The Ed Show for Wednesday, November 9th, 2011
Read the transcript to the Wednesday 8p show
Guests: Eugene Robinson, Tim Wise; B.J. Schecter, Mike Papantonio, Bernie Sanders, Maxine Waters, Joe Watkins, Krystal Ball
ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight, live from Washington.
One of the biggest sports icons of the modern era, Penn State`s Joe
Paterno is retiring amid allegations that he did not do enough to stop the
alleged sexual abuse of boys by a former assistant coach. At this hour,
the scandal may result in the ousting of Penn State`s president and the
federal government has announced an investigation.
This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: When you get beaten, you have to admit
it, and you`ve got to congratulate and shake the hands of those folks who
SCHULTZ (voice-over): Common sense, liberal ideas prevailed in Ohio
and all across the country on Election Day.
Tonight, we`ll review the scoreboard with Vermont Senator Bernie
Sanders and California Congresswoman Maxine Waters.
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I tried to remember if I
recognized her and I didn`t.
SCHULTZ: The Herman Cain train continues to fly off the tracks.
SHARON BIALEK, CAIN ACCUSER: He acknowledged who I was and
acknowledged that he did, in fact, remember who I am.
SCHULTZ: Democratic strategist Krystal Ball and Republican strategist
Joe Watkins are here with the latest.
And tonight, there is breaking news in the Penn State sexual abuse
scandal. Eugene Robinson of "The Washington Post" on the moral failings in
And "Ring of Fire" radio host Mike Papantonio breaks down the legal
arguments against Joe Paterno.
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks.
Every college football fan across this country tonight is saying, how
in the world did this happen? Top Penn State University officials are
accused of failing to properly address decades of sexual abuse against
children, allegations that are just unbelievable.
Tonight, the fallout continues. The Penn State board of trustees held
an emergency meeting tonight, reportedly to decide the fate of at least two
university leaders. Legendary football coach Joe Paterno announced his
retirement today, effective at the end of the season. But "The New York
Times" reports that Penn State may still fire them.
In a statement, Paterno addressed the sexual abuse incident saying,
"With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."
Former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky was arrested Saturday on charges
of sexually abusing eight young boys. A ninth accuser has come forward.
Penn State President Graham Spanier may be removed as soon as tonight
by the board of trustees.
ESPN reports former Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge is being as
considered as Spanier`s replacement at the university.
To give you an idea of the stunned reaction to this story, here`s Matt
Millen, a former Penn State linebacker, and NFL-er and board member of
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SPORTSCENTER"/ESPN)
MATT MILLEN, FORMER PENN STATE PLAYER: We all have our own opinions.
I have some really strong opinions. I shared them with you this morning.
And to be honest with you, and you can probably hear it, and I apologize to
you, I get mad. And it`s -- it`s pretty disturbing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is. It`s a program that`s like family for
you, Matt. And I think we all understand that.
MILLEN: Yes, it just makes you sick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in MSNBC analyst Eugene Robinson, associate
editor and Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for "The Washington Post."
I think that reaction by Matt Millen pretty much sums it up for every
American out there, especially those who have been associated with Joe
Paterno and 45 years as the head coach of Penn State. How in the world did
EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: The winningest coach in
Division I. And when you read that grand jury report, you are literally
sickened. It is -- it is shocking, it is stunning, that this could happen
under the noses of this legend, of the sports world.
SCHULTZ: This man has been in education for decades. He has been a
model of integrity, a model of how to do this profession. He has been a
For Joe Paterno to possibly turn a blind eye and not do enough, where
does that leave us tonight, Gene?
ROBINSON: It leaves us confused, certainly disappointed,
disheartened. But, it leaves us -- at least leaves me hopeful that
there`ll be a reckoning here. There`s got to be a reckoning here.
I mean, there`s point in the grand jury report at which an assistant,
Mike McQueary, who was a quarterback for Joe Paterno and an assistant for
the football team, allegedly witnesses an episode of abuse in the Penn
State lockers, a boy, apparently 10, being abused, allegedly. And number
one, McQueary does nothing except the next day, he and his father having
decided to report it, he reports it to Paterno. He doesn`t stop it at the
moment, which is incredible to me.
But Paterno hears about it, he reports it up the chain of command,
apparently does nothing else. Makes no effort to find out about the boy,
about the boy who his trusted assistant saw or says he saw being molested.
SCHULTZ: As a football coach, there`s no greater source than one of
your recruits, one of your players, somebody who`s your graduate assistant
at the time, comes in and tells you this.
To say that this is an error in judgment on Joe Paterno`s part is far
understated. He did go to the university officials and report it, but he
let it sit there. He should have known something else should have come
down over this.
Where, in your opinion, is Joe Paterno on this tonight? Should he
step down for the integrity of the university?
ROBINSON: In my opinion, he should. He has announced that he is
resigning at the end of the season, this is his last season. Joe Paterno
has hung on to this job. He`s 84 years old.
Several years ago, this president, in fact, reportedly wanted to kind
of ease him out -- Paterno is the most powerful man on campus. He stayed
because he wanted to stay.
SCHULTZ: This isn`t about a coach. This isn`t about a player. This
is -- and you could talk about 409 wins. The number that counts tonight is
nine allegations, an eyewitness.
And the integrity of Penn State University is on the line right now,
and I`m sure those board of trustees are talking about that at this hour.
Gene, stay with us. We want to talk more about it.
Also joining us on the phone tonight is "Washington Post" sports
columnist, and WJFK radio host, Mike Wise.
Mike, good to have you with us tonight.
MIKE WISE, WASHINGTON POST (via telephone): Thanks, Ed.
SCHULTZ: What can you report to us? What do you know about the story
at this hour?
WISE: At this hour, the board of trustees are, in fact, meeting and I
believe -- I don`t know if the futures of President Graham Spanier and
Coach Joe Paterno will be decided tonight, but if they are, I would expect
a word within the next 24 to 48 hours at the most.
I cannot imaging Joe Paterno`s kids waiting to go into that stadium
Saturday, having no idea whether they`re coach is going on to the field
with them. So, I wouldn`t be surprised if that decision were made in the
next 24 hours.
SCHULTZ: Also joining us tonight is B.J. Schecter, executive sports
editor of SportsIllustrated.com.
B.J., it is not about Joe Paterno anymore. It`s about the integrity
of the university. What difference does it make if he coaches a few more
games? What do you think?
B.J. SCHECTER, EXEC. EDITOR, SI.COM: He shouldn`t -- he does not
deserve to be on the sideline for Saturday`s game. I think, you know, his
lack of action in this case, as you guys have been talking to, led to
further abuse to other kids. And that`s far greater than any football
game, that`s far greater than, you know, anything that he`s done for the
university to this date.
And he`s done a lot of good. But he needs to step aside or they need
to push him aside, because he does not belong out on that field.
This is -- you know, we talk about scandals in college sports and
there have been a lot of them in the last two years, this goes way beyond
that, because this is criminal. This makes cheating and paying players,
you know, look like peanuts.
This is little boys` lives that were affected. And there needs to be
some harsh measures taken. And the first thing that they need to do is
remove Joe Paterno. He can`t go out on his own terms like he wants to now.
He lost that privilege.
SCHULTZ: Yes, how could Joe Paterno have a defensive coordinator that
he had a long association with him, who helped him win two national
championships, when this story comes to Coach Paterno, how could he not
have a face-to-face conversation with the defensive coordinator, Jerry
Sandusky, and say, what is happening here?
And I want to know if he had that conversation, number one. And
secondly, why didn`t he do something about it? Did Sandusky deny it?
What do you think, Mike?
WISE: I spoke to a guy named Matt Pankas (ph). He was a graduate
assistant, 1987-`88. He found this also to be unbelievable because he said
to Joe Paterno reported to nobody at Penn State.
Joe -- the idea that somewhere there was a protocol or right channel
where Joe Pa would somehow be excused from his duty because of the
reporting protocol, that`s untrue. Most athletic directors in a big-time
program are underneath the football coach, in reality.
And also, the guy knew everything about every player, every coach on
that team. And he said he would be shocked if he didn`t know.
But I would say this. Anybody that`s had a family member abused,
anybody that`s had, you know, a clergy member abused, someone. I think
that you want to appeal to people`s best angels, and I think that you hate
to believe something about that.
The problem is that a kid`s life was at stake. And that`s where you
run into all kinds of conundrums.
SCHULTZ: Gentleman, I have to tell you, I`m shocked that Joe Paterno
isn`t taking himself out of the picture and saying, we`ve got other things
to take care of. This is much bigger than any football game or team. This
is about the integrity of the university.
I find it amazing that he didn`t confront Sandusky. That hasn`t been
reported yet. But -- I mean, I`m speculating. How in the world could a
football coach with that association with that man for so long have an
accusation put at him and then not address it face to face? Football
coaches don`t shy away from stuff like that.
And, B.J., how should the university respond? It would seem to me
that they`ve got some legal things that they`ve got to deal with right now.
SCHECTER: Absolutely. I mean, when you think -- you think they have,
you know, first of all, they have a moral obligation to do what`s right
because, over a number of years, 10-plus years, they didn`t do what was
right. That stems all the way from the school president, all the way down
to Joe Paterno.
And let`s -- you know, let`s call a spade a spade. Joe Paterno was
the most powerful --
SCHECTER: -- person in that university. And he didn`t do what was
needed to be done. They were all living in a bubble.
Joe -- anybody that`s been to Penn State knows, it`s all about Joe
Paterno there. Everybody bows down to him.
SCHULTZ: No doubt. And he`s a legend. He`s a godly figure there at
Penn State. No one has more power.
And he has an impeccable reputation, integrity in the coaching
But, Gene Robinson, I mean, you could make the case on the appearance
that Joe Paterno was protecting an alleged child abuser.
ROBINSON: That appearance has certainly been left. He needs -- he`s
going to have to clear this up. If he had a conversation, he`s got to
clear this up.
There was a 1998 incident in the showers with two 11-year-old boys
that was investigated by the university police. How could he not have
known about that investigation? How could he not have had that in mind
when the 2002 episode, where McQueary saw the boy being abused, allegedly,
I -- a big-time football coach is by definition a control freak. He
knew everything that was going on in that building, you have to suppose,
knew everybody. So, tell us! What`s the deal?
SCHULTZ: This man is a classy man. This man is about integrity.
This is just so out of character for Joe Paterno. This is part of his
WISE: Well -- go ahead.
SCHULTZ: Do you want to say it, Mike? Go ahead.
WISE: No, you know exactly where it is, but go ahead. I was going to
ask something after you were done.
SCHULTZ: Well, this is what he says, "At this moment, the board of
trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have
far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for
them as I possibly can."
Well, Joe, the best thing to do is to resign. That`s making it easy.
WISE: You`re exactly right.
SCHULTZ: That`s taking the issue out of the hands of the board of
WISE: -- allows him to take the field Sunday. I think what they`re
saying to Happy Valley, which is -- I can`t believe anybody calls it that
anymore, but anybody at Penn State, and sports society in general, that we
value giving a coach a sendoff more than we survivors of child abuse. And
I think that`s what people have to remember.
This is -- this story has somehow morphed into Joe Pa staying or
going. You`re right. It`s not about. It`s about kids who lost their
And, you know, if you`re more into seeing your date than stolen youth,
that says everything about you and your university, and it sure as hell
says a lot about us as a society.
SCHULTZ: Mike Wise, B.J. Schecter, Eugene Robinson, great to have you
with us tonight. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much.
Coming up, Penn State sexual abuse scandal has big legal implications,
and for more than just two officials already charged. Mike Papantonio
joins me next.
And later, Democrats won big all over America last night. Senator
Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Maxine Waters will be here to tell us what
it means if anything for 2012.
You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: More to come on THE ED SHOW tonight. Mike Papantonio joins
me next to talk about the legal implications coming out of the sexual abuse
scandal at Penn State.
Later, Democrats came out strong last night and took down radical
right policies in Ohio, Mississippi, and other states. Senator Bernie
Sanders and California Congresswoman Maxine Waters join me to talk about
keeping the momentum going into the election year.
And two of Herman Cain`s accusers are planning a joint press
conference. And since Cain is staying in the presidential race,
conservatives want his chief of staff out.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.
Failing to report possible child abuse to police is a crime. And two
Penn State officials have been charged. The actual law is complicated, but
it still raises questions about why other Penn State officials haven`t been
charged with a failure to report.
Penn State football coach Joe Paterno is at the center of it. In
2002, when he was informed of Jerry Sandusky`s alleged sexual abuse of a
10-year-old child, Paterno turned it over to two other officials, Athletic
Director Tim Curley and Vice President Gary Schultz.
But when those two men didn`t report the incident, did Paterno have a
duty to follow up and do it himself?
There are allegedly nine child abuse incidents involving Jerry
Sandusky. In at least three of those incidents, various Penn State
officials were informed of possible child abuse. Up to seven other Penn
State employees or officials may have known about child abuse without
reporting it to the proper authorities.
What does this all mean legally?
Let`s bring "Ring of Fire" radio host and attorney, Mike Papantonio.
Mike, good to have you with us tonight. Highly unusual story for us
to be talking about this. There`s nothing else like it.
Let`s focus on the 2002 incident, which Joe Paterno was informed. He
turned it over to school officials, two of them, Curley and Schultz, but
they didn`t report it to authorities.
Did Paterno -- did he do enough legally? Sort this out for us, Mike.
MIKE PAPANTONIO, HOST, "RING OF FIRE": Ed, there are certain
statutory laws that require people in certain positions, that they have to
go directly to the police. For example, you`ll see statutes that say
teachers or -- schoolteachers or doctors or nurses, once they learn about
sexual abuse incident, they`re required to go directly to the police.
Then it gets a little fuzzy beyond that, because at some point, the
requirement is that the person has to report to the person up on the chain
of command, and it`s expected that person has to report to police. A
supervisor, for example, may have this responsibility to say, Joe told me
that and I have to go do something about it.
Look, here, Paterno was clearly told that Sandusky was -- he was
raping a 10-year-old boy in a locker room shower. There`s no other way to
The person who reported it, Ed, went to Joe Paterno`s house and told
him that. And then Joe Paterno says, well, look, I did what I was supposed
to do. I reported it to the athletic director.
And you know what, Ed? He never asked another question about it.
Now, I`ve got to --
SCHULTZ: See, Mike, I got to tell you -- I just don`t think that
flies for Paterno if that`s the way it comes down. This is a man who is in
a leadership position. He is in a serious position of responsibility at
There isn`t anymore greater authority outside the president of the
university than Joe Paterno and it`s been that way for decades. How in the
world could he stand there idle and not follow up on this? What`s his
PAPANTONIO: You`re right. Look, here it is. Look, is it callous,
reckless indifference? Is it disgusting to us that a man in his position
would allow this to go on and not ask a question about it? Not even ask
another question about it.
First of all, it`s not believable that he didn`t ask a question about
it, but if he didn`t, it`s pretty disgusting. But, I`ve got to tell you,
fortunately, for Joe Paterno, the chances of him being charged with a
felony are slight.
Here`s the real problem. In 1998, the police go -- the police were
told of another incident just like this. And you know what, you know what?
They were told -- the campus security was told the same thing.
As a matter of fact, the mother was on the telephone with the police.
The police were listening to Sandusky actually admit that he had raped
another child in the showers. The campus police knew nothing about it.
The local police knew nothing about it.
And so, this story -- this story widens. Let me just tell you, it may
not go -- it may not get Joe Paterno, but those board of directors who are
meeting tonight, they sure better be asking themselves, how wide is this
net? Because, in fact, you can`t -- the things that come to my mind right
off the bat are interference with a criminal investigation, a conspiracy to
interfere with that criminal investigation, or how about an accomplice
after the fact where you have done nothing?
And beyond that, Ed, you think about the civil case here, the civil
case is a monster. It will make what happened in the Catholic Church look
like nothing happened.
SCHULTZ: Well, another thing is, did anyone on the board of trustees
know about this? How could something like this take place, go up to the
president, and yet no one on the board of trustees knew about it? I mean,
I don`t know how you can go down this road without having a thorough
investigation. Who knew, when did they know it, and why or why not did
they do something about it?
I mean, so it would seem to me that Penn State has got a lot of legal
questions to answer tonight.
PAPANTONIO: It`s worse than that, Ed. Penn State knew about it.
Penn State actually went to an investigating officer all the way back in
1998 and asked the investigating officer to drop the investigation.
This board of directors, this board of trustees had better understand,
this is not over at all. Simply, look, when you read -- when you read the
finding of facts of this case, and you see the possibilities of who could
be involved in a wider change of indictments, you start understanding, this
is not just about Joe Paterno here.
SCHULTZ: All right. All right. Mike, for just a moment -- put
yourself in the position of representing one of the families of the
victims. I mean, it`s gut-wrenching to think about that. But take us down
that road for a moment.
PAPANTONIO: Well, here it is. Here it is. First of all, the
university is on the hook here.
Look, it is a lock case. There is no way you can bring a case against
this university with -- their involvement has been endless.
The security at the university was involved, the -- you had
supervisors involved, where they didn`t just ignore it, Ed, they
intentionally went out and tried to make it disappear. So, from 1998 to
this day, 2011, you had children victimized by a predator, by a sick
And Joe Paterno knew about it. And you know what? He shouldn`t be
given the possibility of resigning. The man should be fired.
You`re only as good as your last game, Ed, and his last game is
disgusting. Look, we all want heroes in our lives. We all want to say, we
want to imagine the heroes and we want to create myths behind the heroes.
But we have to be honest when we find out that the myth isn`t true. ?
And truth is, we know in 2011 that he was told by someone who saw it with
their own eyes, a 10-year-old being raped in the shower by Paterno`s best
friend and Paterno does nothing about it.
Let me just tell you something. This university, they better call
their insurance company and say, you better pony up to the table on this
one, because it`s a big, big case.
And the state of Pennsylvania as well. I mean, it could be very wide-
Mike Papantonio, thanks for your insight and expertise on this
tonight. I appreciate it. It is just a blockbuster story and it`s
Voters have rejected the heavy-handed anti-worker Republican agenda in
many states in the nation. Congresswoman Maxine Waters will weigh in.
What does it mean?
Up next, Tea Party Congressman Joe Walsh channels one of our "Psycho
Talk" all-stars. He completely loses it during a meeting with
constituents. Joe, you`re going in the zone.
SCHULTZ: And in "Psycho Talk" tonight, Republicans have a new
technique of talking to constituents. It`s called meet and scream. You`ve
heard of meet and greet, this is meet and scream. Illinois Congressman Joe
Walsh tried it out recently. A few days after receiving a pro-family award
from the Family Research Council, the stress of owing more than $100,000 to
his own family in child support might be catching up, getting to the
congressman. Walsh got a little testy with his constituents when they
complained about the power of the big banks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The big banks, they go back into the banks and
they just keep rotating --
WALSH: I agree with you about that. That`s not the problem! It`s
not the private marketplace that created this mess! What created this mess
is your government. Don`t blame banks and don`t blame the marketplace for
the mess we`re in right now! I am tired of hearing that crap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Don`t blame the banks. Walsh is getting all worked up in
defense of the one-percenters. And his rage didn`t end there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: I am tired of hearing that crap.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taking money from people who know they couldn`t
WALSH: There are already mechanisms in place --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t have to --
WALSH: This just pisses me off. Too many people don`t listen. Do
you want more regulation? Is that what you want? Do you want Dodd-Frank?
Is that what you want?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang on.
WALSH: Quiet for a minute!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did I say --
WALSH: Quiet for a minute or I`m going to ask you to leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joe Walsh already has an excuse for his screaming fit. He
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: I made the mistake of doing this on a very empty stomach with
a little too much coffee, which sort of got me a little too fired up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: A little too the fired up? Buddy, your attitude was more
along the lines of this classic outburst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get off my phone you little pinhead! Get off my
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joe, you`re in good company with one of the biggest psycho
talkers of all time. Screaming at constituents in defense of the banking
industry is deadbeat psycho talk.
Still ahead, the middle class spoke up against the hard right-wing
policies put out by some governors and put up some big victories across the
country. Senator Bernie Sanders reacts. He`s been talking about all of
this for a long time.
And the RNC chair, well, they`re spinning hard after Republicans lost
big last night. Stay tuned.
SCHULTZ: All right, let`s talk about what happened last night around
the country. First of all, don`t let anyone lie to you. America is not a
center right country. The Tea Party is not the driving force in American
politics. That was proven last night. And the middle class is not the
problem for our budgets in America.
Last night commonsense liberal ideas won out over right-wing lies and
the garbage that has been shoved down America`s throat. A radical, and I
mean radical, personhood bill was defeated deep in the heart of Dixie last
night in Mississippi. It doesn`t get any further south than that.
The Arizona Senate president, Russell Pearce, the Republican brain
behind Arizona`s un-American immigration law, what happened to him? He was
recalled. He`s out. In Michigan, Republican Paul Scott, chair of the
state`s House education committee, was recalled after he voted to cut
education funding. Scott also supported stripping collective bargaining
for schoolteachers. That went down.
In Iowa, Democrats retained control of the state Senate. This was a
big fight when former television anchor Liz Mathis beat her Republican
opponent by a 56-44 margin.
And in Maine the middle class defeated a Republican effort to restrict
voters` rights, same-day registration. They beat it back in Maine.
And over in New Jersey, the coattails of the big guy, well, it didn`t
help any of the Republicans he endorsed last night. They all lost. In
Mitch McConnell`s state of Kentucky, Democrats won big. Democratic
governor Steve Beshear trounced his Republican opponent to win re-election.
Speaker Boehner and Governor John Kasich are crying in their beer
after Ohio voters killed the most anti-union bill in America, an overreach,
to say the least. Arizona, Michigan, Iowa, Maine, New Jersey, and Ohio all
have radical right-wing Republican governors who have absolutely attacked
workers to balance their budgets. Middle class voters who were asleep at
the switch maybe in 2010 or the midterm, guess what, they`re awake now in
The question is, will the Democrats recognize that the tide`s coming
in on a possible sea change in America? Can they keep the momentum going?
Joining me now is senator Bernie Sanders, Independent from Vermont.
Senator, great to have you with us tonight.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Good to be with you.
SCHULTZ: Look, we`ve got different pockets of the country with some
crucial issues, Traditional conservative values that were voted down huge.
What`s it say to the Democrats?
SANDERS: Well, I`ll tell you, Ed, in my view, what happened in Ohio
last night was the most significant political victory for working class
America that I have seen in many, many years. If I were Republican, I
would be extremely nervous.
What did last night say? It said that when the working class and the
middle class stand together and fight for their economic rights, you know
what, there`s no stopping them. That is the vast majority of the American
people, and they will win every single time.
So the Republicans are nervous. The question is whether Democrats
snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. The issue here is if you stand
on issues that ordinary people feel strongly about, you can win and do the
right thing for public policy. Some examples. Democrats need to be loud
and clear to the American people we will not cut Social Security, Medicare,
and Medicaid. And you know what overwhelming numbers of people will say?
Thank you, Democratic Party.
SCHULTZ: You look at the polls going into last night`s Senate Bill
five. Issue two, they wanted a no vote. The polling was very clear.
That`s the way it turned out, over 60 percent. The polls are showing to
the super committee, don`t mess with Medicare and Medicaid and Social
Security. The question is, are they going to get the message? But to the
Democrats, it seems to me in 2012 you stand with workers, you can`t lose.
Do they get it?
SANDERS: I wish I could tell you that they do. Some certainly do.
We got some great senators there who understand it, who are fighting the
right fights. On the other hand, there are people who are tone deaf and
there are people who are more interested in corporate donations than in the
needs of working --
SCHULTZ: But if you look at the party platform of the Democrats,
that`s what they were voting on last night in many of these states.
SANDERS: You go it, Ed. Look, if the Democrats say, do nothing more,
in my view, than what the American people want. What do they say? They
don`t want cuts in Social Security, they don`t want cuts in Medicare. What
else do they want? They want to move us towards a balanced budget with a
deficit reduction by what? Asking the wealthiest people in this country to
start paying their fair share in taxes, and all these outrageous loopholes,
take a hard look at military spending. Maybe if the Democrats do what the
American people want, they can win. And not only win, they can win very
SCHULTZ: Listen to what Governor John Kasich in Ohio had to say last
night after defeat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) OHIO: The people have spoken clearly. You
don`t ignore the public. I also have an obligation to lead. I`ve been
leading since the day I took this office, and I`ll continue to do that.
But part of leading is to listening and hearing what people have to say to
SCHULTZ: "Don`t ignore the people." That`s exactly what the
Republicans have been doing. They`ve been on the wrong side of every
survey that`s been out there. Do you think this would possibly change some
heads in Washington, some thinking on the Republican side?
SANDERS: I hope so, and in fact, I think that may very well happen.
As you`ve just indicated, every single poll out there shows that the
Republican leadership is literally a fringe group. They are way out of
touch with the American people. You go out and you ask people, gee, do you
think we should give tax breaks to billionaires and cut Social Security?
What do you think, 10, 15 percent?
So the Democrats have got to stand up, be very clear for a change,
about what they believe. And that is, they`re prepared to stand with
working families, take on big money.
SCHULTZ: And this gives President Obama, I think, a roadmap to
victory in 2012. You agree with that?
SCHULTZ: I think it does. Vermont senator Bernie Sanders, great to
have you with us. You are the best.
SANDERS: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, voters smack down the Republican overreach last
night. I`ll ask Congresswoman Maxine Waters, how did Democrats carry the
momentum in the House in 2012? That is next. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: And the big results last night, you can only read it this
way. Democrats won big last evening from Mississippi to Maine, and Ohio
workers were right in the center of it all. And with the White House is
really joining in the celebration for the middle class victory. President
Obama`s press secretary released the following statement, "The president
congratulates the people of Ohio for standing up for workers and defeating
efforts to strip away collective bargaining rights and commends the
teachers, firefighters, nurses, police officers, and other workers who took
a stand to defend those rights."
Vice President Joe Biden weighed in as well, saying, "Ohio has sent a
loud and clear message that will be heard all across the country -- the
middle class will no longer be trampled on." I hope that`s true.
The next step for Democrats is to take the momentum of last night`s
victories and use it coming up in 2012. Can they do it? Will they do it?
Joining me now is Congresswoman Maxine Waters of California.
Congresswoman, great to have you with us tonight.
REP. MAXINE WATERS, (D) CALIFORNIA: Thank you!
SCHULTZ: I think we`re seeing the tide coming in on the sea change.
I don`t know how else we can look at it. But what better road map could
the Democrats have on what they have to do and what banner they must carry
in 2012? Your thoughts -- where does it go from here?
WATERS: Well, I think you have characterized it correctly. It`s a
road map. And it gives us the direction that we should go in order to win
in 2012. And I think that people have been very clear in what they think
about some of this public policy that has oftentimes been distorted by the
As you said, as you look at Arizona and Mississippi and Ohio, not only
did the people say we respect the right of workers to bargain, that
organized labor worked very hard. A lot of sacrifices have been made.
People died for the right to be protected in the workplace. And so that
was very clear.
Mississippi, one of the most conservative states in the union, spoke
up for women and said you will not criminalize abortion, that this
personhood amendment goes way too far, and it was defeated. And so I am
just so elated and very pleased that it truly is a roadmap. For Democrats,
we should take it and run, and we should be victorious in 2012 every seat
that we go after, yes.
SCHULTZ: Take it and run is what it`s all about. Here`s the bottom
line, as I see it. You`ve had some radical governors out there on the
Republican side who just recently got elected in 2010 that have decided to
balance the budget on the backs of the middle class and the backs of
workers. Doesn`t this set the table for the Democrats to come right back
and say, OK, the people have spoken. Now let`s make sure that the Bush tax
cuts expire and let`s make sure that we go back to that 39 percent tax rate
for the wealthiest Americans. What do you think of that?
WATERS: I absolutely think that is true. And this super committee
that we have in the Congress right now as a result of the negotiations that
went on in raising the debt ceiling should get this message. And they
should resist all attempts by the right wing and the Republicans and the
Tea Party to try and again tax the middle class and not doing anything
about that one percent that is --
SCHULTZ: I got to ask you, you make a great point there, but where is
the Tea Party today? I mean, are they politically insignificant all of a
sudden? Are they just taking a nap right now? Did they not get involved
in all of these votes? The Tea Party took a whipping last night, big-time.
They took a loss at the polls, huge.
WATERS: They took a beating. They absolutely took a beating. And it
was very interesting to watch Governor Kasich say, I was wrong. That the
people have spoken. And while I have offered leadership, I understand what
the people are saying. I thought that was very interesting, and hopefully
that will send a message to the Republicans and to the right wing that the
people have spoken, and they don`t intend to have their rights just given
away or taken away by anybody.
SCHULTZ: Well, I got a little advice for all of those folks that live
in states where there are radical governors who are tried to overreach.
Bottom line here is you can`t trust Republicans. They have obstructed so
much in Washington. You can`t trust these Republican governors. And don`t
make the same mistake twice, folks. I guarantee you, they may be talking
the good game after the loss, but they`re going to get right back to work
and they`re going to go right back after the middle class again, and
they`re not going to come forward with any job proposals whatsoever because
it`s in their DNA not to do it, because it would help the Democrats. And
they know, really, it`s about power. It`s not about being on the correct
side of the issues with the people.
Congresswoman Maxine Waters, great to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate your time. Thank you.
WATERS: Thank you so very much.
SCHULTZ: You bet.
Coming up, more trouble for Herman Cain. Two of his alleged victims
will hold a joint news conference. We`re all waiting for that. Stay
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Things are not looking good
for Herman Cain. Two of the women accusing Cain of sexual misconduct will
appear together at a joint news conference. The attorney for Karen
Kraushaar says that his client along with Sharon Bialek will join together
to discuss the specifics of their complaints against the GOP front-runner.
Bialek was the first woman to go public. Kraushaar was then outed by
Rupert Murdoch`s online newspaper "The Daily." Kraushaar`s attorney says
an attempt is to being made to get a third Cain accuser to come forward as
well. Meanwhile right-wing bloggers and Cain`s staffers are calling for
Cain`s chief of staff, Mark Block, to resign. They say Block has botched
the campaign`s handling of the scandal. Last night Mr. Block went on FOX
and pointed the finger yet again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK BLOCK, HERMAN CAIN`S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: At the press conference,
it was brought up that the -- that Karen Kraushaar had come out as one of
the women, so we come to find out that her son works at "Politico," the
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you confirmed that? I`ve been hearing that
all day, rumors about that. You`ve confirmed that, right?
BLOCK: We confirmed it with that he, does, indeed, work at "Politico"
and that`s his mother, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Block seemed to be referring to "National Journal" reporter,
Josh Kraushaar. He told "The Hill" newspaper, quote, "I am not related in
any way to Karen and I haven`t worked at "Politico" since June of 2010."
And at this hour, another setback for Herman Cain. The American
mustache institution is rescinding its endorsement of the Republican front-
Let`s bring in Krystal Ball, Democratic strategist and former
candidate for Congress, and Joe Watkins, Republican strategist. Well, here
we go. Joe, should Cain`s chief of staff resign? What do you think?
JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I would have handled the
whole thing differently, Ed. What I would have done is, I would have
realized that Herman Cain, like you and a lot of other people who are in
the public eye, has met tens of thousands of people as a public figure over
the last 25 years, and it`s very likely that over the course of that time
he`s probably offended some people with things he`s said or people have
taken offense at things he`s said and done.
And so if I were the campaign manager, I would have told Herman Cain
to say, you know what, I`m really sorry. I`ve met tens of thousands of
people and along the way I have may have offended some folks. If I`ve
offended you or done things that are unseemly, I want to apologize now.
SCHULTZ: Isn`t that a conditional apology, though? When you cross
the line, you cross the line. Whether we`re in public life or not, does it
matter? The fact is this man wants to be president of the United States,
and now he has got two people who are willing to jointly hold a press
conference and tell the American people this guy is a liar. Krystal Ball,
what do you think?
KRYSTAL BALL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, absolutely. I mean, this
goes way further than a little misunderstanding, or maybe they didn`t
understand my humor. I agree with Joe, he should have come out at the
beginning. They knew this was coming. He knew these settlements were out
there. He had briefed his staff when he ran for Senate in 2004. He should
have come out from the beginning and said, you know what, I`m sorry. That
would be the only way to help kill this story. It`s been going on for
weeks and weeks and it`s nowhere near the end.
SCHULTZ: Krystal, what impact would a joint press conference have on
BALL: It just continues the narrative. This is really devastating
Here`s the thing, Ed. Herman Cain is not going to be the GOP nominee.
Every day that this is in the news, this undercuts the Republican Party.
This hurts them with women. This keeps the focus off of the economy, which
is where they want it.
SCHULTZ: What about that, Joe? Does it hurt the Republican party
WATKINS: I think it just hurts, it takes away from -- it`s a
distraction, an unfortunate distraction that takes away from the real
issue, which is, how do we get 14 million Americans who aren`t working back
to work? And who among these candidates have the solution to that?
SCHULTZ: I don`t mean to interrupt you, Joe, but he is so damaged as
a candidate right now, how can he go talk about unemployment? How can he
talk about job creation? He`s got so much swirling around him right now,
he`s got to people who want to come out and say he`s a liar. How does he
get passed that?
WATKINS: I don`t think he`s that damaged. I think that this is a
blow and a serious blow, and you should always take sexual charges and
allegations of sexual harassment seriously, but I don`t think it`s a
damaging blow or even a death blow. I said the other day on the show that
candidate Clinton handled the same challenge back in 1992 when a press
conference was held about him and some of the things that he had done, and
he handled it very, very well. And as a result, he ended up being the
nominee and he won the election and became the president of the United
BALL: We`re not even talking about sexual harassment here. These
allegations are about sexual assault. I`m not interested in defending
anyone, Democrat, Anthony Weiner, John Edwards democrat, whatever. I`m not
interested in defending them. These charges are serious. And it is a
distraction from important issues facing the country, but sexual harassment
is a very, very serious and common issue that needs to be addressed.
WATKINS: I agree. I agree.
SCHULTZ: Well, it`s going to get doubly tough on him if you`ve got a
couple of people who are willing to come out. And who knows, there may be
Krystal Ball and Joe Watkins, thanks for your time tonight. I think
Herman Cain needs to do the right thing and step out.
That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. The Rachel Maddow show starts
right now. Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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