JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight, a special edition of SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, “To Catch a Predator.” Now, as you know, “DATELINE‘s” hidden camera sex stings have taken the country by storm, almost single-handedly putting the threat posed by sexual predators back on the front pages. Their undercover operations have busted more than 250 men across seven different states, from doctors to teachers, cops to clergy. And one phrase has managed to strike fear into any potential predators still out there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HANSEN, “DATELINE”: I‘m Chris Hansen with “DATELINE NBC,” and we‘re doing a story on adults who try to meet children on line for sex.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: But tonight, the stories you haven‘t heard. “DATELINE‘s” Chris Hansen‘s here for the entire hour, and he‘s going to take us through some of the most shocking busts “DATELINE‘s” made, and he‘s going to give us behind-the-scenes stories that you‘ve never seen. And he‘s the author of the new book, “To Catch a Predator: Protecting Your Kids From On-Line Enemies Already in Your Home.”
Hey, Chris, you know, your show has caught hundreds of men trolling the Internet for sex with underage kids, but one of the most infamous guys was a man that we know as “the naked guy.” Let‘s take a look at him and then get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANSEN: Could you explain yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m sorry.
HANSEN: Why don‘t you go ahead and cover up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly. I‘m sorry.
HANSEN (voice-over): The man‘s name is John Kennelly (ph). He tells me he‘s 29 and a bus driver. Then he changes it to a teacher.
(on camera): What kind of conduct is this for a high school teacher?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m sorry. I‘ve never done this before.
HANSEN: So you just woke up this morning and said, I‘m going to get involved in an Internet conversation with a 14-year-old boy, I‘m going to go to his house, strip naked and walk in with a 12-pack of beer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m sorry.
HANSEN: What would have happened, John, if I wasn‘t here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I probably would have chickened out.
HANSEN (voice-over): After doing a deeper background check on him, we find out he‘s neither a teacher nor a bus driver. His father says he‘s unemployed. And he‘s not 29, he‘s actually 43.
(on camera): Do you know that it‘s illegal to have a conversation on the Internet with the intent to have sex with a minor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(voice-over): You might think that this 43-year-old man who walked into our house naked, ready to meet a 14-year-old boy for sex, would be so humiliated after being caught literally with his pants down that he‘d never try it again. Yet we find him right back on line in a chat room the very next day.
(on camera): How can we be certain that this guy in this chat room is the same guy who walked into this house last night naked?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It‘s the same screen name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Same identical screen name he got busted on, Specialguy29.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s changed nothing.
HANSEN (voice-over): He‘s spotted by a Perverted Justice volunteer who‘s posing as a 13-year-old boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just checked the kid‘s pic.
HANSEN: Even these Perverted Justice veterans find what‘s happening hard to believe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He keeps talking, and that‘s just going to be beyond comprehension.
HANSEN: Yet he does keep talking, and again, the chat quickly turns sexual. And believe it or not, again he agrees to yet another date for sex. Our decoy asks if he wants to meet at McDonald‘s.
(on camera): What do you suppose the odds are that a guy like that would agree to another meeting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would have said zero last night after watching what happened.
HANSEN (voice-over): Well, Specialguy 29 defies the odds and agrees to meet. But first he confirms the meeting is not about food.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He really wanted to make sure it was about sex.
HANSEN: Sure enough, here he comes headed towards the McDonald‘s.
(on camera): I have been in television for 24 years...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just came to get something to eat!
HANSEN: ... and I have very seldom been at a loss for words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I just came to get something to eat!
HANSEN: But I don‘t even know what to ask you first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just came to get something to eat!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: Oh!
(LAUGHTER)
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m sorry, Chris. I will laugh. You can‘t. Every time I see that, I just—I am amazed he showed up the next day. All these guys tell you—they seem to tell you, It‘s the first time I‘ve ever done this, or, Oh, I came here just to talk this young girl out of doing these sort of things. Do you—does this book take us behind the scenes...
HANSEN: It does.
SCARBOROUGH: ... I mean, what happened with the naked guy and the rabbi, to explain to us a little bit more about the set-up for these situations?
HANSEN: Yes, that‘s exactly what we do in part of the book, Joe. I thought it was important to really give people a look at how this, first of all, came together, and what goes into it because there‘s a tremendous amount of effort and a number of very talented people helped put this together. You know, I get credit for because I‘m the guy who‘s on camera (INAUDIBLE) dozens and dozens of people, you know, including the folks at Perverted Justice and the people who put together these hidden camera operations. I mean, it just—it just wouldn‘t come together without them. And it‘s fascinating. The back story‘s fascinating.
SCARBOROUGH: Chris, at what point did you decide you needed to write a book about all the things that you‘ve been exposed to over the past year?
HANSEN: You know, I had a pile of information on my desk, and I would set it aside when I learned something that I thought was important, fascinating, of something that I thought parents should know about having to do with this whole on-line safety issue. And at one point, the piled got so big, I thought, You know, we don‘t have time often in this show to get into some of these areas.
And I thought it would be worthwhile to do the book so I could explore these areas—you know, punishment, treatment, inside the mind of a predator, collateral damage, you know, what happens to these guys when they get arrested, what happens to their wives and their kids, and perhaps most important, to distill the information I‘ve gotten from, you know, law enforcement officers, child advocates, you know, the Perverted Justice people and from looking into the eyes of 250 of these guys and to put this information together so that parents can get a road map, can get some great, solid ideas, some great ways to initiate a discussion with their kids to keep them safer on line.
SCARBOROUGH: You, of course, also had a sting in Flagler (ph) Beach, Florida, that was also fascinating. You actually encountered a “DATELINE” first where two guys showed up at the same time. Let‘s take a look at that clip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANSEN: I need to talk to you for a minute. Why don‘t you have a seat right there, please. What‘s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m sorry.
HANSEN: You‘re sorry for what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That I did this.
HANSEN (voice-over): And we‘re out of time because our next visitor is here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) stay low. The next guy is right outside the house! (INAUDIBLE) making the turn.
HANSEN: The result, a “To Catch a Predator” first, our decoy invites him inside.
(on camera): Why don‘t you come in over here and stand right over here at the bar? How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m good (INAUDIBLE)
HANSEN: Good. Good. Please come in. I want you guys to meet each other. This is Tennisboy213 (ph). And Tennisboy, this is Slavetomistresses (ph), right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: What are you doing here?
(voice-over): Actually, it‘s pretty clear to us what he‘s doing here and who he is. It‘s all in his on-line chat. Twenty-six-year Yazan Azfor (ph) uses the screen name Slavetomistresses, and that gives you an idea of what‘s on his mind. He‘s a former member of a Jordanian basketball team and now a student and personal trainer.
Like the previous man, Azfor chatted with a decoy who told him she was 13. But unlike Khan (ph), Azfor mostly wanted the girl to do things to him. We can‘t get too detailed, but we can say he prefers to be treated like a dog, and also a toilet. We‘ll have to leave it at that. He sends live video of himself naked and wearing a dog collar, along with a link to a Web site that illustrates what he‘s talking about.
So what‘s he have to say now that he‘s alongside another potential predator, like two guys at the bar?
(on camera): What are you doing here tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing.
HANSEN: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: Well, it sure seems like you had a lot of plans in this chat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I—can I ask a question?
HANSEN: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is my family going to have to know about this?
HANSEN: Why are you so concerned about your family knowing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because this—this is something that would just ruin their life.
HANSEN: Well, you made the decision to come in here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘ve seen this program before.
HANSEN: You‘ve seen this program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: All right. Well, you know what you walked into here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: You‘re still trying to figure this out, so I‘m going to tell you both what‘s going on here. I‘m Chris Hansen with “DATELINE NBC.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HANSEN: We‘re doing a story on adults who try to meet underage teens on line for sex.
(voice-over): Azfor still appears confused, but Khan clearly knows what‘s coming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We‘re both going to get arrested, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
HANSEN: Later, both men were charged with three felonies, including the attempting to commit a lewd act on a child and using a computer to send harmful material to a minor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: Do you talk about in your book also, Chris, about the fact that a lot of these predators come in, despite the fact that they‘ve seen the program before, and once you walk into the room, they know what the deal is?
HANSEN: I think that some of these guys, in spite of seeing the program or hearing about the investigations, really don‘t think it can happen to them. They don‘t believe “DATELINE” can be everywhere, and they don‘t believe that the police can be everywhere. And you know what? They‘re right. And the odds are overwhelmingly in their favor that they can get away with this activity because there‘s so much of it, and law enforcement across the country can do only so much.
The other half of the guys, I think, have developed the addictions and the compulsions on the Internet that become so strong that the only thing that will now satisfy them is this face-to-face meeting with the young teenager.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, in your Florida sting, you changed up the location and you confronted one of the potential predators right on the beach. Let‘s take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How‘re you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at the beach! It‘s so pretty. Oh, I‘m kind of shy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let‘s just stand here and look at the beach for a minute. I‘m kind of shy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me—let me (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you going to grab?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you going to grab?
HANSEN (voice-over): We think Collins (ph) spots the officers and gets back up on the walkway and starts heading towards his car. That‘s when our “DATELINE” crew and I approach him.
(on camera): Hey, how are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
HANSEN: Good. Can I talk to you for a minute?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
HANSEN: What are you up to today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing.
HANSEN: Nothing? What are you here for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come to meet her. I was talking to a her on line.
HANSEN: Who is she?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allie (ph).
HANSEN: Allie. And how old is Allie?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she was 14.
HANSEN: Fourteen. And how old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-three.
HANSEN: Thirty-three. And what‘s a 33-year-old man coming to meet a 14-year-old girl for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to say hi. That‘s all.
HANSEN: Just to say hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That‘s it.
HANSEN: You ever watch “DATELINE NBC”?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HANSEN: You ever see our stories on computer predators? What‘d you think of those stories?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
HANSEN: Well, this is one of those stories. I‘m Chris Hansen with “DATELINE NBC.” I‘m doing a story on adults who to try to meet minors on line for sex. If there‘s anything else you‘d like to tell me, I‘d like to hear it. If not...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is silly.
HANSEN: What‘s silly?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of this is silly. I‘m not (INAUDIBLE)
HANSEN (voice-over): Silly to him, but just for a moment, until he sees the police at the end of the boardwalk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands on top of your head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lean over the rail.
HANSEN: Collins later pleaded not guilty to two felony counts, including using a computer to solicit a child for sex.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: I love the question, Chris, What do you think of those stories?
(LAUGHTER)
HANSEN: We hear this more and more. You know, guys either talk about it in the chats or they—you know, they talk about the stories that they‘ve seen in the past, you know, when they‘re confronted.
SCARBOROUGH: Chris, tell me, though, I‘m always amazed by what these guys will admit to you, even when they know you‘re from NBC, even when they know that they‘re on camera. I mean, you—in this case, you asked this guy, you know, Why are you here? He says, To meet a 14-year-old girl.
HANSEN: Oh, yes.
SCARBOROUGH: How old are you? Thirty-three. I mean, why do they do that?
HANSEN: Well, I...
SCARBOROUGH: Do you just have this air of authority that just pulls it out of them?
HANSEN: I don‘t—I don‘t know about that. I think they sense that I really want to know. I think some of the guys feel like they want to get this off their chest. Some of them want to spin their story. And I think a lot of them think they‘re OK because (INAUDIBLE) sex with this girl. I really didn‘t have sex with this boy. So you know, nothing bad happened.
Well, the reality is that in most states, you know, the fact that you have this on-line solicitation and the fact that you show up constitutes, you know, a felony. And that‘s, you know, when they‘re prosecuted.
SCARBOROUGH: Stick around because coming up next, the families behind the predators. What happens to the wives and children of these men once “DATELINE‘s” cameras are gone? And later...
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANSEN: Every time I see that clip, I get the same feeling, you know, where, you know, it‘s hard to breathe and hard to get the words out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: Chris Hansen‘s most disturbing confrontation to date.
Find out what one man brought with him that brought the crew to tears. Plus: We follow these men once they‘re handed over to the long arm of the law. How much time do these potential predators really serve? And do any of them get off scot-free? We‘ve got those answers and more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: They‘re called collateral damage, the wives and children of on-line sexual predators, whose lives are often ripped apart by their husband or father‘s secret lives exposed. So what happens when the cameras have gone and lives need to be put back together? They‘re the hidden victims of these on-line sexual predators who are never given a voice—until now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I see Chris doing one of his predator shows...
HANSEN: Who did you think you were going to meet here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just this kid I‘ve been talking to.
HANSEN: This kid?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... my first thought is, Wow, somebody is going to have to go tell his wife. I know what that feels like. And that—and it hurts and it stings.
HANSEN: No, I need you to sit down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need you to just arrest me and take me to jail and execute me.
HANSEN: I need to talk to you first.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody really thinks about the predator‘s wife or the predator‘s children, the predator‘s best friend, the predator‘s next-door neighbor. And these are all people who have been betrayed. These are all individuals who have to go through their own shock and grief and anger and regrouping and moving on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: Chris, so often we just see naked guys coming into these kitchens, and we see rabbis lurching towards you, but we don‘t see what happens behind the scenes to the wives, to the children, to the family members. What do we learn in reading this book about that type of collateral damage?
HANSEN: You know, we interviewed three different women for the book, one of whom e-mailed me after one of our early investigations and said, Hey, you know, great job. This is important. People need to know about this stuff. But you ought to take a look at the damage that‘s left behind. You know, I‘ve gone through this. My husband was arrested for this sort of activity by the FBI, and we‘ve really had a tough go at this.
And we—one woman we profile, her husband was a prominent dentist and they had kids and he was a pilot and he was a respected member of society. And all the while, unbeknownst to virtually everybody in his life, he was on line, you know, engaging in this sort of predator behavior. He actually had been associated with the National—the North American Man Boy Love Association and was going on trips with these people. And the wife had no clue. Imagine the shock.
But it‘s really an inspiring story to see how these women have pulled
their lives back together because oftentimes, you know, they‘re left with -
with—with nothing.
SCARBOROUGH: Absolutely nothing. And what do you want not only for those women who were victimized in these stings because they‘re collateral damage because of what their husbands are doing, but what about parents? What kind of message do you want parents to get out of your book?
HANSEN: We put together a list of 20 things, not just, Don‘t do this, Don‘t do that. I have 20 different ways you can initiate a conversation with your child, and hopefully, it‘s a conversation that they‘ll remember, something that‘ll stick with them. You know, things that you can do to protect your child are as simple as limit the amount of time they spend on the Internet.
If a kid knows that they‘ve only got two hours to spend on the Internet on a school night, they‘ll get down to the business of downloading music, chatting with friends, checking the movie scheduled for Saturday night, and that‘s less time that they‘ll spend loitering in a chat room where they may be exposed to a potential predator.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, the important thing about this book also is, you talk about how you‘ve looked into the eyes of 250 of these guys, and you tell people, parents, law enforcement officers, what you learned. Tell us what we‘re going to read in the book about that.
HANSEN: Well, first of all, if you know how a predator operates, you know how to protect your child on line. You know, in the old days, Joe, when we were growing up, our parents said, Don‘t talk to strangers. Well, that‘s a good message for our kids, too, but the problem with Internet predators is they‘re so crafty and so good at grooming and so patient in some cases that suddenly a relationship is formed on line, and the child may not look at this person as a stranger. So that barrier is taken away.
And these guys know how to talk to kids, and I‘ve read, you know, hundreds and hundreds of these transcripts, and you see how their mind works. You see this template, and it‘s frightening how familiar, you know, this grooming process is. And so you really have to get your kids to understand that by talking to somebody on line who they don‘t know in real life, they are taking a great risk.
You know, the person they‘re talking to may say they‘re 13 or 14 and they may have a picture of a cute-looking boy or girl, but that person could be, you know, a 56-year-old in his basement someplace, you know, trying to set up this meeting.
SCARBOROUGH: Still to come, one of the creepiest on-line predators of them all. “DATELINE‘s” Chris Hansen tells us about one man who brought his young son on his sexcapade. Plus, predator cravings. Yes, there‘s another way to bait sex-hungry sickos, and late night comedian Conan O‘Brien tells us how. That‘s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s time for a special “To Catch a Predator” edition of “Must See S.C.,” some video you got to see. Now, if you‘re a regular “DATELINE” viewer, you‘ve probably noticed that many of the potential predators Chris Hansen comes across just can‘t keep their hands off the free food and drinks that “DATELINE” generously lays out. Well, Conan O‘Brien caught on, too, and he tried to get to the bottom of it on his show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O‘BRIEN, HOST, “LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O‘BRIEN: Let‘s talk about
the cookies. You have—you serve homemade cookies. You have them there,
and what shocks me
HANSEN: What shocks me is that they come in, you start talking to them, they sit down and they start eating these cookies. They really seem to enjoy the cookies. It is like an advertisement for the cookies, “So much even sexual predator enjoys one.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: We‘re going to show you what happened to two of the men who were caught. And later, a close call for Chris Hansen and his “DATELINE” crew when a suspect shows up with a dangerous weapon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. We‘ve got “Dateline‘s” Chris Hanson here for the hour, and he‘s talking about his new book, “To Catch a Predator,” and to give us the behind-the-scenes stories from some of the most shocking busts “Dateline” has made.
Now, these hidden-camera sex stings have nabbed more than 250 potential predators in more than two years, from doctors to teachers to cops and even a rabbi. But it‘s one man they caught in Fort Myers, Florida, that stands out above the rest, and “Dateline‘s” most disturbing encountered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s backing out now.
HANSEN: After conducting four Internet investigations in four different states, you‘d think we‘d be prepared for anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s getting out of the car.
HANSEN: What happens here in Florida shocks us all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He brought his son with him. He brought his son with him. He‘s got his child with him.
HANSEN: He‘s a 40 year-old married man, Clifford Wallach, screen name fotophix. And he‘s here to meet a boy who told him online he was 14.
Del from Perverted Justice, posing as the boy, talks to fotophix on the phone.
DEL, PERVERTED JUSTICE: He said, “I like oral, all aspects.” I said, “Giving or receiving?” He said, “Both.” I said, “Cool.” He said, “You up for that?” I said, “Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He‘s coming in the back door.
HANSEN: Holding his son‘s hand, the 40-year-old walks into the house. Because we don‘t want to scare the little boy, we immediately tell the man what‘s going on.
(on screen): I‘ve got to tell you something, and I‘m going to tell you this straight up, right now. I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC.” We‘re doing a story on adults getting children—and since you have your child here, I‘m not going to pursue this. But I think you know what you were doing here, don‘t you?
CLIFFORD WALLACH, SUSPECTED CHILD PREDATOR: No, I was just coming to take someone out to lunch.
HANSEN: My point is, because your child is here, I think it would be best if you just went ahead and left.
WALLACH: Yes, I agree. I‘m never going to do this again.
HANSEN (voice-over): Since the police know the man has his son with him...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You come here. You come here. Let go of the child.
HANSEN: ... a female officer quickly takes the little boy and whisks him away so he doesn‘t have to further witness his father‘s arrest.
WALLACH: Please give me my son, please.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Chris, the thing that‘s always amazed me about your work in this series is how you‘ve always kept your composure when I just don‘t see how you did. In this case, I think this is one of the few times I‘ve ever seen that facade crack, where you stopped being the reporter and actually started being, you know, a man who‘s genuinely disturbed by what he was seeing.
Was that one of the most troubling moments of this entire “Predator” series for you?
HANSEN: Oh, absolutely. Yes, it was troubling for everybody involved. You know, the people who work with me on these investigations have been with me, you know, in some of the darkest corners of the world, doing heavy investigations. And there were guys in tears. I mean, it was silent in there.
And every time I see that clip, I get the same feeling, you know, where it‘s hard to breathe, and hard to get the words out, which is how it was when I was talking to Clifford Wallach. I checked on that case not too long ago, and the last I heard was that, you know, Wallach was living back with his wife with relatives and that, pending the outcome of a child services investigation in Florida, the little boy was actually staying with other relatives and a criminal case is still pending against him in Florida.
SCARBOROUGH: Do you go into details on what type of prison sentences these guys got? And in your book, and when people read the book, do you think a lot of them may be disappointed that maybe some of these offenses didn‘t get as tough of a sentence as they would have liked?
WALLACH: Well, I think that‘s exactly right. We have had, you know, more than 250 men surface in this investigation. Of the men who have been prosecuted, probably half have either been convicted, pleaded guilty, or pleaded no contest.
On the low end, we‘ve seen probation, registering as a sex offender, and community service and a fine. On the high end, we‘ve seen six-and-a-half years in prison. The other half of the guys are still working their way through the court system. But in none of these cases has anybody gone to trial and been found not guilty or have, you know, all the charges been dismissed.
SCARBOROUGH: The rabbi, obviously one of the more famous stings that you conducted for “Dateline.”
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANSEN: It‘s 4:00 in the morning in an AOL chat room. This 54-year-old man, screen named Redbd, messages a 13-year-old boy named Conrad saying, “I‘m prowling for young men.” What he goes on to say, and the pictures he sends are so graphic we had to carefully edit them before putting them on television.
And as you‘ll hear when we read from his chat log, it‘s clear Redbd knows what he‘s doing is wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are only 13?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That‘s rape
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, I tell you that before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just you‘re so, so young, I‘ve never been with a young man like you, but I would like to.
HANSEN: While the two are chatting online, we conduct a background check and are absolutely shocked by what this man does for a living. And now he‘s in our kitchen, after making a date for sex with a boy he thinks is 13.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
Hey, hold on one second. I‘ve got to change my shirt. I‘ll be back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We‘ll see.
HANSEN (on screen): So how can I help you? What are you doing here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing good. This isn‘t good.
HANSEN: Not good? That‘s kind of an understatement, isn‘t it? What do you do for a living?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am a rabbi.
HANSEN (voice-over): That‘s right, a rabbi. The man who sent naked pictures of himself is a man of God. He‘s a staff member at a Jewish youth educational organization.
(on screen): Now, presumably, you counsel families and children in your position as a rabbi. What are you doing, as a man of God, as a rabbi, in this house, trying to meet a 13-year-old boy?
(voice-over): Instead of answering, the rabbi asks to know who I am.
But before I tell him, I want to ask him about those pictures he sent.
(On screen): And you sent pornographic pictures. That‘s a federal offense right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, you know I‘m in trouble, and I know I‘m in trouble. I am not interested in getting any further.
HANSEN (voice-over): Then we heard that familiar excuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not something that I‘ve done ever.
HANSEN (on screen): You‘ve never done this before? You know, because I hear that a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you please tell me who you are?
HANSEN: I‘m more than happy to tell you who I am. I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC,” and we‘re doing a story on computer predators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You‘ve got to stop this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down. Sit down.
HANSEN: You‘re free to leave at any time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: What type of sentence did the rabbi get? Was the rabbi the toughest?
HANSEN: He was one of the toughest. He chose to have his trial in front of a judge, no jury. He had been remanded without bail ever since he was charged. The magistrate saying that, you know, the chat and the pictures that he sent were so disturbing, he didn‘t deserve to have bail. He was a danger to the community.
So he had his bench trial in federal court. A judge found him guilty and sentenced him to six-and-a-half years in prison, followed by I think 10 years of supervised release. The judge, in his ruling, said part of the reason he handed down such a stern sentence was because he found that the rabbi lied when he took the stand in his own defense, to say that, in fact, he really didn‘t think it was a 13-year-old boy. He thought it was somebody who was role-playing.
SCARBOROUGH: Up next, these predator stings are not only disturbing, sometimes they‘re dangerous. We‘re going to show you what happens when one suspect arrives with a loaded gun, next.
And later...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANSEN: Did you bring any wine with you? Did you bring condoms?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: A look at “Hollyweird‘s” obsession with “Dateline‘s” undercover sex stings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: “Predator” goes pop culture. “Dateline‘s” hidden camera sex stings have officially turned into a cultural phenomenon, with parodies turning up on “Saturday Night Live” and “30 Rock.”
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANSEN: Good evening, sir. I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC.”
Can I ask you what you‘re doing here tonight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: “Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip”...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, fella.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘m Chris Hansen from “Dateline.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: And even some amateur imitations on YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I live here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you live here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Chris Hansen has popped up everywhere, making appearances on Leno, Conan, Oprah, and even making time for “The Daily Show.”
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, “THE DAILY SHOW”: Do you ever fear for your safety? I know there are guys with cameras and boom mikes, but it seems clear to me from watching these shows that, if somebody started kicking your ass, they would film it. They would not help you. They would just be doing this, “Oh, that guy‘s nailing Chris!”
(LAUGHTER)
“Wow, Chris is going down!”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: When you started this series, did you have any idea that it would get as big as it did?
HANSEN: No idea. I mean, I honestly, Joe, thought that we‘d do this two or three times, and we‘d end up on the—you know, with a situation where we had nothing but video of me pacing in a house some place, you know, like the Maytag repairman, with, you know, nobody showing up. But that obviously is not what‘s happened. And, you know, guys continue to show up.
And I think it speaks to, you know, the extent of the problem, the addictions that these guys have, the compulsions, and the fact that, you know, they really don‘t think it could happen to them.
SCARBOROUGH: And, you know, it‘s become so big and so visible that even the Emmy Awards had some fun with it. Let‘s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CONAN O‘BRIEN, HOST, “LATE NIGHT”: Hello? Anybody here?
HANSEN: I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC.”
O‘BRIEN: Oh, gosh. OK, not what you think.
HANSEN: Welcome to another edition of “To Catch a Predator.”
O‘BRIEN: I‘m looking for the Emmys. I‘m hosting.
HANSEN: “Hosting”? That‘s what you call it?
O‘BRIEN: Yes, it‘s my second time.
HANSEN: So you‘ve done this before?
O‘BRIEN: Yes, no, I did it one time, and I liked it, and I thought I should do it again.
HANSEN: Of all the predators I‘ve met, this guy, screen named ConeBone69, was by far the creepiest.
O‘BRIEN: This is kind of—you think it‘s—very easy for explain.
HANSEN: Explain it, then.
O‘BRIEN: OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Chris, a lot of fun watching that on the Emmys, great watching you on Conan and these other shows, but do you get a sense—I mean, every time you do that, it‘s kind of like getting the word out. Just like this book, it gets the word out. It‘s a reminder that this is one of the most serious issues that parents have to deal with, with their children growing up these days, right?
HANSEN: Absolutely. And I always take some time and think about these before I actually make an appearance like that. And when the Conan folks came to us, you know, we thought, “You know, this is fine. We‘re allowed to poke fun at ourselves. We‘re not making light of a very important issue.” I mean, I think people are starting to grasp the dangers out there.
But it does bring yet more attention to a problem that people need to deal with. And like anything else, Joe, I mean, knowledge is power, you know? If you teach your kids about what‘s out there, they‘re going to be way better off. And the only thing you need to do—and we talk about this in the book, as well—is you need to tell your kids that, if they are approached—you know, kids are curious. They‘re going to check out different areas of the Internet.
If they are approached by someone who makes them feel uncomfortable, and they feel it‘s inappropriate, they have to be able to be comfortable to come to you and say, “Look, this is what happened.” And you have to then promise not to rip the computer out of the wall and tell your child that, together, you‘ll go to the Internet service provider or to the police and we‘ll report this.
But, you know, I remember one time interviewing, you know, a group of 12- or 13-year-olds, and I said to them—I said, “How many go on the Internet regularly?” All of them raised their hands. I said, “How many of you have ever been approached by somebody and it made you feel uncomfortable?” Probably 80 percent of them raised their hands. I said, “How many of you told your parents?” And they‘re looking down, and they‘re kicking their feet, and nobody.
And I said, “Why not?” And they said because, you know, we were afraid they‘re going to take away the computer. And I mean, that was right from their mouths. I mean, that happened spontaneously. And to me, that really sent a message, and it‘s something I‘ll never forget.
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, thanks so much, Chris Hansen. And make sure to pick up Chris‘ new book, “To Catch a Predator: Protecting your Kids from Online Enemies Already in your Home.” And you can log onto their Web site, dateline.MSNBC.com, for more information on how to protect your kids from online predators.
Hey, that‘s all the time we have for tonight. We‘re going to see you back here tomorrow night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. But don‘t go anywhere. “COUNTDOWN” starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
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