Let's move on back home and talk about the controversial
appointment
of
Roland Burris
by
Illinois governor
Rod Blagojevich
. Back when this story first broke, when the charges of corruption were brought against Governor
Blagojevich
, you put him on notice. And you had a letter that was signed by all
Senate Democrats
that said, in part, the following:"We write to insist that you step down as governor of
Illinois
and under no circumstance make an
appointment
to fill the vacant
Illinois Senate
seat. Please understand that should you decide to ignore the request ... and make an
appointment
we would be forced to exercise our
Constitutional
authority under
Article 1
,
Section 5
, to determine whether such a person should be seated." In other words, you can reject that
appointment
. You did that because Governor
Blagojevich
defied that letter, defied you. He appointed
Roland Burris
.
Roland Burris
also defying you. He spoke on
MSNBC
to
Rachel Maddow
this week, and this is what he said:
MR. ROLAND BURRIS:
I have been legally appointed by the governor of our
state
, and my hope and prayer that my Democratic colleagues will recognize that what they are doing is not in
anyway form, shape or fashion legal. To deny me the seat based on some allegations by the appointee -- by the appointer really does not lend itself to disqualify me as a unqualified person to be appointed.
MR. GREGORY:
What is your basis for denying him?
SEN. REID:
Blagojevich
obviously is a corrupt individual. I think that's pretty clear. And the reason that he's done what he's done is to divert attention from the arrest that was just made of him and the indictment which will be coming in a few days, according to the
U.S. attorney
in
Illinois
. That's why
President-elect Obama
agreed with us that Mr.
Burris
is tainted. Not as a result of anything that he's done wrong. There's -- I don't know a thing wrong with Mr.
Burris
. It's not the person that has been appointed, it's the appointee. If
Blagojevich
would do the right thing, that is step down, or he'll probably be impeached. And he gave us Mr.
Burris
, he gave us
Jesse Jackson Jr.
,
Danny Davis
,
Madigan
, all the fine people who we have from
Illinois
, they would be taken care of just like this.
MR. GREGORY:
Well, you, you say he's an obviously corrupt person. He has not been formally charged, no has -- nor has he had a chance to confront the evidence against him. Are -- isn't that a rush to judgment?
SEN. REID:
We have to understand that this man has had a cloud over him prior to his arrest. That's why the
Illinois state legislature
's moving forward expeditiously -- in fact, next week -- to start impeachment proceedings. So I don't think, I don't think we have many cheerleaders for
Blagojevich
that he's an honest, upright citizen...
MR. GREGORY:
But...
SEN. REID:
...of the
state
of
Illinois
.
MR. GREGORY:
But he is still legally the governor. He's doing business. He's been accused but not convicted of anything, and not even formally accused. And there's, there's nothing suggesting that the
appointment
was at all illegal.
SEN. REID:
It --
Danny Davis
, a fine congressman from the
state
of
Illinois
, was offered, by
Blagojevich
, the job.
MR. GREGORY:
Mm-hmm.
SEN. REID:
He said, "I can't accept this because my constituents, the people
state
of
Illinois
, would never accept me based on the cloud you have over you." And that's the problem we have. Now, what we're going to do is I'm, I plan on meeting with him and Senator
Durbin
on Wednesday. That's my understanding. We're going to visit with him.
MR. GREGORY:
Roland Burris
, you're talking about?
SEN. REID:
That's right,
Roland Burris
.
MR. GREGORY:
Mm-hmm.
SEN. REID:
And we would hope that in the meantime
Blagojevich
, with the impeachment proceedings that are ongoing against him, would do the right thing, step down. And then if
Pat Quinn
-- who I've spoken to, a very fine man who's the lieutenant governor -- would become the
acting governor
or the governor, he wants to appoint
Burris
or anyone else, that would be fine. There is a cloud over
Blagojevich
, and at this stage a cloud over the
state
of
Illinois
. They don't have a vote. And if -- as long as
Blagojevich
has done the appointing, it's really a tainted
appointment
.
MR. GREGORY:
If
Burris
shows up, you won't seat him?
SEN. REID:
Well, we're going to do what we have to do, and we're going to follow all legal precedents. We think that we're pretty clear on what we believe is the law, and the precedent in the
United States Senate
that we are, we are the ones that determine --
Democrats
and
Republicans
determine who is going to sit in the
Senate
. It's been that way since before
1800
.
MR. GREGORY:
Well, let me press you on that point. A, a critical editorial on the
LA Times
made this argument:"The
Constitution
says that each house of
Congress
`shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members' and may punish members for `disorderly behavior' or, on a two-thirds vote, expel a sitting member. Neither provision justifies excluding a senator because of the unrelated wrongdoing of the governor making the
appointment
. ... It's doubtful whether the
Senate
could refuse to seat ... any duly elected member who met age, residency and citizenship requirements. In
1969
, the
Supreme Court
overturned a resolution by the
House
barring Representative
Adam Clayton Powell Jr
. from taking his seat.
Powell
had been accused of financial improprieties. ... Exasperated as they are at being outfoxed by
Blagojevich
, his colleagues and critics must face the fact that he is still the governor of
Illinois
and empowered to appoint an interim
U.S. senator
. It's not a pretty situation, but it's the law."
SEN. REID:
The
LA Times
is wrong. They use the
Powell
case as precedent, that's not in keeping with what the problem is here today. They were talking at that time about the qualifications of
Adam Clayton Powell
, and the
Supreme Court
said, "We are not going to deal with the qualifications of
Adam Clayton Powell
." This is totally a different situation. This is not dealing with the appointee. I think everyone that I've talked to said that
Burris
is a good guy. We're talking about a cloud over anyone that comes from the
state
of
Illinois
, being appointed by
Blagojevich
.
MR. GREGORY:
But what in the
Constitution
allows you to judge
Roland Burris
in, in this manner, to not seat him?
SEN. REID:
The
LA Times
quoted part of it itself from the
Constitution
: We determine who sits in the
Senate
, and the
House
determines who sits in the
House
. So there's clearly
legal authority
for us to do whatever we want to. This goes back for generations.
MR. GREGORY:
Senator, isn't this really all about politics? Isn't your primary consideration who you deem to be electable in
2010
?
SEN. REID:
No, I don't think so. This situation is this. I've spoken to the governor of the
state
of
Colorado
, because that's my responsibility as majority leader. There is --
Ken Salazar
's going to be interior secretary. And we had some wonderful conversations. Governor
Ritter
asked me how he felt -- how I felt about the opening. I told him what a great guy
Salazar
was. He talked about different candidates. And I said to him, "Governor, you appoint whoever is best in your mind for the
state
of
Colorado
." And he did. He came up with
Bennet
, kind of someone that not a lot people have known about. But what we hear about him now is that he's...
MR. GREGORY:
This is
Michael Bennet
...
SEN. REID:
Yeah.
MR. GREGORY:
...the school chief out there.
SEN. REID:
Going to be, going to be a new senator from the
state
of
Colorado
.
MR. GREGORY:
Yeah.
SEN. REID:
New York
. I've spoken to Governor
Paterson
several times. He's asked me how I feel about
Caroline Kennedy
, as an example, which I think is terrific. But I always said to
Paterson
, "You appoint whoever you want." And my one conversation with
Blagojevich
-- had a number...
MR. GREGORY:
Yeah.
SEN. REID:
...of conversations with the
Colorado governor
and the
New York governor
-- "
Blagojevich
, make sure you give us someone who can hit the ground running." Of course we're concerned about what happens in
2010
, but this has nothing to do with
2010
. It has everything to do with the corrupt governor.
MR. GREGORY:
All right, but let, let's talk about those conversations you had with Governor
Blagojevich
. Apparently you made it clear that three men were not acceptable to you:
Jesse Jackson Jr.
,
Danny Davis
,
Emil Jones
. And yet you just said
Jesse Jackson
would be fine. Is that what you said, that these men would not be acceptable?
SEN. REID:
This is part of
Blagojevich
's cloud. He's making all this up. I had a conversation with him. I don't remember what was in the conversation, other than the generalities that I just talked about. I didn't tell him who not to appoint. He's making all this up to divert attention...
MR. GREGORY:
Don't you think these conversations are on tape?
SEN. REID:
Of course.
MR. GREGORY:
For the
U.S. attorney
's investigation?
SEN. REID:
I'm, I'm sure they are. But -- that's right. And that's why what he's saying, he's making it up.
MR. GREGORY:
So he's wrong,
Jesse Jackson Jr.
was always acceptable to you?
SEN. REID:
Jesse Jackson Jr.
is somebody that I think would be a good senator. And for
Blagojevich
to start throwing out these names of people who I wanted and didn't want...
MR. GREGORY:
Mm-hmm.
SEN. REID:
...he's making it up.
MR. GREGORY:
People close to
Roland Burris
are raising another suggestion, and this is how Politico reports it this morning:"Top advisers to [
Burris
] are suggesting that
Reid
doesn't want an
African-American
to succeed
Obama
. `It's interesting that all those who are viable are white women and the ones who are unacceptable are black men,' Prince
Riley
, a senior consultant to
Burris
, told Politico." Your response?
SEN. REID:
I have no idea who Prince
Riley
is. But I do know that I've served in the
United States Senate
with two outstanding senators,
Carol Moseley Braun
and
Barack Obama
, both
African-Americans
from the
state
of
Illinois
. I worked harder than anyone in this country for
Ron Kirk
running for senator, senator for the
state
of
Texas
. As a
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee
, we spent more money in the
state
of
Tennessee
than any
state
in the country trying to get
Harold Ford
elected. I have -- anyone that suggests there's any racial bias in this instance doesn't realize I went to the
Clark County
district attorney's office to find a -- people thought was a nobody to become a
federal judge
,
Johnnie Rawlinson
. She was a great judge. She's now on the
Ninth Circuit
. I did that myself. So anyone to suggest anything racial is part of the
Blagojevich
spin to take away from the corruption that's involved his office in
Illinois
.
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