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The Ed Show for Wednesday, November 23, 2011

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Guests: Jim Moran, Steve Murphy, Douglas Brinkley, Jesse Lagreca, Lizz

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight, live from Minneapolis.

Newt Gingrich served up his immigration plan on a silver platter. But
tonight, Mitt Romney looks like the real turkey.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


heat for saying let`s be humane in enforcing the law by finding a way to
create legality so that they are not separated from their families.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Newt Gingrich is turning heads with his
immigration policy, and the other Republican candidates are on the attack.

Virginia Congressman Jim Moran is here with reaction.

Wolf, that`s also my first name. And

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney doesn`t know his own name. He`s giving Ron Paul
dirty looks. And his first TV ad is a big fat lie.

MSNBC contributor E.J. Dionne is here with the latest on Mitt`s very
bad week.

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. I`ll give you some shopping tips and advice
on how to deal with your crazy conservative relatives.

And watching FOX News makes you dumber. Pat Robertson is confused
about mac and cheese.

And Megyn Kelly says pepper spray is a food product. "Daily Show" co-
creator Lizz Winstead will have it all on her plate.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for

You know, if we found out one thing about the Republican Party last
night, they`ve got a real problem with immigration. Immigration seems to
be the soft underbelly of the Republican Party and the top two candidates
for the Republican nomination are dealing with the consequences.

Today, it`s mop-up time for Mitt and Newt.

For a hardcore conservative, Newt Gingrich showed up at the debate
last night with an off-the-wall answer on immigration.


GINGRICH: You need something like a World War II selective service
board that frankly reviews the people who are here. If you`ve come here
recently, you have no ties to the country, you ought to go home, period.
If you`ve been here 25 years, and you got three kids, and two grandkids,
you`ve been paying taxes and obeying the law, you belong to the local
church, I don`t think we`re going to separate you from your family and
uproot you forcefully and kick you out.


SCHULTZ: Newt Gingrich just affected amnesty. This isn`t going to
fly with the hard right wing conservatives in this country. Michele
Bachmann knows it, she jumped all over it. Her campaign sent out e-mails
saying that Newt Gingrich supports amnesty.

Influential conservative Richard Viguerie who supports Rick Perry said
Gingrich`s answer might be just plain dumb.

Mitt Romney took a much different approach. He went far to the right
of everyone on the stage with his answer about immigration.


ROMNEY: Amnesty is a magnet. When we have had in the past program
that is have said people who come here illegally are going to get to stay
here illegally the rest of their life, that`s going to only encourage more
people to come here illegally.

WOLF BLITZER, DEBATE MODERATOR: Are you saying that what he`s
proposing, giving amnesty, in effect, or allowing some of these illegal
immigrants to stay is a magnet that would entice others to come to this
country illegally?

ROMNEY: There`s no question. But to saying that we`re going to say
to the people that have come here illegally that now, you`re all going to
get to stay or some large number are going to get to stay and become
permanent residents of the United States, that will only encourage more
people to do the same thing.


SCHULTZ: But there is no question Romney saw this as an opportunity
to score support with the right wing. In the spin room after the debate,
his spokesman had a hard time explaining Romney`s position to a reporter
from the conservative "Washington examiner."


ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: I think he made it very clear that he was opposed
to amnesty, and Newt Gingrich made it very clear that he supported amnesty.

REPORTER: So what -- does then Romney believe in deporting every
person who entered the country illegally?

ROMNEY: He doesn`t believe in creating them amnesty?

REPORTER: Well -- what`s the -- what`s the distinction? What do you
do with them if they`re here?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: Well, first, you have to turn off the magnets, to
get them to stop coming.

REPORTER: No, but they`re already here. So, for the people that are
here --

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: He would not grant them amnesty?

REPORTER: No, but what would he do with them?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: He would not grant them amnesty.

REPORTER: But what would he do?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: I just told you, he`s not going to grant them

REPORTER: But that`s not an answer, that`s telling me what he won`t

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: It`s my answer.

REPORTER: What would he do?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: He would not grant them amnesty.

REPORTER: What would he do?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: Well, if you cut off their employment, if they
can`t get work, if you don`t give benefits like in-state tuition, they will

REPORTER: All of them will leave? You think all of them will leave?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: Enough of them will leave that it won`t be as big
as a problem as it is today.

REPORTER: So what do you do with the people who are here?

ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: I just answered your question, Phil. And, you
know, you keep heckling me about it.


SCHULTZ: So, you can understand how this is a problem for Romney. He
sure didn`t want to answer the question "what would he do?" Because, you
see, back in 2007, Romney had a totally different position on immigration.


ROMNEY: My own view is, consistent with what you saw in "The Lowell
Sun", that those people that have come here illegally and are in this
country, the 12 million or so that are here illegally, should be able to
sign up for permanent residency or citizenship. But they shouldn`t be
given a special pathway, a special guarantee that all of them get to stay


SCHULTZ: Romney is all over the place on immigration. He`s even got
his own staff confused.

Now, last night, Mitt Romney was right on the stage in front of some
very powerful Washington conservatives. He knew he had to take a hard
right stance on immigration. Republicans, what are they? Well, they are
beholding to corporate interests when it comes to immigration in this
debate in this country. If we start talking about, you know, amnesty as
far as conservatives are concerned, then we need to start talking about low
wage workers joining unions and signing up to collective bargaining so they
can go have a better life.

Corporations don`t want to hear anything about expanding their
payrolls or collective bargaining. Hard right wingers don`t want to hear
about compassion.

Mitt Romney made a play for the corporations and the hard right wing
last night. Newt Gingrich made a play for human decency. In the end, both
of them may lose.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: Can Republicans ever develop a humane immigration
policy? Text A for yes, text B for no to 622639. Our blog is there for
you at Results are coming up later in the show.

Joining me now is Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia.

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight. Appreciate your time.
First of all, happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for being on THE ED SHOW. I`m
thankful you`re here when we ask you to be here. Thanks so much.

REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: Nice to be here.

SCHULTZ: You know Newt Gingrich. You bet. You know Newt Gingrich.
I mean, was he speaking from the heart last night, or was this just a
political ploy to get the Latino vote? What do you think?

MORAN: Normally, it would be a political ploy. But no rational
person thinks we could or should deport 12 million people, particularly if
they raise their kids and grandkids here. Many have volunteered for the
military and so on.

So, Romney`s position is a nonstarter. It`s just fascinating how the
level to which he`ll prostitute himself in order to pander to the Tea Party

But Newt is a fascinating case. You know, I wouldn`t want him, Ed,
ever teaching history to my kids, but he has made history. You know, when
you think back, he`s the one that got rid of Speaker Jim Wright back in the
`80s, largely because Wright was upset about the Reagan administration`s
funding, the right wing death squads in Central America. But he got rid of
them largely for the same reasons that he was fined $300,000 when Newt
became speaker.

Then, of course, he`s the one that ushered in this Republican
resistance to any kind of tax increases because he engineered Papa Bush`s
defeat in `92 because he had a mixed package of, you know, revenue
enhancements and spending cuts. And then he`s the one that created the
toxic environment that the country is still suffering from in the Congress
when he brought in the new Gingrich Republicans and the Contract on America
in `95.

So, you know, there`s -- Newt has a fascinating history, and I think
you need to see what he says, consider it in context. But, you know --

SCHULTZ: Last night, he made a very interesting play to moderate
Republicans if there are any out there anymore. He made a very interesting
play to the Latino community I think, and I think the Republicans have a
hard time with that voting bloc out there.

And so, here he is talking about, you know what? We just can`t round
people up and throw them out.

The bottom line is, the corporations -- they don`t want amnesty in any
way, shape or form. Would you agree with that?

MORAN: I think that`s the case with many of them. But neither do
they want these workers deported. The agricultural industry desperately
needs migrant farm workers.


MORAN: Construction industry needs them, the hospitality industry
needs them.

So the idea that you would deport them is counter to what most
businesses want, certainly small businesses. But they certainly don`t want
them to be able to be organized and have the right to speak out by joining,
you k now, organized labor or even having the rights of citizenship.

SCHULTZ: That`s what they do.

MORAN: Right now, they`re powerless to speak back. And that`s what
they want. Well, yes.

SCHULTZ: Yes, that`s what they do.

MORAN: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: You give amnesty. Or if you get a pathway to citizenship,
these low-wage workers, especially in the service industry, are going to go
right into unions, that`s exactly what the conservatives are concerned
about, that`s what the corporations are concerned about.

This was Newt Gingrich`s response after Michele Bachmann pressed the
amnesty issue last night. Here it is.


GINGRICH: I don`t see how the party that says it`s the party of the
family is going to adopt an immigration policy which destroys families that
have been here for a quarter century. And I`m prepared to take the heat in
saying: let`s be humane in enforcing the law without giving them
citizenship but by finding a way to create legality so that they are not
separated from their families.


SCHULTZ: Congressman, what did you think of that answer? I mean, he
basically took a shot at the Republican Party, saying you folks are wrong
on this and I`m willing to take the heat on that. What do you think?

MORAN: Well, I happen to agree with what he said then. But, you
know, this morning, his spokesperson said what he`s talking about are
community review boards where the neighbors of illegal immigrants would
decide whether or not they get deported.

So, he`s backing off that. I`m not sure how much credit he should get
for being humane and rational in that response.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia, thanks for joining us
tonight. Appreciate your time.

Now, let`s turn to Democratic strategist Steve Murphy and MSNBC
political analyst Michael Eric Dyson, professor at Georgetown University
and author of the book, "Can You Hear Me Now?" I think that`s what Newt
was saying last night, can you hear me now? Because it was very different
from what everybody else was saying who was on the stage last night.

Steve, you`re not convinced. I read what you put on one of the blogs.
You`re not convinced that this was a gaffe on Gingrich`s part. Explain

think what Newt -- Newt is very shrewd in terms of dealing with the media.
He`s risen to the top in the polls. He knows all his personal life now is
going to become a big issue, Freddie Mac, $30,000 a month for half an hour
meetings. The media is pouncing on that, vetting him as a potential

And here he comes out in the next debate and gives them this to nibble
on instead of his real vulnerability which is his -- he`s a Washington
insider and a horribly partisan divisive figure when he`s been in
government in the last 15 years.

SCHULTZ: Michael, have Republicans completely lost out at any attempt
at winning the Latino voters? What do you think?

absolutely right, Ed. But the reality is that even if he`s right for the
wrong reasons, we have to at least acknowledge that Newt Gingrich moved the
debate in the right direction. Maybe now, we can talk about a pathway to
citizenship. Maybe we can talk about some kind of amnesty that is anathema
to the larger Republican fold.

But it is true that he took and will continue to take heat for that
position even if he has political calculations out there to secure the
interest and support of the Latino community. For the most part, the
Republicans are tone deaf and they are blind to the need to create

They talk family values all the time. I think Newt Gingrich said this
rather bravely. You speak about family values all the time and yet you
destroy families. How can you subvert them at the same time support them?

So, I think we need to take advantage of what Newt Gingrich has done.
If it`s a gaffe, let`s turn it into a gift and move forward.

SCHULTZ: Steve, you can`t deny -- go ahead, Steve.

MURPHY: I was going to say, a couple of other points about this.
First of all, Newt didn`t really say that these folks would be given
amnesty. They`re not going to get a path to citizenship under his plan.
Look, he said community review boards.

But what he`s talking about is turning all the illegal immigrants in
the country who have a job, who have been here for a while, into a guest
worker program like what you`re talking about. They couldn`t be citizens.
It would be very hard for them to join labor unions. So, he knows what
he`s talking about there.


MURPHY: Secondly, even a plurality of Republicans are opposed to mass
deportation of illegal immigrants. Now, that`s not the Tea Party position.
In places like Iowa where the participation level is low, this is going to
be a real problem for him.

But he gets to places like New Hampshire and big statewide primaries
and I don`t think this is going to destroy him because he hasn`t said they
can become citizens.

SCHULTZ: Well, what about Romney? You know, Michael, what about
Romney? Can he keep surviving but changing these positions?

I mean, we played two sound bites earlier in this segment that were
totally different than what his position was on immigration. He saw an
opening last night and took a hard right wing position. What about that?

DYSON: Yes, he`s like -- you know, in one sense, Mitt Romney is
looking at the paraphernalia of seduction here -- by which I mean whatever
audience he`s in, he`s going to play to them. If he`s with this hard right
wing audience, American Enterprise Institute and the like, he`s going to
sound tough.

If he tacks to the moderate side because he`s in a different room,
he`s going to go there.


DYSON: So, what he`s trying to do is engage in political camouflage.
He`s trying to hide himself behind whatever position that appeals before
the audience which is immediately before him.

SCHULTZ: And, gentlemen, I want to get your reaction to this -- one
more thing before you go. I want to get your reaction to this clip from
pat Robertson`s show.

Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the one thing you have to have at


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sister, that`s my dish. That`s the only thing I
can rock.

RICE: But only once a year.

PAT ROBERTSON, TV EVANGELIST: Good interview, Christine.


ROBERTSON: What is this mac and cheese? Is that a black thing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a black thing, Pat. Listen, you guys,
other people -- the world needs to get on board with macaroni and cheese.
Seriously. I just -- OK, Christmas and Thanksgiving we have to have
macaroni and cheese. It trips me out that you don`t.

ROBERTON: I really don`t. I don`t and I have never.


SCHULTZ: Is that the generational divide right there? Michael,
what`s your reaction to that? Holy smokes.

DYSON: Not only do black people like macaroni and cheese, we like
freedom and justice. We like progress and equality. So, add that to your
Thanksgiving meal as well and we can stuff that in the turkey.

SCHULTZ: Steve Murphy and Michael Eric Dyson, great to have you guys
with us tonight. Happy Thanksgiving. We`ll see you down the road. Thanks
so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at the bottom of the screen and
share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what you think.

Coming up: Mitt Romney is refusing to pull his fraudulent campaign
commercial and we will see a whole new side of the former governor. I saw
a whole new side of the governor last night. I want to share it with you.

And later, a heated exchange on the Hill between a congressman and
university professor. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up on THE ED SHOW: Mitt Romney`s arrogance was on
full display last night. Meanwhile, his campaign defends his attack ad on
President Obama.

E.J. Dionne of "The Washington Post" is next.

Jesse LaGreca has some tips on avoiding a Thanksgiving food fight with
your conservative relatives. That`s important.

And Lizz Winstead is here. We`ll find out which Republican candidate
she`s most thankful for.

And I`ll have a commentary on Black Friday.

Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Willard Mitt Romney started the national security debate
with a bang. Willard doesn`t seem to know his own first name.


ROMNEY: I`m Mitt Romney, and yes, Wolf, that`s also my first name.


SCHULTZ: Romney`s lie wasn`t the only low light for the vulture
capitalist and world class job killer. Willard was caught on tape acting
like a spoiled brat when Congressman Ron Paul answered a question about
defense spending.

Now, take a look at this. Romney could on the hide his disdain for
the congressman. Romney`s stares and facial distortions I think show a lot
about the former governor`s personal character. Willard was used to
getting his way. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and a chip
on his shoulder.

Romney treated Ron Paul like a stranger who walked on stage for the
first time.

Now, before Tuesday`s debate, Romney and Congressman Paul have shared
the stage 25 times over the last four years. You think he`s heard just
about every answer?

Willard Romney has an elitist attitude. He`s treated the debate
process like a coronation instead of a competition. Willard Romney has no
respect for his opponents.

The stare he puts on Governor Perry is interesting as well.

Romney`s reprehensible campaign commercial doctoring President Obama`s
words has been labeled a lie and proven a lie.

Today, the Romney campaign is refusing to pull the commercial.
Romney`s communication director said, "We were very up front. We included
that portion intentionally."

Let`s bring in MSNBC contributor E.J. Dionne, senior fellow at the
Brookings Institution and columnist for "The Washington Post."

E.J., great to have you with us tonight.

I`m watching this debate last night. And, you know, they know each
other. They`ve been on the stage together a lot. The facial expressions
of Mitt Romney towards someone who is serving the country, I just think is
the pressure getting to him? But it was just flat-out disrespectful.

Are we seeing a side of Mitt Romney -- of course, we`ve seen him in
the debate as well saying let me finish, let me finish. He gets a little
testy when he doesn`t get his way.

What do you make of this man`s mannerisms and demeanor when he gets
under fire in a debate?

E.J. DIONNE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, happy
Thanksgiving, Ed.

I think you can ask in fairness to Romney the following question, does
he respect these opponents? Answer, probably not.

Question, have any of these opponents earned a whole lot of respect?
And I`m not sure the answer to that is yes.

But I do think you did see something there, and especially you saw it
in that exchange you referred to with Rick Perry where he just wouldn`t let
go of the fact that Rick Perry interrupted him and he wanted Rick Perry to
live by this particular set of rules. There`s a kind of rigidity there
which I think is part of him.

But I think the premise of your piece is correct because the danger to
Romney is precisely that he will look like this wealthy, privileged guy who
looks down his nose at other people, and he cannot allow that to stand. I
suspect his team is going to make him watch that videotape to tell him you
can`t do that anymore.

SCHULTZ: Well, I would go so far as to that it`s a lack of
discipline. And it`s also that of someone who is very wealthy, always
seems to get his way, and can be disrespectful and get away with it. I
think it`s a real snapshot of what kind of president he would be.

I mean, I just could not imagine Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama
having that kind of an exchange or any of the Democratic nominees that were
up on stage in 2008.

Do you think that Mitt Romney feels entitled?

DIONNE: Well, I don`t know. You know, he has lost a couple of races,
and I guess one of the things I like best about him is the devotion he has
to his dad, George Romney, who is actually a very progressive Republican.
I think all that part of his is true.

But I was really struck by a very good piece about a month and a half
ago in "New York Magazine" by Benjamin Wallace Wells. He had a really
interesting way of describing Romney. He talked about him as a perfectly
objective efficiency machine.

Now, that is not -- maybe you want that as the consultant to your
company. But that`s not a great description of the kind of politician you
want to have.

Bill Clinton was not a perfectly objective efficiency machine, and
that`s kind of what makes him a good politician because he`s human, because
he`s warm, because he`s out there.

SCHULTZ: Well, there was nothing efficient about his first campaign
ad because it`s been viewed by many and also labeled and proven to be a
lie. Should we expect more lies from the Romney campaign? Is this the way
it`s going to be?

They are defending the ad that was -- that I`m talking about. And
they are owning up to the fact, well, President Obama said it, even though
it was taken big time out of context. Is this the way it`s going to be for

DIONNE: I thought that was honestly one of the most outrageous ads
I`ve seen in a long time and I`ve seen a lot of bad ads, because here was
President Obama, then-candidate Obama saying what John McCain was saying
and criticizing him for it. And they`ve got those words coming out of
Obama`s mouth as if it were Obama`s.

It`s like putting Rick Perry`s words into your mouth. I think it`s

But I think this year we`ll see a lot of this kind of advertising, not
only from the candidates, but especially from all these big money groups
that have been freed up by Citizens United. I hope the mainstream media is
ready to call a lie a lie when it`s a lie.

SCHULTZ: Well, after viewing this debate last night and watching Mitt
Romney, I have to say that, you know, he just appears to be a game show
host. And if I was in the crowd and he told me to come on down because I
won, I just don`t think I`d believe him.

E.J. Dionne, great to have you with us tonight. Happy Thanksgiving to
you. Always a pleasure.

Millions of Americans will storm the shopping malls this weekend.
Next, I`m going to tell you where to find the best deal in America, the
absolute best deal in America.

And Jesse LaGreca is here to show you just how to deal with your low
information relative voters that watch FOX.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: No Psycho Talk tonight, just some holiday straight talk.
I`ve wanted to do this for a long time on the air, and this is the perfect
time. The day after Thanksgiving is Black Friday. We as Americans go out
every year to start the holiday shopping season right after Thanksgiving.
Around our Thanksgiving table tomorrow, I will remind our family just how
lucky we are to have our health and a job.

There are millions of Americans who are out of work, millions of
Americans out there without health insurance. As a family, we are very
fortunate to be able to give. So what can we do as Americans this holiday
season to make things a little bit better in a tough economy?

I think as a country, we should all focus on buying American. Instead
of buying some cheap product from China that`s sitting on somebody`s big
department store shelf, that will help them build their empire, save a
small business in our country this year and buy American this holiday

May I ask you to do that? Buy something made in this country. Buy
American. Americans, you and I, we will spend 10 billion dollars this
holiday season. If we just make the effort, we can save a job. We can
help a company stay in business and do something for our neighbor. That`s
what we do so well in this country, at least we used to.

Most small companies in America are two paychecks away from closing
their doors. It`s that tight. If we focus as Americans on our economy, we
can make a real difference. Unfortunately, our politicians, hell, they
can`t even agree on this.

Buy American is strong and it means something. It means everything to
that small manufacturer, that small business person. Americans, can we
agree tonight that we are consumers and we have the power? The best gift
that we can give to our country this holiday season is to buy products that
have been made in America.

My dad used to tell me that tough people last, tough times don`t,
because we`re Americans. We can certainly see this country getting through
these tough economic times. It`s about loyalty. Are you a loyalty -- are
you a loyal employee? Are you a loyal American?

Do you abide by the laws and the rules? Do you love your family? Do
you love your country? Do you love your community? Make the effort this
holiday season to buy American. It affects jobs. Ten billion dollars is
going to be spent in our economy in this holiday season.

And I think if we can just get a fraction of Americans to say, you
know what, I`m buying American this holiday season -- I`m going to help
save an American job, I think it will make a big difference.

We found a Republican from Alaska who makes Sarah Palin sound like a
moderate. His story and Doug Brinkley will be here to talk about his
tussle on Capitol Hill.

Fox News makes you dumber. No kidding. There`s a university study
out there that proves it. Lizz Winstead will take the Republican
candidates to school later in the show. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. You know, there`s two things
Republicans really like. That`s tax cuts and oil fields, wherever they
are. It doesn`t matter. They love oil. The "drill baby drill" folks,
well, they were out in full force at a recent House committee hearing about
opening ANWR.

Here we are. We`re back to that, ANWR again open for oil exploration.
Things started really heating up when long-time Alaska Congressman Don
Young arrived. This guy make Sarah Palin seem moderate. He once told
"Rolling Stone Magazine," quote, "environmentalists are a self-centered
bunch of waffling, stomping, Harvard graduating intellectual idiots. They
are not Americans, never have been Americans and never will be Americans."

I think we know where he stands. Young again showed his contempt for
environmentalists at a hearing on Friday. He skipped the testimony of
award winning historian and expert on the Alaskan wilderness, Dr. Doug
Brinkley from Rice University.

When Young finally did show up, he made it clear that he had no
intention of learning from Brinkley`s expertise. The congressman didn`t
even get the professor`s name right. Listen to this.


REP. DON YOUNG (R), ALASKA: I will tell you, if you ever want to see
an exercise in futility, it`s this hearing. That side has already made up
its mind. This side has already made up its mind. And the -- I call it
garbage, Dr. Rice, that --

Rice is a university. I know you went to Yuba College and couldn`t


YOUNG: You just be quiet.

BRINKLEY: Why? You don`t own me. I pay your salary.


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Dr. Doug Brinkley, presidential historian,
author and professor at Rice University. Dr. Brinkley, great to have you
with us tonight.

I think that`s an exchange that a lot of Americans appreciate. Here
is an arrogant congressman who wants to run over the environment. All you
were going from what I could see was -- I read some of the testimony. You
just wanted to go there and give the expertise about what drilling would do
at ANWR. I think I`ve got this right. You tell us more. Did you know
what you were getting into with the congressman?

BRINKLEY: Everybody knows he`s a bit of a crackpot. So I kind of
expected that. But he never shows up to Congress. He`s got one of the
worst ratings -- if you Google him, you could find -- look up Jack Abramoff
or Bridge to Nowhere, and you`ll find his name.

He just doesn`t show up. But when he does, all he does is says it`s
garbage and then beat up on people. So I struck back. I was simply there
to talk about the Arctic in a celebratory way. Dwight Eisenhower created
the Arctic Refuge in 1960. It`s our nation`s premier wildlife refuge. I
was there to talk about U.S. Fish and Wildlife and our national parks and
monuments and places like the Grand Tetons and the Grand Canyon and Redwood
Country of California and the Alaska Arctic.

He got into that kind of exchange with me. He`s a bad faith operator,
Young. What I want the American people to know is we can be proud that we
have this national park system and our wildlife refuge system. Just
because we`re having a little bit of tough time now, we don`t want to
molest these places.

I`ve been getting, I`m not kidding you, thousands of letters,
including from republicans, conservatives, aghast at the way Congressman
Young treated me. But it`s par for the course. I`ve found out now he`s
been doing this literally to dozens of people that show up on Capitol Hill.

SCHULTZ: Why do you think members of Congress like Don Young are so
opposed to listening to experts as yourself when it comes to drilling for
oil in ANWR or restoring anything that we have preserved as a nation?

BRINKLEY: Well, Theodore Roosevelt, one of my heroes, and Dwight
Eisenhower, both Republicans, I might add, they talked about people like
Young as being land skinners, despoilers, slob hunters. The hunting
community in this United States is fantastic. They`re conservationists,
real hunting and fishing people.

I grew up in Ohio. My family -- my mother and father went to college
at Clarion State in Pennsylvania. This is hunting and fishing country.
Real people love to take care of America.

What Young wants to do is line his pockets. He`s a flak for the oil
industry. But he`s failed. He`s been in Congress since the `70s. The
Arctic refuge is still there. ANWR is one of our crown jewel national

And Young`s I think on his way out. The letters I`m getting from
people in Alaska are just sick of him. Even people that want to drill in
Alaska care about the Alaska wilderness. You didn`t run the clip, but at
one point, he was saying don`t camp. Camping is elitist.

I`ve gotten letters from the Boy Scouts of America, church groups that
are angry at Young, telling young people that somehow camping is un-
American. I think he`s cracking. In some ways, it was sad because he`s a
man sort of only barely there in reality. He seems to be operating on a
very -- on a platform that`s about to collapse on him at any minute.

SCHULTZ: The congressman from Alaska continued to attack you at the
hearing. Here is more.


YOUNG: I made a mistake when I said Mr. Rice, because I heard Rice
University and that can get in my mind. Like I say, when we`re here, we`re
the ones that ask the questions. You answer the questions. You may not
work in the private sector.

BRINKLEY: I do work in the --

SCHULTZ: I`m not asking you a question yet. You may not. When you
think about it a moment, you made a comment about me is why I`m really
pissed right now. You, in fact, said that I wasn`t here. I was over in
the floor voting.

BRINKLEY: I know you were.

YOUNG: OK, then don`t mention my name.


SCHULTZ: Why do you think he was so upset? What`s wrong with this

BRINKLEY: Really, honestly, Ed, he`s not right in the head. What can
I tell you? Beyond that, he just never shows up. So there I was giving
testimony. He wasn`t there. And then at the last minute, when the cameras
started, he kind of snuck in. And you can watch him sit there and started
calling it garbage, and Mr. Rice. It`s a very bad faith operator.

It doesn`t do anybody any good to have somebody like that in Congress.
I hope the people in Alaska -- incidentally, I go to Alaska all the time.
This summer, I`ll be leading a cruise group up there. What an incredible
place. You go to the Aleutian or Chain, which is the Alaska Maritime Area,
or Mt. McKinley, Denali Wilderness, you go to Glacier Bay.

So I encourage people to go to Alaska. Most people up there are warm
hearted and great conservationists. Young is just an odd duck.

SCHULTZ: I tell you, Dr. Brinkley, I totally agree with you. I have
fished Lake Clark up there and I have also fished the Alagnak (ph) River,
some of the most fantastic salmon fishing on the face of the Earth. I feel
privileged, years ago, having an opportunity to go up there.

When you see the pristine wilderness of Alaska and you hear a
congressman like that go off the rails, it`s just amazing to me. Thanks
for sticking to your guns. I appreciate it so much, Dr. Doug Brinkley,
with us here on THE ED SHOW tonight.

Next, Fox News viewers are dumber than most. No kidding. Chances are
you`ll have to deal with one of them at your Thanksgiving gathering. We`ve
got a plan.

Jesse Lagreca joins me next on tips on how to communicate with
conservatives over turkey. That`s next.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. OK, here is the scene at every
Thanksgiving. You go home. There`s uncle Rich. He`s a righty and he`s
running his mouth about the liberals. Now what do we do? How do we handle
the dinner?

Let`s turn to activist and freelance journalist Jesse Lagreca. Jesse,
good to have you with us. OK. Here is a right wing lie you might hear at
the dinner table tomorrow: Occupy Wall Street protesters are dirty and they
need jobs. Here is Newt.


starts with the premise that we all owe them everything. They take over a
public park they didn`t pay for, to go nearby to use bathrooms they didn`t
pay for, to beg for food from places they don`t want to pay for.

We need to reassert something as simple as saying something to them go
get a job right after you take a bath.


SCHULTZ: Jesse, how do you handle that at a dinner table.

sitting down with our families and enjoying the food that we enjoy, sharing
the values that we share. So to me, I kind of work on the idea of kill
them with kindness. The idea is that the larger issues that are more
important to Americans are what we should be discussing.

If someone is going to start off by telling you to take a bath or just
go get a job, just dismiss that. It`s nonsense. What we should be talking
about is the fact that the average American has seen their standard of
living decrease over the last ten years, over the last 30 years.

Just this year, reported that the cost of putting a
Thanksgiving dinner together has gone up 13 percent. So I think the
overall game plan should be to skip the petty talking points and go to the
larger issues that all of us can agree on.

SCHULTZ: All right. Here is another right wing classic lie:
President Obama apologizes for America. Here is Romney.


for America. It is time for us to be strong as a nation. And if we are
strong with a military and economy that are so strong, no one in the world
will try to attempt to threaten us or to attack our friends.


SCHULTZ: I mean, wait a minute now. We`ve got some Obama supporters
sitting at the table for Thanksgiving. We can`t take that, can we? How do
we handle it?

LAGRECA: I kind of imagine the United Nations as like a big
Thanksgiving dinner. After the Republicans have been there, they`ve
embarrassed the country for eight straight years. We kind of have a little
explaining to do. We`re not apologizing for America. We`re apologizing
for nit wits who ran this country into the ground.

We have to explain to our friends around the world, yes, sorry, they
start that war. It was a really dumb idea to begin with. And we don`t
want to continue down that path, so we`re going to change direction.

I think our Thanksgiving dinner tables are all part of the same
conversation. So we`re not apologizing for America. We`re apologizing for
embarrassing Republican presidents.

SCHULTZ: If you have any diehard Fox News family viewers there,
you`re certainly going to hear about the 16 dollar muffins. Here it is.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: At a training conference in August
`09, 4,200 dollars was spent on 250 muffins. That adds up to 16 bucks per
muffin. Now I`m sure they were delicious muffins. I`m sure they were
presented in a pleasing way. But the 16 dollar muffin now becomes a symbol
of how wasteful the feds are.


SCHULTZ: Now, Jesse, that`s a flat out lie. We can`t let that go at
the dinner table, can we?

LAGRECA: No. It`s meant to distract from the larger issues. These
guys are so out of touch with reality, the most important thing they`d like
to talk about is muffins. So let`s talk about the lower standard of living
that a lot of Americans are being expected to put up with, especially under
the Paul Ryan budget, that would end Medicare as we know it.

I think most people want this honest conversation, whether it`s at the
Thanksgiving table or here on THE ED SHOW or anywhere else in America. We
don`t want to talk about petty nonsense. We want to talk about our future
in an honest way.

SCHULTZ: Finally, here is Rick Perry on how the stimulus doesn`t
create jobs.


doesn`t create jobs. Otherwise the last 2.5 years of stimulus would have


SCHULTZ: Now, this is a big point here because the Congressional
Budget Office has come out and said the stimulus package has created, just
this year, 3.3 million jobs. Jesse, we can`t let that go over turkey,
either. What do you think?

LAGRECA: I think that each year, presidents pardon turkeys. And if
Rick Perry is elected president, he`s probably going to execute one. I
think that the stimulus did a very good job of making sure Americans didn`t
slide into the next Great Depression. I think Rick Perry`s own state has
been the beneficiary of that stimulus. It`s basically the only thing that
kept Texas from falling face first into a deficit that Governor Perry

So he is the last person to really have anything to say about that.

SCHULTZ: And we should probably point out he`s taken federal money to
guard the border down there. Jesse Lagreca, great to have you with us
tonight. Have a great Thanksgiving.

Rick Santorum said Africa was a country. Rick Perry can`t do math.
And Herman Cain is afraid of mountains. "Daily Show" co-creator Lizz
Winstead clears the table next for Thanksgiving on THE ED SHOW.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. I`m thankful for so much on
this Thanksgiving even. And I`m thankful for Lizz Winstead, because she
makes me laugh a lot. She`s a real talent and a friend. Co-creator of
"the Daily Show," she`s also the author of a new book "Lizz Free or Die,"
which is now available for pre order on Amazon and elsewhere. She has
stepped away from preparing her own turkey to join us here tonight on THE

I want to play this Pat Robertson sound bite for you, when he`s
talking about a Thanksgiving side dish. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the one thing at Thanksgiving you just
have to have?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sister, that is my dish. That is the one thing
I can rock.

RICE: But only once, once a year.

PAT ROBERTSON, THE 900 CLUB: Good interview, Christie.


ROBERTSON: What is this mac and cheese? Is that a black thing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a black thing, Pat. Listen, you guys,
other people -- the world needs to get on board with macaroni and cheese.
Seriously, I just -- Christmas and Thanksgiving, we have to have macaroni
and cheese, and it trips me out that you don`t.

ROBERTSON: I really don`t. I don`t and I have never.


SCHULTZ: Lizz, got to correct the record. Is mac and cheese a black

LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: First of all, she`s bummed out that she`s
tripping Pat Robertson out about macaroni and cheese. I don`t think it`s a
black thing. I think it`s -- first of all, I think it might be an Italian
thing first, because it`s pasta and sauce. And I guess it`s considered
soul food. And then it`s also considered something that a lot of people

I normally do have macaroni and cheese at Thanksgiving. I`m not this
year because my butt is the size of a house, so I`ve decided to back off.
But, no, it`s so weird. Why was -- he was so interested. Is that a black
thing? It`s like -- I don`t think Pat Robertson knows what one black thing
is honestly, except for that woman on the show.

SCHULTZ: Yesterday we reported about a study that came out of
Fairleigh Dickinson University that proved that people who watch Fox News
are less informed than non-news viewers. In other words, watching Fox
makes -- watching Fox makes you dumber. Now, what do you make of that

WINSTEAD: If I hear you correctly, you`re telling me that watching
Fox News makes you dumber than if you lived in a cave and watched nothing.
Is that correct?

SCHULTZ: That`s right.

WINSTEAD: I think that sounds like a fine study. I think that`s
probably exactly right.

SCHULTZ: For those who don`t watch Fox News, they`re smarter than the
ones who do.

WINSTEAD: Well, yeah. I believe that to be true. I`ve often
pondered why Fox News is popular. And as you know, Ed, my dear mother was
a big fan of the Fox News. And she was 89 and half deaf and watched Fox
News, which meant she got half of half of the truth. I was trying to
figure out why Fox News is so appealing.

It could possibly be just because it`s the loudest network. It`s just
loudest and the graphics are the biggest. It`s like, I can read that, I
can hear that, this will be my truth, regardless if it is the truth or not.

SCHULTZ: You`re a big supporter of the Occupy Wall Street Movement.


SCHULTZ: Give me your reaction to Megan Kelly and Bill O`Reilly on
the pepper spray thing earlier this week. Here it is.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: First of all, pepper spray, that just
burns your eyes, right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like a derivative of actual pepper. It`s a
food product essentially. But a lot of experts are looking at that and
saying is that the real deal or has it been diluted, because --

O`REILLY: They should have more of a reaction than that.


SCHULTZ: Are you serving any of that food product at your dinner

WINSTEAD: I bathe in it. Those woosies at Occupy can`t even take a
little bit of concentrated pepper poison in their face. It`s amazing to
me. If Newt Gingrich was president, he would -- instead of pardoning the
turkey, he would just pepper spray the turkey.

SCHULTZ: Lizz Winstead, have a great holiday. Will you? A great
Thanksgiving. You bet.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. I`m really thankful for all of
you who watch this program and listen to my radio show. Thank you so much.

Have a great weekend. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now.


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