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The Ed Show for Monday, November 28th, 2011

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Guests: Chuck Schumer, Dennis Kucinich, Joan Walsh, James Peterson, Mike

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

Another woman is alleging a 13-year affair with Herman Cain.

Late breaking news in the Walker recall story. We`ll have the
exclusive numbers here tonight.

And Republicans, you know what they want to do? They want to raise
your taxes by $1,500. But they refuse to ask the top 1 percent to pay a

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Opposition by Republicans
smacks of partisanship because this tax cut has President Obama`s
fingerprints on it.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Republicans want to raise taxes on working
families regardless of a record income gap. Tonight, New York Senator
Charles Schumer is here and he`s going on offense.

The liberal icon Barney Frank is calling it quits, and he`s not
pulling punches on the way out.

REP. BARNEY FRANK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I did not think I had lived a
good enough life to be rewarded by Newt Gingrich being the Republican

SCHULTZ: I`ll ask Congressman Dennis Kucinich what Frank`s departure
means for America.

Breaking news for Herman Cain.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: We`re bracing. We`re getting ready, and you put
it in your words, for what?

had an affair with someone, another woman.

SCHULTZ: "Salon`s" Joan Walsh on how Herman`s latest bombshell
affects Romney and Gingrich.

And tonight, an ED SHOW exclusive: we`ll have the latest petition
count for the Walker recall in Wisconsin. The number of signatures is
shocking, and you`ll hear it here first on THE ED SHOW.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Hope you had a
nice Thanksgiving. Good to be back with you.

In less than five weeks` time, unemployment benefits will expire for
more than 6,000 Americans. That`s a big number. In less than one week,
Congress may raise taxes on more than 120 million families.

Republicans -- well, it looks to me like they`re about ready to let
both of them happen. The debt reduction supercommittee failed because
Republicans want to protect the wealthiest Americans from any tax
increases. That`s the bottom line.

And today, they tried to turn the tables. Republican leader in the
Senate blamed the failure on the Democrats.


Republicans wanted this committee to deliver and the good news is we`ll
still see $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction. But, frankly, it`s hard to
escape the conclusion that some in the White House and even some Democrats
here in the Senate were rooting for failure and doing what they could to
ensure that that failure occurred.


SCHULTZ: Republicans are now threatening the extension of the payroll
tax holiday, which gives about $1,500 to 120 million families and cuts
payroll taxes for 98 percent of businesses.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said not extending the tax holiday
would have major consequences.


REID: If Republicans block this legislation, 120 American families
and 98 percent of American businesses will not get a tax cut next year.
Instead, 120 million families, and millions of businesses, will be hit with
a tax increase. Those numbers are startling. They`re shocking.


SCHULTZ: It is even more shocking when you see what a failure to
extend the tax holiday would do to the rest of the economy.

Moody`s chief economist says that without the payroll tax cut, we`ll
be back in a recession. It would cause the nation`s GDP to drop between 1
percent and 2 percent, and we would lose half a million jobs in the
economy. Republicans still won`t budge on tax increases for the wealthy.

Super committee Senator Jon Kyl doesn`t seem to mind increasing the
taxes on the middle class, but he says any increases on the rich would put
a wet blanket over job creation and economic recovery?


SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: By taxing the people who provide the jobs,
you put off the day that we have economic recovery and job creation in this
country. And that`s precisely what the Democratic plan would do.


SCHULTZ: I tell you what? They do a hell of a job of flipping
around, don`t they?

Those job creators have benefited from the Bush tax cuts for the last
10 years. They got everything they wanted.

I want Jon Kyl and the Republicans to tell us why those job creators
haven`t rescued the economy after receiving a decade of historic tax
relief? It`s not because they aren`t making enough money. The chart we
use a lot on this program shows just how much the top 1 percent has gained
while the rest of the country remains stagnant. What do you call that?

This was back in `79. And here we are in 2009. Look at those wages.
Haven`t done anything.

And the Republicans still want to give tax breaks to these folks.

Oh, I got a new dandy chart for you, folks. Here`s one -- they hate
this one. Let me tell you, the righties, they hate this one. Corporate
profits as a percentage of GDP are at their highest levels in the past five
decades. The past five decades, right?

Personal wages have dropped like a rock at the same period of time.
You know, the last time we had a gap like this was back in 1929, and that
was the start of the Great Depression. So here are the wages where they
are. And here are the corporate profits right there.

You tell me, is this just kind of new math? Or are we headed for the
same thing? See, Republicans, they scream, you can`t raise taxes on the
job creators, but they are more than willing to stick it to the middle
class -- the shrinking middle class in America that only the Democrats seem
to be paying attention to.

You ever hear the Republicans talk about the middle class? They

Let me ask the Republicans this: why do you think Black Friday sales
were at an all-time record last week? What do Republicans think are going
to happen to the economy when they take extra spending away, extra money
away from the 98 percent of Americans?

Republicans are on the losing side of this popular opinion in this
country. There`s no question about it. It`s a winner for the Democrats.

Senator Charles Schumer told "The New York Times" 2012 is going to be
a lot different from 2010 for voters because, quote, "Jobs and income
inequality are going to be the number one issue. Simply cutting government
isn`t going to work." I totally agree.

You know, I picked up the paper on Thanksgiving morning and I read in
"The New York Times" an editorial, it said, "The poor, the near poor, and
you." And I thought that this was so well written and so to the point
because you couldn`t -- you don`t even have to be a news follower to follow
this one, OK?

It said loud and clear that one-third of Americans, one out of every
three Americans, is living in poverty. We sit here bickering over a little
bit of a tax cut, we sit here bickering over a little bit of an
unemployment extension of benefits, but in the big, big picture, what are
we going to do? Where`s the war on poverty? Where`s the big lift?
Where`s the big idea to turn this whole thing around?

And what`s so disheartening about it is if you can`t get the
Republicans to the table to make real cuts and sacrifice one dime for the
middle class in this country to help the treasury, how the heck are you
going to pull a third of a country out of poverty? It`s a heavy lift.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question is: is income inequality a winning issue for the Democrats in

Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. You can always go to our
blog at We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

New York Senator Charles Schumer joins us tonight here on the program.

Senator, great to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: And I appreciate your due diligence on this issue. I know
where you stand on it.

You know, it`s a winning issue for the Democrats. The public is with
you on these issues. Are you confident the payroll tax holiday will be

SCHUMER: I think it will be. I mean, look, we`re getting a lot of
opposition from our Republican colleagues, but they`re in a box and they`re
in a box for two reasons.

The first reason is that many of them have supported this very payroll
tax cut in the past. In fact, when the president was putting together a
jobs program, he tried to have a mixture of things that Democrats had
supported and Republicans had supported and this is one Republicans have
supported and even recently people like Marco Rubio and Mike Simpson and
you would maybe not believe this, but Newt Gingrich, have said nice things
about the payroll tax cut.

The second is this: the Republicans have just spent three months both
in the supercommittee and fighting our jobs bills on the floor saying you
cannot raise taxes on incomes over $1 million. Well, they don`t want to
raise taxes on incomes over $1 million? The wealthiest 1 percent amongst
us? And they want to raise taxes or are willing to raise taxes on the
middle class, the average working family, the person in the suburbs making

Gee whiz. That is such a loser politically that I believe that if we
keep the heat on and keep focusing on this issue, which I`m trying to get
us to do, they will fold.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the Democrats need to sharpen the messaging on
these issues? I mean, I show these charts. The income inequality, it`s
there. I go out on the road. I hear it all across this country. It would
seem to me that if you hammer that home, you`re going to win big-time in

Is this the issue the Democrats are going to jump on?

SCHUMER: Yes, I think it is. I mean, look, there`s a salient fact,
the number one fact, and your charts showed it, is for the last decade,
median income has declined. It`s the first -- it`s the first decade since
World War II where that has.

And the middle class people feel that the American Dream, which is
very simple -- it says if you work hard, the odds are very high, you`ll do
better ten years from now than you`re doing today and your kids will
certainly do better than you. The middle class for the first time, for the
first time in American history, is wondering, is that dream still true?


SCHUMER: And so, what they want, frankly, is they want help. They
want -- yes, they are upset about government paralysis. But the Republican
Party has it all wrong. It`s not that they think -- the Tea Party has it
all wrong, too.

SCHULTZ: Senator --

SCHUMER: It`s not that they -- it`s not that they think government`s
doing too much. Government`s doing too little to help them.

SCHULTZ: What are the Democrats prepared to give up to get this
extension for unemployment benefits to Americans, to get this payroll
holiday extension? What would the Democrats be willing to negotiate? I
mean, the Republicans obviously aren`t going to sit there and say, hey, OK,
let`s extend this, and what do you say we throw out more unemployment

SCHUMER: The logical things to do, the Republicans and some Democrats
frankly, say they don`t want to do these things unpaid for. Now,
traditionally, when you`re trying to stimulate the economy, and we all know
it`s flat, you do it unpaid for. And even though we have a serious budget
deficit that we have to deal with, you do that over a 10-year period but
immediately you pump money into the economy to get it pumped up.

Now, they say you are to pay for it. All of a sudden, they`re saying
it, although they never said it for the war in Afghanistan or Iraq or for
the Bush tax cuts, or even for the Medicare prescription drug bill in the
last 10 years. But now, they`re saying, oh, you have to pay for it.

So, we`re willing to look at how they would pay for it.


SCHUMER: And we`re open to that. We`re open to that.

But let me tell you this, Ed, this is a sharp-edged issue that shows
basically fundamental hypocrisy and fundamental focus on the very people --
God bless them, I`m glad they made a lot of money, I`m not one of these
people who goes out and excoriates the rich. I think it`s part of America.

But these are the people who have done the best.

SCHULTZ: No doubt. No doubt.

SCHUMER: And they`re focused on them and not on the middle class.
They know it`s a loser.

SCHULTZ: I don`t know how we`re going -- I don`t know how we`re going
to have an economic recovery if we don`t have a thriving middle class.

SCHUMER: You know, here`s the issue --

SCHULTZ: If we don`t have families with disposable income, I don`t
know how it`s going to turn around.

SCHUMER: You`re so right. Ed, here`s how we do it. It`s not -- the
image, the message carries itself. It`s pretty simple and pretty easy.
You don`t need slogans or anything like that. They`ll help.

We just have to keep at it. It is very difficult in this new world
we`re in with everything swirling about, and there`s so many different
outlets. If we just do it once or just do it twice, the cognizanty (ph)
will hear us but no one else. If you keep at it, it will work.

That`s why I`ll give you a very good number for Democrats in the House
and Senate. In June, when cutting government was still ascending, they
asked people the most important question you can ask as to whether we`ll
keep the Senate in 2012, and that is, do you prefer generically a
Republican or Democrat controlled Senate?


SCHUMER: Forty-seven/forty-one Republican in June. By October 15th,
when we started focusing on jobs, even though we didn`t pass -- we passed
one or two of them, but we focused on it, it`s now 45 Democrat, 41
Republican. And that margin is going to grow greater for us if we focus on
an issue like this.

SCHULTZ: I want to talk more about the payroll tax holiday. This is
Senator Kyl. He says the payroll tax holiday is threatening Social
Security. Take a listen.

SCHUMER: Yes, that`s --


KYL: The problem here is that the payroll tax doesn`t go into general
revenue. It supports Social Security. And you can`t keep extending the
payroll tax holiday and have a secure Social Security.


SCHULTZ: Senator, your response to that.

SCHUMER: Well, first, you know, I like Senator Kyl as a person and
we`ve worked together on some issues, but gee whiz, he has never been at
the front of the line defending Social Security.

That`s a bogus argument. And here`s why: there`s a Social Security
trust fund. It gets money that comes into it. It can come from the
payroll tax, but here for every dollar we reduce the payroll tax, we put a
dollar in from the general fund.


SCHUMER: In our case, we pay for that by increasing taxes on incomes
over $1 million. But to the trust fund, itself, it doesn`t matter where
the dollar comes from, as long as it gets the same amount of dollars. And
the Social Security trust fund after the payroll tax cut passes will have
the exact same amount in it as if it didn`t -- as then before.

SCHULTZ: Senator, good to have you with us tonight. Keep up the
fight. Thanks so much.

SCHUMER: Ed, you, too. You framed it very well. In the first five
minutes of the show. That was great.

SCHULTZ: I appreciate it, sir. Thank you so much.

SCHUMER: Thank you. Thanks. Bye-bye.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter with the #EdShow. I want to know
what you think.

Coming up, a liberal legend is calling it quits. Congressman Dennis
Kucinich on today`s announcement that Barney Frank is leaving the Congress.

The pizza man is serving up some more deep dish. Herman Cain wraps up
another early Christmas gift for Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

And we`ll have an exclusive on the petition figure out on the Walker
recall in Wisconsin. It`s a big number. So, stay tuned.

You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up on THE ED SHOW:

Barney Frank announces his retirement and takes one more swipe at
Republicans. His colleague Dennis Kucinich is here with reaction.

New allegations against Herman Cain. A woman claims she had a 13-year
affair with him. The latest on that, along with newt`s big New Hampshire
endorsement. And the DNC`s latest hit on Mitt Romney.

Liz Cheney says President Obama`s re-election strategy is to let the
economy tank?

An ED SHOW exclusive out of Wisconsin, the latest on the Scott Walker
recall efforts from the state`s Democratic Party chairman later in the

Keep those tweets coming. We want to hear from you. Share your
thoughts on Twitter with #EdShow and we`ll feature them on the screen
throughout the show tonight and every night.

Stay tuned. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

The Democrats are losing a great one. A leader who righties just love
to hate is retiring. Congressman Barney Frank of Massachusetts announced
that he will not run for re-election in 2012 after more than 30 years of
service. Congressman Frank had long planned to retire by 2014, but decided
to leave two years sooner for many reasons. One factor was the effect
redistricting would have on his constituency.


FRANK: There were other issues that I worked on that would either
become politically irrelevant or diminished relevance. I don`t want to be
torn between a full-fledged campaign in a district with 325,000 new people
and my obligation to the existing constituents.


SCHULTZ: Frank has been a major advocate for progressive causes for
three decades and he`s been a highly effective legislature. President
Obama was able to claim sweeping financial reform because of the Dodd/Frank
bill which included major new consumer protections.

But today, Frank was clear about the obstacles of getting anything
done in the current Congress.


FRANK: The leverage you have within the government has substantially
diminished. The anger in the country, the currents of opinion are such so
that the kind of inside work I have felt best at is not going to be as
productive for the foreseeable future.


SCHULTZ: Congressman Frank was as blunt as ever in characterizing
today`s Republican lawmakers.


FRANK: It consists half of people who think like Michele Bachmann and
half of people who are afraid of losing a primary to people who think like
Michele Bachmann. And that leaves you very little ability to work things


SCHULTZ: And Frank had a few words for former Speaker Newt Gingrich
who recently said Frank should be thrown in jail.


FRANK: I did not think I had lived a good enough life to be rewarded
by Newt Gingrich being the Republican nominee. It still is unlikely, but I
have hopes.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in congressman from Ohio, Dennis Kucinich.

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Good do be with you

First we say thank you, Barney. Thanks for your courage, for your
outspokenness and for your sense of humor, which is uncommon in Washington.

SCHULTZ: What has he meant to the progressive caucus causes over the
years? How powerful has he been? How influential?

KUCINICH: Well, you can -- you know, a lot of attention has been paid
to financial reform. Let me tell you another area. Barney Frank has been
a consistent critic of the extraordinary amount of money we spend in
expansion of the Department of Defense, the military industrial complex.

And, you know, this is a significant issue and will continue to be.
He`s someone who has famously been an advocate for civil rights for all.
He has been able to demonstrate that there aren`t any barriers in America,
that where people can be who they are. He has a sense of integrity and
authenticity which has been a beacon for millions of Americans. That kind
of a person is rare, and we all appreciate Barney. We love Barney.

SCHULTZ: You know, Congressman, I think there`s a lot of liberals,
progressives across the country tonight thinking, you know, darn it, we
lost another great fighter. How big of a loss is this to Democrats?

KUCINICH: It`s a loss. Barney Frank has deep knowledge of the
institution of Congress and also of the legislative process. He`s not
going to be replaced. It`s up to those of us who have the honor of
continuing to serve in the Congress to be able to keep drawing the lines
and fighting the fights, particularly on those economic issues which are so
important to the American people, as the kind that you discussed earlier in
the show, Ed, where you talked about the mal-distribution of wealth in our
society and it`s getting more and more serious. And certainly, Barney
Frank`s voice continues to be need.

But I think as he pointed out, there are other ways for him to be
heard and we certainly will continue to hear from Barney Frank even as he
leaves the institution.

SCHULTZ: Well, can he do more out of the Congress? I mean, he
described the climate. What it`s like right now. How hard it is to get
anything done. It sounds like he`s going to stay engaged.

What do you think?

KUCINICH: Barney Frank has the kind of intellectual depth that any
place he stands he`ll be heard. And so, it would be great if he was in the
institution, but he`s made a decision not to be. And when he leaves, it`s
up to us to keep carrying on.

But I think that outside the institution, Barney Frank is going to be
heard from. And he should be. He`s somebody who`s very important to the
debate in this country and I`m proud to call him a friend.

I always appreciate the fact that years ago, he came to Cleveland and
helped me get elected to Congress.

SCHULTZ: He said that redistricting was not the cause of his
decision, but it was a factor. I mean, is this just the unfortunate
reality of it all? And, of course, raising the money, having to deal with
another almost half million new constituents. What about that?

KUCINICH: I think that every incumbent knows that redistricting can
subject any of us to the vicissitudes as Washington called it of public
life. You can serve a constituency for your whole lifetime and then have
it pulled out from under you, with the change of a map.

Barney, no matter what kind of district he had, would have been
formidable. But he`s made a decision I think that all of us know him and
love him respect and it`s important for him and for Jim and to all of his
friends who will have a little bit more time to spend with him and he, as I
said, I expect we`ll be hearing from him and he`ll continue to play a very
important role as a spokesperson inside the Democratic Party about the path
that the country can and should take toward a more economically just

SCHULTZ: Congressman Frank said Republicans are blocking
implementation of financial reform. Here it is.


FRANK: The Republicans have refused to fund the agency that we gave
the power to do derivatives to. They are trying to block the Independent
Consumer Bureau.


SCHULTZ: Will financial reform lose its teeth with Frank out of
Congress? What do you think?

KUCINICH: Well, that`s really going to depend on the makeup of the
next Congress. Congressman Frank, as Chairman Frank -- I mean, he saw
firsthand the ins and outs of a political system where, frankly, money
rules. And he was able to rescue some important reforms, notably as you
talked about earlier, consumer protection.

But the -- the movement right now by those who are in charge is to try
to nullify the gains that were made. So I think when he speaks about that,
he -- there`s no one who knows better about what kind of obstacles we face
to be able to keep in place even modest financial reforms.

SCHULTZ: Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich -- always great to have you
on the program, Congressman. Thanks so much for your time tonight.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Dick Cheney`s daughter Liz Cheney thinks
President Obama`s re-election strategy involves high unemployment? I`ll
show her who`s really rooting for a bad economy next.

Two football legends go at it. We`ve got the video. You won`t
believe it. I`ve got play-by-play. I mean, come on. This is not a
Saturday night stroll in the park, is it?

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And in "Psycho Talk" tonight, Liz Cheney thinks she
understands President Obama`s formula for success. According to Liz, the
president`s strategy for re-election is to keep the economy in the ditch.


LIZ CHENEY, DICK CHENEY`S DAUGHTER: The president of the United
States has put no serious plan on the table for dealing with entitlements,
which is the biggest challenge that we face economically right now. The
president of the United States I don`t think made a single phone call to
people on the supercommittee. I talked to one Republican member of the
supercommittee who said he reached out numerous times to the White House to
say, we want a deal, we need a deal, and was completely given the back of
his hand.

There was no effort here. The president basically seems to have made
the calculation that he`s going to let the next 13 months of the American
economy slide for the sake of his own, you know, political --


SCHULTZ: So it`s all about cuts, then, it`s not about creating jobs.
In Liz Cheney`s world an incumbent president wants to go into a re-election
fight with unemployment at nine percent, and it`s more important to talk
about cuts? Last time I checked, the bad economy isn`t so good for the guy
in the Oval Office.

By the way, the real reasons Democrats refuse to accept the Republican
supercommittee deal is that, number one, it was rotten, it was no good, and
it was ridiculous. Their compromise involved less than $300 billion in new
revenue and it included an even bigger tax cut for the rich, again and

President Obama is not the one who wants the economy to slide. The
Republicans are the ones who have had their number one goal stated all
along that they want to defeat President Obama next year no matter what it
takes. Republicans are the ones who oppose middle class tax cuts while
they continue to fight for the one percenters. Republicans are the ones
who have walked away from compromises again and again and again.

And the only reason these jokers running for president on the
Republican ticket have any shot at all at winning is if it`s a bad economy
and it goes to double digit unemployment. So for Liz Cheney to say
President Obama wants the economy to get worse, so he can get reelected, is
just plain dumb, "Psycho Talk."

More trouble for Herman Cain. Another accuser`s come forward.
Another one? This time she says it was a 13-year consensual affair.
That`s next.

And later, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is seeing the consequences
of his anti-middle class policies. We have breaking news in an effort to
recall the governor. Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Well, it`s a new week which means Herman Cain has a new
accuser. Earlier Cain preemptively denied yet another round of




BLITZER: There was no sex?




BLITZER: And if this woman says there is, she`s lying? Is that what
you`re --

CAIN: Well, Wolf, let`s see what the story is going to be.



SCHULTZ: OK. The story is this -- Atlanta businesswoman Ginger White
says she had -- says she and Cain had a 13-year affair. Now, what`s the
definition of affair? White says that Cain flew her around the country and
lavished her with gifts.


GINGER WHITE: It was pretty simple. It was uncomplicated. And I was
aware that he was married. And I was also aware that I was involved in a
very inappropriate situation, relationship.


SCHULTZ: Two totally different sound bites, wouldn`t you say? White
says the affair ended about eight months ago right before Cain declared his
candidacy. Here`s the report from WAGA.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She showed us some of her cellphone bills that
included 61 phone calls or text messages to or from this number starting
with 678. She says it is Herman Cain`s private cell phone. The calls were
made during four different months. We texted the number and Herman Cain
called us back. He told us he knew Ginger White but said these are more
false allegations. He said she had his number because he was trying to
help her financially. That was the end of the call.


SCHULTZ: Cain denies having an inappropriate relationship with white,
yet in a written statement Cain`s attorney didn`t deny anything. He said,
"This appears to be an accusation of private alleged consensual conduct
between adults, a subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry
by the media or the public."

Let`s bring in Joan Walsh, editor at large,, and Dr. James
Peterson, director of Africana Studies and associate professor of English
at Lehigh University. Great to have both of you with us tonight. I can`t
help but think Christmas came early for Newt Gingrich on this one. Joan,
what do you make of this? Does this really deep six his campaign for good?

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: Oh, I think it does, Ed. I mean, look, it was
already falling apart partly because of the other accusations and then also
because he`s done an abysmal job on the campaign trail.

But, you know, I was thinking today that the first -- I was on with
you when the very first allegations broke in "Politico" and we sat and we
listened to Herman Cain`s changing story in the course of that day. You
kept showing clips. And at one point he started to claim that, perhaps,
these women had been terminated or there was a work issue involved, and I
said to you, he better shut up because, you know, people are going to want
to come out and tell their stories.

And it turns out that part of why ginger white decided to tell her
story today, she said, is because of the way these women had been demonized
and treated like they had done something wrong. So I thought that was very
interesting. His flailing and demonizing these people really backfired as
a strategy.

SCHULTZ: We know that Newt Gingrich is no saint. He`s even admitted
he`s not the perfect candidate. But Dr. Peterson, how do you view -- could
there be any recovery by Herman Cain after all of this?

DR. JAMES PETERSON, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: Well, I would hope that people
who have been following the campaign of Herman Cain don`t need this
particular scandal to understand that he`s probably not the guy that we
need to be running this country. I mean, there`s a whole lot of
substantive stuff and a whole lot of mishaps and sort of irreverence with
foreign policy, his ridiculous nine-nine-nine plan, even some of his
performances in the debate, in the national media. There are a lot of
reasons why we shouldn`t be supporting or voting for Herman Cain.

But I also think this particular case is distinct. It`s different
from the sexual harassment. I don`t know how you weigh those things out,
but this is somehow a little bit different in my eyes and my sense is,
again, if this is what makes you not support Herman Cain, I don`t know what
folk have been watching up to this point.

SCHULTZ: Gingrich snagged a key endorsement from New Hampshire`s most
influential newspaper "The Union Leader." Here`s what the paper`s publisher
had to say earlier.


going to have a better time in the general election than Mitt Romney. I
think it`s going to be Obama`s 99 percent versus the one percent and Romney
sort of represents the one percent.


SCHULTZ: Well, that`s quite a statement considering Gingrich is using
a line after credit at Tiffany`s and the millions he made I guess as a
historian giving advice to Freddie Mac.

Joan, where does this leave Romney, where does this leave Gingrich now
that Herman Cain has got more problems?

WALSH: Well, you know, I also -- in that clip where he, Gingrich said
that he`s not perfect, he sort of compared himself to Jesus Christ and said
only Jesus is perfect, he also just really took a hammer to Newt -- excuse
me, Romney, on flip-flopping and saying he will never change his positions.

And my mouth dropped when I heard it on television, today, Ed. As you
and I have gone over again and again, he`s changed his position on
individual mandate, he`s changed his position on climate change, changed
his position on five or six things partly because of the companies that he
was representing. So this is really bold of him, and I think Romney`s got
no choice but to fight back.

Well, the DNC came out with a four minute web video ad showing all of
Romney`s flip-flops. How can conservatives feel good about voting for the
guy after watching it? Dr. Peterson, I mean, where do you see this headed
right now? Is Mitt Romney in trouble?

PETERSON: Well, I think he is in trouble. I think Gingrich, and
don`t forget about Rick Perry, will both benefit from the decline in Herman
Cain, right? They will both benefit. That mean they will become stronger
and robust challengers to the not-Mitt-Romney crown. Gingrich has a lot to
gain. He`s also to me a little bit more scarier than some of these other
Republican candidates because Gingrich is pretty smart. He`s very, very
crafty and very, very articulate when it comes to switching his positions,
something a craft that Romney has not quite yet perfected.

SCHULTZ: Back to Herman Cain for just a moment. He is now being
judged I think by many Americans as a liar. I mean, I think he lies. When
does he hurt the Republican brand, or should I say, does he add to it?
When does he become an irrelevant candidate, Joan?

WALSH: I think he`s on the verge of irrelevance. It is pretty ironic
this womanizing allegation is going to benefit Newt Gingrich who married
two of his mistresses. The thing about Newt is Newt admitted it, and like
him or not, Newt has made it part of his redemption story. He`s a Catholic
now, Ed, so he`s been forgiven for those trespasses.

SCHULTZ: These evangelical Christians in Iowa have a lot to think
about, wouldn`t you think, Mr. Peterson?

PETERSON: I`m sorry, they`re not afraid of hypocrisy. If you look at
the track record and look at some of the most so far religious folk across
this country, there`s been scandal. So hypocrisy is nothing that folk are
afraid of.

I think that remember Herman Cain brought a lot to the conservative
right because he`s black and presented himself a different way. So I think
they`re prepared to make the tradeoff as he diminishes in the polls.

SCHULTZ: So his reputation is tarnished now even to be on stage with
the Republicans at the convention in my opinion. Joan Walsh, James
Peterson, great to have you with us tonight, thank you.

Two football legends reliving the good old days. You won`t want to
miss my play-by-play of this unbelievable fight.

Lots more coming up on Wisconsin as well. You`re watching "The Ed
Show." We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And in my "Playbook" tonight, it`s always interesting when
the old job straps get back together and relive the good old days. That
was not the case on Friday for two legends of the Canadian Football League.
Joe Kapp who in fact used to play with the Vikings in the NFL, former
quarterback, and Angelo Mosca, a defensive lineman, came to blows on stage
at an alumni luncheon. Let`s go to the videotape.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) -- Only QB in history of the game to
play Rose Bowl and Super Bowl. Please, the icons of the game, Mr. Angelo


Take a seat by Angelo. Maybe you can relive those moments.






SCHULTZ: Well, Joe Kapp tried to hand him some flowers, but, of
course, that was rejected. This grudge goes back 48 years to the 1963 gray
cup. Kapp is 73, Mosca is 74. Right jab, and then he follows up with the
left hook right there. Eat that for lunch. Hard to believe, isn`t it?
How come Joe Kapp didn`t play that aggressive when he played for the
Vikings in the Super Bowl? That`s a different story.

The luncheon, by the way, was held to benefit work of the CFL Alumni
Association, the work they`ve done for athletes with lingering side effects
from concussions. Joe Kapp almost gave him one there on stage.

Up next, Scott Walker`s policies are destroying health care,
education, and the middle class in the state of Wisconsin. But the working
folks aren`t taking it lying down. Chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic
Party joins me next with a major update on the effort to recall this
radical governor.


SCHULTZ: Finally tonight, we have an "Ed Show" exclusive out of
Wisconsin. The chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party will join me in
just a moment with new information on the effort to recall union busting
governor Scott Walker.

But first, I want to show you what Scott Walker`s Wisconsin looks like
today. Everybody in the media is talking about recall, recall, recall.
These people ought to be taken out back, this is wrong, this is not the
right thing to do. Wait a minute, hold, hold, hold, time-out. Wisconsin
leads the nation in cuts to education with $2.6 billion cut this year.
Now, if you lead the nation in something, you think people are going to be
talking about it?

Walker is cutting more than a half a billion dollars from Medicaid,
which could leave 65,000 people without health coverage, including 30,000
kids. Home for the holidays, huh?

Finally, Walker promised to create 250,000 jobs by 2015. He ain`t
going to get it done with these numbers. But this year his state leads the
nation in job losses. So when people say, well, why are they recalling
this guy? You think?

Wisconsin has lost jobs every month since the state legislature passed
Scott Walker`s budget. Now, I know that fact doesn`t qualify for FOX News,
but damn it, it`s out there and the people think that losing 9,700 jobs
last month in October is not a real good thing. This is why Walker is
being recalled.

So in the midst of all the conversation, recall, recall, recall,
everyone fired up about recalls, this is why they`re doing it. The guy
sucks. He`s terrible. The people in Wisconsin can`t stand this guy. He`s
going in the wrong direction, because the middle class in Wisconsin, it
used to be very strong, and now they`re out to prove that they still are.
And the governor is feeling the heat. He has already spent $2 million on
campaign commercials like this one featuring a teacher. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not big on recalls, and I think that at this
point, in my opinion, I`m only speaking for me, it feels a little like sour
grapes. It`s, you know, we didn`t get our way so we want to change the
outcome. The person that I`m going to stand behind and is going to get my
vote is the man or woman that says what they mean and means what they say,
and it`s not about being popular, it`s not about getting the votes. This
is what`s right. Scott Walker said from the beginning I`m going to do
what`s right for Wisconsin, and he did. He did.


SCHULTZ: Scott Walker did not do what`s right for Wisconsin. We
can`t be any more fair after me ripping on him and then playing that ad.
He did what`s right for the Koch brothers, and now he`s dealing with the

The recall effort I guess you could say is on a roll. With breaking
news on the recall tonight, we bring in Mike Tate, chairman of the
Wisconsin Democratic Party. Mike, good to have you with us tonight.
What`s the latest number? Where are you right now? How many days, how
many hours, how many signatures? Where are you?

tomorrow it will be two weeks so we`re 13 days in and tonight in
conjunction with our grassroots partner united Wisconsin we`re proud to
announce we`ve collected over 300,000 signatures in the first 13 days. We
average about 1,040 signatures per hour every hour of the day since we
started this recall. So we are off to a tremendous start, and we`re just
getting started.

SCHULTZ: So you`re well on your way to getting enough signatures
right now if you can keep the momentum. But you had the Thanksgiving
holiday. How much did that help?

TATE: The Thanksgiving holiday was tremendous for us. We, you know,
it`s the tradition gun deer hunt season here in Wisconsin. We were at deer
cleaning stations all over this state. We had a black Friday plan where
volunteers spread out and went to all the shopping malls and the Targets
and all the stores and got signatures from people waiting in line at
midnight to get into the stores. This -- we have over 20,000 volunteers
out getting signatures for us.

And I think it`s important to note, Ed, we aren`t paying anyone to
gather signatures. We have staff on the ground to help organize this.
This is a huge grassroots volunteer-led citizen-driven effort and we`re
just so excited about it.

SCHULTZ: The Republicans are crying foul about the Democratic
petition drives in front of stores on black Friday. They released this
statement, the Republicans did, "Wisconsin Democrats continue to show their
complete and utter lack of shame as they take their baseless recall effort
to the doorstep of private businesses, harassing their customers to engage
in what is nothing more than a selfish power play to suit the ends of
liberal special interests. Should petition gathers not leave the premises
upon request, we encourage businesses to contact their local law

What do you make of this outcry of the Republicans asking business
owners to call the cops on your people who are out there getting

TATE: Well, look, the Republicans have been running a campaign of
intimidation and fear and trying to scare people into both not helping us
get signatures and also not signing signatures. But, you know, the folks
from United Wisconsin and the Democratic Party and all of our allies are,
you know, we`re stronger than that, ed. The Republicans aren`t going to
scare us away from this recall. It`s too important.

SCHULTZ: Walker is already campaigning to keep his job. What do you
make of that? He`s feeling the pressure. The Democrats I understand
haven`t identified a challenger yet.

TATE: We haven`t and don`t plan on identifying a challenger until at
least January. Scott Walker in the last 13 days spent over $2 million on
television ads supporting him. I would be willing to bet he hasn`t moved
the needle one bit on support for him. This is a guy who has no faith in
the future of Wisconsin and absolutely must go.

SCHULTZ: So the word tonight, officially, you have just over 300,000
signatures for the recall effort. You need 540,000. So in 13 days it
sounds like you`re well on your way. Mike, good to have you with us
tonight. We`ll continue to follow the story.

That`s "The Ed Show." I`m Ed Schultz. You can listen to my radio show
on Sirius XM radio channel 127 Monday through Friday noon to 3:00 p.m. and
you can follow me on Twitter @EdShow and @WeGotEd. "THE RACHEL MADDOWS
SHOW" right now. Good evening, Rachel.


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