updated 7/16/2009 9:47:45 AM ET 2009-07-16T13:47:45

Guests: Luke Russert, Ken Strickland, Steny Hoyer, Adam Smith, Maria Teresa Kumar, Ron Kind, Laura Flanders, John Feehery, Todd Webster

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED SCHULTZ, HOST:  I‘m Ed Schultz.  This is THE ED SHOW.

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SCHULTZ:  Good evening, Americans. 

Live from 30 Rock in New York, it‘s THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.

The Democrats, well, they want to overhaul health care and they want rich people to pay for it.  If you‘re making a million dollars a year, you‘re going to pay more.

I say go for it.

Majority Leader Steny Hoyer here tonight.  And also, acting chairman of the Senate, Chris Dodd, will join us in just a moment.

Shooter‘s under fire.  Karl Rove‘s coming to the rescue.  This is a dandy.  Rove says Congress is prone to leaking. 

Congressman Adam Smith will respond to all of that tonight. 

Doggone it.  I found out today, guess who‘s a fan THE ED SHOW?  It‘s the Drugster?  That‘s right.  Rush talking trash about me today. 

Rush, I‘ll tell you what, why don‘t you come on my program and we‘ll debate about anything you want to talk about?  Come right here on THE ED SHOW.

Be sure to watch my playbook tonight.  That‘s coming up.  You‘re going to love it. 

Plus, “Psycho Talk.”  All that, and a great panel.

But I want you to get your phones out, folks, because I‘m going to ask you, what do you think about paying for health care, the rich folks? 

But first, we‘ve got some breaking news tonight.  A lot going on.  We‘re waiting for the shuttle to take off at 6:03.  It‘s scheduled at that time, Eastern Time, to lift off tonight.

But first, there has been a shooting on Capitol Hill. 

Let‘s go right to NBC‘s Luke Russert on the phone. 

Luke, what can you tell us tonight? 

LUKE RUSSERT, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  What we know as of right now, Ed, is around 5:25, we got a tip that there was a shooting on the Senate side of Capitol Hill.  Ken Strickland, our producer up here, and myself ran over there around that time.  We were not allowed out of the building at around 5:30.

While waiting at the entrance, four paramedics in white jackets with their equipment bags sprinted by us and ran out to New Jersey Avenue, which is right off of Constitution, which is over on the Senate side.  We then went up to the third floor of the press gallery on the Senate and we were able to look down on the scene. 

There is possibly a green Mercedes-Benz, and it crashed.  And we saw the paramedics working on one victim who was taken away in an ambulance. 

Our cameraman who was outside at the time, who is combat-trained, reportedly heard automatic gunfire.  Now, we cannot say that that is 100 percent accurate.  That is what he reportedly heard.  The details will come out about that later, but he claims that he heard automatic gunfire and he saw one body being wheeled into an ambulance. 

SCHULTZ:  OK. 

NBC‘s Luke Russert on the Hill tonight. 

Luke, do we know what caused the shooting?  What was this all about? 

RUSSERT:  As of right now, we do not.  But the street where it took place, New Jersey Avenue, runs right into Constitution, and Constitution, which is a huge thoroughfare in Washington, D.C., was shut down for about 45 minutes.  It just reopened. 

The park around the area is still shut down.  Police officers will not let anyone close to getting there. 

We can all put in (ph) hypotheticals about what exactly happened.  We do not know.  One thing that people were hypothesizing was because the car there was some sort of accident.  Maybe this guy tried to rush in a barrier—it is a restricted street—and possibly got fired on upon that.  But we do not know anything for sure. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.

Luke Russert on Capitol Hill tonight for us on THE ED SHOW. 

And we‘re hearing that Pete Williams is reporting that it was a hit and run, and a pursuit followed. 

You‘re watching right now a live picture of the shuttle.  This is the sixth attempt to get the shuttle up into space, and it looks beautiful right now. 

The weather has held the delay back for recent days, but it‘s happening right now.  There you see it, the Shuttle Endeavour, which is carrying the last piece of Japan‘s space station lab. 

Obviously a joint effort, a very important one for the Japanese space program.  And their astronaut, of course, will be doing a number of spacewalks.  And Jay Barbree is there, and we‘ll talk to him a little bit later on in this program. 

So, a lot of anticipation.  A number of delays.  This is the sixth attempt, and it went off on schedule tonight, 6:03 Eastern Time.  The Shuttle Endeavor is off and going into space. 

And there you hear the throttle up. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The three engines on board are throttling back up.  Endeavour flying at 1,100 miles an hour, 10 miles in altitude, and 10 miles down range. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  There you have it, the shuttle off into space.  Good news. 

Now tonight‘s “OpEd.”

Once again, Republicans are lying.  Doggone it, we catch them every time, don‘t we?  This time, again, it‘s on health care. 

They‘re trying to scare the American people about health care reform. 

They‘re saying that your taxes are going to be going up. 

Well, that‘s only half true.  You see, the Democrats want a surtax to pay for health care.  That would affect 1.2 percent of the population who earn money in this country.  That‘s right, 1.2 percent.  The richest Americans would pay more.  Now, by my math, 98.8 percent of Americans would not have to pay an additional dime. 

Now, the highest surtax would be 5.4 percent.  That would be paid by people making over $1 million a year.  You know, people like Dick Cheney, George Bush, Paris Hilton, maybe the guys that were playing in the All Star game last night.  They‘re going to have to pay more.  The Hollywood crowd, they‘ve been willing to pay more all along to get health care. 

So the question you need to ask at home tonight, folks, is, do you really care if Dick Cheney and the rest of that crowd has to pay a little bit more so we can have health care in this country?  The sum total of this is, personally, I don‘t believe that the American people care if 1.2 percent of the American people have to pay more in tax to get health care in this country.  No one‘s saying that.

Now, I want to know, as far as the Democrats are concerned, what Democrats are going to protect the top 1.2 percent? 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  ... our efforts, should take a hard look at just what it is that they‘re defending. 

Over the last decade, health insurance premiums have risen three times faster than wages.  Deductibles and out-of-pocket costs are skyrocketing.  And every single day we wait to act, thousands of Americans lose their insurance. 

It‘s threatening financial stability of families, of businesses, and of government.  It‘s unsustainable and it has to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Well, there‘s no doubt the light bulb is definitely going on in the White House.  One of the president‘s top advisers, David Axelrod, says, gosh, you know, if we can‘t get this thing done with Republicans, we‘ll just have to go it alone.  That‘s what I like to hear.  We don‘t have to have bipartisanship. 

Now, that‘s kind of a different signal of what Rahm Emanuel was sending from a couple of weeks ago.  And today, President Obama sounded like he was losing the patience with the party of “no.”  And, of course, the whiners are crying foul. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JUDD GREGG ®, NEW HAMPSHIRE:  You know, the president threw out the first pitch last night for the All Star Game, but today the Democratic membership of the Health Committee struck out on the issue of the president‘s initiatives in health care.  It‘s just regrettable we were not allowed to be at the table when this bill was drafted so that we could have gotten those ideas into the bill. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Senators not at the table?

Senator Gregg, did I hear you correctly, that you weren‘t at the table? 

Folks, there are 160 Republican amendments in this bill.  Who the heck put them in there? 

Now, I‘m going to assume that they came from the Republicans.  We‘re trying to confirm that tonight. 

President Obama no doubt is on the offensive, and he is winning this war.  And it is an ideological war.  The House plan came out last night.  The Senate rolled out their plan today. 

We‘re going to talk about both of them right now.

Joining me right now is House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer.

Steny, great to have you with us tonight. 

You‘ve got that smile on your face because you know you‘re winning on this deal, don‘t you? 

REP. STENY HOYER (D), MAJORITY LEADER:  Well, I know you‘re as delightful and interesting as always, Ed.  That‘s what I know. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, you know, we‘ve been banging away at this for a long time.  The American people want this.  I think last night and today we really saw some positive steps forward. 

HOYER:  Ed, I think you‘re absolutely right.  And I think we need to remember this—some people say, gee, this is sort of being popped up in a short period of time. 

During the last year, 2008, John McCain, Hillary Clinton and President Obama all talked about health reform being a major objective of their administrations should they be elected.  So, every one of the major candidates said this is where we ought to go.  It wasn‘t that they agreed on every facet of every bill, but they said we must have health care reform.  And that‘s what we‘re doing.

SCHULTZ:  Senator, are you going to get any Republicans in the House on board with this? 

HOYER:  I‘m not sure that we are.  I met with Republicans today, some of the moderate Republicans who, in my opinion, want to see health reform.  They want to see some changes made in the bill. 

As you said, we in the House are going to have a markup of the Energy and Commerce Committees.  It‘s probably going to take four or five days.  I‘m sure a lot of amendments are going to be offered by Republicans and Democrats to perfect this bill. 

So, the answer is, they‘re going to be at the table.  They‘re going to have an opportunity to make their case.  And hopefully they‘re going to join with us in doing what John McCain said was necessary, Hillary Clinton said was necessary, and President Obama said was necessary.  And he pledged he would do that for the American people. 

SCHULTZ:  Steny Hoyer, majority leader, with us here tonight on THE ED

SHOW.

Now, Congressman, do you feel empowered that recent polls are out there showing that 58 percent of the American people are willing to see the wealthy in this country pay more?  Is that the direction you‘re going?  And are you comfortable with it? 

HOYER:  I am comfortable with the proposal of the Ways and Means Committee, yes.  And I‘m pleased that the overwhelming majority of the American public want to see health care reform. 

They know it‘s not for free, although we‘re going to make over a half a billion dollars in savings from the present system.  So, this is not simply additional revenue, it‘s also savings, looking at waste, fraud and abuse, looking at how we can act more efficiently in our health care, but primarily wanting to bring costs down, but wanting to include all Americans in access to affordable, quality health care.  And that‘s what Americans voted for in the last election. 

SCHULTZ:  So, as far as the president is concerned, in the House President Obama is going to get what he‘s asked for all along?  There‘s going to be a public option, and if there‘s no Republicans on board, that‘s just tough cookies? 

HOYER:  I believe that‘s the case, yes. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.

HOYER:  We want to have Republicans on board, but if they won‘t join us, the American people want this, and we want to pass it. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.

And finally, can you guarantee a public option?

HOYER:  I can say there‘s going to be a public option in the House bill.  We‘ll have to see what happens in conference, see what happens in the Senate.  But the president is for a public option, we‘re for a public option, and we‘re going to pass a public option. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, I know you‘ve worked hard on this, but one final thing I want to point out.  And I got some calls on this today.

There are a lot of small businesses that are very nervous about what this is going to do to them.  If you can speak to the issue of the fee that they‘re going to have to pay, and are they going to have to do mandatory coverage?

HOYER:  Well, we are going to have mandatory coverage, but small businesses have a real problem.  We‘re very sensitive to that. 

It started out in the draft bill of accepting businesses who had payrolls under $100,000.  That was very low.  It‘s now $250,000 and graduated up to $400,000.  And they would pay less at $250,000 than they would at $400,000.  But there‘s a sensitivity to small businesses.

SCHULTZ:  OK.  All right.  So, that‘s going to be massaged as it goes through the House? 

HOYER:  It will be.  We‘re sensitive to the challenge that small businesses are confronted with. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.  Majority Leader Steny Hoyer.

Great to have you with us tonight, my friend.

HOYER:  Thank you, Ed.  As always, good to be with you.

SCHULTZ:  You bet.

I want to know what you think, folks.  Get your phones out.  I mean, here we go. 

Is it fair to tax the top 1.2 percent of the richest Americans to pay for health care?  Text “A” for yes, “B” for no to 622639. 

We‘ll bring you the results later in the program. 

Up next, you heard it here, “Psycho Talk.”  Karl Rove thinks it‘s dangerous to give Congress information?  Rove is concerned about leaking.  Well, now there‘s a guy who has been an authority on leaks.  Maybe we should listen to him. 

Well, Congressman Adam Smith is pretty fired up about it.  He‘ll respond to all of that next on THE ED SHOW.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  We want to replay a clip of our good friend Karl Rove for you.  You remember he went on fox news on Monday and was asked about reports Dick Cheney ordered the CIA to keep Congress in the dark about a plan to kill al Qaeda operatives.  Here it is. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

No, it‘s not time for “Psycho Talk” yet.  We‘ll get to it.  But we want to replay a clip of our old good friend Karl Rove for you.

Now, you remember he went on Fox News on Monday and was asked about reports Dick Cheney ordered the CIA to keep Congress in the dark about a plan to kill al Qaeda operatives. 

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  The CIA briefed Congress to this I guess in June, and the Congress immediately leaks it.  That itself is a violation, I think, of several statutes and indicative of why it is to so dangerous to give Congress information. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  It‘s dangerous to give Congress information. 

Tonight, we have a congressman from the Intelligence Committee on the House side that has some thoughts on these Karl Rove accusations.  He wants to talk about Dick Cheney, the CIA, and I would guess Cheney 2.0, AKA daughter Liz Cheney. 

Joining me now is Congressman Adam Smith of Washington. 

Congressman Smith, good to have you with us. 

REP. ADAM SMITH (D), WASHINGTON:  Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ:  Well, are you a leaker?  I mean, do you leak information? 

Do your colleagues leak information? 

SMITH:  Well, there‘s two things about that.  Several, actually. 

First of all, it‘s the law that the executive branch and the CIA inform Congress about its activities.  So it has to be followed regardless of from what flows from it. 

Second, the overwhelming majority of leaks on CIA programs come out of the executive branch.  Yes, there‘s always a danger when you share information, but the law requires that information to be shared with Congress.  And I will agree that Congress and the executive branch need to do a better job. 

I didn‘t want this letter leaked.  We sent a private letter to Director Panetta on this issue and then it was leaked afterwards.  And I do think that was a mistake.  We should have kept this issue secret.  It should not have been leaked.  But that‘s not an excuse for not following the law. 

SCHULTZ:  Can you tell our audience tonight that it was no member of Congress that leaked that letter? 

SMITH:  I wish I could, Ed.  I can‘t based on what I understand. 

I do think there were some members of Congress who leaked this letter.  But again, the issue of whether or not the letter was top secret, the program is top secret.  We can‘t talk about that, and we haven‘t.  So there‘s considerable debate here on whether or not this was a leak of something that we shouldn‘t have leaked. 

Now, like I said, I would have preferred this to have kept quiet, but it‘s far from clear that we leaked anything that we shouldn‘t have. 

SCHULTZ:  But the accusation from the right is, especially Karl Rove, is that we can‘t trust the Congress with information because they leak. 

Now, is this something that has to be addressed, or is he right? 

SMITH:  Well, the implications of that are that so then the executive branch just doesn‘t have to follow the law and doesn‘t have to tell us.  Look, we have to work very, very hard in Congress and the executive branch to make sure this information isn‘t leaked.  But we have to work equally hard to make sure the CIA isn‘t operating programs without informing the Congress that it has the legal obligation to exercise oversight.  We have to be informed. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  All right.

Last night on this program, I asked the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Silvestre Reyes, if he is going to move forward with a hearing. 

What can you tell us about this, and are you in favor of it? 

SMITH:  I am.  We are going to investigate this matter. 

In fact, the chairman sent a letter to Ranking Member Peter Hoekstra on the committee asking him that we go forward and investigate this whole issue.  And the issue is, what does the CIA have to tell us and what has their record been in releasing that information to us and informing us? 

And I think part of this is straightening out exactly when they need to tell us what and making that clear.  But part of it also is investigating to see if there had been clear violations of the law in terms of what they should tell us.

SCHULTZ:  OK.

SMITH:  This is a matter—this is a bipartisan issue.  I mean, both Republicans and Democrats on the Intelligence Committee are concerned about what we haven‘t been told in the past by the CIA, who want a better process. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.

Congressman Adam Smith from Washington joining us tonight.

Thanks so much for that update.  I appreciate your time here on THE ED

SHOW.

SMITH:  Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ:  We have an update on the breaking news out of Capitol Hill.  New information on the shooting that took place a little while ago on Capitol Hill. 

For the latest, let‘s go to NBC producer Ken Strickland on the phone. 

Ken, what do you know at this moment? 

KEN STRICKLAND, NBC NEWS PRODUCER:  Ed, here‘s what we know.  We know that, basically, this was a routine traffic stop by the U.S. Capitol Police about a few blocks from the Capitol, and it ended up with the suspect fleeing police, hitting an officer that was outside of a vehicle, and it ended up with the suspect being shot by the U.S. Capitol Police. 

It all started about 5:15 this afternoon in Washington.  Police spokesperson Kimberly Schneider (ph) tells us that it was a routine traffic stop.  And as police went to make the stop, the suspect fled, and took police on a little chase of sorts.  And it resulted in this suspect actually hitting and wounding an officer who was outside of his vehicle. 

It also involved the suspect driving down a one-way street near the Capitol.  And eventually, the suspect stopped about a block from the U.S.  Capitol. 

When the police approached the suspect, they asked him to come out of the vehicle and to show his hands.  The suspect produced a weapon, police say.  Police say they asked the suspect to drop his weapon.  He didn‘t, and they fired on the suspect.  That suspect is dead as far as we know. 

So that‘s what we know from here. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  Just so I heard you correctly there, Ken, what is the status of the suspect? 

STRICKLAND:  The suspect is dead, according to police. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.

STRICKLAND:  Police say that the suspect produced a weapon when they approached him.  He did not drop his weapon and they fired.  The police say they have recovered the gun that the suspect apparently was going to use. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  Do we know who this man was or do we know if he was wanted or a fugitive or anything like that? 

STRICKLAND:  We don‘t know anything about the suspect right now, Ed.  U.S. Capitol Police patrol a wide area near the Capitol, and it‘s not uncommon for them to make traffic stops of any nature. 

So, we don‘t have any details on the suspect, except police tell us that he produced a weapon, he did not drop it when police told him to drop it.  And the U.S. Capitol Police shot him.  And according to police, they killed him. 

SCHULTZ:  OK, Ken.  Thanks for your report tonight here on THE ED

SHOW. 

That‘s breaking news from Capitol Hill tonight.  A man is dead after a routine traffic stop.  It was a hit and run.  He hit an officer and then came out of the car with a weapon and was told to drop it, and ended up being shot.  And it is a fatal.

Ken Strickland on Capitol Hill for us tonight from NBC News. 

Stay with us.  We‘ve got so much more coming up here on THE ED SHOW on

MSNBC. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Oh, welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Time for “Psycho Talk” tonight.

You know, this health care thing is really getting the Republicans in a lot of trouble.  One of them is Congressman—Republican Congressman John Shadegg of Arizona. 

Now, the congressman came out on MSNBC this morning to talk about his new health care plan. 

First of all, buddy, too late.  That train has already left the station and you weren‘t on it. 

Putting that aside, Congressman Shadegg has been spreading the same lies and using the same fear tactics as his righty buddies.  Things like public option will destroy your private health care coverage, the government is going to end up rationing care.  It‘s going to be long lines, waiting lists, less choice, no freedom. 

We‘ve heard it all. 

Now, the president has said you can keep your insurance if you love it.  Now, you can pick your doctors if you want to do that. 

Ninety-four percent of America will get more choice.  But let‘s get back to the congressman for just a moment, this morning on MSNBC.

He was asked about his plan.  How would it work for an accountant who gets fired, has four kids, and suddenly doesn‘t have any more family health insurance? 

Now, just don‘t listen to this.  Watch this.  You‘ve got to watch it. 

Here it is. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN SHADEGG ®, ARIZONA:  You could decline your employer-based health care and take essentially a tax credit or a stipend from the government and go out and buy the plan you wanted.  If you had stayed with your employer‘s health care plan, as you question implies, and you lost your job, that stipend to go out and buy a plan of your choosing would be there, and you could go buy that plan either immediately or right after your COBRA ran out. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Did I hear him say that he was going to give money to somebody?  Holy smokes.  That‘s the government getting involved in health care. 

Let‘s see, you‘ve got one kid over here and you‘ve got another kid over here.  And then you get the wife in the middle and another kid, and who gets coverage?  And sooner or later, the Republicans are so mixed up on health care they‘re playing patty cake, patty cake. 

“Psycho Talk” is getting to me. 

We‘ll be right back. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  Breaking news tonight, there was shooting on Capitol Hill.  A Capital Police Officer was hit.  One suspect was killed.  For the latest, let‘s go to NBC producer Ken Strickland on the phone.  Ken, good to have you back.  What‘s the latest information. 

KEN STRICKLAND, NBC PRODUCER:  Well, you hit the high points.  We‘re waiting for the U.S. Capitol Police to give us another briefing.  They gave a briefing earlier.  Let‘s kind of recap what they said. 

It basically started out as a routine traffic stop for the US Capitol Police.  During this routine traffic stop, they say the suspect fled, taking them on a chase on streets around the Capitol, including the suspect driving down a one way street. 

When police finally did catch up with the suspect, the suspect showed a weapon, police say.  Police say they told the suspect to drop the weapon.  He didn‘t, and they fired. 

Police say they‘ve recovered a gun.  Police say the suspect subsequently died after the shooting. 

SCHULTZ:  Now, we don‘t know who the suspect is, is that correct? 

STRICKLAND:  We don‘t know who the suspect is.  And for people who cover Washington, anything that happens around the Capital they take it very, very seriously.  The US Capital—the Senate side, anyway, was locked down.  When we first got reports of gunfire outside the capital, we tried to get out of the building and we couldn‘t get out. 

What we did see—what I did see, though, was there are medical officers that work inside the Capitol and they came running through the Capitol to get outside. 

And we also have some videotape that shows these same people that were running through the Capitol, outside, treating the suspect, with his body being put into an ambulance.  We also have pictures that show a police car with what appears to be blood all in front of it and a crashed Mercedes-Benz. 

Right now, we‘re waiting for another briefing from police to give us more details.  But that‘s what we know so far. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  And most of all, no police officers were hurt in this.  There was a hit and run.  Do we know the condition of that police officer right now? 

STRICKLAND:  You raise an excellent point, Ed.  The police said that during this chase, a police officer who was out of his vehicle was struck by the suspect‘s car.  We don‘t know the condition of the officer.  The police spokesman did not tell us it was life threatening.  So we would like to assume that he‘s OK.  But he was struck by the suspect. 

SCHULTZ:  And police are describing this as a routine traffic stop.  So they weren‘t looking for this guy.  What did he run a red light or was he going too fast, driving erratic?  Do we know anything about that? 

STRICKLAND:  The U.S. Capitol police, from having to park and drive around here every day, take the traffic laws very seriously.  He could have run a red light.  He could have been a suspicious vehicle.  We don‘t know the exact details. 

But whatever it was, they describe it as a routine traffic stop.  When they tried to do their business and find out what was going on, he fled.  A chase ensued.  The car ended up stopping.  He ended, police said, producing a weapon of some kind.  When he didn‘t drop it, they shot him and he died. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  NBC Capital Hill News producer Ken Strickland with us here tonight on THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Thanks, Ken. 

STRICKLAND:  Thank you.

SCHULTZ:  Moving on, another day of Sonia Sotomayor‘s confirmation hearings.  Another grand standing opportunity for the Republicans.  They kept hammering away, pressing the judge on abortion and gun rights.  And of course, they couldn‘t let that infamous wise Latina comment go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN ®, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE:  I just want to start with the comments that you made about the wise Latina speech.  Do you stand by your words of yesterday, when you said it was a failed rhetorical flourish that fell flat? 

SOTOMAYOR:  I stand by the words, it fell flat.  And I understand that some people have understood them in a way that I never intended.  And I would hope that, in the context of the speech, that they would be understood. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Joining me now is Maria Teresa Kumar, who is the founding executive director of Voto Latina.  Maria, what do you make of this, her having to answer the same questions two days in a row?  Why are they so hung up on this comment?  What‘s your take on that?

MARIA TERESA KUMAR, VOTO LATINO:  Part of it is I think Sotomayor is having a flashback of her days at Princeton, when she was a student back in the ‘60s, and acutely reminded of her Latina-ness every single day.  Coming back from a neighborhood where she was very much an American.

I think what it‘s demonstrating is that the Republicans are really kind of stuck.  And they‘re stuck in the old way of doing business.  And they‘re really trying to fuel the fire of a cultural war.  And they‘re trying to energize the Joe the Plumber base. 

That‘s dangerous.  I believe the reason they‘re doing it is that they know they‘re gearing up for a fight when it comes to affirmative—not only affirmative action, but also immigration reform.  And they want to make sure that Joe the Plumber knows that they‘re there for the little guy. 

SCHULTZ:  Do you think the Republicans are turning off the Latinos in this country? 

KUMAR:  I think they‘re turning off women, first of all.  Everything from the way they seem to be belittling her in their conversation and also the way that they keep patronizing her.  The comment today when they—when one of the senators actually said, you know, explain referring to Lucy.  

SCHULTZ:  Let me play that sound cut for you.  This is Senator Coburn, who is a right winger from Oklahoma.  He showed his colors on this one, I think.  Here it is. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM COBURN ®, OKLAHOMA:  Do I have a right to personal self-defense? 

SOTOMAYOR:  The question that would come up, and does come up before juries and judges, is how imminent is the threat?  If the threat was in this room—if I go home, get a gun, come back and shoot you, that may not be legal under New York law, because you would have alternative ways—

COBURN:  You‘d have lots of explaining to do. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Miss Kumar, how do you take that comment? 

KUMAR:  It‘s shameful.  I think that the Republican party really has a difficult time if they don‘t realize that the demographics of the country are shifting.  We‘re no longer talking about liberals in New York or in California.  We‘re talking about an increasing demographic in Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico.  You name it. 

SCHULTZ:  What do you anticipate it‘s going to be like from here on?  Are the questions going to stay focused on guns and abortion, her comments, the wise Latina?  Or do you think they‘re going to move on to some substantive stuff? 

KUMAR:  I think the wise Latina comment keeps them in the headlines, and it also continues to galvanize their extreme base.  So I think they‘ll continue to use it. 

What I‘m more interested in is the questions—when Frank Ricci starts testifying and folks start testifying both on the majority and minority side.  That will be interesting to see, how the reaction is on the Senate side. 

SCHULTZ:  Thank you, Maria.  For more on today‘s hearing, let‘s turn to our panel now; “Grit TV” host Laura Flanders, Democratic strategist Todd Webster with us tonight, and Republican strategist John Feehery. 

John, the Republicans, are they taking a black eye in this whole hearing by maybe going in the wrong direction with the judge?  What do you think? 

JOHN FEEHERY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST:  I don‘t think so.  I think they‘ve been mostly very respectful in their questioning.  I think this is a typical Supreme Court questioning fight.  They‘re asking the questions, on the Republican side—the kinds of questions that Democrats asked of Judged Roberts and Judge Alito on the Democrat side.  This is typical going back and forth.

There‘s not a whole lot of major headlines out of this confirmation hearing.  My guess is, as Lindsey Graham said, she‘s probably going to get confirmed. 

SCHULTZ:  Laura Flanders, what do you think?

LAURA FLANDERS, “GRIT TV”:  I‘m a little worried about that target practice card you have up there.  I‘m sure you don‘t mean anything by it.  But with bullet crimes in the Capitol and hate crimes against Latinos still what they are, I think it‘s in a little bit of poor taste. 

But moving on, I think everyone is right so far that this has been a lot of sound and fury signifying mostly that the GOP is really nervous, but not a whole lot. 

One thing that did concern me today, and this will concern you, Ed, is what Kent Conrad had to be say about how the endless grand standing in the Supreme Court nomination hearings might delay the schedule sufficient to put off that vote we all want on health care. 

SCHULTZ:  No doubt about it.  Todd Webster, does this just underscore that the Republicans are out of material?  Or is this just the best way to approach this whole thing? 

TODD WEBSTER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST:  Look, I think that you have—you have Tom Coburn mocking Rick Ricardo.  You have Lindsey Graham attacking Judge Sotomayor‘s temperament.  You had Senator Sessions asking nine consecutive questions about racism and bigotry and prejudice.  You have the makings of a Senate cracker caucus going on here, with these people who are beating up on this woman because she‘s Latino and female. 

I think that does not sit well for a party that needs to be more inclusive, to be more tolerant, to try to rid itself of the brand that‘s been established over the years on these fights like immigration and other fights.  I think that, over the long term, it‘s hurting them or it‘s certainly not helping them. 

SCHULTZ:  All right, panel, stick around.  We have a lot more coming tonight. 

One last thing in this segment.  This story has me fired up.  A U.S.  soldier is refusing to deploy to Afghanistan because he says President Obama is not really the commander chief.  He‘s one of those conspiracy theorists who is still insisting the president isn‘t a natural born citizen, and that mean he is can‘t take orders from him. 

I think this guy is a coward and it‘s shameful.  He‘s basically intimidating—or I should say acting like Dick Cheney, ducking his responsibilities.  I guess you could say he‘s pulling a Palin.

Why would he do this?  This is just an excuse.  There‘s a hearing in the case tomorrow, but the Army has already revoked his deployment orders.  I guess they decided they don‘t this guy—this kind of a guy representing the United States military and the United States.  I don‘t either. 

Coming up next, the Drugster is coming after me.  Can you believe this?  Look folks, I finally made it to the big time.  There‘s a history here.  I‘m going to explain in it a moment.  Rush, I got a challenge for you, buddy.  You‘re in my playbook next.  Come on, let‘s bounce it a little bit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Breaking news tonight.  Let‘s go to the presser on Capital Hill, a follow-up on the shooting that happened at 5:15 this afternoon, one fatal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Columbus Circle.  At the point, the vehicle struck one of our police officers.  Our Capital police officer sustained very minor injuries, not life threatening injuries.  And the officer was actually outside of his vehicle.  The officer was on foot. 

At that point, after they struck the officer, the vehicle then proceeded down Louisiana Avenue.  From my understanding, it‘s the wrong way.  The vehicle, which is a Mercedes-Benz small sedan, stopped to rest in the New Jersey—the area of New Jersey and C Street in the Northwest. 

At that point, the officers noticed the suspect had a weapon.  The suspect produced a weapon.  The officers challenged the suspect, asking him to show his hands, put the weapon down.  The suspect did not comply and was shot. 

We‘ve since learned that the suspect is dead and we have retrieved a weapon, the suspect‘s weapon. 

I‘ll take any questions that you have at this time. 

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We believe there‘s only one weapon at this time. 

We do have it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Did he point it at the police officers? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The officers felt that there was a reason that they were being threatened.  They were in fear for their life.  And the officers did shoot the suspect. 

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The weapon was a gun. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Did he fire at all? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I don‘t have those details at this point? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Do you have a name on the suspect?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Not at this point. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  What kind of gun was it? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  It was a hand gun.  I don‘t have the details on the type of weapon it was. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  What did they stop him for in the first place? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  It was a routine traffic stop.  Whatever it was that led the officers to believe they needed to stop the vehicle, it was probably for good reason.  As you see, the suspect took off immediately.  The officers were not even able to catch up to the vehicle because he immediately took off. 

As I said, heading down the wrong way, striking one officer at Columbus Circle. 

If I didn‘t mention, as he went down Louisiana Avenue, the wrong way, and ended up at New Jersey Avenue, my understanding is there‘s also a Capitol Police Officer who was on a motorcycle who was also injured. 

My understanding is that that officer also sustained minor injuries, and the suspect was the only person who was transported to the hospital.  I believe our officers are still here on scene. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  There are two officers hurt now? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  My understanding is there are two, at least two officers who are injured. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  -- involved in the routine traffic stop? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I will have to check the details on that and get back to you on that.  The initial stop that was initiated by the Capital Police was by a Capitol Police Officer in a cruiser, from what I understand.  I don‘t have those details. 

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I don‘t have those details.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  How many officers were involved in the shooting? 

Was it one officer?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I don‘t have the details on the number of officers who were involved in the shooting.  I can tell you that I do know for sure that two of our officers were—sustained minor injuries.  I don‘t know how many officers were involved. 

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I don‘t know. 

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  There was one suspect in the vehicle, only one person. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Did the suspect shoot at all?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I don‘t have those details at this point.  When the officer—the officers felt that their lives were in danger.  That could mean the suspect pointed the weapon at the officer.  Whether or not he shot is something I will be able to get for you at a later date. 

I‘m sorry? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Did he say anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I don‘t have any of those details at this time.  It‘s very fast moving, very fluid.  We‘re not even two hours out from the initial incident. 

I don‘t know. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Do you know the purpose for the original traffic stop?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I‘ll have to investigate some more and get back to you later.  I‘m sorry?

The suspect came to rest on New Jersey Avenue, on that block. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Did police maneuver to try to side line the car or something?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Was he inside or outside the vehicle when he was shot? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  My understanding is that he was inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Did you recover a loaded weapon? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We recovered one weapon.  I don‘t know if it was loaded or not. 

I just said, I don‘t know.  I don‘t have any description on the suspect at all at this point. 

SCHULTZ:  You are watching a live press briefing on the scene of a shooting at Capitol Hill on New Jersey Avenue in Washington, D.C.  It happened—it all started with a routine traffic stop.  That‘s how police officials are describing it.  It happened at 5:15 this afternoon, Eastern time. 

That was Sergeant Kimberly Schneider (ph) giving the update.  One man is dead.  The suspect is dead after a routine traffic stop.  He denied the stop by police.  He continued on, hit one police officer, who suffered minor injuries.  We‘re told now that another officer has suffered minor injuries.

But there was a shoot out and that man was killed by Capitol Police when he refused to put his fire arm down.  We‘ll bring you the latest as it comes to us, but that was the latest briefing right there live on Capital Hill, here on MSNBC. 

We‘ve got more coming for you on THE ED SHOW.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  In my playbook tonight, I‘m going one on one with the man, Rush Limbaugh.  This guy goes after me, little old me, today on his radio show?  Listen up. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Now, there‘s a show on MSNBC named after a horse, THE ED SHOW.  The talking horse.  I think they brought the horse out of retirement to host the show.  And the horse, Mr. Ed, is talking to a former CIA officer, Jack Rice, about the Sotomayor hearings.  And Mr. Ed, the horse, says to the CIA officer, I think you come from a profession where keeping your cool is pretty important, did she pass the test today? 

(END VIDEO CLIP)   

SCHULTZ:  I love it.  Rush, I‘ve got a chance for you.  Why don‘t you come on the program.  Come on, buddy, your audience would love it.  Radio or TV, and debate me about anything.  Let‘s see how good you are, Rush, one-on-one.  Let‘s go buddy.  Be safe as can be.  Heck, MSNBC, we‘ve got HD.  We‘ve got the wide screen.  You‘ll fit in there just fine. 

Now, there‘s a history here.  Back in 2004, when I started my national radio show, “The Today Show” came out to Fargo.  Jamie Gangelle (ph) did a story no me, said, oh, here‘s Ed Schultz, a liberal talker, going to do a national talk show.  And Rush went after me on the air.  He said I don‘t know who this four dollar an hour guy from Fargo is; he‘ll never make it. 

Well, Rush, here I am at 30 Rock.  Hell, I‘m doing you a favor.  I‘m giving you ratings.  I‘m promoting you right here, Rush.  Come on, let‘s get after it.  Your audience would love it.  Your audience hates me.  Your audience would love to see you just stick it to me.

But you won‘t do it, because you‘re a coward Rush.  I‘ve always thought that, always thought that. 

Now here‘s what we could do.  Now listen, it doesn‘t have to be politics, Rush.  I know you couldn‘t cut it over at ESPN calling football games.  So what do you say we just take the field together and tackle each other. 

If you really don‘t want to exert yourself too  much, we can go fishing and I‘ll show you how to bait the hook, if you know how to do that.  That‘s kind of a mainstream thing, isn‘t it?

Or we can even take a page out of your old buddy Shooter‘s playbook and do some hunting.  I promise, I won‘t shoot you in the face. 

Now, while we‘re at it, I would like to play some golf, too.  I hear you‘re a pretty hot shot at golf too.  Rush, don‘t tell me you cheat at golf. 

Or here‘s an idea.  This is an easy one.  Why don‘t we just go on back to the north country and get behind my ski boat.  We‘ll do some water skiing and do a little competition. 

Just how much in the mainstream are you, Rush?  Take the challenge.  Come on, your listeners would love it.  You would get big ratings.  You‘d show up big Eddie on MSNBC.  Who knows?  Maybe they would cancel my show because you‘re so good, Rush.  No, he won‘t do it.  Just dreaming.

The Republicans are lying again.  They‘re claiming the Democrats are going to raise everyone‘s taxes, including Rush Limbaugh‘s taxes, to pay for health care.  Of course, they are wrong.  Congressman Ron Kind will be joining us.  He‘s on the tax-writing committee.  He‘ll give us the real deal next on THE ED SHOW.  Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN ®, ARIZONA:  Elections have consequences.  This is a glaring example of that.  We have now, again, committed another act of generational theft, of laying an unsustainable fiscal burden on future generations. 

SEN. ORRIN HATCH ®, UTAH:  They‘re spending too much.  They‘re taxing too much to get us there.  And they‘re writing legislation that is totally partisan, that isn‘t going to work. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Oh, the Republicans are just sounding so desperate.  They are right about one thing; elections do have consequences.  President Obama did win.  The Democrats have got 60 Senate seats.  We might just get it done. 

So conservatives, basically what they‘re trying to do is scare the American people, telling them that the Democrats are going to tax their way to health care to pay for it.  For some people, that‘s right, they are. 

So I thought I would invite a member of the committee that writes the taxes to tell us clearly who‘s going to have to pony up in all of this.  Joining me now is Wisconsin Congressman Ron Kind.  He‘s a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. 

Ron, good to have you with us tonight. 

REP. RON KIND (D), WISCONSIN:  Hi, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  Will middle class Americans—I‘m talking from 40,000 to 150,000 dollars income a year—will those households be hit to have to pay for the Democratic plan for health care? 

KIND:  Ed, the short answer is no.  But the overriding goal here is to figure out a way to reduce costs for all Americans, from families to businesses, and even for public budgets.  Because the current system is unsustainable, with ever increasing costs, which is eroding the wages for most working families today, making it impossible for small business to afford coverage. 

And it‘s the fastest growing area of spending in our federal budget today.  So we do need health care reform.  And move to a system that rewards the value of care that‘s given, as opposed to the volume of care that‘s given.  That‘s where the great cost savings will be in this reform package.

SCHULTZ:  Congressman Kind, you‘re on this tax writing committee.  It looks like you‘re going to be going after people, 1.2 percent of the highest income earners in the country—so 98.8 percent of the people aren‘t going to get touched on this.  But the fact is, you‘re going after the rich.  Can you be just up front?  That‘s what‘s going to happen right here to pay for this.  Will it generate enough money? 

KIND:  First of all, there‘s a trigger involved in this reform package.  We‘re going to work as hard as we can to find cost savings within the system itself, through the reform that we‘re proposing, many of which we‘re very confident are going to work. 

But let‘s be clear; this health care reform is going to be completely paid for.  It will not add one nickel to our federal deficit, unlike the practice of the previous administration. 

And we think it‘s fair to go at the upper income level to ask them contribute a little bit more, since their payroll taxes for Social Security end at 100,000 dollars, and they don‘t pay anymore into it.  But also because they receive some of the most generous health care plans in the entire country, and they get a tax exclusion for that benefit right now. 

So it‘s not unreasonable to ask them to contribute a little bit to the system, given the huge tax break that they already received for the health care they get.  But also to reduce the cost shifting that‘s occurring on so many Americans due to the uninsured in this country today. 

SCHULTZ:  So the key is—the actuary—the formula that you have put together in the House, you go after the folks 250,000 plus, 350,000 plus, a million dollars.  They have to pay more.  Enough money will be generated.  And we will not add to the deficit.  Correct? 

KIND:  Ed, we‘re talking 350,000 dollars in adjusted gross income.  That‘s after you back out the expenses.  So that‘s profit we‘re talking about, which is a pretty high level. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.  Thanks so much. 

There you have it, folks.  Not everybody is going to get taxed on this deal.  It is going to be the wealthier Americans.  Now, I asked you that earlier tonight on the program; is it fair to tax the top 1.2 percent of the richest Americans to pay for health care; 94 percent of you said yes, and six percent of you said no. 

That‘s THE ED SHOW.  I‘m Ed Schultz.  For more information on THE ED SHOW go to Ed.MSNBC.com.  Check out our radio website at WeGotEd.com.  Going to be in Madison, Wisconsin this Sunday night at 7:00.  Town hall meeting on health care.  “HARDBALL” starts right now.  You‘re watching MSNBC, the place for politics.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END   

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