updated 7/8/2009 10:16:42 AM ET 2009-07-08T14:16:42

Guests: Courtney Hazlett, Jinah Kim, Jeff Rossen, Stephen A. Smith, Donny Deutsch, Bill Werde, Bill Press, Eamon Javers, Karen Hanretty, Richard Winton, Tricia Rose, Mark Goodman

ED SCHULTZ, HOST:  Good evening, Americans. 

Live from 30 Rock in New York, it‘s THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.

The “King of Pop” was given a final farewell today.  It was a service to remember.  There was celebration of his life and tremendous emotion to go with it.

We‘ll have reaction surrounding the story and the rest of the sound from the memorial, the absolute best sound.

This music was fantastic, the speeches were just fantastic, including the memorable moment when Michael Jackson‘s young daughter, Paris, spoke about her dad.

Plus, the big political story.  Sarah Palin has left the door wide open for a political future, and the head of the GOP absolutely loves it.

Al Franken is officially in the U.S. Senate, but the 60th vote may not be coming so easy on the big issues. 

We‘ll have all of that later for you later in the show.  But first, the Jackson story tonight. 

There could be no better celebration of Michael Jackson‘s life and career.  It was an emotional day for Jackson fans and especially his family. 

The moment that everyone will be talking about for days and possibly years to come, Michael Jackson‘s daughter, Paris Jackson, decided she wanted to say good-bye to her father. 


PARIS JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON‘S DAUGHTER:  Every since I was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine.  And I just wanted to say I love him so much. 


SCHULTZ:  What a touching moment. 

MSNBC.com‘s Courtney Hazlett was inside the Staples Center today.  She joins us now. 

Courtney, there were so many moments to remember, but that was such a captivating moment.  And I just don‘t think it could be outdone in any way.  And it was so real and so emotional. 

What was it like being in there seeing that? 

COURTNEY HAZLETT, MSNBC.COM:  You know, first of all, I want to say, I was very honored to be there today. 

When I saw Paris—sorry, I‘m having some ear piece problems—it really made—there wasn‘t a dry eye in the house.  If you didn‘t get teared up, I mean, your heart is cold.  I can go so far as to say that. 

One of the amazing things about Paris saying that was that it was so raw.  It was this moment, too, where kids can‘t fake that.  And we‘ve heard so much about Michael Jackson, he might not be a good father, or, you know, what type of man was he? 

You know what?  Paris put a period on the end of this sentence.  He was a good father. 

And I think today it‘s very important that that‘s what we focus on, we don‘t take that away from him.  He was an important person in this family, and I emphasize the word “person” because it‘s easy to forget that. 

And, you know, tomorrow is a new day.  And we‘re going to—as journalists continue to follow this story.  But that moment really did say, this is lightning in a bottle.  Paris said who her father was and brought this very divisive family together as well.  And that‘s saying something for a little girl who is quite, quite brave. 

SCHULTZ:  Courtney, how emotional was the crowd today inside the Staples Center? 

HAZLETT:  You know, it was really magical in some ways because they were emotional.  The highest of highs and the lowest of lows, and that was the brilliance, really, of the way this production was staged. 

You had really fantastic moments of singing.  I keep going back to the “We Are the World” moment when it was suddenly, like, 1986 in there again.  And people were standing up and swaying and holding hands.  I remember that when it came out.  And then there were times, like you saw with Paris, it was just very sad and very touching. 

And I think the honor here is that for 90 minutes, we were a part of Michael Jackson‘s world.  You know, this wasn‘t just a celebrity who had celebrity friends come up and say some nice things.  It was real.  It was relatable. 

We heard about eating fried chicken on the floor.  It was a fantastic tribute to a man who was just a pop culture unifier. 

And I keep going back to this, we‘ve been getting criticized about how we‘re not covering some of the darker periods of his life.  Listen, we are.  We‘re not forgetting that. 

In the days to come we‘re going to hear a lot more.  But today, this is about Michael Jackson‘s impact on history.  And I just thought it was pitch perfect and fantastic. 

SCHULTZ:  I also thought a very profound moment was when Reverend Al Sharpton spoke to the children of Michael Jackson. 

What was that like? 

HAZLETT:  One of the biggest responses in the house is what that was like.  I mean, people didn‘t just cheer, they roared.  It was truly magical. 

And I also liked when Brooke Shields spoke as well, and she said the reason she and Michael Jackson got along so well is because they had to grow up very fast.  But when they were together, they could be very young.  And that defines the challenge of being a child star and really why these two very different people could come together. 

And that‘s exactly what Michael Jackson did in his life, and I believe will continue in his death, as he brings very many different people from different walks of life together.  And everything about this service today really spoke to that. 

SCHULTZ:  Courtney, thanks for joining us tonight.  Thanks so much. 

Great reporting out there. 

Michael Jackson‘s brother, Jermaine Jackson, was the one member of the Jackson 5 to perform.  He took the stage fighting back tears and sang the song “Smile.”


SCHULTZ:  And just before Jermaine took the stage, we learned from Brooke Shields that “Smile” was Michael‘s favorite song. 

Let‘s bring in NBC‘s Jinah Kim.  She‘s standing by live at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. 

Jinah, what is happening there tonight, and is this emotion continuing on at this private celebration tonight? 

JINAH KIM, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Well, unfortunately, only invited guests are being allowed inside the Regent Beverly Wilshire, so we can‘t tell you.  We do have a producer in there who‘s confirmed for us that the family members have arrived.  Usher, Wesley Snipes, Brooke Shields, they are all in there with the family, along with hundreds of other people. 

But it is an invite-only list that is in there right now.  And by all accounts, this is where all of the events of today, all the emotional and probably at times stressful events of the day, will end for the family.  After this, we presume they will go back home. 

But right now they are really enjoying time with their closest friends, those who—some of them did not make it to Staples.  They simply wanted to be here for some private time with the family, and that‘s what we are being told is happening behind me here at the Regent Beverly Wilshire - Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.  Thank you, Jinah, for that report. 

And NBC‘s Jeff Rossen is outside the Staples Center where the memorial took place. 

Jeff, how are fans reacting to this afternoon‘s event? 


I spoke with several fans.  Look, they were touched by it.  You know, and how could you not be, especially after seeing the material with the children?  I mean, that‘s what really touched, I think, a lot of people most, is not the celebrities, not the songs, but the children. 

And that‘s really where the focus now goes, to this custody battle that may be coming ahead on Monday as you sort of look forward.  Now that he‘s been memorialized, there is a court hearing about custody.  You have the estate still up in the air.  And you have this drug investigation. 

I spoke with the police chief here in Los Angeles, Bill Bratton, just a short time ago, who told me they are aggressively questioning doctors, cohorts of Michael Jackson‘s, his inner circle, to figure out what caused his death, if drugs were a part of that death, and, if so, were doctors wrong in prescribing him drugs that he didn‘t need and contributed to his death?  And so there are a lot of questions in the air now as we sort of look forward from where we were today. 

SCHULTZ:  Jeff Rossen, thanks so much.  The story will continue. 

Of course, Michael Jackson was an inspirational figure to many African-Americans. 

Joining us to talk about his impact, Stephen A. Smith, journalist and commentator. 

Don‘t we all want to be remembered like that?  Wasn‘t this absolutely fabulous today? 

STEPHEN A. SMITH, JOURNALIST:  Oh, it was pitch perfect.  There‘s no denying that.  I mean, from Mariah Carey and Usher, to Reverend Al Sharpton and his wonderful speech, to Brooke Shields reminiscing about their time together, to his brothers, to Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant, Smokey Robinson, as well, talking about how this 10-year-old kid captured the heart and soul of what he was trying to display when he wrote the song for the Jackson 5, all of those things just came together today.  There was not any mistakes whatsoever that I could think of.  It was absolutely perfect. 

SCHULTZ:  You know, Stephen, that moment when Paris said what she said, all the things that have ever been said about Michael Jackson or thought about Michael Jackson, that really gave, I think, the world a window that anyone would love to see. 

SMITH:  Well, of course. 

SCHULTZ:  That was just an unbelievable moment. 

SMITH:  It reminded the world that this guy was a father, that when you talked about him and kids, actually, he loved kids.  He loved being a father.  That was one of his biggest aspirations.  And what she did with those very few words was remind the world how much Michael Jackson actually loved being a father to his children. 

SCHULTZ:  The emotional humor that came out with it as well was a real flavor to it as well, I thought. 

SMITH:  Well, there‘s no question about it.  I mean, everybody was letting their personalities flow.  And they were bringing out the personality of Michael Jackson, the Michael Jackson that most of us did not know.  And I think that that was extremely important to bring forth, because a lot of people weren‘t paying too much attention to that in the last few days. 

SCHULTZ:  He will live on through the music.  What kind of an impact do you think he‘ll have on the African-American community for years to come?  Especially the music? 

SMITH:  Well, he‘ll have a profound impact simply because his music will have a profound impact.  And that‘s what the African-American community will choose to remember him for. 

And I think that‘s what ultimately overrides everything.  When you think about (INAUDIBLE), “Thriller,” “Bad,” it doesn‘t matter, the list goes on and on. 

I was listening to his music last night.  I was playing his music all day long during the Fourth of July because his music is the greatest ever.  And that‘s what we‘ll choose to remember him by more so than anything else. 

It doesn‘t mean that you forget everything else, but what he will be remembered for most, more than anything, will be his music, there is no question.  And as well as his humanitarian efforts. 

SCHULTZ:  What about the Al Sharpton sound bite, his contribution today, speaking to the kids?

SMITH:  It was profound, but at the same time, first of all, everybody wouldn‘t agree with what he said.  But it was more than appropriate for him to say that, because he was directing it at Michael Jackson‘s children.  And what he was saying, listen, your father may have been strange to everybody else, but he was not strange.  The circumstances were strange.

What he was saying to those kids were, this is how we want you to remember your dad.  And because he was directing that message to Michael Jackson‘s children, as opposed to just the viewing public, it was more than appropriate and definitely classy.

SCHULTZ:  Let‘s review that moment when Al Sharpton had this to say at the memorial service today.


REV. AL SHARPTON, ACTIVIST:  And I want his three children to know, there wasn‘t nothing strange about your daddy.  It was strange what your daddy had to deal with it.

He dealt with it anyway.  He dealt with it for us. 

So, some came today, Mrs. Jackson, to say good-bye to Michael.  I came to say thank you.

Thank you because you never stopped.  Thank you because you never gave up.  Thank you because you never gave out.

Thank you because you tore down our divisions.  Thank you because you eradicated barriers.  Thank you because you gave us hope.


SCHULTZ:  What will you remember about Michael Jackson and his impact?

SMITH:  I‘ll remember his music.  I‘ll remember the impact that he had, a lot like what Reverend Al Sharpton was alluding to, because he broke down barriers and made the path easier for a lot of us in so many different industries to really excel and move forward. 

That‘s what I‘ll remember most about him. 

Of course, you don‘t forget everything else that comes with the package, but at the same time, the overriding issue is that he was pretty much the greatest entertainer of all time. 

SCHULTZ:  You know, Stephen, I don‘t think a lot of people understood his global impact—you know, his global impact... 


SMITH:  Well, they didn‘t understand that because they didn‘t want to. 

SCHULTZ:  Yes.  He reached so many generations. 

SMITH:  If you know anything about music, you know what kind of impact he has.  If you studied the man at all, and his humanitarian efforts, his philanthropy, you must have known what he was doing. 

Unfortunately, because of some of the questionable decisions that some people allege he may have made throughout his adult life, the reality is that taints everything else he did.  But it doesn‘t mean that you eradicate it all together and you forget it.  Nobody is going to forget the impact that this man has had. 

SCHULTZ:  Stephen A. Smith, great to have you with us. 

SMITH:  My pleasure. 

SCHULTZ:  Thank you.

Seven hundred and fifty million albums sold in his lifetime, but imagine what happens next with the Michael Jackson brand. 

Donny Deutsch joins us next on THE ED SHOW to talk about that next. 

Stay with us. 


SCHULTZ:  The “King of Pop” was laid to rest today.  Michael Jackson had an incredible impact on American pop culture, and it will live on. 

Jackson‘s impact will be felt through the music for generations to come.  Part of that impact carries a big financial price.  Jackson sold 750 million albums, and it won‘t stop anytime soon. 

For more, let‘s turn to Donny Deutsch, chairman of Deutsch Incorporated, a $2.5 billion ad agency. 

It only gets bigger from this point on.  At least that‘s my instinct. 

What‘s yours? 

DONNY DEUTSCH, CHAIRMAN, DEUTSCH INCORPORATED:  Before I get to the business, I want to—first, my condolences to the Jackson family, particularly those kids.  Watching that daughter as a dad, your heart breaks. 

Having said that—and it‘s a loss—I think as a country, we‘ve lost our minds a little bit.  And I‘m not even talking about these allegations against him, because we live in a country where you‘re proven (sic) until found innocent. 

He was a wonderful singer and dancer.  But this deification—you know, in the last few days there are other Americans that have died.  Kenneth Reusser died at 89.  He flew 253 combat missions in three wars.

Sylvia Levin (ph) died at 91.  She registered more than 47,000 voters six days a week, Republicans and Democrats. 

The same day Michael Jackson died, Lieutenant Brian Bradshaw, fighting for his country in Afghanistan, 24 years old.  This man was a wonderful singer and dancer.  That‘s what he was.  He brought music to us. 

But I would have thought I was watching one of the great world leaders of all time.  And I think as a country, we‘ve lost our way a little bit. 

It‘s a tragic loss for his family.  But the millions of other people that it‘s a loss in their lives, I‘m just—I‘m struggling a little bit.  And I don‘t want to be the cold-hearted guy, because I‘m a dad.  And as I said, his children, my heart goes out to them.  But he sang and danced. 

Have I lost my way here? 

SCHULTZ:  No, you haven‘t. 

DEUTSCH:  Am I going to be the most hated man on television right now? 

SCHULTZ:  No, because when my dad died, when my mom died, I mean, I felt just as bad as anybody else. 

DEUTSCH:  Of course.  And anybody‘s family, my heart goes out.  But people were crying in the streets that don‘t know him, they need to maybe get a little bit of a life. 

SCHULTZ:  But when John Lennon died, there was the same reaction. 

When Elvis died, there was the same reaction. 

DEUTSCH:  It wasn‘t quite the same reaction when John Lennon died.  I don‘t think there was.

SCHULTZ:  Well, I thought it was pretty close. 



SCHULTZ:  The music and the arts have such an important place in our country.  But it also has a strong impact on our soul. 

DEUTSCH:  I think our soul—this country, we‘ve lost our way a little bit.  Really, that‘s what—beyond the sorrow, I was feeling for his family and particularly his children.  I cried when I listened to his daughter.  But as far as we as a country deifying this man with the way people give their lives, there are doctors that died.

A Dr. Richard...


SCHULTZ:  No one will disagree with that.  No one disagrees with that. 

DEUTSCH:  But we‘ve lost our way as a country.  And nobody will say it. 

SCHULTZ:  But it‘s the—and I‘m not trying to, you know...

DEUTSCH:  But I‘m the bad guy here.

SCHULTZ:  No, you‘re not.  You‘re not the bad guy. 

DEUTSCH:  There are heroes giving their lives for this country...

SCHULTZ:  That‘s very true.

DEUTSCH:  ... and we in the media stand by.  And yes, he was an amazing singer and dancer.  That‘s what he was, a singer and a dancer.  An amazing one. 

SCHULTZ:  But he had an impact on a lot of people‘s lives.  And people...

DEUTSCH:  I think (INAUDIBLE) there‘s more impact on most others‘ lives. 

SCHULTZ:  I don‘t disagree with that.  But people knew who Michael Jackson was, and he connected with more people than those who have been unselfish and sacrificed for this country. 

DEUTSCH:  But the message we need to start sending to our children, speaking of children, are the heroes in life that don‘t get talked about and that we, as the media, because it‘s a great media story, and because it gets eyeballs—and no, we don‘t report the planes that land safely.  I understand that.  I‘m not an idiot. 

And once again, I don‘t want to be the bad guy here, but I just think we as a society have lost our way a little bit.  I just think we have. 

And it‘s a tragic loss.  He was a great singer and dancer.  That‘s what he was. 

I don‘t think he changed lives.  I don‘t think music changes lives.  I think it enhances lives.  I mean, it‘s beautiful. 

I think war heroes change lives.  They protect our country.  I think doctors do.  I think school teachers do. 

SCHULTZ:  But you know, Donny, you know this from being in the business that you‘re in.  When you live in a fishbowl, the world wonders what it‘s like. 

DEUTSCH:  Right.

SCHULTZ:  Today, when that little girl, Paris, got up there and said what she said, we got a window to the Jackson family. 

DEUTSCH:  He was a wonderful father, like...

SCHULTZ:  We got a window to their inner peace, to their love and respect and admiration which warms the heart. 

DEUTSCH:  It does warm the heart. 

SCHULTZ:  It warms the heart. 

DEUTSCH:  It does warm the heart.  My statement, as a guy who follows culture, who follows trends, who markets for a living, and follows individuals, is my heart goes out to the family.  But as what we—how we elevate in this culture for the effect it has, I think we overreact.  And if I landed on mars, I would have...

SCHULTZ:  So all of this was an overreaction today? 

DEUTSCH:  I would have thought if I landed there, I would have thought one of the great world leaders of the last three centuries passed away today who was responsible for saving tens of millions of lives if I didn‘t know any better.  And we have to start examining ourselves in the media for the way we look at things.  And that‘s all I‘m saying here. 

So I‘m the bad guy. 


DEUTSCH:  I‘m going to get thousands of millions of letters here.  But I think I‘m saying what a lot of people are feeling, frankly.

SCHULTZ:  We are the network of a lot of opinions. 


SCHULTZ:  Donny, good to have you in tonight.  Thanks so much. 

Coming up, Michael Jackson changed everything in the music video world.  He created some of the most enduring images ever seen on the small screen. 

One of the original MTV veejays joins us to talk about that exceptional legacy later in this hour on THE ED SHOW, right here on MSNBC. 




SMOKEY ROBINSON, SINGER:  I wrote that song.  I thought I sang it.  I did not believe that someone that young could have that much feeling and soul and know. 


SCHULTZ:  That was Smokey Robinson at today‘s memorial in Los Angeles. 

The sheer magnitude of Michael Jackson‘ popularity brought about huge changes in the music industry, one that will never be forgotten or maybe never matched. 

Here to talk more about that is Bill Werde.  He is the editorial director of “Billboard” magazine. 

How do you capsulize it? 

BILL WERDE, “BILLBOARD” MAGAZINE:  Unprecedented, in a word.  You know, Billboard‘s a 115-year-old brand, and we‘ve seen things in the last couple of weeks that we‘ve never seen before. 

SCHULTZ:  Such as? 

WERDE:  Well, for the first time ever, for example, an artist whose albums were on the catalogue charts—they‘ve been out more than 18 months and weren‘t the current hits—outsold the top selling album in America on the “Billboard” chart.  So, last week it was the Black Eyed Peas that got trumped by three Michael Jackson albums.  This week, industry sources are telling me that a couple of Jackson‘s albums will likely outsell the number one album. 

SCHULTZ:  Bill, where do you think it‘s going to be a month from now, six months from now, a year from now? 

WERDE:  Well, I think a lot will depend on what additional releases we start to see.  And also the news cycle a little bit. 

But, you know, I think things are going to level off a little bit in the coming weeks.  I think next week‘s charts, even after this one, will still be all Michael Jackson because so much attention was paid to Michael with the tributes and with all the great things we‘ve seen in the last couple days.  But then after that, I think moving forward for the coming weeks, it‘s going to depend on re-issues and repackages and this original music that hasn‘t been released yet, these sorts of things. 

SCHULTZ:  But right now, the American people are focused on this, and those who love music are buying a piece of it.  And also the fact that you‘ve got new releases that are going to be coming out, stuff that‘s never been heard before.  That is going to grab a lot of people as well. 

Great for the industry.  He‘ll have an impact for years to come. 

WERDE:  Yes—no, it is great for the industry.  And you look at the way stars like Elvis or John Lennon, you know, some of these folks have continued to sell really solidly over the years.  And I think Michael Jackson‘s future is much in that vein. 

SCHULTZ:  What we saw today, Bill, is that going to enhance his image, his music sales, his impact in the industry? 

WERDE:  Yes.  I mean, it‘s a slam dunk for Michael Jackson. 

It‘s like—listen, for anyone who had lingering questions, I think those were set aside.  And over the last week or so, everyone‘s kind of taken a deep breath and just reembraced the music that made him a celebrity in the first place.  But honestly, when Paris got on stage and had that amazing unscripted moment, I mean, how can you still have doubts sort of about some of these things? 

SCHULTZ:  You can‘t.  It was a very human moment. 

WERDE:  A very human moment. 

SCHULTZ:  And with all the controversy and all the visibility, you wonder what it was really like.  That gave us a real sense of what this family has been going through.  I mean, that was a moment that I think Jackson fans are going to remember for decades. 

WERDE:  Yes. 

SCHULTZ:  That moment is going to be with that girl forever. 

WERDE:  Someone said earlier in the program, I mean, little girls can‘t lie.  Little children can‘t lie.  And that was such an honest moment. 

SCHULTZ:  Outstanding.  It was an outstanding moment. 

Bill, good to have you with us. 

WERDE:  A pleasure. 

SCHULTZ:  Thank you. 

Still to come, the barriers Michael Jackson broke not just in music, but in culture and in politics. 

And speaking of politics, there was a lot going on in the world today. 

Sarah Palin, Mark Sanford, Al Franken and Michael Steele all making news. 

Next up, we‘ll get you caught up on that on THE ED SHOW.

Stay with us right here on MSNBC.


SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  We‘re continuing to watch developments following today‘s Michael Jackson memorial in Los Angeles.  This afternoon, Michael‘s brother, Marlon, whose twin brother died shortly after birth, asked one last favor of the King of Pop. 


MARLON JACKSON, BROTHER:  I have one request, Michael, one request.  I would like for you to give our brother, my twin brother, Brandon, a hug for me.  I love you, Michael, and I‘ll miss you. 


SCHULTZ:  Much more coming up later in our broadcast. 

Moving on to politics tonight.  Several interesting stories today; the head of the GOP, Michael Steele, has open arms for Sarah Palin.  In a TV interview, Steele says he‘d like Palin‘s help to reorient the Republican party.  This fits with the political higher calling some in the Palin camp have talked about.  This opens the door for Palin to stay in the public eye and in the party mix.  It‘s all part of the plan. 

Palin gave an interesting interview to Andrea Mitchell, talking about the future and leaving the doors open. 


ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC ANCHOR:  What are you going to do next? 

GOV. SARAH PALIN ®, ALASKA:  Well, I look forward to, after handing the reins over, a smooth transition of power, to Sean Parnell, our lieutenant governor in the next few weeks—I look forward to getting out there and working hard for other people who want to fight for the right things, the right reasons that anybody would want to serve and help other people in or out of office. 

I want to fight for other people who want to get out there and effect that kind of change. 


SCHULTZ:  In other political news tonight, Al Franken checks into the United States Senate, becoming the second Minnesota senator, almost reluctant to remind his followers that he is number 60. 

And in South Carolina, Governor Mark Sanford has weathered the storm.  He will not be impeached.  The South Carolina Republican party voted to censure the governor, calling Sanford‘s behavior a breach of the public trust. 

And there are mixed signals coming from the White House.  Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel is telling the “Wall Street Journal” the White House might be willing to give up on the public option to get bipartisan support on health care reform.  If this is true, many Americans may view this as selling out to the Republicans and caving to the insurance lobby. 

Joining me now for more on all of this, radio talk show host, Bill Press, “Politico‘s” Eamon Javers joins us tonight, and also Republican strategist Karen Hanretty. 

Well, a lot of political news today.  Bill Press, I was watching you on Friday when this story broke.  You said nobody does it like this.  Her political career is over.  What do you make of Michael Steele now saying, hey, come on in and help us out?  What do you think? 

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Well, he‘s trying to throw her a lifeline, Ed.  Let me tell you, the weird news conference on Friday I think was only matched or surpassed by the weird interview she gave to Andrea Mitchell.  It‘s the first interview ever of a national politician in waders.  And Ed, you‘re a big fisherman.  

SCHULTZ:  Bill, you do remember the show last night.  Bill, we had the float planes going behind the state senator. 

PRESS:  The other thing is I‘ve got to say Michael Steele did say today that for 2012, it‘s out of the question for Sarah Palin.  I think that‘s the first honest thing I ever heard Michael Steele say since he‘s been chair. 

SCHULTZ:  Karen, what do you make of that?  Is it over for Sarah Palin?  It would seem to me a party with a struggling identity needs leadership right now, and I think we‘re finding out that she was the maverick in 2008, certainly going the unconventional route.  But if she‘s got a following, and if she can raise money, why wouldn‘t she be able to do something in 2012? 

KAREN HANRETTY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST:  Ed, you just hit on it.  I think she can raise money.  Look, there‘s a new Gallup Poll out that shows I think it‘s, you know, 58 percent of Americans think that she‘s being treated unfairly by the media.  And it‘s almost like—you know, Hillary Clinton; whenever Hillary was most under attack, her numbers went up.  And I think we‘re seeing something similar with Sarah Palin. 

I think she can go raise money for the Republican party.  I think Michael Steele who, you know, is not real popular among rank and file right now for a lot of gaffes he‘s made, is probably smart to embrace her.  Take her on the trail.  Kind of ride her coattails within the base of the GOP right now. 

Whether she has 2012 ambitions, I‘m not sure.  I don‘t personally see it, but, you know, crazier things have happened.  But I do think she can go help raise money.  I‘m curious to see how much she actually does for other candidates. 

SCHULTZ:  Eamon, you look at the Republican party and where they‘re polling right now, they‘re really not in a position to throw anybody under the bus.  They need all the friends they can get, don‘t you think? 

EAMON JAVERS, “POLITICO”:  Yes, these high-ranking Republican leaders keep imploding politically.  But I‘ll tell you, I talked to a high-ranking Republican Palin supporter today, and I asked him whether she‘s got a future in the Republican party.  And he said, look, she‘s got a future definitely.  She can raise the money if she wants to. 

And that‘s the question.  Does she really want this?  She‘s not behaving right now like somebody who wants to have a future in the Republican party as a presidential candidate.  Maybe on the lecture circuit, maybe on the talk show circuit.  Definitely.  But as a presidential candidate, she‘s not behaving that way right now. 

So they‘re looking at some of the fire in the belly question here with Sara Palin.  What does she want from her life going forward, whether it‘s her family, her state or her presidential ambitions? 

SCHULTZ:  What do you make, Bill Press, of Al Franken?  He‘s in the Senate.  He‘s downplaying that he is number 60.  Is that going to help or hurt the party in some big fights coming up? 

PRESS:  You know what?  Yes, he is number two for Minnesota, Ed.  But look, let‘s be honest, the big news is he‘s number 60.  I think, first of all, it‘s a huge opportunity for Democrats to really seize the reins of power, and do some great good for the American people now that they‘ve got the power. 

But it is also a time where we have to say no more excuses for Democrats.  They‘ve been saying they can‘t get things done because they need Republicans.  I think this is a chance for Democrats, forget the Republicans even exist.  Who cares what Chuck Grassley says about anything anymore?  They got the 60.  Run with it. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, in Minnesota, the “Star Tribune” had a poll out today, Karen, and 54 percent of the people who responded to it said that they thought he was going to be an awful senator. 

HANRETTY:  Fabulous.  Let me tell you something, though, everyone‘s calling him the 60th senator.  The reality is, if you want to pass health care, if you want to pass cap and trade, it doesn‘t fall on Al Franken‘s shoulders.  It falls on the moderates shoulders of Democrats like Mary Landrieu and Ben Nelson and others. 

This is—you know, Rahm Emanuel is out there saying well, we want to make this bipartisan.  We‘ve got to get Republican votes.  The reality is they don‘t have enough Democrat votes to pass either piece of legislation. 

SCHULTZ:  And Eamon Javers, we‘ll come back with you when we start again.  Stay with us, folks. 

For more on Michael Jackson, 20,000 fans came to the Staples Center in Los Angeles to celebrate Michael Jackson‘s life and music.  There are still questions about how he died. 

Joining me now is “Los Angeles Times” reporter Richard Winton.  Richard, good to have you on tonight.  What do you consider to be as a journalist the big questions that are out there surrounding the death of Michael Jackson? 

RICHARD WINTON, “THE LOS ANGELES TIMES”:  I think the biggest questions, clearly, was there medications involved?  Were there prescription drugs involved?  What exactly killed him? 

And ultimately we‘ll know that when we get the autopsy results with the toxicology.  But at this stage, clearly the law enforcement agencies here are pursuing the issue of whether prescription drugs and medications played an issue in his death.  We have unmarked medications, Diprivan, in his house, which seemingly came straight from a medical facility.  They weren‘t even prescribed out.  There were no names on them at all. 

SCHULTZ:  Now, looking at this police investigation, give our viewers a sense of just how intense all of this is in the community of Los Angeles. 

WINTON:  Well, I mean, obviously, it‘s daily news here and hourly news.  There are many tabloid news services covering this almost daily. 

There‘s intense local coverage, TV coverage.  And obviously this is a big -

you know, it‘s a what is it done it and it‘s a who done it.  Is this actually a death which was caused by another, or is it something he died of natural causes? 

And then we have the question separately is were people prescribing or giving medications to Michael Jackson which were plain-out illegal? 

SCHULTZ:  Earlier in this broadcast, Donny Deutsch came on and said that—well, some pretty interesting things that some other important people have died as well.  Has the recognition for Michael Jackson gone overboard?  Are there any in Los Angeles that think that this is over-kill to an extent that maybe this has all gone too far? 

WINTON:  Yes, I think there‘s a certain degree in the community who think, you know, has this just gone too far?  I think there‘s always—the death of a very well known person, very loved by some part of the community person—in the aftermath, there‘s often a real outpouring of love for that person.  You know, that‘s understandable.  We may now see some pulling back and sort of more analytical approach to what happened here. 

But in the short term, that‘s what a lot—there are a certain degree of people who are kind of shocked at the amount of adulation that he‘s received. 

SCHULTZ:  From the “L.A. Times,” Richard Winton with us tonight here on THE ED SHOW.

Coming up, what the success of Michael Jackson meant for black Americans.  You‘re watching THE ED SHOW right here on MSNBC.  Stay with us. 



BROOKE SHIELDS, ACTRESS:  We never collaborated together.  We never performed together or danced on the same stage, although he did try in vain.  One night he unsuccessfully taught me the Moon Walk.  And he just basically just shook his head and crossed his arms at my attempt. 

When he started wearing the glove, I was, like, what‘s up with the glove?  I‘m, like, look, if you‘re going to hold my hand, it better be the non-gloved one, because sequins really hurt me.  They would dig in.  He‘d just shake his head, and he would just smile. 


SCHULTZ:  There are so many iconic images of Michael Jackson, the Moon Walk, the costumes, the glove.  He broke a lot of racial barriers in the music industry, and made a lot of lasting impact on American culture.  For more, let me bring in Tricia Rose, Brown University professor of African-American culture and author of “Hip-Hop Wars.” 

Professor Rose, your take from what we saw, what we experienced today. 

How special was it? 

PROF. TRICIA ROSE, BROWN UNIVERSITY:  Well, I thought it was an extraordinary event today.  And I think it really speaks to—

SCHULTZ:  Unfortunately, we lost the microphone connection with Tricia Rose.  And we, of course, will try to get back her—get her back here on the program.  She is a Brown University professor of African-American studies, talking about his contribution.  We‘ll try to reconnect—

OK, we can go back to her now.  It‘s been a very hectic day covering all of this.  Our technical crew really has done a fabulous job considering all the things that we‘ve had to do today. 

Professor Rose, the impact of Michael Jackson.  Do you think the ceremony captured all of that and capsulized it today? 

ROSE:  I thought the ceremony was fabulous, and I think it‘s definitely a fitting tribute.  And in total contradiction to an earlier guest, I actually think that we need to understand him as far more than just a regular singer and dancer.  The outpouring for Michael Jackson around the world and his 45 years of extraordinary, not just performing music, has been just profoundly impactful. 

For example, he has elevated art forms to a spiritual level.  People feel a deep emotional and spiritual connection to his work.  So I think there would be an extraordinary outpouring whether the media covered it or not. 

I think, that said, that doesn‘t mean there‘s not other news to be covered and other heroes in the world.  But I think this kind of reduction of what he‘s about has been really our problem.  Frankly, I think we lost our way a long time ago.  And if we really listen to what Michael Jackson has been singing, we‘re much more likely to find it. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, you simply cannot argue with the incredible interest that is out there, the life and times and contribution of Michael Jackson.  The Michael Jackson Memorial is the single most streamed event in history of Yahoo.  Five hundred—excuse me, five million total streams.  Second biggest was the inauguration with 1.8 total streams. 

Does that—that pretty much speaks volumes of his impact right there, a snapshot of it.  But I want to give you an opportunity to respond to what Donny Deutsch said here earlier tonight on THE ED SHOW, professor, about maybe we‘ve gone overboard, and we don‘t really recognize other contributors to society.  What do you think? 

ROSE:  Well, I mean, look.  There‘s no doubt that there‘s a tendency to overplay certain media events once there‘s a lot of interest.  But I actually think that what we really have done in the case of Michael Jackson is we‘ve underestimated his extraordinary impact for a very long time.  And that now, in the face of his death, which is a bit late, I might say, we‘re really beginning to understand what it is people feel about him. 

And this isn‘t just about crazy fan behavior.  We‘re talking about millions, you know, tens of millions of people around the world who feel a deep connection not to him, per se, but to the spirit of what he expresses. 

We can‘t underestimate the power of beautiful art and music to connect and touch people.  I mean, you know, to say he was just a singer and a dancer is like saying Michelangelo was just a painter or Shakespeare was just a playwright.  We could make the claim that Jesus was just a carpenter. 

That would only make sense if we don‘t understand the power of the individual to create a spiritual connection.  And I think when we really begin to understand Michael in those ways, I think we‘ll get at the heart of what this frenzy‘s about. 

People are not downloading and watching Youtube just because the media is paying him attention.  There‘s something going on much deeper than that.  And it would behoove us to find our way by paying most close attention to it. 

SCHULTZ:  Professor Rose, Brown University, great to have you with us tonight and your insight on this.  Thank you. 

ROSE:  My pleasure, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  It wasn‘t just the sound, it was the sight of Michael Jackson, the dancing, the story telling.  It was about the videos.  Mark Goodman, one of the original MTV VJ‘s joins us next with his thoughts on his legacy.  It‘s next on THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. 



BERRY GORDY, FOUNDER MOTOWN RECORDS:  Michael was awesome, totally in charge.  In fact, the more I think and talk about Michael Jackson, I feel the King of Pop is not big enough for him.  I think he is simply—I think he is simply the greatest entertainer that ever lived. 


SCHULTZ:  That was Berry Gordy, who is the founder of Motown Records, today at the ceremony.  Michael Jackson sold 750 million records while he was alive.  He has the best-selling single of all time.  But his legacy, his musical legacy, is deeper than the numbers.  And today we heard artist after artist talk about the debt they owe to Michael Jackson‘s music. 

Joining me now in studio is one of the original MTV VJ‘s, now at Sirius Radio, Mark Goodman.  Mark, great to have you with us. 

MARK GOODMAN, SIRIUS RADIO:  Thanks for having me, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  If there‘s anybody that could really feel the impact as far as a career leading to another career, I think it would be you because of MTV and what Michael Jackson meant to MTV.  Those early years, what were they like? 

GOODMAN:  You know, it was the center of the universe.  And Michael was the center of the center.  It really was a great moment for both of us.  And he made us.  We made him. 

SCHULTZ:  And it was fun. 

GOODMAN:  It was beyond fun.  You know, for us at MTV, it became a day without a Michael Jackson news story was like a day without sunshine.  You know, we really needed that.  The fans needed it.  You know, we‘ve been talking a lot about “Thriller” and how great it was, how important it was. 

SCHULTZ:  Did you know—

GOODMAN:  Great moment. 

SCHULTZ:  -- when “Thriller” came out and the videos were out, did you think that it was going to be like this 20, 30 years later? 

GOODMAN:  Michael Jackson had something.  For days, we‘ve been hearing nothing but these superlatives and ultimates.  And even then, you knew.  “Billie Jean” was the first video we got.  That was great.  Then “Beat It.” 

That was even better.  Then “Thriller,” where it wasn‘t a video anymore. 

It was an epic piece.  It was beyond. 

SCHULTZ:  So what would MTV have been in the early days without a Michael Jackson, without that ability to capture? 

GOODMAN:  Well, Michael Jackson spearheaded something.  There was a change that was happening in music that really even our executives were a little bit behind.  There was a little bit of reticence to play Michael, but not—it wasn‘t a race issue.  It was a genre issue.  And we didn‘t quite realize what was happening.  And he led the charge. 

SCHULTZ:  He really did lead the charge in so many ways.  Of course, there‘s a lot of material that has not been released as of yet.  This is a sound cut from Tommy Mottola.  Let‘s listen to it.  Here it is. 


TOMMY MOTTOLA, MUSIC EXECUTIVE:  Twelve to 14 songs would end up on the album, just as you said.  There would probably be anywhere from 25 to 30 songs recorded.  Those songs are still in the can, unreleased.  At the end of the day, the decision was Michael‘s what to put on the album and what not.  That doesn‘t mean that the songs that were not released were not as great as the hits that you know. 


SCHULTZ:  Mark, where does it go from here? 

GOODMAN:  Well, as Tommy was saying, look, we are going to hear these pieces.  I‘m excited to hear them.  The fans are certainly excited to hear them.  I‘ve got to say I‘m a little nervous that there‘s things that were left off of “Thriller,” and then they were left off after compilations of thriller.  Michael didn‘t want them out.  I‘m not sure yet. 

SCHULTZ:  How good would he have been had he not been the dancer he was?  I mean, there wasn‘t anybody who could ever dance like this. 

GOODMAN:  Agreed. 

SCHULTZ:  He was made for video.  He was made for you guys. 

GOODMAN:  He absolutely was.  And he knew it, and we knew it.  I think you sell him short to say how great would he have been if he wasn‘t the dancer he was.  He was spectacular.  And that Motown 25th anniversary, that moment changed the world.  Everybody the next morning was talking about only that. 

SCHULTZ:  Now, with all of this coverage that‘s been going on, I want to say something that I think maybe hasn‘t been said. 


SCHULTZ:  What phenomenal dexterity and athletic ability.  His foot control, his leg control, who can do that? 

GOODMAN:  There‘s little subtleties to his dancing.  There‘s Spanish influences.  There‘s Broadway influences, jazz, tap, vaudeville.  Watch—when you watch him dance, watch his hands.  He knew exactly where his fingers were going to be. 

SCHULTZ:  And let me ask you this, Mark.  How great would this last concert tour have been? 

GOODMAN:  From all the looks of it, it looked like it would have been fantastic.  It‘s just the saddest thing ever that his comeback has to be posthumous. 

SCHULTZ:  Would it have had a greater impact than what we‘ve seen?  Would this really have added to the legacy and maybe something bigger than with a we saw back in the ‘80s? 

GOODMAN:  It seems that way from what we‘ve seen.  And I think partially because of the inspiration for him to do it.  It wasn‘t a cash grab.  It wasn‘t, I‘m back, let me sell more records, although certainly that would have happened. 

He was doing it for two reasons.  The first was his children.  He wanted his children to see why the world loved him.  And the second was for his fans. 

SCHULTZ:  Mark Goodman, you sound great on Sirius.  Great to have you with us tonight on THE ED SHOW. 

GOODMAN:  Thank you, sir. 

SCHULTZ:  Thank you so much.  That‘s THE ED SHOW.  I‘m Ed Schultz. 

“HARDBALL” Starts right now, right here on MSNBC.



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