updated 3/23/2010 2:38:52 PM ET 2010-03-23T18:38:52

Guests: George Miller, Steve McMahon, Ron Christie, Jennifer Donahue,

Stephen A. Smith, Elijah Cummings, James Clyburn, Howard Dean, David Frum

HOST:  Good evening, Americans, and welcome to THE ED SHOW

tonight from New York.

These stories are hitting my hot buttons tonight.  Take a guess. 

President Obama will sign the historic health care reform legislation into

law tomorrow.  He and Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker, they got it done.  This is

what leadership looks like. 

Majority Whip Jim Clyburn and Howard Dean will join me in just a moment

right off the top tonight. 

And let history show that not a single Republican voted in favor of the

most significant legislation since Medicare.  Health care reform is turning

out to be Waterloo for the Republicans.  Commentary coming on that later. 

Plus, Tiger Woods answers questions for the first time since leaving a

sexual rehabilitation clinic.  And Stephen A. Smith will talk about what

it‘s going to be like for him in the Masters.  That‘s coming up in the


Now, this is the story that has a lot of hardworking people in this country

fired up.  Ted Kennedy‘s dream of universal health care is just hours away

from becoming a reality in this country. 

The hundred-year war to make health care a fundamental right in America is

upon us.  And I can say that I think the good side won. 

What a loss.  What a loss for the right-wing network across the street. 

Think about the hours that they spent just trying to take apart President

Obama, talk down the proposals, talk down the change, the fear-mongering

that went on.  What a loss for the conservative right-wing talkers of

America who lied repeatedly about what‘s actually in the bill and what it‘s

going to do for the American people. 

This is a loss for the Tea Partiers.  I guess they just didn‘t organize

well enough.  Maybe they weren‘t loud enough.  They lose. 

In fact, I think this is bigger than President Obama winning the election. 

You see, we had this run-up to the election.  Obama beats McCain.  Huge

upset.  He wins nine Bush states.

In his first major initiative within 18 months he gets the victory.  You

may not like the bill totally, but it is a first step.  It‘s the cracking

the door open, the kicking it down. 

And yes, conservatives, we‘re on our way to single payer.  We‘re going to

get there some day. 

Of course it‘s always the darkest before dawn.  Some Tea Partiers showed

their true colors on Saturday.  Couldn‘t be without this, could we? 

Congressman John Lewis and fellow African-Americans had to endure multiple

shouts of the N-word.  A protester spit on African-American Congressman

Emanuel Cleaver.  Homophobic slurs were yelled at Congressman Barney Frank. 

There was no decorum in the people‘s House, either, because they were just

frustrated they were losing.  This happened when Congressman Bart Stupak

tried to address the House floor last night. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Those who are shouting out are out of order. 

REP. RANDY NEUGEBAUER ®, TEXAS:  -- baby killer. 


SCHULTZ:  Well, Texas Congressman Randy Neugebauer was the member who

shouted out “baby killer” at Stupak.  He just did it because Stupak

negotiated a deal with the White House to make sure no federal funds were

going to pay for abortions. 

Neugebauer released a statement today saying, “Last night was the climax of

weeks and months”—you can throw in a year there if you wanted—“of

debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear.” 

They fear health care reform in the 19th District in Texas?  Interesting. 

And, of course, they do not support it. 

“In the heat of the motion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘It‘s a

baby killer.‘  I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted

as a direct response, reference to Congressman Stupak, himself.  I have

apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologized to my colleagues for the

manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill.”

Hold it right there.  Are we getting into double figures yet? 

How many times have the Republicans apologized this year for stuff that

they said when you know they really meant it? 

Well, anyway, the man who forgot he lost the last election said this, this

morning, on “Good Morning America.”


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN ®, ARIZONA:  With all this euphoria that‘s going on,

this inside-the-beltway champagne toasting and all that, outside the

beltway the American people are very angry.  And they don‘t like it and

they‘re going—and we‘re going to try to repeal this.  And we are going

to have a very spirited campaign coming up between now and November, and

there will be a very heavy price to pay for it. 


SCHULTZ:  You know, you can‘t take issue with that.  I agree that there are

some Americans out there that are angry, that haven‘t read the bill, that

only listen to the right-wing talkers and the righties across the street. 

But there‘s not enough of them. 

You see, they lost.  They lost again. 

The Republicans have tried to make this about fear and politics and not

what we should do.  They just don‘t get it.  They lost and the liberals,

well, we won because we have the facts on our side. 

What a victory for change.  This is a jobs bill, if you want to really dig

into the detail.  This is a bill about morality and who we are as a people. 

Our leaders have chosen to make this about people and not gouging profits

for CEOs.  And inexplicable profits after cutting people off their


Middle class Americans, just look at it this way.  You woke up this morning

knowing that the health care you have now is a right.  It‘s your benefit. 

It helps your children.  And it is your entitlement. 

You might not feel it yet, but significant change is on the way.  This is

what President Obama had to say after the victory. 



but it is major reform.  This legislation will not fix everything that ails

our health care system, but it moves us decisively in the right direction. 

This is what change looks like. 


SCHULTZ:  And this battle isn‘t over.  But the Americans have taken a giant

step forward for social justice. 

In 15 months, President Barack Obama has done more the middle class than

Reagan, Bush 41, Bush 43, all combined.  Change we can believe in is here. 

And, you know, having done town hall meetings all over the country, and

having people have tears coming down their cheeks, I want you to know—

and you folks, you know who you are, you know how many hands our team has

shaken out on the road and how many voices we‘ve listened to, and how we

have come face to face.  I want you to know, last night, when I had the

honor to broadcast with David Shuster here on MSNBC, it was the highlight

of my career.  And I thought a lot about you folks all night long. 

We are moving in the correct direction.  We are going to make sure that

people get health insurance so they don‘t die in this country.  We‘re more

about saving lives than we are about profit. 

Get your cell phones out.  I want to know what you think about this


Tonight‘s text survey is: Did passage of the health care reform renew your

faith in President Obama‘s leadership?  Text “A” for yes and “B” for no to

622639.  I‘ll bring you the rust results later on in the show. 

Now, the reason we had this text question tonight is because I remember the

campaign.  Remember across the street they were saying—over there on the

righty network they were saying, oh, he hasn‘t done anything, he doesn‘t

have any legislative accomplishments. 

What are you guys saying over there now?  It‘s the biggest thing in 50


But here‘s what I‘m really upset about.  In the office today—in the

office we have this conversation about, OK, what‘s our text poll going to

be tonight?  And I lost out on this one. 

I was voted down in the office.  I wanted to know, what day do you think

Rush Limbaugh is going to be going to Costa Rica?  Is it going to be text

“A” for Monday, text “B” for Tuesday? 

It‘s fun to get the victory, isn‘t it?

Joining me now is South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn, the majority whip

in the House. 

OK, Congressman.  I‘ll ask you.  What day do you think Limbaugh should be

going to Costa Rica? 


SCHULTZ:  Jim, congratulations.  Take a victory lap tonight. 

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC), MAJORITY WHIP:  Well, thank you so much for

having me.  And thank you so much for all the help you gave in helping us

educate the American people as to what it was we were trying to do. 

I think over the next couple of weeks people are going to look in on this

thing and they are going to be amazed as to how in touch with middle

America this legislation is.  It‘s kind of amazing to me the letters I‘m

getting today. 

Now, some I wouldn‘t talk about on this show.  But I‘m hearing from more

people now who want to know, when can I sign up for this thing?  When are

you going to get this out to us in the public? 

For the first time, I know now that my child can come on to my insurance

policy.  For the first time, I can keep my child who wants to go to a

graduate school on my policy. 

These things are going to resonate with the American people in a way that

nothing has in a long, long time.  And those people who are—got all this

gloom and doom about what‘s going to happen to Democrats in November,

you‘re going to be hear a different tune very soon. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman Clyburn, you were one of the first to come out and

support Barack Obama on the campaign trail, and you took a lot of heat for

it because there were a lot of questions about his experience and a lot of

people didn‘t know him.  In fact, when he jumped into the race, only 18

percent of African-Americans knew who Barack Obama was.  But you were out

there early with him. 

How do you feel about it tonight? 

CLYBURN:  Well, I think President Obama has demonstrated in the last few

weeks exactly what people voted for.  Now, people had some problems early

on because during the campaign, people forget that all those economic

problems came about in the waning days of the campaign.

President Obama was talking about reforming our health care system.  He was

talking about how he was going to expand the economic opportunities in this

country.  Nobody was talking about having to rescue an economy from a cliff

that it seemed to be headed toward.

And so, he did first things first.  And now that we‘ve got things

stabilized, and in some areas beginning to grown again, President Obama is

now concentrating on things like health care.  And I want to tell you,

education as well.

I think a lot of people did not focus on the fact that in this

reconciliation bill that we passed with 220 votes last night—

SCHULTZ:  Student loans.

CLYBURN:  -- is a big uptick in Pell Grants in for students who would like

to go to post—secondary education.  An uptick for historical-backed (ph)

colleges and universities.  Over $2 billion for them—minority-serving

institutions, Hispanic-serving institutions, school construction.  All this

is in this reconciliation bill as well.

And I think when people see what we did last night, they are going to be

very, very happy with the fact that President Obama has now got the country

moving fast in a new direction.

SCHULTZ:  Well, Congressman, he didn‘t do it without you and Nancy Pelosi

and Steny Hoyer over in the House.  You‘re the whip.  You counted the

votes.  You got people in line.  You explained it to them.

And you deserve a great deal of credit.  And I know it means a lot to you. 

And I took to heart your comment last night here at the press conference

that we covered here live when you said that you have enjoyed every minute

of it. 

CLYBURN:  Absolutely. 

SCHULTZ:  And you‘ve got to enjoy the run.  And you‘ve definitely done


Congratulations, Congressman.  Thank you.

CLYBURN:  Well, thank you so much.  Thank you. 

SCHULTZ:  Now let‘s go to former Vermont governor and former DNC chair

Howard Dean. 

Governor Dean, good to have you with us tonight. 


Congratulations.  You worked pretty hard for this one yourself. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, just a vehicle for the people.  And it‘s been fun to be a

part of what I believe is a door, an opening for Americans, that their

lives are going to be a lot better. 

I know this isn‘t what you wanted.  We wanted more.  You wanted more.  But

there are some great things in this bill. 

And what should be the next step for the progressive movement in moving

forward on health care reform?  What do you think?

DEAN:  Well, I think the first thing is we‘ve got to let this thing settle

out and move on to jobs.  There‘s a lot of stuff going on in foreign

affairs, Afghanistan.  There‘s plenty to do on the president‘s plate. 

Climate change is a huge problem that nothing is—the House passed a

bill.  The Senate hasn‘t done anything on it yet.  So there‘s a lot to be


This bill needs some time.  There‘s—over the next six months, a lot of

very good things are going to happen for the American people—elimination

of pre-existing conditions, particularly kids, taxi drivers, cleaning

women, people like that, who don‘t have health care benefits are going to

be able to afford them again.  A lot of Americans who work hard are going

to able to get health care. 

But there are some problems.  The costs aren‘t controlled.  Older people

are subjected to paying three times as much as younger people are. 

So, we‘ve opened the door.  As you said, this is a historic night and this

is an enormous victory for Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.  A

huge victory for this president. 

This president really has come into his own as president of the United

States now.  And Americans love a winner.  And he is a winner tonight. 

But this is just the beginning.  I don‘t believe this is really health care

reform.  This is the opening so health care reform is now just not possible

but also a necessity. 

SCHULTZ:  Governor Dean, what are the midterms going to look like?  I know

six, eight months is an eternity in politics.  But this does set the table

for the Democrats to run on change and to say we did what we said we were

going to do.  Didn‘t get everything we want, and I think the American

people understand how many olive branches were coming out of the White

House to try to get the Republicans on board.  But they were very up front

about obstruction all along. 

What does this mean for the midterms?

DEAN:  Well, this is good for the midterms from the Democratic point of

view.  You know, people love a strong president.  And this is now a strong

president with a big win under his belt.  That‘s going to help all the

Democrats across the board. 

We‘re still going to lose some seats, but I think it‘s much less likely

that we‘d lose our majority in either house at this point. 

SCHULTZ:  Governor Dean, great to have you with us tonight.  I appreciate

your time.  Congratulations for all you did. 

And you were the one that stepped forward with a 50-state strategy.  And I

don‘t think any progressive in this country will ever forget that. 

Thanks so much. 

DEAN:  Thanks, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  Coming up, a former Bush speechwriter says that President Obama‘s

win on health care will mean Waterloo for the Republicans.  David Frum

joins me in just a moment. 

Plus, Tiger Woods told the Golf Channel his addiction is horrific and he‘s

afraid of how fans are going to react to him when he hits the course at the

Masters.  Stephen A. Smith will join me for that in the “Playbook.” 

And “Caribou Barbie” spewed another dandy out there about President Obama‘s

inexperience.  That puts her in the zone.

Stick around.  You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.


SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

From the beginning of the health care battle the primary objective of most

Republicans was to see President Obama fail.  Senator Jim DeMint was one of

the first to admit it when he said that stopping reform would be Obama‘s


Last night, the GOP lost their fight for failure.  And a lot of Republicans

are consoling themselves by predicting widespread Democratic defeat in


Former Bush speechwriter David Frum had a different point of view.  He

wrote, “Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing

legislative defeat since the 1960s.  Today‘s defeat for free-market

economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative

entertainment industry.  Their listeners and viewers will now be even more

enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except

the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio.”

“For them, it‘s mission accomplished.  For the cause they purport to

represent, it‘s Waterloo all right: ours.”

Well, Mr. Frum, I appreciate your time tonight.  I guess the question—


SCHULTZ:  -- at this hour based on your opinion is, how do they rethink

this?  How do they recover? 

FRUM:  Well, I hope we do some rethinking.  I need to make clear at the

start, if I had been in the House of Representatives on Sunday, I would

have voted nay.  But I don‘t know why we reached this point where we bet

everything on all the marbles trying to repeat 1994 against a president

this time not with 42 percent of the vote, but with 53 percent of the vote. 

Now, from here there‘s talk that Republicans are going to go after repeal. 

That is completely unrealistic. 

Michele Bachmann has a piece of legislation that says the act is repealed. 

And she‘s going to show that to the larger number of Republicans that will

be there after November.  And they‘ll say, OK, yes, all for that, except

for the part about the 35 percent tax credit for small business.  We like

that.  So that will be a line out. 

Then somebody will say, yes, there‘s kids with the preconditions.  We can‘t

take that out.  And pretty soon you‘ve got a repeal bill that is 2,700

pages long.  And the president is not going it sign it anyway. 

We need to be focused on reforming this bill, and we also need to be

focused on trying to find more winnable fights.  And on issues where

compromise is possible, as it was on this one, to seek compromise. 

Make—if it‘s true that Nancy Pelosi didn‘t want to compromise, make her

the divider.  Don‘t be the divider yourself.  Make her the obstructionist. 

Don‘t be the obstructionist yourself. 

SCHULTZ:  Who do you see in the Republican Party possibly changing their

way of thinking? 

FRUM:  Look, I think when you watched that Blair House summit, it was clear

-- Lamar Alexander was somebody who wanted to—who was serious about

these issues, who took seriously the underlying concern.  I mean, these are

legislators.  They hear from their constituents.  They encounter actual


They would have liked to be able to deliver some kind of solutions, but

they‘re trapped.  They‘re trapped because we have revved up the voter base

that if you are somebody who is serious about health care, like Utah

Senator Robert Bennett, he‘s going to be primaried.  He‘s in a lot of

danger because his people, his voters have been convinced that this is the

(INAUDIBLE).  They‘re going to murder grandma. 

How do you do business with people who want to murder your grandma?  You

can‘t, obviously. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, moving forward, what are the Republicans going to run on? 

I mean, just run on repeal?  Aren‘t they going to have to come up with,

this is what we would do and this is how we could do it, to gain people? 

Are they just going to play on the anger and the fear? 

And you mentioned the right-wing talkers and the television talkers over on

the conservative side.  It is great entertainment for them, for their base,

because they just get people all riled up and angry.  But sooner or later

you have got to get to the detail of what you want to do and where you want

to take the country. 

FRUM:  And you have to remember, also, elections are won by the more

hopeful, more optimistic, more positive and more unifying person.  That‘s

the person you want to be, because that‘s the kind of person Americans want

to be governed by. 

They don‘t want to be governed by anger.  We don‘t elect angry people. 

Ronald Reagan wasn‘t angry.  And George Bush in 2000 wasn‘t angry either. 

And that‘s how he eked it out. 

This—and it is that you can‘t offer people the false promise—it‘s not

even a promise of repeal, because I think as we get close, just the

complete unworkability of that idea is going to reveal itself.  And it‘s

going to collapse. 

SCHULTZ:  And David, obviously you‘re a conservative, but can you

appreciate the campaign ammunition that President Obama is now going to be

equipped with going out on the campaign trail?  He can sell, he‘s a

tremendous talent, people gravitate to him. 

Did the job just get tougher for Republicans based on talent alone? 

FRUM:  Well, as you would expect with any piece of legislation, this is

front-loaded with goodies that are aimed at key Republican constituents. 

There are a lot of goodies for people over 65.  There are a lot of goodies

for small business.  And they go into effect right away. 

Now, I opposed this bill because it means more taxes, more debt.  And where

are the cost controls?  But those problems materialize later. 

Everything that is wrong with this bill materializes late.  The things that

materialize early a lot of people are going to like, and a lot of key

Republican constituencies are going to like. 

SCHULTZ:  David, thanks so much for joining us tonight.  Appreciate it. 

FRUM:  Thank you for your time.

SCHULTZ:  Enjoyed your take.

David Frum, you can find him at FrumForum.com. 

I found the whole thing interesting last night in our coverage.  It was

very clear that the Republicans do not believe the CBO score and the

Democrats do.  And I‘ll tell you, if the CBO, if the Congressional Budget

Office is off a trillion dollars, we really are screwed up. 

Coming up, the woman who had to write “tax cut” on her own hand thinks

President Obama is over his head?  OK. 

Hey, Sarah, you‘re going into the zone.

Stay with us. 


SCHULTZ:  And another edition of “Psycho Talk” tonight. 

Tea Party princess Sarah Palin joined her colleagues on the right-wing

network on Friday in a last-ditch attempt to smear health care reform.  But

Palin must have misplaced the latest Republican talking points.  She had to

fall back on her old attacks from the 2008 campaign. 


SARAH PALIN ®, FMR. ALASKAN GOVERNOR:  It‘s an absolute broken promise of

President Obama‘s that there would be an attempt, anyway, at

bipartisanship.  It really reflects a lack of experience of President

Obama.  So, to jump into this huge, hugely important, responsible position

as president of the United States without the experience to know how to

work across party lines and to know how to administer and to manage a team

to get policy through that makes sense, that‘s supported by the people,

it‘s a bit over his head, if you will. 


SCHULTZ:  Wow.  The woman who couldn‘t stick it out for a single term as

governor of Alaska is trying to say that President Obama is in over his


Just for fun, let‘s do a little comparison of the two tonight. 

Since President Obama took office, well, he has started to withdraw our

troops from Iraq.  Sarah Palin withdrew from her job. 

President Obama signed a $787 billion stimulus package that is helping

Americans all over the country recover from the recession.  Sarah Palin

stimulated her own personal bank account writing a book and charging

$100,000 to talk to Tea Partiers. 

And President Obama is about to sign historic health care legislation. 

Sarah Palin, she signed with Fox. 

Palin has no place criticizing President Obama for lack of experience.  And

her claim that Obama doesn‘t know how to be bipartisan is absolutely bogus

and certainly not the record. President Obama spent the last year trying to

reach across the aisle on health care.  It‘s not Obama‘s fault the

obstructionist Republicans kept slapping his hand away.  Last night‘s vote

proves that President Obama has what it takes to deliver the results. 

So just remember, a half-term governor from where?  Saying that

President Obama is in over his head?  That‘s championship Psycho Talk.

Coming up, small businesses just got a major shot in the arm.  The

health care bill might be the key to our economic recovery.  House Help

Committee Chairman George Miller of California will join us with the good

news in just a moment. 

Plus, Tiger‘s talking.  He‘s letting all the skeletons out of the

closet before the Masters.  I‘ll tell you how he connects his father‘s

death to his transgressions.  Stephen A. Smith tees it up in the playbook. 

You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Stay with us.


SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  Thanks for watching tonight. 

Health care reform is good for the country, but it is especially good, and

this story has not been told enough, for small businesses.  The thing that

gets me, the Republicans know this.  Small businesses are going to get a

tax credit worth 35 percent of their health care costs.  It‘s going to jump

to 50 percent in the tax credit in two years.  This is right out of their


The insurance exchange will provide more bargaining power.  They‘ll

be able to purchase better coverage at a, buzz phrase, lower cost.  The

Small Business Majority Group predicts coverage costs could drop by as much

as 30 percent.  This will encourage more Americans to take a risk—take a

risk and start a business.  Small businesses will be able to compete for

the best employees if they can offer a better benefit package. 

For more, let me bring in one of the architects of this reform bill. 

Joining me now is Congressman George Miller, chairman of the House

Education and Labor Committee.  Congressman, this—I figured out this

much.  This bill has got so much in it.  Where do you start telling the

good stories? 

I run a small business.  My sons run a concrete business.  I feel so

compelled to put up on our screen tomorrow night exactly what‘s in it for a

company with less than 25 employees.  Go ahead.  This is reaching across

the aisle, isn‘t it? 


It‘s reaching across the aisle.  It was one of the main concerns of the

Obama administration, of the Senate and the House Democrats when we did

this bill.  We wanted to make health care affordable to those small

business-people that wanted to offer it for their employees or are offering

it now and telling us that they can‘t afford to keep that insurance for

their employees. 

The tax credit is immediate.  As you pointed out, in two years it

grows up to 50 percent.  This is what people have been saying we should

offer to small businesses for many years and now it‘s available to them. 

so it‘s critical.  When you talk to small business-people in our

constituencies, they say to us, well, I would keep my—I would keep the

insurance or I would offer insurance, or that‘s very interesting, I would

think about that.  So they‘re very encouraged by this. 

The fact is Republicans decided, rather than be constructive, rather

than get involved in this process, they would lie about this bill, they

would tell mistruths about this bill, they would distort the bill, they

would whip up crowds to spread all this misinformation about the

legislation.  But when people focus on it now, they see that this benefits

their families, their businesses, their employment, and their


SCHULTZ:  You know, that‘s what‘s so disingenuous about their whole

complaint about this bill, is Republicans know exactly what this is. 

People that have to meet payroll, people that want to get insurance to

their employees, people that want to keep employees, so they don‘t go

elsewhere and get the best employees you can and really compete, this has

got all kinds of incentives.  You know, this and the jobs bill you guys

have passed—I‘ve never seen an administration in less than 18 months do

as much for jobs as this administration has done. 

MILLER:  That‘s it.  And not only that, this legislation will create

jobs.  We will create four million jobs over the next decade because of the

growth in the health care field and the life science fields and in the

community health care facilities fields.  So this is a tremendous


But also think of this for that small business-person: even if they

don‘t offer insurance, they will know that their employees are covered, so

that their employees won‘t be missing work because they couldn‘t get health

care and now they have an pneumonia instead of a cold.  These kind of

things are tradeoffs that are so valuable when trying to keep a workforce

together.  They won‘t be running of worrying about whether or not their

child has insurance or won‘t have insurance.  They‘ll be covered and

they‘ll always be covered. 

So this lifts a lot of burden off small businesses. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman, great work.  Great to have you with us. 

Appreciate your time.

MILLER:  Thank you. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman George Miller from San Francisco tonight here

on THE ED SHOW.  Let‘s talk about the politics of this.  Let‘s go to

Democratic strategist Steve McMahon, because the Republicans have been

squawking all day about how they want to repeal this.  How do you run a

campaign on you want to repeal stuff?  What do you think, Steve? 


that‘s the campaign they run, because they‘re going to then be explaining

to the American people why it‘s a good idea to put the preexisting

condition situation back where it was.  They‘re going to have to explain to

people why it‘s a good idea to take away these tax credits for small

business that will create jobs.  There -- 70 percent or 75 or 80 percent

even of what‘s in this bill is very, very popular with 80 percent of the

electorate, and with a lot of republicans.  And when they try to explain

what it would mean to repeal this bill, I think it will be their Waterloo. 

SCHULTZ:  OK, now, the GOP and the Tea Partiers, what‘s the

relationship moving forward here?  It seems that they might come together

now that this legislation has been passed and it might unite them.  Or am I

wrong on that? 

MCMAHON:  I think the Tea Partiers have just about as many qualms

with GOPers as they have with Democrats.  In fact, I think what you might

see is Tea Party activists in GOP primaries, which is going to create a

whole other great sporting event for those of us who are Democrats who like

to watch Republicans tear each other up.  The Tea Partiers are going to get

in there against incumbents who they think have spent too much money—and

they have—and they‘re going to run the Tea Party movement against the

conservative Republican movement, and it‘s going to be great sport to


SCHULTZ:  How much money do you think will be spent in this midterm? 

Will it break a record as opposed to other midterms, total dollars? 

MCMAHON:  I think what you have on both sides, frankly, right now,

is a very, very energized base.  Democrats now feel like the Obama

administration has delivered on a very, very big promise and something that

eluded presidents for 60 years.  The Republicans are as angry as the

Democrats are happy right now.  I think you‘re going to see that with small

dollar fund-raising and with huge amounts of money spent in campaigns. 

You mentioned earlier to Governor Dean, who‘s one of my favorite

people in politics, thank god he had a 50-state strategy, because

Democratic activists in all 50 states are going to be supporting

candidacies now for Democrats running for reelection in ways that they

haven‘t in the past.  That‘s going to be a good thing for those candidates. 

SCHULTZ:  Isn‘t hat the truth?  Steve McMahon, great to have you

with us tonight.  Thanks so much.

Now I want to get a rapid fire response from our panel on these

three stories.  Republican Congressman from Texas is trying to walk back

his “baby killer” comment.  He claims it wasn‘t directed at Democrat Bart


Health care reform passed Congress, but could face a court fight

from at least 12 states angry about the insurance mandate. 

And a progressive group launches a major TV advertising campaign

against psycho talker Congresswoman Michele Bachmann.  Joining us tonight,

political analyst Jennifer Donahue is with us, and Republican strategist

Ron Christie. 

Ron, we‘ll start with you tonight.  First of all, how many apologies

have we seen come from Republicans this year?  No, that‘s not my question. 

My question is—I have to have fun with this, Ron. 


SCHULTZ:  Is he genuine in his apology saying, well, he was just

saying “baby killer,” he wasn‘t directing it at the congressman. 

CHRISTIE:  Well, I don‘t think that type of language is proper on

the floor of the House of Representatives.  I don‘t think that Alan

Grayson, a Democrat from Florida, some of the hateful things he‘s said, is

appropriate.  I don‘t think Republicans should do it.  I think Republicans

and Democrats need to recognize that that is the people‘s House and that

that level of incivility is uncalled for.  I don‘t like that in politics. 

SCHULTZ:  What do you think, Jennifer? 


is putting it nicely for the Republicans.  I think it‘s a sign of absolute

desperation.  I think it‘s a fight to stay relevant.  I think the apology

is because he went too far, didn‘t realize it because he‘s caught up in a

whirlwind.  There‘s a whip-saw going on.  Republicans can‘t see straight,

they‘re so angry.  Their entire world and the entire political landscape

has changed 100 percent in the last week.  They don‘t know how to deal with

it yet. 

CHRISTIE:  With all due respect—

SCHULTZ:  Next subject.  Ron, you have a legal back ground.  What do

you make of these attorney generals across the country that now want to

challenge this, saying that, you know, it constitutionally just doesn‘t

stand up, the bill that they signed last night. 

CHRISTIE:  Very concerned about it, Ed.  First, let me say, the

Republicans actually do have a strategy.  We‘re not spinning around.  I‘m

tired of this talk about the Beltway and I‘m tired of Democrats always

saying, oh, it‘s the Republicans this. 

Let‘s focus on the good things for the country.  One of the bad

things that happened yesterday is your question, Ed.  There are 37 states

around this country that have said, we should leave it to the Tenth

Amendment.  We should believe that those powers not specifically delineated

in the Constitution—we should allow that power and those abilities to

the state.  I think it has never, ever been attempted by a Congress,

Democrat or Republican, to say that an American has to purchase a

particular good and service.  That has never happened. 

SCHULTZ:  You think they withstand the legal test here? 

CHRISTIE:  I do.  I read the Constitution again this afternoon.  I

don‘t see anywhere in the Constitution that this government and our

founders specifically called on Americans to particularly buy a gooder


SCHULTZ:  Jennifer, is this whining politics or is this going to

play in a lot of places?  What do you think?

DONAHUE:  I think actually here is where, Ron, I agree that there‘s

a point that is going to elongate this debate, more than the repeal

process, more than what‘s going to happen—excuse me, my eyes are

watering with these camera lights.  But more than what we‘re going to see

with repeal and parliamentary maneuvers, we‘re going to see states taking a

firm ground, political activists trying to get this repealed, the same way

that they‘ve had some success with Roe v. Wade on a state by state level. 

SCHULTZ:  Ron, quickly, the candidates are going to be facing a

barrage of ads.  Michele Bachmann is being targeted early on.  Is this the

tip of the iceberg? 

CHRISTIE:  I think it‘s the tip of the iceberg.  But I think it‘s

the tip of the iceberg against conservative Americans around this country

who are very concerned about the big size of government.  They‘re not going

to go after Republicans.  A hundred thousand dollars against Congresswoman

Bachmann is nothing.  I think the Democrats are the ones—a lot of them

are going to get thrown out of office due to their vote last night. 

SCHULTZ:  Jennifer, don‘t feel bad about those tears coming down

your cheeks.  It‘s water from the eyes, the lights.  I know about it.  We

won‘t mistake you for a Republican today after the big bill was signed. 

DONAHUE:  That‘s right.  I could be mistaken for a Republican.  I‘m

actually an independent.  So I should be crying out of one eye and not out

of the other. 

SCHULTZ:  Go ahead, make the comment on it. 

DONAHUE:  Just quickly, I think that Democrats are trying to show

they can fight back.  The Republicans aren‘t the only well-funded ones, and

if they‘re going to start a campaign about the health care bill, that

Democrats are going to fight back and do it as well. 

SCHULTZ:  All right. 

CHRISTIE:  Wait until November, guys.  It‘s going to be a game


SCHULTZ:  You‘ll be on a lot before then, Ron. 

DONAHUE:  It would be either way, Ron.  It‘s a midterm election. 

SCHULTZ:  Jennifer Donahue, Ron Christie, always a pleasure. 

Coming up, President Obama sure knows how to keep his cool.  As

Congress brought the health care bill down to the wire, he‘s back there

checking his NCAA brackets.  Stephen A. Smith is here to talk about March

Madness, the Masters.  So much more coming up in the playbook.  Stay with



SCHULTZ:  In my playbook tonight, Tiger Woods took questions for the

first time since the world found out that he‘s had multiple extra-marital

affairs.  Before his return to the golf course at Augusta next month, Tiger

try to explain how his personal life got so far off track. 


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  How did things get so out of control? 

TIGER WOODS, GOLFER:  Going against your core values, losing sight

of them.  I quit meditating.  I quit being a Buddhist.  And my life changed

upside down.  I felt I was entitled, which I never had felt before. 

And consequently I hurt so many people.  I tried to stop and I

couldn‘t stop.  And it was just—it was horrific, to stare at yourself

and look at the person you‘ve become.  You become disgusted. 


SCHULTZ:  Meanwhile, after a brief stint working for Tiger Woods,

former Bush Secretary Ari Fleischer has cut and run.  Apparently, Fleischer

hit the bricks because he thought he was becoming too much a part of the


Joining me now, Stephen A. Smith, nationally syndicated radio talk

show host, and columnist for the “Philadelphia Enquirer.”

Stephen A., why two five-minute interviews?  What‘s the mission



sure you sort of derail some of that momentum coming your way when you‘re

about to take the golf course in a couple of weeks.  That‘s number one. 

Number two, more importantly, with those text messages that were

revealed by the former prostitute or what have you, Joslyn (ph), the fact

is that you know a lot of stuff came out.  That‘s going to invoke a lot of

provoke a lot of questions.  You try to derail it as best as you

possibly can, make sure you are open to any questions.  At the same time,

you limited it to five minutes so it couldn‘t be so invasive. 

SCHULTZ:  What do you make of Tiger‘s comment about he‘s a little

apprehensive about how the fans are going to treat him? 

SMITH:  I think that‘s authentic, because he‘s got to be

apprehensive about it, because he doesn‘t know the reaction that he‘s going

to get.  There‘s two sides.  There are people out there who just want to

see him play golf because we all know that he‘s the greatest golfer in the

world.  There are others that find him absolutely repugnant and

reprehensible, and want no part of him. 

So he knows he‘s going to, in all likelihood, experience that, to

some degree, even though he‘s somewhat shielded.  Because, again, we‘re

talking about the Masters here, who are masters at shielding you from that

level of cynicism and skepticism. 

SCHULTZ:  Lot of people wondering if he‘s going to win the Masters. 

I‘ll be surprised if he makes the cut. 

SMITH:  He‘ll make the cut.  He‘s the best in the world.  He‘ll make

the cut.

SCHULTZ:  Switching sports now.  I‘ll tell you who‘s making the cut,

from Mayville, North Dakota, formally of the University of North Dakota,

head coach at Northern Iowa, the giant killer of the tournament, Northern

Iowa.  Ben Jacobson‘s team takes down Kansas

SMITH:  I was stunned.  I interviewed him this morning on my show on

Fox Sports Radio.  It was an absolutely sensational performance by the

entire team.  They played some defense.  They got big-time perimeter play

from their guards.  They controlled the tempo.  Kansas only had one lead

throughout the game.  I think, more importantly, Kansas walked in there

with a level of arrogance. 

As Coach Bill Self (ph) said, it‘s rare that you get the overall

number one seed in the NCAA tournament.  It‘s an opportunity you absolutely

must capitalize on.  They didn‘t do so.  Northern Iowa is moving on. 

SCHULTZ:  Stephen A., great to have you with us.

SMITH:  All right.  Take care.

SCHULTZ:  Coming up, the Tea Party reared its ugly, racist head this

weekend.  It might have galvanized Democratic unity.  Maryland Congressman

Elijah Cummings will put it all together and in perspective with us next

here on THE ED SHOW.  Stay with us.


SCHULTZ:  Finally tonight on THE ED SHOW, we‘re in the end zone for

health care.  Here‘s how the final steps of the process will play out:

tomorrow morning, President Obama will sign the Senate health care reform

bill into law.  As soon as that happens, Senate Democrats can move to pass

the fixes to the bill through reconciliation.  The Republicans are going to

do whatever they can to obstruct.  Senate Democrats think they could pass

the fixes by the end of this week. 

For more let me bring in Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings. 

Congressman, good to have you with us. 

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND:  Always a pleasure. 

SCHULTZ:  You bet, sir.  Thank you.  The leap of faith by the House,

I guess you could say, has been taken.  How do you feel about where the

Senate stands right now? 

CUMMINGS:  I think we‘ll be fine with the Senate.  When Harry Reid

came over on Saturday and made it clear that he had a majority of the

Senate that would vote for the fixes, we were fine.  The up and down vote,

I‘m very—I trust him.  I trust the Senate that they‘ll do the right

thing.  I don‘t think Leader Reid would have come over and made a statement

to our entire Democratic caucus if such were not the case.  He said he had

the signatures, and I believe him. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman, did you see the letter?  Do you know what was

in the letter?  I mean, there‘s a lot of devil in the detail here about,

you know, when it comes to fixing this bill and doing the reconciliation

fixes on this.  Are you comfortable with the language in the letter? 

CUMMINGS:  I did see a letter that was addressed to us in the House

that laid out all the things the Senate was willing to do.  It was from

Leader Reid.  I was very pleased. 


CUMMINGS:  Ed, let me say this, that you know, I know that—I‘ve

been listening to you over the last few minutes.  I know there are a lot of

efforts on the part of the Republicans to stop this.  But you know what? 

They‘re going to have to go out there and tell kids that may have chronic

conditions that we want to take away something that the Congress has given

you.  They have to say to people, we‘re going to take away this ban on

preexisting conditions. 

I think—you know, at some point, I think the American people are

going to say, what is this all about?  Why aren‘t you standing up for me? 

Why aren‘t you helping me to make my family safe and provide them with the

care they need? 

SCHULTZ:  It‘s a tough campaign to run saying you‘re going to take

stuff away from people. 

CUMMINGS:  That‘s exactly right. 

SCHULTZ:  I find it amazing that the Republicans, in our coverage

yesterday, all of them said people they don‘t believe the CBO and the

Democrats do. 

CUMMINGS:  You know, our Republican friends have a tendency—if

the CBO says what they want them to say, they‘re happy.  If they don‘t

they‘re unhappy.  The fact is we‘re going to get this done.  I‘m going to

be at the White House, along with many of my colleagues, and watch the

president make history. 

I‘m telling you, Ed, we as Democrats—we‘re going to have to be on

the offense.  We‘ve got to let folks know exactly what this bill is all

about and how many benefits it has, not only for folks, for them, but for a

generations yet unborn. 

SCHULTZ:  Finally, congressman, you have seen a lot in your lifetime

and been through a lot.  Did the antics outside the Capitol yesterday help

galvanize Democrats and—go ahead. 

CUMMINGS:  No doubt about it.  No doubt about it.  I think when you

have an icon like John Lewis being called the “N” word and others—

another one of my colleagues, Emanuel Cleaver, being spat upon—those

kind of things make people more emboldened to do the right thing.  The main

thing, too, it does is it makes us all determined not to be distracted. 

That‘s what the opposition wants.  We have to make sure we remember who

we‘re fighting for and not necessarily who we‘re fighting against. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman Elijah Cummings, always great to have you with

us.  Appreciate your conversation. 

CUMMINGS:  My pleasure, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  Tonight, in our text survey, I asked did passage of the

health care reform renew your faith in President Obama‘s leadership?  We

had more than 17,000 respond; 91 percent of you said yes; nine percent of

you said no. 

That‘s THE ED SHOW.  I‘m Ed Schultz.  We‘re back tomorrow night. 

Coming up next, “HARDBALL” with Chuck Todd.  It starts right here on the

place for politics, MSNBC.




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