updated 9/16/2011 9:37:36 AM ET 2011-09-16T13:37:36

Guests: Jack Reall, Sherrod Brown, Tim Ryan, Mayor Michael Coleman, Sue
Taylor, Jack Reall, Nina Turner, Chris Redfern, Mark Sanders


ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW, tonight from Columbus, Ohio.

These Americans behind me tonight -- 10 years ago, they were made out
to be heroes, because they were. And they are today. Nothing`s changed.

These firefighters, this profession 10 years ago, every politician in
America was saying -- hey, they are the model of America. And now that we
have just celebrated the anniversary and observed the anniversary of 9/11,
10 years after the fact, these firefighters, they`re trade bait in state
budget negotiations here in Ohio.

I`ll stand with the nurses, I`ll stand with the teachers, and tonight,
I stand with the firefighters.

America, who are you with?

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: O-Eight (ph)! O-Eight!

AUDIENCE: Ohio!

SCHULTZ: O-Eight!

AUDIENCE: Ohio!

SCHULTZ: They love America. They love America.

Great to have you with us tonight, folks.

This is the scene in Columbus, Ohio, tonight. And just about a mile
from here is where the governor resides.

I`ll tell you what? I`ve got a chair for the governor right here.

(BOOS)

SCHULTZ: We`re waiting. I`d really like to talk to the governor on
THE ED SHOW, because I`ll ask him questions he won`t get on FOX about these
workers, you know what I mean?

Because, you see, John Kasich and his Ohio business buddies, they`re
trying to convince the residents of this stay that teachers, police
officers, firefighter -- hey, they`re living high on the hog.

Now, today, the "Toledo Blade" newspaper reported, we were there last
night, they reported on a study that was commissioned by Ohio business
leaders, which says that public employees receive more generous
compensation than the private sector employees do in this state.

Who was the study done by? Well, the American Enterprise Institute, a
right-wing think tank out of Washington, D.C.

(BOOS)

SCHULTZ: The report -- this isn`t worth the paper it`s printed on.
It shows public sector workers earned 43.3 percent more than private sector
employees. The study uses, I think, garbage math to equate job security to
a 10 percent bump in pay.

Kasich wants to turn public opinion against the people who educate our
can kids in the state, keep our streets safe, and protect the public.
Kasich wants to hammer these workers and line the pockets of his business
buddies.

(CHEERS)

SCHULTZ: The governor wants state employees to take a cut, but he
gave massive pay raises to his own chief of staff. Chief of staff Beth
Hanson got almost a 40 percent raise over Ted Strickland`s chief of staff.

(BOOS)

SCHULTZ: Hanson has taken a leave of absence to join a group
committed to keeping Senate Bill 5, the law of the land here in this state.

Now, last night, THE ED SHOW was in Toledo. We stayed at a place
called the Park Inn in Toledo. Looks like a normal hotel/motel in
downtown. It`s a $42 million complex. It was built 24 years ago.

Today, the "Toledo Blade" newspaper reported that the Park Inn was
sold to the Chinese investors for $3 million. This in addition to other
acquisitions that the Chinese have made in the city of Toledo.

I ask you to be a fair-minded American tonight. Is this really what
you want?

AUDIENCE: No! No!

SCHULTZ: Do you want foreign countries to come in and own our soil --
and to own our bricks and mortar, and to own our jobs, and to own our
economy?

I don`t care if you`re a hard right-wing conservative. I don`t care
if you`re a Republican and don`t agree with me every night on our show or
on my radio show. Explain to me, righties, how can you think that this is
a good thing, that China is buying up what we have in this country? Tell
me what the future is for our workers.

Ever been to China? I haven`t. I`ve heard all the stories. I`ve
read all the accounts about how they treat their workers.

Well, I`m going to have to go to China. I`m going to have to go to
China and find out if it`s really the truth, because last night when I was
in Toledo, Ohio, I saw the truth.

Because, you see, I`ve read about the empty buildings, I`ve read about
and heard all the stories about the manufacturing jobs being lost, but when
you drive by those buildings that are empty, it did something to me. And
when I picked up that paper this morning before I left Toledo to come here
to Columbus and I read that the Chinese have bought the complex that I just
slept in last night -- hell, I guess I`m a trivia question now. I was the
last guy to sleep in the Park Inn before they sold it to the Chinese.

I mean, please, for a moment, forget politics! How can we as
Americans believe this is the right way to go? I think about some of the
great Americans on the other side of the aisle, who served in World War II.
I think about Bob Dole, the former senator from Kansas, who spent 30 years
in the Senate and ran for president.

Mr. Dole, give your party some counseling right now. Give these folks
some words of wisdom.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: The sacrifices that your generation made for America is now
being sold off to the Chinese.

And you know what? Here`s what`s going to happen. Other foreign
countries are going to see what`s happening in America, and you know what
they`re going to do? Since we don`t have anybody that wants to play with
the cash and invest in American workers and factories, you know what
they`re going to do? The other countries, they`ll say, hey, we want to get
a piece of that action.

There`s this political angst going on in America right now. We`re
even fighting over firefighters. We`re saying that they make too much.

(APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: They`re saying that they`re living high on the hog.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, should Republicans stop using firefighters as political pawns?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639, and you can
always go to our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com.

I said at the start of this broadcast, I`m with the firefighters.
America, I`m asking you, America, who are you with?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Jack Reall. He is the president of the
Columbus Professional Firefighters Local 67.

Also with me tonight, U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio. And also,
Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, both have been in Ohio all their lives. They
know what this Buckeye State`s all about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You bet.

SCHULTZ: Chief Reall, I`ve got to ask you, you were -- where were you
10 years ago this week?

JACK REALL, COLUMBUS PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS: Ten years ago this
week, I was in New York City, working night shift right now on the pile at
the World Trade Center, searching for my colleagues, firefighters from the
FDNY and the -- at the time, we thought tens of thousands of victims from
the September 11th attacks.

SCHULTZ: And 10 years after the fact, here you are, fighting to save
what?

REALL: I`m fighting to save my colleagues again. They just happen to
be aboveground and they`re the ones that work with me every day.

SCHULTZ: Can you believe you`re in this position?

(CHEERS)

REALL: No, I can`t believe I`m in this position. It`s -- as I told
the senator, it`s, at the same time, embarrassing and disgusting.

SCHULTZ: They`re getting kicked, aren`t you?

REALL: Oh, we`re getting kicked. I was driving down the street the
other day and had a person roll down their window and tell me firefighters
are worthless. And it`s because of this rhetoric that`s being spewed out
that we`re overpaid, we are lazy, we`re thugs. It`s just ridiculous.

SCHULTZ: Senator Brown, what is Senate Bill 5, if it stays in place -
- what will it mean to this state, the fabric of this state?

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Well, it`s the beginning of the end of
the middle class. I mean, what unions have meant, whether they`re public
employ or private sector unions, they`ve meant a strong middle class in our
state.

We`re the third leading manufacturing state in America. Only New York
and California make more things that we do. They`re much bigger states.
Our people know how to make things in Ohio. And it`s been the union
movement, it`s been firefighters and police and teachers and autoworkers
and steel workers and chemical workers who have created the middle class
and created prosperity.

And my wife, her dad carried a union card in Ashtabula at the power
plant for 37 years. That`s how she got to go to Kent State and that`s how
she got to become a writer and work for a newspaper. And that`s what --
that`s what a union card does. That`s what the middle class is about.

And you know, I look at -- we`ve got a lot of problems in this state.
We`ve got a lot of job loss. And I was -- I thought, as I know Tim Ryan
did, the beginning of this year, that the governor and the legislature
would go to work, how do we create jobs?

Instead, they went after workers, they went after bargaining rights,
they went after voter rights, they went after women`s rights. And they
divided this state when it didn`t need to be divided. And that`s what --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: Congressman Ryan, how can, in your opinion, can a governor
justify attacking middle class workers wanting more of their pension,
wanting more of their health care, wanting to cut their taxes, you take
away their voice in the workplace, yet giving his staff a 40 percent raise
in some instances?

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: I think when you compare him to Governor
Strickland, Governor Strickland asked everybody to sacrifice. His own
staff, everyone across the state had to sacrifice. Public employees had to
sacrifice. And everybody was in it together.

Now, there`s an elite group that doesn`t have to sacrifice at all.
Not only is it the, you know, his staff members, members of the legislative
staff are getting raises and the legislature up to 33 percent raise for the
Republican staffers there, but also, they cut the estate tax in the state.

So, how can you cut the estate tax for the top 1 percent and come all
these firemen here who are making $40,000, $50,000 a year who are trying to
feed their families, send them to school, trying to create a better future
for them, at the same time, you`re going out of your way to cut taxes for
the top wealthiest people in the state. It`s ridiculous.

SCHULTZ: There is no doubt that if the president gets this American
jobs bill passed that it will benefit Ohio. In fact, Ohio will get the
sixth highest amount of money than any other state and it will have a
tremendous effect on teachers, on firefighters.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: What are the chances of getting any Republican help in the
house?

RYAN: Well, I don`t think it will be much. I think they`ll go for
some of the payroll tax cuts and maybe some of the others, which I think
need to be included in a broader package. But if we don`t have
infrastructure spending, if we don`t pump money into the economy -- the
building trades, there`s a 20 percent unemployment in the trades. Put
these people to work.

We have a $2 trillion to $3 trillion -- we have a $2 trillion to $3
trillion infrastructure deficit. We`ve got work that needs to get done.
We`ve got people that want to go to work. And they`re Ohioans.

We drive around the roads here. I think everybody agree. We could
use a little bit of money to get these roads paved around here, and that`s
what it would do.

SCHULTZ: Senator Brown, what do you say to those people who say it`s
just more spending?

BROWN: Well, I say we`ve got to invest. I`m concerned about the
budget deficit in this country, but I`m concerned about infrastructure
deficit. I`m concerned about community colleges -- what we`re doing
sending kids to school. I`m concerned about the sewer systems and the
water systems and the highways and the bridges and the ports.

And, you know, we spent in the 19 -- after the war, we in the `40s,
`50s, `60s, `70s, we built up the greatest infrastructure in the history of
the world.

Now, the government said, let`s give tax cuts to rich people instead
of modernizing our infrastructure in the investment of the future.

(BOOS)

BROWN: And all the people here, the firefighters here -- you know,
they want to send their kids to school. They want their kids to have a
good life. They want their kids to have the opportunity to join a union
and be in the middle class. But if we don`t invest in schools and health
care and education and infrastructure, they`re not going to have those
opportunities that our generation up here have.

SCHULTZ: There`s no question about that.

(APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: And finally, Mr. Reall, tell America, what do your
firefighters make?

REALL: A firefighter here in the city of Columbus, which it`s a very
busy job. I mean, you seldom go through a 24-hour shift without getting 20
runs a day. They make about $54,000 a year for a firefighter in the city
of Columbus.

SCHULTZ: And the governor wants to have you contribute more of your
health care, wants to reduce your pension, take away your voice in the
workplace of collective bargaining. I mean --

REALL: It`s -- you know, we can talk about -- when this came about as
collective bargaining reform, we were willing to sit down and talk with the
administration on how we could come up with something that would make both
sides happy and be fair to the worker and to the employer.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

REALL: What we`ve come up is something that takes away the rights for
us to protect ourselves so that we can protect the public. I don`t have
the right to bargain about staffing, I don`t have the right to bargain
about safety, I don`t have the right to bargain about training and
education for my firefighters. Those are crucial to make sure that we can
protect the public.

More importantly, it removes the ability for a third of the
firefighters and police officers in the state of Ohio to even negotiate a
contract.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

REALL: They`re taken out of the collective bargaining process
altogether. Myself included.

SCHULTZ: Keep up the fight.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

BROWN: Right after Governor Kasich -- right after Governor Kasich put
this bill out, and it was pretty clear, in spite of the protests of so many
people, so many regular citizens, not just public employees, but people of
faith, other people -- I did a roundtable at a church right near the
statehouse. And a teacher was on that roundtable, and she said, you know,
when I negotiate -- I`m not just negotiating for wages and benefits. I`m
negotiating for smaller class sizes for my students. And a police officer
said, I`m not just negotiating for my retirement, I`m negotiating for
safety vests, for bulletproof vests for my police officers.

I mean, these workers, they`re negotiating for better schools, better
education, better health care, better working conditions, not just their
benefits.

SCHULTZ: No doubt.

BROWN: And they`re entitled to that, but they work for the community.

SCHULTZ: Jack Reall, Senator Sherrod Brown, and Congressman Tim Ryan,
thanks for joining us tonight here on THE ED SHOW.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. We want to know what you think.

Coming up, a week after the president unveiled his plan to get
Americans back to work, John Boehner finally responds. And then later,
we`ll hear from Columbus mayor, Michael Coleman, and the president of the
Ohio Federation of Teachers about how Senate Bill 5 has affected their
budgets.

Also joining me here in Columbus tonight, two people who have been
fighting Senate Bill 5 from the start, State Senator Nina Turner and also
Chris Redfern of the Ohio Democratic Party. And these firefighters behind
me will --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: O-Eight.

AUDIENCE: Ohio!

SCHULTZ: Right back on the ED SHOW. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Republicans said that they would offer their jobs plan
today. Instead, we got more of the same. I`ll tell you how the president
responded, next.

And later, I`ll be joined by the mayor of Columbus, Michael Coleman,
and other Democratic leaders in Ohio who have been on the front lines of
this fight against Senate Bill 5.

This is THE ED SHOW, live from Columbus. Stay with us. We`re right
back.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Thanks for watching tonight in
Columbus, Ohio.

Republicans waited a whole week to offer an official response to
President Obama`s jobs bill. In fact, House Speaker John Boehner didn`t
even offer a new plan of his own today. It promised -- he only promised to
oppose portions of the president`s plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The president`s
proposals are a poor substitute for the pro-growth policies that are needed
to remove barriers to job creation in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: We heard more of the same from the speaker. Overall --
overhaul absolutely the tax code. No tax increases on the wealthy. Cut
regulations.

We`ve heard all of this garbage before.

(BOOS)

SCHULTZ: Will the president`s response today was hinted at during his
jobs speech last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are private
construction companies all across America just waiting to get to work.
There`s a bridge that needs repaired between Ohio and Kentucky, that`s on
one of the busiest trucking routes in North America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That bridge is called the Brent Spence Bridge and it
connects Cincinnati, Ohio, with the state of Kentucky. Cincinnati, as you
may remember, is John Boehner`s district. And Kentucky, well, that`s home
of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Today, the White House announced the president will visit the
crumbling bridge next Thursday, where he will continue to push Congress to
pass his jobs bill.

Let`s bring back Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, joining us here on THE
ED SHOW again tonight.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: Congressman, good to have you with us. How important is it,
in your opinion, for the president to stay on the stump and keep the
pressure on with this bill, even though it appears he`s not going to get
much support from the Republicans?

RYAN: No doubt about it. We`ve got to remember, we are currently
living under the George Bush tax plan, that has created -- that hasn`t
created jobs. We`ve been disinvesting in the country.

So I think it`s important for the president to continue to frame this
debate, to say we need investments back into the United States of America.
We`ve got to rebuild.

SCHULTZ: So, the president next week is going to go to this bridge.
OK, not just a few miles from here. He`s going to illustrate how
Republicans are not willing to invest. Is this going to be effective? How
do you think this is going to be received?

RYAN: I think it`s going to pin them as really extreme. I mean, you
think about Teddy Roosevelt with the Panama Canal. You think about
Eisenhower with the interstate highway. You think about Richard Nixon with
community development block grants.

Republicans, historically, have invested into the United States of
America, primarily with infrastructure. So, for the Tea Party now to be so
extreme that there isn`t any investment that we could make in the United
States is going to help I think shows how extreme they are. So, for him to
come out with a balanced plan, that has tax cuts for middle class people,
incentives were business and investment, and them to say we`re only going
to be for one side of the tax ledger, it pictures them as really extreme.

SCHULTZ: Now, in the other chamber of the Senate, Senator Hagan today
didn`t really embrace this jobs bill, and neither did Joe Manchin from West
Virginia.

You`re over in the House? What`s the mood of the caucus? Are all
Democrats going to support the president on this in the House?

Because if some fall by the wayside and don`t give the president this
card and this support when you know where the Republicans are going to be,
this is going to make it a heavy lift. In the meantime, the president said
last week, hey, this economy, these people can`t wait another 14 months.
How important is it for the Democrats to stick together on this and support
the president?

RYAN: I think it`s critical for us to be united on this. Like you
said, they`re probably not going to bring this specific bill up, but we
need to be united about a comprehensive plan for how we`re going to rebuild
the United States of America.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

RYAN: And this is a part of that that needs to get done.

SCHULTZ: Now, a development today, the super committee is coming up,
all right? The president -- the White House said today that the president
is going to take Social Security off the table when the supercommittee gets
together for deficit reduction.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts? I mean, we keep -- look, we keep hearing the
word "reform." This is the new word that I hate, reform, because reform
means cuts, got it?

All right. So, I mine, how important is it that he take it off the
table?

RYAN: I think it`s critical, because these folks here who are already
getting their pensions cut and the police and fire and everyone we`ve
already talked about, now in addition too that, oh, by the way, when you go
get your Social Security, it`s not going to be what you thought it was
going to be when you planned on retiring. So, Social Security has got to
be off the table and the Medicare privatization needs to be off the table,
too.

SCHULTZ: Needs to be gone. Amen to that.

RYAN: Because these folks will have to pay another $6,000 out-of-
pocket.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, thanks for joining us tonight,
Congressman. He is from Youngstown.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SCHULTZ: Collective bargaining saves money, but don`t take my word
for it. The mayor of Columbus, Ohio, Michael Coleman, is here, and he will
explain.

And later, you`re going to hear from some of the great men and women
who are out here with me tonight. We`ll be right back, live from Columbus,
Ohio, on THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. What an awesome crowd here
tonight. Great to have you with us, live from Columbus, Ohio.

Issue number two, it`s what`s on the ballot here in the Buckeye State
this November 8th. It`s a referendum on Senate Bill 5, which attacks the
collective bargaining rights of public workers. Governor Kasich says if
voters reject Issue two, he worries about how CEOs will view the state when
it comes to business.

Governor Kasich, you know what, dude, we still got a half an hour
left. Let`s take a shot at this chair right here. We still have a half an
hour left for Governor Kasich to come over here. I`ve got a reserve seat
for you to step right here on THE ED SHOW and explain to me why you want to
attack middle class workers, why you want to let the top two percent of the
state go Scott free. Why is it always for the corporations?

Joining me now is the mayor of Columbus, Ohio, Michael Coleman. And
also joining me tonight is Sue Taylor, the president of the Ohio Federation
of Teachers. Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Mayor, let`s start with you. Last night I was in Toledo and I was
visiting with the mayor, Mike Bell, over there. And this is what he told
me. He supports keeping Senate Bill 5 the way it is. Here`s what he had
to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BELL (D), TOLEDO, OHIO: I`m not against collective
bargaining. What I am, though, is pro-reform. And if we don`t have the
appropriate reforms in place, then our city won`t survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: He claims it`s a money issue. I mean, I`ve got to ask you,
mayor, how are you closing the budget gap here in Columbus, Ohio, in the
middle of the country, when Toledo`s having a hard time doing it?

MAYOR MICHAEL COLEMAN (D), COLUMBUS, OHIO: Well, let me just tell you
this, Ed, I`ve been the mayor of Columbus for 12 years, over a decade. And
first of all, I believe in collective bargaining rights.

And what I get tired of -- I get tired of certain people putting their
feet on the neck of public employees. Now, in Columbus collective
bargaining works. And here`s how it works. In the case in Columbus,
through the collective bargaining process -- we actually saved 144 million
dollars through the process.

Now, I`m management. I represent management. And I`m on the other
side of the table. And in the collective bargaining process, there`s hard
bargaining, but it`s fair. And it`s an opportunity for employees and
management to get down and talk about the issues that we have to deal with.

SCHULTZ: What doesn`t that mayor of Toledo understand about this
issue that you do?

COLEMAN: Well, in Columbus -- and I know Mayor Bell. He`s a good
man. I know him. And I`ve known him for a long time, but let me just say
this. He`s just wrong on this.

SCHULTZ: He says it`s about the money.

COLEMAN: If it`s about the money, in Columbus, we saved 144 million
dollars through the collective bargaining process. And on top of that, the
best and the finest firefighters in all of America here in Columbus stood
up -- stood up in a time of crises and sacrifice a raise that they were
entitled to received. And I`m appreciative of that.

SCHULTZ: Sue Taylor, 10,000 Ohio teachers could end up losing their
jobs. How devastating is that going to be to public education in this
state?

SUE TAYLOR, OHIO FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: Well, first and foremost, it
will hurt the education of students. Neither students or parents want
overcrowded classrooms. Students aren`t going to learn when teachers are
standing in unemployment lines. And that`s just wrong.

SCHULTZ: What do teachers stand to lose if Senate Bill 5 stays the
way and Issue two doesn`t go the way workers want it to go?

TAYLOR: Well, thank for asking that question. First of all, we all
need to vote no on issue two. And the reason why we need to vote no on
issue two is because students and their families will lose.

Neither students nor parents want overcrowded classes. Neither
students nor parents want disorderly classrooms. Neither students nor
parents want unsafe conditions, with asbestos and air quality problems.
Lots -- we`ll lose lots.

SCHULTZ: Why is the governor doing this, in your opinion? Why has he
been -- now, of course, he`s talking about he wants to negotiate, but I was
watching the news back in January and February when negotiations were out
the window. And he told one talk show host in this area, he says, I`m done
talking. OK.

But now he`s got different tune to it all. What doesn`t he get about
it?

TAYLOR: What he doesn`t get is that teachers and their unions are not
the problem. We are part of the solution.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Coleman?

COLEMAN: You know, I believe in collective bargaining, not selective
bargaining. And that`s what this is. And furthermore, I think that a
great deal of this is focused on just busting unions.

SCHULTZ: I believe that too.

COLEMAN: That`s what it`s all about.

SCHULTZ: Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman with us tonight and also Sue
Taylor of the Ohio Federation of Teachers. Thank you so much for joining
us and speaking up tonight on MSNBC.

Next, we`ll have two leaders of the fight against Governor Kasich`s
anti-worker agenda, State Senator Nina Turner and also Ohio Democratic
party chair Chris Redfern will join me right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to Columbus, Ohio. We`re with the
firefighters. We`re with the middle classers of America. They`re under
attack by the state legislature. It`s now issue two on the ballot. I`ve
had a number of people here in Columbus tell me -- say, you know, Ed, if we
can`t repeal this, if we can`t turn this around, what message does this
send to other radical governors and voters all across America?

Some call this the benchmark issue for saving the middle class in this
country and sticking up for workers. And I will tell you that Senator Nina
Turner has done just that. How is this going to go? Thanks for being with
us tonight.

NINA TURNER, OHIO STATE SENATOR: Thank you, Ed. And thank you for
being such a champion. In Ohio, we`re going to show the rest of this
country what we are made of.

SCHULTZ: How are the Republicans responding to this pushback?

TURNER: They`re pretenders, is what they are. And if they had any
courage or any guts, they would have made sure that our firefighters and
our other public sector workers were at the bargaining table. But you know
what they gave them? They made them stay outside the statehouse in the
cold. That is exactly what they did to them.

SCHULTZ: What do you make of Governor Kasich? Now he wants to talk.
Now he wants to negotiate, when back in January and February, he said the
talking was over.

TURNER: The time to talk was then. You know, in the last General
Assembly, our state workers gave back 250 million dollars worth of
concessions to balance the budget. You know, when I was growing up, being
a firefighter and a teacher and a police officer was noble. They were our
heroes.

And now they are telling our public sector workers to go to hell. And
we don`t appreciate that in the state of Ohio. We are not going to stand
for this in the state of Ohio. We won`t go back in the state of Ohio.

SCHULTZ: Chris Redfern, the Democratic party, is this gelling the
party in this state, this issue? Because President Obama is going to need
Ohio in 2012.

CHRIS REDFERN, OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIR: Absolutely. But this is
not about Democrats. Frankly, it`s not about Republicans. It`s about the
men and women behind us. It`s about the middle class in this state. And
if an independent or a Republican with a conscious wants to join us in
repealing Senate Bill 5, voting no on issue two, let`s have at it.

SCHULTZ: We saw a lot of outside influence in Wisconsin. How much
will you see there just in the next 60 days?

REDFERN: Our efforts are supported by the people behind us. Their
efforts are supported by people like the Koch Brothers and those folks who
don`t live in Ohio, don`t support the middle class in Ohio. One point four
million Ohioans signed a petition, said John Kasich is wrong. We put this
on the ballot. We`re going to win in November.

SCHULTZ: Senator, what about the governor -- the governor has said
that he`s concerned about what kind of image this would send to CEOs who
are thinking about bringing business to Ohio.

TURNER: That`s laughable. I wish he and some of my Republican
colleagues showed that same concern when they were cutting billions of
dollars from local government funds, billions of dollars from K-12
education, making us less safe. This is about the people, the citizens,
the middle class.

And I want to say to our fellow Ohioans that in our greatest times of
need, our firefighters are there. In our greatest times of need, our
police officers are there. In our greatest times of need, our teachers are
in the classroom teaching our students.

They need us now! This is their time of need, right now. Vote no

SCHULTZ: Thank you, senator. State Senator Nina Turner and also
Chris Redfern, who is the head of the Democratic party here in Ohio.

When we come back on THE ED SHOW on MSNBC, let`s talk to the heroes,
the firefighters. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Let me tell you, folks -- let me tell you what this fight is
all about and how intense this fight is in this country. Tonight, when I
opened this broadcast here in Columbus, Ohio, I talked about 9/11. I
talked about these heroes. You know what was Tweeted out tonight by the
Ohio State Republican communications director?

He says -- Christopher Maloney -- "it took Ed Schultz four seconds to
disparage memory of 9/11 firefighters."

And it took your governor less than a half a second to be a chicken
and not come face me, face to face to talk to the people.

This is how this -- this is the intensity that is sweeping across this
country when it comes to middle class workers. It is a political fight.
It is an ideological fight. And it`s all for the top two percent,
protecting the corporate boys and the wealthiest Americans in this country,
and asking these firefighters -- you make too much money.

Kasich thinks you make too much. He wants to take away your pension.
He wants to reduce your health care. He says your wages and your voice is
not good for Ohio. I don`t believe that and I don`t think America believes
that.

We`re right back with more on THE ED SHOW from Columbus, Ohio.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW in Columbus, Ohio. Let`s have
the firefighters respond to that Tweet by the communications director of
the Republican party.

Mark Sanders, you`re president of the Ohio Federation for
Firefighters. Your response to that Tweet. This is an attitude being
thrown out by the Republicans.

MARK SANDERS, OHIO FEDERATION OF FIREFIGHTERS: I`ll tell you, Ed,
these are our guys. We remember. We never forget. We know who`s with us,
and we know who`s against us. So I`m not even going to entertain that
comment.

Chief Reall, President Reall was there. He knows.

JACK REALL, COLUMBUS PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS ASSN.: You know,
here`s what I did Sunday, September 11th, 2011. I went around this state,
attending memorial services for veterans and for firefighters and
recognizing those firefighters on 9/11.

You know what the Republican party and our opponents did? They showed
commercials all day how bad firefighters are. That shows who disparages
the memory of my colleagues and friends.

SCHULTZ: What do you think, sir, about this whole fight?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the Republicans have been the party
of no. They are out to take our pensions, take everything away from us.
And all they want to do is hand it to wall street.

SCHULTZ: That`s what they want to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, ten years ago, we were the heroes, like
Chief Reall said. Today, they look down on us like we`re the ones draining
the middle class of all the money. You know, I don`t see us getting big
pay raises. I don`t see us getting big bonuses.

You know, but the staff up at the Capitol building, I just read
somewhere they got 33 percent raises.

SCHULTZ: What do you think, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day, we do this job. And we think about
those who were lost ten years ago. And we`re not disparaging them. We`re
-- we live in their memory every day, doing this job.

SCHULTZ: How do you feel about being trade bait at the negotiating
table? Your health care`s too good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think it`s unfortunate that he would use
firefighters and public servants as a divisive tool to hurt the people that
needs raised up and needs jobs to make their come up, so they can join us,
as opposed to bringing and killing everybody else.

SCHULTZ: What do you think, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public in Ohio is very perceptive. And I have
confidence that they see what the issue is. The gentlemen up here and the
ladies up here with me, they`re public servants. These people are all
self-servants.

And the public`s very well aware of that. And when it comes time, it
won`t be us saving the public like we do every day. I have confidence that
the public will step up and save collective bargaining and save us.

SCHULTZ: You know, if the workers are victorious on issue two and you
get the no vote, that doesn`t mean you`re going to be getting a big raise.
That doesn`t mean that, all of a sudden, I tell you what, you`re going to
get that brand-new car, right? You`re just trying to hang on to what
you`ve got.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s true. My brothers and sisters didn`t sit
back in these sweaty board rooms in the `80s to fight for our rights just
for us to lay down and let them take them all away. We`re going to fight
for them. We`re going to get this no vote out there in November. And
we`re going to fight for our brothers and sisters from this day forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to say, we don`t get Social Security.
We don`t pay into Social Security.

We pay into our pension.

SCHULTZ: And they want to cut your pension, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.

SCHULTZ: They want you to put more into it, on percentage wise. And
most of you retire at about 35,000 dollars a year, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

SCHULTZ: And without Social Security.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without it.

SCHULTZ: Can I just have a moment of comedy in all of this. They
want to cut your health care. Most of these firefighters are weight
lifters! Hell, they`re the most healthy guys on the face of the Earth! I
mean, this is about the best investment you can get when it comes to health
care!

Kasich, you`ve got a lot to learn, dude, about the working folk of
America. Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW live in Columbus, Ohio. Tonight
in our survey, I asked, should Republicans stop using firefighters as
political pawns? Ninety four percent of you said yes; six percent of you
said no.

Coming up, I just want to remind the governor, we still have just a
few minutes left in the program. We`ve got a special chair for you,
governor. It`s right here. Governor John Kasich, I think they want to
talk to you, governor. I think they want to hear what you have to say.

Come on, governor. Come on, governor. Come on down here. We`ve got
a seat for you, governor. It`s right here. I`ll ask you a few tougher
questions than what Sean Hannity would ask. But I`m going to be direct
with you. But I`ll be very fair and professional. Stay with us. We`re
right back on THE ED SHOW.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(CROSS TALK)

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: These are Americans who only want a chance and a sense of
fairness when it comes to their kitchen table issues. They ain`t asking
for nothing extra. They`re just here tonight, telling the rest of the
country the middle class is under attack. And they just want to keep what
they`ve got.

They just want to keep what they`ve earned over the years. I met a
firefighter tonight. He lost his eyesight. They want to take his pension.
You tell me -- I asked you at the beginning of the program, is this what
you want, America? Is this what your mom and dad wanted you to do for this
country? Turn against your next-door neighbor because they have health
care? Or they have a pension?

Even when you just heard a firefighter say that they don`t get Social
Security because they`re into the pension fund here, that really pays a
pittance compared to what the top two percenters are going to get.

I wish I could -- I said in a promo I need two shows. No, I need
about three shows a day. I`ll tell you what -- and my downfall as a
broadcaster is I get emotional and I get hung up, because this is the
middle of the country. There are Republicans who want to sell the brick
and mortar to a foreign country. And they want to take away what these
workers have.

I ask you tonight, whose side are you on?

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: O-H --

CROWD: Ohio.

SCHULTZ: They`re going to take it from you if you don`t win this
vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s about our safety and our people and our
unity.

SCHULTZ: What`s it say about future generations? What`s the message?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That we don`t matter. This is an unsafe bill. It
attacks safety of our citizens, our communities. It`s unfair to the middle
class. It affects everybody. You don`t have to be a public employee. You
don`t even have to be in a union. It affects you.

SCHULTZ: It affects everybody in this economy working class. You are
a teacher, I understand?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.

SCHULTZ: What`s it going to mean if you don`t repeal Senate Bill 5?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What it means is they ask us to be competitive
in a global society. We can`t even get our students out of our classroom.
We have textbooks that are outdated. We have technology that is five, ten
years behind. How can we do this if we`re being suppressed? If we`re
telling -- they`re telling us that we`re no good.

How do we tell our kids that they have to be better, we have to be
competitive, if they`re not helping us? Instead of helping us -- they
should be helping us, but they`re not.

SCHULTZ: I want to say one thing about teachers. And the great thing
about public education and a foundation in this country is that when the
doors open, everybody`s welcome.

CROWD: Yeah!

SCHULTZ: And this teacher -- this teacher, she`s not at the grocery
store picking the best berries. Because when the doors open in public
education, the gifted, the challenged, the rich, the poor -- she can`t
choose who comes in the door. And she is tasked with the job of giving an
equal opportunity to every single child.

They want to change that.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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