updated 2/22/2006 12:02:17 PM ET 2006-02-22T17:02:17

Guests: Julia Renfro, Beth Holloway Twitty, Bo Dietl, Tim Miller, Larry Garrison, Jayson Ahearn, Craig Bone, Kenneth Lovett, Greg Reeves, Paul Lepiane, Sonya Fitzpatrick

RITA COSBY, HOST:  Good evening, everybody.  Tonight, breaking news in the Natalee Holloway investigation.  You‘re hearing it here first on LIVE AND DIRECT, police in Aruba telling LIVE AND DIRECT about a new tip they believe is so credible, it could blow the case wide open by leading police directly to Natalee‘s body on the island, Aruba police chief, Gerold Dompig, telling us, quote, “We feel that based on this new information, we feel strongly that a body is buried somewhere in those areas.  These new search areas are because of a tip that we received last month,” that, in his words, he says that is “very credible.”

And joining me now live on the phone right now from Aruba is Julia Renfro with the “Aruba Today” newspaper.  Julia, what do you know about where this tip came from?

JULIA RENFRO, “ARUBA TODAY” NEWSPAPER:  Well, what we know about, Rita, is that recently, Gerold Dompig gave an interview with a Dutch newspaper, or at least the Dutch media, that a credible witness came forward, and he feels that this is something to look into.  And this particular person claims to have either witnessed or at least know of some information that there‘s a possibility that Natalee might be buried somewhere in the sand dunes of the California—near the California lighthouse.

COSBY:  Now, you‘re saying near the lighthouse.  How big is that area? 

You know that area very well, Julia.

RENFRO:  Yes, I do.  And actually, quite a bit of mounds of sand, and I would say a matter of about eight football fields or so.  And they have already sectioned off a tremendous amount of this area and closed it off for a suspicious area.  But what they‘re hoping for is some potential new searches to come forward in the near future.

COSBY:  Now, how did this tip come in?  Was it a phone call?  And why are they taking this seriously?  Someone of the sources that we talked to was saying that the person was expressing some remorse.

RENFRO:  Well, that‘s what we understand, as well, based on the interview that Gerold Dompig did, and that this particular person who came forward felt an extreme amount of remorse, that he knew some information and he wanted to bring that forward to the authorities.  He is no longer living, or just maybe never lived on the island.  We‘re not really sure of that.  And he felt that there‘s a strong possibility that Natalee might be buried in the sand dunes north of the lighthouse.

COSBY:  And when did this come in?  Was it a call?  And did they just suddenly pick up the phone and call police?

RENFRO:  That‘s our understanding, yes.  And it was several weeks ago.

COSBY:  And when are they going to start actually searching that area by the lighthouse, at least now that they have the sense of if they believe this person?

RENFRO:  No, but we—they‘ve already started the searching of the area, and they‘ve realized that they need further additional help besides the Aruban authorities.  The Aruban authorities have approximately two or three weeks ago sent 60 to 80, you know, police investigation people out.  And at that point, they‘re hoping for some additional help maybe, from the Dutch authorities or maybe from even the United States authorities, to help them search these particular areas.

COSBY:  And Julia, stick with us because I want to bring in Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee‘s mom, of course, who is with us tonight.  Beth, what you have heard about this?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S MOTHER:  Rita, there was talk of this several weeks ago.  And you know, I really didn‘t know if there was any credence to it.  And then I believe it was last week, maybe it was Friday, I believe there was an article posted on the Internet about a new witness had come forward.  So you know, this isn‘t anything new to me.  Id‘ heard of this, like I said, several weeks ago, and then again through a Dutch—I think there was an article that had been translated and had seen it on the Internet.  But as far as any other official source of information, I have not heard this from anyone else.

COSBY:  What do you make that, you know, the chief of police, Chief Dompig, who you know, is saying that he‘s putting a lot of credence in this?  He believes it‘s sort of a credible tip, and we just were hearing from Julia that person expressing remorse.  Again, she‘s not sure if it‘s somebody who witnessed it or who just happened to be driving by.  How do you read that, Beth?

TWITTY:  You know, I just can‘t put any credence in it until, I think that—until John Kelly gets some information from Karin Janssen, I really just am not going to put too much into that, Rita.

COSBY:  Now, I know you‘ve had a lot of—a lot of tips and things coming in.  You know, for some reason, Beth, the tone of his language here is he‘s using sort of the word credible.  And again, the quote that he gave us is, “These new searches are because of a tip that we received last month,” he says, “that is very credible.”  Seems to be putting a little more prominence on this.  And of course, we all want everything resolved in, of course, the best way possible.  Do you—does this language mean anything new to you more, Beth, that there‘s maybe a little more to this one?

TWITTY:  You know, until I see something going on as far as an active search, it‘s just really hard for me to bite into this one, Rita.  I just want to see them pull together a search before—before I fall for this one.  It‘s just happened too many times.  I know this one seems to be building, and it all seems to be headed in that direction, but you know, that one last step has to occur, and the search has to begin.  So until I see that, I just don‘t know if I can go for it or not, Rita.

COSBY:  Beth, you have heard if there‘s any more activity taking place at the sand dunes down there?  And have you heard anything about new searches about to get under way?

TWITTY:  You know, only that it‘s been—you know, it‘s still steadily building towards this, but I don‘t think anything has been finalized.  And I know that Dompig has said that he wanted to coordinate a search with the Dutch Forensic Institute in Holland, but the last I heard, he wasn‘t even going to begin this until March.  So I‘m not real sure.  He doesn‘t seem to be putting any sense of urgency into the search.  So something just doesn‘t fit.

COSBY:  Yes, it is interesting that they would wait if they do put a lot of credence, on one hand saying credible, and then on the other hand saying that they were going to wait a week or two, although maybe they‘re waiting for a certain type of equipment, Beth.  You know, the other thing, that area has been searched a bit, right?  Scoured, right?

TWITTY:  It has been—well, I think that they had searched it, you

know, several times initially this summer.  But you know, the conditions

were just so unforgiving when they were doing the searches during the

summer, I mean, with 98-degree, you know, average temperature.  By the time

you know, I think the dogs had a very limited time that they could search.  And of course, you know, limited to a small area.  So you know, I just think it‘s just a pretty big job for them to undertake, and it‘s just never really been done thoroughly or properly.

COSBY:  Is it possible, too, that maybe somebody‘s coming forward or inspired because of hearing that Joran‘s doing these interviews, getting out there, the parents doing the interviews?  Is it possible maybe it‘s hitting a chord and someone does have a guilty conscience, Beth?

TWITTY:  You know, I can only hope that, Rita—I Hope that, you know, it has caused some dissension among some of them and some of them are now beginning to realize that Joran is—how he is just taunting us, and you know, just as he came forward in the United States and just expected to come over here and be permitted to, you know, begin now to probably discredit the family and on our own soil and—so maybe some people have had enough of it.  And you know, we‘ve had the reward money in place, and it‘s $250,000 for information that leads to her whereabouts.  And you know, maybe someone is coming forward.  You know, we can always hope that.

But I really want to see Karin Janssen communicate with John Kelly, the attorney, that if she has some information, or Dompig has some information, they need to be sharing it.

COSBY:  You bet.  And of course, you guys are the first and foremost people that should be getting that kind of information.  Beth, stick with us because I want to get to right now private investigator Bo Dietl, who‘s with us right now.  He‘s the guy who personally served Joran Van Der Sloot with a civil lawsuit by the Holloway family as soon as Joran arrived at JFK.  And we also have with us on the phone tonight former FBI profiler and MSNBC analyst Clint Van Zandt.

Bo, what‘s your reaction?  You know, the tone from Gerold Dompig—there seems to be more of a sense of urgency, albeit it sounds like he‘s still waiting a little bit to do the search, but using the term credible, saying that it was someone, you know, who called in this tip, at least from our sources.  What do you gather from all this, Bo?

BO DIETL, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR:  Well, if this happened a month ago and he had this tip a month ago, all of a sudden, he decides, I think we‘re going to have an interview coming up in a day or two on ABC, and it‘s just a little funny to me, if you have this credible information, why do you wait to right now to release it?  Why didn‘t you release it a month ago, if you‘re going to release it at all, or if you‘re going to keep it quiet and do the search, you do one or the other.

This thing has been botched from the beginning by the Aruba police.  I hope to God that we find Natalee, but as far as I‘m concerned, I feel like that Natalee‘s mom that this could be another just walking down a wrong-way road.  As far as I‘m concerned, we have a real viable suspect, and a viable suspect was served papers the other day in New York.

COSBY:  And in fact, we‘ve got some pictures of that which we‘re going to put up right now.  These are some of the pictures of when you actually were there serving him.  And Bo, we‘re going to get to that in one second because I want to hear all the details of what it was like talking to him face to face and his reaction.

But Bo, hearing this also, let‘s say with the chief—and again, this is the police chief saying, Very credible, and again, who knows, I—you know, we—of course, there‘s been so many of these sort of red herrings through the past—saying that, apparently, something credible he received last month, he feels quote, “strongly that a body is buried somewhere in those areas.”  Bo, that‘s pretty strong language from a chief of police to say.

DIETL:  Well, I just—honestly, Rita, as far as I‘m concerned, to get some closure into this case, if there‘s some fact to it, let‘s see it.

COSBY:  You know what?  Bo, could these interviews and these kind of things, all the attention, be spurring to someone to finally say, You know what?  You know, one of the sources we were talking to is hearing that the person who called said, I feel sorry.  I feel some remorse.  I feel some regret.  That was something similar to what Julia Renfro was just saying.  Is it possible that maybe some of all the attention is getting someone to come forward with information, have a guilty conscience?

DIETL:  You know, Rita, there‘s all types of cases that surface through people who feel guilty if they commit murder.  And there are people who don‘t feel guilty, and people try to blame other people, or to get the publicity around it.  There‘s a lot of avenues here.  I just hope that we get closure in this case eventually.

COSBY:  You bet.  And of course, we want the best of information for Beth and the family, of course, much better news than even what Dompig is suggesting here.

You know, let me bring in Clint.  Clint, what is your reaction now, the tone from Dompig, putting a little bit on that and saying that on the record with us and some other news organizations?

CLINT VAN ZANDT, FORMER FBI PROFILER, MSNBC ANALYST:  Well, there‘s two different issues here, Rita.  Number one is a Dutch television program three days ago, in which Joran Van Der Sloot and his father were both interviewed in Dutch, but I‘ve seen the translation.  And in that interview, Joran suggested he didn‘t like Natalee, she wasn‘t a sweet girl.  He says he wouldn‘t have dated her.  He says she was drunk.  He says she was coming on him.

These are the type of things you hear, Rita, when a suspect, a serious suspect, is trying to dehumanize their victim.  They‘re trying to blame it on the victim.  I mean, this girl is still missing and likely dead, and whatever Joran Van Der Sloot‘s involvement, it doesn‘t help anything—obviously, her family, or himself—to start dehumanizing the primary victim in this.

And number two, when the information that you‘re breaking right now that‘s coming out, this telephone call—supposedly, it‘s a telephone call.  The caller called in.  He was crying.  He spoke in Papiamento, which as you know, is the native language in the Philippines, suggesting that he had information that could lead to Natalee.  As Beth says, this has been out for a couple of weeks.  If, in fact, it has, my question is, why are the Aruban police one more time dragging their feet?  If not the cadaver dogs, get out the ground-penetrating radar.  Get what you have to, and let‘s find it or rule it out.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  Just stop dragging your feet.  Bo, real quick, your response?

DIETL:  You know, we had the Palm Sunday massacre.  For one week, we had some nut that took us all over Brooklyn, saying that he had information, to different phone booths, to this phone booth, that phone booth.  And it turned out that he wanted to insert himself into the story and he‘s making fictitious phone calls to the station house, to the 75 squad.  This happens a lot of times, where people want to insert themselves into a story.  It could very well be.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  And again, we don‘t know, at this point.  The only signal we‘re getting from the police is that it sounds like they‘re taking it a little more seriously.  I wonder if he gave something to verify it or, or if it is just, again, a tip, at this point.

Everybody, stick with us.  Still ahead, we‘re going to have a lot more on that new tip coming in on the Natalee Holloway case.  Plus, we knew the Van Der Sloots were surprised when they got served with the lawsuits in New York City.  So how did Team Holloway find out Joran and his parents were in the U.S.?  Who gave them the big tip, and how did it all go down?  That‘s next.

Plus, on another story, could the words of an escaped killer help track him down?  For the very first time on LIVE AND DIRECT, you‘re going to hear his voice just days before he got out.  Does the interview hold any clues to where he‘s hiding?

And a big twist in the case of a teacher who had sex with a handful of teenagers.  Tonight, find out why her own husband is in trouble for his own scandalous trysts.  It‘s all coming up on LIVE AND DIRECT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  Back now on LIVE AND DIRECT with breaking news in the Natalee Holloway investigation.  Deputy police chief Gerold Dompig says he‘s getting ready to launch a new round of searches in Aruba after getting what he calls a credible tip.  According to the police chief, this tipster says he knows exactly where Natalee Holloway‘s body is buried on the island.

Back with us right now is private investigator Bo Dietl.  Also former FBI profiler and MSNBC analyst Clint Van Zandt, and also Tim Miller from the Texas Equusearch, who knows that area well.  And still with us, of course, is Beth Holloway, of course, the mom of Natalee Holloway.

Bo, let me get to you first.  How detailed is it going to be, how tough to pin down this search?  And particularly, you just heard from Julia Renfro it‘s an enormous area of the beach, when I was down there.

DIETL:  Yes, but they have—they have technology.  They have this heat-seeking cadaver technology that they could utilize from the United States.  If they welcome the technology over there, I think they could put that to rest.  If that body is there in that area of five football fields, that‘s not really that much for a search.  And possibly, if the body is there, they can find it.

COSBY:  Tim, you‘ve got state-of-the-art equipment.  How tough do you think it‘s going to be to pinpoint this and see if this is credible or not?

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH:  I think in five days, we could make that determination.  In fact, I had contact with Gerold Dompig yesterday and...

COSBY:  What did he tell you?

MILLER:  ... and I offered that equipment again.  I let him know how difficult it would be with dogs over there.  I mean, we‘ve had people probing the ground and dogs and—you know, and that sand that fills up the holes that we had probed.  And with the ground-penetration radar equipment, I think in a matter of three days, with eight of them units out there, Natalee could be found.  So we‘re holding off our water search.  His response to me yesterday was that under no circumstances is he going to allow us to do any land searches.

Now, Tim, really—he‘s not going to let you do any land searches, which is crazy.  And again, we‘re looking at pictures—this is me and Art Wood, when the two of us were down there searching right at that area by the lighthouse.  Tim, very quick, did he give you a sense how credible or not this tip was?  I mean, he‘s using some pretty strong language.

MILLER:  Well, you know what?  I still believe Gerold Dompig wants to solve this case.  I‘ve got a lot of faith in him.  I think he‘s doing what he can do with this case, with what he has to work with.  And I‘m here to support him in any way of helping bring Natalee back home.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  You know, Bo, I want to get you in because I want to show the pictures because you actually were face to face with Joran Van Der Sloot.  You actually served him.  He was served, what, once on the plane, and then there‘s the picture right after he got to JFK.  Bo, what was that like?

DIETL:  Well, you know, this was a very—we only got information on Wednesday that the father was coming in with his family and that Joran was going to be coming into New York.  So we were going to fly someone out to Amsterdam to get on the plane because when the plane arrived, we had it all set up.  We were going to serve him on the plane.  But we also wanted to serve the father and not alert the father that we was going to serve him.

We had a surveillance team at Kennedy which followed the father and the family to the Lucerne Hotel in Manhattan.  So we took a room in the hotel, and we waited.  We waited until the son got on the plane.  We had an operative on the plane.  And then when we knew he was in the area and he couldn‘t communicate with his father, we then served the father at 1:00 o‘clock in the lobby.

Now we waited for the plane to come off.  Upon the plane landing, the operative served him the papers.  We were e-mailed that the papers were served properly.  But what I wanted to do is make sure there was not going to be a doubt, so we waited.  There was a hold-up, about a two-hour hold-up.  There was a watch—he was on the watch list, I believe by the FBI, and they kept him in there about two hours longer from when the plane arrived.

When he came out, immediately, some fellow there came running over to him and threw a coat over his head.  Now, Joran‘s about 6-foot-6.  He‘s a big guy.  And I went over there and I told him, This is an official process.  I‘m serving you a summons and a complaint.  And this person got in between me, pushed—tried to push me away, but he didn‘t push me too far.  I pushed him back.  And I served him.  I stuffed the papers right into his jacket.  And I said, Why don‘t you take the coat off?  You look like Darth Vader or something there.

So I followed him, and then I wanted to make sure.  He took the papers out, and he crumpled them up and he threw them down on the floor.  We should have had him arrested for littering New York City.  And then we followed him to the cab, and I kept asking him, Where did you bury that little girl?  Why don‘t you come clean?  I was—you know, I got very personal.  I got two daughters, also.  If this guy has nothing to do with it, let him start cooperating, stop lying and start telling the truth of what happened that night.

COSBY:  And Bo, can I hear Beth in the background.  Beth, what do you want to say to Bo Dietl?

TWITTY:  Oh, listen, I hear him loud and clear, and I am with him 100 percent.  And you know what I was thinking, Rita?  For just a second, I was caught off guard and I almost bit into the information that Dompig—that was coming out of Dompig.  But all of a sudden, I had these nine months of flashbacks.  And you know, no, I‘m not going to do it because all I‘ve had from Dompig is talk.  I‘m going to wait on John to give me an answer because he‘s the only man in the investigation that‘s shown any action.  So I‘m not going to bite on it, Rita.

COSBY:  And you have a great attorney by John Q. Kelly.  You know, Beth, what do you think of—pretty incredible, just the orchestration to get, you know, Bo there at JFK, as you just heard from Bo, the guy—the former guy from Scotland Yard.  Pretty amazing.  What did you think, Beth, of Bo getting him on one end, someone else on the plane, and then Paulus, somebody in the lobby?

TWITTY:  You know, it was just a brilliant move on John‘s part to put

all this together and to execute it, and involving Bo.  I‘m just—you

know, look forward to the day that I get to meet Bo.  And you know, I just

am just amazed at what all these men have been able to accomplish.

DIETL:  John Kelly, one of the finest attorneys, has brought us in a couple months ago, Rita.  Nobody knew that they were involved with it.  I‘ve had detectives in Aruba through John Kelly, and we‘ve developed a lot of information.  And the thing is, obviously, my face in Aruba, everyone knows who I am.  So we sent our detectives, the finest detectives in the world there, and we‘re hoping that we can come to conclusion.  And we‘re hoping if something happened to Natalee, we hope we‘re going to make them pay, one way or the other.

COSBY:  And it sounds like you certainly caught them by surprise.  Beth, real quick—I want to keep—I want to actually hold both—I want to hold Beth, actually, if I could.  And Bo, thank you very much because I very much appreciate your insight and for you being here and also sharing the pictures.

I want to bring in, if I could, and get reaction to, of course, all these developments that have taken place from someone who actually knows and has spoken to Joran actually in the last few days.  That is the person who negotiated, actually, the Van Der Sloots‘ recent trip to New York City.  LIVE AND DIRECT tonight is the president of Silver Creek Entertainment, Larry Garrison.  He also co-authored the new book—it‘s a book that‘s coming out, “Aruba: The Tragic Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise.”

Larry, I got to get your insight because you‘ve talked to Joran in the last, what, few days?  When was the last time you talked to him?

LARRY GARRISON, SILVER CREEK ENTERTAINMENT:  I spoke to him.  But before we get into that, I‘d like you to know that I spoke to Dave Holloway, who‘s been extremely proactive, searching for his daughter in Aruba, working with Dompig and other people.  And it is our contention right now that this is old news.  We have...

COSBY:  This is the tip, you‘re talking about, Larry, right, the tip that Dompig is saying is credible?

GARRISON:  Exactly.  And it‘s old news.  And knowing that “Good Morning America” and “Primetime Live” is airing on Thursday night, all this is, is damage control.  It‘s a shame.  It‘s—you know, it‘s another roller-coaster that Aruba is putting this family through.

I also want to let you know, on the book that I wrote with R.  Stephanie Good and Dave Holloway, that we created a foundation, the Natalee Holloway Foundation for Missing Persons, and to also continue the search for Natalee.

COSBY:  So some of the proceeds will actually go to this foundation?

GARRISON:  And for other missing persons.

COSBY:  Yes, how—how—Larry, how did—everybody‘s wondering—you have this deal with Dave Holloway.  How did you—how did you finesse and get the deal with Joran and his family?  It‘s opposite ends.

GARRISON:  Well, I went undercover, basically, once I started writing the book with Stephanie and Dave.  And what we did was, I had to report, as a journalist, both sides of the story.  I had spoken to Deepak Kalpoe.  I also then befriended Joran Van Der Sloot.  And I believe there are two sides to every story, and any individual has their opportunity to be able to speak out.  And we wanted to get the truth.

COSBY:  And real quickly, what‘s their mood tonight, the family, Joran Van Der Sloot‘s family?

GARRISON:  Well, I really can‘t answer that question only because there‘s a pending—the “Primetime Live” is going to be out Thursday night, and more or less, I‘m under a gag order with that.  I can tell you that it was an ordeal for everybody in New York.  Hello?

COSBY:  Yes.  We got you on, Larry.

GARRISON:  Are you there?

COSBY:  And I‘m sure it was quite a surprise, too, the whole ordeal, too.

GARRISON:  It was really something.  Now, Rita, I also want to break for your viewers that you actually were the one who called me up on Wednesday evening, when you saw a blog that he was coming to New York.  I think John Kelly did a wonderful job with service, but most definitely...

COSBY:  And Larry, I also want to cut you off because we just have a couple seconds left.  I also understand they also met with an attorney, too.  The Van Der Sloots, met with an attorney, is that right, when they were in New York?

GARRISON:  I was told they met with an attorney, but I was not privy to what came down with that.

COSBY:  All right.  Larry Garrison, thank you very much.  We appreciate you being with us.  Thank you.

GARRISON:  Thank you.

COSBY:  I want to bring back in, if I could, Beth Holloway Twitty.  Beth, you know, as you hear everything, now that you hear that they also met with an attorney, what‘s your reaction, Beth, about the whole ordeal in New York?

TWITTY:  Well, they should be taking it seriously, you know, Rita.  You know, there—I think that John has shown them that, you know, they were just permitted to enter the United States and just taunt us, as they‘ve been permitted to do on the island of Aruba and Holland, and you know, that we expect some accountability.  And I just don‘t think they ever counted on John putting this plan together, and I think it was surprise for them.

COSBY:  Well, Beth, thank you very much, and I hope you get some answers, and some good answers soon, Beth.  Thank you very much.

And everybody, thank you.  We‘re going to continue to stay on top of these brand-new developments, all the developments coming from Aruba tonight.  And we‘re also going to bring you every detail as it unfolds right here on LIVE AND DIRECT.  You can also read the entire Holloway lawsuit for yourself on our Web page, plus see behind-the-scenes photos as Joran Van Der Sloot and his family, that they were slapped with that suit in New York City.  It‘s just a click away.  Go to rita.msnbc.com.  And we‘re going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  And tonight President Bush is standing firm in the face of growing outrage over the plan to put a Middle East country in charge of six of America‘s biggest ports.  The ports would be run by a company owned by the United Arab Emirates. 

Late today the president said that he would veto any attempt to stop the deal.  Here is NBC‘s Chip Reed with the details. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHIP REED, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):  After a torrent of criticism from both parties, today the president defended the deal and the United Arab Emirates as a staunch ally in the war on terror.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  If there was any chance that this transaction would jeopardize the security of the United States, it would not go forward.  The company will not manage port security.  The security of our ports will be—continue to be managed by the Coast Guard and the Customs. 

REED:  When the story first broke, the White House accused Democratic critics of playing politics, but today it was Republicans who led the charge. 

Senate Leader Bill Frist, usually a close White House ally, threatened to introduce legislation to ensure that the deal was placed on hold until the administration gives it a more thorough review. 

The deal would allow a UAE-controlled company to run cargo operations in six major U.S. ports, New York, Newark, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Miami. 

Critics of the deal note that two of the 9/11 hijackers were UAE citizens and that much of the money that financed the attack went through UAE banks. 

REP. PETER KING ®, NEW YORK:  We‘re talking about a country which has had had unusual ties to Al Qaeda in the past. 

REED:  Some defenders of the port deal today accused critics of engaging in anti-Arab, anti-Muslim bigotry. 

ARSALAN IFTIKHAR, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS:  The message that this sends from the politicians is that, you know, no Arabs or Muslims need apply. 

REED:  Critics of the deal say that‘s nonsense. 

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK:  That is not because the UAE is an Arab country; this is because the UAE has had involvements with terrorism. 

REED (on-screen):  When Congress comes back from recess next week, one of the first orders of business is expected to be legislation to put the port deal on hold, legislation the president today threatened to veto. 

Chip Reed, NBC News, the Capitol. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSBY:  And, Chip, thank you. 

And joining us now to talk more about this divisive national security issue, Rear Admiral Craig Bone with the U.S. Coast Guard and also Jayson Ahearn with Customs and Border Protection. 

Admiral Bone, let me start with you.  Are you confident that security is not going to be compromised? 

REAR ADMIRAL CRAIG BONE, U.S. COAST GUARD:  Yes, I am.  The security of the ports and the facilities that are operating the ports, as well as the vessels in the ports, come under jurisdiction of the Coast Guard and Customs and Border Protection.  And there are safeguards in place with regard to security plans for the vessels, the facilities, and the ports themselves under an Area Maritime Security Committee. 

COSBY:  You know, Jayson Ahearn, would there be any role for this company in terms of security?  Is there any sort of crack, any loophole that they could have some sort of running of it? 

JAYSON AHEARN, CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION:  No, I think one of the important things for us to articulate to the viewers is that the security of the ports are still going to be the responsibility of the port authorities, consistent with the international shipment port security code, as well as the Maritime Transportation Security Act, to make sure that they are consistent with the physical security standards that are required. 

The ports have the overall responsibility.  Certainly, the Coast Guard and Customs and Border Protection have security that we share that responsibility with.  But we‘re not going to do anything that‘s going to go ahead and diminish the security of this country at our ports. 

COSBY:  You know, some the president‘s closest supporters are against this.  There‘s been a number of senators who have come out, Santorum, Kyl, Frist. 

Senator Santorum—I want to share a quote he says—he says, “Fundamental mistakes were made,” referring to in the process, “that permitted this proposed acquisition in the post-9/11 world to be approved.” 

Admiral, can you assure the American people that this was carefully reviewed, because everyone seems to feel like it was sort of rushed through?

BONE:  The review process is owned by the Department of Treasury.  Again, our responsibilities are providing security in the port itself for both the operations in the port and the cargo operations there. 

COSBY:  Let me show, if I could, this is a comment from Senator Jon Corzine of New Jersey. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JON CORZINE (D), NEW JERSEY:  It is a grave risk to turn over the security management of that to a country that has not shown the kind of commitment that I believe we need in the war on terror.  I will remind you that the UAE was one of three countries in the world to recognize the Taliban government in Afghanistan. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  You know, Jayson, there you hear from the former senator and now current governor of New Jersey, Jon Corzine.  Is it understandable—do you understand why the American public is concerned?  Is it fair to raise some red flags? 

AHEARN:  I don‘t believe so.  I think it‘s been misrepresented that the Dubai Ports World would actually have control of security at the ports and would be running these ports, and that‘s just not factually correct. 

They will be running terminals within these ports, not the ports authorities themselves or the security within these ports.  They‘ll be operating a fraction at the ports at these seven ports that are a part of this contractual deal. 

COSBY:  All right, both of you, thank you very much.  We appreciate you being here and informing us, because I know a lot of people have been watching and are concerned about that.  Gentlemen, thank you very much.

And Joe Scarborough is now going to have a lot to say about port security this evening.  Joe joins me now for a preview of what‘s ahead on your show tonight—Joe? 

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST:  Rita, I‘ll tell you what.  We‘re going to have some politicians on that are going to tell Americans what they can do to try to stop this port deal. 

I‘ll tell you what, I‘m one of those people who thinks it makes absolutely no sense to basically turn over some of our most important ports to a country that served as a staging ground for 9/11 attacks and has helped funnel nuclear components to Iran and North Korea.  We‘re going to be talking about that in “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY” tonight and much, much more. 

Rita, back to you. 

COSBY:  All right, Joe, thank you very much. 

And still ahead, everybody, an “All-Points Bulletin” tonight for an escaped killer and the prison volunteer who helped get him out.  For the first time, an interview with the escaped con. 

And a dramatic twist in the case of a teacher who had sex with her student.  Turns out her own husband was also having a tryst on the side with a married woman.  It‘s a story that just keeps on twisting and turning, and it‘s next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  Well, could an interview with an escaped killer help track him down?  We have new details tonight on an “All-Points Bulletin.”

John Manard and Toby Young are believed to be on the run together.  Manard is a convicted killer; Young was a prison volunteer.  She ran the Safe Harbor Prison Dog program.  These newly released photos show Manard working with the group. 

Ironically, it turns out, Manard mentioned Young in an interview shortly before the escape. 

Joining me now right now live is Greg Reeves of the “Kansas City Star” who got that interview. 

Greg, first off, any new leads on where they could be?  Have you heard anything? 

GREG REEVES, “KANSAS CITY STAR”:  Nothing has been said from prison authorities or anywhere else about possible sightings or their location, no. 

COSBY:  And where do authorities think, that they‘re still in the state of Kansas or elsewhere, maybe? 

REEVES:  I believe the theory is the opposite, that they have distanced themselves quite a bit from this area. 

COSBY:  And, you know, it‘s ironic because, as we‘re looking at a picture of him and Toby Young, you did this interview with John Manard.  How did that come about?  How did that interview happen? 

REEVES:  Well, I write a crime blog for the newspaper, “Kansas City Star,” and it‘s about all things crime-related.  I called Kansas prison authorities and Missouri prison authorities asking to speak with an inmate about what it‘s like to be in prison at Christmas.  Kansas came up with John Manard.

COSBY:  So they picked him as, what, the poster boy...

REEVES:  So I interviewed him...

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY:  ... the poster boy for prison reform?

REEVES:  That‘s the exact term for it, Rita.  They brought him out as someone who had reformed, someone who had turned his life around.  As one of my blog readers commented, yes, turned it around 180 degrees from in prison to out of prison. 

And I talked to him on the phone for about 20 minutes, and I have to say he‘s fairly articulate. 

COSBY:  And, in fact, I want to play a little clip of what he said to you.  This is actually where he mentions Toby Young, ironically, by name.  Let‘s listen to that. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MANARD, ESCAPED CONVICT:  The only people that I can really speak good for is Brett Peterson and Toby Young, really, because Safe Harbor Prison Dog program that‘s, you know, that‘s what I put all my energy into.  That‘s all I got.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  You know, Greg, what‘s your reaction?  Here he‘s mentioning Toby Young, finds out she helps him escape.

REEVES:  Rita, he mentioned her twice in the interview.  The name didn‘t mean anything to me at the time so I kind of blew past it.  But you‘re right; the only people he did mention in the entire 20-minute discussion were Toby Young and Brett Peterson, the executive officer of Lansing. 

COSBY:  Yes, it is just ironic that he‘s talking about her there.  Let me also play another part.  This is where he talks about what he does in prison. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANARD:  It really depends on the situation, but for the most part I try to stay busy and keep a positive attitude.  Sometimes it doesn‘t work out that way, because obviously you‘re not completely in control of your life anymore in here. 

But the more you dwell on the past or the bad, the harder it is to do time.  So you try to make it as easy as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  You know, easy as possible, like try to break out?  Greg, how ironic is it?  Did you see any inkling that this guy was going to try to make a break for it?

REEVES:  Rita, my thoughts were that he was in the right place, belonged in prison.  And, no, I didn‘t think for a minute that he was thinking about escape, but I didn‘t think he was sincerely changed, either. 

COSBY:  You didn‘t?  You could already get a sense that there was something questionable, huh? 

REEVES:  Well, right.  You know, typically, he blamed everybody else for his problems and then added on as sort of a footnote that “I got myself into this situation.” 

COSBY:  Greg, really incredible.  Thank you for sharing that interview, ironically just soon before he escaped with Toby Young. 

And, of course, anybody, if you have any information on this case, call the Lansing correctional facility.  The number is 913-727-3235, or the Kansas Bureau of Investigation at 1-800-572-7463.  Again, those numbers 913-727-3235, 1-800-572-7463. 

John Manard and Toby Young are considered armed and dangerous.  Do not approach them.  And, of course, call authorities if you have any information on them. 

And coming up, shocking new details about a teacher in trouble for having sex with her students.  Turns out her own husband may also have been naughty on the side. 

And a prize pooch is on the loose.  He escaped after the Westminster Dog Show.  Tonight, wait until you hear how they‘re searching for him now.  It‘s coming up. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  Tonight, an interesting twist in a teacher‘s sex case.  This time her husband is in trouble. 

Beth Geisel is the upstate New York school teacher who bedded at least three student, including one 16-year-old.  She served time in prison and then went into rehab. 

And if you think her story is bad, this one is really wacky.  Her husband, Thomas Geisel, was allegedly having his own hot affair while his wife was preying on minors.

And it gets worse.  Her husband was reportedly sleeping with a married woman, and now that married woman is in hot water of her own; her husband wants a divorce.  What a twisted tale this is. 

Joining me now to help us untangle this web of love is “New York Post” correspondent Kenneth Lovett who got the exclusive story. 

So, Kenneth, explain to me.  Beth Geisel, of course, this is the teacher who everybody was talking about, had sex with a number of students, including the 16-year-old.  She‘s named—her husband is named as the other man in a divorce filing.  How did that come about? 

KENNETH LOVETT, CORRESPONDENT, “NEW YORK POST”:  Oh, it‘s ugly.  We got a hold of this divorce filing David Bean, an Albany-area P.R. man, filed against his wife, his estranged wife now, saying that she was having an affair with Thomas Geisel who was a prominent president of a local regional bank, Key Bank. 

And, you know, I think the big question has always been with the Beth Geisel case:  How did this woman who, by all accounts, was a great teacher, who had four kids and, you know, just had a great life, a very good life, how did she fall into such, you know, a life of alcohol, and sleeping with the kids? 

And, whether it‘s coincidence or not, this affair with the husband began about a couple of weeks before she began sleeping with her students. 

COSBY:  I know.  Do we know—of course, there‘s still no excuse to sleeping with students... 

LOVETT:  No. 

COSBY:  ... but do we know if she knew about this affair? 

LOVETT:  No, we don‘t know.  You know, the timing is obviously very suspicious about what was going on, but, no, we don‘t know. 

But obviously the husband, Thomas Geisel, apparently has made no attempt to hide it, to keep it on the down-low.  He went to a party with a lot of clients and a lot of prominent local community leaders, and he was basically dirty dancing with this married woman of her own who had her own kids. 

They were fondling.  They were canoodling.  I mean, it was out there in the open. 

COSBY:  And in fact, Kenneth, though, I want to show a quote.  Karen Bean even says in the filing, “Openly, publicly, arrogantly and notoriously committed adultery.”  This is what the husband says about his wife. 

Where did this affair take place, again?  Where did they do this, because they were both married? 

LOVETT:  They did it, apparently, and according to the court filing, in her house, in his house, in the Four Seasons in Boston and New York City.  David Bean claims that, at one point, Karen Bean and Thomas Geisel came home to her house drunk.  Her kid was there; David Bean‘s kid was there. 

COSBY:  Oh, my goodness.  This is outrageous!

LOVETT:  And then they disappeared into the, quote, unquote, “marital bedroom” for several hours, not to be seen for several hours. 

COSBY:  Now, you got a hold of the jilted husband, Mr. Bean, of course.  He provided you with some of the letters.  These are some of the letters that he actually personally wrote to Beth Geisel‘s husband, Thomas Geisel.  I want to read a portion of one of the letters he writes.

“I know all about your adulterous affair with my wife of 14 years,” he confronts him, “Karen Bean.  And what you don‘t know is I‘m still deeply in love with my wife.  I urge you to break off this relationship with Karen Bean now.”

How often did the husband write these letters?  And any response? 

LOVETT:  There was a whole bunch—there was at least two e-mails that I saw and two hand-delivered letters.  I didn‘t see any responses. 

Thomas Geisel has been in hiding since his wife had her problems, and he‘s certainly not coming out right now. 

I did speak to Karen Bean a couple of times.  Interestingly enough, she vehemently denies that she‘s having an affair, but will not say whether she‘s having a relationship with Geisel. 

And I think the difference is the affair supposedly began, according to David Bean, in May, and Karen Bean filed divorce in December of 2004.  So what she might be doing is some wordplay and saying, “Well, I wasn‘t even with my husband when this relationship began,” but she will not confirm or deny.  She says her husband is just bitter, he‘s a liar, and... 

COSBY:  What a mess. 

LOVETT:  ... and that he‘s trying to get at her.  It‘s a mess. 

COSBY:  Kenneth, thank you very much.  Really incredible.  We saw the story in the “Post.”  Our jaws just dropped.  What a mess.  Thank you very much for being with us.

And still ahead, everybody, another APB that we‘re following.  This time it‘s an “All-Paws Bulletin” for a prize show dog from the Westminster Dog Show who vanished at the airport.  How did it happen?  And can a pet psychic help find him?  That‘s coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIL WALTON, CO-OWNER OF MISSING DOG:  She sleeps in my bed.  You know, she‘s my dog, so she‘s priceless.  Really, everything has been done in this area—I mean, they had helicopters up looking for a dog. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  And we have another APB tonight.  This time, it‘s all an “All-Paws Bulletin.” 

Investigators are turning to the sixth sense in the desperate search for a prizewinning dog.  Twelve pet psychics joined the search for Vivi, a three-year-old female whippet.  Vivi won an award of merit last week at the Westminster Dog Show. 

And then, less than 24 hours later, she had an unmerited escape from her change at JFK Airport.  Joining us now live is pet psychic Sonya Fitzpatrick.  And on the phone is one of Vivi‘s owners, Paul Lepiane.

Paul, just real quick, how did Vivi get out of her cage? 

PAUL LEPIANE, CO-OWNER OF MISSING DOG:  We don‘t know that yet.  We checked her in at 9:45.  And at noon, Jil was told that her dog was not in its cage.  And we don‘t know what happened during that time. 

COSBY:  Any idea where she could be?  Is there any suspicion on your part where she might have gone? 

LEPIANE:  Well, we had sort of a breakthrough today in that we had two search dogs on the airport grounds.  And one of them picked up a scent trail in a couple of different places, which leads us to believe she‘s still on the grounds.  And at least now it gives us an area to pinpoint our search. 

COSBY:  Sonya Fitzpatrick, as a pet psychic, where do you believe she Vivi is?  What do you feel?  Are you sensing anything?

SONYA FITZPATRICK, PET PSYCHIC:  Yes, I spoke to Paul yesterday.  And I sensed she was still at the airport.  I sensed she was still very afraid, because their hearing—the dogs hearing, it‘s like a bomb going off to her every time a plane comes down. 

She‘s very frightened.  And I was able to talk to Paul and the dog.  I was receiving pictures, and feeling, and emotions, and senses.  And she gave me some information, which I gave to Paul. 

COSBY:  And, Sonya, how does that work?  Because people are fascinated, I think, always with psychics.  How does it work, especially, as you point out—is it more difficult to tune into sort of a dog‘s emotions versus a human‘s emotions? 

FITZPATRICK:  No, Rita.  It‘s not.  I just prefer to work with animals.  I‘ve done a lot of work with people, too, but animals are so much easier to work with. 

And, you know, they are very—you get your feelings, your emotions, your senses, your pictures.  They‘re highly intelligent.  I have a sixth sense, too, and I feel like a dog.  I know how she‘s feeling.  She‘s very afraid. 

I feel last night it could be great if Paul could go out with the dogs early in the morning, when there‘s not the same amount of noise, the early hours of the morning.  And once I start to talk to an animal, I stay on their line. 

And it‘s the hardest work I do, because all of the emotions of the people I pick up and also of her, too.  And she‘s very smart.  She‘s very bright.  She‘s a wonderful little dog.  She‘s pretty hungry, but she is getting water.  And she gave me information about the car that they were in. 

And Paul was speaking through a Tannoy.  And that is not good; it‘s best for her to hear his voice naturally. 

COSBY:  You know, Sonya, I have to ask you, because, you know, psychics have helped solve a lot of cases.  You know, however people feel about psychics or not, there has been some proof that they‘ve provided information.  What kind of track record do you believe, even with pets?

FITZPATRICK:  Say that again, Rita.

COSBY:  What kind of track record, in terms of solving, in terms of actually providing and solving cases? 

FITZPATRICK:  You mean, of me getting pets back? 

COSBY:  Yes, or just psychics in general?  I think it‘s fascinating.

FITZPATRICK:  Well, a few weeks ago, I was working with a cat.  And I would say I get 60 percent back, not all of them, Rita.  That‘s why this the most difficult work that I do, because I‘m getting pictures from the pets.  I‘m receiving it from the pet‘s perspective, and humans always see it from their perspective. 

And I become the pet.  And I talk to the pet.  And they will send me pictures.  For instance, she sent me a picture of a cream car yesterday, and Paul said they were traveling in a cream car when they were looking for her. 

Also, I got a very strong sense of smell from the tires, because their sense of smell is 2,000 percent more than hours.  And I become the dog, and I know what she‘s experiencing.  I know what she‘s feeling... 

COSBY:  And, Sonya, we got to interrupt you.  Unfortunately, we got to go to a hard break.  But thank you very much.

FITZPATRICK:  Thank you, Rita.

COSBY:  And I hope this has a happy ending.  Thank you very much.

And, everybody, that‘s the number to call, please.

And, everybody, tomorrow night, the secrets of the hit show “American Idol.”  Before Ryan Seacrest and Simon Cowell were household names, there was an original host, Brian Dunkleman.  He‘s going to dish out all the dirt on “American Idol.”  If you have any questions, be sure to e-mail us at rita.msnbc.com.

And that does it for us.  Joe Scarborough starts right now—Joe?

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END   

Copy: Content and programming copyright 2006 NBC.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2006 Voxant, Inc.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon NBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.

transcripts

Watch Rita Cosby Live & Direct each weeknight at 9 p.m. ET

Discuss:

Discussion comments

,