Guests: Peter King, Jane Arraf, Tom O‘Neil, Duane “Dog” Chapman, April Beyer, Jennifer Berman, Kennedy, Jill Dobson
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Right now in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, Scotland Yard and the CIA sweeping three continents tonight. They‘re in search for more clues and a terror mastermind. Where is he? The latest on the plan to murder thousands at 40,000 feet. You know, the dry run was supposed to be today and the terror attack next Wednesday. We‘re going to give you the very latest in the breaking news.
And then, breaking news in the United Nations tonight. The U.N. says, Give peace a chance. They‘re stepping in just now to stop the war in Israel and Lebanon. But will it work?
And later: Dog the bounty hunter—he‘s on the hunt in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. Rita‘s going to get him to reveal a side of himself you won‘t even see on his TV show.
Welcome to Friday night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required, only common sense allowed.
We‘re going to have all those stories in a minute, but first—terror in the sky. Tonight, intelligence operations across the globe are fanning out over three continents. They‘re on a desperate search for clues in the airline bombing plot that targeted 10 airplanes and 2,500 U.S. and British citizens. Evidence now in our possession shows that the terrorists had planned their dry runs today on United Airline flights and set next Wednesday, August the 16th, as the day that thousands of Americans would be incinerated at 40,000 feet.
Scotland Yard and the CIA are tracking the money trail and telling us tonight just how close these terror cells were to pulling off the next 9/11. In all, British authorities arrested 24 suspects, all between the ages of 17 and 35, with two being women who were snagged in the dragnet.
You know, the plot unraveled because of allies and informants in the
most unlikely of places, Pakistan and the London Muslim community. They
helped us out a great deal
NBC‘s chief investigative correspondent, Lisa Myers, is in Scotland Yard tonight, and she‘s got the very latest on the suspects, the investigation and what‘s going to happen to us next—Lisa.
LISA MYERS, NBC CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Joe, tonight intelligence sources tell NBC News that an intense manhunt is under way for five suspects, and there are concerns that as many as 20 connected to this plot may still be at large.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Today, forensic teams swarmed homes of the suspects, and the British government took the extraordinary step of releasing the names of 19 of 24 arrested and also froze their assets. One suspect was later released. A father whose three sons were arrested was devastated. A friend spoke for the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody who knows his three children will swear on the Quran, will—anything, to say that they are innocent, without a shadow of a doubt. They went to pray. They went to pray, and that‘s their guilt (ph).
MYERS: Those arrested here range in age from 17 to 35. Nearly all are of Pakistani decent. Most are middle class. Two are said to be women, one of them pregnant. Don Stewart Whyte converted to Islam only six months ago.
JAN-SHER BHATTI, SUSPECT‘S FRIEND: He‘s not radical. When you see him, he was just—he did look up Islam a lot, like, recently, but he only looked it up in, like, the way that affected his life.
MYERS: Amjad Sawar had a listing on a dating Web site. He claims to be kind and honest. The suspects came from different parts of Britain, the largest cluster from London, another group from a London suburb and two from the industrial city of Birmingham. Counterterror officials said some members of the cell did not know each other. Sources say the common link was that each group communicated with the ringleader in Pakistan.
Today, Pakistani authorities identified the ringleader as Rashid Rauf, a British citizen whose brother also was arrested in Britain.
ROGER CRESSEY, NBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Rauf is not a senior al Qaeda operative, but he‘s typical of the type of facilitator so important for terrorist operations inside the United Kingdom.
MYERS: Pakistani officials tell NBC that one critical element of the investigation was the arrest of a man near the Afghan border about 10 days ago, an arrest that the Pakistani ambassador to the U.N. says triggered a chain reaction.
MUNIR AKRAM, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Some of the information that we obtained through this investigation led us to the actions that are now being taken.
MYERS: Intelligence sources say another key break was that the U.S. intercepted communication between the plotters in Pakistan and Britain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Intelligence sources say that while some plotters received explosives training in Pakistan, there is no evidence they met with any senior al Qaeda commanders there—Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Thank you so much, Lisa.
Now, thousands—I said 2,500, some estimate as many as 4,000 lives were targeted by these Muslim terror suspects, who were not from Pakistan or Iran or Iraq, but ominously, as you heard from Lisa, from England. Now, I spoke to Congressman Pete King of New York, who‘s also the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, to talk about the terror and the bloodshed that America and London just barely avoided.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER KING (R-NY), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: This was an extremely serious threat, as serious as any that‘s face the United States. If it‘s carried to fruition, the death toll could have been greater than September 11. Now, this was—in scope, it was absolutely horrific. And also, it was operational. I mean, they were ready to go on that day. Now, they may not have done it for several more days or several weeks, but they were ready to go.
SCARBOROUGH: Some Democrats, and also commentators, political commentators, and talk show hosts, are skeptical, suggesting that maybe that this was just some ploy by the Republicans and the president and Tony Blair‘s government to justify their actions in the war on terror. How do you respond on that?
KING: Joe, that is absolutely disgraceful. Thousands of American lives were saved because of action by the United States and Britain. These are murderers out to get us, and any Democrat who wants to attack the United States rather than point the finger at the terrorists who are trying to murder us really, they disgrace themselves, their office and their party.
SCARBOROUGH: What do you say to Americans who‘re maybe asking tonight whether yesterday‘s events ended up being a victory for us in the war on terror or a defeat? How do you score it?
KING: It‘s a big victory, Joe, and it‘s a victory we can enjoy for about 10 second, and then we realize we‘re still in a war that‘s going to go on for many years. Al Qaeda is weakened from what it was five years ago. But this is—Joe, it is a victory, but it shows the world is still dangerous.
SCARBOROUGH: But it‘s terrorism in our back yard. We‘ve been hearing for years now that if we only were kinder to Arab regimes in the Middle East, showed them the American way of life, that somehow, we could soften them, we could moderate them. Here, of course, are Islamo-fascists in our own back yard. I mean, you look at the last attack in London, you look at this plot, most of them are home-grown. So how do we solve that crisis?
KING: I think we have to stop being politically correct. We have to
stand up and say it. For instance, I am outraged that in our country, you
have Muslim groups not denouncing the terrorists but denouncing President
Bush for using the word Islamic terrorism—I mean, Islamic fascism. I
mean, that‘s what it is. And these Muslim groups seem to have a greater
allegiance to some overall Muslim cause than they do for the United States
certainly, in Britain, they have an allegiance to terrorism, rather than to Great Britain.
I think it‘s important for our leaders and our commentators and our people in the media to call this what it is. We are at war with a militant type of Islam, and it‘s up to Muslims in this country, it‘s up to Muslims in Britain and through Europe to stand up and speak out against this, but unfortunately, they don‘t.
SCARBOROUGH: “The New York Times,” as well as other Democrats, are attacking George Bush, saying that he and Dick Cheney and the Republican Party are using these plots to gain political points. “The New York Times” editorialized about it today. How do you respond to those charges?
KING: Again, absolutely disgraceful. The fact is that the Democrats have been attack—the Democrats and the liberal media—everything that is wrong in the world, they blame it on George Bush. They say he‘s not winning the war on terrorism. They say the war in Iraq is hurting (ph) against (ph) terrorism. They say he‘s the main cause of terrorists coming against us.
The Islamic terrorists hate America for who we are and what we stand for, and I think the sooner all Americans realize that, especially the Democrats, who should be ashamed of themselves, we‘ll be a stronger country.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Congressman Peter King, keep up the great work. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
KING: Thank you, Joe. It‘s always a pleasure. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: And of course, Democrats are very angry. They‘re angry for a few reasons. First of all, Dick Cheney yesterday, after this plot came out, actually said that Ned Lamont‘s victory in Connecticut somehow would help the terrorists. And so Democrats obviously took great offense at that. Also, soon after the terror attack plot was revealed, you had the Republican National Committee sending out fund-raising e-mails, in effect talking about the terror plot, talking about winning the war on terror. And again, it upset the Democrats and I think probably upset a lot of people in middle America, too, because it looks like you‘re trying to use this terror attack for political purposes.
Hillary Clinton—I mean, Hillary Clinton even came out and said she would never take Dick Cheney seriously again. So unfortunately, here we are at a time of war, a time when we‘re fighting for our lives, and our politicians can‘t even get together and work to keep us safe.
Now, tonight, we‘re getting details, new details about exactly how these suspected terrorists had hoped to execute their devastating attacks. John Ray from our partner ITN has this chilling report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN RAY, ITN (voice-over): A top secret security operation led police to these doorsteps. What is now under way inside is a search for the hard evidence to prove they are indeed crime scenes, that in unremarkable corners of Britain, unimaginable horrors were planned.
JOHN REID, MP HOME SECRETARY: This is an ongoing operation. We are not in the least bit complacent. We will go where any further evidence takes us. We will take whatever further action is necessary.
RAY: American sources say terrorists planned a dry run or rehearsal sometime this weekend. If that had been a success, they could have mounted their attacks for real just a few days later. ITV News understands detectives have unearthed a so-called martyrdom video featuring one of the suspects, and it‘s thought the group have close at hand access to bomb-making ingredients.
In fact, MI5 began its surveillance operation after a tip-off more than a year ago. Police joined them last December, snooping on every aspect of the suspects‘ lives. Some reportedly made trips to Pakistan, and it‘s alleged met al Qaeda leaders. And it was a series of arrests that in part triggered the police sweeps here.
More details are emerging about the biggest alleged terror plot since 9/11, with plans for three separate waves of attack. The first terror cells would board perhaps three planes, and once over the Atlantic, they‘d detonate their bombs. The explosions would down the aircraft, and in an ocean of wreckage, all forensic evidence would be lost. They‘d assume (ph) air travel would be suspended, but and when flights resumed, they planned a repeat of the operation, and then, if possible, a third. The result, public panic on a grand scale, terror in its truest sense.
So this was a plot with global ambitions, but it‘s in suburban Britain that it might ultimately be unraveled. John Ray, ITV News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: Boy, I tell you what, that is so frightening. And again, to think that today was supposed to be the dry run. They would be flying from London to New York tonight, and then if everything worked out all right, they would launch their deadly attacks next Wednesday. We were so close, so fortunate.
Still ahead, we‘ve got breaking news coming up next out of the United Nations tonight. The Security Council finally agrees on a ceasefire in the Mideast, but will both sides listen?
Plus, a surprise in Hollywood. Audiences are turning out to see a movie about 9/11. It‘s Oliver Stone‘s movie, minus conspiracy theories. Does it mean America is ready for it?
And later: You can run, but you can‘t hide from bounty hunter Duane “Dog” Chapman. Our conversation with him coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Breaking news tonight: The U.N. Security Council votes 15 to nothing to adopt a resolution that would end the month-long Israeli-Hezbollah conflict. NBC News‘s chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell has the very latest tonight from the United Nations.
ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Joe.
Tonight, finally, a unanimous vote in the U.N. Security Council, 15 to zero. This was a compromise, and it was unanimous because it was so watered down from previous resolutions that had been supported by the administration which called for a much stronger military force in southern Lebanon. This compromise will call for a cessation of hostilities but not an immediate ceasefire. There‘s no timetable. There‘s no deadline for the hostilities to stop.
Once the shooting does stop, a beefed-up U.N. security force and the Lebanese army are supposed to move south. At the same time, Israel is supposed to withdraw. Lebanon and Israel only agreed to this after a lot of pressure from the United States, particularly calls today from Condoleeza Rice.
Earlier, just before the vote, I talked to the secretary of state about this very fragile compromise.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The cessation hostilities will go into being, we believe. The Israeli cabinet has to consider this. The Lebanese cabinet has to consider it. Obviously, with any war, it takes a little time to wind down military operations, but both sides are anxious to see a cessation of the hostilities of the kind that has led to so much suffering for civilians.
MITCHELL: But even as the compromise was being worked out, Israeli tanks were preparing to move north in their threatened ground offensive. So it is not at all clear that this will really bring an end to the hostilities, but they certainly do hope so and hope to open up channels for an additional convoy of humanitarian aid once the major rocket fire stops.
So that‘s what the U.N. has accomplished over the weekend. Kofi Annan says he‘s going to try to get a better, firmer timetable, and then begin to talk about how to move those troops into the south so that Israel can really withdraw—Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Thanks so much, Andrea Mitchell. Greatly appreciate it.
For more on this breaking news, here‘s Pat Buchanan—he‘s MSNBC political analyst—and Jane Arraf. Jane, appreciate you being here tonight. I‘ve got to ask you, who disarms Hezbollah?
JANE ARRAF, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, if you‘re asking me, I think we‘re not talking about disarming Hezbollah. That‘s that big scary question that‘s put off a little bit in the future. What we‘re talking about now is stopping some of the most sustained violence since the creation of Israel and stopping this bloodshed. And that‘s basically why it took so long to reach that ceasefire that Andrea has just told us about.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Jane, if you don‘t disarm Hezbollah, aren‘t we going to have the same problem six months or a year from now?
ARRAF: Well, I think as the British foreign secretary put it, they‘re not trying to solve all the problems in the Middle East overnight. I mean, these are problems that have been years, decades in the making. But what this does do is it provides a credible effort for this ongoing violence to stop, if the Israelis and the Lebanese, as they‘re expected to, approve it, and for the Lebanese army, with the support of U.N. troops, to take control of south Lebanon again, which is a key part of anything going forward. So the big picture questions are certainly deferred, but none of those can be addressed with this violence going on.
SCARBOROUGH: Pat Buchanan, does the U.N. have the power to actually bring peace to this region? Obviously, there were some U.N. forces down there before. But can they do anything to stop this war now?
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think you got two mice going down to disarm the cat, and I don‘t think it‘s going to work, Joe. I mean, Hezbollah is not defeated. They put 3,000 rockets on Israel. They‘ve kept the Israeli army out of south Lebanon up to about three or four miles or something like that. The Israeli—“Ha‘aretz” is calling for Olmert to resign and quit. The conservative party, the Likud Party, wants new elections. They‘re howling. The military generals who wanted an invasion on the ground rather than the air war against Lebanon are on fire in Israel. The perception in the Middle East from this, from what I see so far, Joe, is Hezbollah fought the Israelis to a draw...
SCARBOROUGH: Pat, this...
BUCHANAN: ... the greatest force in the Middle East, and so they won the war.
SCARBOROUGH: Pat, this has been a—has this not been a disaster for Israel and the United States? And as you know, Pat, I‘ve long been one of the biggest supporters of Israel on any TV show or when I was in Congress. But I think this has been one of the biggest black eyes for Israel, and of course, by extension, the United States at a time that we just can‘t afford it in the Middle East.
BUCHANAN: Joe, in 1967, Israel knocked off Syria, Jordan, Egypt in six days, destroyed the air forces on the ground, bit off huge chunks of all three countries. Now they‘ve fought a state within a state to a draw. And this is the greatest army in the Middle East. You‘re exactly right. The perception that‘s all what counts, and the perception is that Hezbollah defeated Israel in southern Lebanon.
SCARBOROUGH: And Jane, that extends, actually—there‘s a nasty little parallel between the United States and Iraq and Israel in southern Lebanon, where you have these two great powers, one regional and one worldwide, that can‘t take down insurgents or terror operations.
And I want to ask you, Jane, what happened over the past three, four weeks, where at the beginning of this war, you had Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan criticizing Hezbollah, and now of course, you have everything in the Middle East criticizing Israel, and by extension, the United States.
ARRAF: Gosh, that was an interesting evolution, wasn‘t it. I mean, that was quite stunning when some of those countries came out criticizing Hezbollah. It sort of broke a barrier.
But what‘s happened in the meantime is 1,000 Lebanese dead. Obviously, we have to remember there have been Israeli casualties, as well, about 200. But 1,000 people dead, many of them civilians, many of them women and children. Ongoing pictures of people suffering without aid being able to through because of the air strikes, because of the assaults on the Lebanese infrastructure.
And more than that, Joe, I think there has been a feeling that this could engulf the Middle East. Officials and people on the ground are more worried...
BUCHANAN: Joe...
ARRAF: ... than they have been in years. Even Iraq hasn‘t had this effect.
BUCHANAN: Joe, the problem is that Israel fought the wrong kind of war. They let the air force take command. They tried to do what America did to Serbia. It didn‘t work. If they‘d let the ground generals run this show, I think, after five weeks, Israel would be victorious.
SCARBOROUGH: There‘s no doubt about it. And Jane was exactly right. We did break a barrier earlier in this war, when you had three Arab countries criticizing Hezbollah. Unfortunately, I‘m afraid it may take years to get back to that position where any government in the Middle East will have the guts to do that again. Pat Buchanan and Jane Arraf, thank you so much for being with us.
When we come back on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY: With one month to go until the five-year anniversary of 9/11, Oliver Stone‘s new movie about the World Trade Center looks a surprise hit. Does it prove that Americans are ready to watch these type of movies?
And up next, a parade fit for a king, more Elvis than you could ever want in tonight‘s “Must See SC.”
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Wake up Grandma. It‘s time for tonight‘s “Must See S.C.,” video that you just got to see. First up, Plano, Texas, where a pregnant pharmacist singlehandedly stopped a robbery at a CVS. the woman, who‘s due to give birth in about a week, fought an armed female robber, eventually got control of the gun. Even so, the robber and her partner got away.
Next up, we go to Hawaii, Volcanoes National Park, where a cameraman captured this amazing video of lava oozing out of craters there and into the Pacific Ocean. The Kilauea volcano is one of the most active on the planet, with more than 50 eruptions in the past two decades.
And finally tonight, Kansas City, Where Elvis has left the building and he‘s taken to the streets. Fans of the King were all shook up by the 19th annual Elvis parade. Nearly 2,000 people dressed up in wigs, capes, and of course, blue suede shoes.
Coming up: With the threat of al Qaeda front and center of our nation‘s mind, surprising ticket sales for a summer movie about 9/11. What it means for 9/11 and Hollywood is next. Plus, bounty hunter and TV star Dog Chapman on what the U.S. needs to do to bring the world‘s most wanted terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to justice. That‘s next on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Still ahead on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, first it was Oprah. Now Madonna is the latest celebrity crashing weddings. I think I‘m going to do that this weekend. Plus, a catfight on the cat walk. What was that movie? Two supermodels face off for the title of the body.
Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, those stories in just minutes.
Nothing like models catfighting. Meow.
But first, 9/11 comes to the big screen again. Oliver Stone‘s latest work, “World Trade Center,” premiered this week, pulling in more than $4 million on its opening night. The movie has gotten mixed reviews so far, and some industry experts were worried a film about 9/11 was too soon and its director, Oliver Stone, too controversial. So will viewers continue to flock to the theater to see it this weekend in the wake of yesterday‘s thwarted terror attacks? We‘re going to be talking about that in a minute.
But first, let‘s take a look at a clip of this movie that Hollywood is talking about tonight, because it‘s doing so well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What special equipment have we got down there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m prepared for everything, car bombs, chemical, biological, an attack from the top, but not this, not for something this size. There is no plan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can make it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There could be 50,000, 60,000 people in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Here with us now, Tom O‘Neil. He‘s senior editor of “In Touch Weekly.”
Tom, Hollywood was scared that this movie could flop simply because people may not be ready to talk about 9/11. Certainly, “Flight 93” got a lot better reviews than this but didn‘t bring in a lot of money. Why do you think this did so well on its opening day?
TOM O‘NEIL, “IN TOUCH WEEKLY”: Because it has what “United 93” didn‘t have. It has star power, and I think it has the proper focus. The problem that I had with and many other people had with “United 93” is that it was really done as an action-thriller movie. The message of it was: The government screwed up. The government screwed up. And you never really got to know the characters.
In “World Trade Center,” the focus is on the heroes here. You never see a plane hit a building. You never see a terrorist. You just see the heroes and how America struggled to deal with this tragedy, and that was the right way to do it.
SCARBOROUGH: And it certainly looks—it‘s certainly easier to have a hero that you know, like Nicholas Cage, that keeps you focused on the TV set. Let‘s take a look at another clip from “World Trade Center.”
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evacuate the tower. Who‘s coming? Step forward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got it, Sarge. I‘ll go. I‘m with you, Sarge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, all right. We got a team. We‘re headed into Building Five. The rest of you wait for Cass Maddux (ph). Follow me. Stay together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Boy, Tom, you‘re right. I mean, that‘s about heroes. I look at that, and I want to go see it. Let‘s talk about Oliver Stone, a controversial director. He shied away from conspiracy theories. Why?
O‘NEIL: Oh, he did not. That‘s what he‘s saying now. He‘s rewriting history again. What I find so amusing about this movie, Joe, is that initially, right after 9/11 happened, he was asked if he would ever do a movie and, if he did, what it would be like. And he said, “Oh, yes, I would do it from split perspectives, the victims and the terrorists,” just like this famous documentary called “The Battle for Algiers.”
Well, when Paramount got this script and they saw what a wonderful movie it was, and it was all done, they said, “Well, what this needs”—because it was an unknown screenwriter—“is a well-known expert director.” So they went to Oliver Stone after this was already done. He was not allowed to touch the perspective on it. So it combined his skills as a moviemaker and this wonderful script, but now he‘s taking all the credit for it.
SCARBOROUGH: And saying, “Oh, I wasn‘t going to put conspiracy theories in there anyway.”
O‘NEIL: Right, right, right.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, thanks so much, Tom O‘Neil. As always, greatly appreciate it.
O‘NEIL: It‘s good to be here. Thanks, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, let‘s move on and talk about a modern day Billy the Kid. That‘s what he calls himself, minus the gun. And for bail jumpers and bad guys, his bite is worse than his bark.
With literally thousands of fugitive captures, Duane “Dog” Chapman is the self-proclaimed greatest bounty hunter in the world. In the fourth season of his top-rated reality series on A&E, “Dog the Bounty Hunter,” has just begun featuring his marriage to longtime sidekick Beth Smith.
Not one to miss a high-profile event, MSNBC‘s Rita Cosby was part of the posse at Dog and Beth‘s wedding day in Hawaii. And this week, she sat down with the newlyweds and talked about their show that‘s a big hit and the happiness of tying the knot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RITA COSBY, HOST: Why do you think the show is so successful? Do you think people at home are going, “Go get ‘em, Dog,” you know, that fight for justice?
BETH SMITH, WIFE OF DUANE CHAPMAN: You know, I think that everybody at one time or another has been a victim. They‘ve had their car stereo stolen. They‘ve had their house broken into. They‘ve had their car stolen, for that matter, you know? Everybody wants to see the bad guy caught. They want to see the guy now.
COSBY: What a great feeling. Isn‘t it just a great feeling, when you get this guy who‘s been on the run for three or fours years? You look at his rap sheet. How does that feel?
DUANE “DOG” CHAPMAN, BOUNTY HUNTER: Oh, it feels fantastic. And some of the charges against these guys—we travel a little bit farther now than Hawaii, as you know—and one of the charges, we captured a guy for sexual assault against the helpless. So can you believe that? I see your eyes when I said that. Helpless, you could imagine what that was. And so to catch someone like that, you know, pure nothing but predator, you know, I mean, sometimes you say, “Thank God there is a camera here,” right, because...
COSBY: What‘s the toughest bounty you‘ve ever been on? You‘ve been on, what, more than 6,000...
(CROSSTALK)
CHAPMAN: Well, you know, the toughest one, the longest one and the toughest was Andrew Luster.
COSBY: The Max Factor guy.
CHAPMAN: The Max Factor guy. So I think that was the—he had the most money. He had the most connections. But yet sometimes, you know, the younger guys now, because, you know, there‘s new ideas. So I mean, they‘re all tough, but the longest one, I think, was Andrew Luster, right?
COSBY: What‘s the worst thing that‘s happened to you guys when you‘ve been out there? Aren‘t you scared when he‘s going out there?
SMITH: There‘s too much going on to really be scared, you know? You‘re on the line right then. So you don‘t really think about that. You can get your guy and get out of there.
COSBY: You‘ve had knives pulled on you, guns pulled on you...
SMITH: Oh, yes.
COLMES: What kind of things come out?
SMITH: Knives, guns, shanks. These box cutters, you just push a button and they‘re long metal things, and this, like, arrow-type thing comes out.
COSBY: Now, bounty-hunting is so much in your blood. Here it‘s the rehearsal dinner. You guys were finally about to get married. She‘s rolling her eyes, saying, “Finally,” after, what, 16 years. He‘s late, and he‘s on another hunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: Duane, the rehearsal dinner is in like an hour.
CHAPMAN: It‘s not in an hour.
SMITH: It‘s in an hour.
CHAPMAN: It‘s in an hour? I‘m going to go capture the last guy while I‘m single.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: I told him, “This better be a real bounty.”
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Or he‘s going to be the next fugitive, right?
CHAPMAN: No, she knew it wasn‘t a bachelor party. You knew it was a bounty.
SMITH: No, I didn‘t think it was a bachelor party, but I thought that you were...
CHAPMAN: What else could it have been?
SMITH: Because I thought you purposely took off at that time.
COSBY: Now, you guys are arguing...
(CROSSTALK)
CHAPMAN: And, where, I was going to run and never come back?
SMITH: No, not you‘re going to run. I thought you were just going to irritate me and not show up to the rehearsal dinner and then, you know...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Now, I see you guys are like a married couple. You‘re arguing like a married couple.
CHAPMAN: Oh, yes.
COSBY: How is married life?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAPMAN: With this ring, baby, I thee wed.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHAPMAN: There‘s something supernatural that happens, because, you know, that we know that the Bible says that we become as one. And the arguments now don‘t last as long because we‘re married. And, you know...
SMITH: If you pack your bags, you‘re going to unpack them?
CHAPMAN: I don‘t pack, and you know that.
(LAUGHTER)
Yes, you‘re coming home anyway, so, no...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: You go straight back, so why pack it?
COSBY: It‘s like a typical married couple.
SMITH: Exactly.
COSBY: Now, you had a tough wedding day. A few hours before the wedding—I remember I was there with you guys, and you found out the terrible news about your daughter...
CHAPMAN: Correct.
COSBY: ... being killed in an accident, drug-related.
CHAPMAN: Right.
COSBY: Tough to go through the wedding, right?
CHAPMAN: Well, yes, my 22-year-old—she‘s the stepmom—Barbara Katy is my first baby girl born. And she was the only child that didn‘t come. She told me—you know, she was having problems, so we had her baby for about a year. And she was starting to come out of the problem, straight-A student, and didn‘t have an I.D. to get on the plane to come to the wedding.
How do you tell a guy that, like you said, who‘s been with someone, lived together for 10, dated for 16 that, on that day, both of you, that the most tragic thing that could happen happened, right? So they told Beth first. And then, you know, I am still freaking. I mean, it‘s—I can talk about it easier. The more I talk about it, the easier it becomes.
COSBY: As you said at your wedding—and I thought this was beautiful—this was going to make your fight even tougher against drug addicts, the bad guys.
CHAPMAN: Yes. Yes.
COSBY: Because you believe, obviously, that played some role in your...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: ... taken one of our children.
COSBY: Are you more determined than ever to get these bad guys?
CHAPMAN: You‘re damn right. Excuse my language. We‘re more determined, and we‘re very more determined. And that‘s, you know, I mean, that‘s how we‘re handling it right now.
COSBY: I‘ve got one final question, because obviously in the news lately, Osama bin Laden still on the run, and lately Hassan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah, has been the big thorn in a lot of people‘s side in Lebanon.
CHAPMAN: Right.
COSBY: How do you go after these guys? They‘re still doing interviews. How come they‘re still fugitives? Everybody in the world is looking for them.
CHAPMAN: Every time we start talking about him or take out one of his guys, they send in a tape. You notice that? He‘s already fell for that trap.
So I think by antagonizing him, you know, poking him like a stick, which you have a mad dog that‘s chained up and you keep poking with a stick, that‘s Uncle bin Laden. And he‘s six foot—you know, how many guys over there are 6‘4” or 6‘5”?
I know there‘s a lot of teams that are hunting him down. Believe me, they are going to catch him. Believe they‘re going to catch him. But it‘s hard to get—when they get close to him, then his people take him somewhere else. When we Americans convince them he‘s not a god, he‘s a terrorist, that‘s why they have disease, that‘s why they‘re poor, then they‘re going to turn him over I hope very, very soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: And coming up, a new spin on an age-old question. How different are men and women? Forget Mars and Venus; we‘re talking about different galaxies.
But before we go to break, trouble on the French Riviera. A French paparazzi magazine got itself into hot water today by publishing a picture of this French politician scantily clad on the beach. The Socialist presidential hopeful donned the cover of the magazine wearing only a bikini and a pair of sunglasses.
Hey, Chris, thank God there‘s no pictures of me like that out there, right, buddy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, we‘ve managed to dig one up. T.J., can you show him?
SCARBOROUGH: Really? Oh, great. Wait a second. God, look at those legs. Get that picture down. You‘ve got to have a better shot than that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you‘re right. Actually, T.J., can you show the real picture of him? I don‘t want...
SCARBOROUGH: Show the real picture of me, exactly. That was—oh, my god. Those are man breasts if I‘ve ever seen them.
We will be back. Take that down now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I always knew my first time would be on a beach.
VINCE VAUGHN, ACTOR: First time? You‘re a virgin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
VAUGHN: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jeremy, we‘re going to be so happy together. I love you.
VAUGHN: I‘m sorry?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: That movie should have won 80 Academy Awards. Anyway, welcome back. Breaking news: Men and women are different. A new book says women have an eight-lane superhighway for processing emotions while men have a small country road.
The book, called “Female Brain,” also says men have O‘Hare Airport as a hub for processing thoughts about sex, where women have an airfield nearby that lands small, private planes. Are men and women really so different?
Here‘s Dr. Jennifer Berman, she‘s a relationship therapist. We have April Beyer who‘s a matchmaker.
April, let me begin with you. Are men and women really so different?
APRIL BEYER, MATCHMAKER: Hi, Joe. Yes, they are, and thank God. I do think we‘re different, and it‘s wonderful. I just find that in my life there‘s just too many women that are trying to bridge the gap of our differences by becoming more like men, which is the exact opposite of what we all should be doing.
SCARBOROUGH: But isn‘t that politically incorrect? That sounds like a—I mean, it sounds like we‘re going back to the 1950s where all men think about is sex and women couldn‘t care less.
BEYER: No, we do care about sex. And I don‘t think that being feminine is dumbing down or taking steps back. I think that the more women get back to their femininity, the quicker they‘re going to find love and relationships. I don‘t think it‘s taking a step back. In fact, all of the marriages that I‘ve personally put together have all been women that are very much alike. They‘re all bright, they‘re beautiful, they‘re feminine, they‘re sweet, and they‘re soft. So, yes, we come from different planets.
SCARBOROUGH: So, Jennifer, do you agree with that, we come from different planets?
JENNIFER BERMAN, MD, RELATIONSHIP THERAPIST: I think that sexually assertive women can still be feminine. And the point is, is that there are definitely gender-scripted differences in how men and women relate socially, sexually, intellectual capacity differences. So we‘ve known that for some time.
What‘s really interesting and what‘s highlighted in this book is that now we understand anatomically and why these changes and differences occur, what the areas of the brain are that are involved with empathy, and there are difference that exist. But, you know, whether women can have it all, we can have careers, have our families, and have great sex, and still, you know, hold our share, that it doesn‘t mean that...
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Jennifer, doesn‘t it in a sense though seem to be basically giving men a green light to do bad things when it comes to sex, because this book says basically we just can‘t help ourselves?
BERMAN: No, what it‘s doing is saying that—I mean, men are traditionally goal-oriented and focused, which allows them to focus on the task at hand, be it having sex. Women, the gatherers, are multi-taskers, are thinking about the kids, thinking about the work, thinking about the house, thinking about a whole variety of different things. And it‘s more difficult for us to focus.
One‘s not better than the other. We‘re just different, and understanding these differences and why is important.
SCARBOROUGH: Just different. And, April, I take it that you agree with that. And do you think that—again, you celebrate these differences, right?
BEYER: I do. Of course I do. I just think that, you know, when I sit down and I interview men and women, I have found that men are way more romantic than we women are. People will balk at that and say, “No way.” We love to be romanced. But men are way more romantic. And when men sit down with me, they‘re asking for things that are more about the soul of the woman rather than her portfolio...
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: ... those are men going to matchmakers. The regular men out there, I won‘t—I mean, saying that all men are romantic and all of these things, behaviors and qualities and personalities are individually defined.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. And, of course, though, we are very, very different. Thank you, Jennifer Berman. Thank you, April Beyer. It‘s so funny though we‘re so different. I think that‘s what the former president of Harvard got fired for saying. We‘ll be right back with “Hollyweird.”
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Time to take a Friday night trip to “Hollyweird.”
First up, Madonna the wedding crasher. British newspapers are reporting the material girl was eating with her husband, Guy Ritchie, in Rome recently and decided to crash a wedding taking place at the same restaurant. But the queen of pop was reportedly infuriated when the D.J. at the wedding started playing her hit song, “Hung Up.”
Here with me to break it down and all the latest from Hollyweird is Jill Dobson from “Star” magazine and Kennedy, host of the show “Reality Remix.”
Jill Dobson, what is with these Hollywood stars? You got Madonna, you got Oprah. Of course, this weekend, I‘ll probably be doing it. We all want to crash wedding parties. Isn‘t this just—it‘s pathetic. It‘s, “Look at me, look at me, look at me,” isn‘t it?
JILL DOBSON, “STAR” MAGAZINE: Right. I think that celebrities are surrounded by so many people always telling them how great they are that they end up having this idea that they are God‘s gift to the world. And if they were to show up at someone‘s wedding, that would be the greatest gift they could give this couple. So I‘m sure Madonna was well-intentioned. But for many brides, I think their wedding day is their one special day to really be in the spotlight. So I‘m not sure how the bride really felt about it...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: And, of course, they‘re the ones that are supposed to be the princesses on that day, and here comes Madonna.
Kennedy, what do you think about this new trend? You know, who‘s next?
KENNEDY, “REALITY REMIX”: Oh, you know, it‘s probably going to be Pam Anderson showing up somewhere, spoiling someone‘s great wedding in a white bikini, because she has to show off how great her life preservers are. Good god. If Madonna showed up at my wedding, I think I would be very upset, after, you know, I had a glass of champagne with her, and asked about all the details of her latest tour, and maybe read some Kabala books, then I would be very angry, because it would have taken the focus off of the bride.
SCARBOROUGH: Exactly, who‘s, again, supposed to be the princess.
KENNEDY: Amen.
SCARBOROUGH: And, Kennedy, what would make you even angrier at your wedding is if MTV decided to come in and say, “Hey, we want to do a reality series on your wedding.” Because we all know that, if MTV steps in, your wedding is doomed. Talk about the jinx.
KENNEDY: You‘re absolutely doomed. The only people who can escape the curse of MTV reality is the Osbournes. I mean, the Osbournes had been married for two decades before they got involved with MTV. You know, at least that. And so, of course, their marriage was able to survive. But unfortunately for Carmen and Dave, and Shanna and Travis, and of course Jessica and Nick, anybody who has a reality show about their happily married life, they‘re done. Done, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s over, no doubt about it. And I‘ll tell you who else is done is Heidi Klum and Elle Macpherson. Jill Dobson, a little catfight on the catwalk. Talk about it. This is the body battle where they‘re arguing on who should, of course, be nicknamed “The Body.”
DOBSON: Yes, Joe, this is going to be known as the great supermodel smackdown of ‘06. No, Elle Macpherson was nicknamed “The Body” by “Time” magazine in 1986, so she‘s held the title for 20 years. But all of a sudden, Victoria‘s Secret has these ads with Heidi Klum in them, and she‘s holding up this new bra called “The Body.” And she says, “They named this bra after me.”
And Elle‘s people are, quote, “flabbergasted” about it. And Elle has reason to want to state a claim to that name, because she has a workout video titled “The Body.” She also has a line of skin care products called “Elle Macpherson The Body,” so she‘s staking claim and saying, “That‘s my nickname, not yours, Heidi.”
SCARBOROUGH: And, Kennedy, in the remaining seconds we have left, as you know, actually the nickname “The Body” belongs originally to me, right?
KENNEDY: It‘s Jesse “The Body” Ventura.
SCARBOROUGH: Exactly.
KENNEDY: He was recently in a Victoria‘s Secret ad holding up a thong saying, “They named it after me.” I wouldn‘t want it after he‘s been running.
SCARBOROUGH: No, no. Absolutely not. I am speechless on a Friday night. I mean, Kennedy, thank you so much for being with us.
KENNEDY: Thanks, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Jill Dobson, greatly appreciate it. Have a great weekend.
That‘s all the time we have for tonight. We will see you on Monday.
But “LOCK UP: INSIDE ANAMOSA” starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
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