MR. GREGORY:
OK, a final salvo there. Joining us now with a view from the other side we turn to the man who is in charge of getting
Barack Obama
elected president, his
2008
campaign manager
and author of the newly-updated
paperback version of his book, "The Audacity to Win:
How
Obama Won
and
How We Can Beat
the
Party
of
Limbaugh
,
Beck
, and
Palin
."
David Plouffe
, welcome back to
MEET THE PRESS
.
MR. DAVID PLOUFFE:
Good
to be with you
,
David
.
MR. GREGORY:
A lot to get to. I want to start on the economy and domestic affairs, and we'll touch on the wars, as I did with Senator
Graham
, just a minute. I want to start with the reality, and that is that this president and his
party
are running on an economic record. And here is that
record in a nutshell, and it's not a good one:
9.6 percent unemployment rate, 14.9 million unemployed, 6.2 million of which are long-term unemployed beyond 27 weeks, an estimated three million property foreclosures this year. We cannot forget the depth of the housing crisis. After 19 months in office,
President Obama
is accountable for this record, is he not?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Sure he is. We're less than 60 days out from
election
and
elections
are about choices. So let's remember where we were. The
Republican Party
that wants to gain back
control
, their policies contributed to the worst
economic crisis
this
country
's seen since the
Great Depression
. If they had their way, we might have headed to a depression, opposing the
Recovery Act
. So no one's satisfied with where we are. The question is, are we making progress? We had 22 straight months in this
country
of
private sector
job loss. We've had eight straight months of
private sector
job gain. Not as high as anyone would like, but we're on the right path here. And so the question for the
American people
is, the Republican experiment's a very recent one -- fiscal irresponsibility, really, an unprecedented assault on the middle-class and
small businesses
. The same exact policies -- and by the way, the guy who's in charge of the Republican campaign committee was on your show about six weeks ago and said if they won back the majority what they were going to pursue were the same policies they had done previously, which led to this economic calamity.
MR. GREGORY:
But isn't it striking after 19 months, rather than being able to run on a record, when this president's had some big swings legislatively at the economy, that you are left basically saying, "Well, you know, we, we may not have done the job, but the other guys are really worse."
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, no one's saying we're not doing the job. We're very proud of what we've done, which is, this hole was so deep, it's going to -- as the president said at his inaugural address, it's going to take some time to dig out. But we're on the right path here:
economic policies
aimed squarely at the
middle class
and
small businesses
; creating a new
energy
sector; the healthcare law which,
over time
, I think is going to play a
big impact
on
economic growth
. So, no, we're proud to talk about what we've done.
MR. GREGORY:
But 82 percent, but 82 percent of Americans polled believe that the
country
's still in recession.
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, people are struggling. No one's suggesting otherwise. But the question is...
MR. GREGORY:
Yeah. So they don't believe what you say, which is that we're on the right path.
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, you're -- when people are struggling, they don't have a job, their family member doesn't have a job, they haven't got a raise, they're right to be frustrated. The question we have to put in front of people in these next two months is, this is a choice. And the Republican ideas were soundly rejected at the ballot box the last two years, more importantly were soundly rejected by the
American people
. They're offering nothing new, the same old policies that led this
country
this close -- Senator
Graham
was talking about, you know, the right ditch, the left ditch, they drove us into the ditch. And if we give the keys back to the people who did this, it would be like giving
Herbert Hoover
the keys in the mid-
1930s
.
MR. GREGORY:
The, the summation --
Time magazine
has a summation of sort of the depth of the political peril for the president and the
Democrats
. I'll put it up on the screen. "With
midterm elections
just nine weeks off, instead of generational transformation some
Democrats
predicted after
2008
, the president's
party
teeters on the brink of a broad setback in November, including the possible loss of both houses of
Congress
. By a 10-point margin, people say they will vote for
Republicans
over
Democrats
in
Congress
, the largest such gap ever recorded by
Gallup
." How did it get so bad?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, first of all, when you have a tough economy and you're in power, you're going to have a tough political
environment
. Secondly, we won so many
elections
in
2006
and
2008
. Even in a neutral electoral
environment
, it was clear we were going to give some of that back. So, over the next two months, what we really have to do is two things. One,
Republicans
are very enthusiastic about voting. We have to get more
Democrats
enthused about voting. I think laying out the stakes of this
election
, the real choice, that they're not just going to bring bad ideas, they're going to roll back all that the president and his
party
's accomplished. And secondly, for those
undecided voters
out there, make them understand this is not the new
Republican Party
. It's the same old ideas, the same old adherence to the
special interests
. You know,
Speak Boehner
was talking about all the reforms he's going to bring. I mean, give me a break. These are the -- this is the
party
that tried to change the rules to allow the majority leader to still serve if he was indicted.
John Boehner
, who would be the speaker of the
House
, years ago was handing out checks from tobacco companies on the
House
floor and is now up on
Wall Street
saying, "Give
us money
because we're protecting you by opposing things like financial
reform
." So, so the movie was a nightmare for
America
, it's a recent experiment, and we have to make sure everybody out there who's undecided and, just as importantly, those
Democrats
who aren't any threat to vote for a Republican but who are saying, "I'm sure if I'm going to vote," we have to go talk to them and make sure they understand the stakes here.
MR. GREGORY:
One of the things you said back in January of
2009
is that bipartisanship was so important. And this is what you told
The Washington Post
at the time. "One thing I'm sure of, there's not going to be a Democratic solution to the economy or a Democratic healthcare plan or a Democratic
energy
plan. It's got to be an
American plan
and effort, and if that happens, I think we can make progress." The reality is they have all been Democratic plans. You have not had bipartisanship, you have lost tremendous ground with 60 percent disapproval among independent voters. Isn't that problem you, you warned of?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, first one, bipartisanship, actually, you know, we did get some Republican support for things like the
Recovery Act
, for financial
reform
, on healthcare, is right. But the votes might have all been Democratic, but the truth is there were so many Republican ideas in there. And what the -- and this is another argument for the
election
.
The Republicans
' opposition with the president and a lot of our
party
has tried to do is less grounded in principle than it is in politics. This
country
's in -- got deep challenges, but opportunities, too. And rather than participate in trying to move this
country
forward, the
Republicans
, in a very crave and crass way, are playing short-term politics. And listen, we're going to have a tough
election
this November. I think it can be better than people think, but I think the long-term damage the
Republican Party
is doing to themself is profound.
MR. GREGORY:
Well, and I want to get to the
Republicans
in just a minute, but let me pin you down on that point. Is Democratic
control
of the
House
and the
Senate
in jeopardy?
MR. PLOUFFE:
What I would say is, I think right now, because this is going to be
elections
between two people in a
state
, in some cases it'll be three people where there's
tea party
third
party
candidates, but in
states
in districts.
And I
think if you look at that, the
Senate
, they'd have to run the table. I don't see any evidence of that, and we've got people running strong campaigns. We've won a lot of
special elections
in the
House
because our
House
candidates are running great localized campaigns, really focusing on turnout and making that a choice between two individuals. So, now this is turbulent political
environment
. We have big majorities. So of course we're going to give some of that back. But I think we can maintain
control
in both chambers if we make this a choice between two people in districts and
states
, and we have to make sure Democratic turnout jumps up because, right now, the
Republicans
are coming out at a very high level. We shouldn't expect that to abate.
MR. GREGORY:
But isn't part of what you're getting out here is that you have to basically shift the, the mindset of voters to the shortcomings of their opponents because, if it is a referendum on the president and his leadership, you come up short?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, I -- listen,
elections
are choices. So we're happy to talk about, you know, the
Recovery Act
and what it meant, the jobs and businesses that have sprouted up all over
America
, the new
energy economy
, combat -- our operations in
Iraq
coming to a close, all the healthcare assist that seniors are going to get. And so...
MR. GREGORY:
But I'm asking about the president's leadership...
MR. PLOUFFE:
Yeah.
MR. GREGORY:
...whether that's being graded here, whether it's being tested here.
MR. PLOUFFE:
I think the way voters look at this
election
is I've got two people running for the
Senate
or for the
House
, and they're going to evaluate positions and views and vote for those people. But listen, I think we as
Democrats
, we do have to make this a choice, and so the
Republicans
need to be on trial here, too. But we ought to be proud of what we've done because this is leadership. We -- these were not normal times. We were facing unprecedented
economic crisis
and issues like
health care
,
energy
, education, that leadership in this town had refused to deal with for decades.
MR. GREGORY:
But, look, the
Democrats
are in, in power. You, you -- one of the things that got you to the
White House
was the strength of independent support.
Independent
voters, as I said, are now disapproving of the president's performance at a 60 percent margin. You have made the point that everybody out there in
America
's making adjustments in their lives.
Washington
doesn't seem to be making any adjustments in the way they're spending money or running the government. That has to lay at the door post -- or the doormat of the president and the
Democrats
.
MR. PLOUFFE:
Well, first of all, I do think most voters out there think, when asked who's really trying to reach out to the other side, who's trying to bring more of spirit of, of debate and bipartisanship to
Washington
, believe the president's trying to. Secondly, on spending, you know, the president's done some tough things on spending. First of all, being honest about the spending, you know,
for the first time
in a long time.
The Republicans
, obviously, are lecturing us about fiscal discipline. It was their policies and their fiscal positions that led us to this position. So we -- first of all, we should not take any lectures from them. And on
tax cuts
, which Senator
Graham
just talked about, they want to extend them for another 10 years, which is $700 billion, without paying for them. So we have to remind people, when
President Clinton
left office, we had a surplus. We had a record deficit over $1.3 trillion when
President Obama
took office. Why? Because the
Republicans
had unpaid for wars,
tax cuts
, entitlement expansion. Do you really believe three years later you can trust them on fiscal matters?
MR. GREGORY:
Well, but, but let's talk about
tax cuts
for a second, because
Mark Zandi
, who is an economist who has advised
Republicans
and
Democrats
, wrote this in
The New York Times
about the
tax cuts
we can afford. "The prudent
middle ground
," he wrote, "would be to forestall any tax increases in
2011
and to phase in higher rates on upper-income households in
2012
when the economy will be on firmer ground." In other words, don't raise any taxes right now, extend all the
Bush
-era
tax cuts
. Why isn't that a good idea? There are a lot of
Democrats
, by the way, lining up behind that very position.
MR. PLOUFFE:
First thing I'd say, what the congressional
Republicans
are proposing is a permanent extension of
tax cuts
for the wealthiest, which means 80 percent of the people that get those
tax cuts
are millionaires, OK? Permanent. Now, in a recession, I understand those who say maybe for a year we should consider this. My view would be, and I'm not an economist, and I'm certainly not involved in these decisions. The
White House
...
MR. GREGORY:
But what's the president's view?
MR. PLOUFFE:
But here's that, that if we're going to borrow money from the Chinese to give further
tax cuts
it not -- ought not go to millionaires. We ought to do more for
small businesses
in
tax cuts
. So what the president is proposing is permanent extension of
tax cuts
for the
middle class
. We have a
small business
plan right now in front of the
United States Senate
that would provide huge tax relief, incentive for lending, incentive for expansion.
That's what
we ought to be doing.
MR. GREGORY:
Would the president entertain the idea of extending all the
tax cuts
for a period of two years?
MR. PLOUFFE:
You know, I don't know what his final position's going to be. I -- what -- he's been pretty clear on this, which is the
middle class
and
small businesses
ought to be the target of our tax relief, that those at the very top -- and again, we're not talking about the mom and pop
small business
person, we're talking about 80 percent of the people the
Republicans
want to give permanent
tax credits
to are millionaires, without paying for it. So this is a very important issue, I think. We won the tax debate with
John McCain
in
2008
because the
American people
believed that we wanted to tuck -- cut taxes for them, not the big corporate interests and not millionaires in this
country
.
MR. GREGORY:
I'm curious, when we talk about economic recovery and the political scene, former
President Clinton
has been campaigning,
The New York Times
covered one of his statements when he was on the trail, and I'll put it up on the screen. He said, "A year and a half just wasn't enough time to get us out of the hole we are in, so I want you to stick with us. Give us two more years, two more years until another
election
. If we fail, you can throw us all out." Does
President Obama
see it that way? In other words, he's got one term to
turn this thing around
?
MR. PLOUFFE:
He doesn't view it through the prism of politics. He views it through the prism of the
country
was in an enormous hole so we had to do everything we can to dig out of that. Plus, we had ignored the long-term challenges of
health care
,
energy
, economy,
education reform
. And that's how he views it. And if you make decisions based on politics, you're going to do the
country
a big disservice.
MR. GREGORY:
But, but what, what, what maybe
President Clinton
was referring to, do you envision a
primary challenge
from another Democrat in
2012
against this president?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Oh, I can't imagine that. And, you know, we've got -- listen, we've got one
election
in front of us. It seemed like the last one just ended.
MR. GREGORY:
Right.
MR. PLOUFFE:
So there's be time to talk about
2012
.
MR. GREGORY:
But given who made that statement, do you -- can you rule out, based on actual information, that Secretary of State
Clinton
would not pursue the presidency again, would not challenge
President Obama
?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Listen, you saw this week they're working so well together, working on
Middle East
peace, and it's a wonderful partnership. And, you know, I think that was a really inspired choice by the president, and Secretary of State
Clinton
is just doing a remarkable job.
MR. GREGORY:
So is that a yes, no, or maybe?
MR. PLOUFFE:
Listen, they're, they're, they're a team and a great team for
America
.
“ ”