THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
December 8, 2014
Guest: Joe Wilson, Mieke Eoyang, Charles Ogletree, Cedric Alexander, John
Wisniewski, Stuart Milk
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, I think that was your bluest
material yet, as the old Catskills comedians used to call it, working blue
with Rachel Maddow.
RACHEL MADDOW, "TRMS" HOST: Yes, I don`t make this stuff up. I have
to go apologize to my mom now. Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.
Well, U.S. Marines have been put on alert in anticipation of the
release tomorrow morning of a Senate report on the CIA`s use of torture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The imminent release of the so-called Senate
torture report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials in the White House panicked, that it
may incite violence abroad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Embassies in Cairo and other capitals are on
alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us about the report coming out?
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Oh, not now. I will tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The report is expected to accuse the CIA of
lying to Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big CIA secrets about torture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not going to come as a surprise to anybody
in that part of the world.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We did some things that
were wrong. We tortured some folks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The country was in no way ready to come to grips
with the torture that took place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is a terrible idea.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: Whatever the report says --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re the bad guys sometimes.
BUSH: -- if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is
way off base.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That begs (ph) the imagination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only hardened the Democrats` resolve to go
public.
FEINSTEIN: I make comments on the floor tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Vice President Dick Cheney told "The New
York Times" any idea that the CIA misled the White House is, quote, "a
crock".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we had not engaged in torture, there would be
no issue here to begin with.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: This report so about making sure that
people understand what happened so it doesn`t happen again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, U.S. embassies worldwide are on alert. And 2,000
Marines have been placed on alert in and around the Persian Gulf and the
Mediterranean to respond to any potential threat against Americans after
the release of a Senate Intelligence Committee report tomorrow morning that
will detail the interrogation methods used by the CIA on prisoners after
9/11.
Secretary of State John Kerry spoke with Senator Dianne Feinstein, the
chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee Friday night to discuss the
timing of the release and whether it could incite retaliation against
Americans. A leaked version of the report`s conclusion says the CIA
systematically misled or lied to the White House and Congress about its
techniques and oversold the techniques` efficacy in getting useful
intelligence.
The full classified report is actually 6,000 pages. Tomorrow, only
the 600-page executive summary will be released, eight months after the
committee voted to declassify it.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney didn`t need to read a single line of
that report to determine that the report is, quote, "a bunch of hooey."
Cheney told "The New York Times", quote, "When we had that program in place
we kept the country safe from any more mass casualty attacks. If I had to
do it all over again, I would do it."
Former President George W. Bush spoke in defense of the CIA over the
weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We`re fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA,
serving on our behalf. These are patriots and whatever the report says, if
it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base.
And I knew the directors. I knew the deputy directors. You know, I
knew a lot of the operators. These are good people, really good people.
And we`re lucky as a nation to have them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, Republican members of the Senate Intelligence
Committee, Senators Marco Rubio and Jim Risch questioned the wisdom of
releasing the report, something they did not vote for. Quote, "It is
unconscionable that the committee and the White House would support
releasing this report despite warnings from our allies, the U.S. State
Department and a new document assessing the increased risk to the United
States the release of this report poses."
But Democratic Senator Ron Wyden, also on the Senate Intelligence
Committee, told NBC`s Andrea Mitchell that the risks are not new.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WYDEN: There are some around the world who are already angry at the
United States because torture was used in the past. This report doesn`t
change that. I think when the American people hear about topics like this,
they want the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining me now is a former ambassador, Joe Wilson, and
Mieke Eoyang, a former House Intelligence Committee staffer and former
defense policy adviser to Senator Edward Kennedy.
Joe Wilson, the -- we have seen, in the past, outrage on different
sides of the aisle over different potential exposures of the CIA, including
in your case when your wife was revealed by the Republican White House,
George W. Bush`s administration to be working in the CIA. There was an
awful lot of outrage about how that could be released at all. What are the
general principles for what the CIA should be able to keep secret, must
keep secret and what should not be secret?
AMB. JOE WILSON, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO GABON: Well, certainly the case
of sources and methods and personalities, the covert operators should be
kept secret and out of the public eye. But in this case, one of the
enduring features of American democracy and one of the things that really
appeals to people who live in dictatorships is the fact that we`re willing
to confront our foibles when we commit errors as we obviously did in --
against international law and our own domestic law in conducting this
torture program.
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, what`s your reaction to the release of this
report, a decision to release it?
MIEKE EOYANG, FORMER HOUSE INTEL CMTE STAFF: I think this decision
has been a long time coming. The administration has been working with the
committee for eight months to redact sensitive information and had a chance
to air its concerns about the timing of the release, the security that
might be necessary with that. And this was an extensive investigation.
Five years, 6,000 pages, career investigators.
They put a lot of time and effort into this, and Dianne Feinstein,
who`s been a staunch supporter of the intelligence community, is the person
who is most likely give them a fair shake at this.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the House chairman of the
Intelligence Committee has said about this, Mike Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), INTELLIGENCE CMTE CHAIRMAN: I think this is
a terrible idea. Our foreign partners are telling us this will cause
violence and deaths. Our foreign leaders approach the government and said
if you do this, this will cause violence and deaths. Our own intelligence
community has assessed that this will cause violence and deaths. Think of
the cartoons in Denmark and how many people died as a result. Think of the
burning of the Korans and how many people died as a result. They will use
this to incite violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joe Wilson, what`s your reaction to that?
WILSON: They should have thought of that before they issued the
documents authorizing this. And it`s not just the CIA. I read Jose
Rodriguez` piece in the "Washington Post", which strikes me as a banality
of evil, but he does make a good point that his political masters, the
extent to which they are not included in this CIA report is probably
inadequate, and I would begin with Dick Cheney and George Bush himself and
go right down the line, Scooter Libby, David Addington, his lawyer, Alberto
Gonzalez, and everybody who signed off on these authorizations for
something that is against every international treaty obligation that we
have made on the particular subject. The U.N. Convention on Human Rights,
the U.N. Convention on Torture, the Geneva Convention, all of which has
standing as U.S. law in addition to the international treaty commitments.
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, there are a number of reasons for keeping
information classified and there`s plenty of information even around this
subject that will remain classified as a result of this report. Where
would you draw the line in a situation like this about what should be
classified, what shouldn`t, and how would you weigh what Congressman Rogers
is saying about the potential risk to Americans of releasing the
information.
EOYANG: So, one of the things that you want to keep classified are
the identities of covert agents. You do that for their protection and the
protection of the people who work with them. And the administration has
been working closely with the committee to make sure that those identities
are kept secret.
The other thing, though, when you look at what should be released,
this is a review of the techniques that were used. It`s fundamentally
different than the circumstances that Chairman Rogers is talking about.
The burning of the Koran, the Danish cartoons. Those were slights to Islam
itself. What we`re talking about here in this report are slights to our
own values as Americans where we fell below a standard that we have set in
international treaties and that the president and Lindsey Graham and John
McCain have all agreed is wrong.
It`s very difficult to see ISIS grabbing the moral high ground on this
and complaining about waterboarding and sleep deprivation when they`ve been
beheading people.
O`DONNELL: So, Mieke, are you saying that you don`t expect any, that
there actually isn`t a risk to American life that should be considered in
this release?
EOYANG: It`s certainly a very volatile region and I would certainly
say there`s no risk whatsoever. It`s always good to be cautious and put
people on alert. But what I think what we`re talking about here and what
we`ve seen in the history is the reaction to the violence that ensues is
because of slights and insults to the religion, not to the same reactions
we had to Abu Ghraib or Haditha or what I would expect with this report.
O`DONNELL: So, Joe Wilson, so if one of the principles is protection
of life of CIA agents, CIA assets so we don`t ever name the agents in order
to protect their lives, what Congressman Rogers is saying, there are other
lives at stake here in the release of this information and do we have an
obligation to protect those lives in the same way that we have the
obligation to use classified cover to protect agents` lives?
WILSON: Well, I think as was said earlier, the fact that we`re
putting people on alert is a good cautionary note, not to be out and about
perhaps tomorrow. But I agree the fact that we`re releasing a report that
faults our own techniques is going to cause any violence against Americans
is the techniques themselves used on people that have pissed off the entire
region against us.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the president said about why this
should be released.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Even before I came into
office, I was very clear that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we did
some things that were wrong. We did a whole lot of things that were right.
But we tortured some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our
values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, do we have any precedent in our history for
this kind of release of looking at things we`ve done in war or other
situations and decided we shouldn`t just stop it, we shouldn`t just stop
doing it, we should also release all the information we have about how we
did it?
EOYANG: Absolutely. In fact, the military has a very strong history
of after-action reviews in all kinds of circumstances. You saw that in the
My Lai massacre. You saw this in the Church and Pike Commissions about the
intelligence community.
We have seen over and over again the history of America learning from
its mistakes, deciding what it will and will not do going forward and being
an example to the rest of the world about its willingness to admit when
it`s done things that are contrary to our values. It`s part of who we are
as Americans.
O`DONNELL: Ambassador Joe Wilson and Mieke Eoyang, thank you both
very much for joining me tonight.
EOYANG: Thank you.
WILSON: Thanks very much, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, more protests, of course, tonight, against excessive use of
force by police. And this evening, President Obama added some more
comments about the grand juries` decision in New York and in the Eric
Garner case. That`s coming up next.
And we have reports tonight that members of Governor Chris Christie`s
administration could soon be indicted as a result of a federal
investigation of the lane closures at the George Washington Bridge.
And, Vladimir Putin`s hard line against gays at the Olympics in Russia
may have backfired. Stuart Milk will join me to explain a big win for the
LGBT rights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: You know, the verdict was hard to understand. You know, I
hadn`t seen all the details. But it`s sad that race continues to play such
a, you know, kind of an emotional divisive part of life. It calls into
question what needs to be done to heal -- to get the country united again.
But no question, and as Condi mentioned and I agree, there`s been
tremendous progress based on race, but I think these incidents show there
needs to be more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A couple of royals went to a NBA game tonight in Brooklyn,
but their presence was overshadowed by NBA players` protests over the NYPD
killing of Eric Garner. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: You`re looking at images of protests in New York City
tonight, earlier tonight, protesting the grand jury decision not to indict
a New York City police officer in the death of Eric Garner. Also tonight,
more than 100 protesters gathered outside the Barclays Center where the
Brooklyn Nets are playing the Cleveland Cavaliers, protesting inside before
the game were NBA stars like LeBron James and Darren Williams who wore "I
can`t breathe" t-shirts.
Here`s what President Obama said tonight about the protests on BET.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think there are a lot of good, well-meaning people. I think
a lot of police officers who might have looked at that and said, you know,
that is a tragedy what happened, and we`ve got to figure out what happened,
how to bring an end to these kinds of tragedies. But then, attention spans
move on, right? There`s next thing. There`s some international crisis.
Something that happens here, and change doesn`t really occur. And the
value of peaceful protests, activism, organizing, is, it reminds the
society, this is not yet done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman
formally requested Governor Andrew Cuomo immediately issue an interim
executive order, quote, "directing the office of the attorney general to
investigate and if necessary prosecute cases involving unarmed civilians
killed by police officers."
He said this to Chris Hayes this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN, NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is very
dangerous to have the people of a city or a state feel that they can`t
trust the police. They have to come forward as witnesses. They have to
trust their police officers, the NYPD is a great department, we have a
great commissioner making reforms.
But all across America, people are asking the question, how do we
ensure that there`s an independent arbiter when there are accusations as
something serious as death caused by a police officer acting in the line of
duty. I think this is just a step towards restoring confidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining me now is Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree,
and Dr. Cedric Alexander, public safety director for DeKalb County,
Georgia, and president of the National Organization of Black Law
Enforcement Executives.
Professor Ogletree, does the attorney general of the state of New York
actually need an order from the governor to do this? Couldn`t he actually
look, examine these cases through his own civil rights division?
CHARLES OGLETREE, LAW PROF., HARVARD UNIV.: He could do it, but I
think he`s trying to make sure he`s going through the right process. And I
have to say that what he`s doing makes a lot of sense to talk to the black
officers in particular, to talk about what they`ve been going through, what
they`ve been experiencing.
You know, I have been a big fan of NOBLE ever since it was created,
and I think it`s important to have an organization of black police
officers, but I think a lot of people are feeling conflicted now. On the
one hand, they want to enforce the law, the want to serve the people, but
they`re seeing over and over again, African-American men choked to death
like Eric Garner, people shot and killed like Michael Brown. And they`re
saying, you know what, we have to do something in the force.
I love to meet with them. I love to meet with NOBLE. I love to have
this conversation with black police officers to talk about -- they have to
be police officers, but what we have to do to make the kids think about law
enforcement as a career that they want to pursue.
O`DONNELL: Cedric Alexander, the perfect introduction to you right
there from professor Ogletree. What is the black police officers` role in
both policy-making here going forward and this discussion?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATL. ORG. OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXEC.: Well,
let me tell you what NOBLE`s role is, ever since 1976 when noble stood up
as an organization. And it stood up just for issues that we`re still
confronted with today 40 years ago. Noble has played a very clear and
important role in terms of helping move human rights and justice for all
people.
In terms of Dr. Ogletree, I certainly do welcome a conversation with
you around this subject matter, because for many police officers of color,
particularly African-American, it certainly can be a challenge in terms of
what we`re seeing. But the reality of it is -- it`s a very difficult
convoluted situation we`re dealing with here today. Officers across this
country, both black and white, there are many, the greatest majority of
them doing a tremendous job out here protecting and serving every day.
But we have an outcry from a much larger community that is saying to
all of us, this is not just about police. This is about, really, a
criminal justice system itself, in a broad sense that`s at question here,
Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Now, I think we can agree, no president has ever had more
to say about these issues than President Obama has. There have been very
controversial killings by police during every presidency, most of them
ignored by the White House.
Let`s listen to something the president said tonight on BET about how
he understands it can be frustrating for some people that he isn`t more
forceful about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Part of what I think is so heartbreaking and frustrating for a
lot of folks when they watch this is the recognition that simply by virtue
of color you`ve got less margin for error. That`s true -- particularly
true for black boys.
I want my grandsons to be treated like anybody else`s grandsons. If
they`re messing up, I think they should be corrected. They`ll first be
corrected by me, or their mother or their father. But I don`t want them to
be -- to be subjected to the kind of constant bias that makes them feel as
if this is not their home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was actually a different part of the interview, but
I`m glad we heard it.
Professor Ogletree, you`ve known President Obama sense he was one of
your law students. You know the man. You know the father. And he`s now
thinking about what life might be like for him as a grandfather and the
possibility of having grandsons, and what this means to them.
OGLETREE: I think that`s very important. I think that this president
has done a great job of trying to make people understand that he`s the
president of all America. He happens to be black. But he`s a president
not of black America but all of America.
Having said that, he has been watching what I`ve been watching --
death after death after death by young African-American boys dying at the
hands of white police officers, and that has to stop.
And he has grand -- he has children. I have children and
grandchildren, and I talk to them the say way, that they have to be
careful. They have to do things that I had to do, learn from my
grandfather and father, to be careful to not intimidate police officers or
make them think because you`re black, you can`t go into a department store,
you can`t go behind a car. You can`t go into certain places.
That has to change. We`re in the year 2014. We have to change our
views about race and about police. We need more police officers, and I am
absolutely in support of that, but we also need them to be trained in a way
that their first duty as the former Police Chief Lee P. Brown said is to be
involved in community policing and not be involved in shooting, killing and
arresting black men as their first prerogative.
O`DONNELL: Community policing was actually invented in Boston in the
1950s when they first allowed Irish police officers. The big criminal
element in the city at that time was the Irish. And without the Irish,
police force eventually taking over. It`s not clear how that problem would
have been tamed, the criminal elements of that population.
Cedric Alexander, I have reminded police audiences in various times
over the years and I`ve spoken to them about this very issue and the value
and the history of community policing. It`s not a new idea.
ALEXANDER: No, it`s not a new idea. In fact, it has been around for
a very long time. But, of course, it`s a loss a lot of what it has meant
over the years.
And I think the other problem that existed, too, very early on is that
police officers would hear the term community-oriented policing and not
know what it means. But let me say this -- over the last 30 or 40 year, we
truly have seen differences between police and community relations. Good
in many ways, but yet, still, many parts of this country still very much
challenged.
So, I hear everyone talk about the problem. But the real issue here,
Lawrence is this, is that we`re going to have to come up with strategies or
we`re just going to continue to have this conversation. And I think one of
the first things we have to do in terms of strategies, what I want to focus
on, because we all know what the problem is.
We got to start making sure that our elected officials, our appointed
officials, our community leaders, particularly right now in this point in
time in American history, start talking to each other about what the
challenges are.
We`re not going to be able to talk this away. We`re going to have to
strategize it away, and it`s going to take a while for that to happen. But
here, again, we must look at the entire criminal justice system as it
relates to the issues that we`re seeing that`s involving white officers and
young black kids and the history, the history of all this.
O`DONNELL: Cedric Alexander and Charles Ogletree, thank you very much
for sharing your wisdom and experience with these issues. Thank you.
ALEXANDER: Thank you for having me.
OGLETREE: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, the first woman in Congress is the only person
who voted against two consecutive declarations of war. That`s in the
"Rewrite" tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: If you were the U.S. Attorney, would
you think that there`s anything to be investigated, and would you bring any
changes?
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: As I`ve said many times, when I
was U.S. Attorney, I hated when politicians stood behind a podium and said,
"This is what the U.S. Attorney should or shouldn`t do."
And I`m not going to engage in that kind of conduct at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: WNBC is reporting that Paul Fishman, the U.S. Attorney for
New Jersey is expected to file multiple charges in the federal
investigation into the George Washington Bridge lane closures.
Also, according to WNBC, one of the people involved in the bridge
closures is telling friends of an expected indictment. Today, the New
Jersey Legislative Committee that is investigating the lane closures
released its interim report on the George Washington lane closures to the
public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LORETTA WEINBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: Laws were potentially broken.
Bridget Kelly`s instruction to Christina Renna to delete an e-mail, they
had violated the witness tampering statutes in New Jersey.
Similarly, 12 text messages exchanged between the governor and a top
administration official, Regina Egea, during the testimony of port
authority officials before an assembly committee, were apparently deleted
by both parties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The 136-page report finds that David Wildstein implemented
the lane closures after getting the e-mail, quote, "time for some traffic
in Fort Lee," end quote, the e-mail that we will all memorize that was from
Bridget Kelly.
The report also finds, quote, "At present, there is no conclusive
evidence as to whether Governor Chris Christie was or was not aware of the
lane closures either in advance of their implementation or
contemporaneously as they were occurring, nor is there conclusive evidence
as to whether Governor Christie did or did not have involvement in
implementing or directing the lane closures."
"Nevertheless, according to Michael Drewniak`s testimony, Wildstein
has claimed that he informed the governor of the lane closures at a 9/11
memorial observance that the two attended."
"While the committee currently has no means to independently evaluate
Wildstein`s reported statement, the statement, as well as the current lack
of information from Wildstein, Kelly , Steppe and others, leaves open the
question of when the governor first learned of the closures and what he was
told."
Joining me now is New Jersey Assemblyman John Wisniewski, who is the
co-chair of the legislative committee investigating the George Washington
Bridge lane closures.
So, the question of what did the governor know and when did he know it
is not conclusively determined by your interim report?
JOHN WISNIEWSKI, NEW JERSEY ASSEMBLYMAN: Not yet. There are lots of
unanswered questions. And, I think, what this report best shows is that
despite a lot of work by this committee, there are witnesses that have not
been available to us.
And, therefore, there are unanswered questions. It is too early to
say, conclusively, that the governor had no involvement, or that he had
involvement.
O`DONNELL: So, the federal investigation actually has kind of kept
some of these witnesses away because of legal jeopardy and so forth. I
want to get to that thing -- the point that Senator Weinberg was mentioning
about the deleted -- you have found some texts --
WISNIEWSKI: Twelve text messages.
O`DONNELL: -- twelve texts that the governor deleted. Tell us about
that.
WISNIEWSKI: During the testimony almost a year ago that the Executive
Director of the Port Authority provided to the Transportation Committee,
the governor, who is now Chief of Staff, listened to the testimony.
And she said that she only had one text communication with the
governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
It turns out there were 12. It started with the governor texting her.
She responded. And it was a running dialogue, it appears, during that day
of testimony.
Coincidentally, now that the committee is asking for these records of
text messages, both the governor and the governor`s chief of staff have
simultaneously deleted these messages.
O`DONNELL: Do you know when they were deleted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WISNIEWSKI: We don`t know when they`re deleted. And they can`t tell
us when they`re deleted. And that`s all the more troubling.
O`DONNELL: When you say, "They can`t tell us," you`ve asked the
governor, "When did you delete these messages?"
WISNIEWSKI: We`ve asked through his counsel and they said that they
were deleted in the ordinary course of business, whatever that means.
But what`s troubling is people have said Bridget Kelly may have
violated the law because she tried to delete --
O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.
WISNIEWSKI: -- an e-mail that we would have been interested in.
Similarly, we would have been interested in seeing these text messages if,
for no other reason, than to corroborate the story we`ve been given that
there was nothing there.
O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.
WISNIEWSKI: But, interestingly enough, before we get a chance to look
at it, they get deleted.
That raises some very suspicious, you know, circumstances here about
why would they both delete it. I could see if one person deletes and the
other one doesn`t.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
But they both deleted them. That`s troubling.
O`DONNELL: This report today is an interim report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Will you wait for the federal investigation to be over to try to
resume to get what would then be the full report.
WISNIEWSKI: Well, I think you addressed it very adequately that we
did not want to interfere with the U.S. Attorney`s investigation, so we
couldn`t call people.
When that investigation is concluded, there will be people,
potentially, that have no involvement going forward. Our committee can
then pick up its work and not worry about jeopardizing their work.
But there`s lots of people, there`s probably upwards of eight or 10
individuals that we would like to hear from, that we`ve refrain from
calling those people.
Some of them are right at the center of the controversy -- Bridget
Kelly, David Wildstein, others less so. But they all have relevant
information, or may have relevant information that we need to get to.
O`DONNELL: Now, in the possibility of indictments, and we don`t have
anything near definitive on the possibility of indictments now -- there`s
just one report through WNBC, very reliable reporters involved -- but in
the event of indictments, that could then delay your investigation for a
very significant period of time because those witnesses will be off into
the criminal judicial process for what could be years.
WISNIEWSKI: Yes. For those witnesses, our potential witnesses that
may be the subject of an indictment or other process by the U.S. Attorney`s
Office, it`s very likely that we won`t be able to really pursue them for
some time.
But there, again, maybe others who are not on the receiving end of
that kind of process who may be freed up. It really is a situational thing
that we`ll have to take day by day and see what unfolds. It`s too early to
predict what may happen.
O`DONNELL: Now, Chris Christie is going to say, "Look, here`s the
report. They found nothing. There`s nothing there."
WISNIEWSKI: But we didn`t find nothing. We found a lot. We found
that there was an effort to close these lane, there was a cover-up.
And then there was an effort to cover up the cover-up. I mean,
clearly, what we don`t know is who gave Bridget Kelly the belief that she
should close these lanes.
Who gave David Wildstein the authority to act in the fashion he did.
Why were these text messages deleted. Why did Bridget Kelly try to delete
an e-mail.
These were all very suspicious circumstances. But without having the
opportunity to talk to some of the people at the heart of it, we won`t get
to the answers right away.
O`DONNELL: Assemblyman John Wisniewski, thank you very much for
joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.
Coming up next, exactly one member of Congress voted against the
United States entering World War I and World War II. And she is in
tonight`s "Rerun."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, NBC HOST: Let`s take a look at the pros and cons of
William and Kate visiting New York City. Here we go.
Pro, they`re second in line to the throne. Con, they`re 300th in line
to "Mama Mia."
(LAUGHTER)
Very popular show.
STEVE HIGGINS, THE TONIGHT SHOW ANNOUNCER: Very popular show, very
popular.
FALLON: Pro, having afternoon tea with the mayor. Con, having
morning Chardonnay with Hoda and Kathie Lee.
(LAUGHTER)
It`s a tradition. They have to do it.
(LAUGHTER)
Pro, seeing the naked cowboy in Times Square. Con, realizing it`s
actually Prince Harry. Oh, really. He`s fun. He likes to have a good
time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Coming up, a big LGBT Rights victory today. And the
"Rewrite" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
On this day in history, this very day, the United States Congress
voted to enter World War II, declaring war on Japan the day after Japanese
Military attack on the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbor.
The vote came after an emergency address to a joint session of
Congress by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, 32ND U.S. PRESIDENT: Yesterday,
December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy, the United States of
America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by a naval and air forces of
the Empire of Japan.
With confidence in our Armed Forces, with the unbounding determination
of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us
God.
(APPLAUSE)
I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and
dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7th, 1941, a state of war has
existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The vote on the Declaration of War in the Senate was
unanimous. And in the House of Representatives, it was 388 in favor, one
opposed. The one vote against war was cast by Jeanette Rankin of Montana
when she tried to gain recognition to speak on the House Floor, Speaker Sam
Rayburn of Texas refused and declared her out of order.
The "Associated Press" said that Jeanette Rankin`s vote against the
war was met with a chorus of, quote, "hisses and boos." When she left the
House Chamber, the scene was chaotic.
She had to hide in a phone booth to avoid spectators who condemned her
vote and she was finally escorted back to her office by the Capitol Police.
She publicly explained her vote by saying, "As a woman, I can`t go to
war and I refuse to send anybody else." Privately, she told friends, "I
have nothing left but my integrity."
Her brother sent her a telegram from Montana, saying, "Montana is a
hundred percent against you."
Jeanette Rankin chose not to run for reelection. Jeanette Rankin
served only two terms in the House of Representatives and they were not
consecutive.
She was first elected just in time to vote on the Declaration of War
for World War I and was sworn in with the new Congress on April 2nd, 1917,
whereupon, Jeanette Rankin became the first, the very first and only woman
member of the United States House of Representatives.
Montana was then one of the few enlightened states that allowed women
the right to vote before a Constitutional Amendment allowed all American
women the right to vote.
Having run as a pacifist, it wasn`t so surprising when she voted
against the Declaration of War for World War I. And she wasn`t alone, 50
Members of the House voted against it.
She said then, "If they are going to have war, they ought to take the
old men and leave the young to propagate the race."
When President Woodrow Wilson asked Congress for that Declaration of
War on Germany, he said it was, quote, "to make the world safe for
democracy."
Congresswoman Rankin used those words when urging the House of
Representatives to vote for a Constitutional Amendment, granting women in
every state the right to vote.
She said on the House Floor, "How shall we explain to them the meaning
of democracy if the same Congress that voted to make the world safe for
democracy refuses to give this small measure of democracy to the women of
our country."
Nearly three years later, in 1920, the 19th Constitutional Amendment
was ratified and, finally, women in every state had the right to vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
In the last months of her life in 1973, Jeanette Rankin was
considering another run for a House seat to protest the Vietnam War.
There is a Jeanette Rankin statue in the House of Representatives not
because she is the only member of Congress to vote against Declarations of
War for both World Wars but because she was the first woman member of
Congress.
When she won that first Congressional election 98 years ago, Jeanette
Rankin said, quote, "I may be the first woman member of Congress but I
won`t be the last."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Last Monday night, I reintroduced you the K.I.N.D. Fund, Kids in Need
of Desks, the partnership that I created with UNICEF to provide desks for
African schools, desks that are built in Malawi by African workers, thereby
creating jobs in Africa, and then delivered to schools in Africa where they
have never had desks, where students have never seen desks.
It`s something I talk about every year at this time. It is the
permanent cause of this show.
We then spent the rest of the week in Breaking News situations and
we`re not able to get back to update you on the progress of the K.I.N.D.
Fund.
In the course of that week, without me saying another word about it,
you have contributed another $250,892 for the K.I.N.D. Fund. That`s for
kids -- for desks in kids` schools, and for the other part of the program
that we have, which is providing tuitions -- high school tuitions for girls
-- girls` education being a particular challenge in Malawi and other
African countries.
The total that you have contributed so far since we started this
program is $7,867,657. Thank you very much for that.
If you would like to learn more about the K.I.N.D. Fund, you can
always go to LASTWORDDESKS.MSNBC.COM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A year ago on this program, Stuart Milk of the Harvey Milk Foundation
first called on the International Olympic Committee to change its policy
regarding host countries` discrimination against the LGBT community.
Today, --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
-- the International Olympic Committee unanimously approved 40
changes, including the addition of sexual orientation to the Olympic
Charter`s Anti-discrimination Clause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Joining me now is Stuart Milk, the President of the Harvey Milk
Foundation. And, Stuart, I have to tell you, the way I discovered this
today is I saw your tweet, announcing it and making reference to having
talked about it a year ago on this program.
And I said to the staff, "Let`s get Stuart on." This is -- this took
a year but it seems like there`s definitely -- this is one of the benefits
that came out of what the world-watched Vladimir Putin doing during the
Russian Olympics.
STUART MILK, PRESIDENT, HARVEY MILK FOUNDATION: Absolutely. And,
first of all, I`m glad that someone reads my tweets.
And, secondly, you know, I really think that it was here, on this
show, when our friend, Anita DeFrantz, was challenged by Lawrence
O`Donnell when she said that she has no choice but to believe Russia when
they said that they would allow Pride House and not discriminate.
Unfortunately, they were proven wrong. You challenged them. And,
today, they came full circle in terms of putting that into not only the
Charter but into host city contracts, that there can be no discrimination
in those cities on the basis of sexual orientation.
And it`s really a historic day. And it`s amazing that it`s come in
just a year, although we still have work to do because we don`t know for
sure where our transgender brothers and sisters fit into that.
They have said that it`s included in the "and other" phrase of the
Non-Discrimination Policy. But make no mistake about it.
This sends a huge message to countries that discriminate on the basis
of sexual orientation, that they are not going to be able to bid to be host
cities.
They`re not going -- they`re going to be excluded from that process
if they have those laws on the books.
O`DONNELL: And, Stuart, it has implications beyond just the host
countries. It has implications for countries who can never hope to host
because they don`t have the infrastructure, the ability to handle something
like that.
Because of the compliance with the Olympic Charter, and what the
Olympic Charter, is that, quote, "Belonging to the Olympic movement
requires compliance with the Olympic Charter and recognition by the IOC."
And so, this has implications for countries with some Draconian Laws
that need to be -- that need to come into conformity with the Olympic
ruling on this.
MILK: Absolutely. This is a very significant addition to the
charter. It sends a very clear message. And it sends a message to all of
those nations that still codify discrimination into their laws.
O`DONNELL: And, I mean, there is -- not to make too much about that
Olympic Charter issue because what I -- as I understand it, what it means
is a country that is banned -- whose organization, Olympic organization, is
banned because of their failure to comply.
If you`re from that country, you could still compete independently at
the Olympics, so there`s a way through that. There`s still a hole there.
That`s something they could tighten up.
MILK: That`s definitely something they can tighten up, the gender
identity piece is something that they can tighten up. But make no mistake
about it.
I want to go back to, you know, Lawrence, your challenge to IOC
Executive Committee member, Anita DeFrantz, on, you know -- on what this
really means, and just having a blind faith in a country saying they`re not
going to discriminate.
And this sends a message saying, you know, there`s no blind faith
anymore. You cannot discriminate and be part, be a host country or a host
city.
O`DONNELL: Stuart, it definitely seems they were listening.
(LAUGHTER)
MILK: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you very much for joining us tonight, really
appreciate it. And thanks for bringing it to my attention today with that
tweet.
MILK: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.
END
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THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
December 8, 2014
Guest: Joe Wilson, Mieke Eoyang, Charles Ogletree, Cedric Alexander, John
Wisniewski, Stuart Milk
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, I think that was your bluest
material yet, as the old Catskills comedians used to call it, working blue
with Rachel Maddow.
RACHEL MADDOW, "TRMS" HOST: Yes, I don`t make this stuff up. I have
to go apologize to my mom now. Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.
Well, U.S. Marines have been put on alert in anticipation of the
release tomorrow morning of a Senate report on the CIA`s use of torture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The imminent release of the so-called Senate
torture report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials in the White House panicked, that it
may incite violence abroad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Embassies in Cairo and other capitals are on
alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us about the report coming out?
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Oh, not now. I will tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The report is expected to accuse the CIA of
lying to Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big CIA secrets about torture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not going to come as a surprise to anybody
in that part of the world.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We did some things that
were wrong. We tortured some folks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The country was in no way ready to come to grips
with the torture that took place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is a terrible idea.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: Whatever the report says --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re the bad guys sometimes.
BUSH: -- if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is
way off base.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That begs (ph) the imagination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only hardened the Democrats` resolve to go
public.
FEINSTEIN: I make comments on the floor tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Vice President Dick Cheney told "The New
York Times" any idea that the CIA misled the White House is, quote, "a
crock".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we had not engaged in torture, there would be
no issue here to begin with.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: This report so about making sure that
people understand what happened so it doesn`t happen again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, U.S. embassies worldwide are on alert. And 2,000
Marines have been placed on alert in and around the Persian Gulf and the
Mediterranean to respond to any potential threat against Americans after
the release of a Senate Intelligence Committee report tomorrow morning that
will detail the interrogation methods used by the CIA on prisoners after
9/11.
Secretary of State John Kerry spoke with Senator Dianne Feinstein, the
chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee Friday night to discuss the
timing of the release and whether it could incite retaliation against
Americans. A leaked version of the report`s conclusion says the CIA
systematically misled or lied to the White House and Congress about its
techniques and oversold the techniques` efficacy in getting useful
intelligence.
The full classified report is actually 6,000 pages. Tomorrow, only
the 600-page executive summary will be released, eight months after the
committee voted to declassify it.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney didn`t need to read a single line of
that report to determine that the report is, quote, "a bunch of hooey."
Cheney told "The New York Times", quote, "When we had that program in place
we kept the country safe from any more mass casualty attacks. If I had to
do it all over again, I would do it."
Former President George W. Bush spoke in defense of the CIA over the
weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We`re fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA,
serving on our behalf. These are patriots and whatever the report says, if
it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base.
And I knew the directors. I knew the deputy directors. You know, I
knew a lot of the operators. These are good people, really good people.
And we`re lucky as a nation to have them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, Republican members of the Senate Intelligence
Committee, Senators Marco Rubio and Jim Risch questioned the wisdom of
releasing the report, something they did not vote for. Quote, "It is
unconscionable that the committee and the White House would support
releasing this report despite warnings from our allies, the U.S. State
Department and a new document assessing the increased risk to the United
States the release of this report poses."
But Democratic Senator Ron Wyden, also on the Senate Intelligence
Committee, told NBC`s Andrea Mitchell that the risks are not new.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WYDEN: There are some around the world who are already angry at the
United States because torture was used in the past. This report doesn`t
change that. I think when the American people hear about topics like this,
they want the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining me now is a former ambassador, Joe Wilson, and
Mieke Eoyang, a former House Intelligence Committee staffer and former
defense policy adviser to Senator Edward Kennedy.
Joe Wilson, the -- we have seen, in the past, outrage on different
sides of the aisle over different potential exposures of the CIA, including
in your case when your wife was revealed by the Republican White House,
George W. Bush`s administration to be working in the CIA. There was an
awful lot of outrage about how that could be released at all. What are the
general principles for what the CIA should be able to keep secret, must
keep secret and what should not be secret?
AMB. JOE WILSON, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO GABON: Well, certainly the case
of sources and methods and personalities, the covert operators should be
kept secret and out of the public eye. But in this case, one of the
enduring features of American democracy and one of the things that really
appeals to people who live in dictatorships is the fact that we`re willing
to confront our foibles when we commit errors as we obviously did in --
against international law and our own domestic law in conducting this
torture program.
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, what`s your reaction to the release of this
report, a decision to release it?
MIEKE EOYANG, FORMER HOUSE INTEL CMTE STAFF: I think this decision
has been a long time coming. The administration has been working with the
committee for eight months to redact sensitive information and had a chance
to air its concerns about the timing of the release, the security that
might be necessary with that. And this was an extensive investigation.
Five years, 6,000 pages, career investigators.
They put a lot of time and effort into this, and Dianne Feinstein,
who`s been a staunch supporter of the intelligence community, is the person
who is most likely give them a fair shake at this.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the House chairman of the
Intelligence Committee has said about this, Mike Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), INTELLIGENCE CMTE CHAIRMAN: I think this is
a terrible idea. Our foreign partners are telling us this will cause
violence and deaths. Our foreign leaders approach the government and said
if you do this, this will cause violence and deaths. Our own intelligence
community has assessed that this will cause violence and deaths. Think of
the cartoons in Denmark and how many people died as a result. Think of the
burning of the Korans and how many people died as a result. They will use
this to incite violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joe Wilson, what`s your reaction to that?
WILSON: They should have thought of that before they issued the
documents authorizing this. And it`s not just the CIA. I read Jose
Rodriguez` piece in the "Washington Post", which strikes me as a banality
of evil, but he does make a good point that his political masters, the
extent to which they are not included in this CIA report is probably
inadequate, and I would begin with Dick Cheney and George Bush himself and
go right down the line, Scooter Libby, David Addington, his lawyer, Alberto
Gonzalez, and everybody who signed off on these authorizations for
something that is against every international treaty obligation that we
have made on the particular subject. The U.N. Convention on Human Rights,
the U.N. Convention on Torture, the Geneva Convention, all of which has
standing as U.S. law in addition to the international treaty commitments.
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, there are a number of reasons for keeping
information classified and there`s plenty of information even around this
subject that will remain classified as a result of this report. Where
would you draw the line in a situation like this about what should be
classified, what shouldn`t, and how would you weigh what Congressman Rogers
is saying about the potential risk to Americans of releasing the
information.
EOYANG: So, one of the things that you want to keep classified are
the identities of covert agents. You do that for their protection and the
protection of the people who work with them. And the administration has
been working closely with the committee to make sure that those identities
are kept secret.
The other thing, though, when you look at what should be released,
this is a review of the techniques that were used. It`s fundamentally
different than the circumstances that Chairman Rogers is talking about.
The burning of the Koran, the Danish cartoons. Those were slights to Islam
itself. What we`re talking about here in this report are slights to our
own values as Americans where we fell below a standard that we have set in
international treaties and that the president and Lindsey Graham and John
McCain have all agreed is wrong.
It`s very difficult to see ISIS grabbing the moral high ground on this
and complaining about waterboarding and sleep deprivation when they`ve been
beheading people.
O`DONNELL: So, Mieke, are you saying that you don`t expect any, that
there actually isn`t a risk to American life that should be considered in
this release?
EOYANG: It`s certainly a very volatile region and I would certainly
say there`s no risk whatsoever. It`s always good to be cautious and put
people on alert. But what I think what we`re talking about here and what
we`ve seen in the history is the reaction to the violence that ensues is
because of slights and insults to the religion, not to the same reactions
we had to Abu Ghraib or Haditha or what I would expect with this report.
O`DONNELL: So, Joe Wilson, so if one of the principles is protection
of life of CIA agents, CIA assets so we don`t ever name the agents in order
to protect their lives, what Congressman Rogers is saying, there are other
lives at stake here in the release of this information and do we have an
obligation to protect those lives in the same way that we have the
obligation to use classified cover to protect agents` lives?
WILSON: Well, I think as was said earlier, the fact that we`re
putting people on alert is a good cautionary note, not to be out and about
perhaps tomorrow. But I agree the fact that we`re releasing a report that
faults our own techniques is going to cause any violence against Americans
is the techniques themselves used on people that have pissed off the entire
region against us.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the president said about why this
should be released.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Even before I came into
office, I was very clear that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we did
some things that were wrong. We did a whole lot of things that were right.
But we tortured some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our
values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, do we have any precedent in our history for
this kind of release of looking at things we`ve done in war or other
situations and decided we shouldn`t just stop it, we shouldn`t just stop
doing it, we should also release all the information we have about how we
did it?
EOYANG: Absolutely. In fact, the military has a very strong history
of after-action reviews in all kinds of circumstances. You saw that in the
My Lai massacre. You saw this in the Church and Pike Commissions about the
intelligence community.
We have seen over and over again the history of America learning from
its mistakes, deciding what it will and will not do going forward and being
an example to the rest of the world about its willingness to admit when
it`s done things that are contrary to our values. It`s part of who we are
as Americans.
O`DONNELL: Ambassador Joe Wilson and Mieke Eoyang, thank you both
very much for joining me tonight.
EOYANG: Thank you.
WILSON: Thanks very much, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, more protests, of course, tonight, against excessive use of
force by police. And this evening, President Obama added some more
comments about the grand juries` decision in New York and in the Eric
Garner case. That`s coming up next.
And we have reports tonight that members of Governor Chris Christie`s
administration could soon be indicted as a result of a federal
investigation of the lane closures at the George Washington Bridge.
And, Vladimir Putin`s hard line against gays at the Olympics in Russia
may have backfired. Stuart Milk will join me to explain a big win for the
LGBT rights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: You know, the verdict was hard to understand. You know, I
hadn`t seen all the details. But it`s sad that race continues to play such
a, you know, kind of an emotional divisive part of life. It calls into
question what needs to be done to heal -- to get the country united again.
But no question, and as Condi mentioned and I agree, there`s been
tremendous progress based on race, but I think these incidents show there
needs to be more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A couple of royals went to a NBA game tonight in Brooklyn,
but their presence was overshadowed by NBA players` protests over the NYPD
killing of Eric Garner. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: You`re looking at images of protests in New York City
tonight, earlier tonight, protesting the grand jury decision not to indict
a New York City police officer in the death of Eric Garner. Also tonight,
more than 100 protesters gathered outside the Barclays Center where the
Brooklyn Nets are playing the Cleveland Cavaliers, protesting inside before
the game were NBA stars like LeBron James and Darren Williams who wore "I
can`t breathe" t-shirts.
Here`s what President Obama said tonight about the protests on BET.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think there are a lot of good, well-meaning people. I think
a lot of police officers who might have looked at that and said, you know,
that is a tragedy what happened, and we`ve got to figure out what happened,
how to bring an end to these kinds of tragedies. But then, attention spans
move on, right? There`s next thing. There`s some international crisis.
Something that happens here, and change doesn`t really occur. And the
value of peaceful protests, activism, organizing, is, it reminds the
society, this is not yet done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman
formally requested Governor Andrew Cuomo immediately issue an interim
executive order, quote, "directing the office of the attorney general to
investigate and if necessary prosecute cases involving unarmed civilians
killed by police officers."
He said this to Chris Hayes this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN, NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is very
dangerous to have the people of a city or a state feel that they can`t
trust the police. They have to come forward as witnesses. They have to
trust their police officers, the NYPD is a great department, we have a
great commissioner making reforms.
But all across America, people are asking the question, how do we
ensure that there`s an independent arbiter when there are accusations as
something serious as death caused by a police officer acting in the line of
duty. I think this is just a step towards restoring confidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining me now is Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree,
and Dr. Cedric Alexander, public safety director for DeKalb County,
Georgia, and president of the National Organization of Black Law
Enforcement Executives.
Professor Ogletree, does the attorney general of the state of New York
actually need an order from the governor to do this? Couldn`t he actually
look, examine these cases through his own civil rights division?
CHARLES OGLETREE, LAW PROF., HARVARD UNIV.: He could do it, but I
think he`s trying to make sure he`s going through the right process. And I
have to say that what he`s doing makes a lot of sense to talk to the black
officers in particular, to talk about what they`ve been going through, what
they`ve been experiencing.
You know, I have been a big fan of NOBLE ever since it was created,
and I think it`s important to have an organization of black police
officers, but I think a lot of people are feeling conflicted now. On the
one hand, they want to enforce the law, the want to serve the people, but
they`re seeing over and over again, African-American men choked to death
like Eric Garner, people shot and killed like Michael Brown. And they`re
saying, you know what, we have to do something in the force.
I love to meet with them. I love to meet with NOBLE. I love to have
this conversation with black police officers to talk about -- they have to
be police officers, but what we have to do to make the kids think about law
enforcement as a career that they want to pursue.
O`DONNELL: Cedric Alexander, the perfect introduction to you right
there from professor Ogletree. What is the black police officers` role in
both policy-making here going forward and this discussion?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATL. ORG. OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXEC.: Well,
let me tell you what NOBLE`s role is, ever since 1976 when noble stood up
as an organization. And it stood up just for issues that we`re still
confronted with today 40 years ago. Noble has played a very clear and
important role in terms of helping move human rights and justice for all
people.
In terms of Dr. Ogletree, I certainly do welcome a conversation with
you around this subject matter, because for many police officers of color,
particularly African-American, it certainly can be a challenge in terms of
what we`re seeing. But the reality of it is -- it`s a very difficult
convoluted situation we`re dealing with here today. Officers across this
country, both black and white, there are many, the greatest majority of
them doing a tremendous job out here protecting and serving every day.
But we have an outcry from a much larger community that is saying to
all of us, this is not just about police. This is about, really, a
criminal justice system itself, in a broad sense that`s at question here,
Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Now, I think we can agree, no president has ever had more
to say about these issues than President Obama has. There have been very
controversial killings by police during every presidency, most of them
ignored by the White House.
Let`s listen to something the president said tonight on BET about how
he understands it can be frustrating for some people that he isn`t more
forceful about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Part of what I think is so heartbreaking and frustrating for a
lot of folks when they watch this is the recognition that simply by virtue
of color you`ve got less margin for error. That`s true -- particularly
true for black boys.
I want my grandsons to be treated like anybody else`s grandsons. If
they`re messing up, I think they should be corrected. They`ll first be
corrected by me, or their mother or their father. But I don`t want them to
be -- to be subjected to the kind of constant bias that makes them feel as
if this is not their home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was actually a different part of the interview, but
I`m glad we heard it.
Professor Ogletree, you`ve known President Obama sense he was one of
your law students. You know the man. You know the father. And he`s now
thinking about what life might be like for him as a grandfather and the
possibility of having grandsons, and what this means to them.
OGLETREE: I think that`s very important. I think that this president
has done a great job of trying to make people understand that he`s the
president of all America. He happens to be black. But he`s a president
not of black America but all of America.
Having said that, he has been watching what I`ve been watching --
death after death after death by young African-American boys dying at the
hands of white police officers, and that has to stop.
And he has grand -- he has children. I have children and
grandchildren, and I talk to them the say way, that they have to be
careful. They have to do things that I had to do, learn from my
grandfather and father, to be careful to not intimidate police officers or
make them think because you`re black, you can`t go into a department store,
you can`t go behind a car. You can`t go into certain places.
That has to change. We`re in the year 2014. We have to change our
views about race and about police. We need more police officers, and I am
absolutely in support of that, but we also need them to be trained in a way
that their first duty as the former Police Chief Lee P. Brown said is to be
involved in community policing and not be involved in shooting, killing and
arresting black men as their first prerogative.
O`DONNELL: Community policing was actually invented in Boston in the
1950s when they first allowed Irish police officers. The big criminal
element in the city at that time was the Irish. And without the Irish,
police force eventually taking over. It`s not clear how that problem would
have been tamed, the criminal elements of that population.
Cedric Alexander, I have reminded police audiences in various times
over the years and I`ve spoken to them about this very issue and the value
and the history of community policing. It`s not a new idea.
ALEXANDER: No, it`s not a new idea. In fact, it has been around for
a very long time. But, of course, it`s a loss a lot of what it has meant
over the years.
And I think the other problem that existed, too, very early on is that
police officers would hear the term community-oriented policing and not
know what it means. But let me say this -- over the last 30 or 40 year, we
truly have seen differences between police and community relations. Good
in many ways, but yet, still, many parts of this country still very much
challenged.
So, I hear everyone talk about the problem. But the real issue here,
Lawrence is this, is that we`re going to have to come up with strategies or
we`re just going to continue to have this conversation. And I think one of
the first things we have to do in terms of strategies, what I want to focus
on, because we all know what the problem is.
We got to start making sure that our elected officials, our appointed
officials, our community leaders, particularly right now in this point in
time in American history, start talking to each other about what the
challenges are.
We`re not going to be able to talk this away. We`re going to have to
strategize it away, and it`s going to take a while for that to happen. But
here, again, we must look at the entire criminal justice system as it
relates to the issues that we`re seeing that`s involving white officers and
young black kids and the history, the history of all this.
O`DONNELL: Cedric Alexander and Charles Ogletree, thank you very much
for sharing your wisdom and experience with these issues. Thank you.
ALEXANDER: Thank you for having me.
OGLETREE: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, the first woman in Congress is the only person
who voted against two consecutive declarations of war. That`s in the
"Rewrite" tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: If you were the U.S. Attorney, would
you think that there`s anything to be investigated, and would you bring any
changes?
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: As I`ve said many times, when I
was U.S. Attorney, I hated when politicians stood behind a podium and said,
"This is what the U.S. Attorney should or shouldn`t do."
And I`m not going to engage in that kind of conduct at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: WNBC is reporting that Paul Fishman, the U.S. Attorney for
New Jersey is expected to file multiple charges in the federal
investigation into the George Washington Bridge lane closures.
Also, according to WNBC, one of the people involved in the bridge
closures is telling friends of an expected indictment. Today, the New
Jersey Legislative Committee that is investigating the lane closures
released its interim report on the George Washington lane closures to the
public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LORETTA WEINBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: Laws were potentially broken.
Bridget Kelly`s instruction to Christina Renna to delete an e-mail, they
had violated the witness tampering statutes in New Jersey.
Similarly, 12 text messages exchanged between the governor and a top
administration official, Regina Egea, during the testimony of port
authority officials before an assembly committee, were apparently deleted
by both parties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The 136-page report finds that David Wildstein implemented
the lane closures after getting the e-mail, quote, "time for some traffic
in Fort Lee," end quote, the e-mail that we will all memorize that was from
Bridget Kelly.
The report also finds, quote, "At present, there is no conclusive
evidence as to whether Governor Chris Christie was or was not aware of the
lane closures either in advance of their implementation or
contemporaneously as they were occurring, nor is there conclusive evidence
as to whether Governor Christie did or did not have involvement in
implementing or directing the lane closures."
"Nevertheless, according to Michael Drewniak`s testimony, Wildstein
has claimed that he informed the governor of the lane closures at a 9/11
memorial observance that the two attended."
"While the committee currently has no means to independently evaluate
Wildstein`s reported statement, the statement, as well as the current lack
of information from Wildstein, Kelly , Steppe and others, leaves open the
question of when the governor first learned of the closures and what he was
told."
Joining me now is New Jersey Assemblyman John Wisniewski, who is the
co-chair of the legislative committee investigating the George Washington
Bridge lane closures.
So, the question of what did the governor know and when did he know it
is not conclusively determined by your interim report?
JOHN WISNIEWSKI, NEW JERSEY ASSEMBLYMAN: Not yet. There are lots of
unanswered questions. And, I think, what this report best shows is that
despite a lot of work by this committee, there are witnesses that have not
been available to us.
And, therefore, there are unanswered questions. It is too early to
say, conclusively, that the governor had no involvement, or that he had
involvement.
O`DONNELL: So, the federal investigation actually has kind of kept
some of these witnesses away because of legal jeopardy and so forth. I
want to get to that thing -- the point that Senator Weinberg was mentioning
about the deleted -- you have found some texts --
WISNIEWSKI: Twelve text messages.
O`DONNELL: -- twelve texts that the governor deleted. Tell us about
that.
WISNIEWSKI: During the testimony almost a year ago that the Executive
Director of the Port Authority provided to the Transportation Committee,
the governor, who is now Chief of Staff, listened to the testimony.
And she said that she only had one text communication with the
governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
It turns out there were 12. It started with the governor texting her.
She responded. And it was a running dialogue, it appears, during that day
of testimony.
Coincidentally, now that the committee is asking for these records of
text messages, both the governor and the governor`s chief of staff have
simultaneously deleted these messages.
O`DONNELL: Do you know when they were deleted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WISNIEWSKI: We don`t know when they`re deleted. And they can`t tell
us when they`re deleted. And that`s all the more troubling.
O`DONNELL: When you say, "They can`t tell us," you`ve asked the
governor, "When did you delete these messages?"
WISNIEWSKI: We`ve asked through his counsel and they said that they
were deleted in the ordinary course of business, whatever that means.
But what`s troubling is people have said Bridget Kelly may have
violated the law because she tried to delete --
O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.
WISNIEWSKI: -- an e-mail that we would have been interested in.
Similarly, we would have been interested in seeing these text messages if,
for no other reason, than to corroborate the story we`ve been given that
there was nothing there.
O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.
WISNIEWSKI: But, interestingly enough, before we get a chance to look
at it, they get deleted.
That raises some very suspicious, you know, circumstances here about
why would they both delete it. I could see if one person deletes and the
other one doesn`t.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
But they both deleted them. That`s troubling.
O`DONNELL: This report today is an interim report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Will you wait for the federal investigation to be over to try to
resume to get what would then be the full report.
WISNIEWSKI: Well, I think you addressed it very adequately that we
did not want to interfere with the U.S. Attorney`s investigation, so we
couldn`t call people.
When that investigation is concluded, there will be people,
potentially, that have no involvement going forward. Our committee can
then pick up its work and not worry about jeopardizing their work.
But there`s lots of people, there`s probably upwards of eight or 10
individuals that we would like to hear from, that we`ve refrain from
calling those people.
Some of them are right at the center of the controversy -- Bridget
Kelly, David Wildstein, others less so. But they all have relevant
information, or may have relevant information that we need to get to.
O`DONNELL: Now, in the possibility of indictments, and we don`t have
anything near definitive on the possibility of indictments now -- there`s
just one report through WNBC, very reliable reporters involved -- but in
the event of indictments, that could then delay your investigation for a
very significant period of time because those witnesses will be off into
the criminal judicial process for what could be years.
WISNIEWSKI: Yes. For those witnesses, our potential witnesses that
may be the subject of an indictment or other process by the U.S. Attorney`s
Office, it`s very likely that we won`t be able to really pursue them for
some time.
But there, again, maybe others who are not on the receiving end of
that kind of process who may be freed up. It really is a situational thing
that we`ll have to take day by day and see what unfolds. It`s too early to
predict what may happen.
O`DONNELL: Now, Chris Christie is going to say, "Look, here`s the
report. They found nothing. There`s nothing there."
WISNIEWSKI: But we didn`t find nothing. We found a lot. We found
that there was an effort to close these lane, there was a cover-up.
And then there was an effort to cover up the cover-up. I mean,
clearly, what we don`t know is who gave Bridget Kelly the belief that she
should close these lanes.
Who gave David Wildstein the authority to act in the fashion he did.
Why were these text messages deleted. Why did Bridget Kelly try to delete
an e-mail.
These were all very suspicious circumstances. But without having the
opportunity to talk to some of the people at the heart of it, we won`t get
to the answers right away.
O`DONNELL: Assemblyman John Wisniewski, thank you very much for
joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.
Coming up next, exactly one member of Congress voted against the
United States entering World War I and World War II. And she is in
tonight`s "Rerun."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, NBC HOST: Let`s take a look at the pros and cons of
William and Kate visiting New York City. Here we go.
Pro, they`re second in line to the throne. Con, they`re 300th in line
to "Mama Mia."
(LAUGHTER)
Very popular show.
STEVE HIGGINS, THE TONIGHT SHOW ANNOUNCER: Very popular show, very
popular.
FALLON: Pro, having afternoon tea with the mayor. Con, having
morning Chardonnay with Hoda and Kathie Lee.
(LAUGHTER)
It`s a tradition. They have to do it.
(LAUGHTER)
Pro, seeing the naked cowboy in Times Square. Con, realizing it`s
actually Prince Harry. Oh, really. He`s fun. He likes to have a good
time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Coming up, a big LGBT Rights victory today. And the
"Rewrite" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
On this day in history, this very day, the United States Congress
voted to enter World War II, declaring war on Japan the day after Japanese
Military attack on the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbor.
The vote came after an emergency address to a joint session of
Congress by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, 32ND U.S. PRESIDENT: Yesterday,
December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy, the United States of
America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by a naval and air forces of
the Empire of Japan.
With confidence in our Armed Forces, with the unbounding determination
of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us
God.
(APPLAUSE)
I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and
dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7th, 1941, a state of war has
existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The vote on the Declaration of War in the Senate was
unanimous. And in the House of Representatives, it was 388 in favor, one
opposed. The one vote against war was cast by Jeanette Rankin of Montana
when she tried to gain recognition to speak on the House Floor, Speaker Sam
Rayburn of Texas refused and declared her out of order.
The "Associated Press" said that Jeanette Rankin`s vote against the
war was met with a chorus of, quote, "hisses and boos." When she left the
House Chamber, the scene was chaotic.
She had to hide in a phone booth to avoid spectators who condemned her
vote and she was finally escorted back to her office by the Capitol Police.
She publicly explained her vote by saying, "As a woman, I can`t go to
war and I refuse to send anybody else." Privately, she told friends, "I
have nothing left but my integrity."
Her brother sent her a telegram from Montana, saying, "Montana is a
hundred percent against you."
Jeanette Rankin chose not to run for reelection. Jeanette Rankin
served only two terms in the House of Representatives and they were not
consecutive.
She was first elected just in time to vote on the Declaration of War
for World War I and was sworn in with the new Congress on April 2nd, 1917,
whereupon, Jeanette Rankin became the first, the very first and only woman
member of the United States House of Representatives.
Montana was then one of the few enlightened states that allowed women
the right to vote before a Constitutional Amendment allowed all American
women the right to vote.
Having run as a pacifist, it wasn`t so surprising when she voted
against the Declaration of War for World War I. And she wasn`t alone, 50
Members of the House voted against it.
She said then, "If they are going to have war, they ought to take the
old men and leave the young to propagate the race."
When President Woodrow Wilson asked Congress for that Declaration of
War on Germany, he said it was, quote, "to make the world safe for
democracy."
Congresswoman Rankin used those words when urging the House of
Representatives to vote for a Constitutional Amendment, granting women in
every state the right to vote.
She said on the House Floor, "How shall we explain to them the meaning
of democracy if the same Congress that voted to make the world safe for
democracy refuses to give this small measure of democracy to the women of
our country."
Nearly three years later, in 1920, the 19th Constitutional Amendment
was ratified and, finally, women in every state had the right to vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
In the last months of her life in 1973, Jeanette Rankin was
considering another run for a House seat to protest the Vietnam War.
There is a Jeanette Rankin statue in the House of Representatives not
because she is the only member of Congress to vote against Declarations of
War for both World Wars but because she was the first woman member of
Congress.
When she won that first Congressional election 98 years ago, Jeanette
Rankin said, quote, "I may be the first woman member of Congress but I
won`t be the last."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Last Monday night, I reintroduced you the K.I.N.D. Fund, Kids in Need
of Desks, the partnership that I created with UNICEF to provide desks for
African schools, desks that are built in Malawi by African workers, thereby
creating jobs in Africa, and then delivered to schools in Africa where they
have never had desks, where students have never seen desks.
It`s something I talk about every year at this time. It is the
permanent cause of this show.
We then spent the rest of the week in Breaking News situations and
we`re not able to get back to update you on the progress of the K.I.N.D.
Fund.
In the course of that week, without me saying another word about it,
you have contributed another $250,892 for the K.I.N.D. Fund. That`s for
kids -- for desks in kids` schools, and for the other part of the program
that we have, which is providing tuitions -- high school tuitions for girls
-- girls` education being a particular challenge in Malawi and other
African countries.
The total that you have contributed so far since we started this
program is $7,867,657. Thank you very much for that.
If you would like to learn more about the K.I.N.D. Fund, you can
always go to LASTWORDDESKS.MSNBC.COM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A year ago on this program, Stuart Milk of the Harvey Milk Foundation
first called on the International Olympic Committee to change its policy
regarding host countries` discrimination against the LGBT community.
Today, --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
-- the International Olympic Committee unanimously approved 40
changes, including the addition of sexual orientation to the Olympic
Charter`s Anti-discrimination Clause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Joining me now is Stuart Milk, the President of the Harvey Milk
Foundation. And, Stuart, I have to tell you, the way I discovered this
today is I saw your tweet, announcing it and making reference to having
talked about it a year ago on this program.
And I said to the staff, "Let`s get Stuart on." This is -- this took
a year but it seems like there`s definitely -- this is one of the benefits
that came out of what the world-watched Vladimir Putin doing during the
Russian Olympics.
STUART MILK, PRESIDENT, HARVEY MILK FOUNDATION: Absolutely. And,
first of all, I`m glad that someone reads my tweets.
And, secondly, you know, I really think that it was here, on this
show, when our friend, Anita DeFrantz, was challenged by Lawrence
O`Donnell when she said that she has no choice but to believe Russia when
they said that they would allow Pride House and not discriminate.
Unfortunately, they were proven wrong. You challenged them. And,
today, they came full circle in terms of putting that into not only the
Charter but into host city contracts, that there can be no discrimination
in those cities on the basis of sexual orientation.
And it`s really a historic day. And it`s amazing that it`s come in
just a year, although we still have work to do because we don`t know for
sure where our transgender brothers and sisters fit into that.
They have said that it`s included in the "and other" phrase of the
Non-Discrimination Policy. But make no mistake about it.
This sends a huge message to countries that discriminate on the basis
of sexual orientation, that they are not going to be able to bid to be host
cities.
They`re not going -- they`re going to be excluded from that process
if they have those laws on the books.
O`DONNELL: And, Stuart, it has implications beyond just the host
countries. It has implications for countries who can never hope to host
because they don`t have the infrastructure, the ability to handle something
like that.
Because of the compliance with the Olympic Charter, and what the
Olympic Charter, is that, quote, "Belonging to the Olympic movement
requires compliance with the Olympic Charter and recognition by the IOC."
And so, this has implications for countries with some Draconian Laws
that need to be -- that need to come into conformity with the Olympic
ruling on this.
MILK: Absolutely. This is a very significant addition to the
charter. It sends a very clear message. And it sends a message to all of
those nations that still codify discrimination into their laws.
O`DONNELL: And, I mean, there is -- not to make too much about that
Olympic Charter issue because what I -- as I understand it, what it means
is a country that is banned -- whose organization, Olympic organization, is
banned because of their failure to comply.
If you`re from that country, you could still compete independently at
the Olympics, so there`s a way through that. There`s still a hole there.
That`s something they could tighten up.
MILK: That`s definitely something they can tighten up, the gender
identity piece is something that they can tighten up. But make no mistake
about it.
I want to go back to, you know, Lawrence, your challenge to IOC
Executive Committee member, Anita DeFrantz, on, you know -- on what this
really means, and just having a blind faith in a country saying they`re not
going to discriminate.
And this sends a message saying, you know, there`s no blind faith
anymore. You cannot discriminate and be part, be a host country or a host
city.
O`DONNELL: Stuart, it definitely seems they were listening.
(LAUGHTER)
MILK: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you very much for joining us tonight, really
appreciate it. And thanks for bringing it to my attention today with that
tweet.
MILK: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.
END
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THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
December 8, 2014
Guest: Joe Wilson, Mieke Eoyang, Charles Ogletree, Cedric Alexander, John
Wisniewski, Stuart Milk
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, I think that was your bluest
material yet, as the old Catskills comedians used to call it, working blue
with Rachel Maddow.
RACHEL MADDOW, "TRMS" HOST: Yes, I don`t make this stuff up. I have
to go apologize to my mom now. Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.
Well, U.S. Marines have been put on alert in anticipation of the
release tomorrow morning of a Senate report on the CIA`s use of torture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The imminent release of the so-called Senate
torture report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials in the White House panicked, that it
may incite violence abroad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Embassies in Cairo and other capitals are on
alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us about the report coming out?
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Oh, not now. I will tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The report is expected to accuse the CIA of
lying to Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big CIA secrets about torture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not going to come as a surprise to anybody
in that part of the world.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We did some things that
were wrong. We tortured some folks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The country was in no way ready to come to grips
with the torture that took place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is a terrible idea.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: Whatever the report says --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re the bad guys sometimes.
BUSH: -- if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is
way off base.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That begs (ph) the imagination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only hardened the Democrats` resolve to go
public.
FEINSTEIN: I make comments on the floor tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Vice President Dick Cheney told "The New
York Times" any idea that the CIA misled the White House is, quote, "a
crock".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we had not engaged in torture, there would be
no issue here to begin with.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: This report so about making sure that
people understand what happened so it doesn`t happen again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, U.S. embassies worldwide are on alert. And 2,000
Marines have been placed on alert in and around the Persian Gulf and the
Mediterranean to respond to any potential threat against Americans after
the release of a Senate Intelligence Committee report tomorrow morning that
will detail the interrogation methods used by the CIA on prisoners after
9/11.
Secretary of State John Kerry spoke with Senator Dianne Feinstein, the
chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee Friday night to discuss the
timing of the release and whether it could incite retaliation against
Americans. A leaked version of the report`s conclusion says the CIA
systematically misled or lied to the White House and Congress about its
techniques and oversold the techniques` efficacy in getting useful
intelligence.
The full classified report is actually 6,000 pages. Tomorrow, only
the 600-page executive summary will be released, eight months after the
committee voted to declassify it.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney didn`t need to read a single line of
that report to determine that the report is, quote, "a bunch of hooey."
Cheney told "The New York Times", quote, "When we had that program in place
we kept the country safe from any more mass casualty attacks. If I had to
do it all over again, I would do it."
Former President George W. Bush spoke in defense of the CIA over the
weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We`re fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA,
serving on our behalf. These are patriots and whatever the report says, if
it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base.
And I knew the directors. I knew the deputy directors. You know, I
knew a lot of the operators. These are good people, really good people.
And we`re lucky as a nation to have them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Tonight, Republican members of the Senate Intelligence
Committee, Senators Marco Rubio and Jim Risch questioned the wisdom of
releasing the report, something they did not vote for. Quote, "It is
unconscionable that the committee and the White House would support
releasing this report despite warnings from our allies, the U.S. State
Department and a new document assessing the increased risk to the United
States the release of this report poses."
But Democratic Senator Ron Wyden, also on the Senate Intelligence
Committee, told NBC`s Andrea Mitchell that the risks are not new.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WYDEN: There are some around the world who are already angry at the
United States because torture was used in the past. This report doesn`t
change that. I think when the American people hear about topics like this,
they want the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining me now is a former ambassador, Joe Wilson, and
Mieke Eoyang, a former House Intelligence Committee staffer and former
defense policy adviser to Senator Edward Kennedy.
Joe Wilson, the -- we have seen, in the past, outrage on different
sides of the aisle over different potential exposures of the CIA, including
in your case when your wife was revealed by the Republican White House,
George W. Bush`s administration to be working in the CIA. There was an
awful lot of outrage about how that could be released at all. What are the
general principles for what the CIA should be able to keep secret, must
keep secret and what should not be secret?
AMB. JOE WILSON, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO GABON: Well, certainly the case
of sources and methods and personalities, the covert operators should be
kept secret and out of the public eye. But in this case, one of the
enduring features of American democracy and one of the things that really
appeals to people who live in dictatorships is the fact that we`re willing
to confront our foibles when we commit errors as we obviously did in --
against international law and our own domestic law in conducting this
torture program.
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, what`s your reaction to the release of this
report, a decision to release it?
MIEKE EOYANG, FORMER HOUSE INTEL CMTE STAFF: I think this decision
has been a long time coming. The administration has been working with the
committee for eight months to redact sensitive information and had a chance
to air its concerns about the timing of the release, the security that
might be necessary with that. And this was an extensive investigation.
Five years, 6,000 pages, career investigators.
They put a lot of time and effort into this, and Dianne Feinstein,
who`s been a staunch supporter of the intelligence community, is the person
who is most likely give them a fair shake at this.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the House chairman of the
Intelligence Committee has said about this, Mike Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), INTELLIGENCE CMTE CHAIRMAN: I think this is
a terrible idea. Our foreign partners are telling us this will cause
violence and deaths. Our foreign leaders approach the government and said
if you do this, this will cause violence and deaths. Our own intelligence
community has assessed that this will cause violence and deaths. Think of
the cartoons in Denmark and how many people died as a result. Think of the
burning of the Korans and how many people died as a result. They will use
this to incite violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joe Wilson, what`s your reaction to that?
WILSON: They should have thought of that before they issued the
documents authorizing this. And it`s not just the CIA. I read Jose
Rodriguez` piece in the "Washington Post", which strikes me as a banality
of evil, but he does make a good point that his political masters, the
extent to which they are not included in this CIA report is probably
inadequate, and I would begin with Dick Cheney and George Bush himself and
go right down the line, Scooter Libby, David Addington, his lawyer, Alberto
Gonzalez, and everybody who signed off on these authorizations for
something that is against every international treaty obligation that we
have made on the particular subject. The U.N. Convention on Human Rights,
the U.N. Convention on Torture, the Geneva Convention, all of which has
standing as U.S. law in addition to the international treaty commitments.
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, there are a number of reasons for keeping
information classified and there`s plenty of information even around this
subject that will remain classified as a result of this report. Where
would you draw the line in a situation like this about what should be
classified, what shouldn`t, and how would you weigh what Congressman Rogers
is saying about the potential risk to Americans of releasing the
information.
EOYANG: So, one of the things that you want to keep classified are
the identities of covert agents. You do that for their protection and the
protection of the people who work with them. And the administration has
been working closely with the committee to make sure that those identities
are kept secret.
The other thing, though, when you look at what should be released,
this is a review of the techniques that were used. It`s fundamentally
different than the circumstances that Chairman Rogers is talking about.
The burning of the Koran, the Danish cartoons. Those were slights to Islam
itself. What we`re talking about here in this report are slights to our
own values as Americans where we fell below a standard that we have set in
international treaties and that the president and Lindsey Graham and John
McCain have all agreed is wrong.
It`s very difficult to see ISIS grabbing the moral high ground on this
and complaining about waterboarding and sleep deprivation when they`ve been
beheading people.
O`DONNELL: So, Mieke, are you saying that you don`t expect any, that
there actually isn`t a risk to American life that should be considered in
this release?
EOYANG: It`s certainly a very volatile region and I would certainly
say there`s no risk whatsoever. It`s always good to be cautious and put
people on alert. But what I think what we`re talking about here and what
we`ve seen in the history is the reaction to the violence that ensues is
because of slights and insults to the religion, not to the same reactions
we had to Abu Ghraib or Haditha or what I would expect with this report.
O`DONNELL: So, Joe Wilson, so if one of the principles is protection
of life of CIA agents, CIA assets so we don`t ever name the agents in order
to protect their lives, what Congressman Rogers is saying, there are other
lives at stake here in the release of this information and do we have an
obligation to protect those lives in the same way that we have the
obligation to use classified cover to protect agents` lives?
WILSON: Well, I think as was said earlier, the fact that we`re
putting people on alert is a good cautionary note, not to be out and about
perhaps tomorrow. But I agree the fact that we`re releasing a report that
faults our own techniques is going to cause any violence against Americans
is the techniques themselves used on people that have pissed off the entire
region against us.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the president said about why this
should be released.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Even before I came into
office, I was very clear that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we did
some things that were wrong. We did a whole lot of things that were right.
But we tortured some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our
values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, do we have any precedent in our history for
this kind of release of looking at things we`ve done in war or other
situations and decided we shouldn`t just stop it, we shouldn`t just stop
doing it, we should also release all the information we have about how we
did it?
EOYANG: Absolutely. In fact, the military has a very strong history
of after-action reviews in all kinds of circumstances. You saw that in the
My Lai massacre. You saw this in the Church and Pike Commissions about the
intelligence community.
We have seen over and over again the history of America learning from
its mistakes, deciding what it will and will not do going forward and being
an example to the rest of the world about its willingness to admit when
it`s done things that are contrary to our values. It`s part of who we are
as Americans.
O`DONNELL: Ambassador Joe Wilson and Mieke Eoyang, thank you both
very much for joining me tonight.
EOYANG: Thank you.
WILSON: Thanks very much, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, more protests, of course, tonight, against excessive use of
force by police. And this evening, President Obama added some more
comments about the grand juries` decision in New York and in the Eric
Garner case. That`s coming up next.
And we have reports tonight that members of Governor Chris Christie`s
administration could soon be indicted as a result of a federal
investigation of the lane closures at the George Washington Bridge.
And, Vladimir Putin`s hard line against gays at the Olympics in Russia
may have backfired. Stuart Milk will join me to explain a big win for the
LGBT rights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: You know, the verdict was hard to understand. You know, I
hadn`t seen all the details. But it`s sad that race continues to play such
a, you know, kind of an emotional divisive part of life. It calls into
question what needs to be done to heal -- to get the country united again.
But no question, and as Condi mentioned and I agree, there`s been
tremendous progress based on race, but I think these incidents show there
needs to be more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A couple of royals went to a NBA game tonight in Brooklyn,
but their presence was overshadowed by NBA players` protests over the NYPD
killing of Eric Garner. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: You`re looking at images of protests in New York City
tonight, earlier tonight, protesting the grand jury decision not to indict
a New York City police officer in the death of Eric Garner. Also tonight,
more than 100 protesters gathered outside the Barclays Center where the
Brooklyn Nets are playing the Cleveland Cavaliers, protesting inside before
the game were NBA stars like LeBron James and Darren Williams who wore "I
can`t breathe" t-shirts.
Here`s what President Obama said tonight about the protests on BET.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think there are a lot of good, well-meaning people. I think
a lot of police officers who might have looked at that and said, you know,
that is a tragedy what happened, and we`ve got to figure out what happened,
how to bring an end to these kinds of tragedies. But then, attention spans
move on, right? There`s next thing. There`s some international crisis.
Something that happens here, and change doesn`t really occur. And the
value of peaceful protests, activism, organizing, is, it reminds the
society, this is not yet done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman
formally requested Governor Andrew Cuomo immediately issue an interim
executive order, quote, "directing the office of the attorney general to
investigate and if necessary prosecute cases involving unarmed civilians
killed by police officers."
He said this to Chris Hayes this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN, NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is very
dangerous to have the people of a city or a state feel that they can`t
trust the police. They have to come forward as witnesses. They have to
trust their police officers, the NYPD is a great department, we have a
great commissioner making reforms.
But all across America, people are asking the question, how do we
ensure that there`s an independent arbiter when there are accusations as
something serious as death caused by a police officer acting in the line of
duty. I think this is just a step towards restoring confidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining me now is Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree,
and Dr. Cedric Alexander, public safety director for DeKalb County,
Georgia, and president of the National Organization of Black Law
Enforcement Executives.
Professor Ogletree, does the attorney general of the state of New York
actually need an order from the governor to do this? Couldn`t he actually
look, examine these cases through his own civil rights division?
CHARLES OGLETREE, LAW PROF., HARVARD UNIV.: He could do it, but I
think he`s trying to make sure he`s going through the right process. And I
have to say that what he`s doing makes a lot of sense to talk to the black
officers in particular, to talk about what they`ve been going through, what
they`ve been experiencing.
You know, I have been a big fan of NOBLE ever since it was created,
and I think it`s important to have an organization of black police
officers, but I think a lot of people are feeling conflicted now. On the
one hand, they want to enforce the law, the want to serve the people, but
they`re seeing over and over again, African-American men choked to death
like Eric Garner, people shot and killed like Michael Brown. And they`re
saying, you know what, we have to do something in the force.
I love to meet with them. I love to meet with NOBLE. I love to have
this conversation with black police officers to talk about -- they have to
be police officers, but what we have to do to make the kids think about law
enforcement as a career that they want to pursue.
O`DONNELL: Cedric Alexander, the perfect introduction to you right
there from professor Ogletree. What is the black police officers` role in
both policy-making here going forward and this discussion?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATL. ORG. OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXEC.: Well,
let me tell you what NOBLE`s role is, ever since 1976 when noble stood up
as an organization. And it stood up just for issues that we`re still
confronted with today 40 years ago. Noble has played a very clear and
important role in terms of helping move human rights and justice for all
people.
In terms of Dr. Ogletree, I certainly do welcome a conversation with
you around this subject matter, because for many police officers of color,
particularly African-American, it certainly can be a challenge in terms of
what we`re seeing. But the reality of it is -- it`s a very difficult
convoluted situation we`re dealing with here today. Officers across this
country, both black and white, there are many, the greatest majority of
them doing a tremendous job out here protecting and serving every day.
But we have an outcry from a much larger community that is saying to
all of us, this is not just about police. This is about, really, a
criminal justice system itself, in a broad sense that`s at question here,
Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Now, I think we can agree, no president has ever had more
to say about these issues than President Obama has. There have been very
controversial killings by police during every presidency, most of them
ignored by the White House.
Let`s listen to something the president said tonight on BET about how
he understands it can be frustrating for some people that he isn`t more
forceful about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Part of what I think is so heartbreaking and frustrating for a
lot of folks when they watch this is the recognition that simply by virtue
of color you`ve got less margin for error. That`s true -- particularly
true for black boys.
I want my grandsons to be treated like anybody else`s grandsons. If
they`re messing up, I think they should be corrected. They`ll first be
corrected by me, or their mother or their father. But I don`t want them to
be -- to be subjected to the kind of constant bias that makes them feel as
if this is not their home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was actually a different part of the interview, but
I`m glad we heard it.
Professor Ogletree, you`ve known President Obama sense he was one of
your law students. You know the man. You know the father. And he`s now
thinking about what life might be like for him as a grandfather and the
possibility of having grandsons, and what this means to them.
OGLETREE: I think that`s very important. I think that this president
has done a great job of trying to make people understand that he`s the
president of all America. He happens to be black. But he`s a president
not of black America but all of America.
Having said that, he has been watching what I`ve been watching --
death after death after death by young African-American boys dying at the
hands of white police officers, and that has to stop.
And he has grand -- he has children. I have children and
grandchildren, and I talk to them the say way, that they have to be
careful. They have to do things that I had to do, learn from my
grandfather and father, to be careful to not intimidate police officers or
make them think because you`re black, you can`t go into a department store,
you can`t go behind a car. You can`t go into certain places.
That has to change. We`re in the year 2014. We have to change our
views about race and about police. We need more police officers, and I am
absolutely in support of that, but we also need them to be trained in a way
that their first duty as the former Police Chief Lee P. Brown said is to be
involved in community policing and not be involved in shooting, killing and
arresting black men as their first prerogative.
O`DONNELL: Community policing was actually invented in Boston in the
1950s when they first allowed Irish police officers. The big criminal
element in the city at that time was the Irish. And without the Irish,
police force eventually taking over. It`s not clear how that problem would
have been tamed, the criminal elements of that population.
Cedric Alexander, I have reminded police audiences in various times
over the years and I`ve spoken to them about this very issue and the value
and the history of community policing. It`s not a new idea.
ALEXANDER: No, it`s not a new idea. In fact, it has been around for
a very long time. But, of course, it`s a loss a lot of what it has meant
over the years.
And I think the other problem that existed, too, very early on is that
police officers would hear the term community-oriented policing and not
know what it means. But let me say this -- over the last 30 or 40 year, we
truly have seen differences between police and community relations. Good
in many ways, but yet, still, many parts of this country still very much
challenged.
So, I hear everyone talk about the problem. But the real issue here,
Lawrence is this, is that we`re going to have to come up with strategies or
we`re just going to continue to have this conversation. And I think one of
the first things we have to do in terms of strategies, what I want to focus
on, because we all know what the problem is.
We got to start making sure that our elected officials, our appointed
officials, our community leaders, particularly right now in this point in
time in American history, start talking to each other about what the
challenges are.
We`re not going to be able to talk this away. We`re going to have to
strategize it away, and it`s going to take a while for that to happen. But
here, again, we must look at the entire criminal justice system as it
relates to the issues that we`re seeing that`s involving white officers and
young black kids and the history, the history of all this.
O`DONNELL: Cedric Alexander and Charles Ogletree, thank you very much
for sharing your wisdom and experience with these issues. Thank you.
ALEXANDER: Thank you for having me.
OGLETREE: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, the first woman in Congress is the only person
who voted against two consecutive declarations of war. That`s in the
"Rewrite" tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: If you were the U.S. Attorney, would
you think that there`s anything to be investigated, and would you bring any
changes?
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: As I`ve said many times, when I
was U.S. Attorney, I hated when politicians stood behind a podium and said,
"This is what the U.S. Attorney should or shouldn`t do."
And I`m not going to engage in that kind of conduct at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: WNBC is reporting that Paul Fishman, the U.S. Attorney for
New Jersey is expected to file multiple charges in the federal
investigation into the George Washington Bridge lane closures.
Also, according to WNBC, one of the people involved in the bridge
closures is telling friends of an expected indictment. Today, the New
Jersey Legislative Committee that is investigating the lane closures
released its interim report on the George Washington lane closures to the
public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LORETTA WEINBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: Laws were potentially broken.
Bridget Kelly`s instruction to Christina Renna to delete an e-mail, they
had violated the witness tampering statutes in New Jersey.
Similarly, 12 text messages exchanged between the governor and a top
administration official, Regina Egea, during the testimony of port
authority officials before an assembly committee, were apparently deleted
by both parties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The 136-page report finds that David Wildstein implemented
the lane closures after getting the e-mail, quote, "time for some traffic
in Fort Lee," end quote, the e-mail that we will all memorize that was from
Bridget Kelly.
The report also finds, quote, "At present, there is no conclusive
evidence as to whether Governor Chris Christie was or was not aware of the
lane closures either in advance of their implementation or
contemporaneously as they were occurring, nor is there conclusive evidence
as to whether Governor Christie did or did not have involvement in
implementing or directing the lane closures."
"Nevertheless, according to Michael Drewniak`s testimony, Wildstein
has claimed that he informed the governor of the lane closures at a 9/11
memorial observance that the two attended."
"While the committee currently has no means to independently evaluate
Wildstein`s reported statement, the statement, as well as the current lack
of information from Wildstein, Kelly , Steppe and others, leaves open the
question of when the governor first learned of the closures and what he was
told."
Joining me now is New Jersey Assemblyman John Wisniewski, who is the
co-chair of the legislative committee investigating the George Washington
Bridge lane closures.
So, the question of what did the governor know and when did he know it
is not conclusively determined by your interim report?
JOHN WISNIEWSKI, NEW JERSEY ASSEMBLYMAN: Not yet. There are lots of
unanswered questions. And, I think, what this report best shows is that
despite a lot of work by this committee, there are witnesses that have not
been available to us.
And, therefore, there are unanswered questions. It is too early to
say, conclusively, that the governor had no involvement, or that he had
involvement.
O`DONNELL: So, the federal investigation actually has kind of kept
some of these witnesses away because of legal jeopardy and so forth. I
want to get to that thing -- the point that Senator Weinberg was mentioning
about the deleted -- you have found some texts --
WISNIEWSKI: Twelve text messages.
O`DONNELL: -- twelve texts that the governor deleted. Tell us about
that.
WISNIEWSKI: During the testimony almost a year ago that the Executive
Director of the Port Authority provided to the Transportation Committee,
the governor, who is now Chief of Staff, listened to the testimony.
And she said that she only had one text communication with the
governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
It turns out there were 12. It started with the governor texting her.
She responded. And it was a running dialogue, it appears, during that day
of testimony.
Coincidentally, now that the committee is asking for these records of
text messages, both the governor and the governor`s chief of staff have
simultaneously deleted these messages.
O`DONNELL: Do you know when they were deleted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WISNIEWSKI: We don`t know when they`re deleted. And they can`t tell
us when they`re deleted. And that`s all the more troubling.
O`DONNELL: When you say, "They can`t tell us," you`ve asked the
governor, "When did you delete these messages?"
WISNIEWSKI: We`ve asked through his counsel and they said that they
were deleted in the ordinary course of business, whatever that means.
But what`s troubling is people have said Bridget Kelly may have
violated the law because she tried to delete --
O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.
WISNIEWSKI: -- an e-mail that we would have been interested in.
Similarly, we would have been interested in seeing these text messages if,
for no other reason, than to corroborate the story we`ve been given that
there was nothing there.
O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.
WISNIEWSKI: But, interestingly enough, before we get a chance to look
at it, they get deleted.
That raises some very suspicious, you know, circumstances here about
why would they both delete it. I could see if one person deletes and the
other one doesn`t.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
But they both deleted them. That`s troubling.
O`DONNELL: This report today is an interim report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Will you wait for the federal investigation to be over to try to
resume to get what would then be the full report.
WISNIEWSKI: Well, I think you addressed it very adequately that we
did not want to interfere with the U.S. Attorney`s investigation, so we
couldn`t call people.
When that investigation is concluded, there will be people,
potentially, that have no involvement going forward. Our committee can
then pick up its work and not worry about jeopardizing their work.
But there`s lots of people, there`s probably upwards of eight or 10
individuals that we would like to hear from, that we`ve refrain from
calling those people.
Some of them are right at the center of the controversy -- Bridget
Kelly, David Wildstein, others less so. But they all have relevant
information, or may have relevant information that we need to get to.
O`DONNELL: Now, in the possibility of indictments, and we don`t have
anything near definitive on the possibility of indictments now -- there`s
just one report through WNBC, very reliable reporters involved -- but in
the event of indictments, that could then delay your investigation for a
very significant period of time because those witnesses will be off into
the criminal judicial process for what could be years.
WISNIEWSKI: Yes. For those witnesses, our potential witnesses that
may be the subject of an indictment or other process by the U.S. Attorney`s
Office, it`s very likely that we won`t be able to really pursue them for
some time.
But there, again, maybe others who are not on the receiving end of
that kind of process who may be freed up. It really is a situational thing
that we`ll have to take day by day and see what unfolds. It`s too early to
predict what may happen.
O`DONNELL: Now, Chris Christie is going to say, "Look, here`s the
report. They found nothing. There`s nothing there."
WISNIEWSKI: But we didn`t find nothing. We found a lot. We found
that there was an effort to close these lane, there was a cover-up.
And then there was an effort to cover up the cover-up. I mean,
clearly, what we don`t know is who gave Bridget Kelly the belief that she
should close these lanes.
Who gave David Wildstein the authority to act in the fashion he did.
Why were these text messages deleted. Why did Bridget Kelly try to delete
an e-mail.
These were all very suspicious circumstances. But without having the
opportunity to talk to some of the people at the heart of it, we won`t get
to the answers right away.
O`DONNELL: Assemblyman John Wisniewski, thank you very much for
joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.
Coming up next, exactly one member of Congress voted against the
United States entering World War I and World War II. And she is in
tonight`s "Rerun."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, NBC HOST: Let`s take a look at the pros and cons of
William and Kate visiting New York City. Here we go.
Pro, they`re second in line to the throne. Con, they`re 300th in line
to "Mama Mia."
(LAUGHTER)
Very popular show.
STEVE HIGGINS, THE TONIGHT SHOW ANNOUNCER: Very popular show, very
popular.
FALLON: Pro, having afternoon tea with the mayor. Con, having
morning Chardonnay with Hoda and Kathie Lee.
(LAUGHTER)
It`s a tradition. They have to do it.
(LAUGHTER)
Pro, seeing the naked cowboy in Times Square. Con, realizing it`s
actually Prince Harry. Oh, really. He`s fun. He likes to have a good
time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Coming up, a big LGBT Rights victory today. And the
"Rewrite" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
On this day in history, this very day, the United States Congress
voted to enter World War II, declaring war on Japan the day after Japanese
Military attack on the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbor.
The vote came after an emergency address to a joint session of
Congress by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, 32ND U.S. PRESIDENT: Yesterday,
December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy, the United States of
America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by a naval and air forces of
the Empire of Japan.
With confidence in our Armed Forces, with the unbounding determination
of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us
God.
(APPLAUSE)
I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and
dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7th, 1941, a state of war has
existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The vote on the Declaration of War in the Senate was
unanimous. And in the House of Representatives, it was 388 in favor, one
opposed. The one vote against war was cast by Jeanette Rankin of Montana
when she tried to gain recognition to speak on the House Floor, Speaker Sam
Rayburn of Texas refused and declared her out of order.
The "Associated Press" said that Jeanette Rankin`s vote against the
war was met with a chorus of, quote, "hisses and boos." When she left the
House Chamber, the scene was chaotic.
She had to hide in a phone booth to avoid spectators who condemned her
vote and she was finally escorted back to her office by the Capitol Police.
She publicly explained her vote by saying, "As a woman, I can`t go to
war and I refuse to send anybody else." Privately, she told friends, "I
have nothing left but my integrity."
Her brother sent her a telegram from Montana, saying, "Montana is a
hundred percent against you."
Jeanette Rankin chose not to run for reelection. Jeanette Rankin
served only two terms in the House of Representatives and they were not
consecutive.
She was first elected just in time to vote on the Declaration of War
for World War I and was sworn in with the new Congress on April 2nd, 1917,
whereupon, Jeanette Rankin became the first, the very first and only woman
member of the United States House of Representatives.
Montana was then one of the few enlightened states that allowed women
the right to vote before a Constitutional Amendment allowed all American
women the right to vote.
Having run as a pacifist, it wasn`t so surprising when she voted
against the Declaration of War for World War I. And she wasn`t alone, 50
Members of the House voted against it.
She said then, "If they are going to have war, they ought to take the
old men and leave the young to propagate the race."
When President Woodrow Wilson asked Congress for that Declaration of
War on Germany, he said it was, quote, "to make the world safe for
democracy."
Congresswoman Rankin used those words when urging the House of
Representatives to vote for a Constitutional Amendment, granting women in
every state the right to vote.
She said on the House Floor, "How shall we explain to them the meaning
of democracy if the same Congress that voted to make the world safe for
democracy refuses to give this small measure of democracy to the women of
our country."
Nearly three years later, in 1920, the 19th Constitutional Amendment
was ratified and, finally, women in every state had the right to vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
In the last months of her life in 1973, Jeanette Rankin was
considering another run for a House seat to protest the Vietnam War.
There is a Jeanette Rankin statue in the House of Representatives not
because she is the only member of Congress to vote against Declarations of
War for both World Wars but because she was the first woman member of
Congress.
When she won that first Congressional election 98 years ago, Jeanette
Rankin said, quote, "I may be the first woman member of Congress but I
won`t be the last."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Last Monday night, I reintroduced you the K.I.N.D. Fund, Kids in Need
of Desks, the partnership that I created with UNICEF to provide desks for
African schools, desks that are built in Malawi by African workers, thereby
creating jobs in Africa, and then delivered to schools in Africa where they
have never had desks, where students have never seen desks.
It`s something I talk about every year at this time. It is the
permanent cause of this show.
We then spent the rest of the week in Breaking News situations and
we`re not able to get back to update you on the progress of the K.I.N.D.
Fund.
In the course of that week, without me saying another word about it,
you have contributed another $250,892 for the K.I.N.D. Fund. That`s for
kids -- for desks in kids` schools, and for the other part of the program
that we have, which is providing tuitions -- high school tuitions for girls
-- girls` education being a particular challenge in Malawi and other
African countries.
The total that you have contributed so far since we started this
program is $7,867,657. Thank you very much for that.
If you would like to learn more about the K.I.N.D. Fund, you can
always go to LASTWORDDESKS.MSNBC.COM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A year ago on this program, Stuart Milk of the Harvey Milk Foundation
first called on the International Olympic Committee to change its policy
regarding host countries` discrimination against the LGBT community.
Today, --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
-- the International Olympic Committee unanimously approved 40
changes, including the addition of sexual orientation to the Olympic
Charter`s Anti-discrimination Clause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Joining me now is Stuart Milk, the President of the Harvey Milk
Foundation. And, Stuart, I have to tell you, the way I discovered this
today is I saw your tweet, announcing it and making reference to having
talked about it a year ago on this program.
And I said to the staff, "Let`s get Stuart on." This is -- this took
a year but it seems like there`s definitely -- this is one of the benefits
that came out of what the world-watched Vladimir Putin doing during the
Russian Olympics.
STUART MILK, PRESIDENT, HARVEY MILK FOUNDATION: Absolutely. And,
first of all, I`m glad that someone reads my tweets.
And, secondly, you know, I really think that it was here, on this
show, when our friend, Anita DeFrantz, was challenged by Lawrence
O`Donnell when she said that she has no choice but to believe Russia when
they said that they would allow Pride House and not discriminate.
Unfortunately, they were proven wrong. You challenged them. And,
today, they came full circle in terms of putting that into not only the
Charter but into host city contracts, that there can be no discrimination
in those cities on the basis of sexual orientation.
And it`s really a historic day. And it`s amazing that it`s come in
just a year, although we still have work to do because we don`t know for
sure where our transgender brothers and sisters fit into that.
They have said that it`s included in the "and other" phrase of the
Non-Discrimination Policy. But make no mistake about it.
This sends a huge message to countries that discriminate on the basis
of sexual orientation, that they are not going to be able to bid to be host
cities.
They`re not going -- they`re going to be excluded from that process
if they have those laws on the books.
O`DONNELL: And, Stuart, it has implications beyond just the host
countries. It has implications for countries who can never hope to host
because they don`t have the infrastructure, the ability to handle something
like that.
Because of the compliance with the Olympic Charter, and what the
Olympic Charter, is that, quote, "Belonging to the Olympic movement
requires compliance with the Olympic Charter and recognition by the IOC."
And so, this has implications for countries with some Draconian Laws
that need to be -- that need to come into conformity with the Olympic
ruling on this.
MILK: Absolutely. This is a very significant addition to the
charter. It sends a very clear message. And it sends a message to all of
those nations that still codify discrimination into their laws.
O`DONNELL: And, I mean, there is -- not to make too much about that
Olympic Charter issue because what I -- as I understand it, what it means
is a country that is banned -- whose organization, Olympic organization, is
banned because of their failure to comply.
If you`re from that country, you could still compete independently at
the Olympics, so there`s a way through that. There`s still a hole there.
That`s something they could tighten up.
MILK: That`s definitely something they can tighten up, the gender
identity piece is something that they can tighten up. But make no mistake
about it.
I want to go back to, you know, Lawrence, your challenge to IOC
Executive Committee member, Anita DeFrantz, on, you know -- on what this
really means, and just having a blind faith in a country saying they`re not
going to discriminate.
And this sends a message saying, you know, there`s no blind faith
anymore. You cannot discriminate and be part, be a host country or a host
city.
O`DONNELL: Stuart, it definitely seems they were listening.
(LAUGHTER)
MILK: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you very much for joining us tonight, really
appreciate it. And thanks for bringing it to my attention today with that
tweet.
MILK: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.
END
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'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Monday, December 8th, 2014
Read the transcript to the Monday show