updated 1/7/2011 12:46:51 PM ET 2011-01-07T17:46:51

Guests: Howard Dean, Luis Gutierrez, Amy Holmes, Bill Press, Robert

Greenwald, Roy Sekoff

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC ANCHOR:  Good evening, Americans, and welcome to THE ED SHOW tonight from New York.

These stories are hitting “My Hot Buttons” at this hour 

President Obama names a new chief of staff.  We‘ll get reaction, including what Nancy Pelosi told me in an exclusive radio interview earlier today. 

Former DNC Chair Howard Dean is here to say whether the White House shakeup should be an opportunity to connect with the liberal base. 

We are seeing what health care in America would be like under Republican control.  Insurance companies hiking rates by 60 percent, transplant candidates dying because of extremist budget cuts.  And the Congressional Budget Office says the GOP repeal plan would add $230 billion to the deficit. 

Mr. Boehner, are you listening? 

Commentary coming up.

And folks, this is not a joke.  Michele Bachmann has been named to the House Intelligence Committee. 

I think she is serious about running in 2012, not for the congressional district, but for the White House.  The Huffington Post‘s Roy Sekoff weighs in on that tonight.

And some of Boehner‘s boys, they‘re off to a pretty rocky start in the House.  They voted without having taken the oath of office.  And that, my friends, is against the Constitution they claim to love. 

We‘ve got all of that coming up. 

But the hot story off of the top, the story that has me fired up, is President Obama, I think, has a golden opportunity to make things right with the base. 

Today, he announced his new choice for chief of staff, former Clinton Commerce Secretary Bill Daley.  Here‘s the president. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  Today I am proud to announce the appointment of an experienced public servant, a devoted patriot, my friend, fellow Chicagoan, Bill Daley, to serve as my chief of staff.   

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Now, the president is getting a mixed review, mixed response for choosing Daley.  On my radio show today, former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi told me she trusts the president‘s judgment. 

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER:  My confidence is with the president of the United States.  If his confidence is with Bill Daley, who is a fine person—you know, I know that he‘s made some statements that some of us have not been happy with, but I really do think that looking at the total picture, the president is the president.  His re-election is essential to the success of our country. 

If he has confidence in Bill Daley, that‘s OK with me. 

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Howard Dean made a similar statement about Daley.  He joins us in just a few moments. 

Not everyone in the Democratic base is on board with the pick of the president choosing Mr. Daley.  The PCCC jumped over his statement in the statement early on today: “This was a real mistake by the White House.  Bill Daley consistently urges the Democratic Party to pursue a corporate agenda that alienates both Independent and Democratic voters.  If President Obama listens to that kind of political advice from Bill Daley, Democrats will suffer a disastrous 2012.”

Some liberals view Daley as the guy who was way too close to big business, because, of course he was one of the main architects of NAFTA.  Labor doesn‘t like that.  And because of his work for JPMorgan Chase. 

President Obama is obviously trying to patch up his relationship with the business community in this country before 2012, and get people talking about how good of a direction we actually are moving in.  Earlier this month, well, later this—well, he is scheduled to speak with the U.S.  Chamber of Commerce.  The president and the CEO of that group, Tom Donohue, praised the Daley pick today. 

“Bill Daley is a man of stature.  We look forward to working with him to accelerate our recovery, grow the economy, create jobs, and tackle America‘s global challenges.”

Hold it right there.  Now, this is the same Tom Donohue in the last election cycle that was just ripping into Democrats and the progressive agenda left and right, to the tune of millions of dollars of bankrolling a lot of candidates out there against the Democrats. 

I don‘t trust the Chamber of Commerce, folks.  And you shouldn‘t either. 

And I have some reservations about Mr. Daley.  He‘s got some proving to do. 

But I think a White House shakeup is long overdue.  Rahm Emanuel, well, who‘s ever going to forget about how “f‘ing retarded” we have been called on the left.  And Robert Gibbs, can we say that we had a rocky relationship with the president‘s (ph) people, as connected to the base?  And I think that he needs to have some folks surround him who are going to be more focused on the real problem, and that is the Republicans, the people who are trying to take down this president. 

Nancy Pelosi thinks the Republicans will show the American people just how out of touch they are. 

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PELOSI:  I do think that we should sit back and let the country see what they are all about.  We have told people, but people don‘t believe that—they don‘t believe it.  They think that Medicare should wither on the vine and that Social Security has no place in a free society, but they‘re their own remarks.  You know, that‘s what they say. 

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  So, doesn‘t the new chief of staff kind of always be in the president‘s ear on what to say and where to go and what direction to take?  And I think that Mr. Daley is the guy that‘s going to have to keep the president focused on hammering Republicans on every move that they make over the next two years. 

But is that the job of a banker?  I mean, Rahm Emanuel—I mean, he was a political dude who had a lot of experience over there.  This guy comes from the administrative side.  Communications is going to be important, and Robert Gibbs‘ departure from the White House opens up another opportunity for the president to get someone to put the message on edge, a little sharpness to it. 

It‘s been reported he‘s considering Howard Dean‘s communations director, Karen Finney, to fill Gibbs‘ position.  The president could use some of Dean‘s magic, which, of course, helped the Democrats to huge victories in 2006 and 2008 with that 50-state strategy.  It was a key in giving the Democrats the majority, the majority they had until yesterday. 

I hear it on my radio show quite often.  A lot of liberals in this country think that there is a real void when it comes to messaging. 

How come we don‘t say it as good as the guys over there?  How come they always come up with the bullet points that seem to get repeated over and over and over again? 

It‘s not just the fact that they outgun us in the electronic media, it is a messaging issue.  And I guess you could ask the question, where is our Frank Luntz?  That‘s hard for me to say, folks. 

I know what the heck I‘m talking about, but I‘m not connected at the hip to the White House.  And I‘m not connect at the hip to the president.  If he were to ever ask me how to beat those—I‘d tell them. 

See, I didn‘t say that word tonight, did I?  But I‘m still thinking it. 

The president needs surrogates.  If this is what Gibbs is going to do, this is a great move.  But if Gibbs takes off and rides off into the sunset, and comes back with a book deal, and doesn‘t help this president fight these—then we‘re going to have some trouble, I think, because 2011 and 2012 is going to be all about the message. 

You just heard Nancy Pelosi say we‘re going to fight like crazy to save everything that we have accomplished as liberals in the last two years.  And what‘s Michele Bachmann doing today?  Well, she‘s going after the Wall Street reform. 

Later next week, they‘re going to vote on health care reform to set up the narrative when it fails in the Senate—it won‘t even be brought up in the Senate—that this is what it‘ all about.  You see, the Democrats are the obstructionists. 

Somebody from the White House with some chops is going to have to go out there on a daily basis—not every other week, but on a daily basis.  And I‘ll give you Exhibit A right here of what has unfolded in recent days. 

How many times, how many interviews have you seen with Darrell Issa in recent days, go out on all of the different networks and using the word “corrupt,” saying that the Obama administration is the most corrupt in American history, saying that President Obama is corrupt?  Where is the pushback other than here on MSNBC?  Where is the pushback? 

Somebody ought to be sprinting out of White House, getting in front the cameras, and just hammering this—yes.  This is going to be a fight for the ears and the minds of Americans to make sure that the facts don‘t get twisted, if you know what I mean. 

Tell us what you think in our telephone survey tonight.  The number to dial is 1-877-ED-MSNBC.

My question tonight is: Do you have faith President Obama‘s rocky relationship with the base will improve?  Press the number 1 for yes.  Press the number 2 for no.  And I‘ll bring you the results later on in the show. 

Joining me now is former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Governor Howard Dean, also the architect of the 50-state strategy for the Democrats which proved to be a big winner. 

Governor Dean, great to you have with us tonight.  Thanks so much for joining us on THE ED SHOW.

HOWARD DEAN, FMR. CHAIRMAN, DNC:  Thanks for having me back, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  You bet. 

All right.  William Daley—the critics on the left are out and about tonight saying that this is a corporate boardroom hire.  What‘s your take now on Bill Daley now being the chief of staff? 

DEAN:  I think that it‘s a good move.  It is true that he‘s more conservative.  Nobody would ever excuse Bill of being a progressive.  But he‘s a thoughtful guy, he‘s an adult. 

He treats people respectfully.  I don‘t think you‘ll see snide comments.  I think you‘ll see a lot of organization, a lot of forward looking in terms of planning. 

So I don‘t think it matters so much what somebody‘s ideology is in that office.  I think it does matter that they can relate to other parts of the party well. 

You know, I don‘t know him very well, but I have met with him a lot over the last 10 or 15 years.  I like him a lot.  I think he‘s a good guy and I think he‘s going to do a good job. 

SCHULTZ:  Do you think that he will represent the base to the p[resident?  I mean, there‘s a lot of liberals in this country, progressives, who worked hard for President Obama, that felt like their voice was never heard in the White House. 

Would he be the one to be that voice for the president? 

DEAN:  Probably not, but I think he would be willing to hear from progressives.  And I think he probably would seek some out, which would be good. 

You know, I think the president‘s not going to have any trouble understanding what it is that progressive Democrats believe we ought to have in this country.  What we don‘t want is to have what we‘ve had for the last two years, which is sort of a running, sniping battle going on between the progressive end of the party and the president.  That‘s not necessary. 

The president, I think, is as hard as a reformer.  We‘ve just got to get the White House on track, and then lower the temperature.  And that can be best be done with somebody who really approaches people with a sense of respect and interest, even if that interest doesn‘t necessarily coincide with what they believe. 

SCHULTZ:  Does it concern you that the Chamber of Commerce president, Mr.  Donohue, gives a ringing endorsement?  The Chamber spent millions trying to defeat Democrats in the last election cycle.

What do you make of that? 

DEAN:  I think the Chamber is basically a funding arm of the Republican Party, so I really think they‘re kind of irrelevant in the debate.  They can spend a lot of money. 

They haven‘t proved themselves to be positive contributors to the debate in any way.  There are a number of chambers around the country that are not paying dues to the American Chamber of Commerce anymore, a number of corporations have withdrawn.  So I don‘t really care what Tom Donohue thinks about Bill Daley, and I think it‘s irrelevant. 

We‘ve got to run the White House.  The Chamber has no interest in running the White House or doing anything good for the country. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, I mean, I think there are some that are  going to interpret an endorsement by Mr. Donohue as not a good hire by the president. 

DEAN:  Well, I think that you‘ve got to—you know, that I would disagree with.  Look, I don‘t agree with Bill Daley on a lot of issues, but I do respect him. 

SCHULTZ:  Yes. 

DEAN:  And I think that that matters a lot. 

And look, let me just say this—has Bill Daley worked for JPMorgan and some big banks that were involved in all the Wall Street mess?  Absolutely, he has.  But I don‘t think he was personally responsible for any of the decisions about the mortgages and the credit default swaps and all of those kinds of things. 

I know him because he has an outside-the-belt way political career.  It is also true that he was Bill Clinton‘s secretary of Commerce. 

I just don‘t see this as a recycling of a Clinton person.  I see this—I see Bill Daley as his own man from outside the beltway. 

Principally, he thinks like an outside-the-beltway guy.  It is true that he‘s business-oriented.  I don‘t think that that‘s any great sin. 

All I want in the White House from a progressive point of view is somebody who is willing to sit down, listen to us, talk to us, and be respectful.  And if we get that, I think that‘s going to help the president and I think it‘s going to help the country.  And I think that‘s what Bill Daley is. 

SCHULTZ:  We‘ll have more with Governor Dean at the bottom of the hour when we‘re talking about health care, the bill that the Republicans want to repeal. 

Coming up, Michele Bachmann is on the Intelligence Committee.  That‘s got to make you feel good.  She might be the last person I trust with national security secrets.  Roy Sekoff from “The Huffington Post,” he weighs in on that. 

And Bachmann‘s Tea Party buddy Steve King is vowing to change the 14th Amendment the very same day House Republicans spent your time and taxpayer dollars reading their version of the Constitution.  The righties think the Constitution is so sacred, well, they love it so much, they want to change it. 

Congressman Luis Gutierrez fighting back tonight on that story. 

Plus, Darrell Issa doesn‘t know what the word “corrupt” means.  We‘ll set him straight. 

You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Stay with us.  We‘re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW, and thanks for watching tonight. 

The new Congress bowed to Tea Party pressure and they read the entire Constitution on the House floor today.  I guess none of them went to school.  But as they were celebrating the Constitution, some of them were already violating it, like Republican Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas, and good old boy Mike Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania.  Well, they have already cast votes, but it turns out they were never sworn in. 

Folks, this is a clear violation of the Constitution.  Voting without being sworn in—and get this—the reason they were not sworn in yesterday was because, you see, they skipped the swearing-in ceremony, reportedly, for a fund-raiser they had inside the Capitol building. 

Is that business as usual, Mr. Boehner? 

This is so typical of the righties.  They wrap themselves up in the Constitution except when it‘s inconvenient for them.  These guys love the Constitution so much, they just can‘t wait to change it. 

So today, it was Congressman Steve King‘s turn.  He wants to get rid of this part of the Constitution --  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE KING ®, IOWA:  “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States, and of the state in where they reside. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Congressman King has introduced a bill to eliminate birth right citizenship, which, as you just heard, is a right guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.  These guys keep telling us that we need to get back to the Constitution, but they‘re more than happy to change it at a whim to fit them. 

Joining me new is Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois. 

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight. 

Is this just fraudulent?  Your thoughts? 

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS:  Well, let me just give you my first thought. 

They‘re for the Constitution, they‘re against the Constitution.  You know, you would have thought they‘d wait a week, two weeks after they read the Constitution, before attacking one of the bedrock elements of the Constitution. 

Ed, it‘s your guarantee and my guarantee of a lack of government intrusion, and one of our basic fundamental rights, and that‘s to our citizenship, to the fact that we‘re here.  But, you know, they don‘t really change, because they‘re for, let me see, little government when it comes to stopping the greed and lining their pockets on Wall Street.  But today, they‘re for big government when it comes to checking everybody‘s citizenship on that birth certificate. 

So I guess they‘re going to check every baby crib in America.  That‘s the kind of government they want.

And let‘s make it clear, because I think I know a little bit about the Constitution.  I don‘t know if I can recite it all, but I remember one part about changing the Constitution, and that it is that is takes two-thirds votes in the House and the Senate, and three-fourths of the states. 

So, you‘re right on point when you say why are they doing it?  It‘s for show.  It‘s to show people—it‘s to attack kids and babies, and to attack immigrants, because they think that‘s good politic, not good public policy. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, it clearly sets up the immigration debate, riles up the base, plays to the Tea Party crowd.  So what‘s the pushback here, other than to say they‘re a bunch of hypocrites?  This is something that‘s never going to go through the Senate. 

GUTIERREZ:  Right. 

SCHULTZ:  They can vote on it in the House, but it also, again, sets up the narrative, oh, the Democrats are the obstructionists.  We‘re really trying to do immigration reform, but they won‘t let us.

What do you think? 

GUTIERREZ:  Well, here—look, we need comprehensive immigration reform.  They should come to the table, and let‘s get it done, because we can secure our borders and make the American people safer. 

And you know what?  And give a modicum of respect to all workers in the United States, all of those that work hard, and sweat and toil in this country.  But that‘s not what they want to do.

They want to exploit the issue.  They want to exploit bigotry and prejudice, and to use those old tools. 

Look, remember—let me see—the confederates that were left over after the Civil War.  They put special laws on African-American and black slaves saying—but they said the 14th Amendment.  And then the Chinese, in 1880, well, their children, the ones who came here to work and build our railroads, their kids can‘t be citizens.  And then those that we put in internment camps from—Japanese during World War II, saying that those that were born there.

There‘s always been—this is a recycle.  Right, Ed? 

SCHULTZ:  Yes.

GUTIERREZ:  It‘s recycling hatred and bigotry and prejudice once again so you don‘t have to deal with the fundamental problems confronting the American people.  How about job creation -- 

SCHULTZ:  Yes. 

GUTIERREZ:  -- and getting people back to work so that we don‘t have to hate?  We can begin to heal our country and bring ourselves together. 

SCHULTZ:  Congressman Luis Gutierrez, thanks for telling it like it is tonight.  Appreciate your time.

GUTIERREZ:  Thank you. 

SCHULTZ:  Coming up, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels looks to be the newest Republican wannabe for 2012.  And based on what he‘s been saying, he fits right in with all the other crazies.  Daniels, he heads to “The Zone,” next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  And in “Psycho Talk” tonight, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels looks to be dipping his toe into the presidential waters as of late.  And like the rest of the Republican hopefuls, he‘s playing straight to the hard-right base. 

Now, let‘s remember, Daniels was George W. Bush‘s White House budget director, and was instrumental in pushing through the massive Bush tax cuts in the early 2000s.  But he insists the budget explosion wasn‘t his fault. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MITCH DANIELS ®, INDIANA:  Oh, you know, the nation went into a deficit then because the bubble burst and we had a recession.  And it wouldn‘t have mattered what policies you would try to implement.  We were going to have a great big reversal. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Now, it wouldn‘t have mattered which policies you implemented.  The biggest reason the economy is in the ditch today is because of the massive Bush tax cuts.  Right?  They weren‘t paid for. 

And Mitch was the architect behind that plan.  He swore up and down that that they would help the economy. 

Here he is on “Meet the Press” back in 2002. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIELS:  The tax cut gives us a chance for sustained economic growth.  If you have higher taxes on this economy, then the projections won‘t get stronger.  They‘re more likely to get weaker. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  All right.

Buddy, you were in denial then, and you are in denial now.  The deficit doubled on your watch. 

Now listen to how Mitch thinks we should solve the financial mess we‘re in today.  Here‘s what he told a “New York Times” reporter who were asked him how to fix Social Security.

“Clearly, retirement age, over time, younger people, I think, barring disasters, are going to live to possibly old ages.  They will live to be more than a 100.  They should.  They‘ll be replacing body parts like we do tires.”

It makes you feel good, doesn‘t it? 

Mitch, find me one doctor who thinks that we‘re going to start replacing body parts like tires anytime soon.  And by the way, kids born today have an estimated life expectancy of 78 years.  So there‘s no way that we‘re all going to be living to 100 anytime soon. 

Trying to justify raiding Social Security based on a completely false claim that kids today, they‘re going to start living until they‘re 100 years old, is plain old-fashioned “Psycho Talk.”  

Coming up, Speaker Boehner—gosh, that‘s hard to say—and Eric Cantor are dismissing the CBO after it says a health care repeal bill would add $230 billion to the deficit.  As I like to say, the new year saying is they‘re still Republicans. 

Howard Dean on how to fight the Republican spin in “The Battleground” story tonight.  Stay with us for that. 

Plus, Darrell Issa is now pretending he doesn‘t know what “corrupt” means. 

We‘ll remind him. 

You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Stay with us. 

Lots coming up in the next half hour.  We‘re right back. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ED SCHULTZ, HOST, “THE ED SHOW”:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  In the “Battleground” story tonight, we‘re getting a preview of what health care would look like if the Republicans get their way and it‘s absolutely sickening.  In Arizona, Republican Governor Jan Brewer has slashed the state‘s Medicaid coverage for transplant patients, forcing sick people off the transplant list.  Two people.  Two people have already died because of it.  In California, news today that the Blue Shield is planning to raise health insurance rates by as much as 59 percent.  Republicans aren‘t about to raid in the big insurance buddies, so if they get their way, those kinds of rate hikes will keep happening.  The GOP is just itching to put insurance companies back in the driver‘s seat.  And the Congressional Budget Office has said, repealing the health care law would increase the deficit, but Republicans are choosing to ignore them.  Here‘s John Boehner today. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  We know there‘s job-killing health care law, it hurts our economy.  I don‘t think that anybody in this town believes that repealing Obama-care is going to increase the deficit. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Well, check your mailbox, Mr. Speaker.  The CBO sent you a letter today with this to say about the Republicans repealing of the health care bill.  “Over the period of 2012 to 2021, that period, the effective repealing health care on federal deficits is a result of changes and direct spending and revenues is likely to be increased in the vicinity of $230 billion.  Did you hear that, tan man?  A deficit increase of $230 billion.  The righties want to eliminate the progress that we‘ve made over last two years.  We have to stop these guys in their tracks.  I asked former chairman of the DNC, Governor Howard Dean how we can do it.  

Governor Dean, the Republicans are saying that the CBO score is wrong.  The CBO is putting out a statement today saying that the deficit would increase by $230 billion if they were to repeal the health care bill.  Your take on their numbers?

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN:  I would say that the Tea Party didn‘t last long, did they?  Here they all come in talking about the deficit and the first time they have a bill that would rack up more deficit, they‘ll going to vote for it.  It‘s too bad, really.  We really needed each other in the fight—to fight the deficit, fight.  But, you know, this is their same song the Republicans played when George Bush was president and created all of this huge deficit, so it doesn‘t surprise me.  To denied the CBO‘s score is just foolish.  You know, not only the non-partisan budget office in the capital, they may be right and they may be wrong but you‘ve got—everybody has agreed that that‘s the score we‘re going to use when we pay off the deficit and when we cross things out.  So, for them to deny the CBO scores, it‘s really pathetic and it means that unfortunately they‘re not serious about the deficit and they really are fraud.  

SCHULTZ:  Well, a lot of people are concerned that the White House right now is not firing back with a strong message.  All that we‘re hearing from the conservatives is that it‘s a job-killing health care bill and they want to repeal it.  Where is the pushback here, Governor?  

DEAN:  We need to be much staffer.  But remember, the president‘s staff is influx.  They‘re getting a new communications—some new communications, people and we don‘t who know they‘re going to be yet.  But that‘s right.  The action of the real message about jobs is, this is very good for small business and the fact is, this will get small business out of health insurance business as they want to be.  It‘s a very good thing to help create jobs.  Eighty percent of the new jobs in this country are created by small businesses.  Republicans always talk about small business and they never do anything to help them.

So, you know, the Republicans really are evidently interested in business or jobs.  They haven‘t done anything to create jobs in the last ten years as far as I can tell.  And it doesn‘t look like they‘re going to change anything.  And I think we‘re going to deal about the deficit.  I‘m sorry about it.  I think we‘re going to do all kinds of things Democrats don‘t want to do.  And we‘re going to do some things Republicans don‘t want to do.  But the fact of the matter is, when you start denying the numbers, you are not serious about the deficits and this is the redacts of George W.  Bush.  And the Republicans who spent us into oblivion in the eight years prior to the President Obama talking office and they looks like they‘re getting ready fix into do it again.  

SCHULTZ:  But, Governor Dean, don‘t you think that this is all part of 1220.  Having this vote in the House.  Having it go nowhere on the Senate or on the president‘s deck and then the Republicans going out on the campaign trail, say, see that.  The Democrats are the obstructionists.  We‘re trying to help health care but they won‘t let us do it.  I mean, they‘re trying to do a reversal as I see it and they‘re also going to be pointing out that the rate is still going up.  What do you think?  

DEAN:  I think their skilled propaganda and it won‘t work.  The only reason they get repeal health care, they‘re secretly praying they won‘t really repeal it because they know if they did repeal it, 26-year-old kids would lose their health insurance and parents would have to pay for it.  People get thrown off of their health insurance because they don‘t have—they have pre-existing conditions.  A lot of more people wouldn‘t have any health insurance, this is fraudulent but this is just Act II.  Act I was all a pageantry today or yesterday.  Act II is all of this nonsense and posturing for their base but they have to get serious to deny, to say that the CBO is wrong is the last desperate gaffes from people who are just making it up as they go along.  It‘s a little frightening because it means they‘re probably aren‘t serious.  And you‘re going to see, I hope that John Boehner doesn‘t turn into Mitch McConnell.  This is a bad sign for the Republicans and it‘s a bad sign for the country.  

SCHULTZ:  And I also see there‘s a heavy lift for the White House because rates are going up on consumers around country and the pre-existing condition doesn‘t hit the majority of Americans.  This is going to be a heavy lift to resell for the Democrats, isn‘t it?

DEAN:  I agree with that, Ed, and we both know that there were some big mistakes made by the Democrats and the White House when this thing was put in and we‘ve talked about those but we‘ve got what we‘ve got.  At the end of the day, it‘s going to be better than not doing anything at all. 

SCHULTZ:  Yes.

DEAN:  It is going to set the stage so that states like Vermont, I just went to an inauguration to a new democratic governor of Vermont who got up and said, I want a single payor in this state, I beat it‘s not another state in the union saying that.  And with this bill it‘s possible for states to have that individual freedom which I think they ought to have, so this bill‘s worth defending.  And with a lot mistakes made, those are in the past, I think we just got to figure out how to make this work.  The White House is going to be the key because the president still had the biggest megaphone and always has the biggest megaphone.  

SCHULTZ:  No doubt.  Governor Dean, good to have you with us tonight. 

Thanks so much for joining us. 

DEAN:  Thanks for having me on.  

SCHULTZ:  Now, let‘s get some rapid fire response from our panel on these stories.  Congressman Darrell Issa accuses the media of not knowing the meaning of corrupt?  I don‘t know that Issa is the right guy to be throwing that accusation around, do you?

And the birther in the House gallery disrupted the reading of the constitution today, but the brand-new Speaker of the House John Boehner is refusing to tell the birthers in his own caucus that they‘ve cross the line. 

With us tonight, nationally syndicated radio talk show host Amy Holmes and also with us tonight is nationally syndicated radio talk show host, Bill Press. 

All right.  NBC‘s Brian Williams did an interview with Mr. Boehner.  When Brian Williams asked Boehner about President Obama birthplace, he said, he believed that he was born in Hawaii but when Williams asked him if he would tell that to the 12 members of his caucus who were birthers, this is what Mr. Boehner had to say to Mr. Williams.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER:  When you come to the Congress of the United States, there are 435 of us.  We‘re nothing more than a slice of America.  And people come but regardless of party labels, they come with all kinds of beliefs and ideas.  It‘s the melting pot of America.  It‘s not up to me to tell them what they think.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  The truth distribute doesn‘t matter, Bill Press, what do you make of this?  

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Well, if you‘re looking for leadership from John Boehner on Day one, he proves that he‘s not going to be—there‘s not going to be any, Ed.  I mean, this is outrage, Ed.  You have to start from this 13th base, and base is respecting each other and they‘re working on problems, you can‘t respect each other when you allow members of your caucus to question the citizenship of the president of the United States.  

SCHULTZ:  Amy, isn‘t this just having your own set of facts?  Can‘t Boehner say, you know those folks are wrong that he would—United States, what‘s wrong with that?

AMY HOLMES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Well, he didn‘t say that they were wrong and he says that he believes that President Obama was born in Hawaii.  But what he was saying is that he wasn‘t going to necessarily lecture those members of his caucus.  I actually happen to agree with Bill Press and I think that these birthers are outrageously.  I know personally the person who was tasked went getting into President Obama‘s gift certificate for the John McCain campaign and he found out that President Obama was born in Hawaii.  He is. 

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ:  So, why wouldn‘t the new speaker set his own caucus straight?  He says, they come with all kinds of beliefs and ideas.  This isn‘t an idea.  This is a fact.  The president of the United States was born in the United States. 

HOLMES:  I agree with you that he was born in the United States, and Mr. Boehner believes he was born in the United States but I believe that Mr. Boehner doesn‘t want to be picking a fight with these members on day one of taking over the House.  

PRESS:  Amy, but they‘re have to be some limits, I mean, you can‘t say it‘s OK for some of our caucus who believe in going back to segregated schools, going back to slavery.  You can‘t say. 

HOLMES:  What you are talking about?  The birthers aren‘t advocating that.  

PRESS:  Well, no, no.  But I mean, that‘s the idea that any belief goes, that any belief is acceptable because we‘re a vast melting pot, that is Caca.  There are certain things that we should all—subscribe to and agree to and then move on.  I mean Boehner really lost a moment here, I‘m sorry to say.  To show a little bit of leadership.  

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ:  If the sky was red and not blue, would Boehner say, well, it‘s a belief, you know, I mean, there are absolute here. 

HOLMES:  And you‘re actually not getting disagreement from me but I do understand Boehner‘s explanation to Brian Williams that to pick a fight with these folks on day one, I would like to see him tell them, look, let‘s drop it.  It discredits Republicans.  It discredits conservatives to keep bringing this up.  We have proof and evidence that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.  There was a newspaper notice at the time.  I‘ve seen it myself, for Boehner to say, let‘s set this aside and move forward with a pocket of agenda that Republicans to elected and enact.  I think that would be appropriate.  

PRESS:  The fact that he didn‘t shows that he is a weak leader. 

SCHULTZ:  And Bill Press.  How come Darrell Issa doesn‘t know what corrupt means?  

PRESS:  Well, I have to tell you, we all know what the word “corrupt” means, Ed, I mean, in Washington and in Orange County, California, it means you‘re involved in illegal activity, and look, for Issa to  say that the Obama administration and the president is one of the most corrupt in memory, I mean, how short is his memory?  What about Watergate?  What about Iran/Contra?  What about Scooter Libby?  What about. 

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES:  What about China Gate?  What about Bill Clinton?  What about impeachment? 

PRESS:  You‘ll get a chance and the $50 billion that‘s missing in defense contracts in Iraq, Ed, and let me just add one other thing.

SCHULTZ:  Amy, is he just throwing around accusations about any proof, I mean, to say the president‘s corrupt and the stimulus bill was corrupt after it was voted on by the Congress?  

HOLMES:  Well, let‘s remember President Obama confessed to “The New York Times” as one of his biggest elections as president was the he realized or he discovered that there was no such thing as a shovel-ready job.  

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS:  Corruption.  

HOLMES:  Where did those billions of dollars go?  I think that the oversight there is absolutely appropriate and necessary but even more absurd.  

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ:  Bill Press, Amy Holmes, great to you have both of you with us tonight.  We‘ll have you back for sure.  Thanks so much.

Coming up.  Chris Christie‘s attack on American workers, well, it‘s spreading.  Award-winning film maker Robert Greenwald gave working class Americans their turn to sound off.  We‘ll show you the tape next, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  And it‘s not too late to let us know what you think.  The number to dial tonight is 1-877-ed-msnbc.  Tonight‘s television phone survey question is, my question tonight is, do you have faith, President Obama‘s rocky relationship with the base will improve?  Press the number one for yes, press the number two for no.  Again, the number to dial is 1-877-ed-msnbc.  We‘re right back.          

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  And in my “Playbook” tonight, public service workers all over the country are under attack.  State workers are losing their jobs and benefits while the fat cats on Wall Street are making record profits after being bailed out by our tax dollars.  This is a straight up war, going on between Wall Street and Main Street.  And right now, Wall Street is winning.  Robert Greenwald of Brave New Films is on top of this story and he has come out with this new video.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LASHON WIGGERS (PH), LAID OFF FROM HER JOB:  My name is Lashon Wiggers, I‘m from Southern California.  I was a child care director for the city of Los Angeles.  Within the city, there‘s 26 state licensed child care centers.  What they did was—they closed all but two.  We‘re teaching the children of the future and for us to have lost our jobs or for us to have been laid off, it‘s like what we do is not important.  Only banks, or only executives, or only people who are higher up who kind of look down on us, they‘re the ones who still get to keep their jobs. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  For more, let‘s turn to filmmaker Robert Greenwald of Brave New Films.  He does fabulous work as right to it for the people.  Republican governors around the country are going out making the  workers the villain and going after state workers, community workers, and they say their pension‘s too much.  Graphically show $19,000 a year is their pension.  What kind of reaction are you getting out there, Mr. Greenwald?

ROBERT GREENWALD, BRAVE NEW FILMS:  Well, we‘re getting rage and fury from people all over the country, Ed, who have basic common sense.  When you have these governors like Christie in New Jersey, vetoing a millionaire‘s tax and then firing 1,200 workers, when you have the governor of Ohio, Kasich, saying one thing and then doing another and he‘s giving 35 percent raises to his buddies?  Now, this is a guy who made a $600,000 bonus from Lehman Brothers, we‘re supposed to accept his word on how to treat workers.  But it‘s what you said at the beginning, Ed, this is a war.  It‘s corrupt Wall Street executives that have caused a lot of these problems.  It‘s the cost of the war and people like Lashon are paying the price.  

SCHULTZ:  Unions are their only hope to get organized and speak out. 

I mean, the union effort not is to get together collectively and pushback. 

Yours is the first pushback that we have seen nationally.  

GREENWALD:  Yes, well, it‘s important that there be collective action, it‘s important that the united  action, and remember, Ed, it‘s easy to demonize a group of people, but when you see them as we do in the videos, these are people who are librarians, who are health care workers, sanitation workers.  Damn it, they are not the reason the problems with the cities and the financial ruin.  It‘s the Wall Street people who looted and stole money and now we‘re all paying a price for this.  

SCHULTZ:  Total 2009 executive compensation for the five largest banks that received the bailout funds was $90 billion.  Where is the justice?  How much more work you‘re going to do on this?

GREENWALD:  Well, we‘re going to continue to do work on this to tell the personal stories and we‘re going to make it clear, Ed, where the money is going.  And it‘s Wall Street and it‘s the war.  Look, in Ohio, they‘re spending $15 billion for the war in Afghanistan.  They could pay for 200,000 teachers, 300,000 firefighters for what they‘re paying for one year in the war, you take the war, you take Wall Street and these right wingers instead of attacking the problem are trying to blame librarians and sanitation workers. 

SCHULTZ:  They are making the workers in America the villain.  Mr.

Greenwald, good to have you with us tonight.  We‘ll stay on the story.  

GREENWALD:  Thanks, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  Coming up.  Michele Bachmann let the cat out of bag this morning.  Folks, I think she‘s running for president.  I‘ll show you the tape next, stay with us.               

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  And finally tonight, it‘s official, don‘t fall off of the couch at home, folks.  Psycho queen, Michele Bachmann, she is now an official member of the House Intelligence Committee.  That‘s right, she‘s on the committee that oversees the CIA.  It makes you feel good, huh?  Now it sounds funny but it really needs to be taken seriously.  She‘s the last person I think I would trust with, highly classified information because she loves the camera too much and loves to talk too much but I think disappointment is something for her to pad her resume, to get that run for president to try to get the republican nomination.  In two weeks, she‘ll make her first trip to Iowa, where the primary season begins.  And this morning, she accidentally let—slipped the GOP‘s real plan for next week‘s health care repeal vote.  It‘s all about 2012. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEREDITH VIERA, NBC ANCHOR:  But if you have no chance to really repeal it, why go through this exercise?

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN ®, MINNESOTA:  Oh, because it‘s not symbolic.  It‘s real.  We really do want to repeal it, and just like we intend next week to have a full-scale repeal of Obama-care in the House,  yesterday we saw essentially the American people made a decision to repeal Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, and that‘s why looking forward in 2012, unless President Obama is listening to the voice of the people and Harry Reid listening to the fact that people want the government takeover of health care repeal, I think we will also see a rollback and a repeal of President Obama in 2012 as well.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  That is exactly what I told you on this program last night. 

For more, let‘s bring in Roy Sekoff, the founding editor of “Huffington Post.”  It‘s all about the setup.  Pass it in the House with the Republicans.  Harry Reid will drop it on the floor in the Senate.  And it will never reach the president‘s desk, obviously, and then the Republicans come out and say, see, the Democrats, they‘re the obstructionists, we‘ve tried to fix these rate increases.  What do you think, Roy?  Brilliant move?  Good political move?

ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, “HUFFINGTON POST”:  No, it‘s a waste of time.  They‘re talking about, it‘s all about the people‘s purposes, all about the people‘s time and money.  Well, who is paying for the money that they‘re going to waste on the time, you know, the lights, and the guards, and everything, on something that‘s pure theater.  Never going to happen, Ed.  It‘s ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as the idea of Michele Bachmann running for president.  

SCHULTZ:  Well, do you think that she would be a viable candidate?  I happen to think that she would.  First of all, her being on the Intelligence Committee, I‘ll tell you what loose lips sink ships and she‘s got a lot of them.  What do you think?

SEKOFF:  Well, of course, actually, you know, Ed, I think, Michele Bachmann being on the Intelligence  Committee, isn‘t that an oxymoron?  I mean she‘s—wasn‘t she the one who said that Iran was going to annex part of Iraq and make it a terrorist safe-free zone.  I can‘t imagine what‘s going to be coming out with her but she‘s viable only in the sense, Ed that there‘s this modern obsession with getting candidates to say, whether they‘re running for president or not.  I mean, we‘ve had Mark Rubio who‘s been a senator for less time than, you know, James Franco (ph), he‘s arm was trapped by that rock.  People are already asking him if he‘s running for president.  It‘s become the sort of this kabuki dance where they all get to be political teases.  You know, they showed just enough skin to get a little attention.  Ups their profile, they can raise more money, and then what happens?  Then they get the book deal, then they‘re suddenly on FOX.  I think that‘s the thing, Ed.  It‘s nowadays, it‘s more about celebrity than it is about politics.  

SCHULTZ:  And I think she understands that, but being an attorney, being someone who has raised more money than any other house member in a race just recently.  And I don‘t think that she has the personality to go out and to go do or have the interest to do a reality show.  I mean, she goes for the jugular.  She politically wants to be in the White House some day.  Considering the money, wouldn‘t she be serious, Roy?  

SEKOFF:  Well, she is serious, just based on the money.  But, Ed, she‘s a bomb thrower.  And I think they actually this being put on the Intelligence Committee is actually going to work against her.  She wanted to be on the Ways and Means Committee which is a big, high-profile thing.  The thing about the Intelligence Committee is it gives you gravitas but everything happens very much in secret, you know, that‘s not a high-profile position.  I think that‘s sort of John Boehner‘s way of saying, I think, I‘m going to put you around the corner over there.  

SCHULTZ:  She would definitely pull the party to the right.  She would satisfy the Tea Partiers, and of course, she‘s already on record, introducing a bill to reform—or repeal the Wall Street reform which was done. 

SEKOFF:  Yes.  

SCHULTZ:  I mean, she‘s doing exactly what the Tea Partiers want them to do and she‘s—go ahead.  

SEKOFF:  She‘s going to keep that small slice of it, Ed.  You know, at the end of the day, she‘s appealing to a very, very narrow slice of the base.  Never going to be enough to become president.  But the interesting thing is if you remember in August of 2009, she said that the only way she would run for president, if God specifically called her to do so.  So I think there‘s maybe been a little telephonic communication recently because she‘s definitely making plans to run as her chief of staff said.  That nothing is off of the table.  

SCHULTZ:  And Roy, let‘s not forget what put her on the map when our colleague Chris Matthews interviewed her, and she said she thought everybody in Congress should be investigated for their anti-American views.  That has to be in the top ten of all-time great cable comments. 

SEKOFF:  Oh yes, she‘s definitely in the top ten, also, I mean, she‘s maybe, maybe she has five of the top ten slots, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  That‘s right.  

SEKOFF:  She‘s got the re-education camp for our children.  

SCHULTZ:  Oh, yes.  

SEKOFF:  You know?  The census‘ some kind of socialist plot.  

SCHULTZ:  Yes.  

SEKOFF:  She‘s got a million of them.  

SCHULTZ:  Tell her to run, Roy.  Good to have you with us tonight, buddy.  I appreciate your time.  

SEKOFF:  Good seeing you, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  Tonight in our telephone survey I asked, my question was, do you have faith, President Obama‘s rocky relationship with the base will improve?  Sixty four percent of you said yes, 36 percent of you said no. 

That‘s THE ED SHOW.  I‘m Ed Schultz.  For more information on THE ED SHOW, go to edmsnbc.com or check out my radio Web site, wegoted.com.  “HARDBALL” with Chris Matthews starts right now.  We‘ll see you back here tomorrow night here on MSNBC.   

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