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The Ed Show for Friday, December 9

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Guests: Jack Jacobs, Byron Dorgan, Howard Dean, Joan Walsh, Ben Jealous, Mike Papantonio, Lizz Winstead

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

Newt Gingrich leads in just about every poll across the country, and
Mitt Romney and his goon squad are stepping up the attacks.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


NARRATOR: Newt has a ton of baggage, like the fact that Gingrich was
fined $300,000 for ethics violations.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The Republican assault on Newt Gingrich has
reached a fever pitch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seriously, I can`t stand Barack Obama -- but at
least he doesn`t trade in his wives like used cars.

SCHULTZ: The Iowa caucus is wide open, and we`re talking about it
with former Governor Howard Dean, former Senator Byron Dorgan, and
"Salon`s" Joan Walsh.

Rick Perry`s shockingly offensive ad is getting the parody it
deserves. Could it get him a win in Iowa?

in the pew every Sunday to know that there`s something wrong in this
country when gays can serve openly in the military.

SCHULTZ: "Ring of Fire" radio host Mike Papantonio and "Daily Show"
co-creator Lizz Winstead are here.

Donald Trump continues to embarrass himself and Republicans.

DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESSMAN: He didn`t kill bin Laden. He gets so much
credit for that.

SCHULTZ: Colonel Jack Jacobs will set the record straight.

And it`s one of the biggest Republican lies of all-time.

America`s biggest job creators are the last thing the economy needs.


SCHULTZ: Tonight, that myth is thoroughly debunked.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching. Republicans are wondering how in the world did this election get
out of control so quickly? The party has spent the last week trying to
stop the Donald Trump debate.

Newsmax says the debate is still happening on December 27th. And
today, GOP shill Sean Hannity tweeted "Trump`s debate for the candidates is
a go." OK, Sean.

Donald doesn`t sound optimistic. He ran to Don Imus to save some


DON IMUS: So, are you going to do a debate with just Gingrich and
Rick Santorum?

TRUMP: I don`t know. I have to look into it. I mean, I have to see.
They really want me to drop my status as a potential person to run as an


SCHULTZ: Of course, it wouldn`t be a Donald Trump interview without
taking shots at the candidates who rejected him. It`s your turn, Michele


TRUMP: You know who I`m very disappointed, Michele Bachmann. She`d
come up to see me four times, four times. She`d call me. She`d ask me for
advice. She said I should be her vice presidential -- you know, if she
wins, she`d like to think about me for the vice presidency.

IMUS: That would work.

TRUMP: She all -- you know, all of these things -- and most
importantly, I did like a two-hour phone call for her with her people.

IMUS: Wow.

TRUMP: And it caused me certain -- people said, you endorsing her?
The answer was no. After all of that, she just announced she`s not going
to do the debate. It`s unbelievable.

IMUS: I`m surprised --

TRUMP: It`s actually called loyalty.


SCHULTZ: Loyalty. They just can`t get along, can they?

Trump did enough damage to the Republican candidates this week. Now,
the candidates are taking serious aim at each other. An attack ad by Mitt
Romney`s political action committee was leaked to the Internet. It does
not go easy on Newt Gingrich.


NARRATOR: Newt has a ton of baggage, like the fact that Gingrich was
fined $300,000 for ethics violations or that he took at least $1.6 million
from Freddie Mac, just before it helped cause the economic meltdown. Then,
there`s the $37 million Gingrich took from health care and industry groups.

And on the issues, Newt`s been on all sides. He supports amnesty for
millions of illegal immigrants. Gingrich even teamed up with Nancy Pelosi
and Al Gore on global warming. And Newt was a longtime supporter of a
national health insurance mandate, the centerpiece of Obamacare.


SCHULTZ: Well, the Gingrich camp isn`t hitting back at Romney by
name. But Gingrich surrogates were quickly to defend their boss. His
press secretary dismissed the attack ad.

"This won`t be the first, this won`t be the last. There`s going to be
an awful lot of them and none of them are going to work."

Another Gingrich supporter from Iowa says, "It looks like a panic
attack. We understand a load of crap when we see it. That doesn`t win
caucuses or elections in Iowa."

Mitt Romney is pretending to be above the fray. He told reporters he
has no control over ads made by political action committees.


folks that are supporting me, I don`t write their script for them. I don`t
have any comment anything PACs are going to do or say.


SCHULTZ: Instead, Romney chose to take shots at Gingrich by embracing
Congressman Paul Ryan`s plan for Medicare and Social Security. And by
pointing out how Gingrich opposed the plan.


ROMNEY: This is a place where speaker Gingrich and I disagree. He
called this right wing social engineering. I believe it`s a very important
step to protect Medicare and to protect Social Security. We`re going to
have to make changes like the ones Paul Ryan proposed.


SCHULTZ: Romney`s camp is even running a web ad trashing Gingrich for
not being onboard with Ryan`s plan. The ad is direct from Romney, not a
political action committee.

Other candidates in conservative groups are starting to smell blood in
the water.

Ron Paul, he thinks he has a shot at the whole ball of wax including
Iowa. His campaign manager told "Politico," "Our campaign has a
comprehensive plan to win the delegates need to either secure the
nomination or enter into a brokered convention in Tampa." We can only hope
for that.

Part of his strategy is to draw a big bull`s-eye on Newt Gingrich with
ads like this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that Gingrich railed against when he
was in the House, he went the other way when he the got paid to two the
other way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s demonstrating himself to be the very essence
of the Washington insiders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s about serial hypocrisy.


SCHULTZ: Outside groups are starting to worry about Gingrich as well.
The ultraconservative Web site, World Net Daily, created a video attacking
Newt Gingrich for infidelity.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mothers and fathers of America, Newt and Callista
are the last role models we want our sons and daughters looking up to.
Seriously. I can`t stand Barack Obama, but at least he doesn`t trade in
his wives like used cars. Newt respects marriage about as much as Kim
Kardashian. That`s right. Newt Gingrich is a Kim Kardashian of the GOP.


SCHULTZ: Wow. That will follow the attacks on Newt Gingrich, calling
his morals into question might concern him the most. Here`s why: right
now, Gingrich is the choice of white evangelicals in Iowa by a large
margin. That`s a poll. What will happen to that support if opponents keep
attacking his moral failings?

The evangelical vote is very strong in numbers in Iowa. Newt Gingrich
doesn`t want to be left at the altar by conservatives come Election Day.

And there`s one other thing. How they poll and speak and decide face
to face is a totally different thing. They`re going to get together as
evangelicals and they`re going to look at one another and they`re going to
be in the same room and they`re going to find strength.

And then they`re going to ask themselves some very basic questions.
Who are we? And what do we stand for?

And then they`re going to think about Newt`s past, his ethic
violations, his being censored -- all of that stuff and his marriages.
Then it`s going to be a real tough call I think for evangelical Christians
in Iowa to really stand in front of their peers and say we think this guy
should be our candidate. It`s going to be interesting.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: will the Republican establishment take Newt
Gingrich down? Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. You can go to
our blog at And we`ll bring you the results later in the

I have a great group here with me tonight. Let`s bring former North
Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan. Also with us is former Vermont governor and
former DNC chairman Howard Dean. And Joan Walsh, editor at large,

Good to have you with us.

Senator Dorgan, the Romney camp is depicting Newt Gingrich as
untrustworthy and self-serving. Is that a stretch, or is that the guy you

BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: You know, I served with him when I
was in U.S. House for a number of years, and I know a lot about Newt
Gingrich. These are tough times for the country. We need serious people
running for president who have real solutions for the country.

What I know about Speaker Gingrich, at least a couple of things, to me
at least, would have disqualified someone running for president. I`m
talking about after I left the house, went to the Senate, he became
speaker, he was fined $300,000 by the ethics committee of the House for
ethical sanctions. He was sanctioned by the committee.

And the other thing about Speaker Gingrich is, and I`ve kept this on
my desk, Ed, if we have a minute. This is from the early 1990s and it
always disqualified Newt in my mind. He wrote a letter to Republicans
across the country and said -- he was the president of GOPAC. He said, we
poll-tested focus groups and tested language. He said, people say I wish I
could speak like Newt so here`s your chance.

It says here`s a way to describe opponents and their records and the
other political party. Newt says, when you`re describing your opponent,
use words like sick, pathetic, lie, betray, traitors, corrupt, shame,
disgrace, anti-flag, anti-family, anti-jobs. That is unbelievable. I
would disown a Democrat if they ever suggested that. It is the bottom
feeding of American politics.

And people say, where did all this rancid unbelievable anger in
politics come from where you disrespect everybody? Here`s where it
started. And in my judgment, it`s just disqualifying. It comes from the
pen and signature of Newt Gingrich.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, you`ve been down this road before with Newt
Gingrich. What`s the last month going to be like in Iowa for this crowd?

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: It`s going to be pretty tough for
everybody. The fundamental problem is that Newt is the flavor of the month
because nobody wants to nominate Mitt Romney. That`s going to be a cross
he has to bear.

I think he`s doing himself some damage. I still think he`s most
likely to end up being the nominee. For him to embrace Paul Ryan`s plan
which essentially gets rid of Medicare is going to -- that`s going to be a
disastrous attack ad against him in the general election.

I have never seen a Republican primary like this. Usually they`re
much more disciplined than we are. I was the butt of where Newt Gingrich
is right now eight years ago when the guys were jumping on me because I was
the leader at that time. It doesn`t do the party good to have a knockdown,
drag-out brawl and talk about ethics violation and serial wives.

I mean, I`m shocked by the stuff. I thought it was bad I was put in
an ad with Osama bin Laden. That looks mild compared to this Republican


SCHULTZ: Joan Walsh, there`s a debate tomorrow night. Will Mitt
Romney deliver these attacks to Newt Gingrich`s face? What do you think?

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: I think he will. You know, I kind of think he
has to.

But I don`t know, Ed. You and I have talked about how he needed to go
on the offensive. But I guess we should have said if he could do it
effectively. I can`t believe how ineffectively he`s done it in the last
couple days.

I mean, Governor Dean is right. This Medicare stand is a gift to
Barack Obama. It`s a gift to the Democrats.

And also, hitting him on his marriages and his conversion to
Catholicism -- I have no sympathy for Newt Gingrich, but that`s pretty low,
too. And it`s also from a guy Mitt Romney, who should really want to stay
away from the issue of religion because he faces, let`s admit it, certain
kind of prejudice there, too.

So, to play the religion card when he`s having it played against him,
it just looks like he`ll do anything to get elected and it really hurts him
if he does emerge as the Republican nominee.

SCHULTZ: Well, Governor Dean, let me ask you about Iowa, from what
you know on that state from the campaigning you did years ago. These
evangelical Christians, when they get in a room, are they going to go as
they are polled or stand face to face and ask the questions, as I said
earlier, who are we, what do we stand for? And not be embarrassed by their
peers and pick the moral candidate? What about that?

DEAN: Well, one of the things I`ve learned over the last few months
is the rules in the Republican caucus are different than in the Democratic
caucus. You`re all used to cover the Democratic caucus because that was
the high profile race in the last two cycles. They get a secret ballot.
We don`t. So, they don`t actually have to face their peers and say what
they`re doing. It`s a secret ballot.

So, anything can happen. Anything can happen. I have no idea how
this race is going to turn out. But it has gotten very bloody very
quickly. And I don`t think anybody is going to be spared because when you
do run these kinds of ads, which are just absolute flame thrower ads, you
knock yourself down as much as you knock the other guy down.

SCHULTZ: What about --

DEAN: Even though Mitt says this is not PAC, I don`t have anything to
do with this, people don`t believe that. People are going to believe those
ads were put together by Mitt Romney and he`s going to get the blame for

SCHULTZ: Can Romney recover, Senator Dorgan?

DORGAN: Well, I don`t know. This is unbelievably difficult. It
seems to me, a lot of negative ads -- negatives sell. We know that.
That`s why people use them because they work.

And this would probably be entertaining were it not we`re talking
about who`s going to lead the most important country in the world. And I
think Governor Dean is right. I don`t think any of us have any
understanding of what might happen.

There`s been a flavor of the month club. And now, Newt Gingrich is in
the lead in the polls. Somebody once said his baggage has baggage.
There`s certainly plenty of hooks here for people to attack him.

But I don`t think any of us know what`s going to happen.

SCHULTZ: But he has the political savvy and moxy to keep this lead.

DORGAN: He does have that.

SCHULTZ: Do you agree with that, Senator?

DORGAN: Well, he`s very smart. The fact is I don`t think he has good
judgment. But he`s smart. He also has a habit and history of, you know,
of exploding, you know, imploding himself. I mean, he causes his own
problems. I think everyone thinks at some point he`s going to be Newt and
say what he thinks about something that`s way off the surface of the planet
and that will be the end of it.

SCHULTZ: So, Joan Walsh, it comes down to discipline for Newt
Gingrich at this point. He`s impulsive, he shoots from the hip. I
described him last night as a guy who basically like a blender with the top
off going full speed, you really never know what this guy is going to do.
Can he hold it together? What do you think?

WALSH: You know, I guess his staff and Callista have to keep him on a
short leash. But Newt is such an egomaniac, that I think Newt thinks being
Newt ultimately is going to lead to love. It never does. To know him is
not to love him, as Senator Dorgan knows so well.

So it`s going to be an interesting few weeks. People in Iowa are
going to get to know him more, whether he goes off, we don`t know. But I
don`t know. I still don`t think he`s going to wear that well. I`ve been
saying that a couple weeks, Ed. I could be wrong. But there`s something
really off about this picture.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, a brokered convention. Put a percentage on
it. What do you think?

DEAN: I think it`s pretty close to zero. I was nervous about that in
`08, and I was planning on it in `04 just because you got to plan for the
worst and hope for the best. We haven`t had a brokered convention I think
for, gosh, I don`t know 60 or 70 years in this country. I doubt it very

They have changed the Republican rules. We`re not going to decide --
they`re not going to decide who their nominee is until much, much later
than usual. But I`d be shocked if it went all the way to the convention.
It could. You got six or seven people in the thing in double digits. It


DORGAN: I think for the first time in a long time, it could. We`ve
not seen this possibility for so many years. So, the one thing that`s
certain, Ed, is the Republicans aren`t going to consult any of the three of
us or you about what they ought to be doing.

DEAN: That`s true.

SCHULTZ: Well, they should, because we`d be running a heck of a lot
different campaign from what they`re doing. That`s for sure.

Byron Dorgan, Howard Dean, Joan Walsh -- always a pleasure. Great to
have you with us tonight.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what you

Donald Trump says President Obama has gotten too much credit for
killing Osama bin Laden, but Trump doesn`t know what he`s talking about.

It`s an all-out assault on democracy in the state of Michigan. Ben
Jealous of NAACP and Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee will weigh in on what
is a very tough fight for the state of Michigan.

You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us. We`re right


SCHULTZ: Coming up, Donald Trump thinks he knows military strategy.
I`ll talk to someone who actually does. Colonel Jack Jacobs is next.

And Trump`s not the only one refusing to give President Obama credit
for taking out Osama bin Laden. Wait until you hear what Sean Hannity has
to say.

And, of course, it`s one of the GOP`s go-to talking points. You can`t
raise taxes on the job creators. But those job creators don`t think it`s
such a big deal.

Share your thoughts on Twitter using #EdShow. We`re featuring your
tweets throughout the show.

Stay tuned. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

The great Donald Trump has declared President Obama is getting too
much credit for killing Osama bin Laden.


TRUMP: But I don`t know why Obama gets credit for the whole bin Laden
thing. He`s sitting there. He`s got three choices. Leave them alone,
which nobody would do, take him out with a missile or take him out with the
military. He said, take him out with the military. OK. Congratulations.

The military did an incredible job. And they called him and they
said, we have him. He said, go get him.

What`s he going to say? Don`t get him? He gets all this credit.
It`s a lot of crap.

Look, he happened to be sitting in the Oval Office and the generals
called up and said, we have him.

Why does Obama get credit when he had to make a decision? OK, go get
him. Now, who`s not going to make that decision?


SCHULTZ: Donald Trump doesn`t know what he`s talking about, again.
The decision to go in and get bin Laden with Navy SEALs instead of bombing
the compound was one of the gutsier presidential decisions in modern

And by way, when another bad guy, Libyan President Moammar Gadhafi was
having a problem finding a place to stay during his U.N. visit in 2009, it
was Trump who rented him property so he could pitch his tent. It was only
stopped when outrage mounted. Of course, President Obama played a big role
in ultimately getting rid of Gadhafi as well.

The president doesn`t go around taking credit he deserves for bin
Laden unless he is pushed.


the 22 out of 30 top al Qaeda leaders who have been taken off the field
whether I engage in appeasement. Or whoever`s left out there, ask them
about that.


SCHULTZ: You know what President Obama was doing right there? He was
respecting the troops for putting their lives on the line after taking an
order. That`s respecting the troops, that answer.

Today, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney defended the president`s


JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He was answering a question
about a charge that he had somehow acted as an appeaser in the conduct of
his foreign policy. And I think it was an appropriate response. Let us
know if you get an answer from those gentlemen.


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is retired United States Army Colonel Jack
Jacobs, and a MSNBC military analyst.

Great to have you with us, Colonel.


SCHULTZ: Appeasement -- is that the right word here?

JACOBS: No, probably not. I mean, you can a lot of make arguments
about whether or not we should pull troops out, leave them there, and so
on. But the decision had already been made.

But the thing about Obama is really -- it`s, you know, I`m an equal
opportunity castigator. I think sometimes I can heap invective on just
about anybody. But the decision to go after bin Laden inside Pakistan, as
you suggested, was an extremely tough one.

And I`m not convinced everybody, no matter how tough they are, would
have made the same decision. It could have done nothing. Of course, we`ve
done plenty of nothing for a long period of time. Had plenty of
opportunity to get him, a couple at least I could think of and decided we
wouldn`t go after him.

Yes, you could put a large yield, a number of large yield precision
guided munitions on top of the compounds. As a matter of fact, the
secretary of defense argued that`s what should have been done. We wouldn`t
have received, got, collected any of the intelligence we subsequently have
used and we continue to use in order to get the remainder of al Qaeda in
the Taliban. We would not have had that.

SCHULTZ: I just can`t allow the narrative to go unchallenged that
President Obama doesn`t -- or he`s getting too much credit for this. I
want your professional take. Where`s the credit lie?

JACOBS: No, no, of course, it goes to the troops, the brave troops
who went in and supported it. But the decision to choose between dropping
a bomb, which would have yielded no intelligence, and risking failure,
tremendous possibility of failure by getting brave troops to go in there
and knock off Osama bin Laden and then collect up 100 thumb drives and all
the other -- that`s a very, very tough decision.

SCHULTZ: What would you care this decision to?

JACOBS: Well, there are lots of opportunities to compare this. The
Second World War was loaded with them. The Rangers at Ponto Vach (ph).
The Rangers, again, in the Philippines, at the POW camp at Cabanatuan. The
11th Airborne Division jumping into Los Banos, again, to free American

There are lots of opportunities to compare it. And I think it
compares very well. Listen, it`s it`s a tough decision.

I think if I were in the same position and somebody said, you can risk
everything by ordering the troops to go in there so we can get the
intelligence, or drop a bomb, you know, I`d be hard pressed.

SCHULTZ: Does Trump know what he`s talking about?

JACOBS: No, no, he has no idea. I mean, he spent his time marching
around in the military high school and that`s the extent of his military
experience. He`s either remembering that or he`s poorly advised. He has
no idea what he`s talking about.

SCHULTZ: Finding bin Laden in the first place -- I mean, there was a
time when we had backed off and disband the unit. Had it not been for
President Obama refocusing, we may not have gotten him.

JACOBS: Well, it`s really kind of interesting. The fact of the
matter, like I said, I heap invective on just about anybody. And finding
praise is occasionally difficult for Jack Jacobs.

So, I`ve got to say, we launched more predator strikes in Obama`s
first month in office than George W. Bush had his entire administration.
And like the president was suggesting, you don`t want to be number two or
number three in the bad guy chain of command because we`re going to drop a
bomb on you.

SCHULTZ: What did you make of the president`s response when he was
called an appeaser and the way he came back?

JACOBS: Well, I think it was very gentlemanly, especially in view of
the emotion-charged campaign we`re in the middle of. I thought it was very

SCHULTZ: And the troops know what this means.

JACOBS: No, sure. Sure, they do.

SCHULTZ: And Donald Trump doesn`t.

JACOBS: No, no, no, Donald Trump`s never spent a minute on active
duty, in uniform, doesn`t know what he`s talking about militarily.

SCHULTZ: Colonel Jack Jacobs, great to have you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.

Next in "Psychotalk," the right wing lies about killing bin Laden,
they just keep piling up. Sean Hannity wants to give all the credit to
President Bush? But Bush didn`t care about finding bin laden. We got the
tape to prove it.

Republicans love to say you can`t raise taxes on the job creators, but
when Republican House and Senate offices were asked to offer up some job
creators that would back that statement up, they came up empty handed.
Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, Mr. intellectual honesty, Sean
Hannity, well, he served up another dandy. Anybody who says Fox News
doesn`t lie needs to listen up. Here`s what happened last night when Joe
Trippi had the audacity to give President Obama credit for killing Osama
bin Laden.


JOE TRIPPI, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Where is Osama bin Laden? Barack
Obama getting Osama bin Laden --


TRIPPI: Exactly. And intelligence that George Bush built up.
Busting that porn king Osama bin Laden was huge. That`s the story of the

HANNITY: You give credit to Bush. Because if Obama had his way, we
wouldn`t have gotten bin Laden.


SCHULTZ: If Obama had gotten his way, we wouldn`t have gotten bin
Laden? Did I hear that? Well, in 2008, candidate Obama explained his way.


We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security


SCHULTZ: In 2009, President Obama ordered the CIA to prioritize
killing bin Laden. In 2011, the commander in chief, Obama, ordered the
mission that killed Osama bin Laden.

President Obama got his way and he got bin Laden. Hannity`s pal, W.,
well, he gave up on finding bin Laden six months after 9/11.


where he is, nor -- I just don`t spend that much time on him, to be honest
with you. We hadn`t heard much from him. And I wouldn`t necessarily say
he`s at the center of any command structure.

And, you know, again, I don`t know where he is. I -- I -- I repeat
what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.


SCHULTZ: Bush wasn`t concerned, but his administration was. They
said letting bin Laden slip through their fingers in Tora Bora in late 2001
was their, quote, "gravest error in the war against al Qaeda."

But By 2006, they all gave up and closed the CIA unit in charge of
hunting bin Laden. It took President Obama to refocus on the mission by
doing things his way. And how did that thing work out again?


OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden and the 22 out of 30 top al Qaeda leaders
who have been taken off the field.


SCHULTZ: Bingo. So for Sean Hannity to say we wouldn`t have gotten
bin Laden if Obama had gotten his way is actually intellectually dishonest
Psycho Talk.

A government takeover in Michigan is under way. Will the Justice
Department intervene? Ben Jealous of the NAACP and Congresswoman Sheila
Jackson Lee will join me on this powerful story.

And Rick Perry`s deep brain freeze continues. See what he can`t
remember this time around. Mike Papantonio and Lizz Winstead will weigh in
on that and a whole lot more. You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay
with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Thanks for watching tonight.
Please pay attention to this story. I think it is huge. It`s an all-out
assault on democracy in the United States of America. And it is happening
in Michigan.

Four cash strapped cities and one school district are currently under,
listen to me, state control. They call the shots. The city of Detroit and
their town of Inkster may be next. If that happens, half of Michigan`s
African-American population will have no democratically elected local

Instead, the citizens will be living under state appointed emergency
managers, a person who has the authority to kill collective bargaining
agreements, sell off assets, fire workers, shut down the police and fire
departments, stuff like that, with no say from the citizens.

Detroit is currently under financial review, is what they call it.
Mayor Dave Bing says that he believes that the city and the unions can work
out a deal and avoid a big government takeover. We`ll see.

Meanwhile, state lawmakers are worried that the emergency manager law
could be halted by a ballot drive. Organizers say that they are close to
getting the necessary signatures to turn this all around.

So, of course, Governor Rick Snyder and Republican lawmakers are
figuring out a plan B. There`s always plan b, this time to continue
disenfranchising citizens. A spokesperson for the state House speaker says
"chaos could ensue" if emergency manager law is suspended.

That`s pretty dangerous, I think. That`s dangerous rhetoric. I`m
joined tonight by Ben Jealous, president and CEO of the NAACP. Also with
us, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas, who serves on the House
Judiciary Committee.

Let`s go to you first, congresswoman. What about the House Judiciary
Committee, the Justice Department looking into first the constitutionality,
the legality of this law that is taking place, and disenfranchising so many
people in Michigan? Where does this stand?

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), MICHIGAN: Well, first of all, I join my
ranking member, my colleague, John Conyers, the representative from
Detroit, in asking the attorney general to question the constitutionality
of this runaway law. Under Article 4, Section 4, we are owed an obligation
to have a democracy of which we can vote on our duly chosen candidates.

But this is a runaway opportunity to diminish minority voting power in
particular, because of the predominance of this process on predominantly
African-American communities, including Detroit.

I agree with Mayor Bing that he can get this done. This is union
busting, but it is more than that. It is job busting. I hope that many of
your viewers will realize that when you go into conservatorship, you`re
still paying money, huge dollars, to someone called a conservator. And
frankly, that relieves the state of Texas -- excuse me, the state of
Michigan -- we have a situation like that in Texas.

But the state of Michigan from paying their due responsibility to
Detroit. Let me just say this one point. The state of Michigan had a deal
with the city of Detroit. They indicated that they would pay them 330
million dollars if they reduced their income tax. If they kept their
promise, the state -- the city of Detroit would have this ongoing fund.

They broke that deal and they lowered the amount of payments to
Detroit to 220 million. They put them in this fix, among many other
circumstances. So what I would say is, they`re stealing the government.
They`re squashing democracy. And they`re diminishing the African-American

We have to determine if it`s constitutional. I believe it may be
unconstitutional and a violation of the Voting Rights Act.

SCHULTZ: The Justice Department is reviewing the law, as we`re told
tonight. All right, Ben Jealous, what does this mean to the vote?

BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: Look, this is shortsighted.
It`s destructive. It`s part of a pattern that we see going on across the
country, with people really coming after people`s basic right to vote.

This is a path of bullies and cowards. In this country, we believe
wholeheartedly in informed debate. I`ve got an idea. You`ve got an idea.
Let`s hash it out and let`s figure it out. Let`s not go after your right
to vote. Let`s not go after your -- you know, your basic power as citizens
to choose who leads you. It`s deeply disturbing.

SCHULTZ: What`s your response when they say -- Republicans say that
chaos could ensue?

JEALOUS: That sort of rhetoric, given our urban history, is very
dangerous, very loaded rhetoric that they should really stay away from. As
you get back to the table, let`s hash this out. Let`s debate the issues.
Let`s let the people who the -- the people of Detroit have chosen to lead
them, lead them out of this mess.

SCHULTZ: I have talked to some faith leaders in Michigan from a
number of different communities. They are concerned that there are white
communities in Michigan that have financial problems. And yet they have
not had the emergency financial manager law put on them. What`s going on

JEALOUS: Well, you know, you saw the city of Inkster come up. And
you know, Inkster has a notorious history. It`s right next to Dearborn.
The two names were chosen intentionally. Inkster for the black folks,
Dearborn for the white folks.

This is a state with very troubling racial past. I think it`s right
for people to question whether or not white communities would be treated
this way, so cavalierly.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, how fast can the Justice Department work on
this? And how fast can they move on this? Can they do some type of
injunction? What do you think?

LEE: Actually, they can move pretty fast. They can do a review but
also question the state and, in essence, put the state on a halt, if you
will. They can go into court and seek an immediate injunction. But they
can also say to the governor that you are looking as if you are violating
the Voter Rights Act. But more importantly, this law appears to be
unconstitutional. We`re asking you to cease and desist. We have this
under review and ask you not to proceed.

And if necessary, the Justice Department can immediately file a
lawsuit and, again, seek an injunction. The key here, Ed, is what
President Jealous has indicated. The NAACP has been a champion on opposing
voter suppression laws.

But it`s a pattern, Ed. It`s systemic. The reason why I slipped up
and used the terminology Texas, because we have the same situation by
closing the last remaining majority African-American school district, the
North Forrest Independent School District.

In that district, not only are there children, parents, taxpayers, but
there are also duly elected officials that voters selected. Now Voters can
choose to unelect those persons, choose someone else that they think might
be better financial managers.

But you can`t eliminate their right to choose. This is what the
Republicans are trying to do across the nation. It`s totally eliminate
minority voters` right to choose and to even enter into the voting box.
That has to be patently unconstitutional.

SCHULTZ: So our audience completely understands here, when you have
an emergency financial manager come in, he has all power. He has all power
on how votes are counted, how the process is done and everything else.

Congresswoman, thanks for joining us tonight. Ben Jealous, I want to
ask you about tomorrow here in New York City.

JEALOUS: That`s right, Stand for Freedom. This is a huge rally.
It`s a march from the Koch Brothers` headquarters at 61st and Madison, down
to the U.N. It starts at 11:30. The rally at the U.N. starts at 1:00.
It`s on this issue of voter suppression.

This year, we have seen the right to vote attacked more viciously,
state by state, than we have seen for 100 years. It`s time for us to stand
up and demand that we --

SCHULTZ: Makes you ask the question, which way are we going? Ben
Jealous, thanks for joining us tonight. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee
as well. Thank you so much.

Republicans refuse to raise taxes on the job creators, but they say it
will stunt job growth. Well, NPR talked to some of those job creators and
they say that`s not the case. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Thanks for watching tonight. Now, the Republicans, they
have a way with words, don`t they? Republicans love to say, we can`t tax
the job creators.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Tax hikes on families and job
creators would only make things worse.

Tax increases destroy jobs.

America`s biggest job creators are the last thing the economy needs to get
back on track.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: Tries to build support for punitive
tax hikes on job creators.

When we tax our job creators more than they tax theirs, we lose, they

overtax those job creators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You raise taxes on your job creators, and you have
less jobs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To raise taxes on the job creators in this country
just hurts our jobs market and our economy even more so.

BUSH: So when you run up the taxes like that, you`re taxing job
creators. That`s not how you keep jobs here.


SCHULTZ: That bullet point`s been around for a long time, hasn`t it?
It comes up again because the Senate rejected an extension of the payroll
tax cut for a second time. Republicans blocked it because it would be paid
for by a surtax on millionaires. Republicans say it`s a tax on job

So NPR, National Public Radio, went looking for these job creators.
They asked Republican congressional offices to direct them to some business
owners who would be effected by the millionaires` surtax.

Not one person was offered as an example. Then NPR asked for help
from business groups opposing the surtax. Even business groups couldn`t
offer any of these job creators.

Finally, NPR went on Facebook. What they found were some business
owners who said the tax rates did not effect hiring decisions.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not in the top 20 things that we think about
when we`re making a business hire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If my taxes go up, I have slightly less disposable
income, yes, but that has nothing to do with what my business does. What
my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for
its services.


SCHULTZ: So finally, NPR went to Republican South Dakota Senator John
Thune who said it was a bad idea to tax job creators.


SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: Those, I would say, were
exceptions to the rule. I think most small business owners who are out
there right now would argue that raising their taxes has the opposite
effect we would want to have in a down economy.


SCHULTZ: It is one of the great Republican lies. Taxing millionaires
is a tax on job creators and it effects their hiring decisions, simply not
true. They hire and fire people based on all kinds of considerations, not
because of a millionaire surtax.

Another oops moment for Rick Perry. This time he flubs the name of a
Supreme Court justice. We have the tape. You won`t want to miss it.
That`s next.


SCHULTZ: THE ED SHOW survey tonight, I asked you, will the Republican
establishment take Newt Gingrich down? Seventy three percent of you said
yes; 27 percent of you said no.

Up next, Mike Papantonio and Lizz Winstead on Rick Perry, Donald Trump
and the rest of the GOP three-ring circus. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And of course, Rick Perry rails against activist judges.
Too bad he can`t remember their names. Earlier, Perry sat down with the
editorial board of "the Des Moines Register." And let`s just say things
didn`t go real well for the Texas governor, particularly when Perry
criticized President Obama`s Supreme Court picks, but forgot the name of
Justice Sonia Sotomayor.


PERRY: When you see his appointment of two -- from my perspective,
inarguably activist judges, whether it was -- not Matamyor (ph)?


PERRY: Sotomayor and Kagan, who are both activist judges.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Mike Papantonio, host of "The Ring of Fire"
radio show, and Lizz Winstead, co-creator of "the Daily Show" and author of
the upcoming book "Lizz Free or Die."

Lizz, I have to ask you now, scoring the tape, how does that compare
to Herman Cain`s dance in front of the editorial board in Wisconsin?

LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: Well, you know, he`s just sad. Herman Cain
at least -- he has this weird courage of conviction with his idiocy. And
Rick Perry just seems sad at this point. Just want to say, why don`t you
just go home? Because you still have family who like you there.

You know, I do want to say in his defense, he can name all of the
Brady Bunch kids.

SCHULTZ: Yes, he can.

WINSTEAD: So that`s really good.

SCHULTZ: Here`s another one for you, Mike. He says that there were
only eight Supreme Court justices. I mean, what`s with this guy?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Ed, I`m certain when you stand
too close to Rick Perry, you can hear the sound of the ocean coming from
his head. That`s the problem here. It`s almost like we have too many
freaks and not enough circuses in this whole Republican thing.

I would imagine if we went back and we looked at Rick Perry`s scores
in political science, his tests in political science when he was a Texas
Aggie, you`d see the names where he filled in for the Supreme Court,
Sneezy, Sleepy, Dopey and Grumpy.

The problem is -- and this is inescapable. This is a guy who probably
sits at home watches the "Three Stooges" reruns and takes notes so he can
figure out what he`s going to say tomorrow. Every day is just a bigger day
for Rick Perry.

You know, the sad part about it is, he is the new voice and he is the
new image of the Tea Party GOP.

SCHULTZ: No doubt.

PAPANTONIO: And they can`t get away from him.

WINSTEAD: What`s so crazy, like, who is still supporting him? I
mean, it`s clear I think to everyone to America besides maybe Bobby Jindal
and a couple of racist ranchers in Texas that this guy couldn`t complete
the TV Guide crossword puzzle. He`d stare at it like a freak and go, blank
Gaga, help me. At this point I can`t. Go home.

SCHULTZ: A lot of folks are spoofing Perry`s war on religion ad
attacking gays. Here`s one that caught our attention. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not ashamed to admit that I`m ignorant, but
you don`t have to have my low I.Q. to know that there`s something is wrong
in this country when a guy can come out with a super anti-gay campaign ad,
only to find out on the inter-webs that he was wearing the jacket from
"Brokeback Mountain."

As president, I`ll end Obama`s war on time travel, fight to stop my
hilarious self-contradiction, find Lady Gaga and convince her to become a
lawyer and stop Ryan Murphy from creating "Glee."

I`m Rick Perry, and I`m wearing the jacket again, aren`t I? Damn it.


SCHULTZ: Lizz, you got to take this guy on the road with you.

WINSTEAD: You know, I don`t gays should even be able to openly
celebrate Christmas, quite frankly. I think that`s where we need to be
going with this. At what point -- what are conservatives going to do when
the military doesn`t just turn into one big Cher video? Honestly, what are
they going to do?

SCHULTZ: I have no idea.

WINSTEAD: I don`t either.

SCHULTZ: Shifting gears, let`s go to Donald Trump quickly. Mike, two
people at the debate for Newsmax. Is it going to happen?

PAPANTONIO: Look, already he`s embarrassed. He`s apologizing because
he`s embarrassed. This is guy who doesn`t embarrass easily. He has this
long history of embarrassing himself. Maybe after three bankruptcies, he
should be embarrassed. Maybe after the fact that he learns he has an 18
percent approval rating with the public, he should be embarrassed.

Maybe after 65 years of real, real bad hair days, he should be
embarrassed. Maybe after humiliating himself in the clownish kind of
presidential run, he should be embarrassed. But I think what happens is a
guy like Trump build an embarrassment threshold and it`s just a big --


SCHULTZ: It doesn`t matter. Everything`s over the dam. It really
doesn`t matter at this point. Mike Papantonio, Lizz Winstead, great to
have you with us on this Friday evening.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz.

Rachel Maddow, he show starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. I hope you have a
great weekend, my friend.

SCHULTZ: I hope so, too. You as well. Thanks.


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