Guests: Jorge Mujica, Michelle De La Cruz, Keith Bishop, Gloria Allred, David Feige, Eric Brunstad, Steve Bridges, Howard Stern
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST, “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY”: RITA COSBY LIVE AND
DIRECT starts right now—Rita.
RITA COSBY, HOST: Thank you, Joe, very much.
And good evening everybody at home.
Tonight, a turning point in the Duke rape investigation. Do these pictures prove that one of the suspects could not have been at the house at the time of the alleged rape?
And the Supreme Court sides with Anna Nicole Smith. Find out why she won but why she still may not get her late husband‘s big fortune.
But first, the fiery and very intense battle over illegal immigrants. Hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets today from coast to coast in 75 cities. They hope to prove that without them, many jobs simply would not get done.
Let‘s get started with NBC‘s Jennifer London, who is in Los Angeles—
Jennifer.
JENNIFER LONDON, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Rita, good evening.
Today, downtown Los Angeles was transformed as hundreds of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets. They carried flags. They carried signs and banners. And they carried, they say, a dream to become American citizens.
By some estimates, the crowd gathered outside of city hall earlier today reached 500,000 or more. And tonight at this hour, another rally and protest underway, with as many as 400,000 marchers heading down which Wilshire Boulevard.
And despite city leaders urging students to stay in school today and attend this evening‘s rally, we understand that as many as 72,000 middle and high school students skipped class to participate in the rally outside of city hall earlier today.
Now, that rally very intense. It was very emotional. The atmosphere was electric. It was boisterous, but it remained peaceful for the most part.
And one marcher I spoke with said that, you know, today‘s activities, they‘re not about one person or one city. They‘re about a nation. And a nation of illegal immigrants that are demanding a fair pass to citizenship.
And with that, I will toss it to my colleague, Ron Allen, in Denver, Colorado.
RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, Jennifer.
Here, there were about 75,000 people gathered on the steps or near the steps of the state capitol. A number that‘s not as large as out there in Los Angeles, but it still exceeded the expectations of the organizers here and it makes this one of the largest political rallies perhaps ever in this state.
The Hispanic community is about 1/3 of the population in Denver. And at one point during the day, there was a sea of white that could be seen from the air and all across the city. The marchers, who were gathering here, marched through the heart of the city, and the procession at one point stretched out for perhaps as far as two miles.
I was struck by the fact that it was really a very—a family event.
A lot of adults here who said that they had left their jobs.
It‘s still unclear exactly how the economy here might have been affected. There were some major employers, some meat packing companies that were affected. Some shut down; others were reduced to just skeletal staffs.
There were also a lot of kids in the crowds today. And we understand that some of the Denver schools reporting absenteeism as high as 70 percent.
Again, a huge crowd here, the second march of this size ever here in Denver, in recent months, as well.
Now, I want to toss to my colleague, Jay Gray in Chicago.
JAY GRAY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, here in Chicago things have obviously ended for the day. But through the day, thousands of protestors poured into Grant Park here. In fact, Chicago police say as many as 400,000 protesters were a part of the march and rallies that took place here, making this one of the largest displays in the country today.
As you might expect, we saw a lot of American flags, a lot of Mexican flags in the crowd. But also, unique to Chicago, we saw flags from several other nationalities. This is a city with a rich history of immigration and the people hear say they are going to continue to push for changes in immigration law. They‘re going to keep the pressure on until a decision is made. They say expect more rallies from Chicago, from the windy city. For now, though, that‘s it.
Rita, back to you.
COSBY: And Jay, thanks so much. And I just returned from today‘s rally in New York City, where we saw thousands upon thousands of people marching. Among them, both celebrities and immigrants, legal and illegal. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS/ACTIVIST: I‘m not pretending that it‘s a simple issue. But I think that it really—what we‘ve seen here today is that these people have a voice. And you hear that? They have to be dealt with.
REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Now that they are here, now that they‘re working, we‘re going to say, oh, we‘re making you a felon? That is not right. That is not American. And it won‘t work. Practically, how are you going to move 12 million people out?
You‘re going to have a war in Iraq. You‘re going to move 12 million people. You‘re going to overcome hurricanes. We‘re a super power; we‘re not God.
COSBY (voice-over): Where are you from? (speaking Spanish)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexico.
COSBY: Mexico. Are you here legally? (speaking Spanish)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking Spanish)
COSBY: Illegally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking Spanish)
COSBY: Why are you here? (speaking Spanish).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking Spanish)
COSBY: I am here to show support because we‘re not criminals here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not criminals. We come here to work and to help our brothers. So, I want to say, Bush, (speaking Spanish). Thank you very much.
COSBY: That means, “Mr. President, we‘re here to fight.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pardon.
COSBY: That means, “Mr. President, we‘re here for a fight.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to fight anybody who is against immigrants.
COSBY: Are you here legally or illegally?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I‘m here legally.
COSBY: You‘re here legally?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, but my parents are illegal.
COSBY: And why do you think it was critical to be here today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I want to fight for my people. I want to fight for the injustice of the people that they have at their jobs.
COSBY: Are you here legally or illegally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking Spanish) I‘m here illegal.
COSBY: You‘re here illegally. Are you worried about being here today, being seen, losing your job?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma‘am. No.
COSBY: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I‘m proud to be here, because I want to help—I want to help my people. Everybody, we‘re here for one reason and one reason only. And that is to help everybody and to support everybody, because we are all illegal. Everybody is illegal. And we‘re proud of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came here to work. That‘s all we‘re here for.
We‘re here to work. That‘s it.
COSBY: What do you say to folks who say, we can‘t open the floodgates, we can‘t open the borders to everybody?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that they‘re wrong.
COSBY: Will today going to make a difference, this march?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it will. It will make a big difference.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: And this is—we‘re speaking of the huddled masses. These are the huddled masses. And they‘re yearning in their own way to breathe free.
COSBY: You think today can make a difference?
JACKSON: Today will make a difference because it is—it is so massive and so nonviolent. And so full of economic security. It will work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: Quite a crowd out there today. And with us now is Jorge Mujica. He is organizing today‘s rally in Chicago. And also, Michelle De La Cruz. She is with Mothers Against Illegal Aliens.
Jorge, let me start with you. How successful were the rallies?
JORGE MUJICA, CHICAGO RALLY ORGANIZER: They were very successful.
Think we showed again, you know, that we are human beings, flesh and bone. We are here working. We are here paying taxes. We are parents. We are cousins. We are part of the society. We are consumers. We are workers. And we need the necessary papers that the government requests from us.
COSBY: Let me bring in Michelle. Let me bring in Michelle.
Michelle, big success?
MICHELLE DE LA CRUZ, MOTHERS AGAINST ILLEGAL ALIENS: Hi. Absolutely not. I think the first thing we should say is that, as they say in Rome, when you go to Rome, do as the Romans do. And when people come here illegally from Mexico or any country, bur primarily from the -- 85 to 95 percent we have coming from Mexico.
They should do as Americans do. Not continue to keep saying (speaking Spanish). And then you hear them talking about how they‘re here for their people. They‘re going to be at these rallies for their people.
COSBY: What are you suggesting? I mean, Al Sharpton brought up, he said, “What are you going to do, send 11 or 12 million people back?”
DE LA CRUZ: Well, what I have to say to that, is that they have already put themselves in a position where they left their families and come here to another country. Making them go back to their own home country is not displacing them. It‘s putting back where they started.
COSBY: Let me bring in Jorge—Jorge. What do you say to that?
MUJICA: If that happens, you‘re going to have two revolutions. First, in our own home country, because you‘re going to be adding one million, two million, 10 million people jobless. And that‘s going to create a very bad situation.
Secondly, you‘re going to have a revolution here because so many employers are not going to find workers, you know, that accept payments as low as we do.
DE LA CRUZ: Well, I have to say...
COSBY: Go ahead.
DE LA CRUZ: I think that you misjudge the American people‘s will. We‘ve sustained our country and fought for the freedom of the American people for many years, and that‘s something that you don‘t seem to grasp.
MUJICA: And we‘re going to fight—we‘re going to fight for that same American freedom.
DE LA CRUZ: Well, you don‘t seem to grab the whole—the whole ideology of laws and following law. Nor do your people, as your people who were in your demonstration kept saying, one after the other, that they were illegal.
What we have going here, and let me just point out, I had a 16-year-old anchor baby today earlier from my presentation on FOX News e-mail me, and this is what she said. And I‘d like to have your comments on this, sir.
She writes and says, “We work in the fields. We pick your fruit. We fix your yard, and we mend your dresses. We take care of those dirty little animal looking things called your loving children.” This is what a 16-year-old child of America, who‘s here illegally through illegal parents, thinks of the American children.
COSBY: Jorge, go ahead. Because I‘m sure that that‘s not the case with everybody. Jorge, come on.
MUJICA: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And we have again so low wages, so, so low wages.
DE LA CRUZ: You‘re not answering my question about what that child says.
COSBY: Michelle, be quiet and let Jorge answer.
DE LA CRUZ: I‘m sorry, but you asked me to come on the show—why doesn‘t he answer the question?
COSBY: Please let Jorge answer. Michelle—Michelle...
(CROSSTALK)
MUJICA: Well, we want to be able to present legal papers when we apply for a job. The only problem here is that immigration system is not giving us the papers. They are creating the jobs. We are coming here. We are trying to do everything legally. But if we have to stand in line to get those necessary papers, we would have to stand in line for 20 years.
DE LA CRUZ: So you don‘t want to follow the law. There‘s people that come here from...
MUJICA: We would do it...
COSBY: Real quick. Let me put up a poll. Let me put up a poll real quick. Because there is a poll, NBC/”Wall Street Journal” poll. We asked, and this is surprising. I was very surprised by this last week. Will May Day protests help or hurt immigrants‘ cause? Seventeen percent said help;
57 percent said hurt.
Jorge, I‘ll get to you, and then Michelle, I‘ll get you to answer.
But Jorge first, are you surprised by that number?
MUJICA: Oh, no, absolutely not. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about our movement. We are not calling for a strike and a boycott here, particularly Chicago. We don‘t want to affect the rest of the economy. We want a life. And we want everybody to join in this struggle and get us our papers.
COSBY: Let me get Michelle. Michelle, you get the last word. Quick.
DE LA CRUZ: I still want him to answer my question.
COSBY: Michelle, I want you to answer our question about the poll.
Please stay focused.
DE LA CRUZ: Well, we still haven‘t figured out why children call the American children dirty little animals, and that‘s what they call the American children. I‘m a mother against illegal aliens.
COSBY: Michelle—Michelle, I want you to just respond to my poll.
Because I was surprised by this 57 percent said...
DE LA CRUZ: I‘m not here—I‘m here to talk about the children of America that the illegal alien children, and this man is taking away the future of our children.
COSBY: All right. That‘s going to have to be—Michelle, we will get you back on again. We appreciate both of you. We‘ve got to go to a break. Both of you, thank you very much.
And still ahead, everybody, big developments in the Duke rape investigation. Could the district attorney be off the case? And that‘s not all tonight. If you thought that was fireworks, take a look at what‘s ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY (voice-over): Still ahead, could these brand new pictures prove that one of the suspects in the Duke rape investigation is innocent? How does this change the case?
And Anna Nicole Smith went to Washington and won. But if you think she‘s about to get her hand on a billion bucks, hang on. This fight is not over yet. The attorney for her late husband‘s family tells me why.
Plus, I go one on one with the King of All Media, Howard Stern. If you think he‘s changed his ways, I think again.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ladies and gentlemen...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here I am.
COSBY: And an exclusive interview with the president of the United States. Well, he just impersonates the president of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See, there‘s the church. And there‘s the steeple.
Open the door. And look at all of the people.
COSBY: You won‘t see this anywhere else. It‘s coming up on LIVE AND
DIRECT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALIK ZULU SHABAZZ, NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
SHABAZZ: When do we want it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
SHABAZZ: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
SHABAZZ: When do we want it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
SHABAZZ: How do we find Seligmann?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
SHABAZZ: How do we find Finnerty?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And that‘s the scene from Duke University just a few hours ago. The scene is again intense even though classes are over.
The big news in the case comes from the defense team. They say that these new surveillance pictures taken at an ATM the night of the alleged rape, prove the alibi of one of the suspects, Reade Seligmann.
Also today, the defense team is demanding that the prosecutor, Durham D.A. Mike Nifong, be thrown off the case. They argue that Nifong is using the rape case to win reelection. That vote is set for tomorrow.
And one of the people running against Nifong is Keith Bishop, and he joins me live.
Keith, you know, these photos really, you know, a day before the election, what would you do if you were the D.A.?
KEITH BISHOP, DURHAM D.A. CANDIDATE: Well, the D.A. basically has got to play the cards the way he‘s got them. He‘s set himself up with a bad hand.
His reaction with respect to the motion to oust him from the case ought to be the one that he made. You know, they can‘t put him out. He‘s a constitutional officer.
But I basically say to the defense lawyers, if you want him out of the case, you need to just get your army of voters and vote him out. And I tell them, I‘ll give you all the help you need. I‘ll drive the voters to the poll.
COSBY: What would you do differently? Keith, what would you do different? I had you on before. But now there‘s been a lot more details coming out about the case, in the meantime. You‘ve got these pictures. What would you do differently if you were the D.A.?
BISHOP: Well, they‘re trying the case in the press. Everybody is doing that right now. And as the D.A., I basically want to make certain that these photos are exactly what they‘re cracked up to be. It doesn‘t look good. I‘m not clear what the timeline is.
COSBY: But you‘re on our air also. You‘re on our air also. In fairness, everybody is reaching out to the media in this case.
BISHOP: Yes, but you know, I‘m not representing any of the parties.
What we‘ve got to be clear on is the timeline. The defense has put a timeline out there. And it may very well be that that timeline is an accurate timeline. I‘ve not heard much from the prosecutor except that he‘s denying that that is in fact the timeline.
So, that‘s an issue out there. And you know what‘s remarkable...
COSBY: Well, what would you have done differently? What would you have done different? Would you have continued with the case? And in fact, let me put up a comment. This is from the defense team, because as you pointed out, they‘re trying to throw the D.A. off the case.
They put “District Attorney”—this is in their filing—“Mike Nifong neglected his duties as a prosecutor to seek the truth and a fair prosecution. He created an actual conflict between his professional duty to search for the truth and his personal, vestal interest in getting elected.
They go through a whole bunch of bullet points. They say he ignored the facts. He was making prejudicial statements, improperly injecting himself into the photo lineup. And also denying Seligmann, Reade Seligmann, a probable cause hearing. Do you think he dropped the ball, Keith?
BISHOP: Well, all of those are accurate, but they‘re really meaningless. The D.A...
COSBY: Do you think he dropped the ball. Yes or no?
BISHOP: I think he did. I certainly do. I certainly do think he did. But none of those things would justify removing him from the case.
COSBY: So what do you think is going to happen tomorrow? What do you think is going to happen tomorrow?
BISHOP: Well, the judge will deny the motion. The judge will deny the motion. I think that the defense lawyers, I think they‘ve played a very brilliant move.
COSBY: What about the voters? What‘s going to happen in terms of the D.A. race tomorrow?
BISHOP: Well, I hope the voters see that this prosecutor just isn‘t able to handle the big ones. He just can‘t handle big cases, and he‘s just messing this one up right and left.
And the only thing he‘s got in his favor is the Constitution that shields him from being removed from the case.
COSBY: Well, Keith, we are going to be watching this closely to begin with and we‘ll be definitely following this extraordinarily closely tomorrow. And we‘ll catch up with you soon. Thank you very much.
BISHOP: Oh, sure.
COSBY: Wish you a lot of luck tomorrow. Thank you.
BISHOP: Yes, and let these defense guys come on down and let them join my campaign. Let‘s go and vote this guy out. That will take care of their problems.
COSBY: And I‘m sure that they would be happy to join you, Keith.
Thank you very much.
Well, will these new photos that we‘re talking about with Keith help clear one of the suspects? And can the defense really get rid of the D.A.
Let‘s bring in defense attorney David Feige and also victim rights advocate Gloria Allred.
Gloria, first of all, let‘s show the pictures, because these are pictures from the surveillance camera showing Reade Seligmann. And you can see a pretty decent shot of his face in other ones, you see his arm basically, as you can see there. Is this enough there to say maybe they got the wrong guy, Gloria?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM RIGHTS ADVOCATE: I don‘t think any one piece of evidence is going to be enough, Rita. I think what we‘re going to have to see is what actually gets admitted into a court of law. And then we‘re going to have to...
COSBY: Should it be?
ALLRED: Pardon me?
COSBY: Should it be enough?
ALLRED: Well, no, I don‘t think any one piece of evidence. But I think it‘s going to be the totality of the evidence. And of course, whether the prosecution is going to be able to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt and whether or the defense is going to be able to raise enough doubt to—to basically to defuse the prosecution‘s case.
And think that there is a lot of doubt that is being raised right now. But we don‘t know what else the prosecutor has because right now, we‘re seeing a lot of what the defense‘s cards are.
But we‘re not seeing anything that the prosecution has, because although we know that the nurse, the sexual assault nurse apparently has indicated in the report that she believes the injuries were consistent with sexual assault. We don‘t know what else the D.A. has. So we‘ll have to wait.
COSBY: So what are you thinking you‘re going to do, David. Well, is there anything else out there? When I saw the D.A. When I was out there a few weeks ago, he looked like a guy with something else up his sleeve?
DAVID FEIGE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don‘t know, Rita. I think it was enough a long time ago. I think Mike Nifong hitched his wagon to the wrong horse. I think he‘s regretting it now. I think he‘s regretting it since he did it.
COSBY: Do you think the photos are enough to drop it?
FEIGE: I tell you what; he‘s not going to do anything until he tries to secure re-election tomorrow. And once he does, once the pressure is off...
COSBY: So do you think this is all politically motivated, all politically motivated, you think?
FEIGE: Completely politically motivated. Look, this guy jumped on this case like it was sent from heaven. He went out there. He called them hooligans. He claimed that they were, you know, that they were basically guilty, which by the way, is completely violative of the North Carolina code. It‘s rule 3.8. It says you can‘t do that and be a prosecutor.
COSBY: Let me bring in Gloria. Gloria, is this all politically motivated?
ALLRED: Well, that‘s really unfair to say. That‘s unfair to say it‘s completely politically motivated when I just told you about the sexual assault exam that was done at the hospital. So, apparently, I think you think the nurse was politically motivated as well. And again, a grand jury has indicted, and I don‘t think you can say that a grand jury is politically motivated. True, they only had to find probable cause. But still they did.
FEIGE: Well, I don‘t need to tell you, that a grand jury will indict, in the famous words of Sal Waltzberg (ph), a ham sandwich.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: OK. Speaking of ham sandwiches, OK. The photo lineup. We know by now that she was only shown lacrosse players. David, what‘s your reaction to this, as part of the defense filing?
FEIGE: Shooting a fish in the barrel. It‘s perfect. If you think about it, somebody has got to be guilty. Pick who it is. And what we see with the situation of Reade Seligmann—I‘m sorry.
COSBY: Is that enough reason to change the D.A. or even throw it out?
FEIGE: Well, throw it out. Very likely. Change the D.A. Ii a much more complicated thing, and I don‘t think they‘re going to change D.A.‘s.
COSBY: Gloria? Is it possible to throw it out?
FEIGE: Look...
COSBY: Gloria.
ALLRED: The case, I doubt that the D.A. is going to have to be refused from this case or is going to recuse himself.
FEIGE: We agree.
ALLRED: As to whether or not it gets dismissed at some point, we‘ll have to wait. Just remember, there‘s no witness that has been confronted. No witness has been cross-examined under oath. Let‘s wait until we hear what the witnesses have to say.
FEIGE: Well, we have a lot of documentary evidence that speaks very, very loudly on this. We have the absence of DNA. We have the original suggestion that there were injuries already disproven by the photographs. We have an unbelievable alibi bolstered now by photographs, by key codes, by pass cards. I mean, this is pretty bad stuff for the D.A.
COSBY: Just please don‘t say cabbie, David, because that cabbie, we poked holes in his story.
Gloria, what do you make of the cabbie? And let‘s go—let‘s go to the timeline. Because David did talk about the timeline. It‘s interesting. You see these photos. Clearly, it looks like he‘s at the bank at 12:24, picked up by the cabbie at 12:19. Then goes to the ATM.
And then we know that he goes to his dorm. He swipes his dorm card at 12:46.
The fact that the cabbie‘s been inconsistent, Gloria, does that discredit any of the ATM stuff?
ALLRED: Well, Rita did an incredible job cross-examining the taxi driver. And you know, maybe finding that he was a bit inconsistent on some points.
But you know, Rita, your guest suggested something was proven or not proven. It‘s totally ridiculous. There‘s been no trial yet, so how can you say anything has been proven?
COSBY: Gloria, is it possible he still went to the ATM but for other reasons?
ALLRED: Well, anything is possible. You know, we‘ll have to see what the timeline is, according to the D.A. And again, you know, if the alleged victim was sexually assaulted, you know, it may be that she‘s remembering the timeline as clearly as others might remember it.
FEIGE: Rita...
COSBY: David, I‘m going to get you to respond to this. Because we got into the filing for the defense. We also got—this is Reade Seligmann‘s cell phone records. And think it‘s pretty powerful for the defense in this case. I‘m holding it up right here, because it‘s pretty powerful if you look at numbers, all of the calls.
And it shows 15 calls between 12:05 a.m. and 12:25 a.m., eight of them to the girlfriend. So if you look at that timeframe, again, we‘re not sure of the exact time, but it‘s awfully hard to be raping someone and calling your girlfriend, David.
FEIGE: Rita, it‘s very, very powerful stuff. Let‘s be clear. I‘m not arguing with Gloria that obviously, a trial is the best place for all of this to come out. The problem is what happens when you rush to judgment, you charge an innocent kid and then all the evidence keeps piling up, overwhelming evidence that suggests that you are prosecuting an innocent person. What we have is that situation.
COSBY: OK. Let me get Gloria.
FEIGE: It‘s a looming election out there, and Mike Nifong hasn‘t done the right thing.
COSBY: Gloria, I‘m going to give you 10 seconds.
ALLRED: With all due respect, Counsel, talk about rush to judgment. You think this case shouldn‘t even be proceeding. And there‘s been no evidence presented in the court of law. I think we all should suspend our judgment, and let‘s wait and hear what the D.A. has.
FEIGE: The problem is, we‘ve already ruined their lives.
COSBY: And both of you, it‘s going to have to be the last word. Love to have you both back on. You‘re both terrific. And so long, everybody.
Anna Nicole Smith wins in Washington in a court. But it doesn‘t mean that she is going to get her hands on her late husband‘s money. The attorney for his family is up next, and he tells me why.
And Howard Stern tells me his next step towards world media domination is cable TV, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know I love you. You know that.
COSBY: How much?
STERN: I can do an impression of you. I can do it. You got that sexy sort of voice. Right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Put a mark under the win column for former “Playboy” playmate Anna Nicole Smith, a Supreme win, that is.
Today, the U.S. Supreme Court decided unanimously that the one-time stripper can sue for her part of her late husband‘s fortune. Oil tycoon J. Howard Marshall was worth about $1.6 billion when he died in 1995. And, yet, Smith didn‘t get a dime. Today, the court opened the door for Smith to continue her fight over money with Marshall‘s son.
And live and direct tonight is the attorney for E. Pierce Marshall, Eric Brunstad.
Eric, what happens next?
ERIC BRUNSTAD, ATTORNEY FOR E. PIERCE MARSHALL: Well, what happens next is, the Supreme Court directed that we go back down to the 9th Circuit. And the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco will have to have to address some additional issues that it didn‘t have to decide before.
COSBY: And what do you think is going to happen, because the Supreme Court basically said, look, this should be looked at, at least?
BRUNSTAD: Well, and it was looked at. Remember, there was a five-and-a-half-month jury trial in the Texas probate court, which completely determining that she was not entitled to anything more than the $6 to $8 million worth of property that J. Howard actually gave her during his lifetime.
COSBY: But does this send a message, obviously, to your client, the son, that, maybe, you know, it‘s not as clear-cut; maybe she should get some money?
BRUNSTAD: Well, our position is that it‘s pretty clear. I mean, there was a five-and-a-half month jury trial. All of her allegations were tried. And she lost. And she is basically trying to get a second bite at the apple in federal court. And the—the Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit will have to take this up again.
COSBY: Well, let me—Anna Nicole Smith has said, “She‘s extremely excite that we got this ruling.”
Meanwhile, your client has also issued a statement, saying: “I will continue to fight to clear my name in California federal court. that‘s a promise that Vickie and her lawyers can take to the bank,” obviously, Anna Nicole Smith‘s real name.
Do you see this, though, being an uphill battle? Does this make it harder for your client?
BRUNSTAD: Well, we‘re optimistic.
One of the issues that we have that has to be decided now in the 9th Circuit, because it didn‘t have to decide it before, is whether the fact that we already had a decision in the Texas probate court that was final basically precludes her from re-litigating those issues in federal court. And we are very optimistic that we are going to prevail on that. And that hopefully will be the end of these 11 years of litigation.
COSBY: And it has been a long haul.
You know, the justices also touched on some of what may have happened after J. Howard Marshall died. They said that E. Pierce Marshall, who is your client, may have engaged in forgery, fraud, and overreaching to gain control of his father‘s assets.
Is your client a crook?
BRUNSTAD: Absolutely not. In fact, all of those allegations are untrue. They were conclusively determined to be untrue in the Texas probate court.
And recall that there was a five-and-a-half month jury trial in Texas.
COSBY: But, Eric, you got the Supreme Court justices. These are not just Joe Blo‘s off the street. They are alleging these things.
BRUNSTAD: Well, they were not alleging those things. They were just simply reciting what the federal courts had found.
Now, Pierce was not allowed to put on his case in federal court or present his witnesses or anything like the five-and-a-half month jury trial in Texas. So, not surprisingly, we argue the federal courts got it wrong.
COSBY: What do you think of Anna Nicole Smith? What does your client think of her?
BRUNSTAD: Well, she‘s not entitled to get more than what J. Howard intended her to have.
COSBY: What do you think of her personally? And what does your client think of her personally?
BRUNSTAD: Well, I don‘t really know her personally. I have only seen her a few times in court. And I can‘t really talk about her personally.
COSBY: What about a settlement? You know, look how long this has gone on for. Just both sides, come to some agreement, why not?
BRUNSTAD: Well, I really can‘t comment on any settlement discussions that might or might not be going on. That wouldn‘t be appropriate for me. I apologize.
COSBY: Aha. So, maybe there are some. Do you think that that is an option?
BRUNSTAD: It‘s always an option in every case, but I really can‘t comment on them in this case.
COSBY: All right. Well, Eric, keep us posted. Let us know how the settlement talks go.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Thank you very much.
BRUNSTAD: Thank you.
And we will keep you posted on the case.
Tonight, we also go behind the scenes with the king of all media, Howard Stern. With the new year came a new job for the shock jock at Sirius Satellite Radio. Tonight, we have got his take on the media, President Bush. And I also talked with him about the celebrity babies and breakups that we‘re all talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: Have you ever thought about buying a media company? What about CBS?
HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you know, I‘m contemplating taking over CBS. But they are not doing too well. So, it‘s maybe it‘s not the right—well, at least, what‘s to buy when they are not doing well?
I wish CBS well. Honestly, I do. They are suing me. They come after me, whatever. You know what? I think it‘s a case that they are love-sick, honestly. This is a case where I left. and they just can‘t get me off their minds. So, I‘m just going to barrel my way through it. Most of the experts tell me the lawsuit doesn‘t have much merit. And I‘m going to trust in the system.
COSBY: Speaking of the system, President Bush, now lowest approval rating. What advice do you have for the president?
STERN: Well, go into radio, President Bush. We have got a great slot open on Howard 100, Howard 101. You should see what is going on there. We need someone to do sex advice. You seem like a sexy guy. You‘re out there on the mountain bike. You are in your—your Lycra. Everybody wants to see you on the channels.
COSBY: Why do you think his numbers have been so low?
STERN: Well, I think we have a lot of problems in this country right now that are really frightening.
I think, if we had a draft in this country, you would see people rioting in the streets about Iraq. I think Iraq is a dangerous situation.. I think people feel we didn‘t plan for it properly, that most generals seem agree to agree that there‘s a lot of problems with our war and the stance on the war. I‘m nervous about it, you know...
COSBY: What advice would you have for the new press secretary, Tony Snow?
STERN: I would tell Tony Snow to stay close to the president, really suck up, and stay out of firing range of Dick Cheney. You know, you go on a hunting trip with that guy. The next thing you know, you got an ass full of buckshot. And who needs that?
COSBY: In Africa right now, Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, they are about to have a baby. What should they call it?
STERN: Well, I was thinking about Moldrid, Moldrid, because I think there‘s some rare disease named moldrid in Namibia.
I don‘t know what those two are doing in Namibia. They say they want privacy. Yet, meanwhile, every day, in the paper, we see pictures of them. I think they are the two best-looking people I have ever seen in world. And I think the cosmic joke would be if the two of them have a baby—we are all expecting this gorgeous baby—and the baby comes out looking look this. What a laugh we would have. Can you imagine?
COSBY: Who do you think is going to have a better baby, Angelina or Katie Holmes‘ baby, Suri?
STERN: Well, I think that is a tough one.
You know, Tom Cruise confuses me. Here‘s a guy, he‘s buying X-rays machines, so he can X-ray the baby every day. As soon as the baby is born and he can see it, he ran off to promote his movie, “Mission: Impossible.” He‘s quite a character.
(LAUGHTER)
STERN: Let me tell you about Charlie Sheen.
COSBY: Charlie Sheen, his now soon-to-be-ex-wife saying all over the porno sites.
STERN: What? What are you telling me? What did you just say?
COSBY: I know you have never heard that word before.
STERN: What did you just say, porno sites?
Listen, let me tell you something. I think we ought to do an instapoll right now on MSNBC. Who is more mentally ill, Denise Richards or Charlie Sheen. Now, you would have said in the old days Charlie Sheen. but Denise Richards married Charlie Sheen. That‘s just a real strange move for a woman to make, don‘t you think?
Then, she ran off with Heather Locklear‘s husband, who—Heather Locklear was her best friend. So, this—I think she might be tracking a little higher. But I want an instapoll. And I want results.
You know I love you? You know that?
COSBY: You do? How much?
STERN: I love—I can do an impression of you. I can do it. You got that sexy sort of voice.
COSBY: Have you been a fan for years?
STERN: I am fan of yours. I like your delivery. I like the way you talk. I like the whole thing.
COSBY: And what is it about me that you like the most?
STERN: I like your voice. I like the way you talk. You sound like you just came out of a smoky bar and you‘re with 20 guys.
What‘s your story? Are you married? What‘s going on?
COSBY: Are you hitting on me?
STERN: I‘m—I‘m just trying to find out what is going on. What—what are you?
COSBY: I think you are hitting on me. And I‘m not—and you are not even married now.
STERN: Are you married? Are you with women? What is going on?
COSBY: Well, first of all, are you—you are not married?
STERN: I‘m not married.
COSBY: Are you single?
STERN: I am with Beth Ostrosky for six years now. And the relationship is going well.
And who—who—who would be in love with this face? But I found someone who was.
COSBY: So, you are off the market? You are not available for even me, with my sexy voice?
STERN: Am not available.
COSBY: We know you are not cheap. We know you are making a lot of money. How do you spend your money?
STERN: Well, I would like to buy you a little something. I could see beautiful diamond earrings with big hoops, maybe.
COSBY: You want to be my sugar daddy?
STERN: I would like to be your sugar daddy.
(LAUGHTER)
STERN: And all you would have to do is spank me every night before I go to bed.
(LAUGHTER)
STERN: That‘s what I‘m into, and that is what I want.
COSBY: We may have to change the rating on my show. You know that?
STERN: Absolutely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: I‘m in a lot of trouble now. And Howard Stern was a lot of fun. Our thanks to him and all his folks.
And, when we come back, a LIVE & DIRECT exclusive, the star of the White House Correspondents Dinner. What was it like impersonating the president while standing next to the president? The man who played president joins me live next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to talk about some serious issues, such as...
STEVE BRIDGES, PRESIDENT BUSH IMPERSONATOR: Nuclear proliferation.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Nuclear proliferation.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Nuclear proliferation.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: Nucear proliberation.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: If you have a story you want Rita to investigate, call our tip line, 1-877-TIP-RITA, or log on to our Web site, Rita.MSNBC.com.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Well, a new set of Bush twins has taken over Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Distinguished, guests, ladies and gentlemen.
BRIDGES: Here I am.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BRIDGES: Here I am at another one of these dang press dinners. I could be home asleep, little Barney curled up at my feet.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: But, no, I have got to pretend I like being here.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Well, addressing the crowd at Saturday night‘s White House Correspondents Dinner, which I went to, which was terrific, this year, the president doubled his laughs with a look-alike sidekick.
And joining us now for his only TV interview tonight is the president‘s favorite impersonator/sidekick/comedian, Steve Bridges.
You know, Steve, you did a great job. I will tell you, all of us at the table where I was sitting, we just—we loved it. Did you have as much fun as we did?
BRIDGES: Oh, yes. It was great. It was a blast.
COSBY: Let me play a little clip, because you do such...
BRIDGES: Sure.
COSBY: ... an amazing impersonation of the president, especially standing right next to him.
Here is where he talks about the approval ratings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: As you know, I always look forward to these dinners.
BRIDGES: It‘s just a bunch of media types, Hollywood liberals, Democrats, like Joe Biden. How come I can‘t have dinner with the 36 percent of the people who like me?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: What kind of a sense of humor did you see with the president, even during your rehearsals, Steve?
BRIDGES: Well, he is really gutsy, to do something like this.
I mean, think about it. You have some guy, you know, right next to you who looks like you, acts like you, talks like you. And he is—he is very—let‘s see. How do I put it? He‘s very fun. He‘s very fun. He has got—he has got a great sense of humor about himself.
COSBY: He absolutely does.
And let me play—this is where you bring in a little Spanish action.
You talk about muy caliente, which is a line...
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: ... a line, I understand, you added.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: But let‘s play the chip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I‘m absolutely delighted to be here...
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: ... as is Laura.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: She‘s hot.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRIDGES: Muy caliente.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Steven, it is great. How did you guys come up with the lines?
BRIDGES: The muy caliente, or she‘s hot?
COSBY: Yes, all of that.
BRIDGES: It was just in—yes, well, the White House has—has a writer. And he was working on it. And I have a writer. And they were working on it. And they sort of—they sort of came together.
And, then, the day before, on Friday, I practiced briefly with the president. And we kind of bantered back and forth. And we—we figured what—what lines looked funny and good, and kind of polished it up, and said, all right, that‘s it. Let‘s go.
COSBY: And how did you keep it a secret? I understand, like you talked about, you guys did rehearsals. I mean, that is pretty amazing, because a lot of people were so surprised. When the two of you guys showed up on the podium together, everybody, their jaws dropped.
BRIDGES: I didn‘t tell a soul.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: I didn‘t tell anybody in my family. I didn‘t tell any friends.
It was like, a few hours before, I was on the phone, calling everybody: Hey, I just got to tell you something. I‘m going to be, you know, performing with the president. They are like, what?
So, it just—it was—it was—it was very difficult, keeping that a secret, but we did it.
COSBY: And, as we are looking at the two of you guys together, I mean, it is striking.
How much work does it take, you know, just makeup-wise, preparation-wise, to get on there and look like President Bush?
BRIDGES: Well, the—the makeup artist that makes me look like the president is Kevin Haney. And we—we allow, you know, two-and-a-half, three hours or so to—to get ready before a show, which we—you know, we travel all over, doing shows. And he does a brilliant job, as you can see. But it‘s—you know, it is all—you know, it‘s makeup and prosthetic pieces. And it just turns out great.
COSBY: Well, also, a lot of brilliance on your part.
I want to play nuclear proliferation, which you and the president had a hard time getting out. Let‘s play it.
(LAUGHTER)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: So, I want to talk about some serious issues, such as...
BRIDGES: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Here it comes.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Nuclear proliferation.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Nuclear proliferation.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Nuclear proliferation.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: Nucear proliberation.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Steven, how long does it take to become President Bush? I mean, you talked about time-wise just for the makeup, but just practice? How long have you been practicing this for?
BRIDGES: Well, since about 2000. Whenever he—he came on to the
scene, I started—I started impersonating him and working on him. And I
had already—I was already able to do his father. So, I sort of had like
a foundation for, you know, a launching pad to impersonate President Bush -
but, you know, basically, since 2000.
COSBY: And what was the hardest thing to get down pat?
BRIDGES: Let‘s see.
There is—there is a lot to it. But he has got great hand gestures. He has got great facial expressions, does the head forward thing. So, you combine it all and you have got President Bush.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Well, it‘s pretty good.
Steven, stick with us. We are going to have a lot more with you right after the break.
But, first, I want to bring in Tucker Carlson. This is the real Tucker Carlson. This is not an impersonator...
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: ... joining us here for “THE SITUATION” at 11:00.
What do you have in store, Tuck?
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON”: Rita...
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: ... I think Howard Stern likes you...
COSBY: I...
CARLSON: ... by the way.
COSBY: I know. I am a little scared by that. What do you think, Tucker?
CARLSON: I feel a little heat there, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: It kind of—it kind of made me uncomfortable, but I was titillated at the same time. I am in trouble.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: The Black Panthers—the New Black Panther Party shows up at Duke University, demanding the conviction of the two players indicted in that case so far.
Then, a new video game online where you can shoot virtual illegal aliens. It‘s pretty repulsive, no matter where you stand on that issue. We will show it to you.
COSBY: And, Tucker, we will be watching. Thanks so much.
CARLSON: Thanks, Rita.
COSBY: And, everybody, we are going to be a lot—have a lot more with Steven Bridges, AKA President Bush. And it is not only the president that he pokes fun at. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIDGES: Some of my critics in the international community call me arrogant. I will not even honor that with a response.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Screw ‘em.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And we‘re back now with Steve Bridges. He‘s the impersonator who performed with the president at the White House Correspondents Dinner. That just gave all of us a big laugh.
You know, Steve, one of the things I think was great about the president, he was able to laugh at himself and also his screw-ups, his mess-ups with the English language.
Let me play a little clip for both of you. I don‘t know how you kept a straight face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIDGES: Let‘s give this a try. We must enhance noncompliance protocols, sanction not only at IAEA formal sessions, but through intercessional contact.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: We must enhance noncompliance protocols, sanction not only at EIEIO formal sessions...
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: ... but through intersexual conduct.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Steve, how did you guys hold that in?
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: I—that was—that was fantastic. I don‘t even know how
I don‘t how the president says—says half these lines. I couldn‘t say that line again right now, if I had to.
IAEA, I didn‘t—I didn‘t even know what was—what it was. I was, like, what is this?
COSBY: Were you surprised...
BRIDGES: But it was funny.
COSBY: ... at what a great sense of humor he had? Where you surprised that he was able to like deliver it?
BRIDGES: I—I was—you know what? I wasn‘t—I wasn‘t so much
surprised, but I—I‘m—I‘m impressed. You know, I‘m impressed with his
with his, not only his—his ability to laugh at himself, but his ability to—to deliver a line and to—to work a crowd. He‘s good.
COSBY: Well, you were very good.
And I understand that you—you are not just limited to President Bush. I hear you do a pretty good Bill Clinton. Can we see it?
BRIDGES: Well, I want to—I want to just say that, first off, I appreciate you having me on. I hope that Hillary is not watching, because I am hiding from her.
But I just—I am a former president. There‘s a bunch of us.
There‘s days I just sit around and Google my own name.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Now, what about Arnold Schwarzenegger? I heard that we have Arnold Schwarzenegger on the show tonight, too.
(CROSSTALK)
BRIDGES: I want to be president of the United States of America. I want the—I want the nation to elect me, elect a—a legal immigrant. I will change everything.
We are going to tear down the Washington monument. It doesn‘t look a thing like him. How stupid. Come on. And you have a wonderful first wife in Maria.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Do you know why Maria married me? Because I was the only boyfriend strong enough to carry Uncle Teddy home.
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: Fantastic.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Now, are you also prepping for ‘08? Do you have a couple that you are preparing for, just in case they—they become...
BRIDGES: Well, you know, I—I think that Senator Clinton is going to run. And, so, if she does, which I think she will, I will always be able to do President Clinton, so—former President Clinton. I will be Bill.
And I think, you know, Kevin Haney, the makeup artist, he‘s brilliant.
Yes, I think he can make me look just like practically anybody. So...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Can he make you look like Hillary?
(LAUGHTER)
BRIDGES: He probably could, but, hey, let‘s—I will be Bill instead.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: What is the toughest thing about—about doing the impersonations? Does it take a lot of work? As you talked about the hand movements, all that stuff, I would just think certain people are just more difficult to pin down.
BRIDGES: Yes. I mean, there‘s—there—there are. There are some impersonations.
Like, I never really could do a good John Wayne. But I think the—the main thing is just listening to it and practicing over and over again, and being a little crazy.
COSBY: Well, Steve Bridges, you brought us a lot of laughs on Saturday night. And thank you for being with us tonight.
BRIDGES: Thank you, Rita.
COSBY: We really appreciate it.
And, of course, everybody, this interview and more of Steve‘s wonderful impersonations of the president, they are available, and everything else, on our Web site. Make sure you go to Rita.MSNBC.com—
Rita.MSNBC.com—to watch Steve.
And we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And, tonight, a teacher in trouble for having sex with her student is in even more trouble. And it‘s “Caught By Cosby.”
Politics say Pamela Rogers 20 videos just like this to a 14-year-old boy that she had sex with. As you can see, she is wearing little more than a thong bikini outfit. Get this. A court had already ordered her not to have contact with the boy.
But we will talk about this tomorrow night, right here on LIVE & DIRECT. Be sure to tune in for that.
And that does it for me tonight on LIVE & DIRECT.
“THE SITUATION” with Tucker starts right now—Tucker.
CARLSON: Thank you.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
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