The Ed Show for Tuesday, March 27, 2012
Read the transcript to the Tuesday show
Guests: Eugene Robinson, Daryl Parks, James Peterson, Jamie Raskin, Nicole Lamoureux, Jerry
ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.
The biggest development in the Trayvon Martin case broke late today,
the alarming detail shines a new light on the good old boy network`s
mishandling of the case and will make the George Zimmerman apologist eat
This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON: Trayvon is your son. A lot of
people can relate to our situation. And it breaks their heart just like it
SCHULTZ (voice-over): Exclusive revelations in the Trayvon Martin
case. An investigator wanted George Zimmerman arrested, but he was
overruled. The Martin family attorney is here to react.
Righties can`t stand that the Trayvon Martin nightmare is a national
news story, and they are lashing out at MSNBC.
BERNIE GOLBERG: If Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by another
black teenager, the media would not be running this on television for hours
and hours on end.
SCHULTZ: Tonight, I`m taking Bill O`Reilly and Bernard Goldberg to
An explosive day of testimony at the Supreme Court.
JUSTICE ANTHONY KENNEDY, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Can you create commerce
in order to regulate it?
SOLICITOR GENERAL DONALD VERRILLI: That`s not what`s going on here,
Justice Kennedy, and we`re not seeking to defend the law on that basis.
SCHULTZ: The health care of millions of Americans hangs in the
balance. We`ll have the latest.
And it`s a new low in campaign advertising.
AD NARRATOR: That a rogue world nation and sworn American enemy has
become a nuclear threat.
SCHULTZ: Republicans threaten an apocalypse and compare the president
to a madman. The one and only Jerry Springer is here to react.
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
Well, the lead investigator in the Trayvon Martin shooting wanted to
charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter but the higher ups told him not
to press charges. This is the biggest piece of information to come out of
this case since the day Trayvon Martin was killed. This latest report
comes from ABC News, according to multiple sources.
Investigator Chris Serino was instructed not to press charges because
the state`s attorney office headed by Norm Wolfinger determined there
wasn`t enough evidence to lead to a conviction.
Serino filed an affidavit on February 26th, the night Martin was shot
and killed by Zimmerman that stated that he was unconvinced by Zimmerman`s
version of events.
Now, let`s grasp that for just a moment. The lead homicide
investigator was questioning the shooters story. He didn`t buy it. He
recommended a manslaughter charge.
But the state attorney who has since been removed from the case told
the investigator back off.
Want to nope why there`s outrage. George Zimmerman was not charged
and Trayvon`s body sat in a morgue for three days before his parents were
contacted. Don`t you think somebody needs to explain that?
If you`re still wondering why there`s so much outrage surrounding this
case, these latest reports really ought to clear that up for you, folks.
The outrage was on display in the nation`s capital. Protesters gathered
outside the White House and the Justice Department to demand answers.
Some members of Congress are trying to draw attention to the need of
federal enforcement of racial profiling and hate crime laws. On the Senate
and House floors today, lawmakers highlight the continued profiling of
young black men in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)(
REP. FREDERICA WILSON (D), FLORIDA: Trayvon died because of racial
profiling 31 days ago. If you walk into any inner city high school in the
African-American community, Mr. Speaker, and ask the students, have you
ever been racially profiled? Trust me -- every one of them will raise
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee organized a forum
to focus on racial profiling and hate crime issues. Trayvon Martin`s
parents were invited guest of the forum and spoke about the need to find
justice for their son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FULTON: Trayvon was our son. Trayvon is your son. A lot of people
can relate to our situation and it breaks their heart just like it breaks
TRACY MARTIN, TRAYVON MARTIN`S FATHER: Thank you to everyone who is
supportive of our family. Everyone who`s helped us stand tall in this
matter. Everyone who is holding the legacy of Trayvon and making sure that
he did not indeed die in vain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Injustice is the main reason this story continues to receive
attention. Where there`s smoke, there`s fire.
The latest report of rejected manslaughter charges shows the wheels of
justice were being prevented from turning. How do you think the American
people are going to react to that?
Now, there are new investigators in charge of the case. Let`s hope
the conclusions of these investigators are not dismissed the way Chris
Get your cell phones out, I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: Will George Zimmerman ever be charged with the killing of Trayvon
Martin? Text A for yes and text B for no to 622639. You can leave a
comment at our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on
in the show.
Now, this is a big development. An investigator, a lead investigator
wanted to file charges. The state`s attorney says, no, back off. That
state`s attorney is no longer in the case investigating. They are new
people handling it in the legal arena.
I`m joined tonight by Daryl Parks, an attorney for the family of
Mr. Parks, good to have you with us tonight.
This is -- the culture of this story now is there`s one leak after
another. This is a hell of a leak from inside the power structure within
the wheels of justice, so to speak. The legal end of it and, of course,
the police department.
What`s your reaction to this report of about manslaughter charges
being dropped from the investigation when the lead investigator wanted to
DARYL PARKS, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, I think he`s exactly right
from the beginning. As you look at the evidence in this case, almost
everyone comes to the conclusion that this man should have been charged.
And now we see after the covers have been pulled back that the lead
investigator felt exactly the same way.
SCHULTZ: Does this fuel the emotions of everything that surrounds
PARKS: Yes, it does. Unfortunately, it makes these parents keep
having to go through the pain every day of feeling this. I mean, this type
of revelation which we`re just now learning about where the state
attorney`s office for whatever reason stopped him from filing those
charges. He should have been charged that night and that investigator had
SCHULTZ: There has been so much public scrutiny surrounding this
case. It seems to me and I`m speculating here, that the lead investigator
might have felt that he was being professionally tarnished, maybe wanting
the public to know he thought manslaughter charges should have been filed
yet they hadn`t been filed. It`s the perfect scenario for a leak, don`t
PARKS: Yes, it is. That`s why it`s coming out now.
SCHULTZ: Well, are you hopeful that the new investigators will use
this information to properly prosecute this case?
PARKS: I`m more than confident. You know, we met with them several
times through the last couple of days. I feel very confident about what
Prosecutor Corey is going to do. Also, I feel very confident the
investigator she has on the ground, working on this case.
They are doing an excellent job. They have promised that they will
make sure that everything is looked at in this particular case. And they
are doing just that.
They are in Sanford right now. They`re working and the family feels
very comfortable with what they`re doing. We plan to assist them as much
as we can.
SCHULTZ: OK. Mr. Parks, you`re giving us new information tonight.
You`re telling us that the family now believes that there will be charges
filed and you -- with the legal team thinking that this is going to be
enough to see some charges filed? That you think the wheels of justice are
PARKS: I think they are moving. I think -- what I`m saying to you is
the investigation is going on, I don`t think this one tidbit of
information, this certainly brings about a great piece of evidence they can
use to say the guy that investigated it first feels as if charges should be
filed. I think it`s great piece of evidence to push the prosecutor on in
SCHULTZ: But you`ve had indications from the prosecutor that there`s
probably going to be charges?
PARKS: No, no. I`m not saying that.
PARKS: I`m saying they`re on the ground. They are working very hard.
And they`re checking all the facts.
I believe once they check the facts, I believe, personally, that they
will find enough to charge him.
SCHULTZ: So, it`s your professional opinion that you think charge
will be filed based on what you`ve been told?
PARKS: Yes, sir.
SCHULTZ: All right. You --
PARKS: Not based on what I`ve told. Based on what I`ve seen on the
PARKS: Based on the 911 case. Based on the witnesses we`ve talked
to. We are very confident that charges will be filed.
SCHULTZ: All right. You use the word confidence. This is -- the
city attorney, a manager Nelson Bonaparte today talking about confidence.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON BONAPARTE, SANFORD CITY MANAGER: We heard from residents last
night concerns they have regarding the Sanford Police Department. So, I am
now in the process of talking with the Department of Justice and
instituting a mechanism whereby citizens that have concerns or complaints
about the Sanford Police Department can have their concerns heard and
investigating by an independent agency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Does this come into play at all with the investigation
surrounding the death of Trayvon Martin?
PARKS: It totally comes into play. I think that some of the steps
that we saw from law enforcement in the shoddy investigation that took
place, it was so bad we believe there was witness tampering among some of
the witnesses. Many of the witnesses who we talked to old us that they
were not encouraged to say certain things, they were discouraged. The
whole process was flawed.
So, we believe that once they start talking with the witnesses and I
think it`s important that you know here that in this investigation, yes,
you have the state investigation going on, which is the main criminal
investigation, but you have the FBI looking at some of the actions of the
department as well.
SCHULTZ: All right. Daryl Parks, appreciate your time tonight.
Thanks so much.
Now, let`s turn to Eugene Robinson, MSNBC political analyst and
associate editor and columnist for "The Washington Post".
Eugene, does this fuel the anger in any way, this revelation that the
manslaughter charges change this case. What do you make of it?
EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it does
change the case. But I think the important part is that the lead
investigator did not find George Zimmerman`s account of events credible.
That callous the whole view of the case because sequence of events that
relates that Trayvon Martin started the fight, that he was bashing his head
and he was in danger, those -- that account comes into question, including
who started the fight, who approached whom? How did the encounter begin?
And, obviously, some of that stuff, the lead investigator didn`t buy.
SCHULTZ: Many on the right wing have almost gone so far to come to
the aid of Zimmerman saying that the facts are on his side. Now that this
comes out, aren`t they now in a position of asking us to believe people who
simply were not there instead of believing the lead investigator who
thought that manslaughter charges should have been filed?
ROBINSON: Well, that`s absolutely right, Ed. What are the facts?
The facts are that an unarmed 17-year-old young man was walking home
from a convenient store, was stalked by this guy he didn`t know in an SUV
and then on foot, a guy who had a gun. And there was an encounter and the
young man is shot dead by the guy that was stalking him. Those are the
So, how can you take that set of facts and say they are on Zimmerman`s
SCHULTZ: Exactly. And there`s so much mud slinging that`s taking
place. The right wing is speaking from no authority. This investigator is
speaking from a professional position of authority that he thought
manslaughter charges should have been filed.
Shouldn`t that erase all the mud slinging that`s been going on towards
ROBINSON: I think it should. I mean, you know, ideology is not going
to decide the outcome of this case. It`s going to be the facts. It`s
going to be the investigation. It`s going to be the credibility of those
who Zimmerman who participated in the events or witnesses interviewed and
apparently not yet interviewed who might have seen or heard something.
So, that`s what`s going to determine the outcome. It`s not going to
be blowhards who have a political point to make on the right.
SCHULTZ: Eugene Robinson you have written extensively about the
"Stand Your Ground" laws. Your take on -- was the table set for something
horrific to take place?
ROBINSON: Absolutely. I think the "Stand Your Ground" law -- you
know, the more I look into them, I realize there was a reason why -- a nub
of a reason to pass some of these laws. In some states, they were
concerned about domestic violence and women who might have no choice but
deadly force to stand up against an abusive male in the house. But as
written, especially the statute in Florida, it`s really a license to kill.
It`s encouragement for any hothead with a gun to shoot first and ask
And it`s unnecessary. It`s unneeded. The law already takes self-
defense into account. There are prosecutors in Florida who have terrible
problems with this law who say it`s essentially a license for gang members
to have shoot outs in bars and claim self-defense.
SCHULTZ: Eugene Robinson, always great work. Great to have you with
us tonight. Thank you.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We always want to know
what you think.
The right wingers, they are doing their absolute best to smear Trayvon
Martin. Dr. James Peterson weighs on in the latest talking points and I`ll
And Rush Limbaugh still thinks women`s reproductive care is all about
sex. If the Affordable Care Act is struck down, women will take a huge
hit. Nicole Lamoureux, the executive director of the National Association
of Free and Chartable Clinics will join me on that subject.
Stay with us. We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, the righties on FOX, well, they`re not quite sure
why the Trayvon Martin case is being covered in the media. My commentary
The Supreme Court debates the individual mandates. We`ll discuss
today`s hearing with constitutional law professor, Jamin Raskin.
And who does Rick Santorum think the sworn American enemy is. We`ll
show you his new web ad and talk to Jerry Springer. That`s right -- Jerry
Springer, here tonight, later on the hour.
Share your thoughts on Twitter using #EdShow.
We`re right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: The hypocrisy and the sanctimony of the national press and
the civil rights establishment is appalling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Sanctimonious, is that what he`s trying to say?
The righties over on FOX -- they can`t stand that the Trayvon Martin
controversy and murder is in the headlines. They think the mainstream
media and MSNBC are race-bating.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: If Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by another black
teenager, President Obama wouldn`t have weighed in, Al Sharpton wouldn`t be
holding rallies, the media would not be running this on television for
hours and hours on end. If the person that shot him were black, the media
would ignore the story the way it ignores almost every other story
involving black on black crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: If, if and a few more ifs. Bernard Goldberg doesn`t have a
clue what the hell he`s talking about. If the killer was black, and I
asked my radio listeners this today, if the killer was black -- would he be
in jail right now? Yes. Yes, he would. That`s where America stands on
This story is about justice and injustice. A young black man is dead
and the man who muttered racial slurs and has a record of doing so, as he
stalked Trayvon Martin is walking free tonight. Bernie, don`t you think
that`s a story?
Righties like Bernard Goldberg, they want to put their head in the
sand and pretend racism, it`s just not a big deal anymore. We dealt with
that years ago, everything is fine. The righties on FOX News don`t want to
talk about gun laws that get jammed down people`s throat and lead to
situations like this. Instead, they want to pretend that anyone who points
out the injustices in cases like Trayvon Martin`s death are just nothing
but race hustlers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: Delric Wayman Miller was a 9-month-old black baby sound
asleep in his house in Detroit when in the early morning hours just a few
weeks ago someone opened fire with an AK-47 and shot into the house 37
times. One of the bullets hit and killed the little baby.
The only thing I could think of, Bill, was why they made one story
into a national story and the other they ignored is because in one case,
shooter had light skin and in the other case the shooter had dark skin.
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Well, last week, we did a story on the South
Side of Chicago where there were 49 shootings over the St. Patrick`s
weekend, 49, all right? Resulting in, I think, 14 or 15 dead including a
6-year-old girl whose face we did put on the screen. And it was black on
black crime. It was generated by gang activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: There is a huge difference between those cases and Trayvon
Martin. And let me point them out. Police are looking for the killers in
those cases and if they find them, they will arrest them. Guaranteed, no
doubt. Those were drive-by shootings where they don`t have a suspect.
The Trayvon Martin case exposes major problems for conservatives and
instead of dealing with the issues, they call people like me a race baiter.
We know who did the shooting here. We know what the lead investigator
wanted. We know what the states attorney refused to do and injustice,
justice, injustice in our society needs to be played out on forums like
Not to mention, there are laws that are being passed around the
country. Bernie, I don`t know if you`re aware of this or not, but this
outfit called ALEC and, oh, yes, the National Rifle Association, they are
bankrolling all of these legislative decisions that are being to jam laws
like "Stand Your Ground" down your throats when the citizens aren`t crying
There`s a lot of different pieces to this puzzle. But it`s easy to
broad brush and say, the damn media is out there picking and choosing and
race bating. Really? You can call me a race baiter until the cows come
home. I know what`s wrong in this case, and I know for sure that there`s
no question that there have been some real failures here that need to be
discussed -- every night I might add.
Let`s turn to Dr. James Peterson, director of Africana studies and
associate professor of English at Lehigh University.
First of all, I`m curious before we get to this, what are your
JAMES PETERSON, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: Students are feeling compassion.
They`re feeling vulnerable. Especially young students of color right now
are wondering what society do we live in.
SCHULTZ: This is a story that has a real impact on young people.
PETERSON: It really has because it makes them feel vulnerable. It
makes them feel we live in a society where there`s an absence of justice
depending upon the color of your screen. That`s a serious challenge for a
young person in school trying to be an upstanding citizen in America.
SCHULTZ: What do you make of Goldberg`s comments there and their
media analysis? Some get covered, some don`t.
PETERSON: Oh, it`s insane. I mean, I`m glad you pointed out some of
the differences here. But let`s be very, very clear. We`re talking about
an absence of justice here. I`m curious as to what is all this sort of
right wing media attention being paid to the demonization of Trayvon and
being paid late now in the game to this particular case trying to somehow
defend it or distract us from what the real situation is here.
And the only thing I can come up is they are invested in protecting
and insulating the NRA and their lobbying policies and really honestly when
it comes down to it, they are protecting institutional racism.
SCHULTZ: All of this speculation by the right wing, these right wing
broadcasters and radio guys out there that say, well, Trayvon, you know, he
was suspended from school, he had some issues out there. You know,
shouldn`t all of that be cast aside number one to protect him because he
can`t speak for himself. But also the lead investigator, wanted to press
PETERSON: Right. In a court of law, if we`re fair and balanced the
way we should be, those things won`t be objected to and immediately thrown
out anyway. I mean, the fact there was an investigator on the scene who
wanted to arrest him and somehow there are other folks who wanted to apply
the stand your ground law shows us there`s a lot of problems around what
happened in the immediate aftermath of the murder of Trayvon Martin.
SCHULTZ: So, why is the right wing trying to paint a miscarriage of
justice as something ideological?
PETERSON: This is very --
SCHULTZ: There are absolutes here. The absolutes are this. This man
left his vehicle and tracked the kid down. There are absolutes that he was
PETERSON: He shot him.
SCHULTZ: That`s right. There are absolutes. He was told not to do
that and the absolute is he put a bullet in the kid`s chest when he had no
authority to do that.
PETERSON: That`s right.
There are more though. He was in the morgue as a John Doe for three
days. The investigators didn`t use his cell phone to reach out to family
or any previous callers. The stand your ground law was applied immediately
without questioning anything.
They drug tested the corpse. They did a background check on the
corpse. They didn`t either on the perpetrator of the crime.
So, there`s a lot of absolutes here that don`t apply to what they are
talking about on FOX. Now, mind you, if we want to talk about gun laws and
violence and poverty and crime in the inner city, I`ll go on FOX and talk
all day about that. Let`s talk about the structural issues that create the
environment in which those thinks occur, and let`s address those things.
But to use this case as a way of trying to throw us off kilter and
distract us from the pursuit of justice here is a sad move.
SCHULTZ: Geraldo Rivera said something about this case last week and,
of course, here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS: I am urging the parents of blacks and
Latino youngsters to not let their children go out wearing hoodies. I
think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin`s death as
George Zimmerman was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Now he has e-mailed "Politico" stating -- I guess this is an
apology. "I have obscured the main point that someone shot and killed an
unarmed teenager. I apologize to anyone offended by what one prominent
black conservative called my very practical and potentially life-saving
campaign urging black and Hispanic parents not to let their children go
around wearing hoodies."
Is this an apology?
LEHIGH: Well, you know, I`ll accept the apology. But the bottom line
here is his statement, the original statement is capitulation to white
supremacy and the institution of racism that`s dogging this case. We
cannot allow the sartorial choices of individuals be some kind of
indication for them to be murdered in the street for no reason at all.
So, the bottom line is people are wearing hoodies is to draw attention
to the arbitration nature of this crime. It`s a very, very important piece
SCHULTZ: Finally, how big is this story compared to other injustices
that have been done? Is this really a game changer of sorts?
LEHIGH: It`s a game changer to the extent that we can acknowledge the
fact that racism still exists in our society, that is institutional and in
this individual subjects, and that we`ve got to address it progressively
LEHIGH: If we`re just going to get all excited about this and keep it
moving, then that`s the problem. We need to understand that Trayvon
Martin`s life has been lost. And in order to honor that, we need to
respect we have to address the issues of racism of our society right now.
SCHULTZ: Well, labeling it as media outrage and race-baiting and
everything else really does serious injustice to the whole process.
PETERSON: It does. It does.
SCHULTZ: Dr. James Peterson, always great to have you with us.
Another big day at the Supreme Court as the justices consider whether
the Affordable Care Act is constitutional, President Obama`s signature
legislation was under major scrutiny. That is next.
And Rick Santorum`s latest web ad predicts apocalypse? But we`ve seen
this desperation move before. Jerry Springer will be right here in studio
to sound off on Santorum`s last ditch effort and other politics.
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Today was day two of oral
arguments before the Supreme Court on whether the individual mandate of the
Affordable Health Care Act is Constitutional. The big question, does
Congress have the power to require people to buy health insurance?
Initially, the more conservative justices seem to side with the
opponents of the individual mandate. "If the government can force us to
buy health insurance," they asked, "can it force us to buy cell phones or
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT: So can the
government require you to buy a cell phone because that would facilitate
responding when you need emergency services?
SAMUEL ALITO, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: You know what you`re doing? You
are financing your burial services right now, because eventually you`re
going to die and somebody is going to have to pay for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, the questions is, is that all for the common good?
I`ll get to that in a moment. The so called swing vote on the court,
Justice Anthony Kennedy, also seemed skeptical.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY KENNEDY, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Assume for the moment -- you
may disagree. Assume for the moment that this is unprecedented. This is a
step beyond what our cases have allowed. The reason this is concerning is
because it requires the individual to do an affirmative act. That changes
the relationship of the federal government to the individual in a very
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: But when lawyers for the opposition spoke, both Justice
Kennedy and Chief Justice Roberts explained the government`s position
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: But they are in the market in the sense that they are
creating a risk that the market must account for.
ROBERTS: Everybody is in this market. So that makes it very
different than the market for cars or the other hypotheticals that you came
up with. And all they are regulating is how you pay for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Keep in mind, four justices are likely to uphold the law.
The government is looking for a fifth justice to rule in its favor.
I`m joined tonight by Maryland State Senator Jamie Raskin, also a
Constitutional law professor at American University, and senior fellow at -
- for the People for the American Way.
Mr. Raskin, good to have you with us tonight.
JAMIE RASKIN, MARYLAND STATE SENATOR: Delighted to be with you.
SCHULTZ: You bet. The common good clause in the Constitution,
doesn`t this come into play. I want to ask you right off the top, was
there anything that really jumped out at you today. How do you think the
five justices handled all of this, the conservative justices?
RASKIN: The main thing that jumps out at me is that we have got the
same partisan line up that gave us George W. Bush`s election in Bush versus
Gore and turned corporate treasuries into campaign slush funds in the
Citizens United case.
There`s very little attention being paid to what`s really at stake
here, which is Congress` power under the Commerce Clause to define the
common good and to regulate in the interest of a robust and integrated
You know, health care is one-sixth of our economy. We have 40 million
uninsured people out there. And when they go in for uncompensated care, it
costs the rest of us billions of dollars. So I think this is an easy case.
It`s a simple question, except, of course, it`s totally caught up in
election year politics.
I think we have got some extremely politicized justices who would not
dream of handing President Obama a victory in this election year.
SCHULTZ: Did you consider those statements that we just played pretty
RASKIN: Well, it all exists within a political frame. And the
political frame is this is unprecedented. Well, of course it`s
unprecedented. Every law is unprecedented. The Social Security Act was
unprecedented. The National Labor Relations Act was unprecedented. The
Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act was unprecedented. OSHA was
In each one, you had right wingers saying, oh my God, this is
unprecedented. It`s untested. It`s a brave new frontier. It`s an
infringement of liberty, et cetera, et cetera.
And yet the Supreme Court, when it`s thinking straight, has said each
of these is totally within Congress` power to regulate interstate commerce.
This goes back to the very beginning of republic. In 1824, conservative
Chief Justice John Marshall said in a case called Gibbons versus Ogden that
the Congress` power under the Commerce Clause is complete. It`s plenary.
It goes out to the limit.
The only limits on it are those other limits found within the
Constitution, like if it violates someone`s religious freedom or something.
SCHULTZ: I mean, this undermines -- if they strike this down, does
this undermine a representative government?
RASKIN: Well, of course it does. And this is an historical struggle.
It`s just like what happened with FDR and the Supreme Court, when the
Supreme Court was inventing magical new doctrines to undermine Congress`
power under the Commerce Clause to give workers the right to organize or to
intervene into agriculture markets.
But when we got through all of that, the Supreme Court, in a case
called Whicker versus Filburn said again that congress` powers are
expansive and great under the Commerce Clause to deal with all these
The irony here, of course, is that the individual mandate, which is so
much the subject of political controversy and hatred in the Republican
party now, was a Republican plan. It was hatched at the Heritage
Foundation. It was the centerpiece of Romneycare in Massachusetts.
Gingrich supported it. And of course, the majority of my party, the
Democratic party, would I think prefer to go to a single payer plan. But
it was a negotiation and a compromise with the Republican party and their
friends in the insurance industry that gave us the individual insurance
SCHULTZ: Mr. Raskin, there`s a lot on the bone, no question about it.
I appreciate your time tonight. We`ll have you back. Thank you.
We have more breaking news on the Trayvon Martin case. We`ll be right
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: If Obamacare is held
unconstitutional, then college coeds could face personal expenses. What
did we hear, 3,000 dollars, 1,000 dollars a year to have protected sex. So
free birth control pills would go by the wayside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Rush Limbaugh back at it. He just can`t get past his
obsession with birth control methods of college students. But the reality
is, if the Supreme Court strikes down President Obama`s health care law,
millions of people will suffer. Insurance companies could continue to deny
coverage to people with preexisting conditions.
They could stop paying the full cost of preventative services like
mammograms and cancer screenings. Young people would no longer be
guaranteed coverage on their parents` insurance plan. And women would
continue to be penalized because of their gender.
I want you to take a look at this map. This map of the United States
shows the health insurance gender discrimination before the Affordable
Health Care Act is fully enacted. Now in the yellow, orange and red state,
women pay up to 100 percent more for health insurance than men do. Who is
in favor of that?
In the blue states, it is legal for insurers -- it is illegal for
insurers to discriminate based on gender. Now I want to show you what will
happen starting in 2014 if the Affordable Care Act is completely enacted.
The whole map turns blue. Gender discrimination will be prohibited by
law everywhere in the United States of America. So Rush Limbaugh can`t
whine about birth control, but he`s ignoring the real affects that
President Obama`s historic health care reform and what it is all about.
Sometimes you just have to follow the basics. I want to bring in one
of the people that has been on the front lines of health care every day in
her professional career, Nicole Lamoureux. She`s the executive director of
the National Association Free and Charitable Clinics.
Nicole, good to have you back with us.
NICOLE LAMOUREUX, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FREE AND CHARITABLE CLINICS:
Thanks, Ed, for having me.
SCHULTZ: You bet. This health care law, if it is struck down, in
what ways is it going to especially affect women? I want you to set the
LAMOUREUX: Well, as you talked about before, there is something
called gender rating. That`s where women in some states pay anywhere from
20 to 80 percent more for the same exact coverage as a male. So if you
think about that, when you are a non-smoking woman -- this is one that
amazes me, Ed.
We saw a study where a non-smoking woman paid more than a -- I`m
sorry, a non-smoking male paid less than a person -- a woman who is
perfectly healthy. Someone who is working her way to have -- eat the right
food and do what`s good for herself is more than a man who is not taking
care of himself. That`s happening every day in this country.
SCHULTZ: So women get paid less in the workplace and they have to pay
more in the insurance arena. Now if women`s health is not dealt with
through what the president is now even calling Obamacare, what kind of
stress does that put on the system as a whole?
LAMOUREUX: As we know, if Obamacare as the Republicans like to call
it, is upheld, there are still going to be 29 million uninsured in this
country. If it is struck down, there`s going to be 60 million uninsured in
Half of those people will be women. Women are not going to have
access to mammograms, pap smear, cervical cancer tests, all of the things
that they need in order to make sure that they are healthy and take care of
The stress that we see is we`re seeing 40 to 50 percent more patients
at our clinics; 52 percent of them are women that are coming to our clinics
for help. If the ACA is not enacted, we know the stress is even going to
be more on the emergency rooms, on doctors` offices and on our clinics as
SCHULTZ: Nicole Lamoureux, great to have you with us tonight.
Speaking truth to power, telling like it is. Thanks so much.
SCHULTZ: Up next, there is more breaking news in the case of Trayvon
Martin. We`ll have all the details, next. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: More breaking news tonight in the Trayvon Martin case; the
special prosecutors in charge of deciding whether George Zimmerman will
face charges says she may make a decision about charges before a Grand Jury
Angela Corey told the "L.A. Times" her team is working at a rapid pace
on the investigation, but urged the public to show patience. Corey was
appointed to the case last week by Florida Governor Rick Scott. In her
interview with "The L.A. Times," Corey said "the only commitment I made to
our governor is that I will determine the facts and give Trayvon Martin`s
family the answers they deserve. But we want to give them complete
answers. It will also be up to Corey to determine whether race played a
role in the killing of Trayvon Martin."
When we return, in an act of desperation, Rick Santorum compares
President Obama to a brutal dictator. Jerry Springer joins me to weigh in
on the ugly Republican politics. That`s next.
SCHULTZ: ED SHOW survey tonight, I asked will George Zimmerman ever
be charged with the killing of Trayvon Martin? Sixty seven percent of you
said yes; 33 percent of you said no.
Coming up, the GOP is getting desperate. Jerry Springer is here for
his take on Rick Santorum`s latest web ad and so much more of the dirty
Don`t forget, you can listen to me on Sirius XM radio, channel 127,
Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00 pm. Follow me on Twitter @EdShow and
like THE ED SHOW on Facebook.
We are right back.
SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, Rick Santorum is getting
desperate again. His campaign has released a web ad showing a dire vision
of America if President Obama wins a second term. Let me tell you, the ad,
it is a doozy. It sends a subliminal message, no question about it. See
if you can catch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine a small American town two years from now
if Obama is reelected. Small businesses are struggling and families are
worried about their jobs and their future. The wait to see a doctor is
Gas prices through the roof. And the freedom of religion under
attack. Every day, the residents of this town must come to grips with the
harsh reality that a rogue nation and sworn American enemy has become a
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Now did you see the flash between the shots of Ahmadinejad?
Watch it again. This time we`ll freeze the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rogue nation and sworn American enemy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Oh, yeah; a shot of President Obama flashes on the screen
while the narrator is talking about a "sworn American enemy." The Santorum
campaign is proud of their comparison between the president of the United
States and Ahmadinejad.
The strategist behind the ad said "if this scare a few people and even
if they say it`s over the top, maybe they want to learn more. It would be
a mistake on our part if we weren`t sounding an alarm in a sensational
Rick Santorum is taking fear mongering to a whole new level. And he
thinks it`s completely acceptable.
I want to turn to my friend, talk show host Jerry Springer here on THE
ED SHOW TONIGHT. Pleasure to see you.
JERRY SPRINGER, TALK SHOW HOST: It`s great seeing you.
SCHULTZ: It`s been too long.
SPRINGER: I love this.
SCHULTZ: It`s goofy out there, isn`t it?
SPRINGER: It is. Well, what I was just saying during the break is
you`re dealing -- the people you deal with are as crazy as the people I
deal with except you guys dress better. I mean, that -- that ad, that
commercial -- first of all, the good news is it would never be run in a
general election. This is the kind of commercial you run in a primary,
when there`s a contest on the Republican side now to see who can hate Obama
But it could so scare the independent voter in America, so I don`t
think we need to get too worried about it.
SCHULTZ: It really is. The GOP seems to center everything around how
they despise the president. Do you feel that way?
SPRINGER: Absolutely. Look, I was no fan of George Bush. But I
still understood he was the president of the United States. I never --
even when we were arguing over the war in Iraq, it never for one second
dawned on me or did I think that President Bush wanted to destroy America,
wanted what was bad for America.
We disagreed. A lot of people disagreed with him on what the right
tack was. But here it is Obama -- he isn`t one of us. Show him with a
picture of Ahmadinejad. It`s this hatred, which is -- what do you tell
your children? This is how we treat the president of the United States?
SCHULTZ: Well, this is what I want to ask you. What do you think
it`s doing to the country, if anything?
SPRINGER: Well, I think people are turned off with politics. Of
course, that favors the establishment because the establishment will always
have the money and will always have the votes. They show up to vote. They
have the money to run the campaigns. So the laws that get passed always
favor the rich and the wealthy.
That`s the system. If they can keep middle America turned off about
politics, which is why nay flood the airways with negative ads, making us -
- how many people have you heard say, ah, plague on all their houses; it`s
politics; I don`t even want to talk about it; it`s filthy; it`s disgusting?
Every commercial you see on television is a negative ad saying how bad
our system is. It`s as if everyone running for office is either a crook or
someone who hates America, don`t let them near your children. Well, if
people growing -- grow up believing that, they no longer want to
And if the masses of people don`t participate, it`s the same theory
about keep people away from voting, don`t let them get registered. Let`s
see your driver`s license.
Turn people off from politics, because if you can do that, then those
people in charge will very quietly be able to pass everything they want
passed and the rest of us get screwed.
SCHULTZ: Well, you`ve hit on a lot of things here. But Citizens
United is changing the framework about how we do politics in this country.
And the voter suppression that`s taking place, your thoughts on that?
SPRINGER: Well, it`s very clear, what, in 38 states in terms of voter
suppression. They have been trying to pass legislation which keeps people
away from the polls, particularly people who are minorities, lower income
people. They clearly trying -- because they figure if they can keep
enough, for example, African-Americans away from the polls on election day,
that could be enough in some swing states to make the election go for the
So that is a very clear national strategy.
SCHULTZ: We have got the Supreme Court on the verge of a big
decision. They say that they`re going to have it done by June. What if
the mandate is thrown out and ruled unconstitutional. Where does that
leave the country, in your opinion, when it comes to health care?
SPRINGER: Well, the whole law will be thrown out then, because you
can`t have -- for example, the things we like -- that most people like --
even if people argument against the individual mandate, the idea that
you`ll be able to carry your children until they`re 26, the idea that
preexisting conditions -- an insurance company can`t keep you away because
of that, all those things will go down the drain.
You have to have the individual mandate, because if you don`t have the
individual mandate, people will only buy insurance when they are sick. If
only the people who are sick buy insurance, there`s not enough money in the
pool to have health insurance.
So the whole law will go out. I think then the fight in America will
be either single payer versus not having health insurance. And that will
be the great divide in America, more so than we see today.
SCHULTZ: That is the big fight that`s on the horizon if this is
struck down. And I think it is going to come pretty fast. I think you`re
SPRINGER: What do we have against it?
SCHULTZ: Well, the Republicans have nothing on the table for health
care, other than to throw it to the private sector. And people`s rates are
going through the roof. Over a five year period, my wife and I have seen
our rates go up 40 percent.
Now who -- the average family can put up with those kind of rates.
Quickly, we`re in the middle of a justice/injustice story with the death of
Trayvon Martin. What do you make of it? Where are we? The right wing is
SPRINGER: Why would they say, for example, well, we wouldn`t talk
about it if it was a black man who shot a black teenager?
SCHULTZ: If it was a black kid that did the shooting, he would be
SPRINGER: Number one, he would be behind bars. And number two, it
obviously wouldn`t be a race issue. The reason we are concerned about this
is because at least based on the 911 calls we kept hearing, and the history
of this man, as it`s being reported in the news, it clearly is the fact
that he was an African-American kid. That played a role in this guy
carrying a gun, wanting to go after him and get him.
That is a big issue in America. And every parent of an African-
American child knows that`s an issue. Everyone gets scared about that.
Every parent does.
SCHULTZ: Jerry Springer, come back to THE ED SHOW. Great to have
SPRINGER: I would love it. It`s free. This is great.
SCHULTZ: Thanks so much.
That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts
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