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The Ed Show for Thursday, September 8, 2011

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Guests: Bernie Sanders, Bob Shrum, Emanuel Cleaver, Keith Ellison, Donna
Edwards, Larry Cohen, Lizz Winstead, Mike Papantonio, Jim Moore

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. Welcome to THE ED SHOW
tonight from New York.

Big speech. I hope Senator Jim DeMint liked it. The president has
thrown down the gauntlet to Republicans. Put your country over your party
and pass the American Jobs Act.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


thing to do right now. You should pass it. And I intend to take that
message to every corner of this country.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The president went big and Republicans went
into hiding.

Tonight, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders on the size of the president`s

We`ll get reaction from labor, from the progressive caucus, from the
Congressional Black Caucus.

And the politics of it all with Bob Shrum, "Ring of Fire" radio host
Mike Papantonio, and "Daily Show" co-creator Lizz Winstead.

And we`ll go back to the scene of the crime. Rick Perry tossed out
the red meat on Social Security. Today, the Republican base is eating it

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I want to applaud Perry for
hanging in and sticking with it.


SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us, folks.

Tremendous determination shown by the president tonight to engage the
Congress -- I loved it. With a backdrop of 9.1 percent unemployment and
completely dysfunctional congress, once again, the president out there is
trying to get it done. He laid out his American Jobs Act. The president
put a clear semi-detailed package on the table and challenged the
Republicans to get in the game, to help America out, create jobs.

President Obama said that there should be nothing controversial about
his plan.


OBAMA: There should be nothing commercial about this piece of
legislation. Everything in here is the kind of proposal that`s been
supported by both Democrats and Republicans, including many who sit here
tonight. And everything in this bill will be paid for, everything.


OBAMA: The purpose of the American jobs act is simple, to put more
people back to work and more money in the pockets of those that are


SCHULTZ: Everything is going to be paid for? Well, that means cuts
are on the way. We`ll get to that in a moment.

Republicans so far refused to spend a dime to create American jobs.
President Obama told them how he plans to pay for his $447 billion package.


OBAMA: Here`s the other thing I want the American people to know.
The American jobs act will not add to the deficit, it will be paid for.
And here`s how.


OBAMA: The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending
by about a trillion in the next 10 years. It also charges this Congress to
come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas.

Tonight, I am asking you to increase that amount so it covers the full
cost of the American Jobs Act, and a week from Monday, I`ll be releasing a
more ambitious deficit plan -- a plan that will not only cover the cost of
this jobs bill but stabilize our debt in the long run.


SCHULTZ: Next up, how does this play with the base? President Obama
told Democrats to basically bite the bullet on Medicare and Medicaid, and
told Republicans rich people need to pay their fair share and sacrifice.


OBAMA: I realize there are some in my party that don`t think we
should make any changes at all to Medicare and Medicaid, and I understand
their concerns. But here`s the truth. Millions of Americans rely on
Medicare in their retirement, and millions more will do so in the future.
They pay for this benefit during their working years. They earn it.

But with an aging population and rising healthcare costs, we are
spending too fast to sustain the program, and if we don`t gradually reform
the system, while protecting current beneficiaries, it won`t be there when
future retirees need it. We have to reform Medicare to strengthen it. And
I`m also --


OBAMA: I`m also well aware that there are many Republicans that don`t
believe we should raise taxes on those that are most fortunate and can best
afford it. But here`s what every American knows. While most people in
this country struggle to make ends meet, a few of the most affluent
citizens and most profitable corporations enjoy tax breaks and loopholes
nobody else gets.


SCHULTZ: Got to admit, Medicare is a tough sell to the Democrats, and
so will the president`s proposal to cut corporate tax rates.


OBAMA: I`ll also offer ideas to reform a corporate tax code hat
stands as monument to special influence in Washington. By eliminating
pages of loopholes and deductions, we can lower one of the highest
corporate tax rates in the world.


SCHULTZ: And the president said this bill is about priorities.


OBAMA: Should we keep tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires or
put teachers back to work so our kids can graduate and ready for college in
good jobs?


OBAMA: Right now, we can`t afford to do both. This isn`t political
grandstanding. This isn`t class warfare. This is simple math. This is
simple math. These are real choices.

These are real choices that we`ve got to make, and I`m pretty sure I
know what most Americans would choose. It`s not even close. And it`s time
for us to do what`s right for our future.


SCHULTZ: And President Obama warned Congress he will not stand for
the repeal of the healthcare bill, Dodd-Frank, and other consumer
protections. The president also drew a line in the sand which no president
has ever done before on collective bargaining.


OBAMA: I reject the idea we need to ask people to choose between
their jobs and their safety. I reject the argument that says for the
economy to grow, we have to roll back protections that ban hidden fees by
credit card companies, or rules that keep our kids from being exposed to
mercury, or laws that prevent the health insurance industry from
shortchanging patients. I reject the idea we have to strip collective
bargaining rights to compete in a global economy.



SCHULTZ: A great response and deservedly so. This is the first time
a president on national television said anything like that about collective
bargaining. The president called for the order from the American people.


OBAMA: What`s guided us from the start of this crisis hasn`t been the
search for a silver bullet, it`s been a commitment to stay at it, to be
persistent, to keep trying every new idea that works, and listen to every
good proposal, no matter which party comes up with it. Regardless of the
arguments we`ve had in the past, regardless of the arguments we will have
in the future, this plan is the right thing to do right now. You should
pass it. And I intend to take that message to every corner of this


SCHULTZ: So what is the president saying tonight with that statement?
Look, it`s me versus you if we don`t get this done. He`s ready to go on
the campaign trail. He feels like he has the wind in his back, the
American people are out there polling, saying that they want 80 percent of
Congress replaced.

The president could not have been more determined tonight and more to
the point about what the priorities of this country need to be at this
time. You want to be a party member or do you want to be an American?
That`s what I got from the president.

Get your cell phones out, I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: will Republicans put country over politics and support the jobs
will? Text A for yes, text B for no to 622639. You can always go to our
blog and lay a comment there at We got the results coming up
later in the show.

Joining me now is Vermont senator, independent Senator Bernie Senator.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight. You have been undoubtedly
a force when it comes for working families, and sticking up for what
they`ve got to hold onto in this country. Are you a little nervous about
the president tonight talking about Americans having to serve it up and
reform Medicare and Medicaid? What do you make of it?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, the devil is going to be in
the details.

The question is what kind of reforms the president is talking about.
If, for example, in terms of Medicare, we begin negotiating prescription
drug prices with the pharmaceutical industry, we can save billions and
billions of dollars. Ed, that`s a good reform.

If he means by that raising the eligibility age to get Medicare from
65 to 67 -- that`s a bad reform. When you talk about healthcare, we can
never forget that our nation spends almost twice as much per person on
healthcare as any other nation does.

So, we can make a lot of reforms to make our system more cost
effective. It shouldn`t mean throwing people off of Medicare or raising
the eligibility age for Medicare.

SCHULTZ: Senator, it`s all about the money, isn`t it? I mean, $447
billion that`s going to be paid for, that means more cuts are on the way.
But yet I didn`t hear the president tonight say anything about Iraq and


SCHULTZ: You want to get to the budget? Go to the wars and end them.
What about that?

SANDERS: Well, I think you`re absolutely right. We have tripled
military spending since 1997. We`re spending $160 billion a year on the
wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I think it is time to bring the troops home as quickly as possible.
It`s the right thing to do. We can save substantial sums of money.

Ed, the other issue out there is the president touched on a number of
enormously important themes -- infrastructure, rehiring teachers, summer
jobs for kids, extending unemployment. All of those are good things.

One of the concerns that I have is most of his effort is going into
tax breaks. And I`m not quite sure that the tax breaks route is as
effective as direct investment in terms of creating jobs.

SCHULTZ: He gave the Republicans tonight what they`ve been asking for
for months, and that`s corporate tax breaks, reducing the rate from 35 to
25, although he did not throw out a specific number, but he talked about
reduction, on the hope he can close some loopholes which Republicans have
been against all along.

So which is it? What can he get? What will Congress go along with?

SANDERS: Well, I`ll tell you, nobody knows the answer now, but this
is what I did like. He said he was going to get out and talk to the
American people. Demand the American people to pressure Congress to
address the horrendous jobs crisis that we currently face. And if he does
that and does it well, we can turn this thing around, put the Republicans
for a change on the defensive.

We got 16 percent of our people are unemployed, underemployed. We
need a major jobs program and need it now.

SCHULTZ: All right. Do you think he will get any help quickly? I
mean, Mr. Boehner tonight said it has some merit. It was not the hostile
response in which we are used to from Republicans.

Is there a ray of hope here?

SANDERS: I think there is. If the American people stand up and say
no more tax breaks for the rich, let`s rebuild America, let`s create the
jobs we need, we can pin this thing.

SCHULTZ: All right. Senator Sanders, thanks for your time tonight.

SANDERS: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Now, let`s turn now to Democratic strategist Bob Shrum. The
president says he is going on the road and take it to the American people.
In fact, the first stop is going to be in Virginia and Ohio to sell this in
the backyard of Cantor and Boehner. That`s pretty political, isn`t it?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think he took it to the country
because I think this was a speech not to Congress really but to the
country. It was passionate. It was plain-spoken and eloquent. Somebody
scrubbed all the Washington-isms out of it.

So, you didn`t hear a lot of technical language, people could
understand it, and I think the president displayed and showed the country
that he was the one out there who was going to fight for the middle class,
fight for jobs, fight for ordinary, hard working, out of work Americans.

Did you watch John Boehner during the speech? The tan seemed to fade
as it went on because they thought the president was going to under-
deliver. He raised expectations very high. He delivered tonight.

SCHULTZ: He gave the Republicans a lot tonight, Bob. He told them it
was going to be paid for, and it is $447 billion. That`s music to the
Republicans` ears. They have been talking spending cuts all along.

Also the corporate tax rate, he wants to drop that.

I mean, wasn`t it a good night for Republicans?

SHRUM: I don`t think it was a good night for Republicans at all
because I think they are now sitting there, they must have some data, some
polling data showing they have taken on some real water because of what
happened in the debt ceiling fight, and they`re afraid they`re going to get
blamed if the country figures out and may be figuring it out that they see
economic ruin as their road to recovery.

By the way, on the corporate tax stuff, I think we ought to wait and
see the details because my guess is, that in the end, what you`ll have is a
lowering of the rate and closing of loopholes in one package that won`t be
passed separately. And as a result of that, corporations are actually
going to pay more in taxes and that`s going to help pay for this bill.

SCHULTZ: In theory, they hope it will if he can close loopholes. But
if the Republicans don`t go along with those loopholes, you won`t have a

SHRUM: Well, then, the rates won`t go down either, Ed, and the
corporations will be unhappy with the Republicans.

SCHULTZ: So, what do you make of the president saying, and I will
intend to take this message to every corner of the country? Is he flat out
saying look, we either do this deal or it is you versus me and I`m ready to
run against you?

SHRUM: I think that`s what he is saying. Look, all along, the White
House has said this election is not going to be a referendum. The
Republicans want it to be a referendum.

Are you unhappy? Do you think the economy is in trouble? Vote
against Obama.

This president is going to make it a choice. And like Harry Truman --
and you know what? He sounded like Harry Truman tonight.

SCHULTZ: Well, I was going to ask you about his demeanor tonight. He
was forceful.

SHRUM: Energy, lots of energy. He was really forceful.

And you could see the discomfort on the faces of some of the
Republicans. They didn`t want to applaud, but there were times they had to
get up and do it, and you could almost sense the relief among the
Democrats, the Barack Obama of 2008 was back and had taken command of the
bully pulpit.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, great to have you with us tonight. Thanks so

SHRUM: Great to be here, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of
the screen. We want to know what you think.

The president spoke passionately about the unemployed tonight. But up
next, I`ll talk with members of Congress that spent the summer talking
directly to jobless Americans. What did this speech mean for them?

And Rick Perry says Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. It`s red meat
for the far right. And now, the far right is hungry for more. Jim Moore
will be here to talk about that tonight from Texas.

You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Teachers, veterans, the unemployed, help for small
businesses -- the president covered a lot of ground and he defended
collective bargaining rights like we`ve never heard before. We`ll get
reaction from organized labor coming up later in the show. And I`ll talk
to a school teacher who was invited by the White House, by the president,
to go to the speech tonight.

But up next, the Congressional Black Caucus held job fairs across the
country this summer. Three prominent caucus members joined me with their
thoughts on the president`s speech.

Stay with us.



OBAMA: The people of this country work hard to meet their
responsibilities. The question tonight is whether we`ll meet ours. The
question is whether in the face of an on-going national crisis, we can stop
the political circus and actually do something to help the economy.


SCHULTZ: There are about -- well, 14 million out of work Americans
who need an answer to that question tonight. In tonight`s speech, it may
have offered solutions. But will Congress act on them any time soon?

I`m joined tonight by members of the Congressional Black Caucus, and
that is Congresswoman Donna Edwards of Maryland, Congressman Keith Ellison
of Minnesota, and chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, Congressman
Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri -- great to have all of you with us tonight.

Congressman Cleaver, let`s talk about the jobs fair that you folks
have been going to all summer long. Did you hear the president get the
message and did he return it the way it need to be sent to the American
people on the jobs issue?

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: There`s no question about it. We
went all over this country. We drew attention to lack of jobs by
Americans. There`s no question about what happened this summer. We drew
or attracted the attention of the president and of this nation for that
matter, so I am very satisfied with the direction the president is moving.

I think that this is a jolt to a jittery unemployment situation and a
jittery, sometimes uneasy economy. And the president stepped up to the
plate and did it in a very strong way.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Edwards, the Congressional Black Caucus at
times has been rather critical of President Obama for not going far enough.
He did mention black unemployment tonight, the youth of America that`s
struggling in many respects.

Does this bill have a chance? Do you think it will ring with
Republicans and get them in gear and get them into action?

REP. DONNA EDWARDS (D), MARYLAND: Well, I always thought the
president didn`t have to throw a Hail Mary pass, but he needed to go long
and he did that. What he said to the American people, for those of you
that are long term unemployed, we need to focus our energies on you. We
need to invest in research and development and innovation and
manufacturing. That`s about job creation. Looking at our nation`s
crumbling infrastructure, that`s about job creation.

And so, I actually feel like the president really spoke to the
American people, all sectors of the American public. But particularly
those that are among African-American communities among some of the highest

SCHULTZ: Congressman Ellison, there`s no question about it that the
president offered up some caveats to the Republicans tonight -- reducing
the corporate tax rate, telling the base that they have to take a haircut
on Medicare and Medicaid.

How is this going to play -- how is this going to play in the middle
of the country, and do you think Americans that have been hit so hard in
the middle class are willing to go even farther?

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Well, I really like the speech
tonight, and it did reflect what we in the progressive caucus heard all
summer as well. But those things I thought undermined what I thought was a
very good speech. By the end of the day, I think that closing corporate
loopholes, asking the military to give more, to get Americans back to work,
other ways to go and to say that we have to take it out of Medicare and
Medicaid I thought was unfortunate. I don`t think it will play well.

But at the same time, he started a national debate.

Last point, I think it`s important to reform Medicare by allowing
Medicare Part D to negotiate for drug prices, which is something that the
V.A. does now. Perhaps there are some savings there.

SCHULTZ: What did you hear that really impressed you, Congressman
Cleaver, when it comes to putting Americans back to work? The word
infrastructure was not in the speech tonight. But there was a lot of talk
about redoing schools, 35,000 schools, making sure veterans had an
opportunity to get a job when they came home.

What about all of that? What did you hear? What was most appealing
when it came to creating jobs?

CLEAVER: Well, the president was very targeted in his method of
addressing unemployment. He targeted veterans coming home from Iraq and
Afghanistan, saying in this bill there would be tax breaks for corporations
that hired them. He targeted young people, summer jobs. He targeted the
long term unemployed. He targeted small businesses and people who are in
desperate need for a little more money.

SCHULTZ: Do you think he felt pressure from your caucus, Congressman
Cleaver? I mean, do you think he felt I got to step up, say something
strong tonight to the African-American community in this country?

CLEAVER: Well, I think he obviously heard what we were doing and
saying, but he stepped up to the plate. But he didn`t do it in a nasty
way. He understands clearly that he can`t -- he`s going to have difficulty
getting things across in a cross way. So, he did it in a very pleasant
way, but he was tough and I liked that.

SCHULTZ: Well, there was no mention of the wars tonight. And if you
want to go to the money and if you want to find spending cuts, there`s no
better place than Iraq and Afghanistan.

Congresswoman Edwards, what do you make of that?

EDWARDS: Well, I mean, I agree with you, but I do think it is going
to be incumbent on Congress to be focused on how we actually move a jobs
package forward. I mean, what the president was saying to us tonight is --
I`m going to layout these ideas, and Congress, you have to act on them.
And, you know, one of the ways we can act on them I`m sure we can agree,
one of the ways to act on them is getting ourselves disengaged from Iraq
and from Afghanistan. I mean, that clearly has, in my view, has to be part
of the picture.

But what I like that I heard from the president is that he`s saying
he`s going to go around the country and fight for this. We need the
president to fight for this package so we can do our jobs in the United
States Congress. And talk to Republicans frankly about some of the
Republican ideas that will help move the country forward. And it`s
actually should be bipartisan, always has been, to rebuild our roads,
bridges and all our infrastructure.

SCHULTZ: And, Congressman Ellison, do you feel confident that this
might be a new beginning with John Boehner, with a conciliatory statement
he released after the speech tonight? I mean, is this possibly a new day
dawning and the Republicans are actually willing to do something within the
next window of 14 months before the election?

ELLISON: You know, Ed, I`m an eternal optimist. And I believe there
is a way to do this. I think we`re going to need the American people as
Donna just pointed out.

But, you know, look, some of these ideas were brought from both sides
of the aisle. There`s absolutely no reason for them to reject out of hand
and so far, they haven`t done so. So, at this point, we`re just going to
push hard, hope for the best from the other side of the aisle.

SCHULTZ: I appreciate all three of you joining us tonight on the

I must say that I think the president knocked it out of the park
tonight. He had the right tone, said all the right things, hit all the
right bases and he challenged the Republicans. But just give it a few

I don`t think the Republicans are going to do anything. Their stated
goal is to defeat this president. I hope this is the last olive branch,
and I hope the president does go out on the road and take it to the people,
run against this Congress. I don`t trust the Republicans.

Congressman Cleaver, Ellison, and Edwards, thank you for being here

We`ll look at weather the president said what he needed to say to the
workers of America. The president of the Communication Workers of America
will join me next.

And we`ll talk to one of the president`s guests at the speech tonight,
a third grade teacher from the state of Ohio. You see, her job is on the
chopping block, after her state`s governor, John Kasich, slashed education

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. A big discussion all this year
about wage earners and rights in the news this season. Well, tonight,
President Obama stood up for collective bargaining and was unequivocal.


OBAMA: I reject the idea that we have to strip away collective
bargaining rights to compete in a global economy.


SCHULTZ: The president also pushed for new construction across the
country, which is vitally need and would provide a major boost to


OBAMA: The idea for a big boost in construction is supported by
America`s largest business organization, and America`s largest labor
organization. It`s the kind of proposal that`s been supported in the past
by Democrats and Republicans alike.

You should pass it right away.


SCHULTZ: And the president called for the passage of trade
agreements, saying they would help American companies sell their products
and would help workers whose jobs have been effected by global competition.
That`s a big story.

Let`s bring in the president of the Communication Workers of America,
Larry Cohen. Larry, good to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: Larry, let`s be very clear on the trade agreements. In
totality, where is organized labor on the trade agreements sitting on the
table right now?

COHEN: In totality, we don`t like them. I mean, to compete in the
global economy, we do need to have some industrial policy. We need to put
American jobs first, as the president told us tonight. And we wouldn`t
start with those trade agreements.

Those are the Bush trade agreements. But I do think that the
president tonight, as you said, hit it out of the park. He focused on
jobs. That`s what American workers, whether they`re union members or not,
want to hear. And he talked about construction jobs. He talked about
infrastructure, including high speed broadband. And most importantly, as
you said, he talked about bringing back collective bargaining rights.

We have been in a race to the bottom, cheapest labor, worst pollution.
We need to turn it around. He said I`m there with you. I think for us,
it`s about movement building.

We have to take what he said, as you just played it a minute ago, and
we have to be out there in the streets. We have to be fighting back. We
have to be energizing our members and say OK, it is up to us now. He
started this march. Where are we going to take it?

SCHULTZ: He gave you a line tonight. He said I reject the idea that
we have to strip away collective bargaining rights to compete in a global
economy. That`s one sentence. And no president has ever gone on national
television and been so direct about organized labor. Is that enough to do
all the motivating that`s going to be needed to be done after what you
heard in the debate from Perry the other night?

COHEN: Not enough at all, but we have to take that. It`s similar
when President Roosevelt said, if I was a worker, the first thing I would
do is join a union. That was only one line. We have to build a movement.
We have to take that up. We have to say to Republicans, as late as the
presidency of Gerald Ford, he signed an extension of collective bargaining
rights in this country. And a majority of Republicans in that Congress
voted for it, this extended bargaining rights to healthcare workers.

What`s happened to them? Where did they get lost along the way? Why
is a private sector function like bargaining rights become like a four
letter word for almost every Republican in the Congress?

SCHULTZ: So the president is now saying that he is going to with you
on collective bargaining. But on the key issue of trade agreements, it
sounds like he wants them passed. And the other thing is the word
infrastructure, it has been pointed out by a number of media people tonight
on this network -- Chuck Todd said the word infrastructure was not in the
speech tonight, although a lot of references to jobs and projects and what

But another word that was not in there was outsourcing. And I almost
felt, if there was one criticism of this speech tonight, it would be the
president did not take outsourcing head on and say, damn it, keep these
jobs in America. He talked about American made and American products, but
he really didn`t take it to the corporations, did he?

COHEN: No, and I think part of that we need to look to leadership in
the private sector, both workers, our movement, and corporations. So when
AT&T said two weeks ago, we will bring back 5,000 call center jobs, we need
to take that up. We need to say, OK, GE, what are you ready to do? They
have done some things.

OK, IBM, are you going to stop taking every job out of this country?
So I think, you know, you`re absolutely right. Off shoring has to got to
come right behind this speech, lots of things to follow. But we got off to
a good start tonight.

SCHULTZ: OK, off to a good start. So you don`t feel like organized
labor walks away disappointed tonight, after listening to the speech, that
he is your guy and you`ll work hard for him? Is that what I`m hearing?

COHEN: Yes. You`re hearing that we`re fired up. We`re ready to go.
But we`re going to build from here, out in the streets, as well as at the
ballot box.

SCHULTZ: All right. Larry Cohen, Communication Workers of America,
thanks for joining us tonight. I appreciate it.

Texas Governor Rick Perry isn`t backing off his claim that Social
Security is a Ponzi scheme. Next, Jim Moore provides the Perry analysis.

President Obama and Governor Rick Perry had big nights back to back.
And it may be a preview of what we`ll see if they ever go face to face.

But Lizz Winstead and Mike Papantonio will give commentary on that.



to tell our kids that are 25 or 30 years old today, you`re paying into a
program that`s going to be there. Anybody that`s for the status quo with
Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids.


SCHULTZ: Every talk show in America was on that sound byte today.
That was Texas Governor Rick Perry, tossing out some red meat to the base
last night. The Republican presidential frontrunner, well, he didn`t shy
away from his previous claims that Social Security is what he calls a Ponzi
scheme. In fact, it`s catching fire.

And sure enough, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, they are the cheerleaders
and they`re eating it up.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I want to applaud Perry for
hanging in and sticking with it. He wrote the book, "Fed Up," and he has
got the description in the book of Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. How
could it not be a Ponzi scheme?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Social Security, this notion of a Ponzi scheme
-- a lot of people do believe that it is a Ponzi scheme.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His point about it being a Ponzi scheme is

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: People of all ages, don`t they know it
is a Ponzi scheme.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t disagree that it is a Ponzi scheme. It
is a Ponzi scheme.


SCHULTZ: So the Perry army is building in the media. Joining me now
is "Huffington Post" contributor Jim Moore. He`s the author of the
forthcoming book "Adios Mofo." And I think we found out last night why
Rick Perry will make America miss George W. Bush. Great title. It`s
almost like you knew what the debate was going to be.

He has Limbaugh on his side. He`s got Fox News and the Koch Brothers.
What else does he need to take down the Romney camp, in your opinion, Mr.

JIM MOORE, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": I don`t think he needs much.
Remember that thing last night about the Ponzi scheme, where he prefaced
his comments, Ed, by saying people my age, in their 60s, they don`t have to
worry about anything. That was a message to Florida. That was a message
to seniors that, look, I know you`ve got coming to you what you deserve.

But his whole approach on this Ponzi scheme thing is an appeal to
young voters, to say hey, I`m going to bat for you, and I`m going to make
sure what you`re paying into comes back to you. He`s going to have to have
young voters in a general election to win. That`s who he was talking to
with this thing.

But remember also in his book, "Fed Up," he suggested that there`s no
way constitutionally that thing should exist, that Social Security should
exist. He went a little too far and he got himself in some trouble
suggesting that Social Security should go away.

SCHULTZ: But the Romney camp jumped all over the Ponzi scheme comment
and also made the case that you can`t get rid of Social Security. You were
totally accurate, and I believe I was, too, in saying that he never said he
wanted to get rid of it. He wants to transform it. And he wants to make
sure that it is going to work for the next generation. That`s how he`s
talking to the young voters.

But the bottom line is did Romney make a mistake? Because he, too,
was for privatization of Social Security back in 2007 when Bush tried to do
it. This man is on record. Yet he`s trying to pin it on Perry as if he`s
some kind of an extremist. What do you make of all that?

MOORE: Well, Mitt Romney`s big mistake last night, in addition to
what you described in Social Security, was trying to run a general election
campaign. He was messaging to the general election as if he already had
the nomination in hand. He was talking to people in Pennsylvania, in the

And Rick Perry is still talking to the people in the primary process.
And Mitt Romney is going to continue to have trouble in the south, because
of his religion and because of the positions you just described. Rick is
not worried right now about the general election, beyond this notion that
he does want to privatize Social Security.

And people who are thinking about voting for him because of that need
to remember that if he becomes president, he`s going to give a portion of
that to Wall Street and allow them to manage that account.

SCHULTZ: And they`ve got to love that. It was corporate meat last
night from Rick Perry, I think. Quickly, on a scale of one to ten, how
much better will Perry be in the next debate?

MOORE: He gets better all the time. Rick is one of those guys -- you
saw last night, Ed, that he stayed very much on message. He bridged away
from every question to say we need less government, less regulation, less
taxes, free up the American people. You will hear more and more of that.
And it is going to get old.

SCHULTZ: With the times you have been on this show, you actually gave
us the debate before we watched it last night. You definitely know the
guy. Jim, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you.

MOORE: Thanks, sir.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Republican Governors Like John Kasich have spent
2011 balancing their budgets on the behalf of middle class folks like
firefighters, policemen and teachers. One Cleveland teacher who is about
to lose her job was in the room for the president`s speech tonight. She
joins me next. Stay with us.



OBAMA: Pass this jobs bill and thousands of teachers in every state
will go back to work. These are the men and women charged with preparing
our children for a world where the competition has never been tougher. But
while they`re adding teachers in places like South Korea, we`re laying them
off in droves.

It`s unfair to our kids. It undermines their future and ours. And it
has to stop.

Pass this bill. And put our teachers back in the classroom where they


SCHULTZ: Ohio Governor John Kasich is causing teachers to be laid off
in droves, as the president said. Kasich`s 2011 budget cut education
funding by 11.5 percent. As a result, an estimated 10,000 Ohio teachers
could end up losing their jobs.

The president invited one of those teachers to sit near the First Lady
in the House Chamber tonight as he delivered his jobs speech. She joins us
tonight. Nicole Gentile, a third grade teacher from Cleveland, Ohio.

Nicole, thanks for your time tonight. That sound byte that we just
played of President Obama, did you feel like you still had hope to keep
your job, because you`re set to be laid off in October? How do you feel?

optimistic. I just really hope that this job bill goes through fast. We
need to get our teachers back into the classrooms and working with the

SCHULTZ: Who do you blame for your job being in jeopardy and your

GENTILE: You know what? I think there`s a lot of finger pointing
going on. I think what we need to do is put -- get the people that are
actually in office to do the job that we put them there to do, start
working for us and stop working against us.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the president was strong on that message

GENTILE: I feel that he was, yes.

SCHULTZ: What about Senate Bill 5 in Ohio? Your thoughts on that?
Does it effect you? And how do you think it will unfold on the recall of
that bill?

GENTILE: I am very confident -- SB-5 is now Issue 2. And I am very
confident that we will get that bill voted down. And I loved what the
president said about stop stripping away collective bargaining rights.
Stripping away collective bargaining rights is not the answer.

SCHULTZ: The president will be in Ohio on Tuesday. What do you think
he`s going to hear from the people of that state?

GENTILE: I think he`s going to hear exactly what I just said. Stop -
- get our governor, Governor Kasich, to stop worrying about collective
bargaining rights, start working with us, stop working against us, and get
our teachers back in classrooms where they belong.

SCHULTZ: Nicole Gentile, when you found out you were going to be in
the chamber tonight, what was that like? I`ve been there. It is pretty
exciting to see it all unfold. How did you feel about it tonight?

GENTILE: It has been one of the most exciting days of my life. It`s
been fantastic. It was an honor to meet the president and the First Lady.

SCHULTZ: First time you`re there, it`s kind of cool to see everybody
in person, isn`t it?

GENTILE: It is. When we were done, we got to see Hillary Clinton
walk right by us. That was pretty cool.

SCHULTZ: There you go. Nicole, thanks for joining us. Keep up the
fight. I hope it all works out for you, I hope they do pass this bill, get
something done.

We haven`t heard the last on President Obama and Rick Perry until Lizz
Winstead and Mike Papantonio have their say. We love giving them that
opportunity. That`s next on THE ED SHOW. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: President Obama had a big night tonight. He may have laid
the ground work for rebuilding America. Just two nights ago, Governor Rick
Perry of Texas made his big debut on the presidential stage. Lizz Winstead
and Mike Papantonio, they`re not short on words and they won`t be tonight.
They`re next.


SCHULTZ: Finally tonight, for more on the president`s speech and last
night`s crazy debate, let`s bring in two of my favorites, Mike Papantonio
and -- well, wait a minute, this is Lizz Winstead.

LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: I am not Mike Papantonio.

SCHULTZ: I just thought we would play a joke on you. Also Mike
Papantonio joins us.

Mike, you first. How did the president do tonight, Mike? He talked
about going after Medicare, Medicaid, corporate tax breaks? What`s
happening here?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: On the cheerleading side of
it, he did great. I have to say, he did great. His idea of pass this jobs
bill now -- every time he said it, John Boehner looked a little more
creeped out. He let the Republicans know that that`s a message he`s going
to take all over the country.

And Republicans are out of their comfort zone when they can`t whine
and complain. He threatened them tonight. He said if you whine and
complain, I`m going to take this to the American people. The problem is
most progressives wanted to hear him talk a little tougher.

I think they wanted to hear him talk about things like you can`t --
don`t ship our jobs overseas. If you ship our jobs overseas, you`re not
going to get subsidies. You`re not going to get government contracts.
You`re not going to get tax breaks.

He needed to talk about things like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce
attacking, or trying to encourage globalization with CAFTA and NAFTA and
how maybe that`s not working for the American worker.

So those are things we wanted to hear. But overall, he was on his
game. He is starting to -- he is getting ready for the campaign. But the
point is this: you know, every now and then he does a little too much
compromising. I thought that`s maybe what took place again tonight.

WINSTEAD: Yes. I think personality wise -- you know what I think is
interesting is watching him tonight, you saw a real president, as opposed
to last night, when you saw these sort of side show, you know, morality
barkers, just up there spewing about nothing, you know.

The fact that it was a serious time. There was no evolution debate.
There was no is there science. It was like, this is a real person with
real ideas, instead of these freaks who couldn`t possibly --

SCHULTZ: What about Rick Perry?

WINSTEAD: You know what, here`s the deal: before Obama can fix any
infrastructure or do anything, he has got to build -- there has to be a
bridge to the Republicans. They can`t even get a bridge going, never mind
getting that going.

Rick Perry literally -- I have said it before. I`ll say it again. He
is the Dollar Store George Bush. There`s nothing about him that`s
interesting. He was so badly squeezing himself not to have the yea hoo
come out as much as possibly could. He looked like he was in his dad`s
suit. All of it was just orchestrated. It`s very pathetic.

SCHULTZ: Is he dangerous, Mike Papantonio?

PAPANTONIO: He is very dangerous. The good thing about the debate,
though -- the good thing about it only being Rick Perry is that the herd
has been thinned. And that intellectual extravaganza we saw -- Gingrich is
gone. Santorum is gone. Huntsman is gone.

So you have Michele Bachmann basically, who is a dead woman walking,
because the religious fringe has decided that they want -- they want a man
at the top of the ticket, a lunatic man, rather than a lunatic woman.

So the idea now -- yes, so right now, what it comes down to is she has
to be her submissive self, go home and do whatever crazy, washed up
politicians do at the end of their career. And I thought it was
interesting, her parting shot when she said that immigrants are narco-
terrorists. We`re going to miss lines like that.

But we had a great one from Rick Perry when he told us he could
compare himself to Galileo. Perry`s point was that he is being persecuted
for his stand -- his Dark Age stand on climate stand, even as Texas burns
down to ashes. Perry was never taught at Texas A&M, with his 2.1 GPA
degree, the same odd anti-science oddballs who are his followers today.
They would have burned Galileo at the state.

WINSTEAD: He also has his God wires crossed. Because as the fires
are raging in Texas and he`s praying for rain, it has not stopped raining
in New York and on the East Coast for three days.

SCHULTZ: Well, he has got -- let`s see -- Limbaugh. He`s got Fox
News. You have seen the entourage of right wing talkers that have
supported Rick Perry. He has got the Koch Brothers. Or is that a bridge
too far. Do you think he has the Koch Brothers, Mike?

PAPANTONIO: Yes, absolutely. The Koch Brothers -- the Koch Brothers,
in their mind, would love a Chris Christie VP and a Rick Perry presidential

SCHULTZ: What else does he need to win the nomination? If he has got
all this, what else does he need? He should be a shoe in from here on out.

PAPANTONIO: I think what he needs is for the Americans not to
understand what the man is about, which can happen. We saw with George
Bush, sometimes the Americans look to the camera and they say, gee, he
talks well, he looks like he`s a smart guy, and then, by the end of the
day, they end up getting it wrong. So he could win.

SCHULTZ: And Lizz, I want to ask you, was there some Saturday night
material there? There were a few --

WINSTEAD: Yes, there was.

SCHULTZ: There was a few gaps in some of the answers that were there.

WINSTEAD: Yes, he was kind of stumble-ina a little bit. It`s was
kind of like -- it`s always fun when you can see him trying to think, and
you can see what his handlers were telling him how he was supposed to be.
He`s trying to keep his posture.

SCHULTZ: He`s got to get that earpiece thing going.

WINSTEAD: I think you might be right.

SCHULTZ: Lizz Winstead, Mike Papantonio, always a pleasure. Great to
have you with us tonight.

Tonight in our survey, I asked will Republicans put country over
politics and support a jobs bill? Six percent of you say yes; 94 percent
of you say no. I`m a 94 percenter. I think there`s this new thing out
there called the GOP hustle. It`s a new dance.

They`ll dance around Obama`s speech, but they`re going to cut the
music off.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. You can listen to my radio show
at Sirius XM.


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