updated 1/17/2012 12:08:15 PM ET 2012-01-17T17:08:15

Guests: Eugene Robinson, Richard Wolffe, Laura Flanders; Krystal Ball; Linda Cook; Sara Ferguson; Mike Tate
Lena Taylor

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Americans, and welcome to "the Ed
Show" tonight, live from New York.

Moments ago, the final five Republican presidential candidates battled it
out in a FOX News debate. Newt Gingrich thrilled the crowd by doubling
down on his food stamp comments and attacking one of the moderators.

Mitt Romney`s opponents piled on about super PACs and Ron Paul thinks he
can run the country, run the country with a zero percent tax rate? I want
to see that. These guys are as radical as ever.

This is "the Ed Show." Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: You recently said that black
Americans should demand jobs, not food stamps. You also said that poor
kids lack a strong work ethic and proposed having them as work as janitors
in their schools. Can`t you see this is viewed at a minimum as insulting
to all Americans but particularly to black Americans?

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. I don`t see that.

WILLIAMS: My e-mail account, my twitter account, has been inundated with
people of all races who are asking if your comments are not intended to
belittle the poor and racial minorities. You saw some of this reaction
during your visit to a black church in South Carolina. It sounds as if you
are seeking to belittle people.

GINGRICH: First of all, Juan, the fact is that more people have been put
on food stamps by Barack Obama than any president in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.
And you wonder why we ask the question on this program, from time to time,
does the Republican Party have a problem with race?

Crowd reactions have been a major story of the Republican debates. As you
just saw the conservative South Carolina debate crowd heavily booed the
black moderator, Juan Williams, and gave Newt Gingrich a standing ovation
for going after him. Newt whipped the crowd into a frenzy by ramping up
his attack on welfare recipients. Tonight the candidates gave the audience
red meat by the bucket full.

I`m joined tonight by our panel, Democratic strategist Krystal Ball, free
speech TV host Laura Flanders, MSNBC political analyst and "Washington
Post" columnist Eugene Robinson, and MSNBC political analyst, Richard
Wolffe.

Great to have all of you with us tonight.

Richard, let me go to you first. Your thoughts? I thought that tonight
they came after Mitt Romney in a big way on taxes and also his job record.
And I must say, I thought he was well prepared and fenced it off pretty
well, your thoughts?

RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they certainly came after
Mitt Romney right out of the gate there. But I thought his response on
taxes, on the tax returns question was terrible. He stammered his way
through it. He`s trying to project leadership and that he can be president
and his best answer on releasing his own tax returns was "time will tell."
Probably April, who knows?

You know, this is not a confident position for someone who should have been
seen this one coming and is going to face this question again and again if
his tax returns ever come out.

SCHULTZ: Well, Rick Perry, governor from Texas, knows pretty much he`s
probably not going to win this thing, so he thought he`d go on the
offensive with Mitt Romney when it came to taxes. Here`s the question that
we`re talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My income tax have been out
every year and Newt, I think you`re going to let your income tax come out
Thursday. And Mitt, we need for you to release your income tax so the
people of this country can see how you made your money.

As Republicans, we cannot fire our nominee in September. We need to know
now. So I hope you`ll put your tax records out there this week so the
people of South Carolina can take a look and decide if you know we`ve got a
flawed candidate or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Laura Flanders, is this the best we`re going to get out of Mitt
Romney up until tax day?

LAURA FLANDERS, HOST, FREE SPEECH TV: It probably is. He sounded like one
of those dieters. Maybe in April, maybe in June, we`ll just see. But
really, this was all about looking presidential in this discussion. And
Romney did flub, I think, that answer. And frankly, in South Carolina, if
looking presidential is talking up state`s right and the food stamp up
president have beating up on a black man, it was really Gingrich I think
who got a bump public coming out of today`s debate.

SCHULTZ: Here`s Romney`s response. He`ll probably release his taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`ve looked at what`s been
done in campaigns in the past with senator McCain and George W. Bush and
others. They`ve tended to release tax records in April or tax season. If
that`s been the tax tradition, I`m not opposed to doing that. Time will
tell. But I anticipate that most likely I`m going to get asked to do that
around the April time period and I`ll keep that open.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor, you will plan, then, to release your tax
income records around April?

ROMNEY: I think I`ve heard enough from folks saying, look, let`s see your
tax records. I have nothing in them to suggest there`s any problem and I`m
happy to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Gene Robinson, does this put this issue finally to sleep for a
while, anyway?

EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: It doesn`t put it to sleep
really, Ed. But I think he did OK on that question. I don`t think he
really blew it. They didn`t press him that much on it.

Really, the only people who laid a glove on Romney in this debate were
Jerry of the "Wall Street Journal" who asked him a pretty tough Bain
capital question and Juan Williams did ask him an immigration question that
kind of put him in a spot.

But I thought part of the story of tonight`s debate was that the other
candidates didn`t really go for the jugular on Romney, at least, the way
they might have. They kind of went after each other.

SCHULTZ: I think you`re correct there. I agree with you. Romney says he
created 120,000 jobs. He`s been asked to document the 100,000 jobs that
he`s created. Now it`s up to 120,000. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Four of the companies that we invested in, they weren`t businesses
I ran, but we invested in, ended up today having some 120,000 jobs. Some
of the businesses we invested in weren`t successful and lost jobs. And I`m
very proud of the fact that we learned from the experience. We invested in
well over 100 different businesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Krystal Ball, do the numbers work?

KRYSTAL BALL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, no, they don`t. I love the way
that he loves to enumerate the 120,000 jobs that occurred after he was at
Bain, over the course of the entire company`s lifetime, and doesn`t get
into the specifics about any of the jobs that were lost or any of the
bankruptcies. It`s fuzzy math in the word of a past presidential
candidate.

FLANDERS: What about the part where he says, you know, they didn`t
actually lay anybody off in that paper mill. They just moved them from
nonunion jobs to union jobs.

BALL: Right, in Indiana. I`m sure that comforts the people in South
Carolina. And honestly, he had to get into the weeds of what happened at
each of these companies, and I don`t think that`s a good place for him to
be.

Overall, I agree with you. I think he came out of this debate OK, not
really bloodied, but having to get into the specifics of each of these
companies is not something he`s going to want to have to do in the general
election.

SCHULTZ: What about specifics, Richard Wolffe? How did he handle the
jobs? Now we got it, we`re up to 120,000 jobs without a whole lot of
documentation. What about it?

WOLFFE: Well, previously it had just been thousands. His wording actually
was pretty clever and concise in the sense that he was being very
legalistic. He said he invested in some companies and the companies then
created those jobs well before he just said, I helped create 100,000 jobs.

So, you`re seeing him trying to revise and clean up the record there. But
on specifics, when he went after the president, he made a major mistake.
He said that the president has not opened up any new markets for this
country. What happened to the three free trade deals that the president
just pushed through Congress and signed into law?

You know, that`s the kind of mistake that, frankly, had another candidate
done this, that people would have been writing, he doesn`t know his stuff,
he hasn`t done his homework. For Mitt Romney, the guy who knows about
business and trade to make that mistake, I think, was pretty amateurish.

FLANDERS: And was that a swipe to say that Barack Obama has not come up
with a jobs plan? What`s the jobs bill?

SCHULTZ: They all say that. I mean, they just constantly say, he hasn`t
done anything about jobs, and if you say it enough, maybe some people are
going to believe it.

I felt that the conversation between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich going
back and forth on the super PACs is one for the archives. This was a
dandy. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRICH: What both senator Santorum and I have complained about with
governor Romney`s super PAC, over which he apparently has no influence,
which makes you wonder how much influence he`d have if he were president.
I think it is an absurdity, and it would be nice if Governor Romney would
exercise leadership on his former staff and his major donors to take
falsehoods off the air.

ROMNEY: Mr. Speaker, you have a super PAC ad.

GINGRICH: And I`ve --

ROMNEY: That attacks me. Now, just hold on. That attacks me. It`s
probably the biggest hoax since big foot. We would all like to have super
PACs disappear, to tell you the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Gene Robinson, who won that debate right there on the super PACs?

ROBINSON: I think Gingrich probably, by a little, just because of the
forceful way, you know, he kind of did push back on the super PAC thing.
But then it just kind of went away. And so no quarry was pursued to the
den and then dispatched. Everybody was kind of allowed to escape,
including Romney on that exchange. I just don`t think they heard him.

SCHULTZ: You know, Gene, I think conventional wisdom is this is Romney`s
to lose at this point. I kind of feel like he got out unscathed tonight.
In fact, I think he was a little bit far more prepared and seemed much more
confident tonight on how he wanted to handle these questions, which I
thought were pretty pointed.

ROBINSON: Yes, there were couples, as Richard noted, that he kind of
flubbed, but, you know, he had the look, he had -- he looked the camera in
the eye. He looked like a guy who thinks he`s beginning to do really well
on Saturday.

And I thought the interesting subtext was Santorum versus Paul, and Rick
Santorum trying to shave off Ron Paul votes to get himself into some sort
of credible second place in South Carolina so that he can continue. And so
that would -- that got kind of tough at times.

FLANDERS: And we`re kind of playing up the conflict here. I do think this
is Romney`s win -- this is going to be Romney`s win. We have to keep the
horse race kind of mythology going to keep our cable ratings on FOX News
and elsewhere --

SCHULTZ: But they didn`t go after him tonight on the money, they went
after him --

FLANDERS: He came out --

BALL: -- voting rights, too.

FLANDERS: He came out looking very presidential in the sense that he
controlled the questions that came to him, he controlled the answers in the
order which he answered them. He really did I thing not suffer any huge
blows. And we`ve seen in the polls this week, no matter how much we talk
about Bain, the South Carolina Republicans are going his way.

BALL: I thought he was put most of balance early on by Rick Santorum over
restoration voting rates for felons, but it was an attack from the left.
So, Romney was kind of caught flat-footed in that exchange, but how much
will that argument resonate with the voters of South Carolina?

SCHULTZ: I didn`t realize that Rick Santorum saved the gun industry in
this country. You learn something every time you watch these guys.
Krystal, Laura, Gene and Richard, stay with us. We`ve got a lot more
coming up. More debate wrap-up with our panel coming up next.

And later on "the Ed Show," the head of a South Carolina steel workers
union witnesses Mitt Romney`s Bain capital destroy a steel plant in his
state. He`ll tell us if Romney really knows how to create jobs. Stay
tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, "the Ed Show" panel picks debate winners and losers
next. In psychotalk, Rick Perry makes excuses for marines filmed urinating
on a dead Taliban soldier.

And public education under attack in Pennsylvania. You will want to see
this story. A school district is running out of money because of massive
state education cuts. Hear from a teacher in the school district. She`s
working for free. That`s later in the show.

Share your thoughts on twitter using the hash tag edshow. We`ll be right
back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show." We continue our live coverage of
the Republican debate that just ended on FOX News. We`re joined again by
our panelists, democratic strategist Krystal Ball, free speech TV host
Laura Flanders, "Washington Post`s" Eugene Robinson, and MSNBC political
analyst, Richard Wolffe.

Quite the crowd reaction tonight to Juan Williams` questions. And Eugene
Robinson, you were there. What`s your impression of what you saw and
heard?

ROBINSON: Well, I`m not actually in the hall, but my impression of what --
that was incredible! You know? I mean, I knew there would be a reaction,
but they went after Juan in a way that, frankly, recalled the South
Carolina of a few decades ago and not the sort of new South Carolina that
we all think we`re living in right now.

SCHULTZ: And does -- Richard Wolffe, does Newt Gingrich think that he`s
going to gain favor with conservative voters in South Carolina with his
brash response to Juan Williams?

WOLFFE: Yes. And I hate to say this, but he`s probably right. I mean,
you`re not talking about the general population here, the independents that
go up and decide general elections across the country.

Yes, this kind of pandering, condescension, just total brush-off of what is
a very legitimate concern. You know the caricaturing of Juan Williams as
being some sort of epitome of a liberal media, that`s what FOX does every
day. He`s a FOX News analyst, now running for president. Yes, this will
work for him. I actually think if you combine it with Ron Paul`s suicidal
answer on bin Laden, Gingrich is the big winner out of tonight.

SCHULTZ: Well, Gingrich tonight also went after the jobless benefits,
being linked to a job training program, although we didn`t get any
explanation of how he would pay for it. But this is how handled it and got
a pretty good response on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRICH: All unemployment compensation should be tied to a job training
requirement. Ninety nine weeks is an associate degree. I hope that my
four colleagues would agree here. Tells you everything that you need to
know about the difference between Barack Obama and the five of us, that we
wail think work is good and we think unconditional efforts by the best food
stamp president in American history to maximize dependency is terrible for
the future of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Nobody there to defend the president. That`s for sure. Krystal
Ball, Newt Gingrich was very effective tonight in throwing out conservative
raw meat facts.

BALL: You`ve got it right. He won the dog whistle primary, in fact, if
ever anyone did. And you highlighted the booing of Juan Williams. You
highlighted the cheering for the food stamp president comments, which were
certainly racially tinged.

There was another line early on from Rick Perry that I found quite
shocking. He said that South Carolina South Carolina is at war with the
federal government, and that was another huge applause line in all of this
on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, I found it quite, quite shocking.

SCHULTZ: Gene?

ROBINSON: Yes, I would agree with all of that. I think we should just
flat-out say, look, there`s a racial component, an obvious racial component
to a lot of this. That`s the audience they were playing to. And if, you
know, it`s not a stretch to say that this is, without actually using words
that are not used anymore, something akin to race baiting, that they were
doing with that whole line of answers and booing of Juan Williams in that
fashion.

FLANDERS: I mean there was no question. I mean, it wasn`t just sort of
dog whistle, this was Wolf PAC, you are absolutely right.

BALL: Megaphone.

FLANDERS: This was an extraordinary appeal to the South Carolina that
still wants to fly that confederate flag over the statehouse. It was an
extraordinary display of the most brutal kind of anti-immigrant, anti-
black, anti-federal government talk. So you`ve got the full combination.
This was really kind of master piece MLK day performance coming from the
GOP today in South Carolina today.

ROBINSON: Just one thing here. There was one other moment too when Romney
was going into his criticism of President Obama. Once again, he accused
him of turning this into some sort of European social welfare state. You
know a place that we don`t recognize.

And that`s just an interesting way of putting it, you know. It kind of
narrows the "we" and kind of gives you a hint as to what it is that he
doesn`t recognize about the modern sort of diverse multi-cultural America
that we have today.

SCHULTZ: And switch pivoting off of this, I didn`t think we would get to
the hearing about felon voting rights tonight, but this is Santorum asking
Romney about his super PAC and his own position on felons voting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Governor Romney, super PAC
has put an ad out there suggesting that I voted to allow felons to be able
to vote from prison. I would ask Governor Romney, do you believe people
who have -- who are felons, who have served their time, who have extended
and exhausted their parole and probation, should they be given the right to
vote?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Romney?

ROMNEY: First of all, as you know, the PACs that ran ads on various
candidates --

SANTORUM: I was looking for an answer to the question first.

(APPLAUSE)

SANTORUM: This is Martin Luther King Day. This is a huge deal in the
African-American community.

ROMNEY: I don`t think people who have committed violent crimes should be
allowed to vote again.

SANTORUM: In the state of Massachusetts, when you were governor, law was
that not only could violent felons vote after they exhausted their
sentences, but they could vote while they were on probation and parole,
which was a more liberal position than I took when I voted for the bill in
the congress.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Richard Wolffe, did we just see Rick Santorum walk governor
Romney into a flip-flop?

WOLFFE: He walked him into a perfectly executed debate maneuvered. Most
of the debates on about any debate, I don`t think at all, Rick Santorum
executed perfectly. I just don`t understand what voters in the Republican
primary he thinks he`s going to get, but full credit to him. He was
arguing an important piece of public policy about his record, about
Governor Romney`s failure to uphold his own position, and he tricked him
with a debate tactic. A classic debate moment that no one will give him
any votes for.

SCHULTZ: You know what I took away from that along with what you just said
is that maybe in an earlier debate; Mitt Romney would have lost his cool.
Tonight, he -- tonight he kept his composure on that one. Krystal?

BALL: He`s feeling confident. But I will say these debates are as much
about optics as they are the actual substance of what said. And if you
look at the optics of that, Rick Santorum looks like he has the win. He
looks like he backs Mitt Romney into the corner. So even if voters don`t
engage in who won the last to right on voting right, they have the optic of
Rick Santorum taking it to Mitt Romney.

SCHULTZ: Not much tonight, if anything, on evangelical Christians and the
power of their vote, unless I missed it. Ron Paul wants zero percent
income tax. He wants to keep all the military bases and said just bring
them home, but he doesn`t know how to pay for it. This is one I thought
was very entertaining.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON PAUL(R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, we should have the lowest tax
that we`ve ever had, and up until 1913, it was zero percent. What`s so bad
about that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Laura Flanders, is that in this hemisphere?

FLANDERS: No, it`s not in this hemisphere, but it was interesting to hear
the silence around a lot of what Ron Paul had to say this in the South
Carolina crowd. Kind of surprising given the particularly youthful support
he`s had in some of the other debates. Here you could hear it. It was
like a pin drop silence when he talked about some of the comments he made
about defense spending being a waste. This isn`t going to get him very
far.

And I think, you know, the real point here as we`re getting back to this
question of winners and losers tonight. And I think winners and losers
tonight. The big loser is this Martin Luther King day where we, the
American people, and frankly the people of South Carolina, who didn`t get
to talk about what`s really going on and what choices their country really
face, and the crisis that is happening on military bases, not because of
overspending on our veterans and service people, but really on lack of
services.

SCHULTZ: Gene Robinson, how`s the rest of the week going to unfold? Is
there anything more exciting than what we saw tonight, as far as the super
PACs? Are there any more gloves that could be laid on the leader?

ROBINSON: There`s going to be a lot of ads on TV and they`ll be tough, but
I don`t think -- I don`t think they laid a glove on him tonight. I think
the big loser was Ron Paul. I think he lost percentage points of his
Saturday vote tonight with that about (inaudible) about bin Laden that was
just incredible. And it remains to be seen whether Rick Santorum will pick
up any of that or if it goes to Romney.

SCHULTZ: Alright. Krystal Ball, Laura Flanders, Eugene Robinson, Richard
Wolffe, thanks so much for joining us at this hour tonight in our post
debate conversation. Thanks so much.

Next in "psycho talk", Rick Perry goes from terminator to urinator. He
defends the marine who are believing themselves on Taliban corps.

And the deadline for collecting recall signatures is approaching in
Wisconsin. Are Governor Walker`s days numbered? State democratic chair
Mike Tate and state senator Lena Taylor will tell us what`s up next.

I`ll be in Wisconsin tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in "psycho talk" tonight, Governor Rick Perry of Texas
defends urinators. The Texas governor has responded to a video apparently
showing four U.S. marines urinating on the bodies of Taliban fighters. The
Obama administration and U.S. military condemned the action, but Rick Perry
brushed it off, essentially saying, boys will be boys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: Obviously, 18, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often,
and that`s what`s occurred here. What was really disturbing to me is just
kind of the over the top rhetoric from this administration and their
disdain for the military, it appears.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: So disdain for the military, so not only does Rick Perry want to
reinvade Iraq as he said in debate last week, he`s now defending peeing on
corpses. By the way, it`s not just the Obama administration objecting. A
senior U.S. commander in Afghanistan recent sent a letter to U.S. forces
emphasizing quote, "Defiling, desecrating, mocking photographing or filming
for personal use insurgent dead constitutes a grave breach of the laws of
armed conflict."

But Perry also defended the kids by pointing out of the public urination by
historic military figures.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: When you`re in war, and history kind of backs up, there`s a picture
of General Patton doing basically the same thing in the Rhine River and
although there`s not a picture, Churchill did the same thing on the
Siegfried line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I had no idea Rick Perry was an expert on military urination, he
completely missed the point. Patton and Churchill didn`t aim their streams
at dead bodies. The bottom line here is if these kids are old enough to
fight in the Marine Corps, they`re old enough to follow the laws of war.
And for Rick Perry to give them a pass is irresponsible "psycho talk."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I think we in this audience recognize that this election is a
choice of two very different paths.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Another victim of Mitt Romney`s path is coming forward. We`ll go
back to South Carolina, next.

Public school teachers are working for free in Pennsylvania? Thanks to
failed Republican policy. That story, ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SCOTT WALKER, WISCONSIN: Talking about collecting a million, I don`t
know that they`ll get to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And Scott Walker is in for a rude awakening tomorrow. That`s
when recall signatures are due. The Democrats are here with a preview and
they may have a few surprises.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show." Mitt Romney trying to convince
South Carolina voters that he knows all about creating jobs, but in
reality, all he knows how to do is make the wealthy a little bit richer.

As head of Bain capital, Mitt Romney was focused on making money for his
investors, even if it meant destroying companies and eliminating jobs. One
of Romney`s targets was the Georgetown steel mill in South Carolina. Bain
capital bought mill`s parent company, GS Industries, for $24.5 million.
Its investors ultimately walked away with $58.4 million, doubling their
investment, better than that. But Bain left the company in massive debt.
GS Industries ended up cutting 1,750 jobs and filing for bankruptcy, count
them, twice.

The Georgetown steel mill was eventually bought by another company and is
in operation today, but if with fewer employees. Romney`s campaign
explained his involvement with the South Carolina plant in the following
statement.

"Bain capital invested in many businesses. While not every business was
successful, the firm had an excellent overall track record. These
experiences give Mr. Romney the unique skills and capabilities to do what
President Obama has failed to do -- focus on job creation and turn around
our nation`s faltering economy."

I`m joined tonight by Dr. James Sanderson, president of the United Steel
Workers Local Union 7898 in Georgetown South Carolina.

Mr. Sanderson, good to have you with us tonight. This -- we keep hearing
these stories about Bain and Mitt Romney`s involvement. What can you tell
us about this? What happened here? What is the public in your opinion
need to know?

JAMES SANDERSON, PRESIDENT, USW LOCAL 7898: Good evening, Ed Schultz. The
first thing I`d like to say is good evening to everybody in the labor
movement, the brothers and sisters that also understand the dilemma that we
face here in South Carolina.

South Carolina has over 10 percent unemployment right now, and we are very
much in need of jobs. And to hear Mitt Romney running around this state,
talking about that he`s a job creator is very disturbing and is not true.
He does, indeed, like to fire people, like you already said.

We go back to 1997, whenever Bain capital became very much involved with
our plant at Georgetown Steel, and he basically just took a lot of profits,
assets away from our company and forced it into bankruptcy.

SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Sanderson, explain South Carolina to us. We look at
the polls today, this story over the last three days does not seem to be
hitting or hurting Mitt Romney`s campaign at all. In fact, he`s moving
forward. What about the people of South Carolina? Are they concerned
about jobs? Does this story not resonate with them?

SANDERSON: Absolutely. Yes. The good-working people of South Carolina
are very much concerned about jobs, but they`re not very much in tune to
the media the way that they are informed here in this state. They have
such a whisper campaign when it comes to the media as far as what the
working people are told on the news that it`s hard to really find out
exactly what is going on.

Just to give you a good example, if you were to go into this state and go
to every Wal-Mart and stop the customers going in and ask them what do they
think the right to work law means? You`d be shocked to find out that 95
percent of them wouldn`t even know what it means.

And then to hear them spin Boeing as if the right to work law has something
to do with the NRLB charge is frightening and playing upon the people`s
lack of knowledge when it comes to labor law. And I`d say 75 to --

SCHULTZ: Yes, I have to ask you, why is it such Republican territory if
this is the case?

SANDERSON: Because of the way that they have controlled the people in this
state. I think the reason why we are last in education is by design. They
do not care for people to be educated in this state. Knowledge is power.
And once people become educated then they can make the decision for
themselves. But you keep -- but if you keep the people uneducated, then
it`s easy to control and put them in the direction that you want to control
them too.

SCHULTZ: What about the governor -- this is Nikki Haley, talking about the
-- actually, defending Mitt Romney`s record at Bain. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY, SOUTH CAROLINA: I am proud of all of our Republican
candidates. I am proud of the people that have taken the time to come and
campaign in South Carolina. But we have a real problem when we have
Republicans talking like Democrats against the free market.

We believe in the free market. This was a man that worked in the private
sector 25 years, not in the government sector, in the private sector 25
years, and he fixed broken businesses. We`ve got a broken Washington that
needs to be fixed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Is the thinking down there going to change?

SANDERSON: I feel that once the people are becoming more engaged and
understanding exactly what`s going on, I think you`ll see a different
trend.

SCHULTZ: Is she an asset to Romney? Is she an asset to Romney?

SANDERSON: No, I do not think that she will be an asset to Romney. I
think she`s going to hurt Romney.

SCHULTZ: Does this --

SANDERSON: Because her.

SCHULTZ: Does this --

SANDERSON: Her going into office --

SCHULTZ: Go ahead.

SANDERSON: When she took office, she basically declared war on the labor
movement here in South Carolina, which represents less than five percent of
the workforce. We have two ports here in South Carolina that needs to be
dredged, and out of the eight federal legislators that we have in
Washington, we only have two that`s representing us with in that fight.
And that is U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham and Congressman Jim Clyburn. Those
two, if it had been left up to them, we would have already had our ports
dredged in Charleston and Georgetown.

SCHULTZ: Do you see any political shifting going on? I mean, the way
people think? I mean, how does this affect people who are affected by
these facts?

SANDERSON: I think this is very good. I think this is very good and
healthy for the state of South Carolina. A lot of people are asking
questions and a lot of people are understanding exactly what`s wrong.
That`s why the governor, Nikki Haley, called some of the Republicans
running for office Democrats. Well, what she was letting people know, the
Republicans that she called Democrats understand what the real problems are
that the state of South Carolina are facing.

SCHULTZ: James Sanderson, good to have you with us tonight. Nikki Haley,
the 34 percent overall of South Carolina.

SANDERSON: Good to be here.

SCHULTZ: You bet. Good to have you with us. I appreciate your time.

I`ll be in Wisconsin tomorrow when the petitions to recall Governor Scott
Walker are finally handed over. How many signatures did the Democrats get
and is he the only one being recalled? Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: OK, Wisconsin, we go into the next phase. Tomorrow`s the
deadline for recall signatures in that state to get rid of the governor.
I`ll ask Democratic Party chair Mike Tate and State Senator Lena Taylor
what we can expect.

This is a story that makes my blood boil. You want to talk about
infrastructure? Later in this program, a Pennsylvania school district is
so much in trouble that their teachers are working for nothing! Just to
save the kids` education.

You can tweet us at Ed show using the hash tag edshow. Stay with us.
We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Volunteers collecting signatures to turn into the
governor accountability board. Democrats held petition parties over the
weekend throughout the state to get those last-minute signatures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And on the Ed Show tonight, well, the deadline for collecting
recall signatures is almost here. In fact, I`ll be in Madison, Wisconsin,
tomorrow after petitions to recall Governor Scott Walker are delivered.
I`ve got to see this.

This was a grassroots, boots on the ground effort and it looks like it has
been a huge success. Volunteers have collected so many signatures the
petitions will be delivered to the government accountability board by
truck. As the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" reports, state election
officials are preparing to accept 300,000 pages of petitions with 1.5
million signatures. Governor Scott Walker acknowledged the recall in an
interview with a right-wing Web site, the daily caller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: This is why this, my election, which appears to be a recall
election, is going to be such a big deal, I think. Because this is one of
those defying moments not only in Wisconsin`s history, but I believe as
part of the national political landscape, this will be one of those
defining moments as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, only two other governors have ever been recalled in
America. Let`s bring in Mike Tate, chair of the Democratic Party in
Wisconsin and Wisconsin State Senator Lena Taylor. Great to have both of
you with us tonight.

It is an ongoing story. You`ve been at this for almost a year now. I`ve
got to ask you, Mike, the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" is saying, 1.5
million signatures. Is that number correct?

MIKE TATE, WISCONSIN DEMOCRATIC PARTY COUNCIL: That number is not
accurate. We`re not quite sure where they got it from. They may have
gotten it from the government accountability board, which has no business
releasing any numbers at all. We aren`t saying yet how many signatures
we`re handing in tomorrow. We know that its 3,000 pounds of petitions that
we`re bringing over to the government accountability board, but we think
it`s going to be a pretty impressive number to recall not only Governor
Walker, but the lieutenant governors and several state senators as well.

SCHULTZ: You have enough to, you think, to do more than Walker? The
lieutenant governor and several state senators?

TATE: I believe that we will hand in enough signatures on all of those
races from governor on down that an election in the state Senate,
lieutenant governor, governor will be beyond challenge.

SCHULTZ: Senator Taylor, are Wisconsinites prepared for the money that`s
going to be floating in? I mean, that sound bite right there that we just
played that was on the right-wing Web site, the daily caller, it sounds
like governor Walker knows that this is going down and he`s not going to be
able to stop it and he`s been out on the road quite a bit outside the
state, raising a lot of money. What`s this going to come to, in your
opinion?

LENA TAYLOR, STATE SENATOR, WISCONSIN: There`s no question that there`s
going to be money coming in from all over. I mean, he`s had big donors who
have been giving to him for a very long time. And so there`s no question
about that.

But I think, Ed, the piece that I can stand on and I believe what Mike has
just shared with you is that Wisconsinites, they may have money, but we
have the people, and the people have the vote. And that vote is what`s
going to matter. And ultimately, I believe that in the end, Governor
Walker will not be our governor.

SCHULTZ: Now, there`s only two other governors in American history that
have ever been recalled. And then, of course, this is an election year,
big-time, in 2012, November. This is a lot of political activity.

Mike, do you think people are going to be enthused enough to carry the long
haul here in a big year?

TATE: You know, Ed, I`ll tell you. I got this question a lot, I get this
question, were we going to be able to sustain the momentum and emergency we
saw last winter when Senator Taylor and our brave colleagues went down to
Illinois to try to fight off governor`s collective bargaining changes.

And I will be honest with you. My first thought was I don`t know. But,
I`ll tell you, having watched this unfold, we`re gaining momentum. There
are people that are getting involved in the process now that weren`t
involved at all last winter when we had the protests and the capital in
every Wisconsin city. I think that this is an unstoppable force and that
momentum is absolutely on our side.

SCHULTZ: Senator Taylor, are the Republicans going to challenge these
sergeants? I mean, you`ve got a lot coming in tomorrow.

TAYLOR: They will. I`m certain. Look to challenge them. I hope they
keep their word. They`ve not been good at keeping their word, but they
said they could do it within four days. I hope they can keep their word
and do it within four days. And when we get done, we`ll still have more
than enough.

We have more than enough signatures. More than 30 percent of the people
who voted in the gubernatorial election have clearly signed in order to
cause these recalls. And when you get done, we`re going to go to the
ground. It`s going to be boots on the ground. We`re going to go and talk
to the people and the people are going to come out and vote.

So, I believe they will challenge them, Ed. But in the end, their
challenge is not going to prevent the inevitable. They have to deal with
the people of Wisconsin. These angry badgers will cause them to come out
and vote.

SCHULTZ: Well, these angry badgers are going to have to go through a
primary first, aren`t they? Do you know who`s going to be running against
Scott Walker? What`s the next step, Mike?

TATE: Well, and we`re some angry PACer fans to this tonight, Ed. I don`t
know exactly who`s going to run. I do think we are going to have a
democratic primary. And I think that, Ed, that`s a sign of how weak Scott
Walker is, that more than one good democrat has done some research and has
come back with a conclusion that they have a path to victory against this
guy.

SCHULTZ: You bet. Mike Tate and state senator Lena Taylor, looking
forward to seeing you tomorrow. It is going to be quite, quite a story
unfolding, be a lot of emotion there. Appreciate your time here tonight.
Good work is in order.

Fifteen miles outside of Philadelphia, the birthplace of the United States
constitution, a Republican governor is prepared to let an entire school
district die. That`s right, die.

Teachers are making a tremendous sacrifice to fight the closure. And I
will be joined by one of those teachers, next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up Pennsylvania governor Tom Corbett slashed the education
budget and now districts like Chester, upland school district are feeling
the effects. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: In a big finish tonight, a radical assault on public education is
underway in Pennsylvania. This story came to me via my radio show today.
I couldn`t believe what I was listening to.

An entire school district could close down leaving thousands of students
out in the cold. No plans. The Chester Upland School District outside
Philadelphia only has $100,000 left in the bank. Republican Pennsylvania
governor Tom Corbett slashed more than $8 million from the budget last
year. The district relies on state aid for about 80 percent of budget. It
serves one of the most impoverished populations in the state. The district
asked the state for emergency assistance. Of course the request was
denied.

Cutting public education is a top agenda for Governor Corbett. Last fall
Corbett told reporters his number one priority as governor is school
voucher legislation. The Chester Upland District pays more than $39
million a year to area charter schools. The charter school payments, the
cut in state aid and massive debt are overwhelming. The school is unable
to make payrolls or pay its bills. But teachers and other faculty are
working without pay to keep the school running.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN SHELTON, TEACHER: I feel that the governor does not look at the
situation the same way that we look at it. They are looking at it from an
economic standpoint we`re looking at it from a life standpoint. For them
it`s about the figures. For us it`s about students lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m joined tonight by Linda Cook, a regional president with the
Pennsylvania state education association. And Sarah Ferguson, an
elementary school math and literacy teacher for the Chester Upland school
district. Thanks for both of you being on the program tonight.

I can`t believe what I`m hearing, what I`m reading and what I listened to
today. Linda Cook, how is the governor`s charter school agenda affected
this district?

LINDA COOK, PRESIDENT, PENNSYLVANIA STATE EDUCATION ASSOCIATION,
SOUTHEASTERN REGION: Well first of all, thanks for getting the story out,
Ed. The governor`s agenda has siphoned funds students and money from the
Chester upland school district.

SCHULTZ: Just taking it right away for charter schools and what about the
public school kids?

COOK: Well, it is ironic the school district was not able to pay their
charter school bill, so the state is paying the charter schools, but it
won`t give the school district money.

SCHULTZ: Why not?

COOK: I believe its politics. And the governor trying to his agenda
across that he got defeated in November.

SCHULTZ: Sarah Ferguson, why have you decided to work without pay and also
your fellow teachers?

SARA FERGUSON, ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER: Well, what happened or does not
happen within classrooms across America determines the course of students`
lives, and ultimately, it will determine the course of our whole society.

We decided to be there as professionals to instruct our students because
this is about more than dollars and cents. This is about the course and
direction that these young people`s lives will take.

SCHULTZ: And how long are you willing to do this and your colleagues?
What is the conversation?

FERGUSON: The conversation is that we`re in this for the long haul. We`re
willing to do this as long as we can, we`ve gotten tremendous support from
our surrounding area, from our unions, and we intend to be here just as
long as we can we`re in it for the long haul.

SCHULTZ: Linda, what happens if they want to shut down the school
district? I mean, could it come to that or is it up to the teachers to
keep this thing going, working for nothing?

COOK: It`s basically up to the teachers to keep it going. If the teachers
go in and do their jobs, it`s going to be very hard for them to shut that
district down. And to say that their job is not valuable and the education
of the children are not valuable.

SCHULTZ: What is the solution here?

COOK: Well, the first thing is, is that the governor could fund public
education. He could stop taking it down, he could stop passing his --
trying to pass his agenda and look at what is valuable in the state of
Pennsylvania. The public in Pennsylvania does not support vouchers. Yet
he still persists in trying to get legislation across.

SCHULTZ: Sara Ferguson you agree with that, is it voucher issue that is
why you`re not being paid to go in and teach kids?

FERGUSON: I believe that`s part of it, but our students don`t know
anything about vouchers, they don`t know anything about politics, they
don`t know anything about mismanaged funds. All they know they are coming
to school to learn every day and we intend to be there for them.

SCHULTZ: And Sara, I have to ask you. Do you see your school district and
your teachers as a pretty much standard bearer in the fight over public
education? I can`t believe the story. I cannot believe there is a school
district in America where teachers are not getting paid because the state
won`t live up to their funding obligation.

FERGUSON: If we don`t put a stop to this right now, it won`t stop with us.
There are other school districts that are right behind us.

SCHULTZ: In Pennsylvania?

FERGUSON: In Pennsylvania, yes. And like I said, if we don`t put a stop
to it right now, it will not stop with us. They could be coming for your
school district next and for your children next. Stand up for your
children.

SCHULTZ: Linda Cook. Is this a union issue, is he trying to break the
union here?

COOK: I think he is trying to break public education.

SCHULTZ: OK.

COOK: And I would like to say that the union has set up a fund, a crisis
fund for the teachers, and if anybody is interested, they can go to
psca.org.

SCHULTZ: Alright. I`m going to do more on the story. I can`t believe
this is happening in America. I cannot believe it. This is what the
Soviet Union did. This is the United States of America.

Linda Cook and Sara Ferguson, thank you for your time. Appreciate it very.
It`s a story that we will do more of on "the Ed Show".

That`s `the Ed Show." I`m Ed Schultz.

Let`s go now to Rachel Maddow. Her show starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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