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The Ed Show for Monday, November 7th, 2011

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Guests: Ted Strickland, Richard Trump, Harold Schaitberger, Betty Sutton,
Tim Ryan, Joe Watkins, Krystal Ball, Sue Taylor, Jim Gilbert, Jack Reall,
Sean Grayson, Maureen Reedy, David Quolke, John Nichols

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW live from Columbus, Ohio.


SCHULTZ: Where workers` rights are the big issue in America and a big
issue here tonight.

It`s the eve of the historic election to determine the fate of middle
class Americans and in the state of Ohio. And Republicans are trying to
cheat their way to the upset.

Other news tonight, the Herman Cain story will not quit. We now have
a name and a face accusing Herman Cain of sexual misconduct. Her
accusations are graphic and explosive. The Cain camp is denying them.
We`ll bring you the story later on in the show.

But the real story is here in Ohio. And this is the only place you`re
going to see it.


SCHULTZ: This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


SCHULTZ: Good evening, folks.

It`s one of the most important stories of the year: the attack on
workers` rights by Republican-controlled statehouses across this country.


SCHULTZ: From Wisconsin, to Florida, to right here in Ohio, the
middle class is being squeezed by lawmakers and governors who want to do
away with public unions for political gain. It is about power.

John Kasich made his intentions clear when he ran for governor.


SCHULTZ: Speaking to a group of Ohio Republicans back in March of
2009, Kasich said, "We need to break the back of organized labor in the


SCHULTZ: He also made clear what he thinks of public safety workers,
like police officers.


GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: Have you ever been stopped by a policeman
who was an idiot?

I have this idiot pull me over on 315. Goes back to the car, comes
back, gives me a ticket and says, you must report to court, if you don`t
report to court, we`re putting a warrant out for your arrest.

He`s an idiot.


SCHULTZ: Kasich campaigned on economic development, but when he took
office early this year, Ohio Republicans -- basically what they did was
stage an attack on organized labor.

Senate Bill 5 was signed into law by Governor Kasich on March 31st.
The law limits collective bargaining for public employees in the state of
Ohio. Kasich said it was needed to fill an $8 billion budget gap.

But the savings for Senate Bill 5 were never specified.

The governor didn`t skip any opportunities to brag about what he did.


KASICH: Probably nobody in this room thought it could be done, did
you? You heard this before -- campaign rhetoric, baloney. The members of
the legislature, along with the team in my administration, have done
something that the people in Washington ought to understand. We look
problems square in the eye and we didn`t blink.


SCHULTZ: Kasich`s Senate Bill 5 changes the way more than 360,000
public employees negotiate their contracts in this state. It bans
collective bargaining for benefits. It eliminates automatic pay increases.
It makes it illegal to strike.

And most of all, it does away with arbitration.

How in the hell can you have collective bargaining if you don`t have
an arbitrator when there`s an issue at the table?


SCHULTZ: These people are fired up about that.

The bill forces public safety workers, basically, to beg for important
resources. Kasich`s politicians have the ultimate say on approving
requests for safety equipment and staffing levels which doesn`t sit well
with state rescue workers.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I leave home for my shift, I want my kids to
know that I have every bit of safety equipment I need to come home the next

MARIETTA FIREFIGHTER ERIC MOORE: The firefighters here, we didn`t
cause the economic downturn in Ohio. I know that the teachers didn`t. I
know the police officers didn`t. I know all the other hardworking public
employees did not cause the economic problems here in the state of Ohio.


SCHULTZ: So, what did they do here in Ohio? Well, the grassroots
coalition of Senate Bill 5 opponents launched the We Are Ohio campaign on
April 9th.


SCHULTZ: More than 10,000 people attended a rally here in Columbus.
In less than three months, the group delivered 1,298,301 signatures to the
Ohio secretary of state.


SCHULTZ: One million more signatures that was needed to put it on the
ballot. The ballot signatures put Senate Bill 5 on the ballot this
November and it written up as Issue Number 2, giving voters tomorrow the
final say on where they`re going to go on this issue.

Kasich tried to boost support for Issue 2 by running to his former
employer, FOX News.



SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: You`re getting demonized. You`re getting
beaten up. You have literally millions of dollars of ads now, what, $60
million I think --

KASICH: I would think it would be closer to that.

HANNITY: They`re busing in union people from around the country. I
know, because I met one of the bus drivers. And unions are giving free
weekends in Ohio for people that will come and protest you.


SCHULTZ: Not even Sean Hannity`s made up numbers are helping Kasich.
The law has generated so much negative attention even prominent Republicans
are against it in the state.


SCHULTZ: Republicans like Republican mayor of Lancaster, Ohio, David
Smith, and retired Ohio Supreme Court judge, Republican Andy Douglas, are
opponents of Senate Bill 5.

Even right wing talk show host Bill Cunningham says he`s voting no on
Issue 2.

A recent survey by Ohio voters shows Issue 2 losing by 25 points.

So, this is where we stand at this hour. This isn`t a pro-union or an
anti-union issue. This is an attack on the middle class workers of
America. It affects you and your state as well, because it sets the
template on what is going to happen in other states around this country.

And here`s where we are -- I take you right back to the chart we`ve
seen so many times. You have a radical governor here in Ohio who is asking
middle class workers, give me a little more. Give me your pension. Give
me your health care.


SCHULTZ: And by the way, don`t bother me at the negotiating table,
I`m going to fix those rules, too.

We went into a couple of wars that weren`t paid for. We had big
pharma, we had Bush tax cuts.

So, now, we fast forward 10 years later, and now, the radical
governors, not only Kasich, but Walker and Snyder and Scott and Christie --
well, hell, they just want the middle class workers to suck it up and pay a
little bit more.

I want you to take a look at this graph that I show quite often. This
is the income gap that we have seen over the last 30 years in this country.
The red liners is where the Republican governors are. They want
legislation and they want tax breaks for corporations of the wealthiest
Americans that is going to help those red liners.

You know where middle classers are? Middle classers are down on the
blue line. That`s where their income has gone over the last 30 years.
Then if you want to make it a union issue, OK, we`ll do that tonight, too.
We`ll show you how important unions are to this country.


SCHULTZ: Here`s another graph. Union household membership over the
last 30 years has declined in America. That`s the red line.

The blue line shows you where the income has followed, along with a
lack of union membership across America.

So, you can say it`s all about, you know, union membership -- fine.
But you know the bigger picture here is -- Karl Rove even said it -- this
is the last bastion for the liberals in this country and the workers in
this country to stand up. And if they can knock down the foundation of
organized labor in this country, they will put up the sign that says
"mission accomplished." They`ve already done it with the Supreme Court of
Citizens United.

Let me tell you something, folks -- this is how you fight back against
Citizens United. You come together and you don`t give up.


SCHULTZ: And we want you to get your cell phones out. I want to know
what you think.

How would you vote on Issue 2 here in Ohio? Text "A" for yes, text
"B" for no to 622639. You can always go to our blog at

We also want to hear from you on Twitter. Tell us what you think on
@EdShow and use the #EdShowIssue2. We`ll have some of your tweets live at
the bottom of the screen.

I saw a gentleman sitting over here and he says, you know what? He`s
going to start tweeting right now because he wants to see on the screen.
All right.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight is AFL-CIO president, Richard Trumka,
Harold Schaitberger, president of International Association of
Firefighters, and former governor of the state of Ohio, Mr. Ted Strickland.


SCHULTZ: Gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight.

Governor, let`s visit with you, first. I appreciate you being here.

Why didn`t Ohio see this coming in 2010? What was it? Where was the

TED STRICKLAND (D), FORMER OHIO GOVERNOR: Well, you know, people were
hurting and are hurting, and I understand that. We all understand that. I
met a young man on the sidewalk walking here this evening who is homeless
and hungry. And across this country, people have lost their jobs.

But let me tell you, Ed, the firefighters and the nurses and the
teachers and the police officers didn`t cause this dilemma. It was -- it
was human greed and it emanated from Wall Street.

And now -- and now these good folks surrounding us and across our
state are being made scapegoats and we`re putting a stop to it in Ohio and
we want to send a message across this country that they pushed us as far as
they can push us, and we`re going to be pushing back.


SCHULTZ: Mr. Trumka, Senate Bill 5, I mean, is it a deliberate
attempt to undermine the unions and organization and really knock down the
final wall now that we have seen Citizens United passed?

RICHARD TRUMKA, AFL-CIO PRESIDENT: Ed, there`s no question about it.
I mean, they know that these people have a voice. When they come together
and they talk, they can change things. And see, that`s what this is really
all about, Ed. This isn`t just about Kasich, this isn`t about Ohio.

This is about whether typical people can change this economy for the
better so that we can all make a decent living. That`s what this is all

And that bill 5 was to try to stop that, prevent us from having power,
break our back so that they could have the playing field all to themselves.
They got a surprise.

SCHULTZ: Is it the most egregious thing about this is it ends

TRUMKA: Well, I think there are several things. It ends collective
bargaining. Without collective bargaining, you don`t have a ladder into
the middle class. Yes, it doesn`t culminate at arbitration. But once you
take bargaining away and you give a guy like Kasich absolute right to
control firefighters, to control nurses, to control police officers, you
end up with a system that doesn`t work.

Middle class America gets hurt and gets hurt badly. This bill will
hurt public safety, it will hurt public education and it will hurt the
middle class.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Schaitberger, talking about safety. What are the safety
concerns here connected in this bill?

HAROLD SCHAITBERGER, IAFF PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, this bill
prevents our members from being able to negotiate the kind of turnout gear
and equipment that allows them to do the very difficult and tough job that
they perform every single day, communities across the state. It prevents
them from making sure that we have enough firefighters right on these rigs
that can do an adequate job and go home safe after their shift.

This goes right to the heart of being able to make sure that we can
maintain good, essential, public safety services in this community.

SCHULTZ: Your men and women have been banging on stores down the
stretch. When you go to a home in Ohio, do they know what the issue is?
Do the people get it?

SCHAITBERGER: They do get it because they understand now that this
really -- what this really is all about is those who really want all of the
power. That those who are really trying to take this country back 100
years, where all the wealth, all the rich, all the power was in the hands
of a very few.

And the people of Ohio are listening to all of our members, all of
these workers. They`re listening to these firefighters out here telling
them that this is about trying to keep our neighborhoods safe.


SCHAITBERGER: This is about a strong middle class and this is about
giving average workers the dignity of work.

SCHULTZ: Governor Strickland, one of the things that Governor Kasich
has told the media time and time again, that if this stays in place, it
will help him make up the budget gap. What will it do to the budget? You
know the numbers.

STRICKLAND: Well, first of all, he did not have an $8 billion budget
gap to fill. That`s the beginning. But listen, these are good folks here.
Firefighters, nurses, you know, they don`t make a lot of money. They just
want to make enough to have a middle class lifestyle.

SCHULTZ: Well, let`s cut to the chase on that. We`re talking --
we`re talking the average firefighter in this state makes just over $40,000
a year.

Harold, is that correct?

SCHAITBERGER: That`s correct.

SCHULTZ: OK. So, basically, the governor is asking middle class
Americans to pay more. I mean, to cut on the health care, cut on the
pension, also, you don`t get the raises that you would get in the past.
And he thinks that he`s going to balance the budget of this state on the
backs of middle classers.

I`m asking you, could it be done in this stays in place?

STRICKLAND: No. And there`s a double standard here, Ed. When this
governor came to office, his gave his chief of staff nearly $50,000 more
than I gave my chief of staff.


STRICKLAND: He gave his staff raises, some of them up to 40 percent,
and at the same time, he wants more from firefighters and nurses and
teachers and police officers. It`s just simply out of balance. There`s no
fairness in what they`re proposing to be done through this draconian

SCHAITBERGER: And while the governor is suggesting that the problems
are in the cities with their revenues, what he really did is take his
budget and take $700 million away from local communities, communities that
now are facing layoffs, putting people out of work -- and this is all an
orchestrated effort.

SCHULTZ: And, Mr. Trumka, what has this done to the union movement in
America? Has this galvanized a lot of workers maybe you haven`t seen in
the past?


TRUMKA: This is growing. We`re together like we`ve never been
together before. They understand, he wants these people to pay for tax
cuts for the rich.

We`ve already given too much. It`s brought us all together and we`re
all saying that the economy works fine for the top 1 percent, but it needs
to work for us and for middle class America and we won`t settle for less
until it does.

SCHULTZ: Richard Trumka, Harold Schaitberger, Governor Strickland,
thanks for joining us tonight. I appreciate your time.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there on the bottom of the
screen and share thoughts on Twitter using #edshowissue2.

Senate Bill 5 eliminated pay raises for public workers, but Governor
Kasich still gets one? I`ll tell you why Republicans think shared
sacrifice doesn`t apply to them.

And in other big news today, a fourth woman accusing Herman Cain of
sexual harassment goes public. She`s giving specifics and she wants the
Republican front-runner to come clean and fess up.

This is THE ED SHOW live in Ohio. Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, Republicans are pulling out all stops to keep
their union busting law. Dirty tricks are being played down to the wire.

And while union busting governors are taking it out on the middle
class, Republicans in Congress, they`re not doing anything to help.
Anybody here think John Boehner is doing his job right now?

Well, he says he is. We`ll ask Congressman Tim Ryan and Congresswoman
Betty Sutton what they think.

A fourth woman comes forward with a sexual harassment claim against
Herman Cain and she`s speaking out.

This is THE ED SHOW live from Columbus. Stay with us. We`re right


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW from Columbus, Ohio.

Not only is Governor John Kasich undermini9ng the middle class in this
state, Republicans in the Congress aren`t doing anything for working
Americans at all.

But Ohio`s John Boehner, speaker of the House, seems to think
everything is just great.



a committee of 535 people. Frankly, it was designed not to work. My job
is to make it work. And it is working.


SCHULTZ: Speaker Boehner, the people here in Ohio don`t think it`s
working. The American people know Republicans are willing to sabotage the
economy to hurt this president.

By a 50 percent to 44 percent, Americans agree Republicans in Congress
are playing politics by blocking Obama`s proposals. Among independents,
the percentage is even greater. The numbers are staggering.

Let`s bring in Congresswoman Betty Sutton and also Congressman Tim
Ryan both of Ohio.


SCHULTZ: Great to have both of you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

Congresswoman, is this a do-nothing Congress, in your opinion?

REP. BETTY SUTTON (D), OHIO: Well, the Congress isn`t focused on what
it needs to be focused on. And that is putting America back to work.


SCHULTZ: Why, is this a strategy, do you believe they`re trying to
sabotage the economy?

SUTTON: I think that they`ve said as much. Their main goal is to
keep this president from getting elected. And the way they are going about
it is letting people fall off the cliff. And it`s not acceptable.

Tomorrow in Ohio, we`re going to send a message. We`re going to send
a message.


SCHULTZ: Tim, I`ll ask you the same question.

Is this a plan being played out by the Republicans to sabotage the

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: Well, this is what Mitch McConnell said they
were going to do from the very beginning. We`re going to make Obama a one
termer regardless of what it does to anyone else in the country.

And that`s exactly what they`re doing. No jobs bill. Tried to pass
something for teachers and firefighters in the Senate, nada. And right
down the line.

Any time there`s an attempt to try to get the economy moving again,
the Republicans are sitting on their hands because they know at the end of
the day it may help them politically, regardless of who goes down with the

SCHULTZ: Is this the way it`s going to be the next year.

RYAN: I`m sorry?

SCHULTZ: Is this the way it`s going to be for the next year, that
it`s just going to be this bickering back and forth going into November,
2012 and really nothing is going to be done if they`re out to sabotage the

RYAN: Well, I think tomorrow when we win with maybe 60 percent --


RYAN: -- that this may -- this may -- this may shift the agenda. If
we get our people out to vote tomorrow, if the people that are as energized
as this tonight tomorrow and they get out the vote, we have a huge vote.
We will reshape the debate, not only in Ohio but in the country.

There will be a lot of -- there will be a lot of representatives who
have to go up for re-election next year that will be police, fire,
teachers, social workers and everyone else.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, do you think this will get Speaker Boehner`s

SUTTON: I think absolutely. At a time when elected officials from
the Congress, to the statehouse, should be working on putting America back
to work, Kasich has decided to attack our firefighters, our police
officers, our teachers, our nurses?


SUTTON: These people are not the enemy. Our workers, they`re our
heroes. They`re our neighbors, they`re our friends. We need to get people
back to work.


SUTTON: And this is the day that we make our stand. Tomorrow, we
make our stand for the middle class.

SCHULTZ: Earlier today, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was
asked about President Obama`s place on this. This is the answer.


supports the collective bargaining rights of Americans and strongly
believes who should vote no on 2.


SCHULTZ: Is this going to have any effect on 2012, Congressman?

RYAN: Without a doubt. Because the last 30 years, if you`ve showed
the stats, they`ve divided Middle America -- who`s in a union, who`s not in
a union? Who`s in a public union, who`s in a private union? Who`s black,
who`s white, who`s gay, who`s straight?

They divided us right down the middle. We`re now united.

SUTTON: You know, we`ve been in a class war for a long time, but it`s
only been the upper 1 percent that has been using all their power and their
money to look out for themselves. And it`s time that the 99 percent wake

SCHULTZ: The country is watching Ohio. No doubt.

Congresswoman Betty Sutton, and, Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio --
thanks for joining us tonight.


SCHULTZ: Next, the latest on today`s explosive development for the
Herman Cain campaign.

And later, since Republicans are down in the polls heading into
tomorrow`s vote, they`re trying every dirty trick in the book. John
Nichols of "The Nation" joins me.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW live from Columbus, Ohio --
where Republican Governor John Kasich is trying to spin his assault on
public workers as something positive. More on that coming up.

But there is other news of the day. How will Republican presidential
candidate Herman Cain spin this one?

Today, Sharon Bialek became the first woman accusing Herman Cain of
sexual misconduct to go public and provide specific allegations against
him. Mrs. Bialek worked for the National Restaurant Association Education
Foundation and says she sought Mr. Cain`s help to find work after she was
fired from the group in the summer of 1997.

Cain agreed to meet with Bialek in Washington. And following dinner
and drinks, Bialek says Cain grabbed her in a sexually aggressive manner.


SHARON BIALEK, CAIN ACCUSER: He suddenly reached over and he put his
hand on my leg, under my skirt and reached for my genitals. He also
grabbed my head and brought it toward his crotch.

I was very, very surprised and very shocked. I said, "What are you
doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This isn`t what I came here for."
Mr. Cain said, "You want a job, right?`


SCHULTZ: The Cain campaign denies all allegations of harassment.

Joining me now is Democratic strategist and former candidate for
Congress, Krystal Ball, and MSNBC political analyst and Republican
strategist Joe Watkins. Great to have both of you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: Joe, you first. When does Herman Cain become collateral
damage for the Republicans? I mean, how many more women have to come out
before this is a problem for the party? What do you think?

WATKINS: Well, clearly if you`re a candidate for the Republican
nomination for the presidency, you don`t want this to be your daily
exercise, answering the newest allegation. And what makes this more
difficult is the fact that now there`s a face on this allegation.

So it is still an allegation. It`s her word against his. We haven`t
heard his side of the story yet. If you`re a candidate for the presidency,
you really want to be talking about how you put Americans back to work.

So this puts Herman Cain in a difficult position. But I guess we`ll
all wait to see what he has to say tomorrow with regards to her allegation.

SCHULTZ: Krystal, this accuser says she wants to give a voice to
other women who might have been harassed by Cain. Is her statement today a
game changer in your opinion?

in mind, Ed, I mean, Herman Cain`s favorability`s dropped nine points among
Republican voters over the past week. So his narrative that he was holding
steady and he was having this great fund-raising results was not really

People were already starting to sour on him. Now he can no longer
play the role of the victim, because we have an actual victim. We have
actual allegations. He can go longer say --

WATKINS: This is an allegation.

BALL: We can no longer say -- he was hiding behind the fact that
these were anonymous women. They weren`t willing to come forward. Now we
have a face, a name. We have specific allegations. And I think that it`s
game over for Herman Cain.

WATKINS: I don`t know that it`s game over yet, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Game over, Joe?

WATKINS: No, this kind of thing has happened to candidates in the
past. I mean, candidate Bill Clinton faced very serious allegations when
he was a candidate for the presidency in 1992 and a woman came up and held
a news conference similar to this one. And he dealt with those charges and
was able to move on, successfully win the Democratic nomination and of
course win the election for president.

I wouldn`t say this is a game changer in that regard. Clearly --


BALL: say we move on from this. Then are we going to focus on his
flip-flopping on abortion? Are we going to move on to his flip-flopping on
negotiating with terrorists, his economic plan which is devastating for
middle class American, his rhetoric that if you don`t have a job, blame
yourself? Is that really what we`re going to move on to?

Because I think in that scenario, it`s not very good for Herman Cain

SCHULTZ: Ed, you raise a good point, Ed, when you talk about family
values and the Republican party caring deeply about it. I think a lot of
Americans, not just Republicans, care about family values. We all care
about fairness. It`s not -- we don`t want anybody to be wronged.

We like justice as Americans. But, again, these are allegations and
we`ll have to see whether or not -- what the candidate has to say about it.

SCHULTZ: I`ll tell you what, there was certainly a certain standard
for Anthony Weiner that he had to get out right away. And now that you`ve
got one of your own, I mean, it`s one, then two, then three, now four. Now
a press conference. It`s drip, drip, drip.

How are the Republicans going to get the media talking about -- and
the rest of the country talking about jobs when they have Herman Cain, a
Herman Cain story, Joe, coming out every other day?

WATKINS: You`re right, Ed. You raise a good point. It`s tough.
It`s tough. You don`t want this to dominate the news media. It would be
better to be talking about how you put Americans who aren`t working back to
work. We have 14 million of our fellow Americans who aren`t working right
now. Much rather see them working and talking about plans to get them back
to work, rather than talking about this.

SCHULTZ: But nobody`s throwing Herman Cain under the bus. I mean,
they`re all willing to say, well, this is just a private matter, and it
really doesn`t matter. When do they start becoming credible? I think that
is the key question at this point.

Krystal Ball, Joe Watkins, great to have both of you with us tonight.
I appreciate your time.

One Ohio Republican says he shouldn`t have to share and sacrifice
because he earns his paycheck. I have a lot of Ohioans here with me that
earn their paychecks, too. We`ll hear from them coming up. Stay with us.



BILL COHEN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Why didn`t you support the idea of
legislators cutting their pay five percent?

ST. REP LOU BLESSING (R), OHIO: Because it`s not merited. I earn my
pay. I think that was just political baloney. So they can say in an ad,
gee, you know, they didn`t support a pay cut. Well, no, I don`t support a
pay cut. Republicans earn their money. Apparently Democrats don`t.

They feel they should be paid less. That may be true. Maybe we`ll
just cut the Democrats` pay.


SCHULTZ: That was Ohio State Representative Lou Blessing saying
Republican state legislators shouldn`t have to participate in shared
sacrifice because they earn their pay. What do you think? Do Lou blessing
and his Republican buddies earn their pay more than these folks sitting
behind me? More than firefighters, more than police officers, more than
teachers, more than nurses?

Mr. Blessing is more than happy to force working Americans to
participate in shared sacrifice by making them pay more with their health
care and their pensions and taking away their collective bargaining rights.

Meanwhile, members of the general assembly earn a minimum of 60,584
dollars. And 62 of the 70 members who voted for Senate Bill 5 earn more
than the minimum because they get leadership bonuses as much as 34,000

Governor John Kasich earns almost 150,000 dollars a year. That`s
10,000 dollars more than what Ted Strickland was earning when he was
governor. Kasich is still eligible for an automatic three percent annual
raises, which Senate Bill 5 eliminated for public union workers.

Republicans in Ohio are no different than any of the other Republicans
across this country. They think shared sacrifice means sacrificing --
middle class Americans need to do more than the top one or two percent.

Joining me now is Sue Taylor. She is the president of the Ohio
Federation of Teachers. Jack Reall is the president of the Columbus
Firefighters Union Local 67. Jim Gilbert, the president of the Fraternal
Order of Police, Capital City, Lodge Number 9. And Sean Grayson, the
general counsel for AFSCME Number 8.

Great to have both of you with us tonight. Sue, I want to know, do
you think those Republican legislators earn their pay as opposed to you

one teacher or one children`s service worker who went into our job to get
rich. And if merit pay and pay for performance is based on whether I
believe I`m doing my job, like it is for Governor Kasich, then there`s
something wrong with their system of merit pay.

Because we go into teaching and we go into working with children from
troubled homes because we want to make a difference in their lives. We
want to make society better.

SCHULTZ: Jim, what about the arrogance of that sound bite, of that
Republican saying that Democrats apparently don`t earn what they make?

JIM GILBERT, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: I would welcome them to come
out and work on any of our streets in the inner city of Columbus,
Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, or Dayton. Come out and ride in a police
car for eight hours and deal with what we deal with to ensure that we go
home to our families safe at the end of our shift.

SCHULTZ: What will this do to the forces?

GILBERT: It`s a huge concern for me. In fact, one of the lies they
talk about is that they`re not changing collective bargaining for police
officers or firefighters. It eliminates collective bargaining for
supervisors. These are street supervisors that are there alongside their
fellow officers and firefighters, doing the same job, ensuring the safety
of the citizens of Ohio.

SCHULTZ: Jack Reall, you and I have talked quite a bit about this as
it comes down to the wire. What`s the most egregious thing in this bill
that the people need to know?

egregious thing in this bill is it takes away any of our ability to have a
voice with our employer. We lose collective bargaining, we lose the
opportunity -- or binding arbitration of collective bargaining, we lose the
opportunity to sit down with our employer about anything and discuss it.

Most of the time for us, that`s a safety issue. Staffing.

SCHULTZ: What does it say about the demeanor of this issue and the
conversation when you hear an elected Republican say something like that
about earning? He earns his but other folks don`t?

REALL: He`s out of touch. That`s what it boils down to. As we heard
earlier, an average firefighter in the state of Ohio makes 42,000 dollars a
year and works 25 percent more than every other worker in the country.
Those guys are making 60,000 dollars a year plus for part-time employment.

He`s out of touch with what the working class has.

SCHULTZ: Sean Grayson of AFSCME, your thoughts on the way Kasich has
handled this whole thing? If he had to do it over again, do you think he

SEAN GRAYSON, AFSCME COUNCIL 8: The Ohio House -- leadership of the
Ohio House has already said they`re going to ignore this vote and ignore
the vote of the people and even if Issue 2 is defeated, they`re going to
come back with more of the same in the next legislative session.

So we have to make this victory large enough to make that something
they don`t contemplate, let alone try.

SCHULTZ: What about the comment about he earns his and Democrats

GRAYSON: I tell you, you know, collective bargaining works.
Collective bargaining has worked in this state since 2008. Public servants
across this state have given back taxpayers over eight billion dollars in
losses in pay and benefits and unpaid furlough days and increases in health
insurance cost.

They know that Ohio is hurting and they have sacrificed. What this
comment says is, we don`t have to sacrifice. Public employees are not an
ATM machine. You can`t keep going back to their wallet time and time again
and expect them to be able to perform their jobs.

SCHULTZ: Sean Grayson, thanks so much. Folks, what it all comes down
to, I mean, no matter what side of the issue, if you`re a fair minded
American, you certainly see that this is really about fairness.

This is about who`s pulling their weight in our economy. Pro Issue 2
groups are getting so desperate, they`re lying to Ohioans. John Nichols
has the latest on that. Stay with us. We`re right back in Columbus.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. We`re coming to you live from
outside the Firefighters Union Hall in Columbus, Ohio, ahead of tomorrow`s
historic vote on repealing Senate Bill 5. The anti-collective bargaining
folks have been using every dirty trick in the book to try to win the vote.

The latest offense is this flyer, which appears to be a nonpartisan
advertisement for a new hotline to fight misinformation about Issue 2. But
when you call the hotline, this is what you`re going to hear.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to the Issue 2 answer line. After this
message, you can speak with a real person, but only if you choose to. Our
state legislature recently reformed Ohio law to protect our public
services. A yes vote on Issue 2 keeps this important update. A no vote
repeals the change and leads to higher taxes and layoffs of public workers.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in John Nichols, Washington correspondent of
"The Nation" magazine. John, what do you make of this hotline gimmick?

JOHN NICHOLS, "THE NATION": It`s part and parcel of everything
they`ve done throughout this campaign. There`s one gimmick after another
to try to deceive the people. Because you saw from the start of this, when
you file 1.3 million signatures, it`s obvious where the sentiments are.

So it`s only deception that`s going to turn this around.

SCHULTZ: What other tricks are they playing to fool the voters?

NICHOLS: Well, almost every newspaper in Ohio has called out the
advertising that has been done on television by the Yes On 2 folks. Also,
Liz Cheney`s -- Dick Cheney`s daughter -- Politifact has called the
mailings out again and again and again. They make deceptive claims and
they go right into people`s homes with those deceptive mailings.

SCHULTZ: What are we seeing as far as voter suppression?

NICHOLS: Well, look, shutting down early voting in Ohio is a big
deal. This is a state that`s had early voting for a long time. People
know to vote on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. And they haven`t been
able to. There are people in Toledo who went to their local elections
board, knocked on the door and found that board`s door locked on Saturday.

SCHULTZ: John, great to have you with us as always. Let`s bring in
Maureen Reedy. She`s a Ohio 2002 Teacher of the Year. And David Quolke,
who`s the president of the Cleveland Teachers Union.

Great to have some teachers with us tonight here on THE ED SHOW. Near
and dear to my heart.

Maureen, tell us what does Senate Bill 5 do to the teacher in the

MAUREEN REEDY, OHIO 2002 TEACHER OF THE YEAR: Well, really, the issue
here is silence and suppressing the teachers` voice. I`ve been teaching
for 29 years, Ed. And my voice is my students` voice. My students don`t
go to the administration to advocate for what they need. I do.

I talk about increased needs for technology to prepare my students for
the 21st century, more resources for special needs students. And, you
know, really our voice is our students` voice. And to silence and suppress
us is taking away our students` voice as well.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Quolke, you`re the president of the Cleveland Teachers
Union. And Governor Kasich made it very clear how he felt about teachers
unions. He wanted to get organized labor out of the classroom. Would it
be a better product if organized labor was out of the classroom?

You know, Maureen said it best. Teachers are the professional advocates
for kids. Whether it`s class size, whether it is services for kids with
disabilities, I tell you, nothing is hand given to us.

These are things we fight for. These are things we advocate for. And
kids` l earning environments are those working conditions.

SCHULTZ: What`s the average teacher in Cleveland, Ohio, make?

QUOLKE: The average teacher is I believe right around 50,000 dollars
a year.

SCHULTZ: And so this would obviously force them to lose discretionary
income and also bargaining rights, correct?

QUOLKE: Correct. Correct. I mean, it is basically aimed at taking
away the voice of the teachers and really balancing the budgets on the
backs --

SCHULTZ: Maureen, I`ve seen some of the commercials here in Ohio.
Governor Kasich has commercials running with all the kids saying, if we`re
going to keep kids in Ohio, we have to support Senate Bill 5. What`s your
response to that?

REEDY: I`d like to say, if you want to keep quality teachers in Ohio,
you need to vote no on Issue 2 to repeal Senate Bill 5.

SCHULTZ: Do you think -- you think the governor has been an honest
broker through all of this?

REEDY: I think the governor has made a broad sweep in taking away the
voice of teachers, the experts in the classroom. You know, we are on the
front lines with students every day. We deal with the vulnerable students,
the fragile students. Sometimes our classrooms are the only safe and
secure place for students during their day.

And so he`s attempting to take our voice away, take the voice of the
expert away from advocating for what our students need to best learn and
what we need to best teach. And that`s wrong.

SCHULTZ: Maureen Reedy and David Quolke, I appreciate your time
tonight. Thanks for coming in.

Rush Limbaugh has thrown his weight around the Pro Issue 2 effort.
We`ll see what this crowd thinks of his anti-union rant. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Tonight in our survey, I asked, how would you vote on Issue
2 in Ohio? Four percent of you said yes; 96 percent of you said no.

And here`s a note for you Twitter fans. THE ED SHOW is trending in

Coming up, Rush Limbaugh weighs in on Issue 2. And not only is he
offensive, his facts are flat-out wrong, again. We`ll be right back.



RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Polling indicates that Ohioans,
by a substantial margin, want to overturn the new law, which means if this
is true, that people in Ohio want to rape themselves. People in Ohio want
to pay higher taxes to pay higher salaries to state workers, state workers
who will earn twice what their private sector counterparts.

This is what the polling is telling us. You live in Ohio and you make
45,000 dollars a year, you are in favor of paying taxes sufficiently high
enough to pay a public sector worker 90,000 dollars a year, plus a lifetime


SCHULTZ: There you have it. Rush Limbaugh, the biggest name in
conservative talk, is lying through his teeth about Issue 2. He`s pushing
the right wing talking point that public sector workers earn significantly
more than those in the private sector.

But the Economic Policy Institute found that when you factor in total
compensation, including wages and benefits, public employees in Ohio earn
3.5 percent less on an hourly basis than their private sector counterparts.

Governor Kasich, now, the last time we were here in Ohio, I asked you
to come over here and get on the program. You never even called me back.
You never even -- I mean, I mean, you could have used a fax machine. You
could have used old technology. You could have sent me an e-mail. You
could have Tweeted me. You could have done anything.

You could have gone over to Sean Hannity`s program for the umpteenth
time and say, I`m afraid of Ed. I don`t want to talk to him. So governor
-- governor, this is reserved for you. Reserved for Governor John Kasich.
You missed tonight. We`ll be here tomorrow night, not only at 8:00, but
11:00 eastern time.

So governor, here`s what I need you to do, Governor Kasich. Be a man.
Stand up, win, lose or draw. If your side wins, we`ll interview you. Come
on, dude. Tell us where it`s all going.

Why in the world -- are you still under contract with Fox News?
That`s what it is. I got it. Dog gone contracts will do it every time,
won`t they?

Joining me now, governor, is Rob Barrett, a police officer here in
Columbus who you called an idiot. Rob, I got to ask you, have you gotten
any smarter since Kasich said you were an idiot?


SCHULTZ: How offended were you by that, when you saw that tape when
he talked about that story when you stopped him and ticketed him and you
did your job?

BARRETT: I was very offended by what he said. It wasn`t because of
my job. It was because of the job that he endangered, which was a state
highway patrol trooper, who I was there to protect.

SCHULTZ: You did your job. Just like all these other Americans are
going to continue to do their job.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. We will be back live here in
Columbus tomorrow night with THE ED SHOW.


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