The Ed Show for Tuesday, November 8, 2011 8p.m. show
Read the transcript to the Tuesday 8p.m. show
Guests: John Nichols, Sherrod Brown, Richard Trumka, Harold Schaitberger,
Lee Saunders, Jack Reall, Matt Meister, Brian Hester, Nina Turner, Tim
ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW, live from Columbus, Ohio, tonight -- where the polls are now closed.
It`s early, but it`s looking good for a no vote on Issue 2.
We`ll have full coverage here in Columbus, and you will see what the
middle class is all about right here on THE ED SHOW. Let`s get to work.
TED STRICKLAND (D), FORMER OHIO GOVERNOR: We want to send a message
across this country that they pushed us as far as they can push us and
we`re going to be pushing back.
SCHULTZ (voice-over): It`s all over but the counting. We`ve got full
election night coverage with John Nichols of "The Nation" magazine, MSNBC`s
Rachel Maddow, and Ohio`s Senator Sherrod Brown.
On the election`s impact on Ohio and beyond: AFL-CIO President Richard
Trumka, and International Association of Firefighters President Harold
Schaitberger on where the union movement goes from here.
The Herman Cain drama explodes again.
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course I would be willing
to do a lie detector test.
SCHULTZ: Former RNC Chairman Michael Steele is here.
All that plus the teachers, police officers, firefighters of Ohio, and
an empty chair reserved for the governor.
Our election night coverage starts now.
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks -- live from
Polls closed about 30 minutes ago, as Ohio decides whether to vote no
on Issue Number 2. Repeal Senate Bill 5 and send a message to the rest of
the nation. It is in my opinion a turning point, rejecting the Republican
attack on middle class workers across this country. But tonight, in Ohio,
this is ground zero.
SCHULTZ: Senate Bill 5 is at the center of it all. It limits
collective bargaining rights for public workers. It is a slap in the face
to firefighters, police officers and teachers -- you know, the people that
teach your children.
SCHULTZ: It depends -- it definitely demands more sacrifice from the
middle class workers in this state. But this is the first election, and I
think we should all take notice of this, this is the first election since
the 99 percenters started saying "enough is enough" all across this
Last night, at a rally in Clermont County, Governor John Kasich told
the crowd this. He says, "I`ll tell you this. The rest of the country,
these other states, they watch us, they learn from us."
SCHULTZ: Exactly right, Governor. The rest of the country, these
other states, where Republican governors are trampling workers` rights,
they are about to learn something from the state of Ohio.
SCHULTZ: Everything, everything this show has been talking about at
the regional and the national level is all merging here tonight.
And we can make no mistake what has brought every state budget across
this country to where we are right now. We went into two wars unfunded.
We gave tax cuts to the wealthy and didn`t know how we were going to pay
for it. We had a big deal with big pharma.
We are here because of those things. This is why states aren`t
There was a bill called No Child Left Behind. And the federal money
never came to the states across America. That, too, was a big fraud played
on American public education.
So, here we are now 10 years after all of these tax cuts started.
Look at the people around me. Look at the people in the street. Look at
the 99ers. They are speaking out.
We are one year away from a presidential election.
SCHULTZ: And I can tell you right now, these folks here in Ohio, they
don`t want to talk about sexual allegations. They want to talk about jobs.
They want to talk about the economy. They want to talk about health care.
They want to talk about future generations having the same country that
they grew up in.
So, this is -- this is a big night in America. And a big political
message is going to be sent to the hard right wingers of this country. And
we`re going to find out if votes are stronger than the wallet of the Koch
SCHULTZ: Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question, if Senate Bill 5 is repealed, will Republicans
finally recognize the power of the middle class? Text "A" for yes, text
"B" for no, to 622639. Always go to our blog on Ed.MSNBC.com and on
Election Day is trending across Ohio. If you`re not with me in
Columbus, still join the conversation using #EdShowIssue2. We`ll put your
tweets on the air at the bottom of the screen. Especially if you love
North Dakota State, because they`re undefeated and ranked number one in the
nation. But that`s something else.
Joining me now is John Nichols, Washington correspondent of "The
Nation" magazine, a great friend of this crowd. I can tell you that.
JOHN NICHOLS, THE NATION: That`s right.
SCHULTZ: John, our first numbers, according to the secretary of
state`s office, with less than 1 percent of the precincts reporting, yes on
Issue 2 is at 33 percent. No on Issue 2 is at 67 percent. What do you
make of --
NICHOLS: That`s the outline of a landslide, Ed. Now, we don`t know
if it`s going to hold. What is significant is those numbers are coming
both from Democratic Cuyahoga County but also from Republican leaning Lake
County. What it means is those numbers are big in both places. We may
actually be having Republicans coming out to vote against John Kasich.
SCHULTZ: How rare --
SCHULTZ: The voter turnout -- was it as big, does it appear to be as
NICHOLS: Yes, it looks to be a very substantial turnout. By 6:00
tonight, the unions had already gotten more than 80 percent of their
targeted voters to the polls. That is absolutely presidential level on
NICHOLS: It won`t be a total presidential turnout, but the union vote
SCHULTZ: Any voting problems that you`ve heard of? I`ve been in the
office all day back here. I haven`t heard anything about --
NICHOLS: No, this is Ohio -- aside from closing down the early voting
before election day, which they shouldn`t have done, Ohio has appeared to
run a clean election.
And the interesting thing is, polling places I`ve been to around this
region, people are saying turnout is overwhelming. And the key thing is
that these unions, steelworkers, iron workers, autoworkers, teachers, they
got their people out. That`s a big deal.
SCHULTZ: The middle class in Ohio is speaking out tonight?
NICHOLS: I think we`re going to hear a great big yell tonight, Ed
SCHULTZ: John Nichols. We`ll be back at 11:00 as well for a live
show here on MSNBC.
Let`s turn now to Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown, he is with us tonight.
And also, Rachel Maddow, host of "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" here on MSNBC.
SCHULTZ: Rachel, let me go to you first, if I may. What message, in
your opinion, does it send to other states and governors if the defeat is
as big as it appears to be at this point? With early voting, I know. But
what message, Rachel, do you think this sends to other Republican governors
and maybe all the way to the White House?
RACHEL MADDOW, "TRMS" HOST: I mean, again, Ed, you know, we don`t
want to extrapolate too much from this just small proportion of the vote
in, and there`s, you know, there`s worries that polling on issues like this
can overstate what the results are going to be, particularly when one side,
in this case the no on Issue 2 side, is really, really depending on
turnout. It`s a lot easier to tell a pollster who calls you at home that
you`re going to get out and vote against this thing. It`s another thing to
actually get out there and vote.
So, we`ll have to see how this turns out. But if the numbers tonight
do follow the polling and if as John Nichols just said, there does turn out
to be a really strong vote against SB-5, a big no vote on Issue 2 tonight,
I think that the message on this is pretty clear, do not mess with
Americans` hard-won rights unless you want to pay a political price for it.
SCHULTZ: Senator Brown, what message does it send tonight? We`ve had
great voter turnout. This is the first election since the 99ers have been
out there protesting. There seems to be an undercurrent of change taking
place. What are your thoughts?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Well, my thoughts are that the vote
tonight, if it`s what I hope it is, and what I think it`s going to be, it`s
going to send a loud message not just to Toledo and Cleveland and
Cincinnati and Columbus and Ohio, but across the nation. And the message
is: stop the war on the middle class.
You know, I -- you know, this whole idea they always talk about class
warfare, conservatives do, the class warfare has been aimed from the Koch
brothers and John Kasich and the oil industry and the drug companies. That
class war has been aimed right at middle class America.
And tonight, I think is the loudest, strongest voice we`ve heard in a
long, long time saying: stop that. It`s time that government fight for the
middle class, it`s time that we work together to create jobs in Ohio, not
go after bargaining rights, not go after voting rights, not go after
women`s rights, not go after privatizing Medicare and giving it to the
insurance industry. Don`t take Social Security and give it to Wall Street.
Create jobs, work together and fight for the middle class.
SCHULTZ: You know, Rachel, we have seen a lot of money come into
Ohio. Citizens United, it has opened up the flood gates. But we may be
seeing tonight the template on how to fight back against the influence of
outside money because the boots on the ground for the middle classers in
this state has been very clear.
What message does that send, you think, maybe to the Democrats going
into 2012? How much of a confidence boost would this be to see this kind
MADDOW: Ed, you are hitting on the issue that is the single most
important thing about this Ohio vote tonight for Democrats across the
country, for liberals and for centrists across the country. It`s the
reason I think it`s good you have been in Ohio the last couple nights
highlighting this. That`s because in the modern Democratic Party era, in
the sort of Bill Clinton and after Democratic Party era, it is this well-
worn strategy to tack right, to assume that Democrats will turn out. To
basically ignore Democratic base voters, just assume they`ll be there for
Well, you know what, in 2010? They were not there, and we saw what
happened. That`s how we got John Kasich and the big Republican majorities
we`ve got in Ohio, Wisconsin, that have now engendered this huge fight
And who`s fighting back? The Democratic base. And it`s people who
have to work for a living and believe in the rights of the people who have
to work for living and it`s the people who have been ignored by so much of
the Democratic Party infrastructure frankly since Bill Clinton, since Bill
Clinton triangulation strategy.
The whole third way Democratic leadership committee, conservative
Democrat approach to politics has worn out. And it doesn`t work anymore to
turn out Democratic victories in elections. You got to pay attention to
Democratic base issues and base concerns.
I think that if this goes the way it looks to be going tonight, in
Ohio, and if follows the way we`ve seen some real backlash victories in
places like Wisconsin, I think maybe Democrats at the national level will
start getting that kind of message.
SCHULTZ: Senator Brown, let`s do a little history in Ohio. In 1958,
an Ohio Right to Work Bill was soundly defeated. Sixty percent of voters
rejecting it -- and a Republican governor, a Republican senator and
statewide Republicans were also defeated.
If Senate Bill 5 is defeated by a wide margin tonight, what does that
tell you? Are we seeing a real tide turn here politically in the state?
BROWN: I think we are. I think we`re -- I mean, we`re -- this is --
people listening to you tonight, people in that crowd in Columbus are
making history. I don`t mean that lightly.
This is the first time in American history that the right to bargain
collectively, the right to organize and bargain collectively, has been on a
statewide ballot, the first time in American history. And we know we have
a middle class in this country because of the 1930s, President Roosevelt in
a then Democratic House and Senate, set up established collective
bargaining rights. We know what`s happened with the prosperity from World
War II into the last few years when America was a very prosperous country
because people could sit down at the bargaining table and organize and
I think when you see police officers standing with steelworkers,
standing with brick layers, standing with teachers and nurses and
firefighters and iron workers, you`re seeing what people recognize in Ohio,
that collective bargaining works to strengthen the middle class. Nothing
works as well as collective bargaining. If we win tonight, and I think we
will by a good margin, that`s the strong historical message and the strong
message that`s sent to all the other 49 states.
SCHULTZ: And, Rachel, finally, it would seem to me that if the vote
goes the way it looks like it might go tonight in Ohio, this would be
somewhat of a message to Chris Christie in New Jersey, Rick Snyder in
Michigan, Rick Scott in Florida, Scott Walker in Wisconsin. And the
message would be: there is something called a political overreach.
And I really believe that, and I want your take on this -- if this
really is the tea leaves for 2012, I mean, is this really a message for
Republicans that you better get to the program and figure out what`s going
on with the working class in America?
MADDOW: John Kasich, it was three weeks after he was sworn in before
SB-5 was introduced in the Ohio legislature. It was basically his first
priority. At least in Wisconsin, Scott Walker had the good sense to keep
it secret and sort of spring it on the people of Wisconsin who he had not
warned that it was coming until he was sworn in.
Republican governors across the country have made this a priority
because the conservative activist movement that wants a long term
Republican permanent majority in every state they can get it in and the
country as a whole if they can, is pushing for stuff like this. It`s a way
really of putting the Republicans` thumb on the scales for every election
that comes after this because unions have been big supporters of Democratic
So, they`re trying to get rid of unions for partisan reasons. Yes to
advance the war on the middle class, but also so Democrats can`t compete
against corporate money supporting Republicans in elections.
And so, those Republican politicians that have pursued this
conservative movement agenda, they`re now realizing they may be expendable,
too, that the Koch brothers and conservative movement that`s been pushing
this may have been willing to put this through these guys though they`re
going to pay a political price for it. But the conservative movement and
their corporate interest march on. We`re going to see whether or not that
political price comes in 2010 or whether it comes to 2012. The American
people do not like this agenda.
SCHULTZ: Rachel, we`ll see you at the top of the hour. Thanks so
much for joining us.
Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown, thank you for your time.
BROWN: -- proud tonight. Thank you. Ed.
SCHULTZ: You should be. They`re great folks.
Breaking news in Columbus: according to the "Associated Press," your
Democratic Mayor Michael Coleman has won re-election. Just thought you
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow using #EdShowIssue2. We
want to know what you think.
Coming up, the labor movement launched a massive ground game here in
Ohio. Labor leaders Richard Trumka and Harold Schaitberger will join me to
talk about the impact of the ground work on the election, and the
presidential election of 2012.
And it`s the other big story of the day. More drama for Herman Cain.
He says he`ll take a lie detector test if he has to. Will it come to that?
Former chair of the RNC, Michael Steele, to join me.
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW, live in Columbus, Ohio. It`s
early, but it`s looking food for a no vote on Issue Number 2. We`ll be
following the results and bring you the latest numbers throughout the show.
Coming up, Harold Schaitberger and Richard Trumka on labor`s impact on
getting out the vote in the state. State Senator Nina Turner will be here.
What`s next for the Ohio legislature and Governor Kasich on the heels of a
potential big defeat?
And Herman Cain denies the claims of sexual harassment from a fourth
woman and says he is not dropping out of the race. Former RNC Chair
Michael Steele to join me later in the program.
Stay tuned. You`re watching THE ED SHOW live from Columbus, Ohio,
here on MSNBC.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW from Columbus, Ohio. The polls
have been closed for less than an hour. The returns are being tabulated.
At this time, with 1 percent, according to the secretary of state`s
office here in Ohio, yes on Issue 2 is at 33 percent, and no on issue 2 is
at 67 percent.
SCHULTZ: That`s with 1 percent reporting. It`s going to be a long
Let`s turn to Harold Schaitberger, president of the International
Association of Firefighters and Richard Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO.
Now, I understand that both of you gentlemen when you retire you`re
going to go into the roadmap business because you know Ohio that well. Is
HAROLD SCHAITBERGER, IAFF PRESIDENT: I know it a lot better the last
SCHULTZ: Right. The turnout, Richard, what about it? It sounds like
you really got your people out.
RICHARD TRUMKA, AFL-CIO PRESIDENT: You know, this has been the best
unified labor movement effort that we`ve seen. Every sector, whether it`s
-- the public employees did a tremendous job, the private sector did a
great job, the building trades did a great job. We all came together,
educated our members, phone banked them, leafletted them, got them out to
I have to take my hats off to every one of the unions out here. They
did an incredible job of getting their message out.
SCHULTZ: Harold, what does this mean for 2012? I mean, labor is
going to be counted on big-time. You`ve seen a lot of different
organizations come together.
In hindsight, this might have been the best things that`s ever
happened to labor in America.
SCHAITBERGER: Well, first of all, I think this vote is going to show
that the extreme right wing like John Kasich, who took a terrible economy
and took advantage of workers and tried to destroy their values and their
rights was actually an overreach. And Ohio, the citizens of Ohio, have
said, no, we are not going to allow workers to be treated like this.
And I think this energy, and I believe this galvanization of our
members is clearly going to carry over, it`s going to carry over certainly
across this country. But it`s particularly going so carry over in the
battleground states where right wing politicians like Rick Scott, Scott
Walker, Snyder, Chris Christie, are going to have to face an electorate
that is energized.
SCHULTZ: Richard, have you found the template to fight Citizens
United? I mean, are you a lot better tonight than you were back in
Wisconsin a few months ago? I mean, is it starting to grow the
infrastructure, and how to work against Citizens United? Because this is
just a sprinkling of the money that we`re going to be seeing in 2012.
TRUMKA: Absolutely. What this shows is when our members are
motivated, when they`re united, no one can turn them around. They simply
cannot beat us with their money because we put too many people on the
They hire campaign workers. We have thousands, thousands of
volunteers that came out that were motivated, that believed in what they`re
doing, that wanted to protect public safety, that wanted to protect the
public education and wanted to protect the middle class. They`ll do the
same thing next year for candidates that stand with us.
SCHULTZ: What about the divide that has been created? I mean, the
Republicans have come out and done the class warfare conversation. They
pitted American against American. They say that the top 2 percent, they`re
already paying enough. Obviously with the turnout, and with the 99
percenters out there, there`s a different stream of thought out there with
But how would you win over those to see your cause at this point? Or
is that an impossible lift?
TRUMKA: No. I think they`re already with us. If you see the
"Occupy" movement, they`re saying that the economy works for the top 1
percent, not for the rest of us 99 percent. And they want to come out and
change that. What this vote shows tonight is that workers, ordinary
workers coming together, can change this country and create an economy that
works for everybody. That includes those people in the 99 percent.
SCHAITBERGER: Ed, what I think it says is it`s not just about the
workers. All of these workers, this is the citizens of Ohio who have
rejected this governor`s plan, who have rejected this proposal and who are
rejecting this is not the way we treat the working middle class. This is
going to carry over throughout this country next year, particularly in
these battleground states.
SCHULTZ: I want to point out it has not been called yet. You`re very
confident, Harold. I love your confidence.
SCHAITBERGER: I`m confident. I`m very confident.
SCHULTZ: Well, have you ever gotten the labor vote out at this
percentage before? I mean, I can`t remember a response of labor having
this kind of a turnout, especially in an off-year election.
SCHAITBERGER: All you have to do is just look around us, right? This
is -- this is every sector of this great labor movement.
This is private. This is public. This is the trades. This is
And this is replicated by thousands and thousands. This has brought
this labor movement together again with an energy and a resolve that maybe
we haven`t had for a while.
TRUMKA: Let me just tell you what you guys have done. Let me just
say this to you.
TRUMKA: Normally in this type of campaign, people are starting to
tire down. I wish you could have been with us on the walks we had, the
phone banks we had the last couple days. This group of workers isn`t
getting tired. They were getting stronger every day because they sensed
victory. They sensed they were going to turn this whole country around.
SCHULTZ: We`ve had more than 1.1 million doors that were knocked on
in the state of Ohio, more than 4 million flyers distributed over 3,000
work sites, 825,000 pieces of mail sent out, and more than 400,000 people
participated in tele-town halls.
I mean, I think what we`re seeing here tonight is a template on how to
fight back against the corporate money. I mean, you cannot get enough
boots on the ground. You cannot get enough -- I mean, you got to have --
to got to win that conversation in your neighborhood.
TRUMKA: Ed, the other thing you didn`t say, yesterday, just
yesterday, alone, they made over 450,000 phone calls yesterday, alone, to
their brothers and sisters, to get them out to vote. You can`t buy that
kind of help.
They paid for their help. We had volunteers. We outclassed them all
the way along.
SCHAITBERGER: Scores and scores of lives around them. Besides all of
the work that was done, they touched those in their lives, their neighbors,
their friends and they turned this state around.
SCHULTZ: Gentlemen, they`re yelling at me. We have to go. I could
talk to you all night long. Harold Schaitberger and Richard Trumka, thanks
so much for joining us.
The latest numbers on Issue 2, according the secretary of state`s
office, 2 percent reporting. Yes on Issue 2 is 35 percent. No on issue 2
is 65 percent.
We have a great crowd here tonight in Columbus. We`ll hear from some
of them coming up.
Herman Cain says he won`t quit the race, even as a second accuser goes
public. Former RNC chair Michael Steele weighs in.
You`re watching THE ED SHOW live from Columbus, Ohio. We`re right
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. We`re continuing to monitor
tonight`s election results here in Ohio, the latest numbers on Issue 2.
According to the secretary of state`s office, three percent of the
precincts reporting, a yes vote on Issue 2 is at 35 percent; a no vote on
Issue 2 is at 65 percent.
But it`s the other big story of the day that we`re going to pay
attention to now. Herman Cain held a doozy of a press conference earlier
today, denying all allegations of sexual harassment against him. Cain says
he won`t drop out of the race and claims he doesn`t remember anything about
one of his latest accusers, Sharon Bialek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have never acted
inappropriately with anyone, period. The charges and the accusations I
absolutely reject. They simply didn`t happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The Republican front-runner said he`d be willing to take a
lie detector test if he had to. Cain also believes that Bialek`s claims of
sexual misconduct are an attempt to smear his campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: These anonymous allegations are false and now the Democrat
machine in America has brought forth a troubled woman to make false
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Meanwhile, just minutes before Cain spoke, one of his
original accusers went public. Karen Kraushaar received a statement from
the -- received a settlement from the National Restaurant Association back
She`s telling "the New York Times" tonight that she is considering the
idea of a joint press conference with Cain`s other accusers. So the beat
just goes on and on.
Joining me now is MSNBC analyst and former Republican National
Committee Chairman Michael Steele. Michael, great to have you with us
MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER RNC CHAIR: Good to be with you, Ed.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time. You bet. There are four accusers
now and now a fifth woman that has come out. There you have Herman Cain
saying it`s a Democratic machine. You got to put some sense to this for
STEELE: Well, I`ve tried for the last week or so to do that, myself.
And even in conversations with Mr. Cain and his campaign, making it very
clear that, first off, these allegations are very serious. You cannot
dismiss them. You cannot take them lightly.
Even though they`re 12 years old in many cases, or 14 years old, there
were settlements attached to them. You have to address this.
Number two, last week, to go out and say that this was the Perry
campaign doing that and then this evening to say this is the Democrats
doing that -- at this point, America doesn`t care how the press got the
story or where it came from. It`s out there. It is factual. It`s got
live human beings now that are coming forth.
It`s not just Herman Cain speaking to this issue. And so I thought
tonight`s press conference was -- fell a little bit short of the mark. I
thought that he needed to really address the particular accusations from
Miss Bialek yesterday, who had specifics, car, hotel, et cetera, that he I
think needs to be addressed.
So this story is not going away, Ed. And it`s unfortunate coming
right on the -- you know, the precipice of tomorrow night`s debate that
CNBC is going to be hosting. This is going to be front and center, not
just for Herman Cain but for the other seven candidates as well.
And I don`t think they need to be talking about this right now.
SCHULTZ: Well, basically Herman Cain is saying, trust me, as opposed
to the accusers, because I`m a businessman and I`ve been married to my wife
for 43 years. But it`s very clear there seems to be a pattern of behavior
here. But now some of the Republicans are starting to step up.
Senator Lisa Murkowski says she`s concerned about the allegations.
Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi says Cain needs to get all the facts
in front of the people.
I mean, are we going to see more Republicans publicly questioning Cain
at this point? And when does he start hurting the Republican brand in your
STEELE: I think to answer the second question first, I think that`s
already started. I think the fact that we`re taking up time on the show
tonight to talk about this, instead of what`s going on in Ohio, based on
the leadership that you`ve shown there and the grassroots movement that`s
been a part of the public debate since 2009 -- I think that says a lot
about where the state of the campaign is for the party right now.
It`s not talking about the economy and job creation, the
administration, war and peace issues, but, you know, 14-year-old
allegations on sexual misbehavior. So I hope that more Republicans will
step up and say, look, this has to get behind us, not for the sake of
Herman Cain, but for the sake of the country and the conversation and the
debate we need to have.
This has been adjudicated in some respects. Herman, just lay out the
facts and live or die by those facts on behalf of how people perceive it.
SCHULTZ: Well, it`s not he said/she said. It`s he said/they said at
SCHULTZ: And you`ve got -- it`s gone from an electronic media
lynching, that description, to Rick Perry`s fault, to now the Democratic
machine. I think the Republicans would probably do themselves well to
distance themselves at this point from Herman Cain in my opinion.
MSNBC analyst Michael Steele, thanks for your time tonight. Go ahead,
you got one more comment?
STEELE: I was going to say, I agree with that. I think that`s the
correct analysis here. We have to get beyond it. The discipline has been
broken. The party has a problem if this goes on.
SCHULTZ: All right. Michael, thanks for your time tonight. I
The latest results here in Ohio. Over 450,000 votes have been
counted. Yes on Issue 2 is at 36 percent. No on Issue 2 is at 64 percent.
Senate Bill 5 has made John Kasich one of the most unpopular governors
in the United States. And he still has three more years to go. State
Senator Nina Taylor will weigh in on Kasich`s future, next.
And we have a great crowd of middle classers here in Columbus, Ohio.
They get the final say tonight. Stay tuned. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW live from Columbus, Ohio. As we
await the results of the vote on Issue 2, almost a half a million votes
have been counted. Yes on Issue 2 is at 36 percent. No on Issue 2 is at
Governor John Kasich played it safe last night, talking to a few
hundred Tea Partiers at the Holiday Inn. He didn`t even mention Issue 2
until the last two minutes of his speech.
Whatever happens tonight, the battle over union rights has dealt a
huge blow to Kasich`s popularity. His approval rating is hovering just
over 30 percent. He`s the second most unpopular governor in the United
But Ohio is stuck with him for three more years because there is no
recall. So what`s Kasich`s next move?
We would love for the governor to come over here and sit down and talk
to the lovable me, Big Eddie, and let`s just talk about the future of Ohio.
Can we get that done? We`ve got this chair right here for you, John.
But we`re waiting for the governor. I`m not holding my breath. Let`s
bring in State Senator Nina Turner and Brian Hester, who is the managing
editor of PlunderBund Blog.
Great to have both of you with us.
Senator, I mean, if these numbers hold up tonight, and if it is a
resounding defeat, is it not somewhat of a mandate to the governor, don`t
ever overreach again? What do you think?
NINA TURNER (D), OHIO STATE SENATOR: Absolutely it`s a mandate. And
he should respect the wishes of the people. And the people of Ohio are
speaking loudly tonight, saying that they are standing up. Public sector
workers are heroes and heroes who bring it every single day on our
SCHULTZ: Will he politically change, in your opinion, if it`s a big
TURNER: I`m not sure, Ed. But it`s up to the people. It`s up to
everybody that`s here tonight, everybody that`s voted to make him keep the
commitment and uphold what the voters are voting on tonight, which is no.
You know, Ed, I am happy I got a chance to vote twice no on Senate
Bill 5. I did it on the floor of the Senate and I did it tonight.
SCHULTZ: It should be pointed out that that was a very close vote.
TURNER: It was.
SCHULTZ: That was a close vote. There were a lot of Republicans that
did not vote for it. In fact, I think --
SCHULTZ: Six that did not vote for it.
TURNER: That`s right.
SCHULTZ: Brian Hester, what would a loss mean for Governor Kasich
tonight? Politically, what would it do to him?
BRIAN HESTER, PLUNDERBUND.COM: This was a guy who was elected with 49
percent and thought he was elected with 100 percent. So it still remains
to be seen what Governor Kasich is going to learn by this.
But I will tell you this, Ed, I hope he enjoyed campaigning this year,
because the Republicans nationally next year are not going to want that guy
campaigning in Ohio.
SCHULTZ: Do you think he`ll change?
HESTER: It remains to be seen. What I`m being told right now from
sources in the statehouse is that Kasich is going to come out tonight and
ask labor to compromise on their victory tonight, which is -- which is kind
of like, you know, the Pittsburgh Steelers trying to compromise with the
Ravens that they won on Monday.
TURNER: I mean, Ed, the time to compromise was when they were ramming
that bill through the General Assembly. This is absolutely wrong. He
should stand up and apologize to the working class men and women in this
state for putting them through this foolishness.
An apology. An apology. I want an apology.
SCHULTZ: Well, that`s one thing that I think progressives have had a
hard time doing, and that`s demanding an apology.
TURNER: I`m demanding one tonight.
SCHULTZ: Is this somewhat of a political turning point for the state
as far as attitude goes?
SCHULTZ: We`ve seen, for instance, the White House do olive branch
after olive branch. Are you saying that there are no olive branches left,
that you`ve got to play your game?
TURNER: What I`m saying, Ed, tonight, is that he owes Ohioans an
apology for not working on the number-one issue, jobs. Apologize to the
men and women of this great state.
SCHULTZ: Ohio State Senator Nina Turner with us tonight and Brian
Hester. Thanks so much for joining us.
HESTER: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: The latest results. We now have seven percent -- we now
have seven percent of the precincts reporting. Yes on Issue 2 is at 37
percent. No on Issue 2 is at 63 percent.
Next, we`ll hear from the passionate folks out behind me tonight here
in the crowd in Columbus, Ohio. Stay with us. We`re right back on THE ED
SCHULTZ: The latest numbers here on Issue 2 in Ohio. With eight
percent of the precincts reporting, a yes vote on Issue 2 stands at 37
percent. A No on Issue 2 is at 63 percent.
These folks behind me spent months getting the word out on Issue 2.
and I`m going to visit with them when we come back and some more as you are
watching THE ED SHOW live from Columbus, Ohio. This is America`s middle
class at work.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. It`s election night in Ohio.
We`re coming to you live from Columbus. The latest results, we have now,
with eight percent of the precincts reporting, a Yes on Issue 2 is at 37
percent. The No vote stands at 63 percent. That is with eight percent of
I want to talk to some of the hardworking folks here who really got
the vote going.
Lee Saunders of AFSCME is with us tonight and also Tim Burga from the
AFL-CIO here in Ohio. I want to cut right to it. Can Republicans be
trusted with workers` rights? Does this night send a message?
LEE SAUNDERS, AFSCME: This night clearly sends a message. It sends a
message here in Ohio that working families, the middle class are fighting
back. We are making our voices heard like never before. This will carry
from Ohio across this country. We are back.
SCHULTZ: Do you think -- you know, Lee, when you look at the results
that are coming in, if they hold, it`s going to be a resounding victory for
workers in this state. Are you confident that Republicans would come back
and have a different attitude about negotiating anything when it comes to
SAUNDERS: I`m not confident at all. I think one of the things we
have to do, Ed -- we can enjoy tonight. We can celebrate tonight because
this is a huge victory.
But tomorrow morning, we`ve got to roll up our sleeves. We`ve got to
rededicate ourselves, recommit ourselves. We have to continue this battle.
We`ve got to continue this fight.
SCHULTZ: Tim, what about getting the vote out? I mean, have you ever
seen an effort like this before in Ohio?
TIM BURGA, OHIO AFL-CIO: Well, this has been a great coming together
all year long, ten-month struggle, in the legislature, the petition drive
and now the education and mobilization campaign to turn out the vote. I`m
so proud of the public sector unions that came together, the teachers, the
nurses, the firefighters, the police officers, the highway workers,
together with our industrial sector workers, our building and construction
Solidarity in the house of labor to turn this issue back and move Ohio
SCHULTZ: If I`ve got my numbers right, you`ve got 80 percent of union
membership in this country is in 16 states. Correct me if I`m wrong on
that. But that`s generally where it`s at. What would a night like this do
to workers who aren`t in organized labor that may be considering it? Is
this going to help you send the message to those that, you know what,
you`re out there fighting for these middle classers every day, every way?
BURGA: Tonight`s election is just the beginning, a beginning of a new
movement to fight for economic justice in all occupations and trades, and
move a working families movement forward for all Ohioans and main street
SCHULTZ: Tim Burga, Lee Saunders, great to have you with us tonight.
The results are coming in. Here`s the latest from the Ohio secretary
of state`s office. Over a half million votes have been counted. Yes on
Issue 2 stands at 37 percent. No on Issue 2, which is what these folks
want, is sitting at 63 percent.
Next, I`m talking with the crowd here in Columbus. They are fired up
and ready to go. You won`t want to miss it. We`re going to be back
tonight at 11:00 with a live show from Columbus as well. You`re watching
THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Tonight in our text survey, I asked if Senate Bill 5 is
repealed, will Republicans finally recognize the power of the middle class?
Thirty seven percent of you said yes; 63 percent of you said no.
We`ll hear from the great folks of Ohio when I come back. I want you
to know that this table was built by a union carpenter. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. We continue to monitor the
latest results from Ohio secretary of state`s office. Over half million
votes have been counted. Yes on Issue 2 still stands at 37 percent. No on
Issue 2 is at 63 percent.
The people of Ohio have been the heart and soul of this movement. And
this is really, I think, a benchmark moment in progressive politics in this
country, and also a very important moment for the middle class in this
Can middle class workers stand up against the corporate greed and the
outside influence to get their message across? We may have seen the
template on how to get that done tonight. It has really been amazing to be
on the streets of Columbus here the last couple of days and talk to the
folks and the enthusiasm.
You know, all they want is a fair shot at a good job. They want an
economy to work. They`re tired of the selfishness that has taken place in
I will tell you what, these people have been terribly unselfish with
their time to go talk to their neighbors and tell them what`s going on and
tell them what`s at stake when it comes to quality of life in the state of
Joining me right now is Jack Reall. Jack, great to have you with us
tonight. I do need a microphone to work with in this business.
JACK REALL, COLUMBUS FIREFIGHTERS UNION: It`s great to be here.
SCHULTZ: Jack, how are you feeling right now?
REALL: I`m feeling great. It looks like we`re going to have a
landslide victory here. I think the message is going to go to our
statehouse and statehouses across the country that you can`t mess with the
SCHULTZ: Is that`s what happened here?
REALL: It`s definitely been an attack on the middle class. I think -
- I hope the governor is listening. I hope the leadership is listening,
and they start working with us, rather than against us.
SCHULTZ: Jack, you`ve done great stuff. I appreciate it. Matt
Meister is with us, a Cleveland Heights public school teacher. What did
you guys ever do wrong?
MATT MEISTER, CLEVELAND HEIGHTS PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER: I have no idea
how we became --
SCHULTZ: Do you feel like you`ve been attacked?
MEISTER: Well, Jay Goulde was a railroad financier who once bragged
that he would get one-half of the working class to kill the other half of
the working class. John Kasich tried the same thing by a degree, but he
did the math wrong and we won`t be divided. We aren`t the enemy.
SCHULTZ: What is the conversation amongst teachers? When you get
together and you`re over a coffee on a Saturday morning, what are teachers
MEISTER: We`re overwhelmed by the audacity of this campaign against
us, against all public workers. But we won`t take it lying down. We`re in
the streets. We`re in the schools. We`re working with your children.
We`re doing really difficult work.
It`s largely thankless work. And we`re not going to stop regardless
of what happens with Senate Bill 5. We will not be made the victims. We
will not be made the enemies.
SCHULTZ: Jack, what does this mean for 2012?
REALL: I think you`re going to see a shift in the way our members
vote in 2012. We`re going to take over the state house again.
As a thank you from Columbus Firefighters Local 67 for helping us get
our message out, this is something that I think John Kasich will never get.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate that very much. You guys have been awesome.
Look at that. Huh? Does this make me an honorary firefighter?
REALL: Absolutely, brother. You`re welcome here any time.
SCHULTZ: I`m excited. Got my name right on there. Columbus
firefighters. All right.
Here`s where the vote is on Issue 2 currently standing. We`re 13
percent of the precincts reporting. Yes on Issue 2 is at 37 percent. No
on Issue 2 is at 63 percent.
You know what, this -- Governor Kasich, this is real good protective
gear. I`m ready for you, dude. That`s THE ED SHOW. I am going to be back
at 11:00 Eastern with the latest results from Ohio. I`m not leaving
Columbus until we get a call on this one. Rachel Maddow is next.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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