MR. GREGORY:
All right. Let's take a couple of minutes and talk about
Afghanistan
. This is the other big debate that is really coming to a head this summer. You two are on opposite ends of it in terms of how many
troops
should come home when this drawdown begins this summer, specifically next month. But, Senator
Graham
, it's very interesting because, within the
Republican Party
, there is a growing debate about
Afghanistan
as well. Crystallized,
Mitt Romney
, you said he's the front- runner in the Republican race in the past and he said this...
SEN. GRAHAM:
Right.
MR. GREGORY:
...about the
America
's role in
Afghanistan
during the debate this week. Listen.
FMR. GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R-MA):
But I also think we've learned that our
troops
shouldn't go off and try to fight a
war of independence
for another
nation
. Only the
Afghanis
can win
Afghanistan
's
independence
from the
Taliban
.
MR. GREGORY:
To which you said he may be another
Jimmy Carter
. You said this about another Republican.
SEN. GRAHAM:
Well, I said that the debate last night was more like
Jimmy Carter
than
Ronald Reagan
. If you think the pathway to the
GOP
nomination in
2012
is to get to
Barack Obama
's left on
Libya
,
Afghanistan
and
Iraq
, you're going to meet a lot of headwinds. This is not a war of Afghan
independence
from
my point of view
. This is the center of gravity against
the war on terror
,
radical Islam
. It is in our
national security
interest to make sure the
Taliban
never come back. If we fail in
Afghanistan
, they will kill every moderate who tried to help us, and no one in the future will, will step up. It will destabilize
Pakistan
beyond what exists today. It will be a colossal
national security
mistake. And here's the good news. The Afghans do not want to be ruled by the
Taliban
. We've doubled training capacity since
December 2009
. There'll be 305,000 Afghans under arms.
MR. GREGORY:
Well...
SEN. GRAHAM:
We're making great progress, 6,000 people a month are joining the
Afghan army
. In
September 2009
...
MR. GREGORY:
Well...
SEN. GRAHAM:
...it was 800. We're on track to do -- to withdraw.
MR. GREGORY:
Are you fearful that there is an isolationist streak now running through the
Republican Party
?
SEN. GRAHAM:
Yes. I'm fearful that...
MR. GREGORY:
It's not war weariness?
SEN. GRAHAM:
...there are forces on the right...
MR. GREGORY:
It's not a practical response to a decade of war?
SEN. GRAHAM:
It's not an understanding of what's going on in
Afghanistan
and the consequences of losing. Are we at war and, if we are, with you? We're at war with
radical Islam
. That fight is now in
Afghanistan
.
General Petraeus
has put the enemy on their heels. We're doubling the capacity to train the Afghan
troops
. We can bring some
troops
home this summer. By
2016
, if we do this right, five years from now, we can have
troops
in
Afghanistan
and
Iraq
, the same number as
South Korea
. If we accelerate withdrawal right now because we're war weary, we're going to lose this war.
MR. GREGORY:
Let me give you the final word, Senator
Durbin
. There is a split, based on my reporting, between the military and some
Republicans
and even some of the thinking within the
White House
about how to draw down this number. What, in your mind, is an appropriate and sizeable withdrawal from
Afghanistan
? You were very clear in a letter this week saying, after
bin Laden
, after the diminishment of
al-Qaeda
in
Afghanistan
, it is time to make a sizeable withdrawal.
SEN. DURBIN:
Yes. Senator
Merkley
circulated that letter, and I believe 26 or 27 of us signed that, to the president. I can tell you,
David
, when I voted 10 years ago against the invasion of
Iraq
, there were 23 of us. I voted for the invasion of
Afghanistan
to go after those responsible for 9/11. I didn't vote for the
longest war
in
American history
. I didn't vote for 100,000
troops
10 years later in
Afghanistan
and a notion that somehow we're going to build this into some
nation
that's a democracy. What we need to do is to have enough security on the ground in
Afghanistan
that we can bring our
troops
home. The president made that promise. We should keep that promise. Bring these
troops
home and let the Afghans deal with the future of their country.
The United States
cannot literally go from one country to another around the world with all the instability and say that, ultimately, our men and women in uniform will put their lives on the line for the stability of every
nation
in transition.
MR. GREGORY:
All right. I'm going to leave it there. The debate continues. Senators, thank you both very much.
SEN. DURBIN:
Thank you.
“ ”