updated 11/22/2011 9:55:22 AM ET 2011-11-22T14:55:22

Guests: David Buscho, Nathan Brown, Jesse LaGreca, Sen. Bernie Sanders,
Joan Walsh


ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

The so-called super committee has been sabotaged by Republicans.
President Obama weighed in late this afternoon. Bernie Sanders will be
here to react in a moment.

Americans are shocked after watching campus police officers pepper
spray a group of students. One of the students is here tonight to talk
about it.

I was in Wisconsin over the weekend for the recall rally. We`ve got
exclusive video.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re shooting us for sitting here? That`s fine.
That`s fine.

(SCREAMING)

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Students were attacked, policemen have been
suspended. And the U.C.-Davis chancellor today addressed the masses.

LINDA KATEHI, U.C.-DAVIS CHANCELLOR: I really feel horrible for what
happened on Friday.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, we`ll talk to a student who took a face full of
pepper spray and a professor who says the chancellor needs to go.

Also tonight, Occupy Wall Street protester Jesse LaGreca and how these
pictures resonate around the country.

The super committee failed, and that`s a good thing for middle
classers.

Senator Bernie Sanders is here with analysis.

And this weekend, I was in Wisconsin where the Walker recall effort is
in full throes. Tonight, volunteers to recall Walker are getting death
threats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said, if you`d don`t stop circulating the
recall petitions, we will kill you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, a full report from Wisconsin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. People across the
country want to know why this happened. A peaceful student protest at the
University of California at Davis was broken up Friday like this.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

SCHULTZ: Students were sprayed with pepper spray at pointblank range
by campus police. Eleven students were treated for injuries related to the
spraying. Two were hospitalized. Some students say that they were sprayed
directly in their mouths when they tried to cover their faces. Others were
coughing up blood and one reported nerve damage in his wrist.

Most people are directing their outrage at this man, Lieutenant John
Pike of the U.C.-Davis police department. One student says Pike told him,
"Move or we will shoot you," before loading with the pepper spray in their
faces. His actions were caught on tape by dozens of onlookers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!
Shame o you!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want your name. I want his name. Pike! Pike!
J. Pike!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In response, Lieutenant Pike has been placed on
administrative leave. So has another officer who also sprayed protesters,
the police department has declined to identify that officer.

Today, U.C.-Davis police chief, Annette Spicuzza, was put on leave by
the chancellor of the university, Linda Katehi. Katehi made the call on
Friday for the police to remove the student protesters from the quad.
Thousands have signed a position for Katehi to resign. But so far, she has
refused.

In response, students silently protested the chancellor on Saturday
night as he walked from a press conference to her car.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

SCHULTZ: The power of their silence is stunning, isn`t it?

Katehi agreed to speak with students today. They held a solidarity
rally on campus with faculty members. Katehi offered brief remarks to the
crowd. She was regretful, but she did not step down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATEHI: I`m here to apologize. I really feel horrible for what
happened on Friday. If you think you don`t want to be students in a
university like we had on Friday, I`m just telling you -- I do not want to
be the chancellor of the university we had on Friday. So I hope that I
will have a better opportunity to work with you, to meet you, to get to
know you. And there will be many opportunities in the next few weeks to do
that. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I want to know if the students who were pepper sprayed
accept her apology. I`ll ask one of them in just a moment.

I also want to know if she thinks her campus is a safer place today
than it was when those students were staging a peaceful protest on Friday.

We wanted to pose these questions to the chancellor in person, and
yesterday she agree to come on this show tonight, THE ED SHOW. Late this
afternoon, she canceled.

If the chancellor believes that she still should be the leader of
U.C.-Davis, she should answer, I think, these questions in public. And so
should the police officers.

I think the public needs to see the manual that those police officers
were operating from. It is horrible. Unjustified. It was a peaceful
protest.

And there was no reason for that officer to take it as if he was
spraying his flowers in his backyard. Got to get rid of some of the bugs
here.

Who told him to do that? Now, the best remedy, I think, is for these
police officers to hold a press conference, to show some guts. It`s easy
to spray kids when they`re down and defenseless, but why don`t they hold a
press conference and say to the American people, this is why we pepper
sprayed these college kids. They won`t do it.

But, of course, they`ve been put on administrative leave and that
makes us all feel a hell of a lot better.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: Is there any way reason to pepper spray
defenseless protesters? Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. And
you can always go to our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results
later on in the show.

Let`s turn now to David Buscho, a student at U.C. Davis who was pepper
sprayed by the police at the protest.

David, good to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your time.

DAVID BUSCHO, UC DAVIS STUDENT: It`s good to be here -- all things
considered.

SCHULTZ: You bet. Describe the moment when you were sprayed by the
police officer. What happened?

BUSCHO: OK. So about a dozen of my friends sat on the sidewalk as a
symbolic gesture and started chanting with the rest of the protesters. It
was in the middle of an open field. The police officers were able to walk
around us. On numerous occasions they were able to walk over us.

But I think that the police officer that appeared to be in charge of
the riot police saw that as an attack on his ego, a personal attack. And
obviously we were completely peaceful, we just locked arms. We never
touched any of the police officers. And so, he came up to my friend and
said, "If you don`t move, I`ll shoot you." And my friend responded, "I`m
just sitting here, I`m just sitting here."

And then I`m told, at this point, he walked behind the police
officers. They were holding paintball guns at pointblank range at our
heads and said, "Don`t worry, guys, I`ll just spray them down" -- at which
point he shook up the can of pepper spray, held it in the air for all the
crowd to see, and spray painted us down in the face three times.

The first time I was hit, I was immediately blinded. It felt like
there was white hot sand in my eyes. I couldn`t -- I wanted to open my
eyes because the pain was so intense but I had to force my eyes closed. I
was literally suffocating because it hurt so badly to breathe because my
face was covered in pepper spray.

SCHULTZ: David, I go to ask -- were you threatening at all to the law
enforcement officials on the scene?

BUSCHO: No. In no way we were threatening to the police officers.
We were sitting down. They walked past us. They walked over us on
numerous occasions.

We didn`t impede what they were trying to do in any way other than by
sitting down. We were just sitting there chanting and singing songs.

At this point, there was -- we had started -- we set up camps the
night before and spent the night. At this point, those camps were taken
down. We were a bunch of kids standing around singing.

SCHULTZ: Do you accept the chancellor`s apology?

BUSCHO: I`ll accept her apology when she resigns and joins our
movement.

SCHULTZ: You want her to resign? That`s what you want her to do.

BUSCHO: I personally want her to resign. I started a petition on
Change.org. Over 70,000 people want her to resign.

I -- my friends and I who are victims of this incident managed to
track her down on Saturday and we have her on video saying, I don`t plan on
resigning unless somebody says I did anything wrong. And 70,000 people
said you did something wrong. It`s the faculty association.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Do you have anything to say to the lieutenant? I
understand it was Lieutenant Pike who sprayed you down. Do you have
anything to say to him?

BUSCHO: I don`t know. He was an officer of the law, and my
stepfather is a police officer, and I do have the utmost respect for police
officers. I guess I wish I could have a conversation with him about why he
did it.

SCHULTZ: For him to go on administrative leave, for him to be placed
on administrative leave, is that enough right now do you think?

BUSCHO: He`s on paid administrative leave, that`s right?

SCHULTZ: Yes.

BUSCHO: The rumor I heard. I don`t think that`s enough. I think
there needs to be a very serious inquiry. I think that there needs to be a
serious psychological analysis of this police officer.

But I`d like to emphasize that it wasn`t really the police officers`
faults in the sense that Chancellor Katehi ordered the riot police to take
over our encampment. Given the events that happened across the U.C.
campuses that week, she had to consider the possibility of police
brutality. There`s no way she didn`t consider and accept the possibility
of police brutality.

SCHULTZ: David Buscho, I appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so
much for joining us. We`ll continue to follow the story.

Now, let`s turn to Nathan Brown, an English professor at the
university.

Mr. Brown, good to you with us.

You`ve called on the chancellor to resign. Are you upset that she
hasn`t?

NATHAN BROWN, UC DAVIS PROFESSOR: Well, I think that she should.

SCHULTZ: Why should she resign?

BROWN: Because I think that what we`re facing here is not just an
issue related to one rogue police chief or one rogue police officer, but
rather a systematic by senior administrators in the U.C. system of police
brutality to terrorize student and faculty protesters, to repress free
speech and to repress the right for peaceful assembly.

SCHULTZ: We saw the video of the students silently protesting the
chancellor. Are you proud of your students?

BROWN: Those are not all my students, but they`re all students at
U.C. Davis and perhaps from other campuses as well. I`m tremendously proud
of their action that night. I think the most impressive thing that has
come out of this sequence has been the evidence of the incredible
collective political intelligence on this campus.

And those students are my heroes. They are a tremendous inspiration
to me.

SCHULTZ: How is it possible for a campus situation to escalate like
this? You`re now in the midst of a national story.

BROWN: Well, we`ve been seeing this for two years, in fact. This is
what we saw in the fall of 2009 when students occupied a building at U.C.
Berkeley. Massive riot police forces were called in and they beat students
on the ground with their batons. The chancellor in that incident,
Chancellor Burginoe (ph) at U.C. Berkeley did the same thing that
Chancellor Katehi is doing right now. He called for an investigation.

This is a classic script that people in power follow whenever there`s
an instance of police brutality. They call for an investigation. They put
officers on paid administrative leave. And these are simply transparent
methods of deferring and displacing criticism.

SCHULTZ: So, you`ve seen this movie before, Professor?

BROWN: That`s correct. Yes. As I`ve been saying, there`s a
systematic use of police brutality on the U.C. campuses to terrorize
students and faculty who protest tuition increases.

SCHULTZ: And how big a problem is the tuition increases in the U.C.
system?

BROWN: It is a huge problem. In 2005, tuition was around $6,000.
Tuition is currently around $13,000. And now, the president of the U.C.
system, Mark Yudof, has proposed an 81 percent fee increase over the next
four years and raise tuition to around $23,000.

So, what we see is students standing up saying I can`t pay that much
money, I refuse to pay that much money, I refuse to go further in debt.
And when the students do stand up and say that, they are beaten, they are
hospitalized and they are arrested by the police. It`s a completely
unacceptable state of affairs.

SCHULTZ: Professor Nathan Brown, thanks for your time tonight here on
THE ED SHOW -- I appreciate you helping us with the story.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what you
think about this story.

Coming up, how do the events at U.C. affect the Occupy movement at
large? Activist Jesse LaGreca joins me, next.

And the supercommittee fails to reach a deal and President Obama says
it`s because Republicans are too busy protecting the wealthiest Americans.

Stay tuned. THE ED SHOW on MSNBC continues. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up on THE ED SHOW -- what do the U.C. Davis protests
mean for the bigger picture when it comes to the Occupy Wall Street
movement?

Activists and protester Jesse LaGreca joins me next.

The congressional supercommittee failed, but that might not be such a
bad thing. Senator Bernie Sanders has reaction tonight.

Newt Gingrich thinks a secular country is a nightmare.

And over the weekend, I went to Wisconsin where the recall effort on
Governor Walker is in full force. My thoughts and coverage of that later
in the show.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

SCHULTZ: The violence on the campus of U.C.-Davis happened because of
camping. Students were staging a protest in solidarity with the other
occupy movements. They put tents on the quad. Police were there to remove
the tents. Sound familiar, doesn`t it?

This is what`s happening all over the country, in New York, in
Oakland, in Portland. The U.C.-Davis chancellor was just following the
blueprint for breaking up the Occupy movements.

I`m joined now by Jesse LaGreca, protester, activist and freelance
journalist. What do you make of what you saw on that tape?

JESSE LAGRECA, OWS PROTESTER: It`s absolutely deplorable, you know?
To me it makes me feel like peasants -- the cost of living is going up,
your paychecks are getting decreased, your wages are declining. And if you
don`t like it, I have a can of pepper spray for you. It`s something that
all of us should be shocked and disturbed by.

SCHULTZ: Do the Occupy people need to make a statement in how they
want to deal with law enforcement before this spirals out of control?

LAGRECA: We`ve made several statements about engaging in civil
disobedience in a peaceful nature. And I think the video at U.C. Davis
exemplifies that. How can you attack students sitting on the ground? What
threat does it posed to anybody?

SCHULTZ: Well, I`ll answer that in conversation. I think it`s part
of a bigger plan. I mean, I think they`re putting their foot down saying,
look, this is what we`re going to do if you`re going to come out here. I
mean, what evidence do we have that that`s not what they`re doing? So,
where does that leave you?

LAGRECA: It leaves us in a situation where we have to be very mindful
of our actions. And the Occupy Wall Street protests over the last two
months have been the exemplary personification of nonviolence. There
really is nothing they oppose to us other than the fact that we won`t stand
for tuition costs going through the roof or stand for lack of
accountability.

SCHULTZ: What about leaving the tents behind?

LAGRECA: The tents are a smaller issue. I feel like the tents are a
physical manifestation of our protest.

But the reality is you can`t kill an idea. You can`t kill reality.
You can`t repeal reality.

And the reality for a lot of students right now is that they can`t
afford the rising cost of tuition faced with a jobless economy. Where are
these kids supposed to go?

To me, it`s an issue of the lack of accountability, whether the
chancellor at U.C. Davis, or a bankster who destroyed the economy, who goes
to jail? Who loses their job? Why are the police placed on paid leave?
What does a police officer has to do to lose his job when he`s harming
citizens who are literally just exercising their First Amendment freedom of
assembly.

SCHULTZ: Well, you heard the professor in the last segment saying
this is pretty much standard operating procedure. He`s seen the movie
before. They rough up the kids, put a cop on leave for a few days, paid
administrative leave, they`re back at it, and squashed out and the next
protest is handled the same way.

So, what has to happen?

LAGRECA: I would hope nothing has to happen. I would hope the police
would do their job and protect the citizens in compliance with the rule of
law.

And I don`t see anywhere and any policeman across the country where
it`s standard operating procedure to apply pepper spray before you arrest
someone. I really feel if Martin Luther King Jr. were alive today he`d be
getting pepper sprayed in the face and arrested with us. And we are a
continuation of the civil rights movement, of that fight for working class
people to earn a decent salary.

You know, it`s part of the American Dream. No one wants a handout.
We all expect to work hard, whether it`s at school, whether it`s in the
private sector, or the public sector. We expect to work hard.

But we expect something in return. Not just too big to fail banks
getting bailed out.

SCHUTZ: Now, Jesse, these students were saying they were there to
support the Occupy Sacramento and some other cities, Occupy Berkeley as
well which has been going on. The Occupy Davis has been a part of it. But
they`re saying it`s tuition.

That was one of the thing that was really -- is this part of the 99
percent movement? I mean, is this part of Occupy? Is this an offshoot you
think? I mean, is there interconnectivity here?

LAGRECA: It`s all the same thing. It`s all based on the income
inequality that`s pervasive through this country and literally just all the
rising costs, standing against the stagnant wages. In the last 30 years,
the wealthiest 1 percent has just accumulated all of that wealth. The rest
of us have seen our standard of living going down, down, down.

And as college tuition costs go up and there`s no jobs available, it
becomes a pressing issue for everybody in the economy. Not just the
students who have to pay these tuition fees, but their parents and
everybody else connected with them.

So, yes, student tuition issue, all of it, it`s all part of the larger
conversation, because the reality with Occupy Wall Street is, there`s no
15-second sound bite to sum this up. There are so many problems in this
country. We need a movement to fix it.

SCHULTZ: Well, there`s no 15 second sound bite to sum up the movement
and the protests, but there`s a lot of criticism out there that it`s not a
very well-defined. Is it so broad and so different from what we`ve seen in
the past that just about anything qualifies? I mean, that you could take
just about any protest in America and say, yes, that`s the 99 percent or
that`s all of occupy? Are you at that point?

LAGRECA: I think we are so large, we`re too big to fail. I think in
a certain sense, that there are so many different grievances right now that
it requires a lot of different voices to address it.

SCHULTZ: And what would you say to the students at U.C. Davis?

LAGRECA: I stand in solidarity with them and thank them for being the
example of nonviolent disobedience that all of us should aspire to be.

SCHULTZ: Are we reliving the `60s again? I mean, you go back and
look at the video tape. I was a young guy back in the days but I remember
it all -- I remember the hoses on the black folk in America. I remember
the dogs being let loose, I remember the cops coming over with the night
sticks working over the Vietnam protesters.

Is it going to get to that level?

LAGRECA: I would hope and pray that it doesn`t. At the same time,
we`re in the longest war since Vietnam. So, we are living the `60s again.
We`re in the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression, so kind of
we`re living in the 1930s, as well too.

And when I listen to some politicians, it makes me feel like they want
to go back to the 1880s or 1760s. To me, all of this is the same thing.
They`re working as hard as they can, and Wall Street, the lobbyists running
around Congress, to repeal the 20th century, so that the rich can get
richer and the rest of us peasants can just have, you know, whatever it
takes for us to go away.

SCHULTZ: And I have to ask you this. This is coming up later in the
program. But I need to ask you, have you taken a bath today and do you
have a job? I mean, what`s your response to Newt Gingrich when he says
something like that to people who are exercising their First Amendment
rights.

LAGRECA: I think Newt Gingrich is a morally bankrupt example of the
pervasive power of politics right now. I think he`s a career lobbyist
who`s willing to say anything. I think Newt Gingrich as president will be
exactly George W. Bush, only with more ex-wives.

SCHULTZ: Jesse LaGreca, thanks for joining us tonight. Appreciate
your time.

Coming up, Congressman Joe Walsh is screaming again. This time, he`s
hollering about the 99 percent movement and calling veterans socialist.
"Psycho Talk" is next.

And later, three time groom Newt Gingrich tries to convince America
he`s a morally upstanding guy. I think he`s got some work to do.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in "Psycho Talk" tonight, congressman and deadbeat dad
Joe Walsh, he`s screaming at his constituents again. He just won`t let up.

On Saturday at a town hall meeting in Gurney, Illinois, the Tea Party
mouthpiece went after the 99 percent movement, again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOE WALSH (R), ILLINOIS: I think these are generally spoiled,
pampered, unfocused, clueless young people and a smattering of other people
who don`t understand this country and are advocating anti-American
solutions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: One of Walsh`s constituents took offense that the
congressman`s ugly smear of the 99 percent and reminded him some of the
anti-American protesters were veterans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: I don`t know how many veterans are part of the Occupy
protests. I can`t imagine it`s many. But anyone who would advocate
socialists solutions to certain problems in this country, they don`t
understand this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In Joe Walsh`s world, soldiers who sacrifice for America are
socialists. If they want economic fairness, the heroes who put on a
uniform and fight for freedom all over the world have every right to be out
in the street exercising the First Amendment. Veterans fought for Walsh`s
right to run his fat mouth all over Fox News and his district.

But I wouldn`t expect Walsh to understand why veterans attend the 99
percent protester movement, because you see, he`s never been to one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been to the occupy movement?

WALSH: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: For Congressman Joe Walsh to call veterans anti-American
socialists is deadbeat Psycho Talk.

President Obama says he`ll veto any attempt by Congress to avoid real
compromise after the super committee came up empty handed.

The recall effort is well under way in Wisconsin. Tens of thousands
of folks gathered in Madison over the weekend to voice their opposition to
Governor Scott Walker. I was there. I`ll have a full report. The folks
are ready for change in Wisconsin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. And thanks for watching
tonight. The not so super committee has failed to reach a deal. I think
that`s a good thing. Failure to reach a deal means, for once, Democrats
did not cave in. Democrats didn`t agree to more tax cuts for the wealthy
at the expense of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

Here`s what President Obama said late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are still too
many Republicans in Congress who have refused to listen to the voices of
reason and compromise that are coming from outside of Washington. They
continue to insist on protecting the 100 billion dollars worth of tax cuts
for the wealthiest two percent of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: No doubt about that. Republicans worship at the altar of
Grover Norquist. The super committee has failed because Republicans have,
once again, dug in their heels on the side of the one percent. Democrats
have the American people on their side. The numbers are there.

Sixty seven support tax increases on businesses and higher income
Americans as a way to reduce the federal budget deficit. The president
says he`ll veto any attempt by Congress to avoid a real compromise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: One way or another, we will be trimming the deficit by a total
of at least 2.2 trillion dollars over the next ten years. I will veto any
effort to get rid of those automatic spending cuts, domestic and defense
spending.

There will be no easy off ramps on this one. We need to keep the
pressure up to compromise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight on THE ED SHOW, Vermont Independent
Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, good to have you with us tonight. Who
are the winners? Who are the losers? How do you call it right now?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, the American people are the
winners and the Republicans are the big losers. Look, as you`ve just
indicated, Ed, what is amazing, at a time of strong political division in
America, on this issue, the American people are united. Every single poll
that I have seen says that the American people understand that when the
richest people are becoming richer and their effective tax rate is the
lowest in decades, they`ve got to pay more in taxes to help us with deficit
reduction.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: We have all of these loopholes out there for corporations so
that they can make billions in a year and pay not a nickel in taxes. You
have to deal with that as well. And many Americans understand we have
tripled military spending since 1997. We`re in two wars that the American
people want out. You have to take a hard look at military spending.

SCHULTZ: Senator, is --

SANDERS: So the Republicans -- yes --

SCHULTZ: Go ahead, go ahead. So Republicans what?

SANDERS: So the Republicans who defend these positions of more tax
breaks for the rich, they are way out of line with what the average
American believes.

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s all about revenue to the Republicans, no question
about it. But if they had agreed at some level to give us some revenue
from the one percent down the road, would that have really brought a fight
within the Democratic caucus, because what was on the table, according to
John Kerry, was cuts to traditional programs that millions of Americans for
generations have depended upon. And the Democrats, I think, are there to
defend them. What about that?

SANDERS: Well, I think you`re right. It would have brought about an
internal debate within the Democratic caucus. My view has been Social
Security has not contributed one nickel to the deficit, because it`s paid
for by the payroll tax, has 2.5 trillion dollar surplus. I will continue
to fight to make sure that we do not cut Social Security, and tell people
who are living on 14,000, 15,000 dollars a year, who are getting older,
getting sicker, that they have got to be the people that do deficit
reduction.

When you got 50 million Americans, Ed, who are uninsured today,
medically uninsured, you don`t cut Medicaid or Medicare. There are a
number of us who believe that and will defend those programs.

SCHULTZ: So it seems to me that this was a discussion that the
Democrats were willing to have at a later date, but they just wanted to
prove the American people there`s no way Republicans are ever going to
serve up any more revenue from the one or two percent to try to fix our
financial problems in this country. What about that?

SANDERS: Well, I`ll tell you, frankly, Ed, if I were a Republican, I
would not be a happy camper having to go back to my state or my district
and say, look, yeah, I`m in favor of cutting Social Security, Medicare and
Medicaid, but you know what, I want to give more tax breaks to
billionaires, I want to protect corporate loopholes for large corporations.
And you know what, maybe we should spend more money on the military.

That is not a position I would like to defend because I think the vast
majority of the people in this country disagree with those ideas.

SCHULTZ: How do you think Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has
played all of this? Has he proven his worth in gold by putting Democrats
on the super committee that just would not cave on the big three?

SANDERS: Well, I think Senator Reid has done a very good job in
making sure, in fact, that in this instance Democrats do not cave; they
protect the needs of the middle class and working class of this country.
And I think that`s the right thing to do from a public policy point of
view. And I think he has isolated the Republicans who now have to defend
an absolutely untenable position.

SCHULTZ: Republicans say President Obama wanted the super committee
to fail. Here`s Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I do believe there`s a political
strategy involved here. And I certainly think the president would like to
run against a do-nothing Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: What about that? Do you agree with him?

SANDERS: No. I don`t think the president wanted this committee to
fail. None of us wanted the committee to fail. What the president wanted
is some justice here. He wanted to do what the vast majority of the
American people wanted him to do, and ask the wealthiest people and large
corporations, who up to this point, Ed, have not contributed one nickel
toward our deficit reduction.

That`s what the president wanted. He was right. The Republicans on
this issue are way out of touch with ordinary Americans.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, always a pleasure. Thank
you, senator. Appreciate your time tonight.

Newt Gingrich says America is too secular. We should get rid of child
labor laws. And the 99 percenters should take a bath? Folks, this is the
Republican party`s latest choice to lead the free world.

Joan Walsh, Salon.com, joins me for the conversation. We`re right
back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Well, he made it through the weekend. Newt Gingrich is
hanging on to the lead in the Republican primary. A new poll shows him
edging out Mitt Romney. 24 to 22 percent, while Herman Cain and Rick
Perry, they are fading fast. The serial adulterer and disgraced former
speaker of the House spent the weekend in Iowa pandering to the Christian
right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A country which has been
now, since 1963, relentlessly in the courts driving God out of public life
shouldn`t be surprised at all the problems, we have, in fact, attempted to
create a secular country, which I think is, frankly, a nightmare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: No, Newt, we have not attempted to create a secular society.
The Founding Fathers created a secular society. It`s in this little
document called the Constitution.

Meanwhile, Newt`s version of Christian values was on full display
during a speech at Harvard, where he plugged a unique strategy for getting
rid of unions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRICH: It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods in
trapping children, in -- first of all, in child laws which are truly
stupid. Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors,
have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school.
The kids would actually do work. They would have cash. They`d have pride
in the schools. They`d begin the process of rising.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: So not only does Newt Gingrich want to get rid of unions, he
wants to strip away the laws they fought for? In Newt Gingrich`s America,
the poorer kids would clean up after the richer kids. Who`s advocating
class warfare now?

Joining me now is Joan Walsh, editor at large, Salon.com. Joan, great
to have you with us tonight.

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Let`s talk about the Christian right first. Is -- let`s
fast forward. Let`s just say Newt does get the nomination. Where`s the
Christian right going to be with this guy, with his checkered past as
speaker and also the three marriages? Does it matter?

WALSH: You know, I think it will matter, but he`s also -- he`s so
good at claiming God`s forgiveness and God`s mercy for himself, Ed, and not
for the rest of us, not for children, the children of the poor.

I mean, I have to say, maybe this plan is a slight step up from when
he proposed that the children of women on welfare be put in orphanages to
be raised. Maybe -- maybe letting them live, you know, at home with their
parents, only work as janitors, I don`t know, maybe that`s a step up.

With Christmas coming, this guy is so Dickensian. He roots for
Scrooge. He`s not going to wear well on the rest of the country.

SCHULTZ: He also has -- he`s pretty media savvy. Talking about the
child labor law, he`s managed to switch the subject off of Freddie Mac and
his lobbying for at least a day.

WALSH: At least a day.

SCHULTZ: Who`s he trying to appeal to with this statement?

WALSH: You know, I think the Tea Party really believes that there is
a movement out there, that there is a constituency out there for truly -- I
think Jesse said it best -- rolling back the 20th century, turning back the
clock on the New Deal, and really putting all of us at the mercy of
employers.

And I -- the thing that`s so crazy to me is that, you know, we`re
seeing -- what we`ve seen in Wisconsin, and what we saw in Ohio is that
people are waking up and saying, you know what? I don`t want to live in a
society like that.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

WALSH: I think we can do better than that. So I don`t know what they
see, but he sees it, too. And we`re having a great debate about the future
of our country. And I think that our side is going to win.

SCHULTZ: Newt also went after the 99 percenters this weekend. Here
it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRICH: All of the Occupy movement starts with a premise that we
all owe them everything. They take over a public park they didn`t pay for
to go nearby to use bathrooms they didn`t pay for, to beg for food from
places they don`t want to pay for, to obstruct those who are going to work
to pay the taxes to sustain the bathrooms and to sustain the park, so they
can self-righteously explain that they are the paragons of virtue to which
we owe everything.

Now that is a pretty good symptom of how much the left has collapsed
as a moral system in this country and why you need to reassert something as
simple as saying to them, go get a job right after you take a bath.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: What`s your response to that, Joan?

WALSH: You know what, there aren`t enough baths to make Newt Gingrich
clean. He`s playing -- this is an old card from the culture war deck.
It`s not going to work, because you know what, in the -- let`s leave the
`60s and `70s aside. These kids right now are staggering under a load of
debt. We used to want to educate our children and now we apparently don`t.

So they`re very sympathetic people. They`re not dirty hippies asking
for a handout. They`re asking for justice. I just think it`s so lazy to
just reach back into the Nixonian playbook for crappy old culture war
stereotypes that don`t work anymore. It`s really something to watch.

SCHULTZ: He made an interesting statement in that answer. He said
that the protesters think that they are owed something. Do you think they
are, in a sense, feeling like they are owed something outside of fairness?
They`re out there for fairness and social justice and economic justice.
Where does that bring us?

WALSH: Well, you know, they remember -- they look at -- they look at
our generation, frankly, which was, you know, one of maybe two generations
that really got the American dream. They got a decent education. You
know, UC tuition was free before Ronald Reagan. There were little fees.

But I mean, the cost hike that you documented earlier in this show,
more people need to know that. We used to want to educate our children for
either free or very cheap, and apparently we can`t afford that anymore.
That`s all -- all they`re asking for is decency.

SCHULTZ: If you don`t have educated workers, then it`s easier to
concentrate the wealth. Joan Walsh, always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

WALSH: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, this is what democracy looks like. Thousands
turned out for a Recall Walker rally to get signatures in Madison. I was
there. I got to tell you, these folks are organized. They`re excited.
But this is not going to be an easy lift. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Finally tonight, the recall effort is well under way in
Wisconsin. And already things are getting ugly. Two volunteers helping
out with the petition drive to get rid of Governor Scott Walker, just to
get it on the ballot to try to oust him, say that they`ve had violent
threats made against them. Authorities are investigating. WISC has the
report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sounds of a fall recall have been mostly
positive for signature collector Tom Peer (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They sign up and they say thanks for being out
here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But one night this week --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a phone call about 2:00 in the morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things sounded much worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said if you don`t stop circulating recall
petitions, we will kill you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That story sounds the same in Sun Prairie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said that I had attracted the attention of
some very bad people, that my life and the lives of my family were in
danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That didn`t stop thousands of folks from gathering at a
peaceful rally in Madison over the weekend. I was there to see exactly
what this change is all about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The mood was more than festive; people anxious
to create change and answer to a radical agenda against workers.
Saturday`s march in Madison was all in the process to recall Governor
Walker. Over 540,000 signatures are needed. And you get a sense that this
won`t be an easy lift.

(on camera): How intense are the pro-walker people?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very. Very. They -- one offered to fight me. I
wanted to go out in the woods and fight me. This is going to be a real
heavy lift, but I think we`ve got it. And I`m committed to staying out
here until I get 100 signatures a day.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the people want this?

UNIDENTIFIED FeMALE: Look at the people out here. Yeah, they want
this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to tell you, Ed, since we`ve launched the
kickoffs, people have been lining up at union halls. People have been
taking petitions. People have been going to their workplaces, to their
churches, going out to their community. And from what I can tell, there`s
a big demand for petition signatures.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Labor may be the force behind Walker`s recall,
but the message coming from Madison to the country is much greater.

(on camera): What about the 99% movement? What about Ohio? I mean,
is this all part of a bigger picture that just happens to be here in
Wisconsin now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, it`s all together. It`s one thing. It`s
one voice. And the momentum is not going to stop. They say the 99 percent
movement has ended. It`s just begun, my friend. It`s just begun.

(SINGING)

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The political climate in the middle of the
country, according to this crowd, relates to the Occupy effort. In fact,
they believe it all started here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always say to people, Wisconsin was the first
Occupy movement. OK, we did this back in February. They didn`t call it
that, but it was the same thing.

SCHULTZ (on camera): What do you see happening in 2012?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see us taking our country back. I`m hoping that
our president when he wins, takes that as a mandate for real change. We
need real change in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In the middle of the country, they march talking about
change. You know, on Saturdays in Wisconsin, they`re pretty important,
especially last Saturday. It was the deer gun season that opened up. Of
course, the Badgers had a big football game against Illinois in which
Wisconsin won. They`re now nine and two.

So a lot of stuff was going on. But that didn`t stop 30-plus thousand
folks from coming out and gathering petitions. A lady on the street said
to me -- she said, Ed, you know, we know the country is watching us.

And I thought to myself, that`s exactly what the people in Ohio said
to me when we were covering the run up to Senate Bill 5 and the recall of
that. I don`t think any political analyst can know exactly what`s going on
in this country and what it really means and if the intensity can be
maintained all the way through to next November.

But I have to tell you, when I was back in Wisconsin in February, I
thought, well, this will be for a couple of months. And then it went into
a recall and all 14 of those senators still have a job. There were nine
recall elections. Five Democrats won, two of them in areas where
Republicans have a pretty good stronghold.

And then, of course, there`s this story. Now they want to get rid of
the governor. How far will it go? Will it go into November of 2012?
That`s the exciting thing about democracy. And that`s the exciting thing
about freedom of speech. And what`s motivating these folks beyond what
they really want, fairness, social justice, economic justice.

What`s motivating them is a candidate on the other side of their
political ideology who says they should go take a bath. You see, those
folks in the street in Madison, the ones that I talked to, the butcher, the
baker, the candlestick maker, the engineer, the firefighter, the police
officer, the teacher -- oh, yeah, they relate to the 99 percent movement.

They are offended by the rhetoric that comes from the right. They are
offended by the arrogance that comes from the one percent who say that they
already pay enough.

I believe Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky said something about that this
weekend. We`ll talk more about this tomorrow as well.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. You can listen to my radio show
on Sirius XM radio channel 127, Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00.
Follow me at Twitter @EdsHow and @WeGotEd.

"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now. Rachel, if I had won, I had a
thousand people ask me, is Rachel so nice? As nice as she is on TV? I
said absolutely.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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