updated 10/23/2009 10:43:42 AM ET 2009-10-23T14:43:42

Guests: Howard Fineman, Rep. Anthony Weiner, Jonathan Cohn, Eugene Robinson, Rachel Maddow

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice-over):  Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow?

The White House opts for the option with the opt-out as events move rapidly today on reform.  Senators Conrad and Ben Nelson tell “Politico” the president is leaning towards the public option but the one that gives the states the chance to opt-out.  Senator Snowe says this could be enough to renege on her support.

And in the House, after Majority Whip Clyburn‘s announcement here that referring to the option as “Medicare for Everyone” makes sense for explanation and salesmanship, the speaker exclusively tells Andrea Mitchell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER:  It isn‘t a question of what it is named.  It‘s a question of what the bill will do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  Medicare Part E, the public option, we can call it Melvin if that will help.  So, one of the top insurance lobbyists then insists no Republican should vote for any reform, calling it, quote, “giving comfort to the enemy.”

And in turn, Congressman Anthony Weiner says, 55 Republicans currently have a public option in the House, it‘s called Medicare.  And if they vote against it, they should give up their own coverage.  He is our guest.

Afghanistan—somebody woke up Dick Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FMR. U.S. VICE PRESIDENT:  The White House must stop dithering while American‘s armed forces are in danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  Why are we listening to this blood-lusting, discredited zombie?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  What the vice president is suggesting the president isn‘t acting on is what the previous administration didn‘t act on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  “Worsts”: The secret off-the-record lunch at the White House we went to on Monday—the one the lunatic fringe right-wing is going nuts over.  I will reveal all.  Well, frankly, it was just like the dinner the president had at George Will‘s house in January with the conservative coffee klatch or the lunch with Chris Wallace and Bret Baier, I guess.

And the latest from Lonesome Roads: Obama bailed out Detroit so there‘d be an OnStar in every car so Obama can track you wherever you—check, please!

All that and more—now on COUNTDOWN.

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GLENN BECK, TV HOST:  That sounds insane.

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OLBERMANN:  Good evening from New York.

The bad news: the Republicans who some Democrats seem to think is worth 10 Democrats evidently will now not abide a public option as part of health care reform.  The good news: the president evidently now will not abide health care reform that does not include a public option.

Our fifth story on the COUNTDOWN tonight: The White House now reported by two conservadems as leaning towards a public option included in the final Senate health care bill albeit with a big caveat.

Conservative Democratic senators telling Politico.com that White House and Senate officials in charge of merging the two Senate health care bills are zeroing in on creating a national government health plan that might still allow states to drop out or opt out on an individual basis.  The Senate leadership tonight is heading into the Oval Office for a meeting with the president.  Senator Conrad of North Dakota is telling the Web site that he has been informed about the direction of the talks but was assured the government plan would not be tied to Medicare rates.

Medicare rates or no, opt in or not, any Senate plan that would deprive the insurance cartel of the status quo, a single new customer or government subsidy in that order viewed as a threat, a top lobbyist working for the insurance industry‘s largest trade group, the AHIP, urging Republicans in Congress to kill health reform of any kind and stop the Democrats some succeeding on the issue in any way lest they give, quote, “comfort to an enemy who is down.”

Quoting lobbyist Steve Champlin from his remarks at the AHIP‘s annual states issues conference, “There is absolutely no interest, no reason Republicans should ever vote for this thing.  They have gone from a party that got killed 11 months ago to a party that is rising today, and they are rising up on the turmoil of health care,” said Mr. Champlin.  “So when they vote for a health care reform bill, whatever it is, they are giving comfort to the enemy who is down.”

How about the 44,000 Americans who die every year because they don‘t have health insurance?  Or the 46 million more alive, despite the best efforts of the insurance cartel, who are not yet insured, what about giving comfort to them?

And by the way, where‘s your evidence about the Republicans‘ rising when a fifth of those who called themselves Republicans in August are no longer doing so tonight?

Meanwhile, despite her yes vote to move the Senate finance bill out of committee, Republican Senator Snowe of Maine today telling reporters that she is against a public option, adding she would likely filibuster any bill that had a public option in it.

Conservative Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska telling Politico.com that he is against a national public option, quote, “I still believe a state-based approach is the way in which to go.  So, I‘m not being shy about making that point.”

Other conservadems—Senator Pryor of Arkansas, Senator Landrieu of Louisiana—indicating they would not be inclined to support a Republican filibuster about the public option.

Oddly, Senator Landrieu though still is misrepresenting the public option, saying on National Public Radio this morning that the overwhelming majority of Americans who are for the public option would be against it if the pollsters‘ questions stated that the government would belly-up running it.  Quoting her, “I think if you ask, ‘Do you want a public option but it would force the government to go bankrupt,‘ people would say no.”

Well, of course, Senator, if you ask, “Do you want to continue to have senators from Louisiana but it would force the government to go bankrupt,” people would also say no to that.

Meanwhile in the House, Speaker Pelosi saying yes to the public option, even if, as she tells our own Andrea Mitchell, exclusively, she will not be calling it “Medicare for Everyone” or Medicare Part E.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ANDREA MITCHELL EXCLUSIVE)

PELOSI:  Everyone has their little catchphrases.  Public option does not reign as the great choice of words but it does have an appeal with the American people.  And that‘s why over 60 percent of them support having the true competitor to the insurance industry.  They know full well that there needs to be something to keep the insurance companies honest and to have true competition, whatever you call it.

ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT:  Are you going to end up calling it Medicare—“Medicare for Everyone”?

PELOSI:  No, I don‘t think so.  But it isn‘t a question what it is named.  It‘s a question what the bill will do.

MITCHELL:  And it will have a public option?

PELOSI:  It will have a public option.  And we would—I‘ve always had the votes for the public option, it‘s just a question what form it will take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  You can watch Andrea Mitchell‘s full interview with Speaker Pelosi tomorrow on “ANDREA MITCHELL REPORTS” at 1:00 p.m. Eastern here on MSNBC.

Let‘s turn again to Congressman Anthony Weiner, the Democrat of New York—thanks again for your time tonight, sir.

REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK:  Thanks for having me back.

OLBERMANN:  The White House is now said to be leaning toward putting the public option into the merged Senate bill, albeit with that caveat.  Do you have advice for them as a proponent of this for so long about how to get conservative Democrats to support it in the Senate?

WEINER:  Well, listen, to some degree, this isn‘t a matter of who it‘s branded, but there is this conversation that‘s taking on a lot of resonance about whether or not you want to let states opt out.  So long as they do, it may be two or three or four years after the program is up and running.  We have to first let it get some oxygen.

I am concerned about the idea that some people in some states will be luckier than others in terms of having a governor that doesn‘t want to take away their services on an ideological basis.  But I think, now, what‘s going on is, here in Washington, we‘re hearing what‘s going on in the population.  People do understand the public choice, the public option.  They do want the choice and the competition.

Notwithstanding what the senator from Louisiana said, the American people understand this full well.  They‘re the ones putting the pressure on it to have it included.

OLBERMANN:  You have always pushed for the full deal here, single-payer, the real health care reform.  In that light, understanding the public option is not literally “Medicare for Everybody,” it‘s not literally Medicare Part E, could you abide calling it that as a—essentially as slogan to make it more palatable to the blue dogs or the voters who had their summers confused for them by the opponents of reform?

WEINER:  Well, months ago, I might have been the first person to say that people should look at public option as being like a little sliver of a program like Medicare for people who don‘t have insurance.

And look, we do have this notion, that we understand what simple and what works.  Medicare is popular.  It‘s got a funding problem but it‘s popular and it works.  The problem that we have now is the health care industry has pushed back as hard as they can against the idea of competition and they‘re not succeeding.

What I have said to the blue dogs and the conservatives is very simple, if you believe in this notion of economy having choice and competition, you‘ve got to have the public option to at least give us a sliver of that competition.

OLBERMANN:  Your study about the public option in action, in Congress, in the form of Medicare—how many representatives are getting it and how many of those who are getting it are, in fact, against the kind of public option they already have?

WEINER:  Well, we have 151 members of the House and Senate, of which 55 are Republicans who say they‘re opposed to a public option.  So, there it is.  You‘ve got people who have a public option for themselves in the form of Medicare but don‘t want it for people who are 64 or 54 or 34 to be able to get it.

This is, in part, the schizophrenia that we have in this town right now.  We have people thumping their chest about how they‘re opposed to government-run health care, and yet, they would not imagine not accepting Medicare and not wanting it for their constituents.  This is part of the appeal of branding this as kind of like “Medicare for Everyone” else, that‘s really what we should do.  But we‘re not going to do that.  We‘re just going to say a sliver more people are going to get a program that‘s going to look a lot like Medicare.

OLBERMANN:  If the final bill that emerges from conference has a provision that allows states to opt out after, as you say, giving the thing a few years of oxygen in all 50 states, will there be enough Democratic votes in the House to support that measure?

WEINER:  I believe there will be, but that‘s a very important caveat that you put in there.  It has to be that the—we can‘t make it like it was with the stimulus package, that you have governors trying to credential themselves as national candidates by turning back stimulus money and saying to their constituents we‘re not going to take this service.

Remember, the public option won‘t cost the states anything.  So, it‘s going to be—you know, so long as we let it get up and running, I‘m convinced that‘s going to take hold and it‘s going to drive down prices.  And I believe will have the votes for it and I even think we‘re going to have the votes for it in the Senate if we do it that way.  But we can‘t get ahead of ourselves.  The insurance industry is working every single day to try to kill any thought of this.

OLBERMANN:  Yes.  A couple of important caveats attached to there from Democratic Congressman Anthony Weiner of New York—and again, as always, our great pleasure.  Great thanks.

WEINER:  Thank you.

OLBERMANN:  For more on the politics of this, let‘s turn to our own Howard Fineman, senior Washington correspondent for “Newsweek” magazine.

Howard, good evening.

HOWARD FINEMAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST:  Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN:  The White House and Senate leadership are now leaning towards a public option with this opt-out and then they let us know this.  There might be a suspicion among some people watching right now—trial balloon?

FINEMAN:  I wouldn‘t use the ballooning metaphor.

OLBERMANN:  Yes.

FINEMAN:  I would use skiing.

OLBERMANN:  OK.

FINEMAN:  This is kind of like slalom skiing here.  I mean, they slalom to the right to get the thing through the Senate Finance Committee without the public option of any kind, in part to get Olympic Snowe‘s vote.  Now, they‘re tacking back in the other direction, leaning in the other direction, as they head towards the larger problem of getting something through both the House and the Senate.  And that‘s what‘s going on here and I think we‘re going to continue to see maybe narrower and narrower slaloms back-and-forth as we continue.

OLBERMANN:  Yes.  We‘ll go skiing because trial balloon also invokes that crazy family from Colorado and we want to skip them for the time being.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN:  How did—how exactly, though—and maybe this does invoke the family of scientist from Colorado.

FINEMAN:  Yes.

OLBERMANN:  How did the public option come back from the other side here or were reports of its demise greatly exaggerated?

FINEMAN:  Yes.  I think they were exaggerated because if you listen carefully to what Barack Obama and Valerie Jarrett and everybody else were always saying, they were saying that they weren‘t taking it off the table.  This was the president‘s preferred method to try to hold down costs and extend care.  They weren‘t going to let everything go by the boards because of it.  That was their preferred method.

So, they‘ve always been careful never to take it off the table.  And now, it‘s back.

OLBERMANN:  The speaker in that interview with Andrea Mitchell that she will run in its entirety and exclusively tomorrow afternoon, she says she doesn‘t think she‘s going to call the House bill “Medicare for Everyone.”  Majority whip, Mr. Clyburn, said the opposite yesterday.

Do we—how do we file this?  It was fun while it lasted or are they going to use it sort of as a side tool to try to round up those blue dogs?

FINEMAN:  Yes.  I think they‘re—I think the reason they‘re shying away from it is one that you mentioned a little earlier, which is that the health insurance industry and other providers, the so-called stakeholders, as they‘re called, I think of them as stake eaters, they run away from anything that has the label “Medicare” on it because if you look what‘s happened to growth of Medicare costs, even though Medicare has its problems, its growth rate, in terms of spending, is on a much lower plain than the growth of spending in the private sector.

The government has power to negotiate.  The government has power to

set rules.  That wording is scary to any stakeholder in town and that‘s why

·         that‘s why Nancy Pelosi and the others want to stay away from it.

           

OLBERMANN:  Last word in terms of math here.  The votes are not yet in, in the Senate to prevent, avoid—depending on which term you like—the filibuster.  What needs to happen to get them there and to what degree is that number tied into the opt-out provision?  Is that enough to secure the 60 votes?

FINEMAN:  Yes.  I think, in listening to Congressman Weiner, you see where the negotiations are going to go and where they are.

Senator Nelson told me yesterday, said, “I‘m against a robust upfront public option,” which means that Senator Nelson is for a weak back-loaded public option or at least he might accept that.  That‘s sort of what the opt-out thing is.

And what the negotiations are going to be about it seems is a trigger to allow the opt-out, and how many years, what the time length is.  So, if those are the only two issues about the public option, that means that there‘s going to be some kind of opt-out trigger-enhanced public option that will probably be able to pass muster with enough Democrats.  And if it does, even if Olympia Snowe who they tried so hard to get suddenly goes off the reservation, they probably won‘t need her.

OLBERMANN:  But is Weiner‘s point going to be address there, that‘s not opt-out immediately, that‘s an opt-out after it starts?

FINEMAN:  Yes.  Well, after it starts and then negotiate.  Is it—is it two years, four years, two and a half years?  I mean, we‘re just talking about length of time there.  That‘s something they can negotiate about.  That‘s not conceptual.

OLBERMANN:  Right.

FINEMAN:  That‘s just—that‘s just arithmetic.

OLBERMANN:  But the insurance lobby is going for two hours.

FINEMAN:  Yes.

OLBERMANN:  Maybe two hours and 10 minutes tops.

FINEMAN:  Exactly.

OLBERMANN:  Howard Fineman of “Newsweek” and MSNBC—we‘ll be flying in his beautiful balloon.  Many thanks.

FINEMAN:  Thank you.  Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN:  So, it isn‘t “Medicare for Everyone.”  But what are the differences?  What are the caveats between the two things?

And another question tonight, what was that pack of evil journalists and columnists doing inside the White House on Monday?  Why were they darkening the president‘s door?  And what evil plots were hatched there in?  Only Tucker Carlson‘s shadow knows.

Boy, was it wrong?  I‘ll tell you what I can tell and what I can‘t tell you about this, with this most vital piece of information first—my God was the dessert good!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN:  The difference between “Medicare for Everyone” and the public option and actual literal Medicare for everyone.  The difference between a literal Afghanistan policy and a Dick Cheneying-around-in-Afghanistan policy.

What really happen inside the White House on Monday, and more importantly, what didn‘t.

And Lonesome Roads‘ latest revelation, the government is really OnStar to spy on you.  Is he eating mushrooms that grow down by the side of that road again?

You‘re watching COUNTDOWN on MSNBC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN:  Whether or not House Speaker Pelosi does or does not officially start calling the public option Medicare Part E, “E” for everyone, that toothpaste is out of the tube which means—in our fourth story tonight—we ought to define what Medicare Part E actually means and does not mean.  For one thing, it would not be available to literally everyone.  In most likely scenarios emerging, it would not be available to most people.

According to Senator Ron Wyden, more than 200 million Americans would not qualify as the public option would be limited to very small companies and those individual who cannot afford or get private insurance.  Medicare Part E for everyone then would really be for everyone who cannot get it otherwise.

The advantage, of course, of calling it Medicare Part E is to inoculate it against the bogus claims made against government-run insurance by analogizing it to something familiar already in existence which neither that a public by any other name would pass Congress, or even that it would work if it were passed.

So, let‘s bring in Jonathan Cohn, the author of “Sick: The Untold Story of America‘s Health Care Crisis and the People Who Pay the Price,” also senior editor at “The New Republic.”

Great thanks for your time tonight, sir.

JONATHAN COHN, THE NEW REPUBLIC:  It‘s good to be here.  Thank you.

OLBERMANN:  So, answer that question for us.  If we pass a public option whether it‘s called Medicare Part E or Melvin or whatever we‘re going to cal it, will we succeed in expanding health care to everyone and controlling costs?

COHN:  Well, it will help.  The idea here is to create a public option into which at least some people can enroll and you create that option.  Millions of people would be able to take advantage of it.  So, for those people, undoubtedly, it will make health insurance more affordable.  And you‘ll see more people getting health insurance.

And that‘s really a big reason why the public option has come back to life.  You know, we all thought it was dead a few weeks ago.  But Congress is (INAUDIBLE).  They‘re looking at trade-offs.  They‘re saying, you know, they want this program to do more.  They don‘t want to put more money on the table—and lo and behold, the public option works.

And so, now, all of a sudden, you know, chances of some kind of public option getting into the bill, they look pretty good.

OLBERMANN:  Here‘s a question for you.  This is obviously much on Mr.  Wyden‘s mind.  It‘s one of his issues about this whole threshold thing.  If people who have private insurance cannot then get the public option, how are they in competition and why should private insurers wind up lowering their rates at all?

COHN:  Well, you know, it‘s a really good question.  You know, remember, the way this system would work, if this bill passes as more-or-less as it looks right now is, people who get insurance from their large employers, not much are going to change for them, they‘ll still get insurance that way.  And it is—as you said—for everybody else, small businesses, people buying insurance on their own, that‘s where the public option would be available.

Now, the public option would be competing with private insurers for that business.  So, in that sense, you know, there would be some competition.  And I think that‘s a good thing and you will see some good effects from that.

But I—there‘s no question in my mind that—I think Ron Wyden is right about this—that if you make—you open this up and you let anybody enroll in the public option, you get a whole lot more competition.  And, frankly, I don‘t know about you, but I think a lot of people who have insurance from their employers might like to know that they have this option out there.  If they don‘t like what their employers have chosen for them, hey, let‘s try this Medicare Part E or whatever they‘re calling it, because, you know, it might be a better option.

OLBERMANN:  Congressman Kucinich talked about Medicare Part E in 2004.  It really would have covered everybody, the whole country.  Is it still an affordable option?  Is it a viable prospect?

COHN:  You know, look—I mean, if I could, you know, wipe the slate clean, if I were king for a day, I‘ve always said, I would love to create what‘s basically a single-payer system in this country where you‘d have “Medicare for Everybody” literally, capital “E.”  And I think that‘s more or less what Dennis Kucinich has always talked about.

And there‘s a lot of reasons to think a system like that would work really well.  The reality is, the political reality is, that‘s not on the table right now.  We are quite far along in this particular process.  I think the public option—for those of us who like to think government can run a health insurance system well—the public option is a pretty good way to at least make progress towards that goal.

And, you know, look, maybe 10, 20 years from now, we can come back and try to do a real Medicare Part E for everyone.  But for now, at least getting people the option of a public insurance system, I think, is a real accomplishment.

OLBERMANN:  We just talked about the health insurance lobbyists who called Democrats the enemy and urged Republicans to vote against any kind of health care reform, surely for their own political benefit.  What could ever make the insurance companies get so honest about this?

COHN:  Fear.

OLBERMANN:  Oh, yes.

COHN:  They are scared to death right now.  You know, they had a really bad couple of weeks now.  They were at the table.  They were talking to the members of Congress.  They were talking to the president.  There was a negotiations going on.

And, you know, they wanted more.  They were not happy with the way the bills were evolving.  So, they put out these bogus studies.  I think they thought that they would be able to steer the debate in their direction.

Quite the opposite has happened.  There was an incredibly hostile reaction on Capitol Hill, even from people who had been their friends.  And they‘re now in a situation where they could end up the big losers.

And so, they are, frankly, I think, more-or-less in a war mode right now.  And basically, they‘re coming out with everything they‘ve got, because I think they‘ve made the calculation—at this point, they really could lose big if this thing passes.

OLBERMANN:  Jonathan Cohn, the author of “Sick,” also with “The New Republic” on what is pretty much a good night for health care reform—thank you, kindly, sir.

COHN:  Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN:  The reverse of this has materially changed something but keep the name the same.  That was especially the Bush administration.  For instance, when it went into Afghanistan in 2001 to root out the Taliban for having supported bin Laden, the Bush administration called that the “war on terror.”

The next year, when they gave up on Afghanistan and instead went into Iraq for no good reason at all, when Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, they continued to call it the “war on terror.”  And the guy behind that decision, easily one of the five worst foreign policy calls in American history, former Vice President Dick Cheney is now criticizing the current administration‘s efforts to mop up his almost criminal malfeasance in Afghanistan.

I‘m surprised you can spell Afghanistan, Dick!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN:  “Bests” in a moment.  First, I got something here in the rundown called seagull newscast.  I can‘t wait.

Let‘s play “Oddball.”

It‘s another episode of behind the news.  From last night‘s Channel 9 evening news out of Melbourne in Australia, anchor Peter—hello—anchor Peter Hitchner does not realize the studio is being cased by giant seagull.  The background behind the newsman is a live shot across the Yarra River looking at Melbourne.

The crew said the bird started pecking at the station‘s camera just before the broadcast began.  That‘s Hitchner, not Hitchcock, who‘s reading a story about a 27-year-old cold murder case when the bird just happened to stroll past.  Police looking for a stool pigeon instead got this big seagull.  The bird refused to sing in regard of that old, cold case.

We did agree to drop the dime on this seagull from “Oddball” past, seen here pitching a bag of Doritos.

To the Temple of Hera of ancient, Olympian Greece, where actresses in pagan gowns gathered today to light the torch for the 2010 Vancouver Olympic Games beginning in February only here on the networks of NBC.  And they lit this puppy the hard way, using a concave mirror, the high priestess waited until the rays of the sun beam strong enough to cause a spark and the sun had not cooperated, there was a guy off camera with a Bic lighter.  The torch is now doing an eight day tour of Greece.  After which it will make its way to Canada, carried across the Atlantic Ocean in the mouth of the Cragen (ph). 

It‘s not enough that Dick Cheney took this country‘s eye off Afghanistan nearly eight years ago; now, he‘s trying to undermine a president who is actually trying to do something about Afghanistan. 

And inside an inside the White House lunch about which the far right has gone completely silly. 

But first, time for COUNTDOWN‘s top three best persons in the world.

Dateline New York, number number, best responsible comment from a guy I bash now, John Stossel, now Fox News.  He says he won‘t vote Republican if “conservative means stop all immigration and some other things that conservatives say.  If it means the Lou Dobbs kind of rants about immigrants wrecking America, I don‘t subscribe to that.  I think immigrants, by and large, do good things for America.”

I don‘t think Mr. Stossel cares what I think.  But I think he deserves applause for that. 

Dateline, Ft. Lauderdale, number two, best insurance company horror, Christina Turner.  She was slipped a knock-out drug by two men.  She awoke beaten up by the side of the road.  She believed she was sexually assaulted by them.  Doctors told her she should take anti-AIDS medicine for a month just to be sure. 

When it came time to get new insurance, she was denied because the use of the HIV medication was classified as a preexisting condition.  Just to turn the knife a little further, Ms. Turner used to be an underwriter for a health insurance company. 

And dateline Washington, Number on, best rationalization of greed; oil man T. Boone Pickens says American oil companies deserve Iraq‘s oil.  He testified to Congress that the oil fields are being opened, quote, “to other companies all over the world.  We‘re entitled to it.  Heck, we even lost 5,000 of our people, 65,000 injured and 1.5 trillion dollars.” 

See, what that is is a really good argument that the 65,000 injured and their families of the 5,000 dead, that they deserve the oil, and not you, T. Boone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN:  One month before last year‘s presidential election, and eight months after warnings from within its own administration that the situation in Afghanistan was headed downhill, the Bush administration launched a new review of Afghanistan policy.  Yet now, with a long list of Afghanistan war malfeasance under its belt, that government‘s loudest refugee, Dick Cheney, attacks President Obama again.  In our third story on the COUNTDOWN, he accuses the president of dithering on Afghanistan. 

The latest salvo from the vice president who turned dithering into an art form, last night at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, which gave Cheney an award, along with his former chief of staff, the convicted felon, Scooter Libby.  Mr. Cheney criticized Obama‘s national security policies, but seemed to marshal his greatest umbrage over his biggest failure, Afghanistan. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT:  Having announced his Afghanistan strategy in March, President Obama seems now afraid to make a decision and unable to provide his commander on the ground with the troops he needs to complete the mission. 

The White House must stop dithering while America‘s armed forces are in danger. 

Make no mistake, signals of indecision out of Washington hurt our allies and embolden our adversaries. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  Since it is a fact that Afghanistan‘s previous top commander, General David McKiernan, had submitted a request for more troops to then President Bush, a request that went denied, the White House hit back today through its Press Secretary Robert Gibbs. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  It‘s a curious comment given—I think it‘s pretty safe to say the vice president was for seven years not focused on Afghanistan.  Even more curious, given the fact that an increase in troops sat on desks in this White House, including the vice president‘s, for more than eight months, a resource request filled by President Obama in March. 

What Vice President Cheney calls dithering, President Obama calls his solemn responsibility to the men and women in uniform and to the American public. 

I think we‘ve all seen what happens when somebody doesn‘t take that responsibility seriously. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  And the Obama administration had to start its Afghanistan policy from scratch, according to White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, a point which reportedly infuriated certain former Bush officials, including Mr. Cheney.  With other failures, like former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld in attendance, Mr. Cheney said that the Bush administration had given the Obama transition team its Afghanistan review, and agreed with the Obama teams request to keep it quiet. 

But after the Bush administration screwed up the effort in Afghanistan, perhaps Obama‘s team thought it best to perform its own assessment.  After all, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs testified in December of 2007, quote, “in Afghanistan, we do what we can.  In Iraq, we do what we must.  Our main focus militarily, in the region and in the world right now, is rightly and firmly in Iraq.” 

A year later, the Draft National Intelligence Estimates, still under President Bush, had confirmed what many experts already knew, except the idiots inside the White House.  Afghanistan was in a downward spiral.  “The NIA‘s conclusions represent a harsh verdict on decision making in the Bush administration.” 

And this post script, the breathless coverage of Cheney‘s newest critique was covered before he gave that speech by Fox News, which had received an exclusive advance transcript of the Cheney speech.  That‘s what happens for outlets that are media arms of the GOP. 

Let‘s bring “Washington Post” associate editor, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist, and MSNBC political analyst Eugene Robinson.  Gene, I haven‘t seen you in forever.  How are you?

EUGENE ROBINSON, “THE WASHINGTON POST”:  It‘s great to be here, Keith.  It has been a long time since you and I were both on the broadcast at the same time. 

OLBERMANN:  Yes.  Well, we could spend an hour cataloging the warnings about Afghanistan during the latter years of the Bush administration.  Former Secretary of State Rice, Defense Secretary Gates warned about it in February of last year, 2008. 

On the Obama side of the ledger, the president approved a troop increase in March.  He‘s considering another.  With that kind of pile of evidence running against him, what was Mr. Cheney trying to achieve?  Do you have any idea? 

ROBINSON:  I thought about it, Keith.  Maybe he was just trying to make us all realize how much we missed him.  It makes absolutely no sense.  This is the man who is perhaps most responsible for our having abandoned the Afghanistan mission, turned to the utterly irrelevant and unnecessary Iraq mission, and allowed Afghanistan to slide into the perilous state that the Obama administration now finds it. 

The idea that he could criticize anyone on Afghanistan strategy, and then suggest that, oh, well, the Obama team should have just taken the Bush administration wisdom about the place—well, they didn‘t have much wisdom about the place.  Anyone with half a brain would have done their own assessment, since the Bush team, frankly, screwed it up. 

OLBERMANN:  It seems to me that if it were open, psychotherapists would bid high money for the rights to analyze Mr. Cheney in public on these issues he himself screwed up so much.  Maybe we should have asked this larger question first.  Why is anybody still listening to this man on this or any related field? 

ROBINSON:  It‘s a good question.  He‘s a former vice president.  He is

·         he says incendiary and often crazy things.  I think it‘s like a moth to a flame.  We tend to be drawn to people with fancy titles and pedigree, who say outrageous things.  So we pay attention to Dick Cheney, even though, if you think about what he‘s saying for five minutes, you wonder why is this worth coverage?  Why is this news?  And why should we trust his credibility on this issue or on many issues at all? 

OLBERMANN:  Of course, this was detailed—this speech was detailed on Fox last night before he gave it.  Having received a precious exclusive copy, they ran with it.  What is the point of that?  Firing up a decreasingly sized base? 

ROBINSON:  Well, I guess.  First of all, you find an outlet that will air your views breathlessly and repeatedly, and take them seriously.  I guess the idea is to continue to fire up the base.  I think the far right base is pretty fired up already.  The problem is, it‘s, in absolute terms, pretty small. 

I don‘t think you win the hearts and minds of independents and even moderate Republicans with this sort of attack, especially one that doesn‘t make any sort of literal sense. 

OLBERMANN:  Just from the political point, the idea is then to fire up every last troglodyte, in hopes of putting a dent in the Democrats in some midterm vote somewhere next year?  Get one House seat back? 

ROBINSON:  You get—maybe you get a few House seats back.  I don‘t know how many you get from this sort of attack.  Maybe it makes—maybe if you‘re Dick Cheney, it makes you feel good.  Maybe it makes you feel as if you still have support, and you were right along, and there are cheering legions who agree with you. 

But there I go.  I‘m doing that sort of pop psychoanalysis of the guy, which is what this whole situation invites.  It really is a bizarre thing for a former vice president to be doing. 

OLBERMANN:  Put your bid in a sealed envelope at the receptionist‘s desk.  She‘ll be happy to take care of it for you. 

ROBINSON:  I‘ll pay some money for that. 

OLBERMANN:  Gene Robinson, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist of the “Washington Post” and also with MSNBC.  Thank you, Gene. 

ROBINSON:  Great to be here, Keith. 

OLBERMANN:  If you like Sarah Palin, buy the new book “Going Rogue.” 

If you don‘t, buy the new book, out the same day, “Going Rouge.”

In worsts, Lindsey Graham says we all need to use all the coal that God made for us.  Senator, what about all the other naturally produced stuff, like some of your major herbal plants? 

When Rachel joins you at the top of the hour, her special guest, me?  Did anybody clear this with me?  We will react to the conservative over-reaction to our off the record lunch with you know who. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN:  The Beck theory that the government is using On Star to track your whereabouts.  This close to claiming they implanted microchips in his head. 

That‘s next, but first time for COUNTDOWN‘s number two story, tonight‘s worst persons in the world. 

The bronze to Boss Limbaugh.  I‘ll just read this: “Obama is out there saying that Fox News is talk radio.  I‘m living rent-free in this guy‘s head.  Fox News is talk radio.  If that‘s true, MSNBC is pornography.  And Obama likes MSNBC.  CNN is child porn.” 

Wow, his imagery gets more and more disturbing every day. 

The runner-up, Tucker Carlson, world sophistry champion.  “The two most senior members of the White House staff attempt to bully a news outlet into silence and hardly anyone in the press says a word.  Meanwhile, the same White House that had just finished lecturing working journalists on the superiority of straight news coverage hosted a secret, off the record briefing for Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow of MSNBC.  The two, along with several other liberal commentators, spent more than two hours with Obama.  Why is the press corps giving the White House a pass for behavior it never would have tolerated from other administrations?  Conservatives believe it‘s simple bias.”

I‘m a little tired of the sanctimonious, amnesic crap from people like Tucker Carlson.  The previous White House planted questions in its own news conference, secretly paid conservative columnists, staged massage briefing sessions for radio hosts, sent out a list of questions they hoped I would use to discredit Joe Wilson, publicly attacked NBC, publicly attacked MSNBC, by the admission of the press secretary, just the other day, cut MSNBC out of access to administration officials, and its party leadership tried to blackmail NBC News into removing me from election coverage by threatening to boycott a presidential debate. 

This White House finally called out a group of amoral political operatives posing as journalists.  That was it.  They didn‘t deny them credentials.  They didn‘t try to silence them.  They didn‘t take them off the air.  They didn‘t try to take them off the air.  They called them what they are, the media propaganda wing of the Republican party.

And I‘m a little tired of the false equivalency here.  You go ask this White House if they‘re happy that I‘m insisting on the public option when they‘re not.  You go ask this White House if they‘re happy that I‘m pushing for torture prosecutions and they‘re trying to soft pedal them. 

I don‘t know if the paranoids of this world, like Michelle Malkin, think Obama handed me my instructions, or she thinks I handed him his.  But when I support what this president is doing, it‘s because I think he is right.  The operative word is think. 

I‘m not, Rachel Maddow is not, Glenn freaking Beck or Michelle freaking Malkin, a knee jerk jukebox of party doctrine, screeching at every reform, mocking every expression of sympathy, repeating anything the nit-wits, which they serve as doctrine slaves, try to palm off on the sheep they hope will lead them back to power. 

I will tell you exactly what happened on Monday at the White House Monday; an off the record conversation about all the issues of the day, just like, I imagine, the one the president had with those four conservative columnists at George Will‘s house in January.  Also, we had the best damn peach cobbler I ever had in my life.

Our winner, Senator Lindsey Graham.  He says today he can support legislation to try to stop climate change, but at a price there.  “There will be no climate change with my vote unless you have offshore oil drilling.  I won‘t vote for any climate change bill that doesn‘t allow a dramatic increase in nuclear power.  I‘m not going to vote for any climate change bill that doesn‘t allow us to use our coal deposits.  We need to use the coal God has given us.” 

Senator, you do realize that the we need to use what God has given us argument can be applied to any natural substance on Earth, you know, like Marijuana?  Senator Lindsey “I did not say we need to use the Marijuana that God has given us” Graham, today‘s worst person in—I forgot. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN:  Finally, reverse Cliff Notes for the ex-governor of Alaska‘s upcoming memoir.  And also in our number one story on the COUNTDOWN, Lonesome Roads Beck thinks On Star will let the government track you at all time.  And the Russians are Fluorinating the water. 

But first, just 26 more pre-ordering days until “Going Rogue, An American Life” bewilders bookshelves.  And now a companion book, “Going Rouge, An American Nightmare.”  Editors of “The Nation” will release a collection of essays about the mavericky moose huntress the same day as Palin‘s 400 page word salad hits book stores. 

Nice cover art. 

The book‘s similarities have already prompted Fixed News to issue a warning—warning—warning to its viewers.  As “Entertainment Weekly” puts it, “might some hockey mom loving conservatives be confused enough to pick up the wrong book?  You bet ya.” 

Speaking of confused, Mr. Beck moving from nuts funny to nuts paranoid.  The Obama administration wants to spy on you using On Star.  See, On Star tracking security device for your car is fantastic technology if you trust the people whose hands are controlling the technology.  But On Star‘s client is GM.  GM got the bailout money.  Therefore, Barack Obama must be monitoring your flat tire inquiries from the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  It‘s great technology in the right hands.  Do you want the government to be able to know where you are in your car all the time?  Also be able to have a microphone in your car?  They have that.  All you have to do is turn it on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN:  Time now—Brian, close your key.  Time now to call in comedian Christian Finnegan.  His new CD and DVD “Oh Contraire” is available in stores and on iTunes.  Good evening, Christian.

CHRISTIAN FINNEGAN, COMEDIAN:  Keith, it‘s been too, too long. 

OLBERMANN:  Yes, it has.  Also, by the way, those medical alert bracelets, they‘re really secret tracking devices.  And the GPS voice doesn‘t just talk.  She also listens. 

FINNEGAN:  OK, Keith.  I understand you think it‘s all paranoia.  I‘ll just say this, before the election of Barack Obama, the voice on my GPS system had a lovely British accent.  Now, some Kenyan dude. 

OLBERMANN:  All right.  Do you have it in your heart to break this to Glenn Beck, that if you use some seven-year-old with Google Earth can follow him in realtime most of the day, without any assistance from the government, using On Star or anything else?

FINNEGAN:  Yes, I mean all the Orwellian hand ringing does seem a little quaint in the age of like cell phone pings and website cookies.  IF you really want to see Big Brother, just look in the mirror.  Sure, we all want to live our lives privately and without undue scrutiny.  But not quite as much as we want turn by turn directions to the nearest Hooters. 

OLBERMANN:  Possibly in Bob Dylan‘s voice, if they go through with that idea.  And also there‘s NSA spying that still hasn‘t been stopped.  Let‘s look over at the Palin and anti-Palin books here.  Sort of matter and anti-matter.  “Going Rouge,” the similarities between that and “Going Rogue,” are they going a confuse people?  Is there going to be a Bookers Movement that comes out of this, you know, angry Palin supporters storming the Walden books to complain about this? 

FINNEGAN:  I want to repeat myself, but I do want to reiterate that many of the Palin fans won‘t be able to locate a bookstore.  I can understand their confusion.  After all, not one word in either book was written by Sarah Palin. 

And they are going to be in different parts of the store.  Think about it, “The Nation‘s” book will be in the non-fiction section.  And Sarah Palin‘s book will be in the humor section, next to the Garfield anthology. 

OLBERMANN:  So we‘ve got “Going Rouge,” “Going Rogue.”  Is it a trilogy?  Is the third thing going be Levi Johnson “Going Vogue?” 

FINNEGAN:  Keith, what are you doing?  Keith, right now, there is a poor junior editor at Random House just going about his business, some kid who has devoted his entire life to the written word, and because of what you just did, a year from now, he‘s going to sitting across a lunch table saying, “I don‘t know, Levi, maybe you could delve a little bit into why—cross bows are so awesome.  And by the way, we‘re going to have to trim that section about how big Bristol‘s boobs got when she was pregnant.  Less is more.” 

OLBERMANN:  The thing about this with the book launch, with the Palin book, is that Oprah Winfrey is going to interview her.  And if it‘s a Palin in Chicago thing, would you have one of the studio audience give aways?  You get a moose and you get a moose and you get a moose. 

FINNEGAN:  Imagine their horror when they go out to claim their prize and all the moose have been shot dead, and Sarah Palin is hovering in a helicopter, cackling. 

OLBERMANN:  This is the oddest thing, because apparently the next book interview for Oprah Winfrey is Orly Taitz, the birther queen.  Is this equal time on the “Oprah Winfrey Show?”  She is going for the old Tom Snyder tomorrow moonhat crowd. 

FINNEGAN:  The whole Palin thing, what a slap in the face to Maury Povich.  That story has all the Povich hallmarks.  You‘re talking teen pregnancy.  You‘re talking inter-generational squabbles, Crystal Meth.  He‘s robbed of his crowning achievement, just so Oprah can get some ratings cover for her next 14 interviews with Maya Angelo.  It‘s not fair.

OLBERMANN:  And the staff and management of COUNTDOWN, some of which are related by marriage to Mr. Povich, appreciate that last defense of him.  Comedian Christian Finnegan, great thanks.  And my executive producer thanks you as well.  Good night. 

FINNEGAN:  Enjoy your Rocktober.   

OLBERMANN:  Thank you.  That‘s COUNTDOWN for this the 2,366th day since the previous president declared mission accomplished in Iraq.  I‘m Keith Olbermann, good night and good luck. 

And now to discuss the secret meeting of the trilateral commission in a dining room at the White House on Monday, with a very special guest—not that special—ladies and gentlemen, here is Rachel Maddow.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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COUNTDOWN

October 21, 2009

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT.

THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED

Guests: Rep. James Clyburn, Margaret Carlson, Nicole Lamoureaux, Richard Wolffe, Richard Lewis

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice-over): Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow?

The rebranding of a public option: "The Hill" reports House Democrats want to call it Medicare Part E, "Medicare for Everybody." Congressman Jim Oberstar's office, "People don't know what a public option is. Medicare is a public option." Even blue dog Mike Ross of Arkansas is in favor of "Medicare for Everybody."

Now, why does this seem so familiar?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, OCTOBER 7)

OLBERMANN: The public option is in broad essence, Medicare for everybody. Frame it that way, sell it that way, and suddenly, it doesn't sound like a threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Could it all be in the name? Our guest: House Majority Whip James Clyburn.

The free health clinic tour: You have already donated enough to hold one in Little Rock. Tonight, as donations pass $1.2 million, Nicole Lamoureaux of the National Association of Free Clinics joins us to announce the second one you have made happen.

Meltdown: The 2010 congressional race, the generic Democrat leads the generic Republican 51 to 39; only 19 percent have any confidence that the Republicans in Congress will make the right decisions for the country's future.

And GOP still sticks to what's working so very, very well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: All aboard, the tea party express is back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Richard Wolffe on the latest evidence of Republican implosion.

"Worsts": The White House says they are not truly a news organization. Among the claims: they play loose with the truth, alter the meanings, reverse the facts, they lie.

So, defending against those charges, Steve Doocy lies, claims a magazine ripped the White House for criticizing FOX noise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS HOST: The "Newsweek" column said that it essentially is un-American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: No. "Newsweek" said, "The O'Garbage Factor, FOX News isn't just bad. It's un-American."

And Michele Bachmann brings the crazy again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN ®, MINNESOTA: We have gangster government-a gangster government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Remember the computer program Republicans said would let the White House collect your e-mail address without your knowledge? Bachmann has just installed on her Web site, the same computer program.

The madness of American politics episode number eleventy billion-with my special guest: Richard Lewis.

All that and more-now on COUNTDOWN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: The whole thing is ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening from New York.

Seven words amid the town hall chaos of July and August that captured just how definitively the Democrats had been losing the message war in the health care debate: "Keep your government hands off my Medicare."

Our fifth story on the COUNTDOWN: Democrats in one chamber of Congress, at least, finally catching on to the selling point that Medicare is a public option-now looking to rebrand the public option as "Medicare for Everybody." And if it sounds trivial or demeaning, it apparently brought a House blue dog over to the side of the angels, and producing Medicare Part E, the "E" standing for-everybody?

Speaker Pelosi, unveiling to her members a public plan that would reimburse hospitals and providers at Medicare rates. What's more? The speaker making sure that such a robust public option would be cost effective, something the Senate Finance Committee vehemently disputed when it did not put the public option in its bill. The Congressional Budget Office concluding that the House public plan would come in well under $900 billion, which is President Obama's benchmark for any bill and it would be deficit neutral over 10 years.

It certainly didn't originate here, but someone on this newshour having advocated for Medicare for everybody two weeks ago tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: The public option is, in broad essence, Medicare for everybody. Frame it that way, sell it that way, and suddenly, it doesn't sound like a threat, turning this seemingly solid insurance which people have now for better or worse into something optional, and turning anything private into everything public.

Once you said Medicare for everybody, there would be just as much to explain. If you're under 65, you'd be paying for it, you wouldn't have to buy it, you won't have to change from whatever you have now. There are just as many caveats.

Still, the intent of all this would e clearer, Medicare for everybody might not be literally true, but instead of terrifying, it would be reassuring and the explanations and the caveats would be listened to and not shouted down as anger and fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: The House also taking the next step in taking away the insurance industry's antitrust exemption, the House Judiciary Committee voting 20 to nine to strip the insurance cartel of that exemption. Three Republicans switched sides to support the measure.

The Senate is hoping to follow suit. Chairman Leahy of the judiciary committee having introduced his own measure there. Majority Leader Reid said to be inclined to incorporate that measure into the broader health bill.

Meanwhile, doctors now facing the 21 percent in their Medicare payments come January, unless Congress steps in. The Senate still deadlocked on that issue, including Democrats amongst themselves. Only 47 senators-all Democrats-voting for a quick approval of a proposal that would have extended current rates through next year for doctors who treat seniors on Medicare. Thirteen Democrats and Independents voting with the Republicans against what's known as a "doctor's fix" because of concerns the bill's $250 billion price tag would add to the overall cost of reforming health care, adding that the majority leader's decision to bring this to a separate vote was disingenuous.

President Obama said to be entering a quiet period until congressional Democrats work things out. In a Democratic fund-raiser last night, the president is commenting on the quirks of his fellow party members.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, sometimes, Democrats can be their own worst enemies.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Democrats are an opinionated bunch.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: You know, the other side, they just kind of-sometimes-do what they're told.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: Democrats, you all are thinking for yourselves. I like that in you. But it's time for us to make sure that we finish the job here. We are this close.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: We are joined now by the House majority whip, James Clyburn of South Carolina.

Great thanks for your time tonight, sir.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, thank you so much for having me, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Speaker Pelosi has said she's close to the 218 votes that she'd need for the public plan tied to Medicare rates, Medicare for Everybody. As the member who counts the votes for the speaker, where do things stand? Do you have enough?

CLYBURN: Well, I think we're very close. We're getting there. That's been my standard response to anybody. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. I feel pretty good about this.

Our caucus is in a very good mood. And I think that the country is

demonstrating by all the surveys I've seen that the so-called "public

option" is, in fact, gaining support. And I think that it all depends on

how you cut it. And now, there are 56 percent in favor, or 65 percent, or

even under some circumstances, 71 percent

So, I think we're in a good place, and I think our caucus is in a very good mood.

OLBERMANN: And if we add in this slight bit of salesmanship of calling this "Medicare for Everybody," to explain to the people who don't just get it on the face of it. Is that-is that-could that conceivably actually make a difference in how this passes if it passes?

CLYBURN: Well, Keith, you and my good friend Jim Oberstar sold me on that branding sometime ago. And I do believe that will be a good way to brand this. Whatever this public option is, it should be called-in my opinion and yours and Jim Oberstar and a few others-Medicare Part E, "E" being for everybody.

I think that's a good way to do it because the American public has been living with this brand for a long time. They understand it. They like it. They accept it. And I think that's all we're trying to do here is expand Medicare.

OLBERMANN: I'm honored to be any part of it, sir.

About the Senate Finance Committee and it argued against and it voted against a public plan, saying it couldn't be done cost effectively. But the CBO says the House plan-your House plan-is cost effective. It's deficit neutral over the decade.

What-what does that tell us about the process that you really do need to run the numbers first to make sure everything scopes out the way it should?

CLYBURN: Yes, we should. I think we want the American people to look in on this. We have been as transparent as anything has been since I've been here. We want our fellow Congress people, on both sides of the aisle, to take a hard look at what we're doing, because we really feel that what we're doing is in the best interests of the American people, and we want to do it in such a way that not just Democrats would be voting for it. But we ought to have Republicans voting for it as well.

And when you are reducing the deficit-as we are doing in this deal

you are doing the whole thing under $900 billion and you're expanding coverage to 97 percent of the American people and you've got this significant expansion in community health centers to take care of whoever may fall through the cracks. That is what the American people would like to have, and that's what we ought to deliver to them in a bipartisan way.

OLBERMANN: So, sum that up for me, Congressman, in light of events of the last 24 hours-once everything's merged, once that final legislation gets agreed to by the House and the Senate, gets to the president's desk, do you believe that "Medicare for Everybody," public plan, will it be part of the health care bill that the president signs into law?

CLYBURN: I do believe that. I think that what we will have is a plan that the president will be pleased with, the American people will be happy to have. And I do believe it will bring tremendous honor to us in the United States Congress and we need all the help we can get right now.

OLBERMANN: If salesmanship works at this point, go for it.

Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina, the majority whip-it's always a pleasure and an honor to talk with you, sir. Thank you.

CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me.

OLBERMANN: For more on the politics of all this, let's turn now to Margaret Carlson, political columnist for "Bloomberg News" and Washington editor for "The Week" magazine.

Margaret, good evening.

MARGARET CARLSON, BLOOMBERG NEWS: Good evening, Keith.

OLBERMANN: All right. Well, I'm blushing for what the congressman.

But back to the.

CARLSON: You should be.

OLBERMANN: Yes.

"The Hill" reported today that Mike Ross of Arkansas spoke out in favor of Medicare Part E, "Medicare for Everybody," which is, it's the public option, with a different name on it. But the fact that he can support it presumably because he can sell it to his constituents, should we be reading the fine print of what's actually in the legislation to make sure that it's actually in the legislation, that these are the same things and that we're not trying to sell people different things?

CARLSON: God forbid, we should read 2,000 pages, Keith. Especially in light of your rebranding, working to get some blue dog Democrats on board. And, in fact, you know, the public option was so maligned and mischaracterized for the month of August that, you know, you have to pull it back with something simple like Medicare-not that it's simple-but Medicare Part E, which is-which is really what it is.

I mean, you know, there was a time when insurance was a nonprofit business. You know, the police, education-most of it is a public service. Insurance used to be nonprofit to model something like that because health care is a public service. Then it got to be for-profit.

Now, if this-the bill goes forward that has an individual mandate, which is you have to buy insurance, should the government be driving 40 million new customers into the arms of a flawed system? Should Aetna just get that handed to them for a few concessions like, you know, not hanging denials on preexisting conditions? That's why there needs to be a public option.

OLBERMANN: What does Mr. Ross' support of this suggest to you, in terms of the final outcome here?

CARLSON: That they can-yes, they can. They can do it.

You know, it looked like the House was always much closer than the Senate. If the House moves along and if the public option loses the negative connotations of, you know, death panels and grandma under the bus and socialism, and people understand it for what it is, you don't have to take it, you can have it.

And this other, you know, sort of, you know, falsehood that's out there is that, oh, there are 1,300 insurance plans you can sign up for? Well, some states have one. There's got to be competition for all these new customers-or all we're doing is enriching Aetna and CIGNA and WellPoint.

OLBERMANN: I'm fascinated by the vote, the 20-to-six vote on the

doctor's quick fix where some Democrats went against it, some independents

went against it and some Republicans went for it. Republicans and

Democrats voting on the same side of what is essentially a doctor and to

some degree patient-friendly bill, that would be-what's that word again

bipartisanship, wouldn't it? Serious bipartisanship, though.

CARLSON: Oh, you know, the doc fix always goes through.

OLBERMANN: Yes.

CARLSON: The doctors, this time, would like a permanent fix. I don't think the system can take a permanent fix of this. Let's just get it done this one year.

And Republicans are not against it, they are for it. They are just making it difficult saying, "Show us the money. Make it pay as you go." They'll figure this one out.

OLBERMANN: And speaking of making it difficult, the president is supposedly going for this quiet period, he's going to sit on the sidelines. With the greatest respect to the president and his desires, a snowball's chance in hell, is that what he's got of pulling that off in the next few weeks?

CARLSON: Yes. That's just like as you taking a time out, Keith.

You know, he may step back for, you know, a minute or two, but, you know, to pull this thing back, he had to be on the air in September. He was criticized for that. I think it's fine to say he's going to drop back for a minute, but it won't last for long.

OLBERMANN: Margaret Carlson of "Bloomberg News" and "The Week" magazine-as always, great thanks, Margaret.

CARLSON: Thanks, Keith.

OLBERMANN: We suggested two specific actions in that "Special Comment" two weeks ago. No claim that either was my idea, but besides the rebranding of the public option as "Medicare for Everybody," there was also the idea of funding free health care clinics in key cities in the states represented by the Democratic senators still hedging on the idea of just blocking a Republican filibuster against health care reform.

You, of course, came through like a champion. We've already got one scheduled in Little Rock, Arkansas. Tonight, we will announce the second one and the third one in the books-next on COUNTDOWN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Your generosity and commitment to health care for everybody has done it again and again. Next, Nicole Lamoureaux of free health clinics of America announcing the second and third special clinics funded by you and other COUNTDOWN viewers.

While you spend your money on generosity with political undertones, the Republicans continue their winning strategy: angry, backwards-looking, xenophobic protests wearing old hats. And poll results show it has already cost the party 20 percent of its membership since August.

And accused of not really being a news organization, of faking stuff and lying, of as "Newsweek" described them of being un-American, FOX News responds by lying and claiming the "Newsweek" had called the criticism un-American. Nice.

You're watching COUNTDOWN on MSNBC. Nice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: What so many ordinary citizens don't get is how politicians-particularly some Democrats-can stare straight into the abyss of a broken health care system and yet not want to do what's necessary to fix it.

But in our fourth story on the COUNTDOWN: Because of your generosity, there will now be a free health fair in a major city of a state that ranks 49th in health care, and in which that state's Democratic senator is still dragging her feet on "Medicare for Everybody," public option.

And on top of that, we have just found out there will be a third health fair. The Democratic senator from Louisiana, Mary Landrieu, says she might be persuaded to support some form of a public option, this according to NPR. Quoting her, "In some states at the end of the line, they don't believe they're going to have the kind of choice that we think consumers and businesses need. If the costs are still too high, then perhaps a fallback or a trigger, but something that is on a level playing field."

Fallback, triggers, states at the end of the line-Senator Landrieu's state ranks 49th in overall health care, out of the 50 in the United States, plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico-this according to the Commonwealth Fund's independent research.

Louisiana ranks 45th for prevention and treatment. It ranks 37th for access to health care. But because of the generous donations to the National Association of Free Clinics, a free health fair is now scheduled for New Orleans on November 14th.

And back to the one in Little Rock, Arkansas, on November 21st, which we previously announced, nearly 17,000 people have donated $1.2 million. And another big announcement on this front, literally just in, there will now be a two-day long free health fair in Kansas City, Missouri, December 9th and 10th. The goal has been to hold these health fairs in key cities of the states represented by Democratic senators who have not yet said whether they support an up or down vote on the public option. We'll explain why Missouri gets into that mix in a moment.

You can get more details on these things or you can give what you can, we appreciate it sincerely, at FreeClinics.us, or at our site, COUNTDOWN.MSNBC.com.

And now the woman who makes all this possible, the executive director of the National Association of Free Clinics, Nicole Lamoureaux.

Good evening, Nicole.

NICOLE LAMOUREAUX, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FREE CLINICS: Hello.

Thank you for having me.

OLBERMANN: Of course.

The New Orleans free health fair-it has a potential to be really kind of landmark in this process. Do we have more details yet?

LAMOUREAUX: Well, we're excited. We're going there, as you said, November 14th. We'll be at the convention center and we do expect this to be one of the largest health clinics that the National Association of Free Clinics has seen, and we're really looking towards your viewers to come out and help us and be volunteers that day, as well as we will be seeing patients.

So, we will be giving your show some information in the upcoming days as to how they can sign up to be a volunteer, as well as they can sign up to be a patient.

OLBERMANN: Excellent. People like to get involved and then see where their money went and there's no better way to do it than to be there.

Explain the other part, this late announcement about Kansas City, about Missouri rather than the more obvious things in our, sort of, political undertone to this, Montana or Nevada.

LAMOUREAUX: Well, I think that what we want to do is we want to make sure-as we've talked about before-that there are 1,200 free clinics every single day making sure that people have a place to go for their primary medical care. And in some of the states of the Union, we don't have a robust free clinic network.

But in Missouri, we do. We have a very, very strong network of people in Kansas City, we're able to do a two-day fair. And what we're able to do a show that in the middle of the country, in America's heartland, our working Americans have the same problems that we're seeing in our urban areas and into the coast.

It's the opportunity for us to make a huge statement that people need a good quality health care package, and doing this in Missouri gives us the opportunity to show what a safety net system can bring to the table.

OLBERMANN: So, we're sort of viewing this as the national version of the whole process. This is our-applies to every state in the Union kind of thing.

But explain then-you mentioned something that probably is as troubling as we all feel a little bit giddy about the success of this, those states you mentioned where there simply are no free clinics, there is no free clinic network. What do these people do? Is it-are they in the hospital emergency rooms? Are they neglecting their own health care to dangerous levels? What happens to them?

LAMOUREAUX: They are doing all of the things that you spoke about.

When someone has no place to go for their primary care home, they neglect their health care-as we have seen from countless studies. They go to the emergency room, where we know that emergency rooms are flooded. We know that for a fact.

But they also incur a massive amount of debt, because they're trying to take care of themselves and take care of their families, and they don't have a place to go. And free clinics are volunteer health care systems. They're started by people who talk at their churches or at their book clubs.

And we hope that people in those states that don't have a robust free clinic network will start them. But we also want to make sure that when we go in and have a clinic on a day, that it's about the follow-up care that we can give to those patients as well.

OLBERMANN: And quickly, just one final thing for people who might be encountering this whole issue for the first time, give that most stark number again-the percentage of people you see at these free clinics who have jobs.

LAMOUREAUX: Eighty-three percent.

OLBERMANN: Eighty-three percent. And this is the free country we have right now.

Well, thank goodness, we can make so small pushback against it.

Nicole Lamoureaux, the executive director of the National Association of Free Clinics-as always, great thanks and we'll talk to you soon.

LAMOUREAUX: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: Ad my thanks to Rich Stockwell (ph), my crack staff who suggested our involvement in this and hit a home run what he did.

One-fifth of all those identifying themselves as Republicans in August of this year are not identifying themselves as Republicans tonight. The poll with the dramatic new evidence that the GOP is cratering-and it's response: more tea parties.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: "Bests" in a moment. And-so, doesn't that mean it used to be White House approved?

First, on this date in 1775, fate removed the name of Payton Randolph from his deserved place among the heroes of the American independents. He died of a stroke, apoplexy as they called it at that time, after months of failing health. And thus, when the independents he fought for was proclaimed not nine months later, his successor's name was on the declaration, not his, his successor, John Hancock. Payton Randolph was the first president of the Continental Congress.

Let's play "Oddball."

We begin in England, where 10 days from Halloween, Londoners remain vigilant against the heighten threat of witches as tourist attraction, the London Dungeon has set up a foolproof way of identifying people who are involved in the dark arts. A man dressed like the famous 17th century English witch hunter, Hunter Matthew Hopkins, asked prospective witches to sit on the scale, he then places an oversized Bible on the other side. If the subject weighs less than the Bible, she's a witch, and must be born at the stake. Hurrah for science.

Our cameraman said he knew one woman was a witch because she had turned him into a newt. He paused for a moment and added (INAUDIBLE).

Finally, to a minor league soccer match in Spain this past weekend, the player in the circle here is injured, trainers respond to call for a stretcher, only the team doesn't have a stretcher. So, they load the injured player on to a door. Somewhere in the stadium, someone is now literally sitting in a public restroom. The player was doored off the field and appeared to not mind the ride despite the doorknob in his back.

By the way, they have a well-functioning single payer health care system in Spain. Still, we expect to see this video in a Republican attack ad soon in this country.

Poll numbers plummet for those Republicans, so don't fix what ain't broken. They stick with teabag parties and Michele Bachmann. Richard Wolffe on the former, Richard Lewis on the latter. That's ahead, but first, COUNTDOWN's top three best persons in the world.

Dateline, New York, number three, best complete reversal of reality, Brian Kilmeade and Steve Doocy of Cluster Fox and Friends. Kilmeade first. He quoted a Pew Research Survey today to show how balanced they are. And he said it proved 39 percent of you are Republicans, the viewers, 33 percent are Democrats. That was last year's Pew Research Survey. This year's, released a month ago, tells a different story. "More than three times as many Republicans, 34 percent, as Democrats, 10 percent, say they get most of their national and international news from Fox."

Doocy, whining about the White House correctly saying Fox Noise is not a news organization: "I did do a little Google thing, and the 'Newsweek' column said that is essentially un-American."

Swing and a miss. The "Newsweek" column called Fox News un-American, not the administration's reaction to Fox News. The title was, "The O'Garbage Factor; Fox News Isn't Just Bad, It's Un-American."

Inside it said, "the Australian/British continental model of politicized media that Murdoch has applied at Fox is un-American."

Accused of not being a real news organization, Doocy blatantly lies about what was in a magazine. Way to prove the point.

Dateline London, number two, best let them eat cake-ism, Brian Griffiths, adviser to the Goldman Sachs investment firm. The "Wall Street Journal" reports that bailed-out banks will pay their people more this year than at the height of the bubble in 2007, 140 billion. Mr. Griffith's reaction, tough. "We have to tolerate the inequality as a way to achieve greater prosperity and opportunity for all."

To borrow the aprocyphal line from Tonto to the Lone Ranger, who's this we, Kimosabe? You, Mr. Griffiths, you may have to tolerate your corporate protection being dismantled by the people.

Dateline, New York, number one, best-number-I will try that in English. Number one, best accidental truth revelation, Sean Hannity, who has added a new line to the start of his comedy show every night, "free-minded patriotic Americans, this program is not White House-approved."

Of course, without realizing it, Mr. Hannity is thus implying that until January of this year, his allegedly fair and balanced show was White House approved!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: When anti-government protesters targeted President Obama and other Democratic leaders on April 15, the party took a hit. When town halls raged and the Tea Bag crowd hit Washington, the party staggered further. Now, the Tea Bag guys are on the move again. But in our third story tonight, signs that the party getting hurt by the anti-government Tea Bag people is the Republican party.

This week's "Washington Post"/ABC poll found 51 percent of Americans say that in next year's Congressional vote, faced with the generic Democrat versus the generic Republican, they'll vote for the Democrat; 39 percent will vote for the Republican. Only 19 percent have at least a good amount of confidence in Congressional Republicans to make the right decisions, far lower than Democrats or the president, for that matter.

And the number of Americans calling themselves Republicans has fallen to 20 percent -- 20, the lowest since 1983. A closer look shows that number has fallen from 25 percent just since mid-August. That's not a five percent loss for Republicans. Dropping from 25 percent to 20 percent is a loss of a fifth. Meaning since the height of town hall, Palin, Beck, death panel palooza, one out of five Republicans has stopped being Republican.

Republicans stopped at 25 percent back in March too, nine days after Tea Bag nations. Republicans were down to 21 percent. Naturally, Republicans are trying again. That's right, Tea Party Express II launches this weekend, coming to 38 cities, according to its press release, 37 on their website. Oh, well.

Previous Tea Parties so successful, they now have to hold them in such venues as Wichita's Lawrence Piedmont Stadium (ph) parking lot, Fallon (ph) Nevada's old Walmart's parking lot, a high school auditorium in Tri-Cities in Washington, Bozeman, Montana's Heritage Christian School gymnasium, and in Amarillo, Texas, John Stiff Memorial Park, picnic area number four. Seriously, picnic area number four. Don't interrupt the outing in area number three, please.

A dozen cities have no venue listed at all. According to the tour's Facebook page, "192 people are planning to attend these rallies."

In its own press release, a spokesman says about its new video, the web video promoting the tour, quote, "the tone of the ad is upbeat and positive." The name of the upbeat, positive ad is, "Countdown to Judgment Day."

And here's what upbeat and positive sounds like to these people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had enough of the out-of-control spending, bailouts, higher taxes, a spiraling national debt and big-government liberalism, then we invite you to join the Tea Party Express rally nearest you. We'll send a message to the politicians. Come election day, we're going to hand you a pink slip and take our country back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Let's bring in upbeat and positive MSNBC political analyst Richard Wolffe, author of "Renegade: The Making of a President," and a senior strategist at public strategies. Richard, good evening.

RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Correct me if I'm mistaken here, but have not Fox and Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck and Michael Steele and Sarah Palin-have they all not sold us on a narrative that it is the Democratic party that's in trouble after all of this?

WOLFFE: Well, they sold the media pretty well on it. And they sold it through the summer, the apparent collapse of Barack Obama's numbers, and the disastrous end of health care as we know it. And more importantly, I think, this has been a sustained narrative over many years, the idea that the country as a whole is essentially Republican in nature, conservative leaning.

If you look-you break down this decline, not just what we have seen over the last year, but since the start of the Bush presidency, the declines have been steepest in what Republicans dismissively say Democrats think of as flyover country. In the Midwest, with anyone who's not a frequent church-goer-and most worrying for Republicans, among young voters.

People who came of age through the Bush years should, according to historical trends, be leaning towards a Republican affiliation. In fact, the Republicans have seen their steepest declines among that younger age group. Which means going forward, they have a very serious problem.

OLBERMANN: The first statistic that I cited here is bad enough, dropping from 25 percent of the country in your party to 20 percent in your party in just two months. But there's another number in there, 19 percent have at least a good amount of confidence that the Republicans will make the right decisions. That was at 29 percent at the start of the year. One out of three Americans who had confidence in the Republican party nine months ago no longer has that confidence. What happened?

WOLFFE: Yes, we're seeing this across a number of different polls. And it used to be at least, in the summer, when Republicans would say, oh, well, everyone in Congress is just the same. Democrats are pulling away in that trust or confidence match up question. And I think it shows the limit of the sort of parliamentarian tactics that Republicans have used.

You can oppose. You can block. Can you threaten filibusters. You can do all of the stunts they do on the Hill, and block and work as a pretty effective opposition party. But come election time, you haven't broadened the base; you frustrated the government party. But you haven't actually done anything to find new voters. That's exactly where they're starting out this next cycle, and it's not good.

OLBERMANN: And the idea-here we go, another set of Tea Parties, which are now getting laughable prepared attendance numbers and locations. When they tried to scare everybody all the time, and in election cycles-and that began to fail in 2004. And then it failed in 2006. They just tried harder to scare everybody all the time for 2008. That really failed.

Is this connected to why they're back to the same things, Tea Parties, paranoia, only meaner? I'm thinking of Ray Goulding's old line, since you don't understand English, I'll raise my voice.

WOLFFE: It worked to a degree. Actually, it worked pretty well in 2002 and 2004. But back in 2002, the parties were at parity in terms of the self-identification in the polls. They were all running around 30 percent in terms of Democrats, Republicans and independents. Those tactics, different era-they just haven't worked in the latter Bush years. You know, they're going to scare people all the way to an independent party.

OLBERMANN: Richard Wolffe of MSNBC, author of "Renegade," senior strategist with Public Strategies. As always, great thanks.

WOLFFE: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Richard Lewis on one of those craziest elements going on. When the White House did something a few months ago like this, the Republicans went nuts. Now Michele Bachmann's done the same thing.

And there's no doubt about it now, Lou Dobbs is ripping off Glenn Beck.

And when Rachel joins you at the top of the hour, an exclusive George W. Bush as a motivational speaker? She will talk to the woman who selected Mr. Bush to speak at the Monster Truck Rally of motivational speaking conventions. Your cost, 19 dollars to see him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Richard Lewis on the latest Michele Bachmann thing. Look, we're supposedly going to talk about that. But I honestly have very little say in what happens after I say good evening.

That's next, but first time for COUNTDOWN's number two story, tonight's worst persons in the world.

The bronze tonight to news actress Gretchen Carlson, of Cluster Fox and friends, responding this morning-or yesterday morning, rather, to Fox's report that Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was asked at a White House morning news gaggle about an off-the-record lunch Monday at the White House, and a report that amongst the guests were Ms. Maddow and myself. "In this reported gaggle was Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann, who are opinion people over at MSNBC."

Take two. Gibbs was at the reporter gaggle. He was asked about who was at the lunch. And as to opinion people, Ms. Carlson, opinion is a vital and part of this news hour. When I do it, I call it such. This ain't Beck or Chris Wallace over here. However, there are also more bare boned facts during this hour than there are during a week of Fox News.

The runner-up, Lonesome Roads Beck. An example, this is hilarious. "In the last couple of years, I have been trying to read a different founding father all the time. I'm currently reading about Samuel Adams. Progressives have been fighting for decades to achieve the power to decide for you and erase the Republicans. Now they just want to call it a democracy. They've come a long, long way. Bit by bit, piece by piece, they have been chipping away at your individual freedoms. We call them progressives now, but back in Samuel Adams' day, they used to call them tyrants. A little later, I think they're also called slave owners."

At least a dozen of the founding fathers, 12, maybe 24 of the 56 signatories to the Constitution, they owned slaves. And just the other day, Beck defended the clause in the Constitution, which was later amended, that had made it illegal to banish slavery for 20 years after the Constitution was adopted. The "New York Post" reported today that Mr. Beck has an armed guard, which is very odd because clearly his biggest enemy is himself.

But our winner tonight, Lou Dobbs, proving he is indeed simply ripping off what Beck says on Fox. He puts it on CNN, where he once did a pretty good news show. "Well, another high-ranking White House appointee extolling the virtue of Chinese Leader Mao Tse-Tung. When White House manufacturing czar Ron Bloom was an executive at the United Steelworkers Union, he addressed a 2008 forum on the union role in bankruptcy. White House Communication Director Anita Dunn, last June, also cited Mao as one of the great political philosophers in her life. Well, to hear more of my thoughts on all of the president's czars and their fascination with Mao Tse-Tung, please join me on the radio."

Dunn made a joke about Mao. Bloom quoted Mao in passing. Newt Gingrich quoted Mao. The only person fascinated with Mao is Beck. And now Dobbs is ripping off Beck. Lou Dobbs, today's worst person in the-where are my teeth-world!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Wasn't it Michele Bachmann who said she's a foreign correspondent on enemy lines, and "I try to let everyone back here in Minnesota know exactly the nefarious activities that are taking place in Washington?" Congressman Bachmann, I have a nefarious activity for you to report. Our number one story, your government-run website could be spamming people. Our friend, Richard Lewis, joins us presently.

But first, the details on this. Alert the media, or at least Scooby-Doo, it is the case of the data mining Congresswoman, who was eager to get the latest in re-education camp, CO2 is natural byproduct of nature, let's slit our wrists and be blood brother news, otherwise known as the "Bachmann Bulletin." Michele Bachmann's Twitter page tells you how: "if you're interested in receiving mobile updates from me, text MN6 to 467468"-

4793875248743 -- "or visit Bachmann.House.gov, and subscribe. Thanks so much."

Once on her Congressional website, run by the very gangster government she has railed against, just enter your first and last name and an e-mail address. In fact, it doesn't have to be your name or your e-mail address. It could be somebody else's, somebody you really don't like. Well, that seems easy. It also seems very similar to the approach adopted by the White House, asking people to send in disinformation about health care reform, that Bachmann's Republican colleagues branded as an Obama monitoring plan, that the White House eventually shut down after heckling from Fixed News.

One Democratic official tells "Politico," "Bachmann is using official government resources in a way that allows groups to simply add individual e-mails into her government-run database." When this inconvenient truth was pointed out to her office, they maintained they are following the rules. "If individuals decide they do not want to receive these updates, they can always opt out."

And she would have gotten way with it, if it weren't for your meddling kids. Joining me now, as promised, currently in his seventh season as one of the stars of "Curb Your Enthusiasm," Richard Lewis.

And Prince, I have to start with a question for you.

RICHARD LEWIS, "CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM": Anything.

OLBERMANN: You're currently on your Misery Loves Company stand-up tour. Where will you be performing next?

LEWIS: I don't know-well, I wind up somewhere in San Antonio and somewhere in Cleveland and the Napa Valley, as a recovering alcoholic in Napa Valley. They'll probably just throw, here's ten grapes. Use your imagination, moron.

I haven't performed in a nightclub in Hollywood in 30 years, but I'm doing this for Lenny Bruce's wonderful daughter Kitty, who is a recovering addict herself. And she's starting a place called Lenny's House-Lenny's Home, I believe. Yes, Lenny's House. I'm going to do a show with four or five great comedians at the Laugh Factory on the 28th of October. It's going to rock the house. Please, come down. And everyone has people in their lives who are affected by excessive alcohol and drugs. So we're going to do a great thing.

And there's a great auction with Lenny's stuff and-

OLBERMANN: Excellent.

LEWIS: And typewriters and his clothes. So it's all good. But you have to show me Glenn Beck-it's the 28th at the Laugh Factory in Hollywood. But Glenn Beck, this dreg, Bachmann, Schlochmann (ph). What's wrong? Why do we-here's my theory on this. Are you ready, Keith?

OLBERMANN: Yes, yes.

LEWIS: Look, there's about two or three percent, we can't help it, fanatical people. Some of them make their way into Congress. It's scary, OK. But they're so out of touch, they're like aliens. There should be a March on Washington like 97 percent; they could be libertarians, Republicans or independents-

Not Lieberman. This Lieberman, I think he's soulless. You know, he wouldn't shake my hand once. I did a speech, got a standing ovation -- because I work very hard for the Democrats. He gave a speech. And then I had never met him. This is like 15 years ago. And I extended my hand to the senator, and he said-he pulled his hand back, Keith, and he said to me-he says, I know your material.

Well, he wouldn't even shake-he wouldn't shake my hand. And then I realized he had became a turncoat.

OLBERMANN: Maybe-was he a germaphobe? Was he Howie Mandel or something? Was it political?

LEWIS: No. No. Look, I popped out-as Bob Dylan was said, I was born here and I will die here against my will. I'm not a big organized religion guy.

OLBERMANN: Yes.

LEWIS: But I'm a spiritual cat. And I know he's very religious as a Jew. Although, I don't think in my lifetime-he was way too Jewish, like if the bombs are coming and he's having-you know, it's Friday night, Mr. President, the bombs are ten minutes away. He couldn't-his dog was named Shalom. His wife was a Dachshund. Too much.

But he didn't shake my hand. He's screwing us up now with the public option. It's unbelievable. I'm really-I've been hearing what everybody is saying, you, Gene and everybody, Wolffe-all these guys are so smart. The thing that's really upsetting a lot of us-and I'm not one of the left wing nut cases-but the truth of the matter is, our president, he inherited-I would have voted for a Muppet after what happened after these eight years. What this guy inherited, it's unbelievable. And he's trying his best to do a lot of things at once. Whether that's wise, I don't know.

But the bottom line is, you know, it's unfair for these people to scare 49 percent of Americans. These are leaders. I don't know how many people are in Congress altogether. But these people are multi-millionaires. They live an amazing life. And they're screwing over 300 million people, and certainly almost 50 million out of health insurance. And it's driving me crazy.

So my initial thought was, we should all walk on Washington, make a march on Washington, but like, you know, the vocal majority of Americans all-you know, really bipartisan. Forget about what the president wants to do. It's a very nice thought. But it ain't working. And I want America to show-the Americans should show up on that-in Washington and say, hey, these three percent nut cases showing up with guns and saying all of this crap on the air and scaring people, that's not what-we don't believe in that.

That's why they only have 20 percent red meat people. Let them do what they want to do. But it's really killing this country. This country is still has, you know, very, very quiet racist qualities, anti-Semitic qualities, but only a few percentage points. And I think we have to prove to the world that this country really is a melting pot. And it's not crazy. And it's-and we have to do something. Am I done?

OLBERMANN: Well, all right. I was going to say, we can do this, but we can't get insurance for it. That's the problem. Richard Lewis-

LEWIS: Oh, Rachel-

OLBERMANN: I have to sign off now. You can catch him on "Curb Your Enthusiasm." The comedy tour Misery Loves Company stops in Hollywood, as you mentioned, on the 28th of this month. The benefit is for Lenny's House. You make a lot of sense.

LEWIS: For Lenny Bruce's daughter.

OLBERMANN: Yes. We mentioned that. To get the point across.

LEWIS: And that's not-the point is I'm a proud-I'm proud to be an American and I think Rachel will prove that right now, that the majority of us know what's right. That's the deal.

OLBERMANN: Amen, brother. Good to talk to you, my friend.

LEWIS: And I'm not going to read her memoir, because it's a coloring book anyway. It's only three pages.

OLBERMANN: The Sarah Palin book? Yes, OK.

LEWIS: That's right.

OLBERMANN: She's going on "Oprah." So that will-I don't know what they will do for the last 45 minutes.

LEWIS: Can't wait to watch it.

OLBERMANN: That's COUNTDOWN for this 2,365th day-he's-since the previous president declared mission accomplished in Iraq. I'm Keith Olbermann, good night and good luck.

Now, with her special guest, the woman who booked George W. Bush to appear alongside Terry Bradshaw and the Reverend Robert Schuller (ph) at a business mega seminar for $19. Ladies and gentlemen, here is Rachel Maddow. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, HOST: Good evening, Keith. Thank you.

And thanks to Richard, too. That was quite an endorsement.

KEITH OLBERMANN, "COUNTDOWN" HOST: That's your motivational speaker right there, by the way. Get them up there and let them go. OK.

MADDOW: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: I owe you a minute.

MADDOW: Fair enough.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END

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