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The Ed Show for Wednesday, March 14

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Guests: Howard Dean, Bob Shrum, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Robert Reich, John
Nichols, Mike Tate, Professor Charles Ogletree

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

Rick Santorum takes Mitt Romney to the woodshed down South. But real
problem is Newt Gingrich standing in his way in the race.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I`m a weak front runner,
what does that make Newt Gingrich?

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The tortoise got tattooed in Dixie land. And
now, he`s refusing to leave the race.


SCHULTZ: The three-ring Republican circus rolls on. Bob Shrum and
former Governor Howard Dean are here with the latest.

Mitt Romney drops a bomb on women.

ROMNEY: Planned Parenthood, we`re going to get rid of that.

SCHULTZ: And a proposed law in Arizona says bosses can fire women for
taking birth control? Katrina Vanden Heuvel of "The Nation" magazine will
have reaction.

It`s game on in Wisconsin. The recall dates are set. And now, Scott
Walker is complaining he doesn`t get paid enough.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: My wife in some ways would love it
if I`d go back to the private sector and make some real money.

SCHULTZ: "The Nation`s" John Nichols has the latest.

And tonight, another ED SHOW exclusive.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Professor Ogletree went to great lengths to
hide that protest footage during the 2008 campaign.

SCHULTZ: The man at the center of Sean Hannity`s bogus theory,
Harvard professor Charles Ogletree, will tell us why he hid that tape of
Barack Obama.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

There is only one thing keeping Newt Gingrich in the Republican
presidential race -- it`s ego. Rick Santorum pull off a six-point win in
Alabama last night. It was a closer race in Mississippi. But Santorum,
you know, he won but never led in any Mississippi polls.

It was not a good night for Mitt Romney, who came in third in both
states but it was a disaster for Newt Gingrich.

Gingrich was selling voters on, you know, $2.50 a gallon gas and on
his ability to "hey, I can win the Southern states." So far, he`s only won
Georgia and South Carolina.

And there is no reason for Gingrich to stay in the race. But last
night, he was defiant.


GINGRICH: We will continue to run a people`s campaign. I believe
after the primaries are over, it will be obvious that the so-called front-
runner in fact didn`t get there. And from that point on we`ll be in a
whole new conversation.


SCHULTZ: Newt, not a whole lot of real estate in your backyard with
just two states. Every day Newt Gingrich stays in the race, it`s bad news
for Rick Santorum. His campaign knows Gingrich is cutting into the
Santorum vote in many states.

But Santorum`s campaign spokesman said they`re not asking Gingrich to


Gingrich to get in the race. We sure won`t call on Newt Gingrich to get
out of the race. But the fact of the matter is, if he weren`t in the race
at this point, not only would we be meeting Mitt Romney in these other
states, we`d be beating him badly.


SCHULTZ: Santorum`s campaign isn`t going to ask Gingrich to leave,
but the pro-Santorum super PAC is sure happy to do the dirty work.

Nick Ryan of Red, White and Blue, that fund, released a statement last
night saying , "A week ago we called on Newt Gingrich to exit the race.
Tonight, voters in Alabama and Mississippi said the same thing."

Even the super PAC supporting Newt Gingrich understands what a big
blow the former House speaker was dealt last night. Rick Tyler of Winning
Our Future super PAC said, "This is pretty important. The PAC always felt
we needed to win both of these states to change the narrative." Well, it
didn`t happen.

Today, Tyler made it clear what the Gingrich strategy is.


RICK TYLER, WINNING OUR FUTURE: I predict now that Newt Gingrich will
arrive in Tampa on equal footing with Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum and Ron
Paul. And the reason is none of those people will have the requisite
amount of delegates to take the nomination.


SCHULTZ: Delegates, delegates, it`s momentum, it`s P.R., it`s ability
to sell and get some real estate. Image is everything, right?

Gingrich can`t bring himself to drop out of the race, because he wants
to hurt Mitt Romney. It`s personal. Gingrich was thrilled with himself
last night as he stood at the podium and mocked Mitt Romney for coming in

Romney responded on FOX News today.


ROMNEY: If I`m a weak front runner, what does that make Newt
Gingrich? So, I`m glad that I got I think about twice as many delegates as
anyone else in the process. Over the last several contests, I`ve earned a
million more votes than has either Senator Santorum or Speaker Gingrich
from the Republicans in these contests.


SCHULTZ: Why even respond to Newt Gingrich?

Mitt Romney is right about the delegate count, he is the clear leader
in pledge delegates so far. But Romney is cherry picking the state vote
totals. When you add up the vote in all 30 states and territories where
GOP elections have been held in 2012, Romney only has 38 percent of the
vote, although the Republicans total 62 percent of the vote. Three out of
every five Republican voters want anyone but the former governor of
Massachusetts, Mitt Romney.

This is why Newt Gingrich must get out of the race if he cares about
the conservative movement. He can`t win the nomination at this point.

But a majority of people in his party want someone other than Mitt
Romney to be a nominee. A contest between Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum
would allow the Republicans on the right wing to make a clear choice. When
you look at the vote totals, they could very well choose Rick Santorum --
and wouldn`t all us liberals love that?

If Gingrich really wants to hurt Mitt Romney, he ought to just get out
now, go have a steak. You know, go to Tampa early. You could do that.

And who is giving to Newt Gingrich`s campaign? That`s the story as it
now moves to Illinois where that is not traditionally been good territory,
that part of the country, for Newt Gingrich.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, what`s more important to Newt Gingrich? His ego or his country?

Text A for ego, text B for his country, to 622639. And you can always
go to our blog at We`ll bring you results later in the show.

I`m joined tonight by Democratic strategist and NYU professor, Bob
Shrum, and former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, and also the former
chairman of the DNC and CNBC contributor.

Governor, and also, Bob, great to have you tonight.

Governor, let me ask you first. What reason should Newt Gingrich stay
in the race for? Is there anything other than the way he thinks that would
make the case for him to keep ongoing?

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: Well, that`s a really tough
question since I had to drop out of my race, actually after Bob`s candidate
administered a whooping in Iowa to me. Look, this is a very personal
decision getting out of the race. It`s hard for any politician to do and
it`s even harder for your supporters. And you got to take that in
consideration after all they`ve been through. So, I don`t -- I don`t think
you ought to be telling people when to get out of the race.

I think your analysis is right. There`s no question. If Newt stays
in, Romney has a much better chance of winning because you got to
consolidate the conservative vote if you want a conservative. There are
some winner take-all-states and that means Romney is going to get 100
percent of the delegates if Newt stays in, Romney wins with 37 or 38

So, you know, Newt has to figure it out for himself. He got into it.
He`s got to figure out when the right time to exit is.

SCHULTZ: Well, if he didn`t have that one donor from Las Vegas, he
wouldn`t have won the two states that he`s got so far.

DEAN: That`s true. Isn`t it amazing how screwed up Citizens United
is. It`s really screwed up the Republican primary. This race would be
over if it hadn`t been for Sheldon Adelson writing $20 million worth checks
to Newt Gingrich.

SCHULTZ: No doubt.

DEAN: Romney will be the nominee and he`d be in much better shape.
As it is, he`s going to get his butt kick in the fall because he`s going to
be associated with his birth control farce and anti-Latino stuff he`s been
talking about.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, this is what Mitt Romney said about winning
conservative voters. Here it is.


ROMNEY: When you ask in these prior elections, who as conservatives
did you vote -- I won the conservative vote. Some who are very
conservative may not be yet in my camp, but they will be when I become the


SCHULTZ: Now, exit polling shows Romney is probably correct, 91
percent of Alabama primary voters said that they would definitely or
probably vote for the eventual Republican nominee. But he has had a hard
time locking this up.

And is this going to continue or do you see him peeling off the more
conservative voters?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Oh, it`s going to continue for a
while. I think core Republican voters at this point are the political
equivalent of Romney`s dog Seamus. They`re strapped to the top of the car.
The car is heading toward Tampa.

If I can put it this way, they may rain on the parade occasionally.
But because of a couple of factors, it seems to me Romney will be the
nominee. One is the governor said, Newt Gingrich stays there, as you said
he draws votes away. Number two -- and this is particularly ironic -- the
Romney safety net is rapidly becoming voters, primary voters in blue states
like Illinois, California and New York, which he can`t possibly hope to
carry in the fall.

One thing that`s amazing here and it goes back again to something that
Howard said is that if you look at past races, Bush in 2000, Kerry in 2004,
even Clinton in 1992, by this far in the process, we had a nominee. I
think this is a testimony to Romney`s weakness. I agree he is being
battered in the process. He is on a national pander-thon.

I mean, not only was he eating cheesy grits or said he was, he was
going out there in Mississippi and looking to crowds and say good mornin`.
And what he got for that was a very bad evening last night.

SCHULTZ: And he`s taken some heat from conservative leaders,
conservative activists. For instance, conservative leader Richard Viguerie
posted on Twitter today, I`m asking Newt Gingrich and supporters and
campaign team to join Rick Santorum`s campaign for president.

Governor Dean, what do you make of that? Is that pressure continue to
mount as days go on?

DEAN: It probably will but Newt is immune to pressure. I mean, he`s
a hard-nosed fellow. He`s going to get out when he feels he needs to get
out, and maybe his calculation is he goes to Tampa with a few hundred
delegates and gets to be the king maker. I think that`s unlikely. We
haven`t seen a convention like that for 70 years.

SCHULTZ: Well, how does this effect, in your opinion, Governor, the
Obama campaign. Is this good, bad and different? Does it matter at all?
Do you think that they`re --

DEAN: Sure.

SCHULTZ: -- going to all get behind? You know, these numbers coming
out of Alabama and Mississippi say, you know, they just don`t want
President Obama. They really don`t care who the nominee is going to be.

DEAN: Ed, Alabama and Mississippi weren`t going to vote for Obama
under any circumstances.

Here is where it`s killing these guys, they go down to Alabama and
Mississippi, Romney today said he wanted to get right of Planned
Parenthood. Now, how do you think that`s going to play in among Republican
women in the Philadelphia suburbs? That`s the swing vote in Pennsylvania.
This is insane.

SCHULTZ: So, you`re saying that as this goes on, there are these
issues that keep propping up that are just detrimental to what they are
trying to accomplish.

DEAN: Yes. I mean, he`s got moving -- he`s already -- Obama is ahead
of Romney six to one among Latinos. Now, even if it ends up being three to
one, you can`t, as a Republican, you cannot win the presidency without
getting 40 percent of the Latino vote. Obama has a 20 percent gap, gender
gap now, and that`s because of this ridiculous birth control thing.

This is ridiculous. This campaign, this Republican campaign is the
most disorganized thing. Usually they run much better campaigns, than we
do. They`re better organized, better disciplined.

I have not seen a Republican shambles like this since 1964. I think
probably it`s not inconceivable if the economy continues to get better that
Mitt Romney may set the record that Barry Goldwater set for how many states
he gets.

SCHULTZ: Well, Bob, one of the things on the mind of a lot of people
and the president is taking heat for it is gas prices. We all know that
it`s not the president`s doing. But this does have, you know, a political
drip to it of sorts.

What do you make of it?

SHRUM: Well, the polls are a little contradictory on this, I think
it`s a two-sided equation. People have been so traumatized by what they
have been through in the last several years as a result of the bush
economic collapse that any bad news I think tends to register immediately.


SHRUM: But in this two-sided equation as, and if the job numbers keep
getting better, I think the president and I think Governor Dean is
completely right about this, is going to get in a stronger and stronger

More than that, Mitt Romney is going to lose his argument. His
argument is I`m a CEO, he might have been a job-destroying CEO. But I`m a
CEO and I can go out and fix the economy.

Well, if the economy is already being fixed, he needs some other
message. Right now, his only message in these Republican primaries, 90
percent of his ads are negative is the other guy is even worse than I am.

SCHULTZ: Yes. And --

SHRUM: That is how he squeaked through in Michigan where he almost
proved you can`t go home again.

SCHULTZ: And, quickly, Bob, can Santorum take Illinois? Despite the
fact that he hasn`t been anywhere as much as Romney has spent there. Is it
still there for the taking? Can he get it done in a week?

SHRUM: He can. I would bet against him because of the mountain of
money coming at him. It didn`t work in Mississippi, it didn`t work in
Alabama, but it did work in Michigan and Ohio.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, Howard Dean, always a pleasure. Great to have
both of you with us.

DEAN: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter, @EdShow. We always want to know
what you think.

Next, your birth control is your boss`s business in the state of
Arizona if this all goes through. Katrina Vanden Heuvel of "The Nation"
will weigh in on that, and on Mitt Romney`s latest attack on Planned

And Scott Walker`s time as governor is getting short. Wisconsin
Democratic chair Mike Tate and also "The Nation`s" John Nichols will be
here with the latest breaking details from the Badger State.

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, Mitt Romney sticks his foot in his mouth again
and reopens the contraception fight.

And in Arizona, Republicans are pushing a law that would allow any
employer to fire a female worker for using contraception as birth control.
Katrina Vanden Heuvel is here next with the latest in the Republican war on

Republicans in Congress have helped to tank the economy and we have
the charts -- yes, the charts to prove it. Labor Secretary Robert Reich
will be here for commentary.

And the righty conspiracy theorists say that Harvard professor Charles
Ogletree is covering up the president`s so-called radical past. Professor
Charles Ogletree will set the record straight tonight in an ED SHOW
exclusive interview.

Share your thoughts on Twitter #EdShow.

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

From the state that gave us the "show me your papers" law targeting
Hispanics, well here comes another doozy. Arizona now wants to enact a
"show me your prescription" law targeting women. The measure would force
women who wished to have contraception covered by their health insurance
plan to provide proof that they are taking it for reasons other than
preventing pregnancy.

So here`s the bottom line. Your boss would have the power to ask you
why you`re on birth control and you`d be required to tell your boss, he or
she, what the deal is. And if your reasons -- well, if they clash with
your boss` religious beliefs, your boss is allowed to fire you.

Yesterday, the Arizona state judiciary committee endorsed the bill.
Now, it moves on to the Senate. The bill`s author, Republican whip, Debbie
Lesko, says it`s all about freedom. Her quote was, "I believe we live in
America. We don`t live in the Soviet Union, so government should not be
telling the organizations of mom or pop employers to do something against
their moral beliefs."

Let`s bring in Katrina Vanden Heuvel, editor, publisher of "The
Nation" magazine.

Katrina, it is 2012, just a reminder on that.


SCHULTZ: It is. Seventy-seven percent of Americans believe that
birth control should not even be in the public discussion. And allegedly
this is tying right in some of the legislation that ALEC has written and
some of the other states, what do you make of it?

VANDEN HEUVEL: Well, I think we`re at the pivotal moment in this
country`s history. This is not about religious freedom, this is about
women`s right to control their access to health care, to control their own
lives, control their own employment future.

You heard Mitt Romney talking about getting rid of Planned Parenthood.
Planned Parenthood is a vital health care provider in this country. Three
million women get family planning, other health services.

We`re witnessing an attempt to roll back women`s reproductive rights
and what is interesting about Arizona, Ed, this right wing group ALEC, is
the Tea Party states, we`ve seen victories like Arizona -- you`ve seen an
attempt to roll back workers rights and women`s reproductive rights.

And now in this bill, they`ve seemed to fuse the two together and the
irony and hypocrisy is Mitt Romney talks about the boot of government
getting off our necks. They are putting it on women`s buddies, these
Republicans who claim they want limited government.

SCHULTZ: How does forcing a women to explain to her boss about birth
control and contraception use have anything to do with protecting religious

VANDEN HEUVEL: It doesn`t.

SCHULTZ: I mean, this is a worker`s rights issue.

VANDEN HEUVEL: Absolutely. And by the way, there is a worker`s
rights issue laced through this, Ed, because what you`re seeing in the
attempt to roll back health care services for women, whether it`s
contraception or breast cancer screenings or pap smears, is to roll back
women`s access and low income women, all kinds of women, for many women
Planned Parenthood, one out of five women, you know this, have gone to
planned parenthood at some time in their life for many women that is their
access to a doctor in a year.

And the folly of Mitt Romney saying he`s going to get rid of Planned
Parenthood because it will save money, family planning saves money.

It`s right on its own terms but it saves money. What`s he going to
do, take that money and give it for more tax cuts for millionaires?

SCHULTZ: Probably. That`s probably his plan.

VANDEN HEUVEL: You know, if he wants to defund Planned Parenthood,
Mr. Romney and Mrs. Romney should give back the money they contributed to
Planned Parenthood in 1994. The hypocrisy shows how weak he is.

He`s running disgracefully, pandering to everything that moves because
he will say anything to get elected.

SCHULTZ: Well, here he is, another infamous comment yesterday about
women`s health care. Here it is.


ROMNEY: Of course, you get rid of Obamacare, that`s the easy one.
But there are others. Planned Parenthood, we`re going to get rid of that.


SCHULTZ: Now, as you said, he previously attended a Planned
Parenthood fund-raiser and sought the endorsement when he was running for
governor in Massachusetts. This is as big a flip-flop as you can find in
his entire repertoire.

VANDEN HEUVEL: It`s also a flip-flop, Ed, for the Republican Party.
It shows how far it`s gone to the right. This isn`t new to many listeners.
But think about the fact that Richard Nixon and George Bush father helped
found Title X, which is a family planning program which Mitt Romney wants
to roll back, denying access to 5 million women.

This is not a women`s issue, Ed. You know what it is? It`s an issue
for families in the country, because any partner, any man who has a partner
or spouse or daughter, he wants them to be healthy and have good health
care. Mitt Romney is attacking that possibility.

SCHULTZ: Well, he`s going after the poor as well, too.

VANDEN HEUVEL: Low income women, the poor. He wants to unravel the
safety net in this country which is already so frayed.

SCHULTZ: All right. This is issue just doesn`t go away. Fifty-eight
percent of Americans have an unfavorable view of Rush Limbaugh; 70 percent
think his comments about Sandra Fluke were inappropriate. Yet he thinks
it`s all a White House conspiracy.

Here it is.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW: Anita Dunn, Obama`s former advisor is
the P.R. firm for the movie "Game Change" and Sandra Fluke. It`s all part
of a plan. It is not accidental. None of this stuff just happened whoa,
lookie over what just happened -- it`s all orchestrated.


SCHULTZ: What was orchestrated about his nine-hour attack on that
Georgetown student?

VANDEN HEUVEL: You know, what do you do? It`s pathetic. What do you
when you`re on the run? You fabricate. You demonize. I mean, it was
Darrell Issa`s committee as I recall which rejected Sandra Fluke`s
testimony. That is not a conspiracy.

And I think what you`re hearing is the attempt to get him to silence.
She spoke, profile in courage to Sandra Fluke was, she said, I`m not going
to be coerced in silencing my voice.

She speaks for millions of women who won`t allow Rush Limbaugh to
silence their voice with his vile viciousness.

SCHULTZ: Katrina, always great to have you with us. Thanks so much -
- Katrina Vanden Heuvel of "The Nation" magazine.

Government spending underwent a huge increase under Ronald Reagan, but
not under President Obama. So then why do Republicans only scream about
deficits when a Democrat is in the Oval Office? Robert Reich will join me
on that.

And Sarah Palin has dubbed herself the president`s enemy of the week
after his campaign featured the former governor, half governor, in its
latest ad. Now, she is challenging the president to a debate? Details

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Thanks for watching.

Charts, I love charts.

You know, since President Obama took office, we`ve seen how
Republicans have tried their best to absolutely sabotage the economy.

Here`s more proof: this shows the net change in government spending
under President Ronald Reagan and President Obama in their first terms.

Here`s the Reagan line. Here`s the Obama line. They are so concerned
about government spending.

Take a look at the red line. Spending goes way up under President
Reagan. Look at the blue line, where does it go? Spending ticks up under
President Obama but then it drops.

Keep in mind, both of these presidents had to do what? Get out of a

But President Obama was saddled with the Great Recession. And he had
a lot of help, too, didn`t he? Let`s look at another chart. The first
terms of these five presidents -- well, the blue line, light blue line is
Bill Clinton`s presidency, with the net change in government spending less
than 3 percent.

But look at the red lines, Reagan, 12 percent growth in government
spending. Bush, 41 percent. About 6 percent for Bush 43, a net increase
of 12 percent.

All this government spending has a stimulative effect.

So, when the Republicans are in the Oval Office, no big deal they are
happy to help their president kick start the economy with spending.

But when it`s a Democrat in the Oval Office, all of a sudden,
Republicans in Congress, oh, holy smokes, we got to scream about the
deficit thing and this run away spending. We can`t do that.

Well, guess what? Today, the Senate passed the transportation bill 77
to 22. I mean, hold it right there. You mean to tell me we had some
Republicans vote with Democrats in the United States Senate? It must be an
election year -- 77-22 but it faces some serious Republican opposition in
the House.

Joining me now is Robert Reich, former secretary of labor under
President Clinton and now a professor at UC Berkeley and author the book
"After Shock." Robert, good to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: You bet. A lot of lessons in these charts. What do you
take from this? What is the number one thing voters and liberals should
take from this, when they`re up against the argument all this spending is
taking place.

REICH: Well, the biggest argument and, in fact, the biggest learning
from those charts is that Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush both had huge
booster rockets getting out of the recession that marked the beginnings of
their terms.

Now that big booster rocket was essentially Congress, Republicans and
Democrats, joining together and providing a huge amount of spending that
will generate and accelerate the economy out of the gravitational pull of
those recessions.

But Barack Obama gets just the opposite. In fact, in the Clinton
administration, I was proud to be a member of that administration. And we
suffered the same fate as the Barack Obama administration. Mid-term
election, first term of the Bill Clinton administration, Congress taken
over by the Republicans. And suddenly, they talk about austerity. They
talk about balancing the budget.

They don`t want to spend any money. Whereas in the Reagan
administration, we had military Keynesianism. That is they spent like mad,
just like in the George W. Bush administration.

SCHULTZ: Well, we have had the big three under the Bush
administration, Bush 43. We`ve had the tax cuts, two rounds of them, that
were not paid for. We had big pharma. We had a couple of wars that were
off budget until the Democrats got back in control of the gavel in 2006.

So what is the best case that the Obama administration and Democrats
out on the trail, looking for votes -- what is the best case to make with
this scenario the way it`s played out?

REICH: Well, what they can say quite honestly is that President Obama
did the best he could with the terrible hand he was dealt, primarily by the
George W. Bush administration, and notwithstanding the absolute inability
and unwillingness of Republicans in Congress to cooperate on anything.

This economy is struggling and finally getting out, suddenly --
gradually, I should say, out of the gravitational pull of that great
recession, much worse recession than we`ve had since the Great Depression.

But he had absolutely no help from the Republicans, unlike George W.
Bush, unlike Ronald Reagan, when they had help from Republicans and
Democrats, creating a great booster coming out of those terrible recessions

SCHULTZ: So we have got a transportation bill passing in the Senate
today. It goes over to the House. This is yet another opportunity for the
Tea Partiers to go out there and obstruct and not pass something in the
House and cause all kinds of problems and again, not create the kind of
jobs we could if we passed this. How do you see this playing out?

REICH: Well, the Tea Partiers are certainly going to try to stop
everything in its tracks. They will try to convince the leadership, John
Boehner and others, that nothing should go forward. Why help Barack Obama
at all? Why show anything?

But I think that John Boehner has shown some signs in recent weeks, Ed
-- I don`t want to give him too much credit now, and I don`t want to
suggest the Republicans have suddenly seen the light. But the leadership,
Republican leadership in the House, they`re a little bit nervous that if
they go into the elections just having said no, no, no, no to everything,
the voters are not going to be all that pleased.

So transportation, in the past, has been bipartisan. It`s just
possible that Boehner may prevail over Eric Cantor and some of the Tea
Partiers in the Republicans of the House.

SCHULTZ: Always a pleasure, Robert Reich. Great to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

REICH: Thanks, Ed.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I sense change in the air and I`m not talking


SCHULTZ: In Wisconsin, the date for the Walker recall is set. And
the governor is busted complaining his 140,000 dollar salary isn`t enough.


GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: My wife in some ways would love it
if I go back to the private sector, made some real money.


SCHULTZ: "The Nation`s" John Nichols and Mike Tate of the Wisconsin
Democratic Party on the recall and the latest on the Walker investigation.

And right wing conspiracy theorists claim a Harvard professor was
trying to cover up President Obama`s radical past.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hid this throughout the 2008 campaign.


SCHULTZ: Tonight, Harvard Professor Charles Ogletree is my guest


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Now look, if you care about
the Republican war on workers, I want you to take out your calendar tonight
and circle the date. It`s Tuesday, June 5th, 2012.

You know, wherever I go around the country, people talk about this
story. What`s happening in Wisconsin? This is what we have been waiting
for. Today in Wisconsin, a Dane County judge approved the date for the
recall election of Scott Walker, his lieutenant governor and four
Republican state senators.

This is unprecedented in American political history, this kind of a
recall. Primary races are going to will be held on May 8th and the general
recall election is going to be held on the first Tuesday in June, which is
June 5th.

I`ve already circled the calendar.

Scott Walker might be looking at his last 12 weeks in office unless
the long arm of the law catches up with him first. Prosecutors have
brought charges totaling 15 felonies and three misdemeanors against six
aides and associates in relation to an ongoing John Doe investigation.

The focus of the investigation has been center around political
activities on taxpayer time during Walker`s times as the Milwaukee County
executive. Lots of guilty people there, right?

Late last week, Walker, well, he lawyered up. He hired two high-
powered attorneys for his legal defense fund? A governor needs a legal
defense fund? Walker might be reading the tea leaves.

On Monday, the rookie governor attended an event sponsored by the
extremely low rated conservative talk show host Charlie Sykes. The
Democratic Party of Wisconsin captured this what I think is priceless


WALKER: Frankly my wife in some ways would love it if I go back to
the private sector, make some real money.


SCHULTZ: Really? When was the last time you heard a politician
running into an election talk about going back to the private sector and
making some real money? Governor Walker doesn`t think that 144 grand a
year isn`t real money? Walker makes three times more than the average of
the public school teacher in the Badger State who he went after.

The governor`s radical law took money out of the pockets of teachers,
snowplow drivers -- they`re a big problem -- librarians, did all that to
balance his budget. And then they started losing a bunch of jobs. But
he`s whining about raking in the big bucks in the private sector?

Walker also may be considering jumping ship before the feds or the
voters of Wisconsin bounce him out of the governor`s mansion in that state.

Let`s turn to Mike Tate, chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party,
John Nichols also with us tonight, Washington correspondent of "The Nation"
magazine and author of the book "Uprising."

Gentlemen, great to have you on board. I keep hearing rumors about
the governor may be resigning. Now this is a big recall election. This is
what everybody in Wisconsin has waited for, to get this date and to move
forward with it.

Mike, what do you make of this conversation about possibly the
governor resigning? Do you think he would ever do it?

this is a governor that is far too arrogant and far too conservative
himself to ever think about something like his party first before him. I
think that this is a guy who probably broke the law.

But I honestly believe, in his own head, he doesn`t think he broke the
law. I think he thinks that rules are meant for other people. I believe
in 83 days, we are going to elect a new governor.

SCHULTZ: John, what are we going to see as far as candidates, now
that there are -- there is a date set by the Government Accountability
Board? What does this mean?

JOHN NICHOLS, "THE NATION": Let me be clear, the Government
Accountability Board still could be pressured on this. I think we do have
a date. I think we know where we`re going. But we`ll see some candidates
holding back for a little bit more.

What we know is this: Kathleen Falk, the former Dane County executive,
is running hard, and she has a good deal of union support. Kathleen
Vinehout, one of the Wisconsin 14 state senators, is running sort of a
rural populist campaign, not a lot of money, but a lot of passion there.

There is a great deal of talk that Wisconsin Secretary of State Doug
Lafollett may be get in the race. He seems to be sending signals. And
everybody is watching Tom Barrett, the current mayor of Milwaukee and the
2010 Democratic candidate. And he`s running for reelection. His election
is April 3rd. What that means is there is -- would be time on this time
line for him to be reelected and then pivot into a gubernatorial race.

SCHULTZ: Mike, what do you hear, if anything, about Russ Feingold,
the former senator, possibly getting in? Or Senator Herb Kohl may be going
after this position?

TATE: There has been a lot of talk about both of those men.
Obviously, great public servants, both very -- remain very popular even
though Russ lost in 2010. He still remains very popular. I have spoken
with both of them. I`m sure John talked to Russ and others as well.

It`s just Herb Kohl is retiring after a very distinguished career,
lots of time. He`s 77 years old. I think he`s looking at spending some
time watching more Bucks games back home.

SCHULTZ: What about the money? What about the money? There is going
to be a bunch of money pouring in to support Walker. How are the Democrats
going to fare in that regard?

TATE: Here is one of the things, Ed, I think that this is going to be
one of those rare situations where the candidate with the most money
doesn`t necessarily win. Scott Walker has already outspent progressives 12
to one since we started collecting petitions in November.

And his numbers have stayed the same or gotten worse. So I think that
this may be a problem that Scott Walker can not buy his way out of, with
all the Koch Brother money in the world.

SCHULTZ: Yes. John Nichols, this is an unprecedented recall effort
in American history. You got four senators. What are the chances of these
four Republicans being defeated and the power swinging back to the
Democrats in the Senate?

NICHOLS: Well, you`re right, Ed. This is an unprecedented election.
You`re talking about something that has never happened before, where in a
single election -- recall election, you would see both the executive branch
and the legislative branch switch power.

And what we know is that Governor Walker is very vulnerable. What is
interesting is that of the four state senators who have been targeted for
recall, three of them represent districts that voted for Barack Obama. I
think there is a real good possibility you see the Senate switch.

SCHULTZ: All right, Mike Tate and John Nichols, the date, June 5th.
We`ll sure cover it. Thanks so much.

Coming up, Sarah Palin says she is willing to debate the president any
time, anywhere. I hope it`s 8:00 p.m. On MSNBC. Stay tuned. You`re
watching THE ED SHOW. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Sarah Palin challenges President Obama to a debate? The
former Alaska governor says that she would gladly debate President Obama
anytime, anywhere. Really?

She is a little upset with the latest ad from the Obama campaign. The
video highlights race baiting remarks that Palin made on Fox News
discussing President Obama`s relationship with Professor Derrick Bell.
Even though Palin did make the remarks, she is calling the president`s
campaign tactics divisionary. Here is a portion of the ad. Take a look.


been, I think, seen in the conventional, traditional way of we who would
describe a man of valor. And his profession as a community organizer, what
went into his thinking this philosophy of radicalism.

He is bringing us back, Sean, to days of -- you could harken back to
days before the Civil War.


SCHULTZ: Wow. Palin responded on her Facebook page, I`m not running
for any office, but I`m more than happy to accept the dubious honor of
being Barack Obama`s enemy of the week, if that includes the opportunity to
debate him on the issues Americans are actually concerned about.

How about just fixing the last movie that just came out about you?
Anyway, the righties at the website "Human Events" think a Palin-Obama
debate would be a great deal. One writer, gloating the president, said
"what`s the matter, McFly? You`re not chicken, are you?"

Pretty bold, especially considering this recent glimpse into a Palin
debate prep session.


JULIANNE MOORE, ACTRESS: All this talk and jibber jabber about where
global warming comes from defeats -- defeats, you know, the point that it`s
getting hotter and that we all need to be very concerned about heat and
that -- I -- I`ve got it and it`s not in -- Mark, it`s not my fault the
cards are supposed to be in this pile.


WOODY HARRELSON, ACTOR: OK, I think we need to take a break.


SCHULTZ: If they did debate, do you think she would say "can I call
you Barack?"

Next, Sean Hannity claims the video of the president and Harvard
Professor Derrick Bell has been hidden for years. The culprit at the
center of this outrageous cover-up, Professor Charles Ogletree, joins me
next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: ED SHOW survey tonight, I asked what is more important to
Newt Gingrich? Ninety nine percent of you said his ego; one percent of you
said his country. We don`t get a 99 to one very often.

Coming up, Harvard Law Professor Charles Ogletree is my exclusive
guest. He`s here to respond to Sean Hannity`s attacks on him and his
friend, Derrick Bell. Stay tuned.



SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: We revealed the video that by their
very own admission, friends of Barack Obama have been keeping under lock
and key.


SCHULTZ: Oh, lock and key does it every time. Welcome back to THE ED
SHOW, Of course, that is Sean Hannity with the big news about a video of
President Obama hugging a college professor, Derrick Bell.

What we haven`t focused on, until this broadcast, is Hannity`s
conviction about how another professor, Charles Ogletree, kept the video
under lock and key.


HANNITY: It`s interesting, in 2011, another professor at Harvard,
Professor Ogletree, actually played this tape. And then says this at the
end of it. And I want to play it for you and I have a question out of it.

interesting when you think about it -- of course we his this throughout the
2008 campaign, so -- I don`t care if they find it now.

HANNITY: Of course we hid it.


SCHULTZ: Absolutely! If hidden -- if you consider ABC and PBS, which
aired the tape in 2008, hidden. Obama was the president of the Harvard Law
Review at the time and Professor Bell was protesting for greater diversity
on the Harvard Law faculty.


your minds to the words Professor Derrick Bell.


SCHULTZ: I am joined tonight by Professor Charles Ogletree, the Jesse
Clemenko Professor of Law at the -- and the director of the Charles
Hamilton Houston Institute for Race and Justice at Harvard Law School.

Professor, great to have you with us tonight.

OGLETREE: My pleasure.

SCHULTZ: How in the world did you keep that tape under wraps all
those years? How did you keep it under lock and key so successfully?

OGLETREE: I`m afraid I didn`t, Ed. If you look at the tape and look
at my presentation, I`m laughing, the audience is laughing. Because every
time you say something about Obama, folks will find a way to making it into
a cause celebre.

The tape was actually taped in 1990s. It was taped by WGBH. It`s
been aired. It`s on Youtube. It`s been available. As soon as Hannity
made this claim that it was hidden, which was a joke, the reality is that
"Frontline" had to come out and say, wait a minute, we taped Obama and his
student members of the Law Review in 2008 before the election. That tape
has been online since 2008. It`s on Youtube.

And so whole idea of the secrecy was the same joke about is he a
Muslim. No he`s not. He`s a Christian. The same joke about just a week
ago -- about whether he`s a citizen. No, he`s a Birther who is born in
Kenya, not in Hawaii. The same people who said he`s not a citizen because
he`s a Mulatto.

So every time you bring up the name Barack Obama, people who hate him
will come up with something.

I love Barack Obama. I love Derrick Bell. I`m having an event to
memorialize Professor Bell at Harvard on March 28th at 5:30. Ed, you`re
welcome to come. You`ll see the audience will be full of people. And most
of them will be white. Most of them will be women. Most of them will be
supporters of a guy who was very much moderate, very considerate and a
scholar in the work that he did over the last 40 years as a teacher.

SCHULTZ: Professor Ogletree, how did you react when you first heard
that this tape was going to be made out to be a big deal and part of a
cover up and conspiracy? What was your reaction?

OGLETREE: My first reaction, Ed, was to ignore it. Glenn Beck a year
ago said Ogletree was part of the Black Power Movement in 1970. I was in
high school. I was a junior. Ed.

He said I was the editor of the Black Panther Newspaper. I was at
Stanford in 1971, editing the black student newspaper. He said that I went
to Angela Davis` trial every day. I`m an honors graduate from Stanford. I
could not have gone to the trial every day.

He said I call -- Angela calls me Tree. Everybody calls me Tree. And
it`s that sense about people trying to find anything that will hurt this
president that makes no sense at all. So I`m going to keep praying for
both Hannity and all the other folks who have this sense of trying to bring
the president down.

He`s a great man. He`s done a great job. He is going to be reelected
in November. No matter what people say, he is the best choice. I am going
to be out there for him. They can call me whatever they want to call me,
as long as they don`t call me Chuck and as long as they don`t call me
something else out of name that makes no sense at all.

SCHULTZ: Professor, how disturbed were you when you saw that this was
nothing but a personal assassination attack on Professor Bell, who you knew
very well, and very connected to? How did you feel when he became a target
in all of this, to try to prove to people out there that, well, President
Obama is really a radical and hanging around radicals?

OGLETREE: Well, it breaks my heart, Ed, because Professor Bell was a
great man. He was my teacher. He was a teacher of my daughter, Rashida
Ogletree George (ph), who went to NYU. She was also a teaching assistant.

I spoke at his memorial at Riverside Church last year. I lectured at
one of his last classes in September, 2011. I read his books.

SCHULTZ: So it was gut wrenching to you. It was really unfair and
gut wrenching to you. And this is just an example of they will stop --
they will never stop anywhere when it comes to trashing people to get their
point across to take down this president. That is what this is about,
isn`t it?

OGLETREE: They can trash me all they want to. But they need to leave
Derrick Bell alone because people -- 5000 new people have gone to look at
his website to learn about him. That is what it really has done.

They have shriveled this guy who was a well-known constitutional
scholar, taught at predominantly white schools, had very large following of
white women and men, and then make him sound like he`s a racist or radical
is just unacceptable.

And so we will defend him. And you know what? This has shed a lot of
light on a great scholar, a great teacher and a great man.

SCHULTZ: Professor, thank you for the invitation. I appreciate it so
much. And thanks for joining us tonight on THE ED SHOW.

OGLETREE: Always a pleasure.

SCHULTZ: You bet. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz.


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