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The Ed Show for Tuesday, September 6, 2011

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Guests: James Hoffa, Jr., John Nichols, Jim Moore, Mike Papantonio, Brad Friedman

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans, and welcome to THE ED SHOW
tonight from New York.

Breaking news from "The Associated Press": The president is going to
go big on his jobs plan -- $300 billion in spending and tax cuts to add
jobs immediately to our economy. The bad news is the Republicans are
probably never going to go for it.

The ideological war between the Tea Party and the unions, it is
raging. And the stakes couldn`t be higher.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


JAMES HOFFA, TEAMSTERS PRESIDENT: Everybody here`s got to vote. If
we go back, keep the eye on the prize. Let`s take these sons of bitches
out and give America back to Americans where we belong.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Right wingers are freaking out over Teamster
President James Hoffa about just said he said and what it means.

Tonight, Mr. Hoffa is not backing down, and he joins me exclusively.

declared war on labor`s house, and it`s about time we stand up!

SCHULTZ: The vice president is laying down the gauntlet. Tonight,
I`ll tell President Obama what I need to hear in his jobs speech.

And if you don`t believe the right has declared war on labor, just
listen to one of the Tea Party`s biggest bankrollers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the mother of all wars we`ve got in the
next 18 months.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, Koch Industries is responding to the release of
that audio.


SCHULTZ: Good evening, folks. Thanks for watching tonight.

I mean, it is priceless audio. I love this story. It`s about time
somebody stood up and said it just like that. Teamster President James
Hoffa has the Tea Party playing the victim, and I love it. They`re playing
the role of the victim. They`re so offended.

Hoffa warmed up a massive crowd of people in Detroit, Michigan, just
before President Obama took the stage to give a Labor Day speech. Detroit
is one of the main fronts on the Republican ideological war on the American

Hoffa fights the battle ever single day in this country. And he
nailed the Tea Party where it hurts and where is the truth.


HOFFA: We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face -- a war on
workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know
there`s only one way to beat and win that war.

The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you
know what, they got a war, they got a war with us, and it`s only going to
be one where it`s going to be the workers of Michigan and America. We`re
going to win that war.

President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let`s
take these sons of the bitches out and give America back to American where
we belong.


SCHULTZ: Now, this is just Ed talking. I think he`s spot on.

Tea Party played a major role in electing governors like Scott Walker
and John Kasich and Rick Snyder in Michigan. Those governors have been on
an absolute tear, on a mission to cripple the middle class in this country,
with spending cuts and anti-union legislation that came out of nowhere.
Nobody`s been crying for it. And this has all unfolded since last

Hoffa fights fire with fire. And this is what I think workers and
middle classers in this country want. And now, the Tea Party and FOX News,
they put this fake outrage machine into high gear. Look how FOX News
contributor and Bush boot licker Brad Blakeman reacted.


thuggery at its best. It`s what unions are good at. It`s what we`ve seen
in Wisconsin and other places, intimidation.

But this is the warm-up act? This is the touchy, feely act before a
president arrives? I mean, these are the kinds of remarks we should expect
at a Tony Soprano, not a union president. Well, I take that back. A Hoffa
presidency is the type of person you`d hear this type of rhetoric. The
president should repudiate it.

I mean, a union president says let`s take these sons of the bitches
out, it usually means somebody`s legs are going to get broken, somebody`s
going to disappear. Tea Party people don`t use that kind of rhetoric.


SCHULTZ: Well, we realize that Blakeman, he doesn`t get out of the
Beltway too often, there were no union thugs in Wisconsin. I know, I was
there quite often.

Right wing sleaze blogger Andrew Breitbart blasted out this line to
his followers. Breitbart is the kind of editing tape. Take a look at what
he missed. FOX News left this portion of Hoffa`s speech on the edit room


HOFFA: Everybody here`s got a vote. If we go back and we keep the
eye on the prize, let`s take these sons of bitches out and give America
back where we belong. Thank you very much!


SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Hoffa clearly wasn`t calling for violence against
the Tea Party. He was talking about bouncing Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan out
of office from the ballot box in 2012.

Now, let`s just turn the tables for a moment. If you don`t believe
Cantor and Ryan use rhetoric themselves let`s go back to the commercial
they cranked out just last year.


NARRATOR: There is a better way, and a new team is ready to bring
America back. Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, joined by common
sense conservative candidates from across the country. Together they are
ready to make it. Together they are the young guns.


SCHULTZ: They`re the young guns. What do you do with a gun? Just
kind of hang on to it, or do you use it?

I mean, come on, folks, we all know that James Hoffa was talking about
middle classers fighting back and going after the ballot box to get rid of
the very people that have attacked labor that were in that commercial.
Now, where was the outrage when that commercial came out? They`re the
young guns. Ever heard of a congressional member being labeled a young

Over the last three years, the Tea Party has mastered this type of
violent language and rhetoric in the commercials.


SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: If we`re able to stop Obama on
this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him, and we will show that we
can -- along with the American people -- begin to push those freedom
solutions that work in every area of our society.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: I want people in Minnesota
armed and dangerous on this issue of energy tax because we need to fight
back. The people, we, the people, are going to have to fight back hard if
we`re not going to lose our country. I think this has the potential of
changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the United States. And that`s
why I want everyone to come out and hear. So, go to and
you can get all the information.

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Don`t retreat, reload. And
that`s not a call to violence.


SCHULTZ: Now, those weren`t commercials. Those were three top
Republicans out there talking to the crazy, talking to the folks that
worship the ground they walk on.

Let`s see if we can break Obama. That`s an old Southern term dealing
with slavery. But we`ll that one slide since Mr. DeMint at that time said,
well, that`s not really what I meant.

Let`s see, Michele Bachmann wants people in Minnesota armed and
dangerous. And, of course, Sarah is famous for her rhetoric.

Now, nobody plays the victim better than the quitter from Alaska. She
took time away from her fake run for president to post this on her
Facebook. "Please don`t be taken in by union bosses` thuggery like James
Hoffa represented yesterday. Union bosses like this do not have your best
interest at heart. What they care about is their own power in re-electing
their friend, Barack Obama, so he will take care of them to the detriment
of everyone else."

Hold it right there. Take care of who?

This White House has not been overly friendly to labor in this
country. In fact, they were told that the Employee Free Choice Act had to
sit on the sideline because they were going to do health care.

The real head of the Republican Party blasted Hoffa and the president
from his controlled studio climate in Palm Beach County, Florida.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Could there be any doubt Hoffa
and maybe Obama been thinking of Republicans as their bitches ever since he
was elected?


SCHULTZ: Really? The Drugster and Palin, they have been two of the
most vicious verbal attackers of the president and the unions over the
years. Neither one of them have a clue what middle class Americans have
been going through, since radical Republican Tea Partiers have taken

Wage earners, I believe, know exactly what James Hoffa was talking
about. And they`re in their living rooms tonight jumping up and down
saying, finally, somebody`s telling like it is. Somebody with a position
of authority is standing up for workers in this country saying, hey, we
need to take them out at the ballot box.

Oh, but wait a minute, they didn`t like the phrase that was used. You
see? When Republican policies take money out of your pocket, do you want
to play nice? The answer to that, to the liberals in this country now is
hell no. Middle class Americans are sick and tired of the talk-down
culture and they are tired of taking the blame for what Bush did.

Now, this is an ideological war going on in this country. And
liberals need to fight. Not with guns, not with knives, not with
commercials that talk about young guns and what they represent, just do it
at the ballot box because the fact is, Republicans in this country since
the takeover of the Congress have done nothing for jobs, have done nothing
for the middle class, and have done nothing but obstruct this president
trying to do something for the country.

They`ve obstructed him so much -- and the president has, of course,
been one olive branch after another. That`s what`s frustrated liberals in
this country. That`s why I think President Obama`s numbers have eroded.

It`s not eroding because the conservatives don`t like him. Those
numbers are eroding because liberals in many parts of the country are very
frustrated, that nobody in the White House is talking like James Hoffa.

So, here comes the Republicans. They want Mr. Hoffa to take it back.
They want the president to disavow himself from unions in this country. It
ain`t going to happen.

So, what (AUDIO BREAK) is a classic. This is -- Jon Stewart, are you
paying attention? This is a defining moment.

Is this really how middle classers feel in this country? That they
want to take these sons of bitches out at the ballot box? Do they really
feel that way? I guess only time will tell.

Liberals need to hit the Tea Party with the facts and never back down.
The unions have been asked to take a back seat by President Obama time and
time again. The Employee Free Choice Act is a perfect example.

Those days have got to be over. If the Tea Party wants a fight, it
sounds to me that liberals and workers in this country are ready to do it.

Just remember one thing, Democrats, you stand with workers, you don`t
have to worry about getting elected. I believe that`s the mood of the
country right now. I believe the mood of the country is exactly what James
Hoffa is saying. And that`s why the right wing is so uptight about what he
said. He`s telling the truth.

Get your cell phones out, I want to know what you think. Are
Republicans at war with the middle class? Text A for yes, text B for no,
to 622639. You can always go to our blog at Results are
coming up later in the show.

Joining us now exclusively tonight, James Hoffa, general president of
the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Mr. Hoffa, great to have you
with us tonight and I appreciate --

HOFFA: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: First of all, I appreciate what you do for workers in this
country and how you never back down. They want you to back down now. They
say that you are purporting violent rhetoric.

What`s your response to that?

HOFFA: Well, we`re not backing down. What we said yet is right on.
The answer is, we`ve got the votes. We`ve got to mobilize our people.

There is a war on workers, and the way we change that is, we are a
mighty army, let`s march together and let`s make sure we win at the ballot
box and take out every Tea Party Republican that opposes working families.
That`s the message I had. There`s no violence when you go to vote.

And the old story is, labor has the votes. And the old side -- the
Republicans have the money. So, we got to go to the polls. We got to get
this done. We got to capture that energy that you see in Wisconsin, that
you see in Ohio.

That is what we`ve got to do, and it is spreading everywhere else.
And I wish the president would get involved in those kinds of movements,
where we have 100,000 people in Madison, where we have 50,000 people in
Columbus. That is energy.

We collected over 1 million signatures in Ohio. That is an energy
that is spreading everywhere, and that`s what`s going to win the election
in 2012.

SCHULTZ: You heard the sound bites from some of the people on FOX.
They`re making you out to be some union thug boss that is threatening
violence. What has been the response, what kind of response have you
gotten from who are the workers of this country? Are they not standing up
saying, way to go? Or maybe I`m wrong on that?

HOFFA: The phones rang off the hook at all of our locals today. The
members are calling in, finally, somebody`s standing up for us. Somebody`s
saying what has to be said. We`re tired of this namby-pamby talk that`s
out there. Let`s go out and call these people what they are. Let`s go
after the issue of voting. Let`s talk about the war on workers. And let`s
make sure we mobilize and vote in November.

SCHULTZ: Do you regret --

HOFFA: It was a tremendous response today. The phones rang off the
hook in tremendous support from working families.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the Republicans are sons of bitches?

HOFFA: I think they are, if they`re trying to take food out of the
mouth of working people. What kind of a person does that? What kind of a
person tries to take away collective bargaining from public employees, from
firemen, from policemen, from teachers? What kind of person wants to go in
and take away their pensions?

You know what? That`s a bad person, and that`s the kind of people
we`re talking about, because that is the war on workers. The war on
workers started January of this year.

The minute those people got in, one of the first things they did was
to introduce right to work in 14 states, almost simultaneously. That is
the Tea Party, and that`s their agenda. I`m very proud of what we did.

SCHULTZ: You`re very proud of what you said? I think a lot of people
are proud of you too. Do you believe that FOX -- that network is anti-
worker? It seems like they repeatedly take a stance against unions. And
they repeatedly throw out rhetoric that, you know, is just against
organized labor. What are your thoughts on FOX?

HOFFA: Well, I think FOX is really a parallel universe. You watch
that, and you really wonder what world they`re in. They`re anti-worker.
They`re anti-Obama. They talk about right to work.

They just completely spin out a complete different reality than what
you and I see. You watch other networks, they`re not talking about what
they`re talking about. And the people they have in, the Glenn Becks, the
O`Reillys, you know, and those people -- they`re so anti-Obama, anti-the
Democratic Party, anti-workers, anti-people.

And basically, what do they talk about? Oh, we got to take away those


HOFFA: That`s the first thing they get to. What are they talking


HOFFA: Taking away Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. You know,
when you tell people that`s what the war is about -- they say, well, we`re
not going to vote for them. But that`s the message we have to deliver to
make sure we take away all this rhetoric and say, those people want to take
away what we believe is important to every American -- Social Security,
Medicare, Medicaid.

When you get old and you work hard, you work for 40 or 50 years,
you`re entitled to those things.

SCHULTZ: And, Mr. Hoffa, you`re a great negotiator. You`ve done a
lot of great things for workers. I`ve got a favor to ask of you tonight.
I guess Sean Hannity across the street is asking the question, why don`t
you go on with him? And I will ask you don`t go on with him, Mr. Hoffa,
unless senator from Florida, Marco Rubio, comes on with me.

Let`s do a deal because you see, I want to know why the Florida
senator thinks that we are a weaker country because of Social Security,
Medicare and Medicaid. So, if you can work that deal out, if you stick
with me on that, Mr. Hoffa, I really appreciate it. I think that would be
a fair trade, don`t you?

HOFFA: I`ll get to work on it.

SCHULTZ: Thank you, Mr. Hoffa, appreciate your time tonight. There`s
a man who sticks to his guns.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at the bottom of the screen, I
want to know what you think. President Obama had tough talk for
Republicans in a preview of his major jobs speech, I`ll tell you -- I`ll
tell you the president what else I think I need to hear of this address
coming up for working Americans later this week.

And Rick Perry has a few super PAC folks out there that really want to
give him a lot of money. And he`s still leading in the latest poll. Jim
Moore will join us for the latest. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Teamsters President James Hoffa isn`t the only one firing up
the working class in America. This is what Vice President Joe Biden had to
say at a gathering of union members in Cincinnati.


folks keeping the barbarians at the gates. You`re the only nongovernmental
power, the only nongovernmental power, the only one that has the power and
the capacity to stop this onslaught. The other side has declared war on
labor`s house. And it`s about time we stand up. And understand it for
what it is.


SCHULTZ: I love it. Barbarians at the gate. Right on.

President Obama also took a stand for the middle class and unemployed
yesterday. Up next, you`ll hear his challenge to congressional


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

The numbers aren`t very good. President Obama`s job approval is at a
record low 44 percent in a new NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll. On the
economy, only 37 percent think he`s doing a good job.

But when it comes to the president`s ideas for job growth, the public
is on board. Support for a federally funded construction bill stands at 47
to 26. And Americans, yes, they do want to extend the payroll tax cut --
40 percent to 20 percent. The president is expected to propose these plans
and more in his job speech on Thursday. And it sounds like he`s daring
Republicans to oppose him.


congressional Republicans will put country before party. We`ll give them a
plan, and that will say, if you want to create jobs, then put our
construction workers back to work rebuilding America. Do you want to help
our company succeed? Open up new markets for them to sell products. You
want -- you say you`re the party of tax cuts, well, then, prove you`ll
fight just as hard for tax cuts for middle class families as you do for oil
companies and the most affluent Americans. Show us what you got.


SCHULTZ: He is the man on the stump, no doubt about it. Mr.
President, I`m glad to hear you talking tough about the jobs plan. The
American people undoubtedly are on the side with this president when it
comes to initiatives.

But here are some of the things I hope that are in the speech this
week. I was sitting around thinking, OK, now, what could everybody agree
on? Not just what President Obama wants, but what could we as a nation
agree on? How about buy American? Do you think we could get that one

You know, create incentives for people to buy those American made
products. Maybe that will help manufacturing a little bit.

How about this one? Addressing China`s manipulation of currency.
Address that. We need to fight the manipulation in the trade markets,
which is killing American jobs. I even think there are some Republicans
that may go along with that.

All right. Now, this is obviously a popular one. Introduce public
projects. Everybody wants to drive across a brand new bridge. And there`s
plenty of guys that are out there ready to build them. We know the
American people will support large-scale programs that put people back to
work. There`s no question about it.

And finally, this is the one I love -- what do you say we cut the red
tape? Let`s get government involved directly with small businesses, just
like we did with the government motors takeover that saved millions of jobs
in this country. Make it easier for small businesses, those entrepreneurs
to go right to the government and get the money.

Cheap loans, let`s knock off the red tape. Let`s get money into the
hands of those who want to take a risk. Money into the hands of people
that go into banks and say, well, I`m Republican, I don`t like Barack
Obama. It`s all about regulation, they have all these bank regulations, I
can`t give you anything unless you give me half of what you own, and it
goes on and on and on. Knock all that off.

I believe there are a lot of Americans out there that if they had the
chance to get their hands on capital, they`d run like crazy in this
economy. But we just can`t do that, because that would be a government
takeover of business in America.

Just remember, it worked once, it can work again. Loaning money to
people who want to work is a damn good concept and it works.

Mr. President, please put that in on Thursday night.

Joining me tonight is John Nichols, Washington correspondent of "The
Nation" magazine. John, great to have you with us.

The president is expected to propose $300 billion in tax cuts and
federal spending in the plan on Thursday. Now, I`m thinking, you know,
that`s a great number. But what do you think? I mean, is that going to be

JOHN NICHOLS, THE NATION: Proposing tax cuts and cuts in federal
spending is absolutely irrelevant to creating jobs.


NICHOLS: It is possible that if you target some tax cuts to
businesses that are hiring or do credits to them, that could be helpful.
But this whole game has got to stop.

And this president has got to understand that his job on Thursday
night is not to talk to the Republicans in Congress. It is to use that
forum to speak to the American people. The American people are hurting.
We have almost 10 percent unemployment, almost -- well, around 16 percent
real unemployment in this country.

This president has to say to the American people, I`ve got a plan. I
will fight for you, it is not a complicated plan. Everybody can understand
it. I`m not going to mess it up with all sorts of talk about taxes and
spending. I`m going to talk about jobs, jobs, jobs.

If he does that, two things will happen. His poll numbers will go up.
And the pressure on the Republicans will get intense enough to make some
movement here. He cannot complicate it with getting lost in this whole
deficit and spending dialogue, which wasted the summer.

SCHULTZ: You know, John, you bring up an interesting point about
putting pressure on Republicans. I don`t think they care about pressure,
respectfully. I think that they will do anything they possibly can to make
sure that President Obama has zero movement when it comes to creating jobs,
when it comes to doing something positive for the economy.

This is all about taking down President Obama and his administration.
They`ve come three years, they`ve only got one more year to go, and I think
that`s how they`re looking at it. I mean, hell, they`re even saying that,
well, it`s even hard to watch a speech. DeMint was talking about it.

You got some members of Congress saying, well, I don`t even want to go
to it. Of course, Walsh is a case in study, anyway.

I just really don`t think that there`s going to be any Republicans
that are going to step up and say, hey, you know, the president hit a nerve
tonight. I`m ready to work with him. What about that?

NICHOLS: You`re right, Ed. They won`t say it on Thursday night.
Don`t expect that.

But put pressure on them. Make them feel it at home. And, then,
frankly, if they refuse it, if they reject it -- that`s just where we`re
going to be. Then the campaign for 2012 has begun.

But Barack Obama must begin that campaign as a strong president with a
plan. A simple basic, put people back to work plan.

And frankly, I think he ought to borrow a page from his vice
president. That speech in Cincinnati was fantastic. It had people
literally screaming their lungs out. It`s not that Obama didn`t give a
good speech in Detroit. I do -- I would like to see a little bit of that
Biden passion up there because I think that`s what the American people want
to see.

SCHULTZ: I don`t think there`s any question about it. John Nichols,
Washington correspondent of "The Nation" magazine -- great to have you with

There may be a major drawdown of troops in Iraq by the end of the
year. We`ll have the details next.

And Michele Bachmann still thinks she can drill her way to $2 a gallon
gas. I got news for her -- it isn`t going to happen. Her delusional
talking points put her in the zone again tonight.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. The Obama administration may
be prepared to lower American troop levels in Iraq drastically by the end
of the year. "The Huffington Post" reports the number of forces would be
3,000 by the end of the year, including military trainers and advisers.
They are currently about 45,000 American troops in Iraq.

Talk about cutting the budget. The Obama administration officials
have told NBC News that no final decision has been made, but it is headed
in that direction. One official told NBC News that it would be difficult
for President Obama to leave a large U.S. military presence on the ground
in Iraq once the U.S. and the Iraq agreement expires at the end of this

Officials said once negotiations with Iraqis got underway, the mission
was quickly narrowed to a training mission. And 3,000 would be sufficient.
Maybe at some point this country can stop spending billions of dollars in
Iraq and Afghanistan, and maybe we can get our fiscal house in order and
put that money at work for our own use in infrastructure.

Perry is still kicking Mitt Romney`s rear end when it comes to the
latest polls. And of course, Romney`s 150-page jobs plan may not be
helping him much. That`s coming up next.

And what happens at a Koch Brothers retreat stays at a Koch Brothers
retreat. That is until someone leaks the audio to "Mother Jones Magazine."
We`ll play you the exclusive audio and give you the Koch Brothers`
response, coming up.


SCHULTZ: So it`s down to two in the eyes of many experts, Romney and
Perry. Today we got another big reminder of why Governor Rick Perry has
jumped to the top of the polls over his primary rival. And that is former
Governor Mitt Romney. Romney released this 59-point economic plan today,
all of it packed into a handbook that`s 150 pains long.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It`s about 150 pages, with
59 different policy ideas. There are a lot more where these came from.
But we have one of these for each of you, if you`d like to take it and read
it. So you can take a look and see the specific 59 steps I would take.


SCHULTZ: And we all ran home to read that, didn`t we? Here`s
Governor Rick Perry`s economic message, as he summarized it in South
Carolina this weekend. Listen to this.


regulation, freedom from over-taxation, freedom from over-litigation. I`m
about freedom.


SCHULTZ: Fox viewers, who do you think you`re going to go for now?
Perry will probably provide some details at some point. But you can bet
that he won`t have a 59-point plan that`s 150 pages long, because the Tea
Partiers don`t have the attention span to pay attention to that.

They`re more interested in -- you know, to the point. Perry is also
starting to attack Romney`s record on jobs.


PERRY: One in particular that`s created jobs all over the world. But
while he was the governor of Massachusetts, he didn`t create very many


SCHULTZ: Perry is obviously making another comparison between Romney
and himself when he says this --


PERRY: We cannot elect -- we cannot choose a nominee -- let me put it
that way -- that`s going to blur the lines between this president and our
nominee. It has to be someone who has a very stark difference between the
president of the United States and our nominee.


SCHULTZ: Meanwhile, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, she
is fading fast. Her campaign manager, Ed Rollins, is reducing his role to
senior adviser, citing health reasons. But Rollins told the "Washington
Post," quote, "the Perry/Romney race is now the story, with us the third

And in the latest NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll, Perry is way
ahead of Romney, 38 to 23 percent among Republican primary voters.
Bachmann is down to eight percent.

Let`s bring in "Huffington Post" contributor Jim Moore, author of the
upcoming book "Adios Mofo, Why Rick Perry Will Make America Miss George W.

Mr. Moore, I`ve never met Rick Perry, but he sits there in that real
easy way. He seems to be a likeable guy, persuasive, that Texas persuasive
manner. How is he going to do in the debate? And now there`s even
questions whether he`s even going to show up because of the wildfires that
are taking place in Texas. What do you think is going to unfold?

JIM MOORE, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": We heard late this afternoon, Ed,
that he was, in fact, going to make the trip out there. I think from a
political standpoint, it`s probably a good move. It makes him look like a
guy who can manage a disaster as well as talk to the public. I think he`s
going to do very well in the debate.

Rick is one of those guys who doesn`t necessarily try to win a debate.
He tries to not lose a debate. You`ll see a very disciplined message guy,
who`s going to say the same thing over and over, regardless of the
question. I think he will do quite well. And I expect him to be there.

SCHULTZ: I mean, he bullet pointed his answer when it came to what
his plan is for the economy. Here`s Romney waiving a 150-page booklet.
And here`s Rick Perry, the old KISS philosophy, keep it simple stupid. Is
that going to work with the Tea Party a heck of a lot better? Is Romney
out of this?

MOORE: I think what it`s going to come down to for the two candidates
is you`re going to be faced with a couple guys bragging about the size of
their tax cuts. Rick is going to be saying, mine`s bigger; I`m going to
free up corporations; I`m not going to tax you as an individual; and I`m
going to get rid of regulations. It`s basically get rid of government in
all forms.

And Romney is acknowledging that there`s a role to play, but less
government is better. And Rick`s going to win this, because he`s basically
going to argue, over and over, get the government out of here.

SCHULTZ: Finally, for a guy that jumped in the race late and who
wrote a book not thinking about running for president, he has got this
super PAC which is lining up 55 million dollars and a very solid strategy
on how to jump out early on and end this. Your thoughts on that?

MOORE: Well, he`s one of these guys who -- everybody who has watched
him down here in Texas for years and years has thought that he is one of
the luckiest guys in the world, that the stars consistently align for him,
and he keeps winning. You`re seeing that now with the president`s
situation. And you`re seeing it with money turning away from Michele
Bachmann. And the money that Romney has is basically his and some other

But for Rick, things tend to line up. And this super PAC is the
latest manifestation of it. It`s going to make a big impact for him on
issues that he`s going to run on.

SCHULTZ: I think we saw a real stark contrast in styles today in the
way they want to communicate to folks. "Huffington Post" contributor Jim
Moore, thanks for joining us tonight.

Michele Bachmann is still proposing two dollar a gallon gas. She
continues to double down on the crazy. She`s in the zone next. Stay with


SCHULTZ: South Carolina Tea Partier Senator Jim DeMint says he`s
tired of President Obama`s speeches. But he`s not tired of bashing the
president over unemployment, is he? First DeMint went after government


SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I spent the month of August
visiting a lot of businesses, manufacturing plants. What they want is less
regulation. They`re actually afraid to hire people because of what they`re
afraid the government will do to them.


SCHULTZ: Now -- but just a few minutes later, DeMint floated a
different theory about why unemployment is so high.


DEMINT: I have talked to a lot of businesses in South Carolina who
can`t get employees to come back to work because they`re getting
unemployment and they`re getting food stamps. And they say call me when
unemployment runs out.


SCHULTZ: He`s talked to a lot of people in South Carolina, just like
that. Senator, we all know that those aren`t your folks. Come on. You`re
a country clubber.

So which is it, senator? Are businesses afraid to hire, or are they
trying to hire but can`t get anybody to come back to work? By the way,
McClatchey just did a survey of small business owners across the country.
And none of them said regulations or taxes were getting in the way of

In fact, most of them were in favor of regulation. And they pointed
to the banking industry. And I`ll bet DeMint can`t produce one person who
will say he`ll turn down a job to stay on unemployment. Can we get that
interview, senator?

Coming up, Michele Bachmann`s campaign manager is jumping off the
crazy train, but Bachman herself is still going full steam ahead. Stay
with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, Michele Bachmann may be losing
campaign managers right and left, but she`s staying the course on her
promise of two dollar a gallon gasoline. Bachmann was asked about it again
this weekend and she`s towing the drill, baby, drill line.


has been doing is strangling the United States energy sector. We haven`t
been opening up American energy production. There are many, many companies
that would love to. We can do this responsibly.

If we can access American energy, again, we will create millions of
jobs and high paying jobs. We can bring the price of gasoline down, but
not with the current policies of this administration. My pro-growth, pro-
energy policies will bring the prices down.


SCHULTZ: How can a member of Congress be so disconnected? Either she
is totally disconnected or she is just flat out lying. Does she believe
that people are going to believe that? Bachmann has no hope of coming
through on this one.

First of all, she`s lying when she says the president hasn`t been
opening up American energy production. Hello! The number of oil rigs in
the United States of America is at its highest level in at least a quarter
of a century. It`s up 60 percent over last year.

And since President Obama took office, the daily production of crude
oil in this country has risen by a half a million barrels. But even with
the -- all this drilling taking place, where are gas prices? Well, going
through the roof, 3.50 around the country, right?

So Bachmann`s guarantee of two dollar a gallon gas, how else do we say
this other than it`s just coming out of thin air? Just like in 2008, when
she slapped on to the Psycho Talk scene by calling for an investigation of
anti-Americanism in Congress.

No wonder her campaign managers are running for the hills. They can`t
be associated with this. For Michele Bachmann to insist that she can bring
gas prices below two dollars a gallon is delusional Psycho Talk.

Well, it`s going to be the mother of all wars. That`s how billionaire
right wing activist Charles Koch described the upcoming 2012 election.
Coming up, we have the audio he doesn`t want you to hear.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, hundreds of conservative elites
attended a private Colorado retreat in June. So why are we talking about
it now? The event was hosted by right wing activist billionaire brothers
Charles and David Koch. Today "Mother Jones Magazine" obtained audio from
this top secret strategy session.

The Kochs have funneled millions into the Tea Party movement,
influenced the outcome of the Wisconsin recalls, and now have their sights
set on the next presidential election. Here`s Charles Koch addressing the


CHARLES KOCH, KOCH INDUSTRIES: But we`ve been talking about we have
Saddam Hussein. This is the mother of all wars we`ve got in the next 18
months for the life or death of this country.

so I`m not going to do this to put any pressure on anyone here, mind
you. This is not pressure. But if this -- if this makes your heart feel
glad and you want to be more forthcoming, then so be it.


SCHULTZ: Phillip Ellender, head of the government and public affairs
at Koch Industries, specifically addressed Mr. Koch`s comments through a
statement released on the company`s website. Quote, "to be clear, Mr. Koch
was not referring to President Obama in his remarks. He was referring to
the, quote, `mother of all wars` comment made by Saddam Hussein on the eve
of the first Gulf War."

Charles Koch then went on to recognize donors who he says gave money
to the cause. Lots of money.


KOCH: What I want to do is recognize not all of our great partners,
but those partners who have given more than a billion -- a million -- no
billion. Well, I was thinking of Obama and his billion dollar campaign.
So I thought we got to do better than that.

You can`t run on these deals. No, I`m not -- I`m going to go easy on
you. More than a million over the last 12 months. If you want to kick in
a billion, believe me, we will have a special seminar just for you.


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Brad Friedman, an investigative journalist
at Mr. Friedman obtained the audio just played for you from
"Mother Jones Magazine."

Also joining us tonight, Mike Papantonio, host of the nationally
syndicated "Ring of Fire" radio show.

Great to have both of you with us tonight. Brad, what does this tell
us about the Koch Brothers? What does this audio tell us? Does this prove
that they`re just in it to win it at all costs?

BRAD FRIEDMAN, BRADBLOG.COM: Well, they certainly are in it to win it
at all costs. They`ve gone to extraordinary lengths to raise an
extraordinary amount of money, and to keep it all secret, as they did at
their seminar in Veil, Colorado, playing -- going so far as to play pink
noise around the outside of this event to keep anybody outside from
listening in.

They`re playing for keeps, these folks, that`s for sure.

SCHULTZ: Mike, your impressions of what`s going down with the Koch
Brothers. I mean, they`ve gone from Wisconsin to Ohio to Michigan. Now
they`re setting their sights at the big prize, the White House.

election is nothing short of a battle for this country, it`s a special kind
of country they`re talking about, Ed. It`s the who`s who of America`s Grey
Poupon crowd. They represent this self-appointed aristocracy.

The people in that room that he was talking to are people who think
just like he do, the same polo crowd, that country club crowd that has made
this a gated community, want to continue making it a gated community.

They want America to return to the gilded age, Ed. That`s where they
make decisions. They think America is too stupid to make decisions. So --
and they`re -- in their oddball little minds, they do believe this is a
battle to death in this country.

It`s a very scary kind of thing once you understand that they honestly
believe that the typical American is just too damn stupid to make good
decisions for themselves and they`re the ones that are going to make it for

SCHULTZ: Brad, what do you make of Koch Industries spokesman coming
out so fast with the response to the audio?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it wasn`t very fast. In fact, I had been trying for
days to get comment from them on that Saddam Hussein line, over and over
again. They chose to not comment until it got out and they were
embarrassed by it. But I had asked them about that very specifically.

If they want to change the goalpost now and say, well, we weren`t
comparing Obama to Saddam Hussein, what we were actually doing is
appreciatively quoting Saddam Hussein, well, you know, we have got the
audio in full at The story`s at

We are transparent about what we do. And I think folks can take a
look at that information and decide for themselves what Charles Koch was
really saying in those remarks.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, match up the Republican nominee, which, in
my opinion, is going to be Governor Perry from Texas and the Koch Brothers.
How does that marriage work?

PAPANTONIO: Well, it`s perfect for them. Look, Rick Perry`s the guy
who`s going to make regulations disappear more. No laws, no regulations
for companies like the Koch Industry that pollute our air, ruin our water,
poison our children.

Perry is perfect for that. Look what he`s done to Texas. He`s
perfect for the inheritance billionaire baby taxes crowd, that says we
don`t want to pay any taxes. He`s going to make those taxes disappear.

This is a guy who wants unions to disappear, labor to take us to a
side paying kind of America.

SCHULTZ: They`ll take him over Romney, Mike? They`ll take Perry over

PAPANTONIO: Absolutely. Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Brad Friedman -- go ahead, Brad, quickly.

FRIEDMAN: Perry was at that event as well.


FRIEDMAN: Perry was at that event as well. And tomorrow, we`ll
reveal the keynoter at that event at

SCHULTZ: OK, look forward to that. Brad Friedman, Mike Papantonio,
thanks for joining us.

In our survey tonight, are Republicans at war with the middle class?
Ninety four percent of you said yes.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. Lawrence O`Donnell with "THE
LAST WORD" starts now. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night.


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