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The Ed Show for Monday, October 10th, 2011

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Guests: Robert Greenwald, Karen Lewis, Mike Tate, Jim Moore, Michael Eric

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight live from Chicago.

Across the nation, the 99 percent are organizing and protesting.
Republicans are bashing the protesters and complaining about the media

I come to you from the Windy City tonight with the truth.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m here to protest corporate greed and have them
do what`s right for our country.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The middle class movement is raging in Chicago
and all over America. And the Republicans want it to end now.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), MINORITY LEADER: I for one am increasingly
concerned about the growing mobs.

GLENN BECK: They will come for you and drag you into the streets and
kill you.

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: It`s really important for us not to be
giving any legitimacy in the streets.

SCHULTZ: These people are legitimate and you`ll hear from them

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t believe racism in
this country today holds anybody back in a big way.

SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson will address Herman Cain`s allegation.

ROBERT JEFFRESS, PASTOR: They are a cult, a theological. It`s a
theological cult.

SCHULTZ: Rick Perry backers are dropping the Mormon bomb on Mitt
Romney. James Moore is here.

And tonight, an ED SHOW exclusive: major breaking news on the Scott
Walker recall effort.


SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching. I`m coming to you live from Chicago this evening where thousands
of middle class Americans showed up for one of the biggest protests for the
99 percent to date.

Seventy-five hundred protesters from five different groups gathered at
the Art Institute of Chicago to push for issues like fully funding schools
and, of course, jobs. The group calls itself stand up Chicago and has been
working for months on this protest.

"Occupy Chicago," an offshoot group of the Wall Street -- "Occupy Wall
Street" was just really part of the movement. This is growing across
America. The protests have captured the attention of the world.

And Republicans on Capitol Hill, what are they doing? Well, they`re
vilifying the effort of the American people in the streets.

Here is House Majority Leader Eric Cantor at the Value Voters Summit
this weekend.


CANTOR: I for one am increasingly concerned about the growing mobs
occupying Wall Street and the other cities across the country. And believe
it or not, some in this town have actually condoned the pitting of
Americans against Americans.


SCHULTZ: Eric Cantor is and has been a mouthpiece for the Tea Party
who doesn`t have the guts to face the pain his policies have inflicted on
the middle class in this country. Cantor`s words I think insulted the
great Americans that I met with today here in the Windy City.


DARRYL SMITH, SUPPORTER: We`re not a mob. If you call us a mob, it`s
a mob for something positive. Not negative.

CHRIS MOBERO, SUPPORTER: I don`t care about taxes. I pay my taxes.
I`d pay more if I had to, you know?

I`m more about people who are hurting, you know? My folks are losing
their house. They lost their jobs. They got disabled. And after
financial crisis hit, it wiped out all their savings.

ANNIE IVERSON, SUPPORTER: We need to change and get money out of the
political system so that the people can actually have a voice back again.

KEVIN O`DONNELL, TEACHER: I believe they shouldn`t get special
privilege. The banks, Wall Street, that they deserve to get taxed. If
democracy is supposed to be by the people and for the people, why do they
get these loophole loopholes? And why do you have to be a millionaire to
be a senator?

SCHULTZ: So you would be out here today if there was an "Occupy Wall
Street" or not?

DONNA WOJCIK, TEACHER: Yes, I would have.

SCHULTZ: This has been going on for sometime.

WOJCIK: Yes. I think people are finally waking up and realizing that
if they don`t do something, the corporations are just going to take over.

SCHULTZ: What are your expectations of all of this?

BOB JEDD, SUPPORTER: Well, I hope people wake up. Vote. That`s the
important thing. Everybody gets out there and vote. Democracy works.

SMITH: What I believe is that everyone that got bailed out in their
time of need, they need to give back. They need to bail us out down here
on the street level, on the grassroots level. It`s a shame that million
dollar, billion dollar industries got bailed out. And people who are just
barely making it, trying to decide whether they`re going to eat or pay they
rent, we`re struggling.

DEE FUNDERLIC, SUPPORTER: You described it the best when you said the
Postal Service was a government agency that worked incredibly well with so
many employees and managed to make payroll. And if we didn`t have to
prefund our retirement, we would be even making a profit.

DENISE JULIAN, LIBRARIAN: I`m a librarian and school teacher, proud
to be one. And they`re cutting libraries all across the country,
especially here in Illinois.

NICK STALEY, SUPPORTER: We need to put America back to work and get
our country back up and going, so everybody in this country can have a job
and just live the American Dream.

SUE MYERS, SUPPORTER: If this is a mob, I guess if you want to call
it a mob, of concerned middle class people who are concerned about the way
this country is going. Young people, old people, middle aged people like
me. Yes, if we`re a mob, I`m glad to be part of it. I think it`s
fantastic. I love it.


SCHULTZ: The middle class mob I saw was filled with hardworking
Americans who just want a level playing field with the top 1 percent.
Nancy Pelosi hammered Cantor for his stupid remark.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: I didn`t hear him say
anything when the Tea Party was out demonstrating, actually spitting on
members of Congress right here in the Capitol, and he and his colleagues
were putting signs in the windows encouraging them. But let`s not get down
to that.


SCHULTZ: Pelosi is spot on. And she is the first Democrat to call
out the Republicans for smearing and mischaracterizing this movement, these

But hold it there, folks. It gets worse. Congressman Peter King of
New York made this outrageous comment about demanding how the media quit
covering the 99 percent movement.


KING: It`s really important for us not to be giving any legitimacy to
these people in the streets. I`m old enough to remember what happened in
the 1960s when the left wing takes to the street and somehow the media
glorified them and it ends up shaping policy. We can`t allow that to


SCHULTZ: Can`t allow that to happen. Isn`t it amazing how all of the
right wingers in Congress are against freedom of speech all of a sudden?
They were for it when the Tea Partiers were out there. Now they can`t let
them go out there and give them any legitimacy or any coverage for that
matter because they might end up shaping policy.

I am absolutely amazed that Peter King is getting a pass by the media
for saying what he said on Friday on Laura Ingraham`s radio show. Let`s
just get into this a bit more.

He says, "I remember what happened in the 60s when the left wing took
to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and end up shaping
policy. We can`t allow that to happen."

Well, I`m old enough to remember the `60s as well, Congressman. And
those protests were about stopping a war in Vietnam that eventually took
56,000 American lives. That was a period in this country when we were also
fighting for civil rights, you know, so black folks could go fight, to go
vote. I mean, is that what you`re for?

And so, I ask Mr. King tonight, do you agree with Trent Lott who said
back on December 5th, 2002 that, you know what, if we had voted for Strom
Thurmond, we wouldn`t have these other problems. I mean, those two
comments, what Peter King said on Laura Ingraham`s radio show and what
Trent Lott said back in December of 2002, there`s no difference. It`s a
mind-set of the Republican Party. If they don`t hear what they want to
hear, they want everyone else to shut up.

But it`s also that dirty little secret of the Republican Party -- they
got a real issue with race. And they just don`t want folks out there in
the street telling it like it is, what they want.

The 99 percent -- they`re being vilified and portrayed by Republicans
as some fringe outrageous group that doesn`t represent the masses in
America. That simply is not the case.

Peter King, that`s about the lowest thing you have ever said. You
want to control the coverage? You don`t have a line to this reporter. You
don`t have a line to this anchor. I will continue to cover this.

I am in the middle of the country tonight. I am here in Chicago
because I wanted to see if the people in Chicago were going to be saying
the same things that I heard down at Wall Street in New York just a few
days ago. You ought to take that road trip, Mr. King. It`s remarkable
what the American people are saying about how screwed up our government is
and how it all goes to the top 1 percent.

What they`re saying in Chicago is exactly what they`re saying in New
York. And I`d venture to say it`s the same thing all over the country.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: are Republicans afraid of the 99 percent movement? Text A for
yes, text B for no to 622639. You can always go to our blog on We`ll bring you results later on in the show.

Joining me now is Robert Greenwald, founder and president of Brave New
Films. He`s also the producer of the new documentary "Rethink

Mr. Greenwald, good to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your


SCHULTZ: Why do you think Republicans want the media to quit covering
this movement?

GREENWALD: Well, I think that they`re terrified, Ed, because what
we`re seeing is a real social movement. And social movements sweep
politicians out of their way.

Think about it, the peace movement, the civil rights movement, the
women`s movement, the labor movement -- none of them stood still for hack
politicians. They talked about what they needed to talk about. They
talked about moral issues and went after it strongly and firmly, and
politicians damn well better run because when the people`s anger is
unleashed on the right targets, which is the 1 percent, then we see social

SCHULTZ: Are you thinking the Republicans are more concerned about
the protesters or the message that continually is getting the coverage?

GREENWALD: Well, I think it`s the message, because it`s brilliant
messaging, right? Ninety-nine percent.

What are these politicians going to do? They`re going to say we want
1 percent to elect us? We want the Koch brothers and we want Rupert
Murdoch, that`s our constituency? That`s who we are representing?

In fact, tomorrow in New York there`s going to be a march on Murdoch`s
home and the Koch brothers` home and others` homes so that we can begin to
identify who are these 1 percent, who are the war profiteers and the
people, the millionaires and the billionaires who are trying to control the
rest of our country.

And what we`re seeing, Ed, really is pure, beautiful democracy at

SCHULTZ: Herman Cain slammed the protesters on Sunday. Here`s what
he had to say. Let`s watch it.


CAIN: It`s not American because to protest Wall Street and the
bankers is basically saying that you`re anti-capitalism. The free market
system and capitalism are two things that have allowed this nation and this
economy to become the biggest in the world. Even though we have our
challenges, I believe that the protests are more anti-capitalism and anti-
free market than anything else.


SCHULTZ: Robert, what`s your response to that sound bite?

GREENWALD: Well, I think the more slams there are the better there
is, because the more the social movement grows. Sticks and stones can hurt
my bones but not, you know -- I mean all those childish slanderings are an
indication that this is really catching on. It`s really getting people`s
attention. There`s real concern. And there`s real fear which means that
the 99 percenters are going the right thing and doing it in the right way.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the 99 percent could be more of a political
force than what we saw the Tea Party -- I mean, the Tea Party obviously had
an influence on the midterms last November 2010. And we`re a year away.

And are these voters, the people that are going to engage in the
process, and do you think that this could be a greater political force than
the Tea Party?

GREENWALD: Well, I think what`s important again is remember, this is
a social movement. It`s not about narrow partisan divisions. It`s really
about changing the way people of all political persuasions think about
issues, work on issues, and talk about issues.

And from that point of view, I think they`ve absolutely hit the sweet
spot of our country, talking about the fact why so many people lost their
homes, have no jobs, are spending trillion dollars on a war when 1 percent
of this country, 1 percent, Ed, has billions and millions of dollars and
their greed will never stop. The bankers` greed doesn`t stop. Wall Street
greed doesn`t stop.

We see, today, Wall Street is expecting bigger bonuses than ever this
year while tens of thousands of people are losing their homes. That`s a
profound issue and that`s a social movement which exceeds, if you will, any
kind of narrow political way of looking at it. And that`s why some of
these politicians are absolutely terrified. And they should be.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Robert Greenwald, always a pleasure. Good to have you
with us tonight on THE ED SHOW. Thanks for your views.

Let`s turn now to Karen Lewis now. She is the president of the
Chicago Teachers Union, one of the groups, just one of the groups that
participated in today`s rally.

Karen, let me ask you -- why did your group take part in this rally

KAREN LEWIS, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: Well, we`ve under attack for
quite some time but most vigorously here in the last six months. We have a
new CEO, because, of course, we don`t have superintendents in our school
system. We have CEOs, which ought to tell you what they`re thinking about.

And they came to us by saying we`re not going to fund your raise. We
had a contractual raise for 4 percent. That was snatched.

And then they said, by the way, we want to lengthen your school day 90
minutes and two weeks. So, we want you to work 30 percent more but we
don`t want to pay you for it.

And when the union said, no, the leadership said no because that`s
what our members told us, then they started a direct deal program and going
to our members and saying why don`t you take this deal? Why don`t you take
this deal?

So, we filed an unfair labor practice. We did a bunch of things. But
our members are absolutely irate about what`s been going on lately.

SCHULTZ: And do you think what is happening here in Chicago is just a
microcosm of what`s going on around the country with public education?

LEWIS: Oh, absolutely. I mean, we`re the home of Arne Duncan, we`re
the home of mayoral control. Study just came out from University of
Chicago`s consortium on school research. And one of the things they came
out with was that we`ve had 20 years of school reform that has been a
dismal failure and more P.R. spin than anything else.

And along the way, teachers have been vilified. But it`s not just in
Chicago. It`s a nationwide attack.

SCHULTZ: Where is your Mayor Rahm Emanuel? Where is the former chief
of staff of the Obama administration? Where is Rahm Emanuel on this? Is
he anti-teacher?

LEWIS: Absolutely. He`s been clearly anti-teacher from the
beginning. He came in, he went to Springfield to try to take our
collective bargaining rights away.

He made it so that it would be 75 percent. It would take our union to
strike. He was just like adamant about us not being able to strike.

And, then, yesterday, he goes on "Meet the Press" and say we`re going
to have performance pay. It`s kind of hard to have performance pay when
you haven`t bothered to negotiate with the people doing the work. So, I
mean, this mayor --

SCHULTZ: Well, how can you -- I`m curious. How can you have
performance pay in low income neighborhoods that don`t get the resources
that other school districts get?

I mean, I`m just amazed at that one. I`ve got to ask you, finally do
you have the public on your side? And I guess we lost that live shot.

But I want to thank Karen Lewis for joining us tonight. Thanks so

As you can see, this just isn`t about a certain group of people. And
these teachers here in Chicago have been fighting with Rahm Emanuel and
trying to keep what they`ve got for a long time. And this protest has been
in the works for some time. It just coincides with the occupy Wall Street

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on twitter @EdShow. I want to know what you

Major breaking news out of the great state of Wisconsin tonight. You
won`t want to miss it. We`ll have it exclusively.

Rick Perry is using THE ED SHOW to attack Mitt Romney and Herman Cain
thinks racism in America is over?

This is THE ED SHOW, live from Chicago. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Since the "Occupy Wall Street" protest began 24 days ago, similar
demonstrations have broken out around the United States. This map shows
140 different locations with protests ongoing or planned in the coming
week. There have been protests in Boston, Atlanta, Portland, Oregon where
I loved it because the cops were protesting with the protesters.

And then right here in Chicago, of course, there`s going to be a
series of protests.

In the coming days there are protests planned in Austin, Texas,
Nashville, Tennessee, and Richmond, Virginia, just to name a few.

The "Occupy Cincinnati, Ohio" movement began Saturday. And is now in
its third day.

In Des Moines, Iowa, more than 30 protesters were arrested in the
"Occupy Iowa" movement, most of them for trespassing.

In Washington, D.C., protesters marched over the weekend, but the
National Air and Space Museum was closed when a group called Stop the
Machine wanted to demonstrate against the military drone exhibit.

The protest movement has drawn a wide array of groups, but the central
message is still coming to together. The 99 percent are getting a raw deal
and a system geared for the top 1 percent income earners in this country.

"FOX and Friends" makes a return trip to "Psycho Talk" tonight.

And when we come back, an ED SHOW exclusive on the effort to recall
the governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

We have breaking news in the effort to recall Governor Scott Walker of
Wisconsin. Organizers are now prepared to take the next crucial step. And
it`s fitting this is happening at a time when the country is watching the
evolution of a nationwide protest movement.

It was just eight months ago when 100,000 people protested the anti-
union budget of Governor Scott Walker in Wisconsin. Those protests led to
the recall of Republican state senators.

And now, the move to recall the governor of Wisconsin is official.

Let`s bring in the chairman of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, Mike

Mike, good to have you with us tonight.

What can you tell us? What is the next critical step? And where are
we tonight? What is the breaking news? What are you doing?

on, Ed, and thanks for everything you`ve done to help keep Wisconsin at the
forefront of everything that`s happened in this country. The Democratic
Party has been working with grassroots activists from around the state.
Groups like United Wisconsin and the many other groups that have sprung up
to figure out what is the next step we can take to stop Scott Walker`s
radical agenda.

And we have come through a series of meetings with all these
grassroots activists to the conclusion that we need to recall him from
office. And we are going to officially file to recall him from office on
November 15th. And that will begin the process to collect the signatures
we need to recall him from office and people can go to the to learn more about it.

But this is a big deal. It`s a very serious thing to take on. But we
think it`s important for the state of Wisconsin.

SCHULTZ: So, November 15th is the big day. And then you`ve got 60
days to get over a half a million signatures, is that correct?

TATE: That is correct. We need 540,206 valid signatures, Ed. And,
obviously, we`re going to shoot to collect over 600,000 signatures. But we
are putting together the resources, the team, the staff, the volunteers
that we need to collect signatures from every single corner of Wisconsin.

And this is going to be a grassroots effort. And we are prepared and
ready to take this effort on.

SCHULTZ: Can you get the -- can you get half a million signatures?

TATE: I think we can. You know, we saw people of Ohio get about a
million signatures for a initiative there last month. We`ve done the math.
We`ve done the numbers. We`re well prepared.

And we`re just asking people, if they`re in Wisconsin, they help us
out with signatures. If they`re not in Wisconsin, they contribute $3 or $4
or $5 to our effort. We believe we can do this. And we believe it`s too
important to wait.

And Wisconsin simply can`t wait. We cannot afford any more days of
Scott Walker as our governor.

SCHULTZ: So Mike Tate, tell us. When will the recall election take
place if you get the 540,206 signatures within the 60 day window, you
submit them, they`re legitimate. I would imagine the secretary of state
would play a role in making sure that they are legitimate.

When would the re-election likely be held?

TATE: Well, it`s actually not the secretary of state. We have a
supposedly non-partisan board that will review the signatures, the
Government Accountability Board --


TATE: -- that will review the signatures.

And we`re thinking -- no one can predict with certainty. But we`re
thinking likely around in May or sometime in the early spring there will be
an effort. It likely won`t be on the state`s Republican primary which is
April 3rd. Likely sometime after that.

But you know, we are in uncharted territory. This has never happened
in Wisconsin. It`s only happened successfully once in American history.

So, we are going to make history here in Wisconsin. We will take it
as it comes, and we`re going to get the signatures and we`re going to
recall our governor.

SCHULTZ: Do you think he`ll be recalled? I mean, where is Walker
with the people of Wisconsin this night?

TATE: We released a polling number today of some research we did in
the last month that shows that Scott Walker is universally unpopular. And
if voters had an operation to recall him from office today, they would
recall him -- well over 50 percent of the voters said they would recall him
from office.

You know, realize that Scott Walker lied to the people of Wisconsin
during this campaign for governor. He never talked about the divisive
things he has pushed through. He never talked about how he was going to
govern for the few. He never talked about declaring war on the middle
class and removing collective bargaining rights for our state`s workers.

The people of Wisconsin feel duped by Scott Walker who has governed
this runaway freight train and we need to stop him. And the best way to do
is to start gathering signatures November 15th and have a recall election
early next year.

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s going to take thousands signatures per day. Do
you have enough boots on the ground to get this done?

TATE: I can tell you there are people in every corner of this state
that are excited and ready and mobilized. And like I said, groups like
United Wisconsin and many others have been working these grassroots. We`ve
had over 200,000 people sign up on the United Wisconsin Web site alone to
say that they will sign on and recall the Governor Walker.

You know, if you go to, you can find out more about
that. I am very confident we can get these signatures. Now, waging this
campaign, Ed, we think Scott Walker can put together $70 million in Koch
brother money, in corporate-fueled money.

So, this is going to be tough. This is not a cake walk.

As universally unpopular as Scott Walker is, we need to be ready for a
big fight here. But it`s too important to wait. And I think that we will
prevail at the end of the day.

SCHULTZ: OK. So the recall effort on Governor Scott Walker in
Wisconsin is officially underway. That is our news tonight.

Thanks, Mike. Appreciate your time. Mike Tate, the chairman of the
Democratic Party in Wisconsin.

The kids on "FOX and Friends" are trying to smear the middle class
movement that is sweeping across the country by letting a few select
examples speak for the entire movement. Their broad-brushing attacks are
sending them right in the zone.

The unemployment rate for the African-American community is at 16
percent across America. Yet, Herman Cain says there is a level playing
field in this country? Michael Eric Dyson will join me on that one.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, well, the kids on "Fox and
Friends" are doing everything they can to undermine the Occupy Wall Street
Movement. Today they used an article from Rupert Murdoch`s "New York Post"
to smear the protesters.


GRETCHEN CARLSON, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: We wanted to give you a flavor of
some of the people who are down at this particular location, at least here
on Wall Street. This guy right here, here is apparently a fugitive. He`s
wanted for burglary. Warrants are out for his arrest, but he says that he
found out that hiding out at this protest would be a great place to not be

So this is kind of the life I guess for people who are wanted on
burglary charges. Just hide out at Occupy Wall Street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently there`s plenty of drugs down there. A
"New York Post" reporter was offered pot for 15 bucks, and heroin for ten


SCHULTZ: "Fox and Friends" no doubt using a couple of examples to
intentionally broad brush the entire movement across the country. I went
down to Wall Street last week and spent several hours talking to the
protesters. They want the government to work for everyone in America, not
just the top one percent.

They want jobs for the middle class and a better future for their
kids. But the folks on Fox are doing everything they can to portray them
in the worst possible light. Of course, a year ago, when the Tea Party was
getting criticized for holding up racist signs, "Fox and Friends" went out
of their way to defend the movement.


CARLSON: Speaking of the Tea Party, the movement has been under
attack since it started. Liberal members of the media and politicians have
come out calling it racist. A grad student at UCLA just completed a study
on the Tea Party and the signs that are carried at the rallies. And she
came up with a much different conclusion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only about six percent of the signs were
controversial in nature. You can`t generalize everybody that`s there by a
couple signs.

CARLSON: I find it actually amazing that nobody else has done what
you chose to do. So hat`s off to you.


SCHULTZ: So you can`t generalize the Fox-approved Tea Party with just
a few examples? But Gretchen Carlson has no problem doing that with the 99
percenters. "Fox and Friends," for them to use a couple of Murdoch
approved examples to smear an entire movement is slimy Psycho Talk.

A radical Christian pastor says he`s not Rick Perry`s Reverend Wright.
More on cult-gate next.

The president`s jobs bill faces a key vote tomorrow. We know what the
Republicans are going to do. But what about the Democrats? I`ll call on
them to do the right thing. You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay
with us.



ROBERT JEFFRESS, PASTOR: Do we prefer somebody who is truly a
believer in Jesus Christ or somebody who is a good, moral person, but is
part of a cult? It`s not politically correct to say, but it`s true.
Mormonism is a cult.


SCHULTZ: That was Dallas mega-church Pastor Robert Jeffress after
endorsing Rick Perry at the Value Voters Summit over the weekend. The
Perry campaign responded with a statement saying "the governor does not
believe Mormonism is a cult."

But the statement certainly didn`t stop Jeffress from a whirlwind
media tour, appearing with CNN`s John King on Friday. Then later that
night with Anderson Cooper. Then here on MSNBC Saturday afternoon. Then
it was back to CNN. Then over to "Fox and Friends" on Sunday. And back on
Fox News this morning.

The talking points were the same ones he shared with Chris Matthews on
"HARDBALL" today.


JEFFRESS: I was talking not about a sociological cult like David
Koresh or Jim Jones. I`m talking about a theological cult.

So by that definition, it is a theological cult. I did not mean that
kind of cult. I was talking about a theological cult.


SCHULTZ: Something tells me the conservative voters in the south
aren`t going to care about the differences between cults. They just care
about a pastor endorsing Rick Perry who tells them Mitt Romney is a cult
member. I think that`s the message they want out there.

Joining me tonight is "Huffington Post" contributor Jim Moore. He`s
also the author of the upcoming book "Adios Mofo, Why Rick Perry Will Make
America Miss George W. Bush." He writes at as well.

Jim, good to have you with us tonight. If the Perry campaign is out
there objecting to Jeffress saying Mormonism is a cult, why didn`t they
discourage all of his media appearances, where he just continued to make
that claim time and time again?

JIM MOORE, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": Here`s the important thing to note
about that, Ed. That is simply that what he isn`t saying is much more
critical than what he is saying. He has not said he believes Mormonism is
a part of Christiandom.

Rick Perry refuses to say. He did defend Mitt Romney and say it`s not
a cult. But he has not embraced it as part of traditional Christian
theology. Frankly, I think it`s clearly obvious, at least to me and a
number of other observers, that Reverend Jeffress is acting as a surrogate
on Rick Perry`s behalf.

He`s running around raising a discussion that they want to make sure
every Evangelical Christian in the south hears, that Mitt Romney is s a
Mormon and Evangelicals will not vote for a Mormon.

This isn`t happening by accident. Nothing happens by accident at this
point in a campaign.

SCHULTZ: If Mitt Romney does get the nomination, do guys like
Jeffress hold their nose and vote for him? Or do they stay home? And how
will the Christian conservatives respond if it is Mitt Romney getting the

MOORE: I don`t think they vote for him. I think they stay home.
They stay away in droves. You know, it`s the whole Casey Stengal, if
people don`t want to come out to the ballpark, there`s nothing you can do
to stop them. They will not turn out enthusiastically.

And for a Republican to win the White House, they have to have a
strong southern turnout all across Dixie. And they have to do very well in
that part of the United States.

This is going to have an effect. I think there was a Pew poll in 2007
that said 57 percent of Evangelicals, Ed, do not believe Mormonism is a
part of Christiandom. These are people who are active in the party. They
are people who will have a very, very difficult time voting for Mitt
Romney, even though he`s probably their best candidate to win the election.

SCHULTZ: Here`s Jeffress on Fox News today. Check it out.


JEFFRESS: You know, there are people who would like to try to make me
the Jeremiah Wright of the right or Rick Perry`s Jeremiah Wright. Rick
Perry has never listened to a sermon. He`s certainly never been a member
of my church. We are just acquaintances.


SCHULTZ: So will Jeffress be a liability for Perry? Or is he
actually an asset?

MOORE: I think he`s acting as a political asset. Look, when he did
that introduction, Ed, for him at that event with the Value Voters, Perry
knew what he was going to say. And Perry knows how Reverend Jeffress feels
about these things. The pastor wasn`t up there speaking extemporaneously.

They knew when he left the podium that he was going to be approached
by reporters and he was going to be asked these kinds of questions. This
isn`t an accident. Rick Perry doesn`t have to distance himself. Rick
Perry doesn`t have to say anything.

He just lets Pastor Jeffress keep saying the same thing over and over
again. And it helps Rick Perry.

SCHULTZ: Candidate Jon Huntsman, who`s not doing very well, he is
also a Mormon. He called Jeffress a moron today. But other candidates
like Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain, they pretty much are dodging the
question. What do you make of that?

MOORE: I think that the problem is if Michele Bachmann or Herman Cain
or Rick Perry or any one of those came out and said Mitt Romney`s religion
is not a cult; Mitt Romney is part of Christiandom, then they would lose
support in the south among Evangelical voters and the Tea Party voters.
And it would hurt them immensely.

So they`re parsing their language very carefully. They`re not saying
that. But they`re being careful to defend him and say it`s not a cult.
But they aren`t saying it`s a part of Christianity. That`s the careful
step they`re taking.

SCHULTZ: Perry released this campaign ad today. Let`s look at it.


Massachusetts and it`s working in Massachusetts, wouldn`t you apply it to
the rest of the country?


SCHULTZ: Romney has flip-flopped on so many issues.

ROMNEY: I changed my mind. I`m running for a different office.

We`ll end up with a nation that`s taken a mandate approach.

There`s a lot of reasons not to elect me.



SCHULTZ: Well, yes, that is my voice that they used in there. I
don`t think I get any rights fee for it though. How -- how effective is
the strategy to label Mitt Romney as not a true conservative? I mean, is
he -- it seems like he`s doing the marathon. He`s not doing the sprint.
And he is ahead in New Hampshire.

So he`s going to get an early primary victory. Romney as not a true
conservative -- is that strategy by the Perry camp going to work?

MOORE: It`s an essential strategy for them, Ed. They have to go
after him on things like gay marriage, abortion, global warming and his
Romney-care in his home state. Those are the places where he is
vulnerable. And as Rick Perry has lost voters and has lost support, he`s
got to go back to those issues so that he can beat them up on those.

And the immigration thing becomes less relevant.

SCHULTZ: Jim, you`re coming to us tonight from New Hampshire, where
there is going to be a big debate tomorrow night. Quickly, do you think
this is a crucial time for Rick Perry? Does he have to show well tomorrow

MOORE: Absolutely. He`s got to do really well. He`s got to look
poised. He`s got to spend the evening talking about how well he`s done
protecting the border. And he`s going to talk a lot about jobs. Those are
the only two answers he`s going to give all night, regardless of the
question. And if he doesn`t do well tomorrow night, he comes out of here
very, very wounded for the future.

SCHULTZ: All right. Jim Moore, great to have you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.

Coming up, Herman Cain doesn`t believe that racism holds anybody back.
Michael Eric Dyson is going to be weighing in on that. You`re watching THE
ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Well, the folks in Ohio, they got a lot of deal with.
Crumbling infrastructure, a union busting governor, and a tanned and teary
eyed speaker of the House. And now to top it all off, the state could end
up with Joe the Plumber in Congress.

That`s right. Of course you know Joe. He rocketed to fame when he
asked Candidate Obama a question about taxes and became John McCain`s
example of a real American, even though his name`s not Joe and he wasn`t
actually a plumber.

But now he has filed to run for office in one of Ohio`s newly redrawn
districts. So get ready to hear more of great lines like these.


should be anywhere allowed war. I think media should be abolished from

I obviously don`t want my son seeing men kissing each other. It just
-- it throws me off. So it`s just not a big deal. Let me rephrase that.
It`s just not something I want around my family.

Social Security, I`ve never believed in. Don`t like it. Hate that
it`s forced on me.


SCHULTZ: Joe says his pick for president in 2012 is Herman Cain
because the pizza man doesn`t want Muslims in his cabinet. We`ll have more
on Herman Cain coming up. He`s saying racism doesn`t really exist anymore.
Michael Eric Dyson will weigh in next. You won`t want to miss it. Stay
with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. In my playbook tonight, after
claiming African-American voters have been brainwashed by Democrats,
Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain is now making another big new
assertion on race.


HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t believe racism in
this country today holds anybody back in a big way.


SCHULTZ: Well, pretty bold statement considering the unemployment
rate in the African-American community in this country is at 16 percent,
almost twice the national average. Cain blames a gap in education and
geographic conditions for the discrepancy, and says those less fortunate
are still entitled to an opportunity to achieve the American dream.


CAIN: Everybody`s definition of the American dream is different. You
are owed the opportunity for a level playing field.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do blacks have a level playing field right
now with whites?

CAIN: Many of them do. Many of them do have a level playing field.
I absolutely believe that.


SCHULTZ: Cain cited his own experiences in corporate America to back
up his claims. As for those who find themselves at an economic
disadvantage, well, Herman Cain believes they only have themselves to


CAIN: People sometimes hold themselves back because they want to use
racism as an excuse for them not being able to achieve what they want to


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is MSNBC political analyst, professor at
Georgetown University and author of the book "Can You Hear Me Now," Michael
Eric Dyson. Michael, great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your


SCHULTZ: I have never heard a candidate talk about race like this.
What do you make of these comments?

DYSON: Well, he`s clearly pandering to his base. He doesn`t want to
offend Republicans. I`d rather have a Republican like Colin Powell, who
took his fellow white Republicans to task about their being recipients of
affirmative action in a very bold and strategic way. I`d rather
Republicans acknowledge that there are structural impediments and
inequalities that persist.

We talk about health care disparity. We talk about economic
inequality. We speak about the fact that the wages of black people fell
post-recession by -- and the median income by 9.2 percent. The
unemployment rate is 16.7 percent. One out of two black men in New York
cannot get a job right now.

And the disproportionate concentration of African-American people in
the prison system. So we can go on and on and talk about the persistence
of both structural inequities, as well as the persistence of certain forms
of cultural bigotry that prevent the flourishing of African-American
people, and that keep them down.

So there`s no question that he`s illusory. He`s in a land of

SCHULTZ: Professor, is Herman Cain doing his race a disservice by
saying that there`s a level played field, after what you just pointed out,
how many inequities there -- and how many problems there are in America
right now for minorities?

DYSON: Well, not only is he doing his race a disservice. He`s doing
the truth a disservice, Ed. The tragedy is that Herman Cain is using the
truth as a convenient piece of fodder for the great machinery of self-
promotion. I think that`s pretty tragic.

Look, I have no gripe with him trying to make an argument for his
place within the Republican fold. But to argue that there`s a playing
field that`s level for African-American people, when it`s so manifestly
clear that there is inequity, that there is inequality, that there is
social injustice, that there is the persistence of obstacles and barriers
that prevent people from even getting skills that would allow them to
compete in this economy.

So when you put that stuff on the table, it`s really tremendously
difficult to acknowledge that he`s telling the truth. On the other hand,
he`d do well to read Amanti Perry`s (ph) book -- she`s a professor at
Princeton University -- "More Terrible and More Beautiful," where she talks
about post-intentional racism. It`s not something people sit around and
intend to do.

But nonetheless, there are severe and deleterious consequences to how
we organize society. So whether it`s intentional or not, the persistence
of inequity certainly has a negative effect on African-American people.
How can Herman Cain look at any of the indices of contemporary African-
American life and deny that? It`s way beyond me.

SCHULTZ: Is he missing an opportunity, you know, when it comes to
addressing race in a meaningful way?

DYSON: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: You think about white Republicans out there who don`t like
black folks. It`s almost as if this guy is trying to warm up to them and
tell them what they want to hear. Your thoughts?

DYSON: At the expense of his own dignity. If the price of admission
is the denial of your body or your brain or your blood, then what you`re
doing is sacrificing the history and tradition that produced who you are
for the sake of getting into a field that really doesn`t take you

Yes, he`s missing a great opportunity to inform his fellow Republicans
about some of these inequities and to challenge them, to address them, and
therefore pull more African-American and Latino and other poor and working
class people into the fold.

If it looked like the Republicans were willing to acknowledge some of
the persistent obstacles that prevail, then, it seems to me, more people of
color might be willing to give them a look. Short of that, what he does is
reinforce certain stereotypes and certain kind of narrow thinking.

SCHULTZ: MSNBC political analyst, professor Michael Eric Dyson,
always a pleasure. Great to have you on the program tonight. Thanks so

Coming up, some Democrats are turning their backs on job creation in
this country. I`ll try to talk them off the cliff here and make sense out
of it next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Finally tonight, it`s put up or shut up time for senators
who care about jobs in this country. For weeks, President Obama has been
trying to drum up support for the American Jobs Act. It`s a plan that
includes spending on education, transportation, infrastructure, and of
course veterans. We support the veterans, don`t we?

A payroll tax cut for workers in small businesses. Republicans have
supported that in the past. A tax increased on the wealthiest Americans.
Isn`t it about time?

Tomorrow, it is scheduled for a vote in the Senate. And it may very
well fail. Now, we all know the Republicans don`t want the economy to get
any better under this president. They want him out. That`s their stated
goal. They don`t care about the middle classers. They don`t care about
the unemployed.

The Republicans are unified in their opposition to this plan. That
leaves us with the Democrats.

And as always, there are a few Democrats who are more concerned about
keeping their own job rather than creating new jobs for the American
people. Like Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska. He`s always been a pretty
good turncoat to the Democrats. He said he`ll vote against efforts to move
the bill forward.

Or Jon Tester of Montana. This one really strikes me. He told his
local newspaper, quote, "there are things I like in this proposal, but they
are outweighed by the things I just can`t accept right now."

Senator, it`s not about you. It`s about folks in your state. And I
find it hard to believe that the people of Montana don`t want a job. You
know that -- I just can`t accept that. I just -- you know what, I just
can`t accept right now is guys like Jon Tester and Ben Nelson and Joe
Manchin and all the other Democrats who are calculating what is best for
them instead of standing up for what is right, jobs in America. How much
more evidence do these possible turncoat senators against the president for
a jobs bill -- how much more evidence do they need that the middle class in
this country is hurting and our economy needs a big shot in the arm? If
they can`t vote for this American Jobs Bill, why don`t you guys just go
have lunch with the Republicans where you belong. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m
Ed Schultz. "THE LAST WORD" with Lawrence O`Donnell starts right now.
We`ll see you back here tomorrow night.


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