kids. We had a guy for instance who actually showed up, saw police activity, called, talked to the decoy, who, said, oh, don‘t worry about it. It was just a drug bust next door. Shows up. Comes into the house. It turns out that not only had he been busted by Perverted Justice before, and posted. He had seen our last story and still came into the house anyway.
SCARBOROUGH: Chris, can these people just not help themselves? Are they that sick? Are they that addicted to having sex with little kids that they are willing to risk it all just for the thrill of it?
HANSEN: Well, I‘m not a psychotherapist, but we did talk to a number of people. And we posed that very question, Joe.
And one expert told us, one time, look, these guys don‘t wake up in the morning and say, OK, I‘m going to ruin my life today. But they just get going on the Internet. And some people have addictions and compulsions that they clearly cannot control. Are some people sick? Probably.
Are some people just bad and opportunists? I think there‘s a little bit of that, too. There‘s no one single profile. And, in terms of who these guys are, as you have seen, they come from all walks of life. We‘re talking about a federal agent from Homeland Security. We‘re talking about a teacher, as you saw on the tape piece just moments ago.
There was a lawyer, a businessman. I mean, just about everybody you can think of got caught up in this thing.
SCARBOROUGH: And, of course, rabbis, an educator now, a 25-year-old kid who doesn‘t bathe regularly. What are the common denominators that you see between all these predators that come into these homes?
HANSEN: Well, the common denominator is that virtually every one of these guys could be sitting next to you on a train, or on a bus, or standing in line on a Saturday morning at Home Depot, and you wouldn‘t give it a second look.
They look like regular run-of-the-mill guys. What they have in common is this compulsion and addiction. And these people get on the Internet. And it‘s a 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week thing. And it may start with a porn site. It may start with a racy conversation.
And, at some point, the only way they can satisfy themselves is to actually meet up. And, you know, you have seen me read the transcripts of the chat logs back to these guys. I mean, the parts that we can‘t show you, I mean, they are almost unbelievable, how explicit they are. There‘s no mistaking what the vast majority of these guys have in mind.
SCARBOROUGH: And I will tell you what, Chris, speaking of you reading those transcripts, you have the presence of Perry Mason in a closing argument in a courtroom.
SCARBOROUGH: I just sit there, and, usually, I have got to cover my eyes, because it‘s so painful.
You seem to be in such total control in these situations that would make most of us nervous. Do you ever get nervous in there that somebody is going to pull out a gun and shoot you? I know you have got—I know you are protected, but, at the same time, you just don‘t know what‘s going on. Have you ever been scared that one of these guys may come at you with a knife or a gun?
HANSEN: Well, we take a number of precautions.
And we have security on site, Joe. But, yes, you don‘t know what‘s coming. And we try to research the background as best we can of these guys before coming in. I have obviously gone through the chat log extensively, so I have a good feel for the guy who is coming in. It‘s interesting, though. Most of these guys who do sit down, it seems to me that they want to tell their story.
They either at first want to come up with an excuse to justify their presence. Some people know that they have got a problem. And it seems like they are almost relieved to get it off their chest, to talk about it. And, on the other side, I‘m genuinely curious as to what makes these guys tick. So, I‘m not there to berate them.
In fact, it‘s easy to feel sorry for some of these guys, as funny as that may sound. I mean, I don‘t take any glee confronting these guys. But the combination of all those things together, you know, the majority of the time, they sit down and they talk to me.
SCARBOROUGH: And that‘s the most unbelievable part. You would think most of them would just turn around and run out.
Chris, I want to thank you for being on tonight. But, more importantly, I want to thank you for the valuable service that you provided to parents all across the country, because, boy, again, as a guy that‘s got three kids himself, you open my eyes to it every single time you come on, that this is just such a dangerous, dangerous world that we live in. And we have got to protect our kids.
So, thanks so much...
HANSEN: My pleasure.
SCARBOROUGH: ... for your service to us, and thanks for being on the show tonight.
HANSEN: Any time, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: All right.
Now, we have got a twist this time. Chris, again, like I said before, Chris has been on the show talking about the predators. But this time, the would-be predators come in, they walk into a trap. But they are about to find out that things are only going to get worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANSEN: ... is that I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC.” And we‘re doing a story on computer predators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: See what happens when these men realize the cameras are rolling and the police are waiting outside.
Plus, our panel of experts is going to be here to talk about what parents have to know to protect their kids.
Stick around. We will be right back.
SCARBOROUGH: Sex predators busted because of “NBC Dateline”‘s Chris Hansen. We are going to show you shocking video coming up next—when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.
Get in the car!
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, welcome back.
More than 50 men showed up at a California house, apparently looking for sex with a kid. What they found where “Dateline” cameras. And take a look at their reactions when they find out that they have been caught on tape and busted.
HANSEN: Unlike previous investigations, in which nearly every potential sex predator who came to our house, sat down for an interview, this time around, a lot of men appeared to get spooked.
(on camera): Why don‘t you have a seat here, sir?
(voice-over): Take this man. First, Del, the decoy from Perverted Justice, pretending to be a 13-year-old boy, coaxes him into the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, come here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you want to be the cop or the robber?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I don‘t care.
HANSEN: But as soon as I walk out.
(on camera): How you doing?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, come here. Sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s running.
HANSEN (voice-over): He makes a run for it.
So does this man.
(on camera): Good morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey. How are you?
HANSEN: Please have a seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
HANSEN: No? No?
(voice-over): Some potential sex predators are spooked even before I have a chance to confront them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got to finish brushing my teeth. Can‘t you just hang out at the counter for a second?
HANSEN: None of these men has any idea they were just recorded on hidden cameras by “Dateline,” but the rest of them are about to find out. First, the teacher who wanted to get naked and have sex with a 12-year-old.
(on camera): There‘s one thing you got to know first, is that I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC” and we‘re doing a story on computer predators.
(voice-over): The actor who made plans online for sex in the shower with somebody he thought was 13.
(on camera): So, you have been in movies? You have been on television. Well, you are about to get another role, because I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC” and we‘re doing a story on computer predators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made a mistake, a huge mistake.
HANSEN (voice-over): The songwriter who told a decoy posing as a 13-year-old virgin that they should try oral sex first.
(on camera): There‘s nothing I can do to make you stay here. But if there‘s anything else you would like to say, we would to hear it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m—I‘m—I‘m sorry.
HANSEN: I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC” and we‘re doing a story on computer predators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you better—I will shove that camera down his throat.
HANSEN: I don‘t think you are going to want to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is that?
HANSEN: I don‘t think you will want to do it.
Now, we can‘t keep you here. If you want to say anything else to us, we would love to hear it. You are free to leave, obviously, if you want to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But can I talk to you outside?
HANSEN: Oh, I can‘t have the cameras turned off at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then I would like to say that pretty much I think you have it all wrong. But your point is well taken.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty weird. Cut.
HANSEN: Well, Robert, I have got to tell you something. I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC” and we‘re doing a story on computer predators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what does this mean? I‘m going to be on “Dateline” or what?
HANSEN (voice-over): As Lions (ph) leaves, he‘s arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s down this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Throw them down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Geez.
HANSEN: And now that the police are involved, he decides he‘s said enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me what‘s going on today? What are you coming over to the house for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, I think I really—talk to an attorney on this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HANSEN: And remember those two men who admitted they watched “Dateline”?
(on camera): Have you ever seen our stories on computer predators?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: This is one of them. Now, if there‘s anything else you would like to say for yourself...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. That‘s it.
HANSEN: Then, obviously, you are free to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
HANSEN (voice-over): One of them, South Bay Guy 310 (ph), not only saw “Dateline”‘s earlier investigation. He was also caught online before by Perverted Justice. And, unbelievably, he drove by our house while detectives were still arresting another man. And he came in anyway.
(on camera): Do you ever watch “Dateline NBC”?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have seen that episode, actually. And that‘s why I just—I don‘t prefer to be on camera.
HANSEN: I‘m Chris Hansen. You saw the earlier episode?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did.
HANSEN: So, let me get this straight. You saw our earlier story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
HANSEN: You drove by this house and saw police out front.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: Yet, you walked in here anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m bored, like I told you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: Whatever you would like to say, we would love to hear it, but, obviously, we can‘t keep you here. And you‘re free to go whenever you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what I‘m going to tell you is, is that I‘m never going to do this again, on everything I love in life. I‘m going to go home. I‘m going to get rid of my computer.
HANSEN: But you came here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that. And that‘s wrong.
HANSEN: You walked in the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.
HANSEN: You talked to the girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn‘t—well, I don‘t—oh, OK. I don‘t know what I can—what would have happened.
HANSEN: But you got to want something to risk coming in here after seeing police out front.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I just thought she might have been (INAUDIBLE) about something next door. I was like, eh. I don‘t know. Maybe it‘s—honestly, I don‘t know. Now, when I walk out of here, am I going to be arrested?
HANSEN: That‘s not up to me.
(voice-over): Not me, but the Riverside County Sheriff‘s Department here in Southern California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I ask you what‘s going to happen to me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you are under arrest.
SCARBOROUGH: Let‘s go right to our panel of experts, Congressman Mark Foley from Florida. We have also got sex crimes prosecutor Stacey Honowitz, and Marc Klaas of the Polly Klaas Foundation.
Stacey, let me start with you.
What can these predators, alleged predators, be arrested for?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Well, Joe, they can be arrested for solicitation to commit sex with an underage minor via the Internet, via electronic communications, because what you didn‘t hear in most of these transactions or these conversations, because it is too sectionally explicit to put on television, is the conversations between the predators and the alleged victim, it becomes very sexual. It becomes sexually explicit.
And, basically, a time and a date is made up to meet, and that‘s why you are able to capture those people coming into the house at various times. They are not coming to the house to tutor these kids. They‘re coming to the house to engage in a sexual act. So, it‘s solicitation. It‘s enticing, encouraging a minor to commit sex via the Internet.
SCARBOROUGH: Stacey, you obviously work putting these people away all the time. Can you help us get into the minds of these predators, who have actually watched these “Dateline” specials before, have been busted by Perverted Justice, drive by, and see police busting other people, but can‘t stop themselves from going in the house, trying to have sex with a kid, even though they know they are risking everything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think Chris said it in your first piece.
He was correct.
There‘s no way of definitely profiling these people. Some of them have a compulsion. They are sick. Some of them are opportunists. They don‘t care that the police are involved. They watch these shows. They are supposed to be off the computer. Some of them are on probation from a previous case and they are told they can‘t be on the computer. And they still go back on it.
So, we will never know what‘s inside their head. What we need to do is develop longer sentences, more statutes, so that these guys spend time in prison, so they don‘t have the opportunity to get back on the Internet and try to solicit a child.
SCARBOROUGH: Unlike in Vermont, where judges sentence people to 60 days for having sex and raping a 6-year-old girl until she‘s 10.
Congressman Foley, let me bring you in here.
It seems to me we can pass laws that stop predators from sending porn in the mail, U.S. mail. Why can‘t we pass laws in Washington, D.C., and in state capitals to stop this type of smut going into e-mails to kids?
REP. MARK FOLEY ®, FLORIDA: Well, Joe, that‘s one of the big problems.
The courts are ruling, repeatedly, that this is a First Amendment issue. We have been able successfully to stop Internet pornography or pornography by the mails. We have been able to stop it from a number of venues.
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, hold on.
Hey, Mark, are you telling me that courts in this country are saying, it‘s a pervert‘s right to send an e-mail to a 14-year-old kid and try to pick that kid up for sex? That‘s protected by our Constitution?
That‘s why our men and women have died over the past 220 years, to protect perverts‘ rights to profile 14-year-old kids?
FOLEY: As frightening as that seems, we have been foiled, if you will, by the courts repeatedly by using the First Amendment and people‘s rights to have free speech.
I agree with you 100 percent. That‘s why we have tried to toughen the laws. That‘s why we tried to create a more difficult time for predators to roam free. But the “Dateline” piece has probably done more than any law we can create. Hopefully more people will be forewarned. More parents will be taking advantage of the chance to talk to their kids, instructing them about the dangers of the Internet.
And, certainly, more people that have seen this segment that may be thinking about interacting with a child may go ahead and get mental health counseling.
SCARBOROUGH: Mark, let me ask you, do you think there are any laws that we can pass to fix this problem? Or is this really more personal than legislative?
FOLEY: Well, I think laws have to be passed.
Your earlier guest was talking about charges like solicitation, contributing to the delinquency of a minor. There should be a multitude of offenses charged, including trespassing. A number of things can be added, we hope, to the sentences of those that go on to these locations. And, then, hopefully, if you make it tough enough, they then will kind of spread the message that this is not a smart thing to do.
But it does confound reasonable people that the guy on your show would watch this taking place and subsequently then enter the house himself. It‘s just bizarre, it‘s absurd, and yet it‘s regrettably dangerous for the kids at home.
SCARBOROUGH: Just can‘t help themselves.
HONOWITZ: They never think they are going to get caught. That‘s also the problem.
SCARBOROUGH: Marc, let me ask you, do you think more laws—Marc Klaas, do you think more laws are going to fix this problem or do you think it has more to do with parents stepping up and being responsible with their children in computer usage?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I don‘t think there‘s any single piece of legislation or any single solution to this. I think part of it certainly is Mr. Foley‘s child safety act that has been languishing in the U.S. Senate for the past six months.
SCARBOROUGH: Why won‘t the Senate act on that, Marc?
SCARBOROUGH: Marc Klaas, why won‘t the Senate do it?
KLAAS: I think Mr. Foley would be better qualified to answer that.
But there are a couple of poison pill clauses that exist in that bill that supposedly are keeping the Senate from acting. I suggest they pass a bill, put it in the conference committee, and reconcile it that way. And in fact, I will be going to Washington, D.C., very soon to encourage them to do that.
But there‘s more. I think if you were to take this “Dateline” piece and turn it into a regular program, where Perverted Justice and Chris Hansen or somebody else were to go from city to city to city on a weekly basis, you would create a real deterrent effect that would put some fear into the minds of these perverts. You could even call it “Perv Watch,” if you wanted to.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, hey, why don‘t you all stay with us? We got to go to a break.
Stacey, we will be back with you. Marc Klaas, also back with you.
Congressman Mark Foley, as always, thank you for being with us. And thank you for the great work that you do up on the Hill. We want to get you on the show in couple of nights and start putting pressure on the Senate, because I‘ll tell you what. They need to support your bill.
SCARBOROUGH: Our U.S. senators need to support Mark Foley‘s bill. We are going to give you the phone number later on the show to call them.
We have got a lot more coming up, more arrests, more of the shocking “Dateline” special, when we come back in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.
SCARBOROUGH: A British investigation into the death of Princess Diana may actually turn the focus of Diana‘s death towards the British secret service? Could it that real-life James Bonds were responsible for her death? We will give you the very latest on that story and more of our “Dateline” investigation in a minute.
But, first, here‘s the latest news that you and your family need to know.
SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back.
More of that incredible “Dateline NBC” hidden camera investigation now. This time, though, “Dateline” brought the cops along with them to help bust these perverts on the spot.
HANSEN (voice-over): Unlike our previous hidden camera operations, where, after leaving the house, some men were able to make a run for it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around. Put your hands behind your back.
HANSEN: ... this time, things will be different.
(on camera): How you doing?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, come here. Sir.
(voice-over): This time, law enforcement will be waiting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s actually going toward Schleissman (ph) now, on Riverbend (ph).
HANSEN: Sergeant Chad Bianco and a Perverted Justice volunteer screen-named Frag devised a plan.
SERGEANT CHAD BIANCO, RIVERSIDE COUNTY SHERIFF‘S DEPARTMENT: We were in telephone contact and two-way radio contact with Perverted-Justice and they would let us know when someone was getting close.
HANSEN: The sergeant and his men, who are staked out in a mobile home parked in the driveway next door, are ready and waiting for suspects to show up at the house in an attempt to molest a child.
The detectives will watch as men enter our house and then wait for Frag‘s signal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Cuff him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down on the step and don‘t move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground. Get up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around.
HANSEN: The cuffs will go on these potential predators because
Perverted Justice has already turned over important evidence to detectives
chat logs filled with sexually graphic material, men planning sex acts with a 12- or 13-year-old.
Sending those messages alone may only be a misdemeanor in California. But if the men show up at the house, there‘s no mistaking their intent to have sex with someone under the age of 14 -- and that‘s a felony, says Deputy District Attorney Michelle Paradise.
MICHELLE PARADISE, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Not just the fantasy, because that‘s what‘s happening on the Internet. They‘re having their fantasies. They‘re satisfying their—their urges for foreplay or whatever. They actually have to get them to follow through and show that there is an intent and make some proactive effort to meet that child.
HANSEN: Our first two stings averaged 18 men over three days. Amazingly, here in Southern California, on the first day alone, 14 men arrive for what they think will be a possible meeting for sex with a 12-or 13-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. You there?
HANSEN: On the second day, it gets so busy, we actually have three men showing up within minutes of each other. Remember, unlike our previous investigations, this time, detectives from the Riverside County Sheriff‘s Department are waiting outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One or two people.
HANSEN: A Perverted Justice volunteer alerts the detectives about the pileup. They are staked out in the mobile home next door.
At one point, the crowd of potential predators gets so large, Sergeant Chad Bianco, who has a total of 15 people working for him, runs out of manpower.
BIANCO: I had no one available. We had—all of my investigators were dealing with people that we had arrested. And there was—you still had people coming to the house.
HANSEN: The sergeant is forced to put suspects in the mobile home until backup arrives. That way, he can go out and arrest more. The handcuffed men are told to keep quiet.
Because this is the first time law enforcement has stepped in and arrested the men right after they left the sting house, this is the first time we get to see all of the men‘s personal belongings, which leaves little doubt as to their intent.
Guess what the detectives found on this man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this? Some pills?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of pills?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m embarrassed to say, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m embarrassed to say, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, tell me what kind of pills we‘re talking about. Are those Viagra?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: He breaks down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things will go a lot easier and a lot smoother if you calm down.
HANSEN: Remember, he was not so upset when he was online trying to set up a sexual rendezvous with someone who said she was 13.
HANSEN: Hyperventilating, getting so upset you can‘t talk, is not going to help anybody, all right? So, just calm down, OK?
The girl is 12 that you‘re talking to.
HANSEN: The cops work from morning until night, booking the suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you work?
HANSEN: Towing their cars, and shipping them off to jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to take you over to the sheriff station, take a picture. We are going to transport you downtown Riverside, where our main corrections facility is.
HANSEN: In all, 50 men were booked on a variety of charges involving crimes against children, ranging from felony charges of attempted lewd acts with a child younger than 14 to sending child pornography.
SCARBOROUGH: With me now to talk about this incredible investigation and what you can to do protect your kids when they go online is Parry Aftab, a privacy attorney and founder of Wired Safety, the world‘s largest charity devoted to Internet safety.
Also, Stacey Honowitz and Marc Klaas.
Stacey, again, I go to you as a person that does this every day, prosecutes every day. It looked like a McDonald‘s drive-through there, which tells me this is a national epidemic, and we‘re just scratching the surface. Kids are getting violated as we speak. What‘s going on?
HONOWITZ: Yes. You could see, these guys are just hungry for sex.
It just doesn‘t stop.
But, Joe, I think the really important issue that you need to get across to your viewers, it‘s not just the predators that need to—not—we don‘t want to talk about the predators. We need parents to show these “Dateline” specials to these kids. I was in my office the other day and there was a woman who said she didn‘t want her child to watch this.
That‘s the wrong attitude. These shows should be shown all in elementary schools, middle schools and high schools. These kids sometimes think it‘s cool to get on the Internet and talk sexually with these guys, not realizing what they are getting into.
SCARBOROUGH: And, Parry, that‘s what you are all about, isn‘t it?
PARRY AFTAB, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WIREDSAFETY.ORG: That is what we‘re all about, Joe. We‘re educating parents. We educate the kids themselves. We assist law enforcement as well.
SCARBOROUGH: So, how do you do that?
AFTAB: Well, we run programs. We actually have a brand new comic with Marvel, with Spider-Man, working on these issues with us.
We run programs for kids in schools. We have our Teen Angels program, who are law enforcement-trained teens that go out and talk to each other. And we teach kids about the realities of this. One our new sites...
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s your site?
AFTAB: One of new sites, katiesplace.org, deals with kids who have actually been victimized by sexual predators, sharing what they learned, so that other kids can learn from that.
SCARBOROUGH: Marc, are you shocked by the extent of this? Because I‘ll tell you what. I certainly am.
KLAAS: Well, of course, I‘m shocked by the extent of it. And I think everybody that watches this is.
These guys have irresistible urges that drives them into the arms of Chris Hansen. It‘s just absolutely unbelievable. And you will see that even Chris Hansen, the more he does this, the more in control he gets of these situations, because the better understanding he has of it.
What they have done is, they have uncovered an epidemic of predation that exists in this country against children. And I think one of the best ways to deal with it—one of the best ways to deal with it is to use this tool that the perverts have called their own for so long, the Internet, use it against them in this very, very effective way.
I think they are doing an absolutely marvelous job. And my hat is off to not only Parry, because she‘s been doing this for years and years.
KLAAS: But certainly to Perverted Justice for the very aggressive approach they are taking towards these very aggressive predators.
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s so important.
And, Parry, thank you for being with us.
Stacey, thank you as always.
Marc, also, thank you.
And I want you all to come back this week. We‘re going to talk about this throughout the week.
And, tomorrow night, we investigate one of the most popular Web sites for teens, a Web site that Parry knows is dangerous, and predators are exploiting it to get to your kids. What you need to know tomorrow night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.
Coming up, though, tonight, still ahead, the investigation into the death of Princess Diana. You are not going to believe the results that may come out. A very well respected British investigator suggesting that British officials may have been involved. Maybe.
That coming up when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.
SCARBOROUGH: Is Princess Diana the victim of foul play?
Well, until now, it seemed almost certain that the British investigation into her death would agree with the French version that found that Diana and her boyfriend, Dodi Al Fayed, died because their driver was drunk.
But now the respected former London police says that what he is finding is—quote—“far more complex than any of us thought.” And he acknowledged that some of the issues raised by Mohamed Al Fayed‘s were—quote—“right to be raised.”
Let me bring in now Ruth Hilton. She‘s a senior editor of “OK!” magazine, and TV host of AOL.com in Las Vegas, the man of “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous,” Robin Leach.
Ruth, let me begin with you.
When she says—when this investigator says that some of the things that Mohamed Al Fayed had originally suggested to be true may have actually, well, had some credence to them, that‘s a bombshell, isn‘t it?
RUTH HILTON, SENIOR EDITOR, “OK!”: It‘s a pretty huge bombshell.
My former newspaper in London, “The Daily Express,” first spoke to Mohamed Al Fayed about his belief and that Diana had been pregnant, for instance, about 4.5 years ago. Mohamed has spent millions of his pounds on investigating the death of his beloved son and Princess Diana, and at the most extreme, the conspiracy theories include the MI-6, which is our secret service, had something to do with it, that Diana was pregnant, and that the royal family had something to do with it.
If any or all of those prove to be true, it would be an absolute sensation that would rock the royal family and the British establish to its core. This is huge stuff.
SCARBOROUGH: And tell us about this Lord Stevens. This is not some sleazy private eye that was hired.
I mean, this guy is, again, sir John Stevens, very well respected. When he lends credence to some of these possible conspiracy theories, that has to have the British establishment shaking, right?
HILTON: John Stevens is known as a man of integrity, a man of great method.
He‘s one of the most respected police captains, police chiefs, in this world, I think. He‘s—he‘s known for a great record. To put him in charge is to give it to someone who is incredibly methodical. So, I mean, normally, he doesn‘t speak at all. This is quite extraordinary, that he says that Mohamed Al Fayed was right to raise some of these issues and that this is more complex.
It seems pretty sensational. And quite why he would go on the record doing that surprises me at this stage in the game, because this investigation has still got many, many more months to run. So, I think it will have people very surprised, because many people had assumed that it was just conspiracy theories going wild. The fact that he sees it as complex is very—actually quite surprising at this stage.
Robin Leach, where does it go from here? Could it possibly lead to the British secret service?
ROBIN LEACH, AOL.COM VEGAS: Well, you know, that‘s always been the conjecture from the day after her death in that crash in 1977 (sic), that the James Bond boys at the secret service, the MI-6, had something to do with this.
You know, the claim was made from day one, in the first of the conspiracy theories, that there was a mysterious light that appeared in the tunnel split-seconds before the crash. And one of the bombshell claims that‘s coming out of Lord Stevens‘ office is that that has now—he now has witnesses who claim that there was a motorcyclist who used some sort of laser-like device to shine into the eyes of the French chauffeur, Henri Paul.
I have always maintained that Princess Diana‘s bodyguard, who was part secret service as well, would never have allowed Princess Diana to ride in a limousine with a driver who was drunk. So, that‘s just pure logic that tells you that.
So, that bombshell has been confirmed out of Lord Stevens‘ office, the former head, by the way, of the Metropolitan Police in London. But the other thing is that, within hours of that interview that he gave on Friday, talking about the things when you were setting up this segment, and this revelation over the weekend of the laser gun, tonight, we‘re learning from London that his offices have been ransacked, the computers have been taken, and the evidence removed.
And you have got to say, this is too coincidental. It comes too quickly on the heels of the claims for it not to be added to the list of conspiracy theories.
SCARBOROUGH: A possible cover-up, Ruth Hilton?
HILTON: It‘s difficult to say. I mean, the timing is absolutely atrocious for the police, for the government, you know, everyone, and the secret service.
But who‘s not to say that it is not raiders who want to take the laptops, get the information and give it—try and sell it off either on the Internet or to newspapers around the world? I mean, the heat on this investigation is white hot now. And it will be.
Diana sells covers and front pages in the U.K. and around the world now as much as she ever did during her life. The woman is considered as a goddess. So, you know, this will continue. And I certainly would expect that someone like Sir John Stevens would have the information on those computers backed up elsewhere.
He‘s leading an incredibly large team on this investigation. So, it would be logical that the information that they have is in many different places, and one would certainly hope so, from here on in.
SCARBOROUGH: All right.
Well, it will be continued. And hopefully you all will come back and shed some more insight to it.
Ruth Hilton and Robin Leach, thank you so much for being with us.
HILTON: Thank you.
SCARBOROUGH: And now I‘m joined by a man who was initially connected with the anarchist group that killed—I kind of screwed that joke up.
SCARBOROUGH: It was such a great segue. It had something to do with you being a suspect in the assassination of James A. Garfield. I totally screwed it up, Tucker.
So, just tell me, what the hell is coming up on your show tonight? I will just sit here and shut up.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON”: Let me first say, I love Robin Leach. Let me second say...
SCARBOROUGH: I love him.
CARLSON: He is so cool.
SCARBOROUGH: He‘s awesome. I love him.
CARLSON: There‘s this huge story going on around the world, as you know, Joe. Cartoons published in European newspapers about Mohammed, the Prophet Mohammed, inspire killings and riotings and burnings and boycotts.
You wouldn‘t know it, though, because the American media, almost to an organization, has refused to show those cartoons. We‘re talking tonight with the managing editor of “The Chicago Tribune,” who will attempt to explain why news is not news, or, in other words, how his paper has been bullied by Islamic extremists. It‘s going to be a great interview.
SCARBOROUGH: It will be a great interview, Tucker. And it‘s a great issue. I‘m actually blogging on it tomorrow.
CARLSON: Good for you.
SCARBOROUGH: I have been so ticked off.
I think the American press has just been absolutely feeble. Nobody is calling these thugs by their real names.
So, hey, Tucker, I can‘t wait to see the interview.
CARLSON: Thanks a lot, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Thanks for being with us.
Make sure you tune into Tucker, “THE SITUATION,” coming up next at 11:00.
And up here next, flyover and “Joe‘s Schmoe.”
We will be right back.
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s time for a flyover of SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. These, of course, are the stories that may have fallen under the mainstream media‘s radar, but, certainly, friends, not ours.
First, Miami, Florida, where a man who had just bought a Ford Escape was apparently unhappy with the purchase. So, he returned it by driving through the front of the dealership and setting the SUV on fire. Good for him. The customer is charged with arson—clearly, one time where the customer is not always right. Actually, bad for him.
And, in Alaska, where you don‘t want to mess with this high school sophomore girl. Michaela Hutchison is a new state wrestling champion. Now, she is the first female in U.S. history to win a high school state wrestling title, going up against male competitors.
Of course, girls always beat me up in high school, but it was not on a wrestling match.
We will be right back with tonight‘s “Joe‘s Schmoe.”
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s time again for tonight‘s “Joe‘s Schmoe.”
Caught on tape at a Dunkin‘ Donuts in Akron, Ohio, our “Joe‘s Schmoe” is City Councilman Gary Bennett apparently helping himself to the tip jar, tips that were going to be donated to Hurricane Katrina victims. Now, Bennett says he thought it was one of those give-a-penny, take-a-penny situation. Wrong. He‘s charged with petty theft.
That‘s why, Councilman Gary Bennett, you‘re tonight‘s “Joe‘s Schmoe.”
That‘s all the time we have for tonight.
Let‘s go now, though, to “THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON.”
Tucker, what is the situation tonight?
CARLSON: The situation, Joe, is busted to the city councilman.
CARLSON: I love that. Busted.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes. What is that about?
CARLSON: I don‘t know. Politicians, Joe.
It‘s good to have you back.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
Transcription Copyright 2006 Voxant, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon MSNBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.> transcript
Transcription Copyright 2006 Voxant, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license
is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may
not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or
internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall
user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may
infringe upon MSNBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary
rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for
purposes of litigation.>