Guests: Michael Crowley, Joan Walsh, Tom O‘Neil, Steve Adubato, Adam Carolla
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight, Rosie O‘Donnell. You can‘t catch her on “The View,” but you can see her spouting her crazy conspiracy theories on the Web and going after her former co-stars. So much for going quietly into that good night. A look at the train wreck and why Barbara Walters still can‘t clear the tracks.
But first: America suffers through its deadliest month in Iraq in more than two years over the past 29 days. U.S. armed services are stretched to a breaking point, and the world is more dangerous today than at any time since the early morning hours of September 11, 2001. And yet no one in Washington seems to know how to win this war, strengthen our military or make Americans safe. Why? Because once again, politics is trumping common sense.
Now, on the Republican side, congressional leaders have blindly followed the president, who continues to believe that the war on terror begins and ends in Iraq. He is wrong. It does not. But Iraq is one front in the war on terror. And despite what Bush haters say, we are in a war against Islamic extremists who want to destroy America and kill you and your family.
But that war has many fronts. We face threats from Iran, who‘s been at the epicenter of world terrorism since ‘79, from Afghanistan, where the Taliban is gaining strength and being given safe haven, from Pakistan, where Islamic extremists sympathetic to bin Laden are more likely than not to gain control of nuclear weapons within the next five years. And yet Mr. Bush and the Republican Party can only focus on Iraq, Iraq and Iraq.
You know, that strategy is the foolhardy equivalent of Dwight Eisenhower deciding that he was going to move all of our troops into North Africa in 1942 and either win or lose World War II on that front, regardless of the realities across Europe and the rest of the world.
Now, Republicans need to wake up and realize we are fighting a war against terrorism, not just a war against terrorists in Iraq. And we can‘t win that battle right now so long as Sunnis are blowing up Shiites, Shiites are blowing up Sunnis and both are blowing up each other. It is time to redeploy or troops to other fronts where U.S. power and might can make a difference. And right now, that place is not Iraq and Iraq alone.
Here now to talk about the bloodiest month in two years and the going ons in Iraq and Washington, D.C., Michael Crowley—he‘s senior editor for “The New Republic”—Joan Walsh, editor-in-chief for Salon.com, and two-time presidential contender and former White House communications director Pat Buchanan.
Pat, we talked this morning about how the situation in Iraq keeps getting worse, and yet it seems like politicians in Washington, D.C., have their feet planted in cement and can‘t face the realities on ground, across the region and across the world. What are we going to do?
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think what the politicians in Washington fear, Joe, is if they follow their convictions and vote to defund the war, the disaster in Iraq will become a calamity. But as we talked this morning, there‘s a lot of time bombs ticking. Olmert in Israel is going be, I believe, pitched out. His likely successor, Mr. Netanyahu, will do his best to engage Iran and to engage the United States in a war with Iran. Mr. Musharraf in Pakistan is really on the ropes politically. If he goes down, you‘ve got an Islamic republic with nuclear weapons. Karzai—he is the mayor of Kabul. The Taliban is making a comeback. In what Brzezinski calls the “arc of crisis,” Joe, nothing really seems to be going well.
SCARBOROUGH: And Joan, the latest “New York Times”/CBS poll is showing they aren‘t going well for the president, either. They asked Americans if they support a timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq sometime in 2008, 63 percent saying the U.S. should be on a timetable. Only 34 percent oppose a timetable.
And here we have the lack of leadership in Washington, D.C. There is not a party, there is not a politician that‘s a national politician that can step up and talk to both you and me and say, We need to get out of Iraq. The world is a dangerous place. We‘re not retreating into isolationism. We‘re going stay engaged. But there‘s a better way to do it. Where is the leadership in Washington, D.C., on either side of the aisle?
JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: I don‘t know, Joe. I‘m very disappointed. I missed you last week. I didn‘t have you to talk to about the whole Democratic collapse. It was very sad to me. But at the same time, you know, I have some sympathy for the Democrats because they‘re so terrified of having that phrase, “defund the troops,” hung around their necks. I mean, it makes me start to think that you and Pat and Michael and I can actually contribute to a solution by not using that anymore. I mean, I really feel like they chickened out. Even Murtha—you know, Jack Murtha, who‘s been talking tough for several years now, just figured out right before the vote, Oh, you know what? If we don‘t pass—if we don‘t give him...
SCARBOROUGH: But Joan—but Joan...
WALSH: ... a bill that he‘ll sign...
SCARBOROUGH: ... do you know what the thing is, thought? And I don‘t mean to cut you off.
WALSH: Sure.
SCARBOROUGH: But that‘s their job! Their job is to be attacked for defunding the troops. And to say...
WALSH: And to stand up.
SCARBOROUGH: ... You know what? I‘m not defunding the troops. What I‘m doing is I‘m trying to protect the troops. I‘m trying to remember what Republicans said to Bill Clinton when he was keeping people in the United States armed services in more places than ever before. It was a readiness issue. The troops were exhausted. And here—I mean, 10 years later, it‘s worse than it could have ever been under Bill Clinton. That‘s why we elect people, to be leaders, to take slanderous attacks and then to explain to us, to rise above it all and say, I‘m not going be scared.
WALSH: Yes, I...
SCARBOROUGH: But it seems like everybody is scared of their shadow in Washington, D.C., tonight!
WALSH: I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. I was shocked that Murtha talked about it that way. If they‘re going take what I thought was a bold but also politically smart strategy of sending the money—absolutely, they sent the money, but with timelines, they should have known where that strategy would lead and that they—if they wanted to keep doing it, that there would be a confrontation over, Did the troops have enough money, and that they‘d be hung with this awful, awful slur. And they didn‘t stand up. And worse than that, Joe, several of them had the audacity to sell it as a victory. You know, Harry Reid told us, Oh, we‘re not giving the president a blank check. Well, we absolutely gave him a blank check.
SCARBOROUGH: And you know, Michael Crowley, Joan brings up a fantastic point. Pat Buchanan has been telling you and Joan and myself and everybody that watches MSNBC and been telling the Democrats, You‘re going to cave. The president‘s going beat you at your own game. You‘re going to cave. Why didn‘t they see what was coming ahead of time? Why didn‘t they know—they had to know back in January if they took this step, they were going be accused of defunding the troops. And yet they walked right into it. I mean, my God, if we wanted this type of leadership, we would have elected people like Newt Gingrich and me to run the Congress, like we did in ‘95. There was never—we always laughed that Gingrich never had a plan B. Well, it looks like the Democrats didn‘t have a plan B this time.
MICHAEL CROWLEY, “THE NEW REPUBLIC”: Well, I guess that‘s right, Joe. On the other hand, what—I mean, they have to do something. They‘re getting so much pressure from people who want—from the left, from anti-war...
SCARBOROUGH: And Michael, let me...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: I don‘t mean to interrupt. Let me show you what you do. You draw a number, and you go like this. And you stand at a press conference and you say, 63 percent of Americans believe, like I do, that we have to put the United States on a timetable to get out of Iraq. We‘re going to give the Iraqi people another year. We‘ve given them four years. We‘ve given them 4,000 American deaths. We‘ve given them billions of dollars. Sixty-three percent of Americans are with us, Mr. President. Thirty-four percent of Americans are with you. Listen to the American people. Listen to what they‘re saying to you. Listen to what they said to you in November, Mr. President.
I mean, why can‘t a Democrat do that?
CROWLEY: I don‘t—Joe, they could use you in the House Democratic leadership, you know? You might want to—you might want to...
WALSH: Time to run, Joe.
CROWLEY: ... file an application. Look—but I think that they knew that they didn‘t want to cut off the money entirely, and they felt like they had to do something. They did make some of the arguments that you just made. But I think they knew at the end of the day, they couldn‘t win this fight, given the numbers they have in the House and the Senate and the president‘s veto ability. And what they‘re not willing to do is to cut off the money entirely. And I think that they probably are looking at poll numbers and have residual fears about the way Vietnam played out that will not allow them to do that.
I do think it‘s crazy that there is this—that the Republicans can use this line that we‘re going defund the troops and—I don‘t know what the implication is, that literally troops will be sort of running with—you know, without armor, or you know, without clothes, without gasoline?
BUCHANAN: Michael...
CROWLEY: Of course that‘s not going happen.
BUCHANAN: Michael, they don‘t have the courage of their convictions. They could defund the war. But they don‘t have the courage of their convictions because they fear that if they defund it, a calamity could ensue and they will be blamed for losing Iraq. And the generals will blame them and the politicians, after it goes down, will blame them. They can‘t look in that abyss and jump.
SCARBOROUGH: And Pat, you know, you talked about some very interesting things. You talked about what was going on in Israel. You talked about a coming war with Iran, between Israel and Iran. It probably is going to happen. The United States is going to be dragged into that. You talked about Pakistan, what‘s happening there. You talked about Afghanistan.
BUCHANAN: Pakistan‘s the most dangerous county on earth.
SCARBOROUGH: Pat, you and I have been saying that for a long time. It is without a doubt the most dangerous country on earth. Even if Musharraf‘s not assassinated, he may be ridden out of town on a rail.
I want you to take a look, though—just today—this is the violence in Iraq just today, where we‘ve basically put all of our chips on the table. We moved into this one place in Iraq, while Pakistan, while Iran, while all the—I mean, it‘s amazing that all the troops, all of our investment—today, five Britons kidnapped from a government office. A minibus explosion killed 23, wounded 68. Pick-up truck explosion killed 17, wounded 55.
BUCHANAN: Right.
SCARBOROUGH: Forty were abducted at a fake checkpoint in Samarra. Of course, this past month, the deadliest month since November...
BUCHANAN: Right.
SCARBOROUGH: ... of 2004. Pat, we could put another 100,000 troops in Iraq, and Sunnis would keep blowing up Shia, Shia would keep blowing up...
BUCHANAN: And Joe...
SCARBOROUGH: ... Sunnis. Pat, why are we doing this?
BUCHANAN: Look, let me give you some numbers. We‘ve got 150,000 troops in Iraq. At the end of World War II, we had four million in Western Europe. We had 12 million under arms. We got an Army of 500,000 people. We got commitments to fight all over the world on behalf of 50 or 60 countries. The United States is playing empire with a wonderful little army, but it is small, Joe. You can‘t do it. We do not have the ability to build a nation and deal with an guerrilla insurgency of the kind we confront with the armed forces we confront right now.
SCARBOROUGH: And that‘s another example...
BUCHANAN: We just don‘t have it!
SCARBOROUGH: That‘s another example of our politicians betraying the American people, not being grown-ups, Don Rumsfeld saying that he was going win wars on the cheap, that we‘re going to be able to cut the military...
BUCHANAN: Right.
SCARBOROUGH: Absolute garbage. Now, Joan, I want you to look at
this, Newt Gingrich going after the Bush administration in an interview
with “The New Yorker” magazine, saying the Bush White House has become the
Republican Party‘s version of Jimmy Carter‘s presidency. Quote, “It‘s
gotten steadily worse. There was some point during the Iranian hostage
crisis, the gasoline rationing, the ‘malaise‘ speech, the sweater, the
rabbit, that there was a morning where the average Americans went, ‘You
know what? This really worries me.‘”
You know, Gingrich is exactly right. But Joan, what he‘s saying is what Republicans have been saying to me off the record for 18 months. And when I say it on air, it makes people very angry. But Republicans have been saying it‘s a lot like 1979, when that malaise set in. What do we do when we‘ve got a country that doesn‘t seem to have a strong, effective leader out there on either side of the aisle?
WALSH: Well, you know, Bush and Carter are tied at about 28 percent approval ratings, so it‘s very eerie. You know, there is—there is a malaise and people won‘t talk about it. But listen Joe, I would like more Republicans to be courageous like you and talk not off the record but on the record. And don‘t go up and privately tell President Bush, Oh, we‘re not with you and you have no credibility, but vote with Democrats to end the war. And they‘re not doing that. So you know, I get a little defensive of the Democrats when we simply focus on their cowardice because, really, you‘ve got this whole caucus of people...
BUCHANAN: Right.
WALSH: ... they‘re scared for their political careers. They go up and they...
BUCHANAN: But Joan—Joan...
WALSH: ... warn privately, and they will not do a darn thing, Pat.
BUCHANAN: Joan, let me tell you, it is not simply their careers. They genuinely fear—I fear that this thing‘s going come down and it is going to be awful. And if I were up there, even though I would have voted against going to war, I would have a very tough time voting with Ron Paul and Jimmy Duncan, who had the courage to go up there and vote with the Democrats to defund it because I fear what is going happen afterwards, Joe. I think when president says, You pull out, and this thing is coming down and it‘s going to spread all down the peninsula, he may be right.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: He may be right.
SCARBOROUGH: We got to go. We‘re going to hold this over to the next break. My problem with that argument is we can still be making that argument five years...
CROWLEY: Exactly.
SCARBOROUGH: ... ten years, fifteen years from now.
WALSH: And we could very well...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: At some point, the Iraqi people have to step up.
Michael, stay with us. Joan, Pat, also stick around. When we come back, the United States meets with Iran. Is it a desperate act for the Bush administration grasping at straws to get the hell out of Iraq?
And later: She‘s off “The View,” but we haven‘t seen the last of Rosie O‘Donnell, caught on tape spouting more conspiracy theories. The former “Viewer” has cranked up the freak switch, and we‘re along for the ride, baby. Wait until you hear what Barbara Walters is saying.
And later: Is Lindsay Lohan going from bad to worse, passing out in front of the paparazzi? Is this the full-blown meltdown we‘ve been expecting, or is there more to come? Hey, that looks like me last night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Next is USA. Hello. (INAUDIBLE) Yes. OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, whatever. They‘re all booing because they want to live up here! We got 12 million (INAUDIBLE) keep booing us! Keep booing us! I‘m going to call my senator and tell him to vote against that illegal immigration bill. I was for it, Pat Buchanan, up until now. A rocky reception for Miss USA at last night‘s Miss Universe competition—booed by the crowd in Mexico City. Go ahead and boo. We can even beat your soccer team now.
That‘s a reception Americans are finding more and more as they travel overseas. And the president‘s war in Iraq‘s obviously hurt U.S. relations across the world and forced the White House to do what was once unthinkable, negotiate with a hostile Iranian regime. U.S. and Iranian officials met yesterday in Baghdad, the most high-profile meeting between the two countries in almost 30 years. Question is, was this a desperate act from an administration searching for answers in Iraq?
Still with us, our all-star panel. And Pat Buchanan, you talked about Iraq a lot. You‘ve talked about Netanyahu. It seems to me if the U.S. is talking to Iraq—to the Iranians right now, that only makes Israelis more likely to vote for somebody like Netanyahu, who‘s promising to go to war with them.
BUCHANAN: Perhaps. But look, we got to talk to the Iranians. They got influence in Iraq. I don‘t know how much aid they‘re giving. We‘re claiming they‘re giving a lot in terms of those upgraded IEDs. But we got to talk to them, Joe.
But let me tell you what the bottom line is. I think the United States could get Iran to give up the continued enrichment of uranium, but the price is going to be a U.S. security guarantee not to attack them. And I think that we‘ve got a lot of things on the plate. Look, I was in China with Nixon when he was talking to the greatest mass murderer of all times, Mao Zedong. You got to do that at times, and I think this time the president is doing the right thing.
SCARBOROUGH: Michael Crowley, do you think that‘s how they‘re going to see it on Capitol Hill?
CROWLEY: I‘m sorry. Is it going to what on Capitol Hill?
SCARBOROUGH: Is that how politicians that are pro-Israel are going to see it on Capitol Hill?
CROWLEY: Well, look, I mean, I don‘t know exactly where this is going. I don‘t know that Iran will give up their nuclear program for something so simple as an assurance that we won‘t attack them in the first place. I mean, there‘s not a whole lot to that deal. I mean, we tell them we won‘t do something, and they give up this incredibly valuable path to being a regional superpower. So I don‘t know—I don‘t know if I see it playing out that way.
But you know, it‘s just so hard to say because it seems to me that there‘s a split within the Bush administration right now, that there‘s sort of a Condi Rice foreign policy direction, which is a little bit more internationalist, and a Dick Cheney foreign policy direction, which is more saber-rattling and standing on a aircraft carrier and sort of implicitly threatening to attack.
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m with (INAUDIBLE)
CROWLEY: So until that—until that dispute is played out, I think it‘s hard to sort of try to predict what‘s going to happen next up on the Hill.
SCARBOROUGH: Joan, how do we go from—and listen, I would have absolutely no problem saber-rattling threatening to invade Iran if we had any troops to send in there. I do think they‘re the “axis of evil.” I think they‘re also the epicenter of terror, and they have been since 1970. But this is where we find ourselves now, don‘t we, because all of our troops are in Iraq. We‘re stretched thin. We put ourself in a position where these people now exert a tremendous amount of influence over the future of our troops and U.S. foreign policy, right?
WALSH: Right. I mean, there‘s really nothing much that we can do with genuine threats. Although, you know, I‘m closer to Pat on this one than I am to you, Joe, I think. I believe that we need to talk to them. I believe that they are responsible for evil. But that‘s what you do, you talk to the evil people. You talk to the troublemakers, and see if you can find some common ground. They need to do that.
But you know what really terrifies me—there was a great piece today in “The LA Times” that talked about how Petraeus and other military officials are really getting ready for—you know this September deadline we‘ve been talking about? Petraeus has to give a report. There will be more funding bills coming up then. Well, they‘re getting ready to define success down. They‘re talking about, Well, we‘re really not going have an oil-sharing—revenue-sharing deal. We‘re really not going have a whole lot of Sunni participation. We‘re really not going to have an end to the factionalism. Here are the new benchmarks. We‘ve got some good deals with local tribal sheikhs.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes.
WALSH: We‘ve got some really great neighborhood programs. They‘re turning this into Operation Iraqi Neighborhood Watch.
BUCHANAN: But Joe—Joe, let me get back to Iran.
WALSH: And our soldiers...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: ... just not going to work. Yes, Pat, let‘s go back to Iran. Explain to me how the president goes from calling them the “axis of evil” to sitting down and talking to them.
BUCHANAN: He‘s going to have to sit down and talk to them. Look, the alternative is...
WALSH: And Syria, too.
BUCHANAN: ... we attack them—we attack them. You could take out Natanz. It‘s very easy to shake up all those centrifuges. But if you do that, Joe, you better build a new wing on Walter Reed because what will happen is they will raise up the whole Shia population and all the Mahdi Army and all the rest to start killing Americans in Iraq. And there‘ll be a lot of casualties down there, and the whole place goes up. I don‘t know who wins from that. There‘s no doubt...
SCARBOROUGH: Nobody.
BUCHANAN: ... you can set back their nuclear program. But once they got the knowledge—and they‘re getting it right now—you can only delay it, you can‘t stop it.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, Pat Buchanan, we‘re going to have to stop there. Thank you so much, Michael Crowley, Joan Walsh, Pat Buchanan. As always, thank you so much for chiming in on this extraordinarily important issue.
And a reminder. I‘m pulling double duty this week. You can catch me starting tomorrow morning at 6:00 AM on MSNBC for “MORNING JOE.” I‘m going to be joined by co-hosts Willie Geist and John Ridley. We‘ll also have Anika Brzezinski (ph) with us. And our guests tomorrow include journalist Dan Rather and attorney Alan Dershowitz and columnist Mike Barnicle. (INAUDIBLE) talk with him about the Red Sox (INAUDIBLE) better than the Yankees, by the way.
Still head: You think you‘ve heard the last of Rosie? Yes. Not even close! She‘s not going to away quietly, going after her former co-hosts and caught on tape spouting more of those conspiracy theories. We‘re going to show you the visit that catches her in the act. Plus, Barbara breaks her silence.
And next, it‘s time to throw a kangaroo on the barbie. It‘s time for “Must See S.C.”
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, it‘s time for tonight‘s “Must See S.C.,” some video you got to see. First up: Jay Leno celebrating his 15th anniversary hosting the “Tonight” show by giving us a look back at some of his more memorable interviews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, “TONIGHT SHOW”: Why chubby girls?
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, people will be analyzing that for years to come.
LENO: Are there any women left you haven‘t hit on?
CLINTON: No. No, not after eight years in Washington.
LENO: (INAUDIBLE) a lot of people are saying that perhaps you don‘t have the experience to be president.
GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don‘t worry about those kind of critiques because I know who I am.
LENO: Right. And who are you?
BUSH: George Smith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: And finally: The kangaroo population in Australia is out of control. Fortunately, David Letterman‘s got the solution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To control the booming animal population, Australian officials have decided to shoot 3,200 kangaroos between now and July, and that can mean only one thing. Kangaroo Fest at Outback Steakhouse is back! Whether you‘re in the mood for a rack of tangy kanga ribs or a delicious cheese-filled meat pouch, you‘ll find it here. And your child will love our bite-size hopper poppers. Just try to keep them on the plate. Outback Steakhouse, no rules, just dead kangaroos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: And still ahead, Rosie goes off not just on “The View” but on her former co-hosts and more crazy conspiracy theories. And why is Barbara Walters still defending her? And will the second time this year be the charm for Lindsay Lohan in rehab, or has the troubled starlet bottomed out? And could she be headed for jail after rehab?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Coming up, will the second time be the charm for Lindsay Lohan? Back in rehab after a wild week. She had a DUI, passing out in front of paparazzi. Can Hollywood‘s wild child ever be tamed? That story in just minutes.
But first, Rosie is gone from “The View,” but Rosie ain‘t keeping quite. Over the weekend, she talked about her premature departure while enjoying a cold one in a bizarre video blog entry, as a new 9/11 conspiracy theory caught on tape by somebody, presumably in “The View” audience, was making the rounds on the Internet. Check this lady out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSIE O‘DONNELL, FORMER HOST, “THE VIEW”: ... last guy pulled out. He was on sub level two, and he heard a bomb. And the guy who was filling the soda machine from (INAUDIBLE) came to him and his whole skin was falling off. And he said, “What happened? What happened? The generator blew up?” He said, “A bomb.” (INAUDIBLE) omitted from the 9/11 reports. Why? It was omitted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s mind-boggling, and stupid people in the audience going, “Oh, my god, Martians really invaded New York City and shot John Lennon?” These people are wack nuts. So they must have been handing out copies of “Catcher in the Rye” to everybody in the audience. So is Barbara Walters backing away from this freak of a woman and her crazy theories? Well, let‘s see what she said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, HOST, “THE VIEW”: Rosie was never fired, and there was no desire to have her leave the show. We wanted to have her stay. It was Rosie‘s decision not to return for the other three weeks. It is “The View.” We do have different opinions. I will always—we will always be grateful to Rosie for her contribution this year. She‘s welcome to come back any time she wants, and we hope that it will be often.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, whatever. Come on, is that invitation really good? Is she really going miss Rosie, or is she glad to be rid of Rosie and her rants? Let‘s bring in Tom O‘Neil. He‘s a senior editor at “InTouch Weekly,” who, of course, used to work for Rosie‘s magazine. He‘s been predicting this from the very beginning. And MSNBC media analyst Steve Adubato.
You know, Tom O‘Neil, Barbara Walters, I guess she seemed sincere, if she ever seems sincere. But she can‘t mean that. I mean, Rosie is certifiable, right? She‘s cracking up before our eyes.
TOM O‘NEIL, “INTOUCH WEEKLY”: It‘s interesting that Barbara never said this about Star Jones, when that split-up happened, so I think there‘s something significant in terms of step forwards for ex-hosts here on Barbara‘s part.
But I think this whole split really started back in January. This is my theory. I can‘t validate it, but my sources behind the scenes tell me this, that when Rosie heard Donald Trump say that Barbara, you know, didn‘t really like Rosie, I think there was a split there that never actually mended.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes. And, you know, Rosie talked about Barbara, she talked about the “The View” on her blog over the weekend, also. And she said in that blog that she would never really be able to forgive some people on the show and said she never really felt welcome on the show. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: I was really just like a foster kid for a year. I came, and we considered adoption, but I didn‘t really fit into the family. And now it‘s time for the foster kid to go back home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: I mean, the way she looked, I mean, good lord. I won‘t make any other comments about that.
But, Steve Adubato, isn‘t it amazing that Rosie O‘Donnell—she can dish it out. She can accuse the United States government of killing people on September 11th, of it being an inside job. She can call American troops that are separated from their loved ones, that put their lives on the line, she can call them terrorists. And yet when she‘s called on the carpet one time by little Elisabeth Hasselbeck, she melts, gets angry, and quits.
STEVE ADUBATO, MEDIA ANALYST: Who knew that Rosie was so thin-skinned, Joe? You said it, right, and her whole other range of things that she said about other people that we don‘t have time to talk about. I mean, this is ridiculous. She said that she was upset with her producers at “The View” that somehow they threw her under the bus because there was a split screen with Rosie and Elisabeth going back and forth when that situation happened. I‘m thinking to myself, “If I‘m a producer, that‘s exactly what I‘m going to do.”
It‘s great television. It‘s intense. It‘s personal. You don‘t see it very often. And, by the way, Joe, this reference to being a foster child, I want to be a foster child who has a daytime program on a network, getting paid millions of dollars, and I‘m the moderator in control? All foster children should be treated the way Rosie was. It‘s an abomination, and Barbara Walters not holding her accountable for these statements speaks volumes about Barbara Walters and how she‘s lost her credibility as a journalist.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, you know, of course—and, Tom O‘Neil, Rosie O‘Donnell claims that she was a foster child, and yet Rosie O‘Donnell is always a foster child. She goes in, she kicks down the front door, she controls every house that she‘s a part of, she behaves badly, and then she rants and then runs off. Again, you worked closely with this woman. She did this at her magazine, and you predicted she was going to be doing this months ago.
O‘NEIL: Yes, she doesn‘t fit in with groups. This was a bad mix from the very beginning. The fun of the show is watching the explosions that happen as a result of all that. I always think that the best analogy here is that she was a skunk at their picnic, and it was kind of fun to watch what would result from that.
SCARBOROUGH: But has Rosie always been this way? Has she always been thin-skinned? I mean, she‘s saying she may never talk to Elisabeth Hasselbeck again.
O‘NEIL: That was the really interesting—dual stories we got today, by the way, Joe. On “The View” today, Elisabeth was saying, “Well, Rosie and I e-mailed each other all weekend, and we exchanged the powers of forgiveness.” Well, Rosie said on her blog, “We had one e-mail and forth, and I ain‘t ever talking to her again.”
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, in that tone. Here‘s Barbara Walters talking about where things stand with her and Rosie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTERS: Rosie and I have been e-mailing each other all weekend with the most affectionate notes, because we are very close friends. And as I said last week, my admiration for her and my affection for her—Rosie, if you‘re watching, nothing will change that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, and I‘ve been e-mailing both of you, and I‘m e-mailing Rosie, and I‘ve been e-mailing Barbara. I keep waiting for Elisabeth to e-mail me. She will not. I e-mail her 20, 30 times a day. She won‘t e-mail me back.
Steve Adubato, I mean, this is just a bunch of B.S. and a bunch of spin?
ADUBATO: You know, Joe, it is. But here‘s the other problem I have -
and I appreciated what Tom was saying about the gossipy part of it, that Rosie is difficult with groups. I agree with all that, but there‘s a bigger issue here. The 9/11 report, that commission report put together by Tom Kean, the former governor of New Jersey, and Lee Hamilton, the former congressman, you know who he is. You served with him. That was a very important report.
For Rosie to say that she had information about what happened to World Trade Center building seven, a guy, there was a bomb, and then they saw the plane? Joe, this isn‘t just having fun and entertaining and Rosie is a car wreck and we want to watch her. This is important information about life and death, about the most important event that happened on our soil in history. She had information, she wouldn‘t bring it to the 9/11 Commission? She wouldn‘t talk about it on the air. She talked about it in a commercial break, and ultimately Barbara Walters says, “I love you” and nothing will change that? Barbara, you should be ashamed.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, she really should. Barbara Walters—I don‘t know what she is now, but she certainly is not a journalist. No journalist would stand by and allow these type of rants to continue.
And, you know, it seems, Tom O‘Neil, that Rosie also—not only is she thin-skinned against the attacks from Elisabeth Hasselbeck, but she‘s also—she was getting tired of being criticized by people, including us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Hey, Marla, here‘s what I say to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A big fart to you, Marla.
O‘DONNELL: A big fart to you. I feel sorry for you, is the bottom line, because you go on the blog of someone you apparently don‘t like to say nasty things. What kind of a sick, twisted person are you? Why don‘t you go on the “I Heart Bill O‘Reilly” blog? Why don‘t you go, you know, “Joe Scarborough is the God of the Universe” blog?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Wait, hold on. Wait a second. I don‘t have that domain yet. Hold on, Joe Scarborough is god of the universe...
ADUBATO: Go with that, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Was that dot-com or dot-org? Tom O‘Neil, again, she is so thin-skinned. And, again, listen, my beef has not been with Rosie. I think Rosie is a runaway beer truck. My problem has been with the fact that Barbara Walters and all of these people will stand back and they‘ll applaud her when she calls U.S. troops terrorists, when she says Christians are just as dangerous as radical Muslims. I mean, again, she is so thin-skinned, and yet she‘s thin-skinned after going up and throwing these verbal bombs everywhere she goes.
O‘NEIL: I know, and that‘s why it all finally fell apart last Wednesday, Joe. Elisabeth really nailed her and wouldn‘t let her down. And it was interesting the choice that Rosie made as a result. She turned around, and she left.
SCARBOROUGH: She did.
ADUBATO: It‘s good for Elisabeth‘s career, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: It is great for Elisabeth‘s career. And, you know, I‘ve been rooting for Elisabeth from the first time I ever saw her on “The View.”
By the way, you can get more on this by going to—what was that, again, Joescarboroughisgodoftheuniverse.com? Thank you, Rosie, for giving me that idea. Thank you, Steve Adubato, Tom O‘Neil.
Please stick around. Still ahead here, Lindsay Lohan back in rehab, and all it took was a DUI arrest. Back after her second stint this year? We‘re going to be talking about it with Adam Carolla. You know, this guy, he‘s got a fault, and maybe that fault is he cares too damn much.
And later, talk about bouncing back. Miss USA didn‘t leave her mark on the judges as much as she did left her mark on the stage. That and a lot more, coming up in “Hollyweird.” Yes, baby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Lindsay Lohan back in rehab, but not before one last night out on the town. God bless her. This is what the 20-year-old actress looked like yesterday morning, slouched over the front seat in the car, slack-jawed and eyes closed, after a night of partying at a Hollywood hotspot. And I swear to God, she did not look like that when I left her side.
That came less than 48 hours after police arrested her on suspicion of DUI and found cocaine in her crashed Mercedes. Lohan is now checked into the Promises facility in Malibu. That‘s the same place Britney Spears went for rehab. And while there, she was—there was no head-shaving, but she did have a public meltdown. And does this mean though, right now, for Lindsay Lohan, the beginning of the end?
To talk about it, radio talk show host Adam Carolla, and also Tom O‘Neil, senior editor for “InTouch Weekly.”
Adam, this is getting ugly. I mean, you know, this girl, Lindsay Lohan, this kid is out of control.
ADAM CAROLLA, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you assume she‘s out of control because you assume she was up late until 5:00 drinking, and then because she drank too much. I have another explanation. I say she got up extra early, she was going to work out in a cocktail dress and high heels, and she ate a bad energy bar and vomited. So she could have been on her way to the gym.
SCARBOROUGH: It‘s like the 2007 version of “Rocky,” if Rocky had taken the eggs, mixed it all up, drank it, going out in Philadelphia and stumbled...
(CROSSTALK)
CAROLLA: She‘s running through the streets of Los Angeles leaving a trail of vomit. By the way...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: What?
CAROLLA: I bet that vomit is going to be on eBay in a couple of weeks.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, actually, I think it may already be on there. Tom O‘Neil, I take it you have an alternative explanation.
O‘NEIL: We broke this story yesterday. We want full credit at “InTouch Weekly.” She arrived back at the scene of the crime, the club at the Hotel Roosevelt, two days later, as you just mentioned. She was, quote, unquote, “drinking everything that she could get her hands on” that was, you know, passing by. Keep in mind, she‘s still not 21. At 3:00 in the morning, they needed to give her—help security then to get out of the place. She gets past the door, and she falls down. Well, then security has to pick her up, throw her into that car, and that‘s the picture you see there, where she‘s splayed out, all zonked out.
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s the problem here? Seriously, what‘s the problem with this child?
O‘NEIL: She will not face facts that she has a problem. She keeps saying, as she did in a recent interview, “I don‘t really think I‘m an alcoholic or a drug addict. I just have a bit of a problem.”
SCARBOROUGH: Adam, I‘ll throw that same question to you. What is her problem?
CAROLLA: Her parents are enablers, well, her dad does it from the joint. But every time her mom gets interviewed, she just talks about her being a normal teenager who falls into shrubs on a daily basis. You know, I mean...
SCARBOROUGH: Her mom likes going to clubs with her, right?
CAROLLA: Yes. It‘s weird. By the way, I would have my dad pick me up down the street so no one would see me in front of our school. I couldn‘t imagine going out and clubbing with old man Carolla.
But her mom is in denial, and sort of a teenager herself, and what I would call an enabler. And then, as a society, we look at her as sort of a novelty. She has a life-threatening illness. I mean, you die of this kind of stuff everyday. I don‘t understand why—I mean, I know it‘s entertaining and it‘s funny, because she‘s rich, and she‘s good looking, and she‘s throwing up and crashing another car, but she‘s going to crash a car into one of our kids once. And then it‘s not going to be so funny.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Tom O‘Neil, that‘s the point. And that‘s why I was asking—you know, we joke about this, because people like joking at stars who act like fools, but this young woman, who actually has talent, unlike Paris Hilton, I mean, it‘s a tragedy waiting to happen here. And like Adam said, people die of this type of behavior all the time. It looks like—you know, what‘s she going to play, the younger, hotter version of Anna Nicole Smith?
O‘NEIL: That‘s where this is all heading, of course, if she gets behind that wheel again. Look, she was just in rehab at Wonderland rehab center just a few months ago. That‘s one of those places where you can check out during the day and at night. Before she checked out, finally, at the last day of rehab, she was in a club the night before. Now, this is the same place, when Britney checked in, she left the next day, remember, in a huff. So she came back on day three, but let‘s hope Lindsay stays put and stays in there for the full 30 days.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, let‘s hope so. I mean, it is a tragic story. And, again, you know, the mom does seem to be acting like an enabler right now. She needs parents. She needs guardrails, and they‘re not out there. Hey, thanks a lot, Tom O‘Neil.
Adam, stick around.
CAROLLA: I want to say something quickly. I don‘t want to volunteer to be Lindsay‘s dad or mom, but I will volunteer to be her weirdo older stepbrother, if that helps at all.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, get in line, brother. Get in line.
Coming up, another young celebrity stumbles, this time literally. The rise and fall of Miss USA straight ahead with Adam in “Hollyweird.”
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, rule number four in “Hollyweird,” trying not to pass out in front of the paparazzi if all possible. It‘s time for tonight‘s “Hollyweird.”
First up, Miss USA‘s fall from grace. Now, during last night‘s Miss Universe pageant, the contestant took a tumble in front of the judges, not to mention the entire universe. Here now to talk about it, comedian and syndicated radio talk show host, Adam Carolla.
You know, Adam, I‘m trying to figure out whether this was a dark day for the USA or a great day for men, in a sort of “Man Show” sort of way, men worldwide. What‘s your take on it?
CAROLLA: Well, first off, I‘m surprised this stuff doesn‘t happen more often. I mean, these chicks are hopped on Dexatrim, are wearing sequined gowns that weigh more than they do, and they‘re wearing stiletto heels walking on a freshly waxed black stage.
SCARBOROUGH: And your point is?
CAROLLA: And they‘re not supposed—I can‘t break in dress shoes without going down four or five times at a wedding. And they can‘t look at their feet. They walk like this. They can‘t look down, so I‘m surprised it doesn‘t happen. But the bigger story here, Joe, is the Mexican audience booing Miss USA.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, can you believe that?
CAROLLA: Please.
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s that about?
CAROLLA: What‘s it about?
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s that about, Adam?
CAROLLA: They‘re PO‘d. They don‘t like our new immigration reform, and they‘re pissed off about it, so they‘re booing a 19-year-old who probably wasn‘t even born in this country.
SCARBOROUGH: Look, exactly. And like I said earlier, we can kick their butts in soccer, so they need to just keep their mouths shut.
CAROLLA: Well, here‘s the thing, too. It‘s Miss Universe, and Miss USA didn‘t win Miss Universe. But whoever wins Miss Universe is going to come to the United States, so who‘s the real winner?
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And she‘ll probably never leave, either. You know, get a green card, she‘s sticking around, and we‘re paying for her Social Security and Medicare for the rest of her life.
CAROLLA: Right. Hey, they started booing her, and she should have been like, “Shut the hell up. First off, your country is a dump. Secondly, I know right now, if any of you could fit in my Samsonite, you‘d be in it tonight and coming back to the United States with me to drink some sweet tea and enjoy the air of freedom.”
SCARBOROUGH: The air of freedom.
CAROLLA: I don‘t know what that even meant.
SCARBOROUGH: I don‘t either, but, you know, I think, if I were hopped up on something, I probably would have said the same thing, Adam.
CAROLLA: Thank you.
SCARBOROUGH: A guy that has been hopped up on many things in his life
how‘s this for a segue—Paul McCartney says that writing “Say Say Say” with Michael Jackson didn‘t hold a candle to working with John Lennon. In a recent interview, McCartney said he was spoiled early on working with his Beatle band mate and other collaborators don‘t really compare.
I‘m not really sure why we have this one. I mean, working with Michael Jackson would seem to me to be a threat to your kids, actually, but I guess it talks about how low McCartney has gone since leaving the Beatles, right?
CAROLLA: Well, first off, Paul, that‘s not news to any of us that you and McCartney or you and Lennon made a great duo. If you listen to “Sergeant Pepper” or “Rubber Soul” compared to the crap that Paul‘s churning out now, have you heard his latest song? It‘s embarrassing. It really is embarrassingly bad. I‘m not exaggerating. Listen to the latest Paul McCartney single, and it‘s like the game has passed him by. I‘d rather see Ali get back in the ring than hear McCartney crap out another song.
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m such a huge...
CAROLLA: He was a genius. What happened?
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m such a huge McCartney fan. I know, it breaks my heart. Now, let me ask you this, Adam...
CAROLLA: Yes?
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s better than seeing Britney Spears and K-Fed on the same stage?
CAROLLA: I don‘t know.
SCARBOROUGH: Seeing mini versions of the former pop couple on the same stage. Watch this.
Adam, it gets no better than that, huh?
CAROLLA: Listen, I rarely agree with the terrorists, but I understand why they hate us after seeing these kinds of videos. I do. They do have certain points. You have to give them that.
SCARBOROUGH: Oh, thank you so much, Adam. And, remember, I‘m pulling double-duty this week. You can catch me starting at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning right here on MSNBC for “Morning Joe.” I‘m going to be joined by Willie Geist and John Ridley, as well as Zbigniew Brzezinski, along with our guest tomorrow, Dan Rather, and Alan Dershowitz. Also, columnist Mike Barnicle.
That‘s all the time we have for tonight. We‘ll see you back here tomorrow night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. But next, “To Catch a Con Man.” NBC‘s Chris Hansen takes on a different type of predator.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
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