updated 6/6/2006 11:00:19 AM ET 2006-06-06T15:00:19

Guests: Louise Pennell, Frank Liversedge, Kathleen Padden, Brian Jones, Vince Curatola, Steve Schirripa, Robert Iler, Dan Grimaldi, Arthur Nascarella, Andy Wilson, Jeffrey Gardere, Brenda Souers, Warren Holsonback, Roy Bassett


RITA COSBY, HOST:  Thanks, Joe.

And good evening, everybody.  Tonight, we begin with breaking news in the case of a 5-day-old baby snatched in Texas.  Little Priscilla Maldonado has been found safe, just one day after the mother claimed that the baby was grabbed by a woman posing as a nurse. 

All day long, police have been looking for the suspect and put out this sketch.  They‘ve had a lot of publicity on it.  And we‘ve just been told by authorities in Lubbock, Texas, we just got off the phone with them about 40 seconds ago.  They say that they have someone in custody, that the baby is fine.  There were a lot of concerns about the baby‘s health, particularly because it was only 5 days old. 

And the baby‘s great uncle, according to A.P., is saying that police told him that the baby was found in a car.  We‘re hoping to get some more word from authorities later on the show exactly who is responsible and what happened.  But the good news is the baby is now safe and sound and the baby is fine. 

And now to an unbelievable hoax that police say many people fell victim to.  Imagine the phone rings.  The caller says he‘s a cop and says he needs your help to stop a crime.  Would you listen to him?  Well, many people did.  But in the end, they were the ones caught on tape and accused of committing a criminal act. 


COSBY (voice-over):  It‘s a prank so sick and twisted, you‘d think only a fool would fall for it.  An anonymous male, calling himself “Officer Scott”, phones a fast food restaurant in Kentucky.  He tells the manager on duty, Donna Summers, that one of her employees has stolen something, and he says the young woman, Louise Ogbern (ph), needs to be strip searched.  As hard as it is to believe, the manager orders the girl to strip. 

DONNA SUMMERS, ASSISTANT MANAGER, FAST FOOD RESTAURANT:  I know not to trust people.  But you know, the man convinced that it was something (ph).  (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

COSBY:  At this point, the employee is already in tears, naked, with only a dirty apron to cover her.  But this obscene hoax is about to get even more out of hand.  Still on the phone, the quote officer tells the store manager that she needs to get someone she trusts to help look after the girl, so she calls in her fiance, Walter Nicks. 

SUMMERS:  I‘m thinking OK.  I‘m doing what I‘m supposed to do. 

COSBY:  When the manager leaves to help other customers, Officer Scott continues his unbelievable hoax.  He tells Nick to make the girl perform jumping jacks in the nude, to submit to a physical exam, and then in the most shocking and disgusting demand, he orders the girl to perform a sex act on Nicks. 

SUMMERS:  When I walked into the office, because of change or whatever I had to get, he was setting where she was when I left, or she was sitting where she was, and no one said anything. 

COSBY:  After hours and hours of this physical and emotional abuse, another employee finally breaks up the interrogation.  At this point, the caller hangs up.  And finally, the manager and her boyfriend question whether the call is really from the police. 

SUMMERS:  You look back on it and say, I wouldn‘t have done it, but unless you‘re put in that situation at that time, how do you know what you would do?  You don‘t.

COSBY:  Surprisingly, this is not the only case where “Officer Scott” duped managers into strip searching their employees.  He reportedly called as many as 70 places. 

Cops eventually arrested David Stewart, the man they believe is Officer Scott, 600 miles away from Kentucky in Panama City, Florida.  Stewart, who pled not guilty, faces up to 16 years in prison if convicted of these cruel and unusual crimes. 


COSBY:  And we‘re joined now by Andy Wilson, who‘s a reporter with the “Louisville Courier-Journal” newspaper, which has been following this eye-opening story from the very beginning. 

Andy, first of all, give us an update on this guy.  Was it Walter Nicks is the world‘s worst fiance.  What happened to him?

ANDY WILSON, REPORTER, “LOUISVILLE COURIER-JOURNAL”:  Walter Nicks was charged with felonies and pleaded guilty and was sentenced to five years in prison.  A judge refused to grant him probation, and he is serving a sentence. 

COSBY:  What kind of legal trouble is the manager, Donna Summers, in? 

She‘s, of course, the one who took the call and fell for it to begin with.

WILSON:  Donna Summers pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor, unlawful detention, but the victim, Louise Ogbern (ph), pleaded that she not be given jail time and she was given probation for her sentence. 

COSBY:  She actually has asked for some levity (sic) on her manager.

WILSON:  Right.

COSBY:  How is the girl doing?  I mean, you see her.  You feel sad for this girl.  But what is she doing?  How is she holding up?

WILSON:  She suffered from a lot of psychological trauma and was doing badly, especially in the immediate aftermath of what happened. 

COSBY:  What about lawsuits?  Is she planning on suing?

WILSON:  She has a suit pending against McDonald‘s for failing to warn employees of these ongoing strip search hoaxes, which McDonald‘s knew about. 

COSBY:  You know, in fact, let me bring—I want to bring into the conversation record a clinical psychologist and also a good friend of the show, Dr. Jeffrey Gardere. 

Jeffrey, first, let‘s talk about this individual.  This is the manager there.  Why would she allow this to happen?  Why would she fall for it being cops?

DR. JEFFREY GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST:  Well, I think as we heard earlier, this is an experience that many people in their lives don‘t go through.  It‘s something completely new.  And she just didn‘t have that kind of situation like this before and didn‘t know how to handle it. 

It doesn‘t give any excuse for what she did, but certainly, this is a woman who had some emotional issues and was caught in a time in her life where she didn‘t have the psychological wherewithal to get through some emotions or issues she had about wanting to or having to obey authority. 

COSBY:  Doctor, what about this poor girl?  As we see her, she‘s crying and she‘s barely asking, you know, can you get somebody else in here?  Trying to do all the right things.  But clearly overwhelmed, enough to perform a sex act on this fiance, who she brought in.  Why would someone go to that extreme and listen to orders like that?

GARDERE:  I think at that point, Louise Ogbern (ph) was actually in shock, and she probably is experiencing some post traumatic stress as we speak right now.  I think the situation became so surrealistic for her that she just was not within her own body.

And Rita, we‘ve seen this before with other women who have been sexually assaulted, with rape victims, that they have had the chance to be able to escape, but once it gets beyond a certain point, they are just not there psychologically anymore, and it‘s just—they‘re just acting as if they‘re robots. 

COSBY:  You know, and I want to go back to Andy, because Andy, you said McDonald‘s, the allegation is McDonald‘s allowed it.  Did they know that there were these pranks all over the place?  In fact, I want to put up, because we know it wasn‘t just this branch. 

We know that it was at 70 different locations.  They include 65 fast food restaurants.  Of course, not all McDonald‘s.  Nine sit-down restaurants, as well.  This was pretty widespread.  They‘re believing that this guy was involved in 70 different locations all over the country, as you can see. 

When you look at that, are you saying that McDonald‘s was aware of some behavior and didn‘t warn its employees, Andy?

WILSON:  He started, actually, in 1995.  The first one was at a Pizza Hut in Devil‘s Falls, South Dakota.  And by the time this store in Kentucky was targeted, 17 McDonald‘s managers had fallen for it, and McDonald‘s was already defending itself in four lawsuits at the time of this incident. 

COSBY:  And they never put out a word out to any of their employees is what you‘re saying?

WILSON:  They made some efforts, efforts that failed, to notify employees. 

COSBY:  And in fact, let me put up what they said.  They‘ve given us a statement.  It is actually: “We are keenly aware of these unfortunate incidents”—they‘re referring to this case—“and will continue to take appropriate actions to safeguard customers and employees.”

You‘re saying they didn‘t do that at all.  In fact, Dr. Gardere, there are some other cases.  The Milgram experiments (ph).  This in the ‘50s and ‘60s.  Maybe you know about them.


COSBY:  It‘s sort of famous, where the subject is sort of ordered to obey instructors, knowing that it‘s causing pain on these people.  They don‘t know that‘s that they‘re actors. 

GARDERE:  That‘s right.

COSBY:  And they even go to the extreme basically knowing that what they‘re inflicting could be death.  We‘ll show a little clip of this.  This is from our pals at Court TV.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Now continue using the last switch on the board, the 450 switch.  Continue, please. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I‘m not getting no answer.  Doesn‘t the man‘s health mean anything? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Whether he likes it or not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He might be dead in there.


COSBY:  You know, Doctor, when you see that, you know, thinking that they might be dead, why do people go to that level of extreme to listen to orders so much?

GARDERE:  Yes.  That experiment, which actually took place in 1963 in Yale.

COSBY:  I knew you‘d know the date.


COSBY:  Yes, and Yale.  This—this 7.5 percent of those people actually gave the full voltage of 450 -- 450 volts.  And I think the reason that they did that, the same thing with Nazi Germany, which is why this experiment was taking place, is because people have this—this overwhelming need to have to satisfy authority, especially if they feel that perhaps they‘re not psychologically sophisticated, if they have issues with self-esteem, if they don‘t believe in themselves. 

COSBY:  And in the case of this poor girl, we‘re looking at the video again, Doctor.  It‘s so sad. 

GARDERE:  Exactly, exactly.  And she‘s so immature.  So here we go, where she‘s following authority.  And we‘ve seen this happen over and over again.  And that‘s why people should be educated about this, because if they knew about it, then perhaps they would know how to act in the face of the unknown. 

COSBY:  Doctor, thank you very much.  And Andy, thank you very much from your corner.  We‘re still on this, everybody.

And still ahead, new details in the Clemson bikini murder case.  Wait till you hear who police are taking D.A. samples from.  And why they think a break in the case could be near.  The victim‘s mother is going to join us live. 

And after a year of believing that he‘s dead, why do some people suddenly believe that Olivia Newton-John‘s missing former boyfriend may actually be alive and faked his disappearance? 

Plus, I go into the heart of New Jersey, tracking down five of the Sopranos.  Wait till you hear what these well known wise guys told us about the final episodes, which are coming up.


COSBY:  And now to brand new information that we‘re learning tonight in the search for the killer for Clemson University student Tiffany Souers, found strangled to death with a bikini top. 

They‘ve already released these photos of the suspect and his car, where you can see that he desperately tries to use Tiffany‘s bank card at several ATMs. 

And now today, authorities say they‘re, quote, certain that by this Wednesday, they‘ll have significant information for the public.  We‘ll hear from Tiffany‘s mother in just a moment. 

But first, NBC‘s Michelle Hofland is live in South Carolina. 

Michelle, what‘s happening?  What are you hearing?

MICHELLE HOFLAND, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Actually, we have no idea right now.  The Greenville County solicitor has been paying his cards very close to his vest.  But let‘s take a look now at a statement that he released just a short time ago. 

He says, quote, “The investigation is moving quickly.  I continue to feel optimistic.  We are certain that by Wednesday we will have significant information available for release to the public.”

Certainly, many around here are hoping that what they‘re going to release is the suspect‘s name, but there is absolutely no indication of that right now. 

The last time that he released significant information was last Friday, and that‘s when he released 12 ATM photos.  Some of the photos are of a man that the county solicitor says is using Tiffany Souers‘ ATM card at two different banks six different times, just two hours after the murder.  The other pictures are of the car that the man was said to be driving. 

Now, the man is in pictures covering his face with his hair and two bandanas.  But notice there‘s a distinctive cross on those bandanas.  Now, the vehicle, the solicitor says that is a late model two-door SUV Chevy or GMC, light or medium color.

Now, tonight the solicitor tells us that they still have not found the ATM card that the man was using.  Now since the media have started showing these pictures on TV, the Crimestoppers tip line has already received more than 200, more than 200 tips into that line. 

Tonight, the county solicitor says that they have brought in about 50 people for questioning, and Rita, of those 50 people, they‘ve taken DNA samples from about one-third of them.  The county solicitor says that they do have a DNA match—or they do have DNA from the—from the suspect, but, what they‘re hoping for is a match. 

Back to you.

COSBY:  Michelle, thank you.  Please keep us posted.

And joining us on the phone now is Tiffany Souers‘ mother, Brenda. 

Brenda, how are you holding up now as the days drag on?  But it sounds like they‘re closing in. 

BRENDA SOUERS, MOTHER OF TIFFANY SOUERS:  It does.  We‘ve been very encouraged by what we‘re hearing lately. 

COSBY:  Have you gotten any information, Brenda?  One of the things Michelle Hofland, our reporter there on the scene was saying is that maybe it‘s a suspect‘s name they may come out with on Wednesday.  Have you gotten any indication what they‘re going to have by Wednesday?

SOUERS:  I have not heard that at all.  No.

COSBY:  Do you get the sense that they are coming to—they released these pictures.  We‘re looking at the pictures.  There is a very distinctive cross on the scarf.  Do you get a sense that they at least are getting a lot of clues?  Two hundred calls, that‘s great.

SOUERS:  Right, right.  Well, we pray that they will be finding the guy by Wednesday.  That would be great.  But we haven‘t heard anything to give us any indication yet. 

COSBY:  What‘s your reaction as you look at these photos, too, the photos that were released of the suspect going to the ATM and the picture of the vehicle?  What goes through your mind when you see it?

SOUERS:  Just horror.  Just—you know, it‘s tough for us to watch. 

COSBY:  I‘m sure.  The solicitor has been very aggressive and trying to get to the bottom of it and help your family.  I‘m going to play a little clip of what he said about this case. 


BOB ARIAIL, GREENVILLE, S.C., SOLICITOR:  We think it‘s his first murder.  And the first murder was not a planned murder perhaps.  It was a sexual assault or aggressive sexual act encounter gone bad. 


COSBY:  Brenda, do you believe that Tiffany may have known her attacker in some form?

SOUERS:  No, I don‘t think she did. 

COSBY:  You don‘t?


COSBY:  Because one of her friends was on the show, and she thought that maybe she was going out on a date or going somewhere later that night.  What do you know about that?

SOUERS:  No.  No.  She was—she had been asked to go out with friends and had decided to stay home and watch a movie.  And she had told me the day before the three movies she had bought at the store.  So no, I think she had planed to stay in that evening. 

COSBY:  I want to bring into the conversation—we also have with us Warren Holsonback.  Nine years ago, his daughter—she‘s another Clemson University student—Stacy Brooke Holsonback, she was found strangled to death in a lake.  And that case remains unsolved. 

You know, Warren, as you hear about this new case, I‘m sure it just must strike a cord with you.  How tough is it for you to hear?

WARREN HOLSONBACK, BROOKE HOLSONBACK‘S FATHER:  We‘re very sad.  And Ms. Souers, please accept our condolences from our family to your family. 

SOUERS:  Thank you.

HOLSONBACK:  I know this is a terrible time you are going through. 

It‘s just—it‘s just unthinkable. 

SOUERS:  I know.  Thank you.

COSBY:  Is there anything else you want to say to her, too?  I mean, how tough—what advice do you have for any parent going through this, Warren?

HOLSONBACK:  As much as you can, stay on top of what‘s going on, you know.  I‘m very hopeful that this case will be resolved in a short period of time. 

COSBY:  That‘s great to hear.  Why do you feel that way, Warren?

HOLSONBACK:  Well, unfortunately, our case has not been solved yet.  Brooke was last seen by two—two Clemson classmates, Bryant Gallup and Jeff Dubnansky.  They had gone out, supposedly, off-roading.  The truck had gotten stuck.  The two guys supposedly got in a fight.  And when they got through fighting, they turned around and Brooke was gone.  And that‘s the last—you know, that‘s all that we know right now on our case. 

COSBY:  Warren, do you believe they covered every, you know, every “I”

dotted every “I” and looked in every hole?  I mean, because when you tell me that story, this is—you know, we weren‘t familiar with the case, unfortunately, years ago.  I wish we were.  I wish we could have helped.  But when we hear it, it sounds like there are still a lot of fishy questions. 

HOLSONBACK:  We were—we were very fortunate that Greg Reed was assigned to Brooke‘s case, and he‘s worked tirelessly to try to solve Brooke‘s murder.  Our state law enforcement have—have given indication that they think we have enough evidence to—to go forward in this case. 

COSBY:  Well, you do?  That‘s good.

HOLSONBACK:  However—however, we have not heard from our—from the current prosecutor in Brooke‘s case in a long time.  We haven‘t heard from the current one at all.  So...

COSBY:  Why do you think the delay, Warren?  Why—are you getting any sense that maybe with, unfortunately, all the attention, you know, because of this tragedy that‘s happened with Tiffany, two beautiful girls, maybe there—maybe there might be some good things to solve your case finally, once and for all?

HOLSONBACK:  But you know, I‘m hoping that maybe this will jog someone‘s memory cells, and something that they thought was irrelevant or trivial could be the one piece of information we need to solve Brooke‘s case. 

COSBY:  Do you believe there‘s any connection, Warren, between the two girls?  If we can put the pictures up, both beautiful girls, between your daughter‘s case and Tiffany Souers‘ case?

HOLSONBACK:  I‘m not—I‘m not totally familiar with Tiffany‘s case.  I really don‘t think there‘s—there‘s a connection, but I‘m not in law enforcement, and I‘m not privy to the information that they have at hand.  So I really can‘t say one way or the other for sure. 

COSBY:  You know, Brenda, do you think there may be any connection? 

Is there anything you want to say to Warren, too?

SOUERS:  I don‘t—I don‘t really think there‘d be a connection, just because of the time difference, but I appreciate his thoughts and prayers.  And, you know, we hope them a speedy, you know, recovery of their—their investigation, as well. 

COSBY:  Do you believe, Warren, in your case, that there will be justice for your daughter, Brooke?

HOLSONBACK:  Yes, I do believe there will be justice. 

COSBY:  You do? And Brenda, as you sit here tonight, do you believe your case will be solved, too?  It sounds like they‘re closing in?

SOUERS:  Absolutely. 

COSBY:  Do you get the sense from law enforcement that way, as well? 


COSBY:  Yes.  Do they give you that read?

SOUERS:  We‘re confident right now, yes, and we think it‘s moving along quickly.  Of course, you know, as parents, it‘s not quickly enough for us.  We want him to see him found immediately.  So we‘re just hoping that shows like this will help keep it in the media and keep the pressure on and, you know, we‘ll see it all wrapped up soon. 

COSBY:  Well, I hope both of you get the justice that you rightly deserve.  And hopefully, by putting out the word, somebody‘s memory will be jogged in both of these two very important cases.  Thank you both very, very much.

SOUERS:  Thank you.

COSBY:  Thank you.  And everybody, we‘ve got the tip line up there, too.  Let‘s put that up again, if we could, everybody, the tip line.  This is the number there if you have any information in the Souers‘s case.  You can also call that line, I‘m sure, for the case on Brooke, as well: 800-442-2746, extension 2. 

And still ahead everybody, Scott Peterson is just one of its residents.  We‘re taking you for a rare look inside San Quentin.  Wait till you see the home of some of America‘s most violent and notorious criminals. 

And next, is it possible that Olivia Newton-John‘s missing ex-boyfriend who many thought was dead is actually alive?  The shocking new details in the mystery. 


COSBY:  And we have more now on that breaking news in the case of a 5-day-old baby snatched in Texas.  Here she is.  Little Priscilla Maldonado has been found safe just a short bit ago just one day after her mother claimed that the baby was grabbed by a woman posing as a nurse. 

On the phone right now, is Lieutenant Roy Bassett with the Lubbock, Texas, Police Department. 

Lieutenant, tell us what happened. 

LT. ROY BASSETT, LUBBOCK, TEXAS, POLICE:  Well, we started working on a tip that came out of an afternoon briefing with detectives this afternoon.  One of our detectives began following up on the tip about 5 p.m., made contact with the husband of the suspect and inquired as to whether or not she‘d recently had a baby. 

And in talking with this subject, there were a lot of things that were just significant as far as inconsistencies in his story, down to even where the baby was born, what hospital, that kind of stuff.  This subject agreed that his wife would come to the police department and show the baby and show that everything was OK.  When that didn‘t happen in a timely manner, detectives went to the apartment, and marked units sealed off the apartment. 

The baby was actually found—she had been left under a car port at an apartment complex sitting in her car seat out in the open air.  I think it was about 102 degrees here in Lubbock today, so obviously, a very unsafe for a baby to be.  EMS responded very quickly. 

A lot of details are still—we don‘t have them nailed down.  As best I know right now, it seems like the suspect left the baby there under the carport and came to the police department to talk to detectives. 

COSBY:  Very interesting.  Thank you very much, Lieutenant.  We appreciate you giving us this (ph).

And the good news is, we‘re hearing the baby is safe and sound and in decent condition, which is always the best to hear.  Thank you so much.  We appreciate it.  And of course, anybody, if we have any more details, we‘ll try to bring that to you.  If we have any more word on the suspect or anything else in the case we‘ll bring it to you a little bit later on in the show. 

Meantime, he‘s been missing and believed dead for almost a year, but now, there‘s word that the ex-boyfriend of singer Olivia Newton-John could be alive. 

Patrick McDermott suddenly vanished during an overnight fishing trip last June 30.  As a grand jury gets ready to investigate his disappearance, new witnesses are now coming forward to say they may have seen McDermott in Mexico of all places, even within the past two weeks. 

LIVE AND DIRECT right now tonight is Louise Pennell.  She‘s a reporter with Channel Seven in Australia. 

Louise, tell us about the sightings of this guy. 

LOUISE PENNELL, SEVEN NETWORK AUSTRALIA:  Well, Rita, the Australian media have only been down in Mexico in the Cabo area for about two days now. 

And, already, they have had four separate people say that they saw Patrick McDermott in and around the Cabo area in the last three months. 

Probably, the most credible sighting was from the manager of a surf camp just outside of Cabo, who said that Patrick McDermott met a woman in her mid-to-late-30s who had blonde hair and was believed to be of German descent. 

Now, the woman had checked in to the surf camp about three days before.  Patrick McDermott met up with her.  they stayed the night and then took off the next day in a camper van. 

So, the—the mystery still remains of, where is Patrick McDermott? 

But the Coast Guard have refused to comment on this latest information. 

COSBY:  And speaking of, you know, boats, there is now some word—and we never heard this before—and we cover this, you know, story a lot when it first happened—that there was a stop that was never reported before by that boat, maybe giving him opportunity to get off?  Tell us about that.

PENNELL:  That‘s right. 

This seems to be a key piece of information that we didn‘t know after he was first reported missing.  The Freedom fishing vessel, which, of course, is the vessel that he went out on the overnight fishing trip on, it stopped for a refueling before it actually docked at the San Pedro marina.

So, the question still remains, did Patrick McDermott wait, get off at the San Pedro marina, or did he actually get off the boat when it was being refueled?  And mystery still remains around that, too. 

COSBY:  And, real quick, there‘s a grand jury, obviously, meeting. 

How many folks are they talking to?  Who is sort of one of the key folks? 

I heard word about a chef.

PENNELL:  Well, according to the marina manager, five of the crew members from the Freedom fishing vessel have been subpoenaed, one of them being the chef, because, of course, Patrick McDermott—McDermott paid for his galley bill on the 1st of July, which is the day he was reported missing. 

So, questions still remain whether he actually paid the galley bill himself or the chef just ticked off as his meal being paid.  We don‘t know that.  But given that there is a grand jury investigation, the Coast Guard and the DA‘s office are keeping pretty tight-lipped. 

COSBY:  All right.  Louise, keep us posted.  Interesting.

And live and direct now is Patrick McDermott‘s neighbor, Kathleen Padden.  Also with us on the phone tonight is the owner of that fishing boat—the Freedom, it‘s called—Frank Liversedge.  Patrick McDermott was fishing on the boat the night he vanished. 

Frank, you know, now we are hearing about this unscheduled stop or—or undisclosed stop, I should say.  Why didn‘t we hear about that there was this refueling stop before by this boat? 

FRANK LIVERSEDGE, OWNER, FREEDOM FISHING BOAT:  It‘s always been there.  No one ever...


COSBY:  Why didn‘t anyone ever mention it?  Was there a reason it was kept secret or did—you know, nobody mentioned it, it doesn‘t look, in any interviews. 

LIVERSEDGE:  No.  I can‘t tell you why it never came up.  I mean, the Coast Guard knew about it.  Everyone knew about it.

COSBY:  Could it have been an opportunity for him to get off the boat?

Describe for us sort of what happens at the refueling.  Is it an opportunity to sneak off the boat if no one was really watching closely? 

LIVERSEDGE:  Not very much of an opportunity. 

The dock is very much higher than the railing of the boat.  You have to climb up a ladder to get onto the fuel dock.  And to do that unobserved is next to impossible, because the guys are there right at the sides of the boat, filling the boat with fuel.


COSBY:  What if you are really making an effort?  Could you do it if you are making a big effort? 

PENNELL:  Well, you can do anything if you really try hard enough. 

COSBY:  Let me bring in Kathleen, the neighbor.

Kathleen, what do you think the chances are, because, of course, the suggestion is, now we are hearing these sightings in Mexico, again, you know, enough folks, four different ones, still being investigated, hearing about this stop.

What‘s the chance that Patrick McDermott staged this whole thing, took off to Mexico, Kathleen? 

KATHLEEN PADDEN, NEIGHBOR OF PATRICK MCDERMOTT:  Well, I‘m not surprised, because he was very athletic.  And I‘m delighted to hear that he has been seen, because I...

COSBY:  And, again, it‘s not—it‘s not sure.  These are just folks who say they saw him, but it still needs to be confirmed by authorities. 

PADDEN:  Oh, I—I just know he‘s—he‘s still alive.  I know this.

COSBY:  You do.  Why?  Why do you believe that? 

PADDEN:  I just—I can‘t see him ever leaving his son. 

I can‘t see it.  Chance was—was too important in his life to even consider dying or leaving or anything like that.  It‘s just, him heading north leads me to believe that he may be coming back to Chance and wants to see him.  And, some way, he will do it. 


COSBY:  You know, Kathleen, we know that his son would have gotten—we are looking -- $130,000, more than that, if his father was dead or presumed dead, you know, in an insurance policy, you know, as you talk about the love for his son.

PADDEN:  I understand that.

COSBY:  No, no, no.  But that‘s been—that‘s been reported out there. 

If Patrick loved his son so much, would he have staged his own death to give his son this money to do that kind of extreme thing? 

PADDEN:  Yes, he would. 

COSBY:  You believe that? 

PADDEN:  Yes, he would.  I believe he would. 

And then it would be—there would have to be some kind of an understanding that Chance knows that his dad is still alive.  And I think that Chance right now—I think he is 14, maybe, 14 or 15.  And, so, there would have to be, like, six more years of his—his disappearance. 

But I think that, some way or another, if Patrick could just, like,

walk by or drive by in a car, that he could see Chance, and he would just -

it would mean everything.

COSBY:  You know, Kathleen, have you talked to anyone in the family? 

Have you had a chance to talk to anyone? 

PADDEN:  No. , I haven‘t. 

But I have seen—I have seen his wife, when she was clearing the deck from the—from the house that he lived in on our street. 

And, then, it was—the house became vacant.  And the owner—I think his name is Eric (ph) -- sold the property.  And there has been a complete arrangement of the banana trees, and almost all the foliage is gone.

COSBY:  Right, just lots of changes...


PADDEN:  But it—the property has been sold.


PADDEN:  And there is a new couple that‘s in there. 

COSBY:  If you do see anything, Kathleen, if they come by the area of anything, please let us know. 

PADDEN:  I will.

COSBY:  And, of course, we are—we are hoping that he is alive, as bizarre as his story would be.

PADDEN:  I know he is. 

COSBY:  Well, thank you very much for being with us. 

PADDEN:  You‘re so very welcome.  Nice talking to you again.

COSBY:  Nice talking to you again.

And on to another story.  Well, it looks like Duke University‘s men lacrosse team is making a comeback.  They are going to start playing once again next season.  The team play was suspended, after some players were accused of rape at an off-campus party.  Now Duke‘s president says the team will have to follow strict rules off the field as well. 


RICHARD BRODHEAD, PRESIDENT, DUKE UNIVERSITY:  I am, I know, taking something of a risk in reinstating men‘s lacrosse.  The reinstatement is inevitably probationary. 

If we begin to see patterns of irresponsible individual or team behaviors familiar from the past, the athletics director and I will have no choice but to revisit this decision, and we won‘t hesitate to do so. 


COSBY:  And Duke‘s president says he made his final decision after the players wrote their own code of conduct, pledging to abide by their new team standards.

Meantime, the school is still searching for a permanent coach.  Former lacrosse player Mike Pressler resigned after the scandal broke out. 

And there is a lot more coming up here on MSNBC tonight.

Let‘s check in with Tucker to see what‘s ahead on “THE SITUATION”—



We will have much more on the Duke rape case, including on the president‘s comments, some of which I think you played just a moment ago. 

Also the question, “Is Superman gay?” a real question going around Hollywood. 

Plus, O.J. Simpson, is it him in the tape?  We will tell you.

COSBY:  Say it ain‘t so about Superman.  Thank you very much, Tucker.


CARLSON:  I—I don‘t judge, Rita. 


COSBY:  I don‘t either.  Thank you very much.

And, still ahead, everybody, we are going to check out the situation in the heart of New Jersey with five of the stars of “The Sopranos,” who join us. 

And, next, it‘s an interesting place to visit, but you certainly wouldn‘t want to live there, a shocking look inside the home of America‘s most notorious and dangerous killers—inside San Quentin, that‘s next.


ANNOUNCER:  If you have a story you want Rita to investigate, call our tip line, 1-877-TIP-RITA, or log on to our Web site, Rita.MSNBC.com.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We know their names.  We know their numbers.  We start to know their families.  We pass out their mail.  Many of these men are not here—they are not bad men.  They have bad habits.  They‘re not here because they‘re antisocial.  Sometimes, they are just too social.  But, then, again, we can never trust them. 


COSBY:  Well, it is one of the most infamous prisons in the country.

And, tonight, we are going to give you a behind-the-scenes look at what life is like at San Quentin.  “National Geographic” spent 30 days in the tough-as-nails compound that houses more than 5,800 of California‘s most dangerous prisoners, including killer Scott Peterson and Richard Allen Davis, who killed Polly Klaas.

Director Brian Jones and his crew got a raw look at what life is really like for prison guards and inmates alike, at one point, escaping one of the worst prison riots in San Quentin in more than 20 years.

Director Brian Jones joins me now. 

And, Brian, let‘s first watch some more of your very powerful look at San Quentin. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I say you come in here with your—with your game face on.  It‘s always a challenge.  You never know what to expect, but you always program your mind to face the worst. 

They have shot darts at us.  I mean, they made—they have manufactured darts out of—out of staples out of books.  But they have thrown urine and feces on us, or—or at us. 


COSBY:  You know, Brian, when you hear that, what surprised you the most about prison life? 

BRIAN JONES, DIRECTOR:  I think what surprised me the most is really what the guards had to deal with on a day-to-day basis, what you just heard from Lieutenant Samuel Robinson (ph).

They go through a lot.  And I—I really don‘t think they get the credit that they do, especially Lieutenant Vernell Crittendon and Officer  John Gladson, who you will see in the documentary. 

COSBY:  You bet.  I know both of them well.  I have been in there for a number of stories.  And those guys are real heroes.

You know, what about yourself?  How scared were you?  I mean, you are there on the verge of that riot. 

JONES:  Yes, you know what?  I always felt safe.  There were a couple of moments where I—I did feel uneasy. 

Specifically, there‘s a scene in the documentary where we go into West Block.  And there‘s—there‘s probably 200, 300 inmates there and, I‘m—

I‘m guessing, probably five to 10 guards.  So, at any moment, you are really outnumbered.  And I was—the thing I always was scared about was just waiting for something to be thrown down on me.  That was really the most frightening thing for me.

COSBY:  You know, let me play a little clip, because one of the other famous inmates, as we talked about, is Scott Peterson.  And this is the reaction that guards and also inmates had about him. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  What do you think the inmates would do if he was let loose on the yard over there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I believe they would hurt him seriously.  They would seriously hurt him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Oh, if we had a shot at him?  Oh, yes.  That‘s a trophy.  That‘s a trophy right there.  (EXPLETIVE DELETED) That‘s one for the mantel.  


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I would run a—run something within him.  I would break something off in him, a pencil, number two, preferably, sharpened down nice, just nice.  And when you get it in there, you break it off. 


COSBY:  You know, what kind of extra protections are given to Scott Peterson, given that, obviously, a lot of inmates want a piece of him, Brian? 

JONES:  Well, I know, after speaking with the guards, that he‘s—he is kept, obviously, in death row and specifically in an area where men have committed similar crimes as him, such as, you know, killing unborn children. 

COSBY:  You know, let me play also, gangs, a big part of the prison life, of course, everywhere, but a lot in San Quentin.

Let‘s play some more of your powerful special. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  People come in by counties.  And you go by your counties.

And they have one shot caller that rules the county that you‘re in.  And, basically, if any (EXPLETIVE DELETED) goes down, they the shot callers get together to have a—have a shot caller meeting.  And it gets determined what goes down, and whether we‘re going to fight or somebody gets stuck or whatever, you know what I mean, what—you know, what is going on.


COSBY:  You know, they do an incredible job, don‘t you think, Brian, at trying to separate the different inmates? 

JONES:  Yes.  They—they really do. 

And, you know, for anyone that‘s watching, one of the things I took out of this is that, if you have ever thought of committing a crime, go and spend about three minutes in San Quentin.  And you will—trust me, you will not be doing anything bad any time soon. 

COSBY:  You bet.

You know, Brian, great special.  And we‘re going to have a lot more of this tomorrow night. 

And, everybody, I want to make sure that you look at this special.  It is so powerful.  I have been in there a number of times in San Quentin, but what you guys put together is really revealing.  “San Quentin Unlocked,” it premieres June 18 at 9:00 p.m. Eastern time on the National Geographic Channel.  Be sure not to miss it.

And, again, we are going to have a lot more tomorrow night on this, a lot more look inside San Quentin.

And still ahead everybody: details on the Brad and Angelina baby photos.  Who will get them, and when can you see them?

And, next, I caught up with five of the wise guys who star in “The Sopranos,” who give me some hints of what really happens in the end.  They‘re coming up next.


COSBY:  And now tonight‘s celebrity dish, going inside the world of TV mobsters. 

Millions tuned in to last night‘s season finale of “The Sopranos.”  And with the episode still fresh in everybody‘s minds, I got a chance to feel like a mafia princess myself this afternoon.

I copped an interview with five main cast members.  And where did I hook up with these wise guys?  On a golf course, of all places.


VINCE CURATOLA, ACTOR:  Tonight, we ask the burning question:  Does Rita Cosby really have what it takes to be a made guy? 


COSBY:  I will tell you, it‘s a little bit of a surprise to see five mobsters at a golf course. 

STEVE SCHIRRIPA, ACTOR:  Well, you know, goombas play golf for the right—for the right occasion. 

COSBY:  Now, what happens if somebody cheats on the course?  What happens to them? 

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR:  Well, we encourage cheating. 

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR:  We encourage it.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR:  We encourage cheating.

CURATOLA:  As a matter of fact, we have a piece of every one of these purses out here today, 10 percent. 


COSBY:  And if they don‘t pay up? 

CURATOLA:  Oh, no, they will pay.  They will pay.

COSBY (voice-over):  Today, hundreds of golfers did pay to hang out with these wise guys, all for a good cause, a charity golf tournament to raise money for the Cancer Center at Hackensack University Medical Center, where Vince Curatola‘s father, Constantino (ph), was treated for many years. 

CURATOLA:  My cast mates, who are extremely generous with their time, all of them, by the way, even the ones you don‘t see here today, make this something a little special. 

COSBY:  They are also raffling a “Sopranos” Harley Davidson motorcycle for $1,000 a ticket, which could generate $1 million for the hospital. 


SCHIRRIPA:  Junior, you shot him. 


COSBY:  Let‘s talk about “The Sopranos.”  Final episode of the season last night.  Why do you think it‘s so popular? 

ROBERT ILER, ACTOR:  I think it has to do with something like this, like how we get along so well.  You know, I mean, we go to work and we love to see each other.  And we all—you know, we just have a lot of fun together.  And we get along.  And I think that kind of—you know, I think that shows on screen.  And I think people love to see that.

SCHIRRIPA:  He had a sex scene.  That‘s why. 


SCHIRRIPA:  His first sex scene last night.  He was a champ.  Did you see that, Rita?

COSBY:  I was very impressed. 

SCHIRRIPA:  All right, Rita.  All right. 

COSBY:  In fact, he didn‘t wait too long for the sex scene, as I recall, watching it.


SCHIRRIPA:  That‘s very nice.  She was impressed.  You hear that?


COSBY:  I think they said about five words to each other before the sex scene.  Am I right? 


ILER:  No, none. 

COSBY:  None.

ILER:  No words. 

COSBY:  The characters, as we just talked about, take so many interesting twists and turns. 

DAN GRIMALDI, ACTOR:  Well, I think, basically, the show reflects eve man.  I mean, Tony Soprano is every man.  He has got problems at home.  He has got problems on the job.  I mean, the mob milieu is the—is the environment in which the show is depicted.  But I think the writing and David Chase‘s creation is just terrific. 

COSBY:  Are you worried that, you know, you could be the first one to fall in the final eight episodes? 


SCHIRRIPA:  You know what?  I think—I think it was—this is getting to the final eight.  We are all going to be in the eight episodes.

CURATOLA:  Yes.  That‘s the most important thing.

SCHIRRIPA:  It‘s kind of goomba survivor, you know what I mean?  Like, it‘s the last guy voted off. 

COSBY:  Are you worried about being typecast always as mobsters? 

SCHIRRIPA:  Well, I‘ll tell you what.  It‘s better to be typecast than not cast.  It‘s been an incredible experience.


SCHIRRIPA:  I started the show in 1999.  It‘s been great.  I‘m not going to play an English professor.  I‘m a blue-collar guy.  I‘m going to play what I play, you know?  And that‘s just how it is, you know?

COSBY:  Is there a moment that you‘re most proud of, Arthur? 

ARTHUR NASCARELLA, ACTOR:  My most proud moment was being cast in the show, meeting these guys, becoming friends with everybody.  They accepted me here.  And that certainly was a big—a big bang in my career, let‘s say.

COSBY:  Some people say, your critics, that it became a little soft last season.  Does that mean that there‘s more violence to come in the final eight? 

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR:  You know, I don‘t think, even in the real life, that a guy gets killed every week. 

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: “The Sopranos” is about a family man. 

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR:  It‘s about people.  It really is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It‘s about a family.

SCHIRRIPA:  It‘s not just killing and shooting and violence.  Of course, that goes on in this guy‘s life.  But his family, his wife, his goomadas, (ph) these are all important to him.  And that‘s what you see. 

CURATOLA:  You know, I think—right.

COSBY:  Vince, what‘s the favorite thing you like about your character? 

CURATOLA:  You know, he is a control freak.  He wants everything a certain way.  I think he would have done very well back in the Roman legions, you know, which is really what the mob is crafted after, you know, the bosses, the lieutenants, the captains. 

COSBY:  But you‘re behind bars now, your character.  How tough is that?

CURATOLA:  Still, you know what?  A boss can still be very effective, no matter where he is.

COSBY:  Robert, what‘s your favorite part?  Your character keeps changing and growing.

ILER:  My favorite thing is probably, as I grow, my character gets to grow.  So, you know, as I get older, he changes.  And the other thing is probably his relationship with—with his father. 

COSBY:  You also have a new book out, “The Goomba Diet.”

SCHIRRIPA: “The Goomba Diet” book.

COSBY:  What‘s the diet trick? 

SCHIRRIPA:  There is no diet, obviously.  Look at me.  There‘s no diet.

But, you know, on the goomba diet, if you—if you want to—if you‘re putting—feel like you are putting on a few pounds, you find fatter guys to hang out with, you know?

COSBY:  Do you ever have real-life mobsters who come over to you?

SCHIRRIPA:  Well, real wise guys love the show.  Do you guys agree?


SCHIRRIPA:  We all met or know somebody.  I think crime is down Sunday nights.  They are all home watching the show, you know?



COSBY:  And our thanks to the wise guys, all for a good cause, the Hackensack University Medical Center.

And still ahead, everybody, find out why the pictures of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie‘s baby may get to the U.S. before the couple does.  That‘s next.


COSBY:  Well, they say a picture is worth 1,000 words.  But in Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie‘s case, a picture of their baby is worth millions of dollars.

And we may be getting a glimpse of baby Shiloh very soon.  Brangelina announced that they will release photos of their baby girl for a good cause.  The power couple will sell the snapshot rights of little Shiloh to Getty Images.  The money will go to charities that raise money to save the lives of newborns in Africa.  And we will have them here for you as soon as they come in.

And, in California, one mayor is causing chaos in one neighborhood. 

And it‘s all “Caught By Cosby.” 

The bear decided to take a casual stroll down the road, as it made its way through a Los Angeles suburb.  He climbed over some residents‘ fences to take a peek at their backyards.  And, after walking for miles in the heat, the bear cooled off by taking a dip in a neighbor‘s pool.  Imagine being that neighbor.

An animal control expert brought the bear in, but they plan to release him back into the wild at some point soon. 

And, coming up tomorrow, have you checked your date book or your Palm Pilot lately?  Tomorrow‘s date is 6/6/6.  It is making a lot of people very worried.  We are going to talk about what it means and have a live from Hell, Michigan.  That‘s tomorrow night.  You have got tune in for that.

And that does it for me.  Let‘s go to Tucker and “THE SITUATION”—


CARLSON:  Thank you, Rita.



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