updated 6/28/2006 12:36:32 PM ET 2006-06-28T16:36:32

Guests: Brad Blakeman, Leo Terrell, Tom Tancredo, Elbridge James, John Jacob

RITA COSBY, HOST, “LIVE AND DIRECT”:  And that does it for me.  I‘m Rita Cosby.  Have a great night.  THE SITUATION with Tucker starts now—Tucker.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST:  Thank you.  Thanks to you at home for tuning in for our preelection tour of the Northeast, coming to you all this week from Bethel, Maine.  Good to have you with us.

Tonight Rush Limbaugh gets caught at the airport with Viagra in his bag and someone else‘s name on the prescription label.  He could face criminal charges.  You may not like Rush, but that‘s not the point.  The point is why is the government harassing him over erection pills?  If it could happen to him, it could happen to you.

Also ahead, the Senate narrowly votes down an amendment on flag burning.  You‘ve been hearing all day how only Neanderthals could support such an amendment.  Maybe Neanderthals have a point, though.

And out in San Francisco, the centerpiece of a Muslim film festival is the notorious anti and anti-Semitic movie, “Valley of the Wolves: Iraq”.  Art or an outrage?  That story is just ahead. 

But first “The New York Times” is accused of treason.  It all started with a newspaper who revealed the existence of a secret government money tracking program designed to catch terrorists.  The president himself responded with outrage, singling out the paper for criticism.  Now the editors of the “National Review” want the government to pull the “Times” press tab, calling that story, quote, “a body blow to the war effort”. 

Lost in the roar is one obvious question: don‘t Americans have a right to know what our government is doing, particularly when what it‘s doing includes spying on citizens?  Here to answer that, Brad Blakeman is a former deputy assistant to President Bush.  He joins us tonight from Washington.

Brad, thanks for coming on. 


CARLSON:  I think there‘s a close call, and I understand why people are not upset, and I‘m not taking the time to decide unequivocally.  On the other hand there is a broader principle here, and it‘s one of the public‘s right to know. 

The administration is, in fact, eavesdropping in various ways on private citizens, and maybe that‘s a good thing.  Maybe it‘s not, but I am pretty certain I want to know as much as I can about it.  I think that‘s my right. 

BLAKEMAN:  That is not your right.  There‘s a lot of things that people would like to know, but they have no need to know, and they went to the ballot box.  They elected their representatives, and they elected their representatives to keep secrets.

And it‘s not up to the “New York Times.”  “The New York Times” wasn‘t elected to anything.  And who are they?  As far as I‘m concerned, that I know of...

CARLSON:  What do you mean who are they? They...

BLAKEMAN:  There are three branches, not a fourth branch.  The press is not an equal branch of government. 

CARLSON:  The press is named in the First Amendment, in the very beginning of the Bill of Rights.  Freedom of the press is enshrined in our Constitution.  So you may be annoyed by “New York Times”, and I am too, but the fact is, they have a right to print information they know to be true.

And in fact, I believe—I don‘t understand why the government‘s right to keep secrets from the public, in some cases arbitrarily, as you well know,  because you work there, comes from.  I don‘t believe the government has an absolute right to keep whatever it feels keeping secret, secret.  It doesn‘t.

BLAKEMAN:  Yes, it does.  When the go into that ballot box, elect their representatives, the president is charged, as well, under the Constitution to protecting and defending the United States.  And he can‘t do that...


BLAKEMAN:  If the press takes upon themselves to release secrets that can do harm to this country, can do harm to our troops.  People can die because of what the press prints, and that‘s not right. 

CARLSON:  Yes, that‘s true, though there‘s no way—that is true, but it‘s not—you know, it‘s not proved here that people are going to die because of this story.  So let‘s pull back a little bit on that.

BLAKEMAN:  We don‘t know that to be—you don‘t know that to be true at all. 

CARLSON:  OK.  We don‘t know that to be true.  I think the onus is on those who make the charges to prove it true.

Moreover, this information didn‘t come from the “New York Times”.  It came from the Bush administration.  This was leaked by employees of the administration.  So if we‘re going to be outraged about this information becoming public, where‘s the outrage directed at the Bush administration employees who leaked it?

BLAKEMAN:  We should be outraged at the leakers.  Absolutely.  We should go after them.

But we should also be outraged by the press, because they were asked not to print this.  They were given reasons why it would do grievous harm to this country, and they ignored it.  And that‘s just plain wrong. 

Secrets need to be kept.  We can‘t educate our enemy.  You know, at first they said the Bush administration wasn‘t doing enough.  Now they‘re saying they‘re doing too much.  The bottom line is we haven‘t been attacked because of these programs.

CARLSON:  The ludicrous criticisms that Bush‘s enemies level at him, some of them are absurd.  I agree with you.

But I appeal to you as a conservative to see the principle behind this, and the principle is this.  Unfettered government power can be scary.  Whether it‘s your friends or your enemies wielding it, it still is a threat.  Consider the RICO statutes, which were designed, as you know, to go after organized crime.

Lo and behold, they‘ve expanded over the years.  They are now used to go after companies, employers of illegal aliens, you name it.  Street gangs.  RICO has expanded in ways not foreseen by the people who wrote it.

We should be very wary about granting power to government it doesn‘t already have, don‘t you think?

BLAKEMAN:  Yes, I do.  But there is not an absolute right of the press.  Same as there‘s a curtailment of free speech.  I can‘t run into a crowded theater and yell fire.  I mean, there are certain sensibilities that have to be—that have to be thought through. 

And certainly the press doesn‘t have a right to print whatever they want when they want, whenever they want, when they could do grievous bodily harm to this country. 

CARLSON:  And I am not in any way suggesting they do, but I am merely saying that this administration does not have a blank check to say every time it‘s challenged on something, “Look, it‘s for our own good,” because in fact, they‘ve squandered the trust in some ways that people, including me, had in them. 

No WMD‘s were found.  Or no...

BLAKEMAN:  There was some WMD found. 

CARLSON:  I know.  Sufficient to justify this war.

BLAKEMAN:  We didn‘t go to war on WMD.  We went to war, Tucker.  And you know this. 

CARLSON:  Look, pal, I lived in Washington at the time.  I covered this day in, day out.  I‘m merely saying...

BLAKEMAN:  We went to war because Saddam violated 15 resolutions by the U.N., and that‘s why we went to the war. 

CARLSON:  I believe—I thought I‘d educated you on this in previous shows.  My point is this, bad.

BLAKEMAN:  I‘m not a very good student of yours.

CARLSON:  We don‘t—we don‘t—we don‘t have to believe every single thing this administration says, even if we are conservatives.  Even if, like you, we‘re Republicans.  We can say, “Hold on a second.  You‘re still the government.  We have a right as citizens to question you.  We still have that right.” 

BLAKEMAN:  But “The New York Times” in leaking this had no proof whatsoever that it was an illegal program.  To leak something—to know something is a lot different than leaking something to expose something.  They exposed nothing other than a legal program which is helping to keep our country safe.  That‘s wrong. 

CARLSON: All right.  Brad Blakeman from Washington.  I feel like I‘m—I feel like I‘m making in-roads with you, Brad.  I feel like I‘m helping.  And maybe I can help more next time you‘re on. 

BLAKEMAN:  No, no, no.

CARLSON:  Brad, thank you.  Thanks.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  People at customs were nice as they could be.  They just didn‘t believe me when I told them that I got those pills at the Clinton Library gift shop, and they told me at the Clinton Library gift shop that they were blue M&Ms.


CARLSON:  That, of course, was Rush Limbaugh on his radio show earlier today, making light of the news that airport customs officials found Viagra, the dreaded election pill, in his bag.  There was not his name on the prescription.  The government does not think it‘s funny.  And Rush Limbaugh could be charged. 

That‘s fine with my next guest.  He thinks Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite and a fraud.  Leo Terrell is a radio talk show host in Los Angeles, KNBC.  He joins us tonight from L.A.  Mr. Terrell, thanks for coming on. 

LEO TERRELL, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Thank you for having me, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Look, I know you don‘t like Rush Limbaugh.  I‘m actually not a big Rush Limbaugh fan, but it‘s kind of irrelevant.  There‘s a principle here, and the principle is this.  Government ought not to be wasting its time bothering private citizens with their hard on pills.  OK?  This is not a crime.  And to harass Rush Limbaugh over it may bring you momentary joy, but it could be you or it could be me or it could be any American.  This is scary.

TERRELL:  Absolutely wrong.  Rush Limbaugh, Tucker, is under a plea bargain.  Rush Limbaugh is on national—national radio, and his credibility is at issue.  Rush Limbaugh has an 18 month plea bargain that said I‘ll be good.  I won‘t doctor shop any more pills.

Rush Limbaugh had pills in his position that were not prescribed to him. 

CARLSON:  So what?

TERRELL:  I‘ll tell you what.  Rush Limbaugh...

CARLSON:  Do we really care?  Do we really care?  We‘re at war with al Qaeda.  We care about his Viagra?  I mean, try to think—I know you like to see your political enemies in trouble.  But try to think broader here.  Try to think in terms of principles and the freedoms that we as Americans enjoy.  Is this a good thing for America?  No, it‘s not.

TERRELL:  Let me think about that.  Yes, because Rush Limbaugh has placed himself above the law, Tucker.  He comes on the air every day talking to people about what is right, what is wrong, take the high moral ground.  Rush Limbaugh is in a plea bargain.  We want to make sure Rush Limbaugh does not place himself above the law.  I am asking Rush Limbaugh...

CARLSON:  Really?

TERRELL:  Yes.  Right now he‘s...

CARLSON:  Slow down there, Mr. Terrell.  You seem like a pretty self-righteous character yourself. 

Have you every taken illegal drugs of any kind?

TERRELL:  Absolutely not.  Absolutely not.  Rucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh pled out.  I‘m not subject to a plea deal.  Rush Limbaugh has an 18-month report card.  He failed today.  He failed his report card because he‘s in possession of drugs that do not belong to him, regardless of the nature of the...

CARLSON:  Is that true?   Would you consent to a search of your property?  Of course not, because you‘re not a moron.  Hypocrisy is not—in not a reason for the government to jump on you. 

TERRELL:  Tucker says Rush Limbaugh pled out.  I am not stuck to a plea deal.  He has a report card, and he failed his report card because he is in possession of drugs that do not belong to him, regardless of the nature of the drugs.  Rush Limbaugh is not above the law, Tucker Carlson. 

CARLSON:  Take a deep breath and consider the following idea.  Liberals, some of the few good things that they have done is they‘ve done in the last 20 years, they‘ve reminded us to have sympathy for people all to have sympathy for people with chemical dependencies, alcoholics, drug addicts.  Liberals are always going to them, you know what?  This guy‘s got a problem.  It‘s a physical addiction.

And I actually applaud liberals for doing that, because those people do deserve compassion.  Where‘s that compassion now?  You don‘t like the guy.  Your compassion isn‘t real.  It‘s all phony.  It‘s all situational compassion. 

TERRELL:  And let me flip that over.  Conservatives like Tucker Carlson want law and order.  Mr. Limbaugh broke the law.  Conservatives like you should be saying, “Mr. Limbaugh, you‘re not above the law.  We believe in law and order.  When the heck are you going to...


CARLSON:  Wait a second.  I‘m actually not a law...


CARLSON:  Wait a second.  If you watch the show you will often see me taking the opposite side from prosecutors and judges and police officers.  I think people have a right to do pretty much whatever they want, as long as they‘re not hurting other people, OK?  And I think the government should just back off and but out, and I don‘t care if you‘re Rush Limbaugh.  I don‘t care if you‘re Bill Clinton.  Back off if my view. 

TERRELL:  It‘s not a question of who we are.  It‘s a question of one law that serves all people, Tucker.  And what I‘m telling you and what you‘re ignoring is Rush Limbaugh is under a plea deal.  He cannot place himself above the law.  And then to mention Clinton, what a copout. 

CARLSON:  You sound like Ken Starr all of a sudden.  Oh, how soon you forget.  I never thought that the objections to the Starr report were on principle. 

TERRELL:  I‘m a fair minded citizen.

CARLSON:  Is that true?  OK, fair enough.  “You‘ve got illegal Viagra, go to jail.”  Having unauthorized sex is fun.

OK.  Come on.  Good luck, Mr. Terrell, thank you so much. 

TERRELL:  My pleasure. 

CARLSON:  Still to come—thank you—how will the immigration issue influence this year‘s congressional elections?  And is the influx of illegal aliens putting Americans in moral danger?  Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo will be here to answer those questions after the break. 

Plus, an anti-American movie is set to premiere at the Muslim Film Festival in San Francisco.  If liberals are so liberal, why are they championing the most illiberal religion of all?  We‘ll debate it when THE SITUATION returns. 


CARLSON:  Still to come, anti-immigration hawk Tom Tancredo stops by to discuss his new book, “Mortal Danger: The Battle for America‘s Border and Security”. 

So you thought Al Gore making out with Tipper was creepy.  Well, you did.  Wait till you hear some sex talk from Senator Joe Biden.  Stay tuned.


CARLSON:  Welcome back.  A new book raises frightening questions about America‘s future, suggesting this country is facing an identity crisis that could destroy us, but it‘s not just about illegal immigration.  It‘s about what‘s going on within our borders.

The book is called “In Mortal Danger: The Battle for America‘s Border and Security”.  And the author is a good friend of this show. 


CARLSON:  Joining me now from Washington, Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado.  Congressman, thanks for coming on.

REP. TOM TANCREDO ®, COLORADO:  It‘s a pleasure, as always.

CARLSON:  In your book, you described illegal immigration as a threat to our culture, not just our security but our culture.  What do you mean by that?

TANCREDO:  We are pulling ourselves apart as a nation.  We are separating, we are balkanizing.  And immigration, legal and illegal, but of course it‘s illegal immigration is an exacerbating factor, because you‘ve got a lot of people coming to this country, a lot of them illegally, of course, who they don‘t want to be Americans.  They‘re coming for other reasons, and we do not encourage ...

CARLSON:  Hasn‘t that always been the case?


CARLSON:  You always hear people say that America is rejuvenated, is renewed, by wave after wave of immigrants to add to their great melting pot of ours.   How is this wave different?

TANCREDO:  If I could put a face on this for us, think about the War Churchills of the world.  Right?  I mean, the people in this country who really do dislike America.  And he‘s just a face, but of course there are many aspects of it throughout our society. 

And they are intent of kind of divide and separating, and eliminating the kinds of things that held us together as a culture, held us together as a society.  Today there are relatively few things that do hold us together, and there are lots of things pulling us apart. 

CARLSON:  So what are we going to do about it?  I mean, you‘re at sort of the forefront.  You are literally, I believe, at the forefront of the anti-illegal immigration forces in Congress.  But what‘s the final outcome going to be?  Are we going to have a wall?  I mean, what‘s going to happen this year?

TANCREDO:  Well, this yes, probably we‘re not going to get a bill this year, but in the bigger picture, Tucker, in terms of how to handle this problem of the Balkanization of America, you‘ve to do a lot of things.  I start with the president of the United States. 

He has got to articulate a vision for America.  We need a Reaganesque, for you—I mean, somebody who articulates a vision of America, and starts to hold us together as a society.  It starts with the president. 

You want this president, you want President Bush, to articulate an abstract vision of America? 

TANCREDO:  I know, I know.

CARLSON:  That‘s not going to happen

TANCREDO:  Yes, probably not. 

CARLSON:  So, let‘s just shelf that idea.  What else is going to happen, do you think, to stop illegal immigration this year?

TANCREDO:  We have to actually make them—we have to do something that forces the administration to actually enforce the law.  Crazy, at as it sounds. 

CARLSON:  Aren‘t there enough people in Congress, and the Utah‘s congress again t forcing the administration to get serious about this?  No mean, it seems to me most prominent Republicans are on the president‘s side.  They don‘t want to enforce  immigration law.

TANCREDO:  Things are changing.  People have made their voices known to my colleagues, and believe me, I mean, you look at the Bill Mowbray race, you look at the race in Utah, going on tonight,.  I mean, you know this is a very close race, the canon race in Utah.  It‘s based entirely on immigration related issues.  He‘s running against Congressman Towman in the primary.

And you have the president of the United States, the first lady making calls into the district for cannon, of course, because they want the status quo.  But they are so concerned about it, that you‘ve got the president involved in a primary like this.  This is something that is really quite amazing. 

And I‘m telling you it shows that there‘s a change going on behind me there in the Congress of the United States.  And in the House, yes, we‘ve got the votes to stop it.  The Senate, well, it‘s a little dicier. 

CARLSON:  This to me would be the acid test: any Democrats who have hardened their position on immigration?  If there is, in fact, a groundswell of public opinion against illegal immigration, and I hope there is, then you would see canny Democrats start to moderate their views on it and start to sounding more like you.  Have you seen that?

TANCREDO:  In the Senate we‘ve seen a couple of Democrats—Democrat votes against it.  We never would have thought in a million years them as being opposed to it. 

In the House, we had, if I remember correctly, 37 or 38 Democrats vote for the House bill, which was the tough bill, the enforcement only bill.  And very interesting little factoid there, eight of the nine Democrats who had touchy races voted for the tough bill. 

So you bet things are changing.  Look at the governor of New Mexico.  Look at the governor of Arizona.  These are Democrats who spent half of their careers, you know, inviting illegal immigrants in, all of a sudden now saying build a wall, send the troops, you know.  Let‘s do anything that we can. 

CARLSON:  We‘ll be watching your book sales, and your presidential campaign.

TANCREDO:  That‘s right.  Did we talk about the book?

CARLSON:  Yes, we did. 


CARLSON:  I hope you win the nomination.  Thanks, Congressman.

TANCREDO:  Thank you, Tucker. 


CARLSON:  Still to come, the infamous Willie Horton television ad that helped sink the 1988 presidential campaign of Michael Dukakis is back in the news tonight.  This time it‘s got Democrats angry with GOP Senate hopeful Michael Steel.  We‘ll tell you why after the break. 

Plus, the Senate falls one vote short in its attempt to pass an amendment banning flag burning.  Liberals are delighted.  They shouldn‘t be.  We‘ll tell you why when THE SITUATION returns. 


CARLSON:  Tonight‘s “Under the Radar” segment comes to us from Montgomery County, Maryland.  That‘s where Republican senatorial candidate and current lieutenant governor Michael Steel is turning conventional wisdom on its head. 

For one thing, he‘s a black Republican, and that‘s still a contradiction in terms for many in the so-called civil rights establishment.  For another, he recently attended a fundraiser hosted by Floyd Brown.  Brown, you may remember, produced the legendary Willie Horton ad in the 1988 presidential election.  And some including local NAACP chapter, consider this unacceptable. 

Joining us now Elbridge James is the executive vice president of the NAACP in Montgomery County.  He joins us tonight from Washington.  Mr. James, thanks for coming on. 


CARLSON:  Now, you know what‘s going on here.  You‘re holding Michael Steel to a much higher standard because he‘s black.  There has been plenty of white candidates who have gone to fundraisers with Floyd Brown, and you haven‘t said word one about it.  And Michael Steel, you‘re mad because he‘s a black man, going to this.  And that just seems an unfair standard to me.

JAMES:  Not for our community.  Michael Steel says he‘s one of us.  He‘s coming from our community.  He claims to be a new Republican with new ways and new ideas yet is falling back in the same old bind.  This is where he‘s supposed to be a compassionate Republican not going to uncompassionate people.

Because Brown, United Citizens for Political Victory Fund, all of these folks have no agenda that supports helping the needy and the disadvantaged. 

CARLSON:  First of all, that is totally untrue.  I know Alice Castianes (ph) quite well, and that‘s a totally mischaracterization of him.  But more to the point, what do you mean that he is one of us?  I don‘t know what that means.  He‘s an American.  He‘s a Republican.  He‘s running for office.  You don‘t own him.  You‘ve got no claim on him.  It‘s really none of his business what he does.  What do you mean he‘s one of you?  I mean, what does that mean?

JAMES:  No, he touts himself as a new wave black Republican, a new wave black individual fighting for freedom and justice, and yet he goes out and uses the same tricks. 

Also in the past, he has turned around and made promises to us in the past to help out and look for us in our community, and he has forgotten everything he has promised. 

CARLSON:  OK.  Look.  I cannot speak to that.  Let‘s look about one of the tricks you claim he‘s using now, the Willie Horton ad.  Now that ad, which has gone down in history as somehow unfair, racist. 

That was, in fact, true in every regard.  It was an ad about a man called Willie Horton who was in prison in Massachusetts.  He was let out by Mike Dukakis, then governor.  And he went and raped a woman in front of her husband.  Now, whose fault was that?  Was that Floyd Brown‘s?  No, it‘s Willie Horton‘s fault. 

So I don‘t understand what‘s so disgraceful about telling the truth about what Willie Horton did?

JAMES:  I‘m sure in Massachusetts, you cam found someone of another racial difference.  There are plenty other folks that could have been used to send the same message.  That was race bating and in fact inflamed the senses and fears of white America about black America.  And it set us back in race relations. 

CARLSON:  Wait a second.  It happened.  So the truth doesn‘t set you free?  Is that what you‘re saying?  Telling the truth about what a guy did is somehow wrong because of his skin color? 

I mean, grow up.  I mean, he did it.  He raped a woman.  I‘m sorry.  Maybe you could have found a white guy who did it.  Maybe you couldn‘t, but the fact is, this guy did it, so why is it dangerous to tell the truth? 

JAMES:  No, you made a political statement.  You could have put on the air a white man who, in fact, murdered his wife and pregnant—who was pregnant with child and said how husbands need to be responsible.  That‘s the same type of thing that could have been said.  You chose the fact to make a race out of an issue, and that is clearly wrong.

CARLSON:  Again, the ad, I totally reject that.  The ad was about Michael Dukakis and his furlough program, not to bring you back lo these many years in 1988, but again, nobody‘s ever contested the truth of anything in that ad. 

And I believe, as I‘m sure you do on some deep level that it‘s OK to tell the truth.  We can handle it in this country.  We can make our own decisions.  And there is no reason to call people racist for speaking what is, in fact, true. 

Back to Michael Steel.  So he goes to a fundraiser with this guy.  He accepts donations from people you don‘t like.  It does seem a little like blacklisting to call him, in the McCarthyite sense, to call foul because the guy‘s supporters espouse things that you don‘t like.  I mean, what kind of standard‘s that?

STEEL:  It‘s a continued pattern that Michael Steel is in.  When the governor went to an all-white country club.  He didn‘t say anything about it.  When in fact, Bennett said statements about black children, black babies and crime, he did not say anything about the one on his show.  When he talked about Strom Thurmond, he didn‘t admit that Strom Thurmond was a racist and did more harm for blacks than—almost single handedly than anyone else in the state. 

CARLSON:  Since you brought up Strom Thurmond, I‘m sure you‘re an active Democrat.  I wonder what you think of the fact of the senior senator on the Democratic side in the United States Senate, Robert Byrd, was a KKK recruiter, not a member, a recruiter, for the Klan.  Does that bother you, since we‘re going back 50 years now and you brought it up?  How do you feel about that?

JAMES:  Strom Thurmond to his dying day was a segregationist. 

CARLSON:  OK.  You‘re not answering my question.  You‘re just fine with it.

JAMES:   I will answer your question.  With Byrd, Byrd admitted that he made a mistake, and Byrd has worked for over 40 years to correct the errors that he‘s made as an early person (ph).

CARLSON:  All right.

JAMES:  Strom did not.

CARLSON:  OK, OK.  He‘s a Democrat so I guess that‘s OK. 

JAMES:  No, it‘s not.

CARLSON:  I appreciate you coming on.  It‘s not OK with me, so I‘m glad we‘re on the same side of that.  Thanks a lot, very much. 

JAMES:  Thank you, Dan (ph).

CARLSON:  Still to come, if you thought dirty politics was hard to stomach, wait until you see politicians talk dirty.  Ew.  Our “Top Five” most awkward sexual advances by men in office.  Cringe-making.  Don‘t miss it.

Plus, a Utah man running for Congress is convinced Satan himself is working against him.  Did good conquer evil?  The election results are trickling We‘ll have the latest with the candidate when THE SITUATION returns.


CARLSON:  Still to come, Christians can‘t hold a rally is San Francisco but Muslims can hold a film festival there with anti-American movies.  Sounds like a double standard. 

Plus, Star Jones opts for a change of “View”.  Details in just a moment.  But first, here‘s what else is going on in the world tonight. 


CARLSON:  Welcome back to THE SITUATION, live tonight from the great state of Maine.  We turn not to a man who until moments ago didn‘t know Maine was a state.  In fact, he believes there are three states in this union: New York, New Jersey and Las Vegas.  He is, of course, “The Outsider”, ESPN Radio and HBO Boxing host Max Kellerman. 

MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN RADIO:  I‘m coming around on Connecticut, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Good, Max.  You‘re a very open minded man. 

The United States Senate today rejected by a single vote a proposed constitutional amendment that would have banned desecration of the American flag.  The 66-34 vote fell just two votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass an amendment.  The Supreme Court ruled in 1989 and again in 1990 that flag burning is protected as free speech by the First Amendment. 

President Bush supports a constitutional ban on flag desecration, and he called today‘s vote unfortunate.  The proposed amendment was seen by most as a Republican effort to fire up its conservative base for election season. 

Believe it or not, Max, I think I‘m coming around to the president‘s side on this one.  I don‘t know.  We don‘t have many sacred symbols left in the United States.  One of them—maybe the only one left is the symbol of our civic religion, the American flag. 

There are a lot of things that we don‘t allow.  Hate speech, for instance, is essentially illegal, and that definition changes all the time.  There are a lot of things you can‘t do or say.  And I don‘t know, defending the flag, keeping it from being desecrated, it doesn‘t bother me. 

KELLERMAN:  Tucker, don‘t back off your libertarian instincts now.  I‘m shocked that you would take this position.

Look, there is no better way to honor the flag, the American flag if you‘re an American, than burning it.  And I‘ll explain.  Well, first, is it free speech or not?  Is it protected under the First Amendment?  Yes, duh.

How do you get rid of an old, tattered flag?  You burn it.  I mean, that‘s accepted, traditional, legal practice.  You burn an old tattered flag.  So you can only not burn it if you mean—if you‘re making a statement by it.  Therefore, it is an expression, and you are infringing upon freedom of expression.  In fact, to even have a vote on this is unconstitutional.  Congress shall make no law.

CARLSON:  I am shocked that I am coming around to this position, too, and I agree.  It is inconsistent with a lot of the things I believe. 

However, there are two reasons.  One, every kind of smart person, all the people I work with, Ann the kind of in the know upper west side decent liberals, many of whom I really like, are appalled at the idea that the Neanderthals in red America could support a flag burning amendment.  Therefore, you know, I kind of it. 

I feel about this as I do about Ann Coulter or the flag amendment.  I‘m not in love with the actual Ann Coulter, but I love how mad it makes the left, exactly.  It‘s my protest.

And second, I don‘t know.  It‘s OK to have idiosyncrasies in your law.  We have a lot of them.  And this is the one thing you can‘t do.  It‘s good to have absolute standards of behavior.  Maybe this should be ours. 

KELLERMAN:  This above all things, Tucker, you know what I love?  When I see these idiot Muslim extremists in the Middle East, and there are so many of them there, burning American flags.  I think you idiots, you fools, you are not free to burn your flag in your country, but we are free to burn that same flag that you have in ours.  We are free to do that.  We can burn any flag we want in this country.  That‘s why you would rather be here. 

CARLSON:  Burning their—burning their flag in their country, that‘s our job. 

Well, speaking of Muslim extremists, it‘s not quite as glamorous, but the Muslim film festival is every bit as obnoxious.  Among the movies being shown at this weekend‘s event in San Francisco is “Valley of the Wolves: Iraq”.  It‘s a Turkish film starring such American movie rejects as Gary Busey and Billy Zane.

It depicts American soldiers acting like pigs.  It also shows a Jewish-American doctor cutting out the organs of Abu Ghraib prisoners and selling them, to pander to stereotypes common to the region. 

Actually I have nothing against the Muslim film festival, Max.  I wouldn‘t ban it, obviously.  I just want to know why San Francisco officials wouldn‘t allow Christians to rally in the city a couple of months ago, but they‘re happy to let Muslims do so now.

And here‘s my theory: the left has the most to fear from Islamic extremism, and yet it‘s the left that defends it.  When the mullahs take power in the Unite States?  Who‘s the first person who‘s going to be nailed to a tree?  Not me.  It‘s going to be—it‘s going to be the left.  It‘s going to be—it‘s going to be gays, and the people from the ACLU.

Why do they defend people who hate them?  I don‘t get it.

KELLERMAN:  You can say it, Jews.  You can say it.  That‘s—you‘re absolutely right about that, Tucker.    

CARLSON:  I‘m not saying to you—what I‘m saying.

KELLERMAN:  But no, but you‘re right.  That‘s the first—you know, if the mullahs take over the first people to get it, homosexuals and Jews.  The point is...

CARLSON:  Well, that is true.

KELLERMAN:  You‘re right.  And, in fact, you know, the film which shows a Jewish doctor taking out organs, it‘s unbelievable.  This from the Middle East, the part of the world which in typical tradition, the most foul tradition, commits a crime and then accuse—denies that they did it and then accused Jews of committing the crimes, destroying the trade center, which is like common belief among school children in the Middle East.  It‘s an outrage. 

Here is the defense.  The Christian rally that they wanted was a religious political rally.  This is a cultural festival, which in we may not like.  If they try to have a Christian film festival, I assume that they would be able to. 

They would be attacked by the board of supervisors.  Here is the bottom line.  The threat to our way of life comes not from Chris ante, at least in 2006, it comes from radical Islam, there‘s something wrong with you. 

The problem with the left, and you articulate it often, is that power corrupts, so power corrupts, absolutely, and therefore the left believe if you are powerful, it‘s bad.  And only the weak be good.  And that is the central problem with the left of this country; reflect in KOIS. 

KELLERMAN:  For somebody on the left. 

CARLSON:  Thank you, Max.

Now to in a heated congressional race in Utah, one Republicans are watching closely to gauge opinions on illegal immigration. 

Businessman John Jacob, who favors a tough stance on illegal immigration, he is putting up a valiant fight in the primaries against five.  The results show he is trailing in the polls by more than 15 points, and not bad for a man who says Satan has been hindering his campaign. 

And can you tell us, do you know where exactly the race stands at this moment?

JOHN JACOB, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE:  I don‘t.  We‘ve had, I guess, some early voting that has come in, and the best that I understood five minutes ago was 44, 55 for him, but only one percent reporting. 

CARLSON:  I wouldn‘t be surprised if those turn out to be the numbers since he had, as you well know, President Bush and his wife, Laura Bush, on his side.  Mr. Cannon, Congressman Cannon had the president and first lady making phone calls on their behalf. 

That‘s odd behavior for those who aren‘t following politics farewell.  That‘s pretty strange in a Republican primary in Utah to have the president weighing in.  Why is the president taking your opponent‘s side?

JACOB:  Well, I would say that it has to do with his immigration stance, and what he wants to have accomplished.  Chris has been his point man in the past, and I guess he‘s supporting that person right now. 

CARLSON:  Are you—you must be offended by this?  I mean, you‘re a Republican. 

JACOB:  No, I like the president, I like the president, and I don‘t think he said anything against me.  He‘s just supporting Chris. 

On the other hand, there‘s a nice part about this, and no matter how powerful he is, he doesn‘t vote in the third district, so fortunately the voters will pick that. 

CARLSON:  And Satan doesn‘t vote in the third district—the devil himself doesn‘t vote in the third district either, but you said recently you believed the devil was working against you in this campaign. 

JACOB:  You‘re absolutely right.  I shouldn‘t have said that.  The devil made me do it. 

CARLSON:  The devil made you do it.  Do you believe that Satan has been working against you?

JACOB: No, it‘s adversity that happens.  Any politician gets it.  Obviously, I haven‘t been a politician.  I‘ve been a businessman, and for 10 months I‘ve had more adversity than I‘ve had in the last 10 years. 

Every rock that they could look under to find out anything that they might be able to use against me has been looked under, and the fortunate thing, all it did was get me name recognition.  You know, people tease about just make sure you spell my name right, so I guess they put the sign behind my head so anybody would know exactly how to do that, right?

CARLSON:  Right.  The implication from your comments, though, was that there were spiritual forces at work, spiritual forces at work, do you believe that?

JACOB:  Yes, I do.  I feel like I have a very strong faith, and I feel like there is a devil and a heavenly father, and each one of these weigh in at times, and I guess the rest of the world doesn‘t like that. 

And as far as politics are concerned, it should be left out.  So from now on I will leave it out, and from now on, adversity will happen.  I feel like that will be something that continues, and that‘s the way I‘ll explain it. 

CARLSON:  All right.  John Jacob, running for Congress for the third district in Utah.  Not all districts reporting.  Good luck tonight.  Thanks, Mr. Jacob. 

LEVY:  Thank you for having me on. 

CARLSON:  Thanks.  Coming up tonight on THE SITUATION, politicians are masters of the photo opportunity, but Bill and Hillary had no trouble staging a happy marriage.  Where do they fall in our list of awkward political romances?  They are not alone.  Stick around to find out.


VANESSA MCDONALD, PRODUCER:  Coming up, two teenage girls use MySpace.com to plan an armed robbery.  We‘ll tell you how they did it.

Plus, another television titan is forced out of a job.  A farewell to Star Jones when THE SITUATION returns in 60 seconds.


CARLSON:  In tonight‘s “SITUATION Crime Blotter”, two teen girls, one 14 and one 15, have been arrested and charged with armed robbery after they allegedly set-up a man they met on the networking web site MySpace.com. 

The Jacksonville, Florida, man says he went to an apartment building to meet a woman he met on MySpace who he believed to be 18 years old.  When he got there one of the girls put a gun to his head and demanded he empty his pockets.  The man told the teenagers he forgot his wallet, and they let him go.

Here‘s an idea.  Don‘t meet teenage girls at random apartment buildings, you creep. 

What is up with Naomi Campbell and her hired help?  Yet another maid has come forward to press charges against the supermodel.  Gaby Gibson filed suit against Campbell in New York, accusing her of civil assault and personal injuries, among many other things. 

Meanwhile, Campbell was in court today to face charges she threw a cell phone at a different employee during a fight over a missing pair of blue jeans.  Campbell calls the allegations, quote, “completely untrue.”  Yes.

And once great Guns ‘n‘ Roses lead singer Axl Rose was arrested in Stockholm, Sweden, early this morning after he allegedly bit a security guard on the leg. 

Witnesses say Rose got into a drunken brawl with a woman and then chomped down on the leg of the man who tried to break it up.  Rose faces charges of assault, damaging property and threatening police.  Way to go, Axl. 

When it comes to considering a bid for the White House in 2008, Senator Joe Biden‘s slogan might very well be “make love, not politics.”  The Democrat from Delaware says he thinks that he‘d make an effective chief executive, but he adds, quote, “I‘d rather be at home making love to my wife while my children are asleep.” 

Senator Biden need only hearken back to the days of JFK and Bill Clinton to realize that sex in the White House is, indeed, possible.  Some leaders, after all, won‘t let a hardy sexual appetite stand in the way of their political ambitions.

In tonight‘s “Top Five”, we go undercover to expose a few uncensored examples of politics and lust gone haywire.


CARLSON (voice-over):  Sure, politics makes for strange bedfellows, but perhaps even stranger are those awkward moments of public affection between a politician and a bedfellow. 

August 2004, New Jersey governor Jim McGreevey drops a bombshell.  This married man and father or two announces he‘s resigning from office, but wait, there‘s more. 

JIM MCGREEVEY, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR:  I engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man. 

CARLSON:  That man, McGreevey‘s former homeland security aide, later filed a sexual harassment suit against the governor.  Strange bedfellows indeed. 

GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER ®, CALIFORNIA:  When I am governor, I will prove to the women that I will be a champion for the women. 

CARLSON:  A major role reversal for Arnold the politician in 2003, because when he was Arnold the movie star, he was famous for his boorish advances on his leading ladies.  I. 

SCHWARZENEGGER:  And I have things that won‘t abide (ph) which I thought then was playful.  But now I recognize that I have offended people.

CARLSON:  In the winter of 1997, then President Clinton and first lady Hillary decided to get away from the hustle and bustle.  Let‘s not forget the interns and Beltway politics.  But prying eyes captured this rare moment of staged public intimacy between Bill and the misses on a St. Thomas Beach.  Talk about romancing the stone. 


CARLSON:  Madison Square Garden, 1962, President Kennedy gets quite a birthday surprise when his reputed paramour takes the stage and demonstrates exactly why some politicians like it hot. 

MARILYN MONROE, ACTRESS (singing):  Happy birthday, Mr. President.  Happy birthday to you.

CARLSON:  Determined to distance himself from his boss‘s philandering reputation, Vice President Al Gore plans a clean-cut image for his White House run in 2000.  But the family guy thing kind of backfired when voters find Al‘s open affection for Tipper a bit hard to swallow. 

TIPPER GORE, AL GORE‘S WIFE:  He‘s the man I love in a way that you may not have seen him before.

CARLSON:  Maybe, but did we ever really want to see Al Gore this way?


CARLSON:  Still ahead on THE SITUATION, a little Fourth of July safety reminder.  Fireworks and mannequins don‘t mix.  Today, the most entertaining pyrotechnic display you‘ll see all year when we come right back.


CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Time for the “Cutting Room Floor.” 

Willie Geist, once again, did not make the cut for our road trip to the Bethel Inn here in Bethel, Maine.  He is back at MSNBC world headquarters. 

WILLIE GEIST, PRODUCER:  I‘ve learned not to take that personally, Tucker, when you don‘t invite me.  Did you notice I‘m at the big boy table today?  Look at this set. 

Last night the numbers actually show that I was scaring viewers by my giantism.  It was frightening, actually, to people so they put me back at the big boy table today. 

CARLSON:  Good, I‘m glad.  I‘m glad there was actually a reason for those numbers.  Thank you for that. 

Well, sad news tonight.  I can‘t believe that I‘m actually saying this, but here goes. Star Jones is leaving “The View”.  It‘s like a punch in the stomach, isn‘t it?  Jones announced on the show today that she will not return as a co-host next year.  She got a standing ovation for her nine wonderful years of service to “The View”. 

It is believed Jones was forced out by the upcoming arrival of Rosie O‘Donnell, and she told “People” magazine that she felt like she was fired. 

GEIST:  She deserved better.  And I have late breaking news, Barbara Walters telling the Associated Press she felt, quote, “betrayed” by Star Jones surprise announcement today, so there is some feel feuding over at “The View”. 

And at a time like this, Tucker, you just hurt for the whole “View” family.  I mean, I would just make a plea to the ladies, Jay Behar, Hasselbeck, whoever else is on the show.  Let‘s not flush nine years of chemistry and wonderful togetherness in one day.  Let‘s not do it, guys. 

CARLSON:  I know.

GEIST:  The show is too good. 

CARLSON:  It‘s like when Farrah Fawcett got booted off “Charlie‘s Angels”.  The team was never the same again.

GEIST:  That‘s right.  You‘re not going to replace Star Jones, but...

CARLSON:  I agree.

GEIST:  ... circle the wagons and move forward.  Yes.

CARLSON:  Well, the Consumer Safety Product Commission put its annual horror show in Washington today to remind us of the danger of fireworks around the Fourth of July.  The commission blew the heads and limbs off a bunch of mannequins to get the point across that we should leave fireworks to the professionals, unless we want to lose our heads and limbs, too.  Happy Fourth of July, everyone. 

GEIST:  That‘s a subtle little display, isn‘t it, Tucker?  I think the warning on the label would suffice. 

Now I have a few observations here about what we saw.  I have never seen twins, my Fourth of July celebrations, twins interjecting bottle rockets into each other‘s stomachs.  I‘ve never seen that.

And also, the guy who had his hand blown off, well, that didn‘t look good. He remains so stoic afterwards.  He‘s like it didn‘t even bother him.  It‘s amazing.

CARLSON:  You know what, Willie, I want to know where to get firecrackers like this.  They don‘t sell them in my town.  If I knew where to buy the, I‘d buy a gross of the.  I‘d buy a whole pallet of them.  They look awesome.

GEIST:  Well, keep the twins in mind when you use them.  There they are. 

CARLSON:  I will.

GEIST:  Just remember, do not inject bottle rockets into your twin‘s stomach.  That‘s all we ask.  Be smart this holiday season. 

CARLSON:  One of the most memorable images of the Iraq war so far is this photograph of exhausted Marine Lance Corporal James Blake Miller taking a break from combat in Fallujah to have a cigarette.  He became known across the country as the Marlboro Man, after the photographer was published in the “L.A. Times” in 2004.  Miller later told another paper he wished he could have given his new wife the big wedding she deserved.  Americans responded by putting up $15 grand for his dream wedding, which was held on June 3. 

Nice story?  Well, three and a half weeks later, Miller has filed for divorce.  He says the marriage is irretrievably broken.

GEIST:  Tucker, do we need any more proof—this is definitive proof that marriage is, in fact, worse than war.  He could make it through Fallujah.  He couldn‘t make it through three weeks of marriage.  That‘s all you need to know. 

CARLSON:  You‘re a cynical man, Willie. 

GEIST:  That‘s what you pay me for. 

CARLSON:  Willie Geist. 

GEIST:  All right, Tucker.

CARLSON:  From headquarters.  Thanks.

That‘s THE SITUATION from Bethel, Maine, tonight.  Thanks for watching.  We‘ll see you back here tomorrow.  Good-night.



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