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The Ed Show for Friday, April 13, 2012

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Guests: Karen Finney, Richard Wolffe, Sheldon Whitehouse

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from Minneapolis.

Mitt Romney unloaded a mountain of lies at the NRA convention today,
but it was Ann Romney who was the real star of the show. And the president
is responding to Mitt Romney`s numbers on unemployed women.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


ANN ROMNEY, MITT ROMNEY`S WIFE: Let me give a shout-out to all moms
that are working.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The Romney campaign is trying to disguise their
anti-woman policies. And Rush Limbaugh is lending a hand.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: If I had a daughter, she would
look like Ann Romney.

SCHULTZ: Karen Finney and Richard Wolffe on today`s Ann Romney

New polling proves America loves the Buffett Rule.

paying a lower tax rate than a truck driver like you.

SCHULTZ: Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is fighting for fairness before
Monday`s big vote. And he joins me tonight.

Newark Mayor Cory Booker plays superhero for a day, and he`s saving
his neighbor from a fire.

Newark`s finest are here on THE ED SHOW tonight.

And 100 years after it sank, we`re getting the most detailed look at
the Titanic. Tonight, we`re taking you to the bottom of the ocean.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

The Republicans have found their new rock star and it ain`t Mitt


would like to introduce. This is a hero of mine. I happen to believe that
all moms are working moms, and if you have five sons, why your work is
never over. My sweetheart, Ann Romney.


SCHULTZ: Ann Romney has been pushed to the forefront of the campaign.
She`s the best thing the Romney campaign has going for them right now.
She`s warm, she`s likable, she can speak clearly on the issues.

Ann Romney joined her husband at a surprise appearance at the NRA`s
annual meeting.

Earlier, the Romney campaign did not miss an opportunity to appeal to
women voters.


A. ROMNEY: And this is what I love the most. Women are talking about
the economy and jobs, and about the legacy of debt that we`re going to
leave our children. We are mad about it, and we`re going to do it
something about it November.


SCHULTZ: The problem for the Republicans is Ann Romney isn`t running
for office. Her husband is. Needless to say, she stole the show.


A. ROMNEY: You know, I`ve heard recently something -- how women were
being referred to as a special interest group, and I thought to myself,
really only Washington could do that. There`s only one part of that phrase
that`s correct. Women are special.


SCHULTZ: What Mrs. Romney should have pointed out -- it`s the
Republican Party that considers women a special interest group. The
president recognizes that.


monolithic block. Women are not an interest group. You shouldn`t be
treated that way.


OBAMA: Women are over half this country and its work force.


SCHULTZ: And that`s why conservatives manufactured outrage over a
Democratic strategist on the going to hold water because this election
isn`t about Ann Romney`s choice to be a stay-at-home mom. This is about
her husband`s proposed policies and how they will impact women in this

And when it comes to equal pay and equal work, Romney`s campaign
couldn`t give a straight answer on where their candidate stands.


SAM STEIN, HUFFINGTON POST: Does Governor Romney support the Lilly
Ledbetter Act?


ROMNEY: Sam, we`ll get back to you on that.


SCHULTZ: But Mitt Romney wholeheartedly embraced the Ryan budget -- a
plan that would have -- devastating impact on poor and working families.
Mitt Romney says he`ll repeal Obamacare, taking away expanded health care
access ands benefits for millions of women in this country.

Mitt Romney supported the Blunt Amendment and still does, which allows
bosses to deny female employee contraception coverage. He says he will get
rid of Planned Parenthood, which provides health care for millions of

And now, Mitt Romney has picked up support from two top anti-abortion
groups, the National Right to Life Committee and the Susan B. Anthony List.
Both groups vow to pour millions of dollars into this election to turn back
the clock on women`s rights in America.

It`s pretty good endorsement for the Etch a Sketch candidate
considering he ran for governor of Massachusetts on a pro-choice platform.


SCHULTZ: I will preserve and protect a woman`s right to choose. And
I`m devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard.


SCHULTZ: But all that flip-flopping doesn`t seem to matter. The
groups are convinced that Mitt`s going to stick with his position this time


people who have changed their position. Mitt Romney admits that he has
done that, and we`re happy to be working with him.


SCHULTZ: The GOP may be trying to disguise their policies on women by
leaning on Ann Romney. But the Democrats are calling them out on it.

I sat down with Vice President Joe Biden in New Hampshire yesterday.
And he`s taking the Republicans` assault on women`s rights very seriously.


women is real. I tell you where it`s going to intensify. The next
president of the United States is going to get to name one and possibly two
or more members of the Supreme Court.


SCHULTZ: And President Obama is hitting back on Romney`s fuzzy math
on women in the economy. Here is the president earlier today.


REPORTER: Women have been disproportionately affected. Ninety-two
percent of the people that lost their jobs under your administration he
says are women. What do you have to say about that?

OBAMA: Well, everybody who has looked at this claim knows it`s bogus.
What he doesn`t mention obviously is that all these job losses, both men
and women, took place as a consequence of the worst financial crisis and
the worst economic crisis that we`ve seen since the Great Depression. And
the vast bulk of them happened before I was even sworn into office or a few
months shortly after I was sworn in. A direct result of the policies that
he wants to go back to.


SCHULTZ: No matter how many times Ann Romney goes to bat for her
husband, no matter how many times Mitt Romney changes his position to suit
his political interest, no matter how many times he fudges the numbers the,
Mitt Romney`s policies are bad for working moms, stay-at-home mom, single
moms, single woman, married women and the entire middle class in this
country. And the Republicans -- well, they are stuck with him.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: Can anybody help Mitt Romney close the gender gap?

Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639. And you can always go to
our blog at and leave a comment. We`ll bring you the results
later on in the show.

Let`s bring this former DNC communications director and MSNBC
political analyst Karen Finney tonight, and also, MSNBC political analyst
Richard Wolffe.

Great to have both of you with us this evening.

Richard, did the president deflate the Romney argument on women losing
their jobs in this economy?

have to work that hard to deflate it because it just doesn`t make any
sense. The unemployment rate among women is lower than it is among men.
If anyone who thinks that 90 percent of the job loss has been among women
isn`t paying any attention.

So, he`s right to sort of brush it aside, not to get too heated about
it, because it`s just ridiculous.

SCHULTZ: Karen, Ann Romney is coming to the forefront and I guess the
key player if helping them close the gender gap. She`s an asset to the
campaign. She`s got a lot of charisma in front of a crowd. She handles
herself well.

Is this going to work? Is this their best play? What do you think?

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think they think it`s their
best play. But I have to say, it was so pathetic how quickly they tried to
jump on the comments that Hilary Rosen made as a way to try to distract
from what is still a fundamental problem in the campaign.

Ann Romney is incredibly impressive. I have a lot of respect for her.
But like you said, you know, she -- her husband can`t -- he`s got to seal
the deal with him. And he`s not going to be able to do that because when
you look at the policies, when you have these conversations with women --
and Hilary Rosen`s point was about the economy and how, you know, women are
impacted in this economy.

A lot of women don`t have the choice to stay home. I think we all
would love for every woman to be able to make the choice for herself. Do
you want to stay home with your kids? Do you want to work outside the
home? Do you want to do both? But, unfortunately, we know that`s not the

And just -- can I mention one other thing? Remember that this is Mitt
Romney`s who said he doesn`t care very much about the poor. Why? Because
we have social safety net for those people.

But guess what? He wants to cut the social safety net with his
support for the Ryan budget. So, again, once you really dig in there and
look at where his policies are, they are, like you said, not good for any

SCHULTZ: Yes. Richard, is the Romney campaign putting Ann Romney in
kind of a tough position? Will she have to respond to policy questions if
she`s going to be out on the forefront like this?

WOLFFE: You know, frankly, I think the Romney campaign did not put
her in the best position here. To wield her out at an NRA event smacks of
desperation or opportunism.

In any case, what they`re really doing this week is a bunch of
tactics. They are throwing up a cloud of dust. And, you know, some people
just choking on the dust. But if you step back here, they`ve got a policy
problem. It`s not a tactical thing.

That`s how the McCain campaign ran it last time around. You try to
win in a day, win a few hours here or there. If you`re really going to
deploy Ann Romney and her strengths well, you put her in a setting where
you can talk about what you`re going to do for women.

And I just think there`s so much that`s been superficial this week
that really isn`t going to move a needle for them. They`re panicking
because they started out this week 19 points behind among women voters,
behind the Obama campaign.


WOLFFE: The Obama campaign didn`t hold its head very well through the
whole Hilary Rosen flap either. But, really, the harder road to travel is
with the Romney folks. And they didn`t do it just with one speech by Ann

SCHULTZ: Well, you make an interesting point about the NRA. It`s an
unusual place for the wife of a spouse -- the spouse of a candidate to come
out and speak to that crowd. I don`t believe that`s happened before.

The other thing is that Hilary Rosen has put this behind her, said her
apologies. The president responded to it very strongly yesterday, and so
did Vice President Joe Biden.

All of this really is an old story right now, but here comes the
Romney campaign putting it back out there again today. And the first thing
she talks about is moms and women and how important they are.

Karen, what -- I mean, this obviously is going to be a strategy that
they`re not going to give up on. They know they`ve got a problem with
women. And they`ve got to ride this issue as long as they can. What do
you think?

FINNEY: Well, I absolutely agree. I mean, again, that`s why they
were so pathetically quick to jump on this yesterday and why they are
trying to continue it today and milk it for everything they can.

I agree with what Richard was saying. They are playing box checking
politics. They do not understand fundamentally what women are talking
about when we talk about the war on women. We`ve talked about the economic

And let`s be clear, as you said, Hilary Rosen has apologized. And she
was in no way, shape, or form disparaging the choice to stay home and be
with your kids versus working outside the home. Again, wish we could all
have that choice, we don`t.


FINNEY: The other thing, Ed, don`t forget is -- when you talk about
taking away access to contraception, when you talk about saying that men
sitting in a building behind me tell me when I`ve been raped, that is an
affront to women`s liberty. That`s why we feel under siege.

SCHULTZ: Well, to your point there, Karen, this is why I don`t think
the Democrats can give up on the slogan war on women. Look at their
policies. Vice President Joe Biden says it, there is a war on women and
it`s real.

Yet DNC communications director Brad Woodhouse, he put this statement
out here today. He was quoted by a reporter. "I`m not a fan of the term
war on women. I`m sure I`ve probably used it. We all fall into these easy
vernaculars. But we in the DNC have not been running a campaign based on
the term war on women. That`s a myth cooked up by Republicans."

No, it`s not. It was stated first on this program, THE ED SHOW. It
is a war on women. And we`ve been talking about it ever since the
contraception and the religious freedom discussion took place.

FINNEY: Well, you know what, Ed? It actually even started before
then. I started hearing from women friends of mine in different parts of
the country with some of these -- remember these crazy state measures,
right, where you had state legislatures saying if we make an exception on
abortion for rape, women will use that as a loophole, right?


FINNEY: As if some women would want to be rape for God`s sakes.

So, I mean, point being, I heard from women all over the country over
the last year as these measures have been coming up saying I feel under
siege, the level of conversation.

SCHULTZ: Yes. But --

FINNEY: The way they are talking about us. Women do feel like
there`s war on our liberty.

SCHULTZ: Well, you got the DNC spokesman saying this, Richard. I
mean, do the Democrats have a messaging problem all of a sudden on this?
Because Bernie Sanders tells me, absolutely there`s war on women. We got
to keep talking about it.

What do you think?

WOLFFE: I think -- I think Democrats have lost a bit of their cool
this week, to be honest. I don`t think the Obama campaign should have
responded about the Hilary Rosen affair in the way they did. Not because
Hilary Rosen said things that were just fine. She is not associated with


WOLFFE: The president had the best response which is that spouses are
off limits here. And he knows it because his spouse has come under
ridiculous and offensive fire along the way. So, he knows how painful it
can be.

But in any case, you know, Democrats need to stick to the policy
questions. There are pocketbook questions that women care about. There
are also as Karen points out -- fundamental rights questions that are
coming under attack just in Arizona where you see abortion procedures
coming under fire again.

You know, this is not an abstract debate anymore. This does affect
women and I don`t know that it really helps Republicans to keep the
conversation on this. Frankly, they need be talking about who can run the
economy better. Not who speaks for women better because they always lost
that by 19 points.

FINNEY: You know, Ed, I don`t want to hear --

SCHULTZ: I got to run. We got to run here.

It`s the policies of the Republicans that is causing all of this

Karen Finney, Richard Wolffe, great to have you with us on this Friday
evening. Thanks for your time.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what
you think.

New poll numbers show Americans overwhelmingly support the Buffett
Rule. Will the Buffett Rule pass when it faces a vote on Monday in the
Senate? The bill`s sponsor, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is here tonight.

And the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, risks his life to save a neighbor
from a burning building. Quite a story. He`s using the media attention to
shine a light on firefighters who do that kind of work every day.

Two leaders of Newark Fire Department join me here on THE ED SHOW.

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up: President Obama is turning the screws on Mitt
Romney, demanding he`d take a stand on basic economic fairness. Mitt
Romney told the NRA that a second Obama term would be truly scary. But
Romney is the one that the NRA should fear.

And in the big finish tonight, the mystery at the heart of the Titanic
disaster 100 years later.

Share your thoughts on Twitter tonight using #EdShow.

We`re right back.



BIDEN: In order to put 400,000 teachers and teachers aides back to
work and 15,000 to 20,000 firefighters and cops, all you had to do was
raise five-tenths of 1 percent, the tax on the first dollar a millionaire
made after the first million. I remember a poll showing millionaires, a
majority of millionaires supported that.


SCHULTZ: Vice President Joe Biden told me the American people are
standing with Democrats when it comes to tax fairness. The numbers prove

A new Gallup poll shows 60 percent of Americans support the Buffett
Rule. Only 37 percent oppose it. Among independents, 63 percent say
millionaires and billionaires should pay a minimum tax rate of 30 percent.

The Obama supporting super PAC is comparing the Buffett Rule with the
Romney rule.


NARRATOR: While Romney doesn`t want millionaires like him to pay a
nickel more, he doesn`t see the big deal with letting taxes go up by $1,000
for hardworking Americans. That`s the Romney rule.

Lower taxes for millionaires like Mitt, more pain for middle class
folks like us.


SCHULTZ: The Obama team is keeping the pressure on Mitt Romney when
it comes to economic fairness. Today, President Obama and Vice President
Biden released their 2011 tax returns. Democrats called on Romney to do
the same. The Romney campaign confirmed the candidate filed for an

A spokesperson said Romney will release his 2011 returns sometime in
the next six months and prior to the election.

The Buffett Rule bill will face its first vote in the Senate on
Monday. Bill sponsor Senator Sheldon Whitehouse was out rallying support
for tax fairness.


SHELDON: Here`s what somebody said about it -- what we`re trying to
move against is institutionalized unfairness. We want to see that everyone
pays their fair share. It`s good for society when we all know that no one
is manipulating the system to their advantage because they`re rich and
powerful. You know who said that? Ronald Reagan.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in the senator from Rhode Island, Sheldon

Senator, good to have you with us tonight. Appreciate your time.

These numbers, these polling numbers --

SHELDON: Happy to be here, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet. These polling numbers look good for the Democrats
and for the policy that the White House is pushing.

What are you hearing on the road? You believe these numbers? Are
your constituents saying go right ahead and go for this?

WHITEHOUSE: I`m actually surprised the numbers are so low in favor of
the Buffett Rule. I haven`t found one person yet in Rhode Island who
thinks that a New York hedge fund billionaire should pay a lower rate than
a Rhode Island truck driver. It doesn`t surprise me is a bit that this is

Frankly, it`s the only thing that makes any sense.

SCHULTZ: What was the quote from Ronald Reagan say about the modern
day Republican Party and where they stand on taxation?

WHITEHOUSE: It shows how ideological they have become and how much
they`ve really moved away from the practical view of a president who many
of them view as sort of the conservative saint. But Ronald Reagan was also
a very practical man and he knew what was fair and what was not fair. And
it`s simply not right for somebody who is making, let`s say, a quarter of a
billion dollars a year to be paying a lower tax rate than somebody making
$50,000 a year.

SCHULTZ: Do you think this is a winning campaign issue for not only
President Obama and his campaign but for every Democrat running for office,
that economic fairness is something that is -- I know this word is
overplayed a lot in politics -- but will it connect, will it resonate with
voters that this is really where the country wants to go?

WHITEHOUSE: Gosh, I sure hope so. It would really be a shame to
think that we`re a country where we`d be willing to accept the idea that
somebody at the very, very top of our income pyramid should be able to have
special privileges, special tax rates that are lower than what the ordinary
regular working family pays. That just doesn`t seem right.

Frankly, the thing that surprises me the most in all this is that
we`re having such a fight over it. You think that this would be a slam


SCHULTZ: Well, what do you think the Senate is going to do on Monday?
What do you think the Senate is going to do on Monday? What`s going to


WHITEHOUSE: I think it`s going to depend on how many senators have
heard from their constituents. If senators don`t hear from their
constituents on this, I think they`ll go with the special interest and
they`ll protect the privilege low tax rate for these ultrahigh end income
folks. But if they start hearing from Americans on this, and that changes

So, I would urge people to go to and register to
call your local senator and to let people know how you feel, because if
we`re not looking, then the special interest will win. If we got the
spotlight on this, we`ve got a real chance to win this.

SCHULTZ: Senator Whitehouse great to have you with us tonight. We`ll
look forward to that story on Monday. Thanks so much.

Another major company defects from the right wing agenda group, ALEC.
We`ll tell you why Mars Candy is jumping off the ALEC ship.

The wing nuts were strutting their stuff today at the NRA convention,
as if President Obama will cause the end of liberty as we know it.

Don`t miss this one. It`s a dandy.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Another major corporation has cut ties with ALEC, the American
Legislative Exchange Council. Mars Incorporated is the maker of Skittles
candy. Trayvon Martin was only armed with Skittles and iced when he was
shot by George Zimmerman.

The "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida started out as an ALEC-modeled
bill. Mars joins other major companies in dumping ALEC -- Cola-Cola,
Pepsi, Kraft Foods, Intuit, McDonald`s and Wendy`s have all cut ties with
the extreme right wing group. Utility company Arizona Public Service
became the eighth company to stop working with organization ALEC.

The ALEC agenda is being exposed across the country. The group
Progress Virginia recently published a report showing how Virginia
lawmakers are connected to ALEC. The executive director confronted
Virginia House Speaker Bill Howell after he said there were inaccuracies in
the report.

This is what bullies do when they are backed against the wall.


ANNA SCHOLL, PROGRESS VA: I`m just curious about which part of the
report you found to be inaccurate?

BILL HOWELL, VIRGINIA HOUSE SPEAKER: The part where you say they got
230,000 dollars.

SCHOLL: So the state didn`t spend 230,000 dollars on the legislators`

HOWELL: I guess I`m not speaking in little enough words to

SCHOLL: I`m a smart girl, actually. I went to the University of
Virginia. I benefited from public education in Virginia. I think words
with multiple syllables will be just fine for me.


SCHULTZ: Joining me is the executive director of Progress Virginia,
Anna Scholl. Anna, good to have you with us tonight. You are in the thick
of a big story in this country, because the American people, because of
work of journalists, are starting to figure out just how laws are being
passed in states around this country.

Speaker Howell says he has since called you and apologized for his
comments. But he did say that there were inaccuracies in your report. In
his phone call to you, did he address those, what he claims are

SCHOLL: He did not. And thank you for having me this evening, Ed.

Speaker Howell did call me this morning and apologized for his
comment, and I do appreciate that. He`s still unable to point to anything
in our report that`s inaccurate, that`s not truthful. I think there`s a
lot going on that defenders of ALEC, Speaker Howell included, are trying to
distract Virginians and distract Americans from ALEC`s agenda and from the
model legislation that they`re putting forth, that puts corporations first
over constituents.

SCHULTZ: What are the most extreme examples of what ALEC has done in
the state of Virginia, ALEC ties to lawmakers in your state?

SCHOLL: Our report found that the state of Virginia had spent over
230,000 dollars sending legislators off to these ALEC junkets, spending
taxpayer money on it, so legislators can meet with corporate lobbyists
behind closed doors. The result of those meetings has been over 50 pieces
of ALEC model legislation have been introduced, in one form or another, in
the Virginia General Assembly. And over 115 current or former Virginia
legislatures have some sort of ties to the organization.

SCHULTZ: You know, it`s interesting. The state I`m broadcasting from
tonight, Minnesota, Governor Mark Dayton, former United States senator, now
the governor of this state, he has deep sixed seven ALEC related bills.
There have been a bunch of them that have been passed in this state.

But is this really the last line of defense, a Democratic governor or
a Democratically controlled House or Senate somewhere in states across
America, that are going to be able to reject these ALEC legislation?
Because it just seems to be the standard blue print of the Republican party
and the conservative movement.

SCHOLL: I think ALEC isn`t just a conservative organization. It`s
really a corporate front group. And their mission is to promote the
legislation that increases the bottom lines of their corporate members.
The best and first place to push back on that is with the American people,
to educate voters, to get them involved in advocacy, to hold their
legislators, to hold their lawmakers responsible, and tell them that this
isn`t acceptable, and we elected you to represent us, not major

SCHULTZ: Is your governor of Virginia, Bob McDonnell -- is he hearing
your message?

SCHOLL: I think he is starting to hear it. You know, we are speaking
louder than ever. Unfortunately, Governor McDonnell has requested pieces
of ALEC legislation be introduced just this past general assembly session.
There was a tax credit bill that was part of his education agenda that was
copy and pasted from ALEC model legislation.

SCHULTZ: Amazing. You know, this is what`s going to have to happen
in America, is that all politics is local. And your representative or your
senator or your delegate, --I know in the state of Virginia, you refer to
them as delegates. People are going to have to get involved. And they`re
going to have to follow up on what`s being proposed in these legislative

And they`re just going to have to flat out ask them, is this an ALEC
bill or is this your bill? Or can you tell us who -- I mean, who wrote
this bill and who is behind this bill?

I mean, we`re at that point right now, because this agenda is out to
hurt workers and middle class families and just gain corporate control all
across our economy. No doubt about it.

Anna Scholl, thank you for your work. Great report. We appreciate
your time tonight. Thanks so much.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.


MAYOR CORY BOOKER, NEWARK, NEW JERSEY: It was a really frightening
experience for me. I didn`t think we were going to get out of there.


SCHULTZ: Newark Mayor Cory Booker is hospitalized after a daring
rescue. Newark`s finest tell us how it all went down.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we`re going to safeguard
our Second Amendment, it`s time to elect a president who will defend the
rights President Obama ignores or minimizes.


SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney catches a case of Obama derangement syndrome at
the NRA Convention. We`ll set the record straight.

And it`s the 100 year anniversary of the Titanic. Tonight, we`re
looking back at the disaster that has captivated imaginations for a
century, with an exclusive look at new pictures of the sunken wreck.



BOOKER: It was really frightening experience for me. I didn`t think
we were going to get out of there. By the time I got to her, the flames in
the kitchen were pretty bad. It was rolling over the roof and down the
other wall.

So I just lifted her as best as I could with my hips and got her up
and ran as quickly as I could through the kitchen, which was on fire.


SCHULTZ: How would you react in a crisis? The Mayor of Newark, New
Jersey, Cory Booker, is being hailed as a hero today after rescuing his
neighbor from a burning building last night. Booker returned home to find
his neighbors home in flames and discovered a woman was still inside.

Against the demands of his security detail, the mayor ran into the
house, through the flames and carried the woman to safety. Today, she is
in stable condition, suffering from second-degree burns to her back and
neck. Mayor Booker was also taken to the hospital and treated for smoke
inhalation and second-degree burns on his hands.

Today, the mayor was back at work with a humble response to his act of
bravery. He said the firefighters and police officers are the real heroes.


BOOKER: The firefighters of our city are doing this on a regular
basis. These guys and women are incredibly courageous. They don`t think
twice. They have the training and the skills. I just want to shine a lot
of light on the first responders in our city.

I used to say it all the time as a politician, you always are praising
your firefighters. And now I know what it`s like. And I have a deeper
respect for them than I`ve ever had before.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in the chief of the Newark Fire Department, John
Centanni, and the fire director for the Newark Fire Department, Fateen

Gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight. Mr. Centanni, you were
at the hospital with the victim today. How is she doing? And what was her
response to the mayor coming in and saving her?

actually at the hospital today. Our arson division was up there. They met
with her and the family. I think the mother had a real embrace with the
mayor. They shared a real special moment last night and again today on
that spectacular event.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Ziyad, how dangerous was it for the mayor to go in and
do what he did last night? Take us through what happened.

FATEEN ZIYAD, NEWARK FIRE DEPARTMENT: First, let me just say that it
was an extremely dangerous act that he did, an act of heroism and bravery
that I`ve never seen before.

The level of difficulty that he actually accomplished as a civilian
was incredible. First, going up a stairwell into a burning building,
fighting fires that are in a kitchen and then going through that, and then
finding himself the victim in the dark.

In a fire, you can`t even see your hand in front you, let alone feel
or no where you`re at, especially if you`ve never been in the building
before. For him to have gone through there, climbing stairs in a smoke
filled hallway, go to a kitchen where there`s flames around you, go through
that and then still maneuver his way into finding the victim, carrying the
victim out. It was incredible and it was very, very heroic.

SCHULTZ: John, how lucky was the mayor of Newark to get out of this?
And how lucky was the person that was rescued?

CENTANNI: Well, in the fire service, we use a term as a real
legitimate rescue. A good save, good grab. That`s what happened there. I
think they were all very lucky, the mayor, his security detail and the
woman. Timing was everything. A few minutes later, I think it could have
had a very tragic event.

I think the mayor and his detective got the woman out just in time. I
really believe it was a life saved and it was a true rescue. A true rescue
happened there last night.

SCHULTZ: What did you say to the mayor after it happened?

CENTANNI: Well, the first words I said to him, how are you doing,
sir? Is everything OK? When the director got there, he thanked him for
what he did and assured him that he will not be doing that again.

ZIYAD: Exactly. When I first got to the hospital, first thing I said
to the mayor was, thank you, mayor. Thank you very much for what you did.
But don`t ever do that again.

So, you know, bravery is one thing. You know, and you think with your
heart instead of your head sometimes. But our mayor is an incredible
person and we appreciate what he did. But as professional, we wouldn`t
recommend anyone else to do that.

SCHULTZ: But he used this moment and this visibility to compliment
the firefighters who risk their lives every day. How appreciative are you
of that? Because I think oftentimes firefighters don`t get the credit and
the first responders don`t get the credit that they really deserve. And
here is a mayor who saved a life, risked his own life, gets a successful
mission accomplished, and then turns and says, you guys do it every day.

Your response to that, both of you. You first, John.

CENTANNI: You know, I think it was a special moment for us to
actually go back to the company today, the fire house that responded to the
fire, and talking to the next shift in, and actually getting a chance to
relay that message to them. They all heard it on newscast.

It gave me a moment to thank them too for what they do every day. So
that is important. That`s important for us to be recognized. And we
appreciated that. It goes a long way. It goes a long way. A thank you
goes a long way once in a while.

SCHULTZ: Fateen, your thoughts?

CENTANNI: Of course. Let me just say, first and foremost, that the
fact that he humbled himself and then showed the appreciation of what we do
every day, me and John both being 27 year veterans and having came up
through the ranks of firefighters, can understand the hard work that
firefighters do not just here in the city of Newark, but also throughout
the country.

After 9/11, of course, we were recognized. But as the times faded, we
were forgotten. To have a mayor recognize us in his way, after he did such
a courageous thing, to say that we do this every day is not just
appreciated. It`s definitely, definitely something that`s going to be held
to each firefighters heart.

Like the chief said, we went around to the fire station and we
informed the firefighters of what the major had said. They were so
appreciative of what he said. For a long time, sometimes, we don`t feel
like we`re appreciated.

SCHULTZ: Gentlemen thanks for your time tonight. I appreciate it so
much. Great story.

Next, the Romney scare tactics on President Obama`s gun record. But
Romney is the one the NRA ought to be afraid of. That`s next. Stay with


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. The anti-Obama rhetoric was
running hot and heavy at today`s National Rifle Association meeting.
Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre went bonkers over the idea of an
Obama second term.


Amendment liberty, all of the rights we have worked so hard to defend, all
of what we know as good and right about America, all of it could be lost if
Barack Obama gets reelected. We know if President Obama gets a second
term, America as we know it will be on its way to being lost forever.


SCHULTZ: But that was just the start of it. Mitt Romney laid it on
pretty thick as well.


ROMNEY: The right to bear arms is so plainly stated, so unambiguous
that liberals have a hard time challenging it directly. Instead, they have
been employing every imaginable ruse and ploy to restrict it and to defeat


SCHULTZ: Of course, Mitt Romney did not site a single example of
President Obama actually rolling back gun rights in America. He can`t
because the truth is President Obama has expanded gun rights in America.
President Obama signed a federal law two years ago requiring National Parks
to allow gun owners to carry firearms into National Parks, as long as it
follows state law.

What about Mitt Romney? When he was running for the Senate back in
the 1990s, he supported a five-day waiting period to buy a gun. He said,
"that`s not going to make me the hero of the NRA." But here he is again


ROMNEY: You know, we need a president that will enforce current laws,
not create new ones that only serve to burden lawful gun owners. President
Obama has not. I will.


SCHULTZ: Well, here is Romney in 2002, when he was running for
governor of Massachusetts.


ROMNEY: We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts. I support them.
I won`t chip away at them.


SCHULTZ: Oops. But here is yet another clip from today`s speech.


ROMNEY: If we`re going to safeguard our Second Amendment, it`s time
to elect a president who will defend the rights President Obama ignores or


SCHULTZ: As governor of Massachusetts in 2005, Romney signed a
permanent ban -- did you get that NRA guys -- a permanent ban on assault
rifles, saying, quote, "deadly assault weapons have no place in

Maybe that`s why Romney said -- only said the word gun once in his
entire speech today to the NRA. You see, Romney tries to talk tough in
front of the NRA, but it`s not very convincing.

He`s what you would call a sheep in wolf`s clothing.

In the Big Finish tonight, 100 years after the Titanic sunk, we`re
still learning new fascinating details about the ship`s last hours. That`s


SCHULTZ: Big Finish tonight; it was 100 years ago. The ship of
dreams became a nightmare when the Titanic struck an iceberg in the middle
of the North Atlantic Ocean. The sinking of the Titanic has captivated the
interest of Americans for generations.

A ship labeled unsinkable plunged two and a half miles down to the
ocean floor. Some are still hard at work piecing together the truth. In
2010, a team of researchers explored the wreckage of the Titanic, and for
the first time mapped out a massive area of the sea floor.

They pieced together hundreds of images to create unprecedented views
of the ship, like this picture of the stern, composed of 300 high
resolution images. This is what remains of two of the Titanic`s engines.
They are very big. They are four stories tall.

Here you can see an image of the entire bow of the Titanic. Here is
the starboard side of the ship, the side that actually hit the iceberg.

Dr. David Gallo is the director of special projects for Woods Hole
Oceanographic Institution, and he joins us tonight.

Dr. Gallo, great to have you with us. I appreciate your time. I`m
fascinated that -- by some of your research, that you say that hitting the
iceberg may not have been as dramatic as we might think. Take us down that

Ed. One of the early ideas was that maybe there was a giant gash on the
side of the Titanic or maybe several giant gashes. And then there was --
the idea was put forward that maybe it was a lot of small cuts in the hull
of Titanic, and then maybe it just bumped along the iceberg and sort of
creased the plates. The outside of the Titanic was made up of a lot of

Maybe it just kind creased those, so it caused a lot of these little
partings in the hull. By doing what we did, what you just described there,
we were able to look at every piece of that ship.

SCHULTZ: What have we learned from these images?

GALLO: You know, Ed, for the first time, we see the whole thing, and
not just the wreck of Titanic, not just the bow and the stern, but also we
went wider than that. We went out five miles by three miles, mapped that
whole area. So we got the entire wreck site. And then we`ve got the wreck
itself and the context of the sea floor around it.

So we`re finally starting to get an idea of the setting of Titanic,
and also of everything that`s in that site. We used to have anecdotal
ideas about there`s boilers over here and there`s a crane over there. Now
we`ve got our map. So we have the birds eye view and then we`ve got the
kinds of images that you just showed, so we can zoom right in on even a
crab crawling on the anchor of Titanic.

SCHULTZ: Is there anything that could have been done to save the

GALLO: OH, I don`t know. We went through a lot of different
scenarios wondering about that. One thing that puzzles a lot of people is
that when the ship was sinking, the captain noticed that there was a light
not far from Titanic, maybe five miles away. And that was another ship.

And he -- when he ordered the women and children into boats, he said
have them row toward that light. And there`s some thought that if he had -
if they had done that, or maybe even steamed toward that ship, they could
have saved a lot more people.

Also they could have done a more orderly job loading those lifeboats.
They could have saved maybe another 500 people. But, by in large, about 32
percent were saved. The rest were lost.

SCHULTZ: You have been down there and seen the wreckage. What was
that like?

GALLO: No, I`ve only used robots personally. I hope to go at some
point in submarines. But using the robots today with 3-D cameras, it`s
like being there. It`s awesome, Ed. Even though you have this external --
you have this posture of being a scientist, so you have to have a cool
exterior -- everybody on that team had a job to do. Just below the
surface, because it`s Titanic, we had this incredible deep emotional
attachment to that ship, because you know about the stories of 2,200 lives
that sailed to board her.

SCHULTZ: Dr. David Gallo, I appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so
much for sharing these pictures with us. I appreciate it.

GALLO: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet. For more of these amazing pictures, you can go to That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW
SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.


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