updated 6/25/2012 2:49:27 PM ET 2012-06-25T18:49:27

Guests: Darren Soto, Matthew Miller, Tim Ryan, Jon Bramnick, Errol Louis, Karen Finney, Katherine Crier

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED SHOW
tonight from New York.

President Obama took charge on immigration at a Latino conference today,
while Mitt Romney and the Republicans are still trying to come up with a
consistent message.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Send me the DREAM Act. I will
sign it right away.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The president got his turn to speak to Latino leaders
in Florida today and went directly at Mitt Romney.

OBAMA: The speech he said that when he makes a promise to you, he`ll keep
it. Well, he has promised to veto the DREAM Act, and we should take him at
his world.

SCHULTZ: We`ll have all the fallout from the president`s epic smackdown.

The out-of-control attack on Eric Holder is now a deranged assault on House
Leader Pelosi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She thinks that we`re doing this to suppress votes this
fall. That is mind numbingly stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Pelosi has to be one of the dumbest people to ever
have been a speaker of the House.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she drinking?

SCHULTZ: Matthew Miller, the former top spokesman for the Justice
Department, is here tonight to debunk the Republican witch hunt.

And "The Washington Post" drops a bombshell on the Romney campaign. Mitt
Romney was an outsourcing pioneer at Bain Capital, and the president is
attacking.

OBAMA: We do not need an outsourcing pioneer in the Oval Office. We need a
president who will fight for American jobs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

President Obama came out swinging today against a Republican-led do-nothing
Congress in the House. His message to a group of Latino elected officials
was pretty simple -- comprehensive immigration reform in the country is
possible, but the Republicans are preventing it from happening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We should have passed the DREAM Act a long time ago. It was written
by members of both parties. When it came up for a vote, a year and a half
ago, Republicans in Congress blocked it. The bill hadn`t changed. The need
hadn`t changed. The only thing that had changed was politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: This was the president`s first speech to a Latino audience since
he issued an executive action halting the deportation of some 800,000
illegal immigrants brought to this country as children. It was the same
audience that heard from Mr. Obama`s opponent, Mitt Romney, on Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Your speaker from yesterday has a different view. In his speech, he
said when he makes a promise to you, he`ll keep it. Well, he has promised
to veto the DREAM Act. And we should take him at his word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, sometimes you get into trouble for taking Mitt Romney at his
word. His campaign co-chair for Latin America was asked whether or not
Romney would keep President Obama`s immigration directive. The response?
"My anticipation is that he would probably rescind this directive were he
to be elected in November."

The campaign told Greg Sargent of "The Plum Line", Romney`s campaign co-
chair for Latin America does not advice nor speak for the campaign on
immigration policy. Really? Must be a heck of an organization there. Mitt
Romney and Senator Marco Rubio claimed a deal on the DREAM Act could have
been brokered had the president not gotten in the way.

But wait a minute, the reality tells a much different story. Romney can
thank his Republican friends in the Congress for doing nothing on this
issue, handing President Obama the very tools he needed to not come up with
only a short term solution but to hit the GOP right over the head with it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: So, to those who are saying Congress should be the one to fix this -
- absolutely. For those who say we should do this in a bipartisan fashion -
- absolutely. My door has been open for three and a half years. They know
where to find me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney and the Republicans have no solutions when it comes to
immigration. They have managed to drive moderates out of the party, paving
the way for extreme measures like Arizona`s papers please law. President
Obama pointed out the Republican Party used to be more welcoming to the
Hispanic community in this country, giving a nod to his predecessor`s
attempt at immigration reform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Just six years ago, an unlikely trio, John McCain, Ted Kennedy,
President Bush, came together to champion comprehensive immigration reform.
I along with a lot of Democrats were proud to join 23 Senate Republicans in
voting for it.

Today, those same Republicans have been driven away from the table by a
small faction of their own party. It`s created the same kind of stalemate
on immigration reform that we`re seeing on a whole other range of economic
issues. And it`s given rise to a patchwork of state laws that cause more
problems than they solve and are often doing more harm than good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In a room full of elected leaders from all different backgrounds
and all different walks of life, President Obama got personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Every single day I walk into the Oval Office, every day that I have
this extraordinary privilege of being your president, I will always
remember that in no other nation on Earth could my story even be possible
because when I meet these young people, all throughout communities, I see
myself. Who knows what they might achieve? That`s what I`m fighting for.
That`s what I stand for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: We have the president of the United States relating to the
struggles and dreams of so many Americans and what they have. Mitt Romney
tried to relate to the same audience by telling them that his father was
born in Mexico. Romney just doesn`t get it and neither do the Republicans.

Romney had the entire week to formulate some kind of response to this
president solution for immigration reform. He just couldn`t come up with
it. He hasn`t come up with anything in a week.

Instead, well, he`s told right wingers that he favors self deportation. He
supports a border fence, beefed up border security. As president, he would
veto the DREAM Act, which is pretty serious stuff, isn`t it? It cuts to the
core of it.

I think President Obama is on to something when he says that he ought to
take Mitt Romney at his word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: You know, yesterday, your featured speaker came here and said that
the election in November isn`t about two people, it`s not about being a
Republican or a Democrat or an independent, it`s about the future of
America. And while we`ve got a lot of differences, he and I, on this point,
I could not agree more. This is about America`s future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Get your cell phones out. We want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: Do you think Latino voters will ever vote for Mitt
Romney? Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639, or our blog is there for
at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

I`m joined tonight by Florida State Representative Darren Soto and Eugene
Robinson, MSNBC political analyst, and associate editor and Pulitzer Prize-
winning columnist for "The Washington Post".

Gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight.

Mr. Soto, you first. You were in the room. What were the differences? Were
they as stark as they seem from looking at the cuts of the tape?

STATE REP. DARREN SOTO (D), FLORIDA: Well, they absolutely were, Ed. We saw
a chilly if not polite reception at best of Romney yesterday.

And then today, Obama was treated like a rock star, and why shouldn`t he?
He has delivered. He has delivered with the nomination of Carmen Aponte to
ambassador of El Salvador, as well as the bombshell of the DREAM Act, and
he came in with guns blazing today.

SCHULTZ: So, the room knew it, the room felt it, which is pretty Obama-
like. There`s no doubt about it. He can warm a crowd, but it`s about the
issues at this point.

And, Gene Robinson -- Eugene, he had a week to put something together on
this. You get the feeling, I know the guy is right, but I can`t say
anything about it. What about Romney`s position?

EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: It`s amazing, Ed. You know,
earlier in the week, we were saying surely on Thursday when he speaks to
NALEO, he`ll come out with a position, he has to. But he didn`t. This is a
terrible issue for Mitt Romney and he really needs to change the subject
fast.

Three reasons it`s a terrible issue. Number one, we know where he stands
with Latino voters. He didn`t do himself any good. He did himself some harm
probably on Thursday.

Number two, it shows a sort of fecklessness, perhaps un-readiness for
primetime that in a whole week, he couldn`t get together an answer to a
simple question, would you or would you not rescind the new possibly.

And third, it allows President Obama to talk about the things Congress has
not done, all the things that Congress complained about, but Republicans in
Congress failed to do. They filibusters the DREAM Act. They wouldn`t let it
go through. That`s why we don`t have it now and that`s why he had to do
what he did.

So Romney needs to change the subject fast.

SCHULTZ: He needs to change the subject real fast. And I just don`t see him
mounting any kind of a strategy that`s going to be effective.

I mean, this could swing the election to President Obama. It`s going to be
razor tight no question about it.

Mr. Soto, what do you see Mitt Romney having to do between now and November
that could have an impact on the Latino vote?

SOTO: Well, certainly having a plan with immigration would help out and
having more of a plan than just being anti-Affordable Care Act. As we have
seen in polling, health care is critical to our community. We have 4
million people who don`t have health care in our state. The vast majority
of them are children.

And this is very important, and so, you need to be more than anti. You need
to actually put forward some positive ideas. In addition, there was nothing
on education today, or yesterday by Romney.

Today, Obama outlined we need more teachers in the classroom and we need to
make Pell grants, make college affordable. These are things that are going
to resonate.

And lastly, about the tale of two visions. We saw that Barack wants to
build the economy from the ground up while Mitt Romney, we saw from the
ground -- from the top down, with trickledown economics, which didn`t work
in the past and it`s not going to work now.

SCHULTZ: Did the president streak the right tone today, Gene?

ROBINSON: I think he did. Look, it was like playing t-ball, right. It was
all kind laid out for him.

So I think he did strike the right tone. He was forceful. He was very
clear, and I think he hit on some major themes to which he will return
during the campaign. So, a good day for him.

SCHULTZ: So, Eugene, do you think this is an issue the president can ride
until November? I mean, this isn`t just a week or two-week story?

How does he make it better? How does he really continue to hammer this
home?

ROBINSON: Well, he can certainly continue riding this issue until there`s
something more substantive or d definitive or hopeful from Mitt Romney, and
that doesn`t look promising. So, you know, and as you know, Ed, this can
really tip the balance in some swing states, especially in the Mountain
West, with large Hispanic populations, where according to the polls I`m
looking at, the president`s already large margin over Mitt Romney seems to
be growing.

SCHULTZ: Now, Mr. Soto made the comment a moment ago about health care. I
noticed today, Gene, that when the president mentioned health care, he got
quite a response in the room.

Next week, health care is going to be a big, big story in this country when
the Supreme Court rules. Is this too an issue that the president is going
to win in the Latino vote because the Republicans to my knowledge have not
come up and definitively said what they want don`t want when it comes to
health care and getting everyone covered.

One of the underreported stories in the country is all of the Americans who
really, really like and appreciate and need aspects of the Affordable Care
Act that are now taking effect, and that are making a huge difference in
people`s lives. I wish that Democrats and the president had been
emphasizing this more all along. I hope they do now, because I think if
Republicans think this is all their issue, I think they`re wrong.

SCHULTZ: Florida State Representative Darren Soto and Eugene Robinson,
thanks for joining us tonight on THE ED SHOW.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at the bottom of the screen, share
your thoughts on twitter @EdShow. We always want to know what you think.

Republicans say Attorney General Eric Holder isn`t telling them the whole
story. I`m going to talk to someone who knows the story first hand coming
up on THE ED SHOW. Former Holder aide Matthew Miller will join me tonight.

Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: It`s an ED SHOW exclusive. The former spokesperson for Eric
Holder`s Justice Department will give us his thoughts on Darrell Issa`s
political hit job on the attorney general. That`s next.

The Obama campaign is jumping all over today`s "Washington Post" report on
Mitt Romney and outsourcing, details ahead.

And Jerry Sandusky`s lawyer said today he would be shocked and die of a
heart attack if the ex-Penn State assistant football coach was acquitted on
all accounts. This is his attorney. We`re awaiting a verdict. Attorney
Catherine Crier joins me with the latest.

Share your thoughts on Twitter using #EdShow. We`re coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: It`s been the biggest story this week: The Republican witch hunt
against Attorney General Eric Holder heads to the full Congress next week.
Holder will become the first cabinet member in U.S. history held in
contempt of Congress if a party line vote is cast.

The attorney general`s office has already turned over thousands of pages of
documents to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. But the
Republicans -- well, they want more. According to a report in "The Daily
Beast," Republicans -- they want a trophy.

The chief investigator counsel for the committee Republicans demanded the
scalp of a key member of Holder`s team as part of the rough-and-tumble
negotiations. The scalp they wanted was Assistant Attorney General Lanny
Breuer. "The Daily Beast" says a staffer for committee chairman Darrell
Issa told the Justice Department to get rid of Breuer in exchange for
bypassing a contempt vote. The Justice Department didn`t play along.

A spokesman for the House committee denies the request for Breuer`s firing.
But just a few months ago, Darrell Issa said heads should roll in the
Justice Department. He told the committee, "I do believe there are people
at main justice who ultimately do need to go."

Meanwhile, the right wing is now using the family of slain border guard
Brian Terry as political pawns. Sean Hannity put Terry`s parents on a show
last night and Republican lawmakers are showing up on FOX accusing the
administration of withholding the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line is this, there`s an agent dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His family wants the truth. This administration said no.
That`s wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Republicans still say they haven`t been told the truth. So let`s
help them get to the bottom of it tonight.

I`m joined tonight by Matthew Miller, former aide to Attorney General Eric
Holder.

Mr. Miller, good to have you with us tonight.

One of the things --

MATTHEW MILLER, FORMER AIDE TO ATTY. GEN. ERIC HOLDER: Thanks for having
me.

SCHULTZ: When did Eric Holder know about this program, Fast and Furious?
When did he find out about it?

MILLER: You know, I can tell you -- I remember it clearly. It was early in
2011 when the allegations first came to light. I remember his reaction very
clearly.

You know, this is a man who has been in law enforcement his entire career
and he instantly said these tactics if they have been employed are
illegitimate tactics, they shouldn`t happen, and he did two things right
away. One is he ordered everyone in the field to stop gun walking and
prohibited it from happening in the future, and, two, he asked the
department`s inspector general to immediately open an investigation. That`s
a thorough comprehensive investigation.

And he said, if that investigation finds wrongdoing, he`ll hold people
accountable.

SCHULTZ: So, when the border agent, Brian Terry, was killed in that
shooting, the attorney general of the United States did not know about Fast
and Furious?

MILLER: That`s right. That`s right.

SCHULTZ: How could that be?

MILLER: Well, you have to remember that this was a field level operation
that happened in Arizona, one of, you know, thousands of operations that go
on around the department every day. But what happened during Fast and
Furious was that guns were allowed to walk -- something that is not a
legitimate law enforcement tactic. And if he had known, for example, as the
last attorney general under the Bush administration had known, Attorney
General Holder had known, he would have stopped it, because that`s what he
did when he found out.

SCHULTZ: Well, the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms is under the jurisdiction
of the Justice Department. So there were operations in the field that were
taking place that the attorney general didn`t know about.

How would you characterize it? Were these rogue agents out selling arms,
trying to get them into Mexico to identify drug cartels? How could this be?

MILLER: There are agents that were -- I mean, you have to remember, there
are agents in the field who are trying very hard to stop the vast number of
guns that have been going across the border. And in this case, you know,
these are tactics that started several years ago. They started in the Bush
administration, they happened in several operations in that, and they just
carried over into the Obama administration.

But one of the things that`s come out in this investigation, the people at
the ATF and the people at the U.S. attorney`s office in Arizona have said
they didn`t brief officials in Washington. That`s really unfortunate
because I think it might have been stopped earlier.

SCHULTZ: All right. There were other programs besides Fast and Furious.

MILLER: Right.

SCHULTZ: And they started under the Bush administration. Are we to believe
these took place in the Bush administration and when the Obama
administration came in, nobody knew anything about it?

MILLER: Yes, no one at the top did and that`s come out in Issa`s
investigation.

SCHULTZ: OK.

MILLER: You`ll never hear that from Chairman Issa, but he likes to make
reckless allegations that aren`t supported by the facts, but every fact
that he`s actually uncovered shows that no one in senior positions knew
about this until after the fact.

SCHULTZ: So, we could come to the conclusion that Eric Holder did not know
what Mukasey knew under the Bush administration?

MILLER: Yes, that`s --

SCHULTZ: And that information was not passed along? OK.

MILLER: That`s absolutely right. And the ATF has said that to investigators
for chairman Issa`s committee and Democrats have asked to call him to say
that on the record, at a hearing, and Issa has refused.

SCHULTZ: OK. Why would certain documents in the case fall under executive
privilege?

MILLER: So, I think you have to look at what`s happened in this
investigation. It started as an investigation into what happened with Fast
and Furious and how the guns were allowed to walk. And the department
turned over all of the relevant documents that led to that. They showed no
wrongdoing on behalf of senior officials at DOJ.

And Issa wasn`t satisfied with that and he moved the goalpost and then
asked about documents about the department`s response to Congress, in a
February 4th letter of last year. He got those documents. They didn`t show
wrongdoing on the behalf of senior officials. So, he moved the goalposts
again --

SCHULTZ: Well, there were some redacted statements in that February 4th,
correct?

MILLER: There were some statements that were later withdrawn. That`s right.

SCHULTZ: OK. Well, this is the crux of it all right now. Issa wants to know
what was taken out of that letter. He doesn`t believe that Eric Holder is
telling the truth and he says some of them say that the Obama
administration knew about it, the Obama team knew about it.

MILLER: Yes. Well, he does say that, but in fact, you know, the second
thing he asked for this investigation was all of the documents that led to
the preparation of that letter. And these are documents that Departments of
Justice in the past have not turned over. But this department bent over
backwards and gave him those documents and they showed that the people who
wrote the letter got bad information, an inadvertent mistake, but Issa
hasn`t been satisfied with that.

You know, he`s looked for a scalp from the beginning. When he hasn`t
uncovered facts that support someone resigning, he has moved the goalpost,
and now, what he wants documents from the months after that letter was
written that have nothing to do with the initial response.

SCHULTZ: OK. And we have heard all week long from Democrats that there are
certain people that should be testifying in front of the committee and Issa
will not allow them to be called.

Do you think that there are other people out there that would shed more
light on this to help all congressional members in the country to get to
the bottom of this?

MILLER: Well, I think you could start with Attorney General Mukasey, the
last attorney general in the Bush administration.

SCHULTZ: You think he should be called?

MILLER: We have seen a memo that went to him describing gun walking, guns
being tracked across the border. It went right to him. It`s clear as day. I
don`t know why the committee didn`t call him.

SCHULTZ: All right. Matthew Miller, appreciate your time tonight on THE ED
SHOW. We`ll do it again. Thank you.

MILLER: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, the Washington Post is calling Romney a pioneer, but
it`s not a compliment. Find out what his business success is creating a
campaign failure.

And later, corporate profits -- here we go -- with an all-time high, but
guess what? Those they`re not being passed along to the workers. We`ve got
the details. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

The next story goes right to the heart of who Mitt Romney is and what he
does best. He prides himself on being a successful businessman. He claims
that he has created tens of thousands of jobs while he was at Bain Capital.
And he asks this question, he was asked this question almost every campaign
stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you want someone who spent his
life in the private sector who understands where jobs come from?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, but Romney might need to change his stump speech. "The
Washington Post" revealed that under Romney, Bain Capital encouraged
companies to move jobs overseas -- actually, Romney was a pioneer in the
industry. "The Washington Post" discovered that Bain pushed to export jobs
at companies like IBM, HP, Dell, and Lucent.

Bain made money by encouraging these companies to move jobs overseas while
Romney was in charge. The Romney campaign is not happy about this report,
no doubt. They will not talk about specifics. They only say the report is
flawed because it doesn`t differentiate between outsourcing and offshoring.

The campaign insists he will attract foreign jobs to America by cutting
taxes. In other words, Romney wants to bring back the jobs he sent
overseas?

Romney did not want to talk about outsourcing on camera today. But the
president sure did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We do not need an outsourcing pioneer in the Oval Office. We need a
president who will fight for American jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney was extremely successful at Bain. He comes from a corporate
culture that`s about making money. It`s not about people. It`s about the
bottom line. It`s not about infrastructure of a company and where it is.

But the business philosophy might not be the answer for getting American
jobs back here in this country. There is a real conflict with the way this
guy does business and the way -- what we need in this country to build up
jobs. It just doesn`t match up.

Let`s turn to Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan. Congressman, good to have you with
us. There seems to be a real conflict in Romney`s business philosophy and
it`s clashing with his campaign message. What do you make of it?

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: Yes, no doubt about it. This is really shaping up
to be a great issue for us politically, but especially for the American
worker. When you contrast it with what Barack Obama has done for states
like Ohio, between the Recovery Act and the tariffs he put on Chinese oil
company tubular products coming in, we got a 650 million dollar investment
from a French company. And one of the essentials some site prep, and we
used stimulus money for then. And then also the dumping that was coming in
from China. And the president took a tough stand and put tariffs on those
products coming in.

And who benefits but the citizens of Youngstown, Ohio. You look at the auto
industry, Lordstown, Ohio making the Chevy Cruze right now. One in every
eight jobs in Ohio is because of the auto industry. President Obama flat
out, along with Senator Sherrod Brown, rescued the auto industry.

So this contrast between Mitt Romney off shoring jobs and making a lot of
money by doing it, and Barack Obama creating jobs in places like
Youngstown, Ohio, Parma, Toledo, all over the northern part of the state,
is a dramatic difference. And it`s why Barack Obama, at the end of the day,
is going to win the state of Ohio.

SCHULTZ: Every time the subject of China comes up, Mitt Romney talks about
being tough on them and currency manipulation. And of course that has been
kicked around quite a bit in the Congress as well. Do you hear anything
from Romney that is different from what President Obama is trying to do?

RYAN: Listen, I like a strong, firm president. And the problem with Romney
is his career has been in implementing things that are the complete
opposite of his rhetoric right now. He can say whatever he wants. Barack
Obama has already got the job done.

Ask the workers in northwest Ohio where tire jobs were created because
Obama took on China and they were dumping tires into the country. Again, go
to Youngstown or Brookfield, Ohio, where we have steel tube jobs now
because Obama took on the Chinese.

So let Romney go talk. Our president has acted. Sherrod Brown has acted.
And Ohio is better for it. That`s why you see the unemployment rate lower
than the national average in places like Ohio. So I`m tired of the
political talk like a lot of people are. This president has a strong
record. And if you`re someone in Ohio who wants jobs to be created in
America and not outsourced to Mexico or China or wherever, you want to re-
elect Barack Obama. There`s no question hereof.

SCHULTZ: The numbers do tell the story. Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan, good to
have you with us tonight. Thanks a lot.

RYAN: Always a pleasure, Ed.

SCHULTZ: There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.
Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: He has promised to veto the Dream Act. We should take him at his
word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, the Romney campaign is spinning out of control on
immigration. The big panel on the president`s smack down is next.

And a Sandusky accuser comes forward to tell his shocking story. We`re
waiting a verdict in the Sandusky sex abuse case. The latest from
Pennsylvania ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I am absolutely convinced that what binds us together has always
proven stronger than what drives us apart. We are one people. We need one
another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. In the last 24 hours, we have watched
both President Obama and Mitt Romney make their pitch to Latino leaders and
elected officials. Both spoke at the Association of Latino Elected
Officials in Orlando, Florida. Both talked about immigration. Both got the
same amount of time. But they`re not getting the same response.

A week ago today, the president announced he would stop deporting more than
one million undocumented children and young adults. Now look at the latest
poll of Latino voters. Obama is way ahead in five battle ground states.
He`s way ahead of Romney in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Nevada, and
Virginia. Romney needs these states and needs these Latino voters to win
the White House in November.

Romney is accusing the president of taking the Latino vote for granted. He
also accused the president of failing to fix immigration over the last
three and a half years.

I`m joined tonight by New Jersey GOP Assembly Leader John Bramnick, also
Errol Louis, who is the host of New York One`s "Inside City Hall," and
MSNBC political analyst Karen Finney.

John, you first. Mr. Bramnick, good to have you with us. What does Mitt
Romney -- there seems to be a disconnect here. He just doesn`t seem to be
connecting or coming up with an immigration policy. What does he have to do
to turn this around before November?

JON BRAMNICK (R-NJ), ASSEMBLY LEADER: It`s all about jobs. Whether you`re
Hispanic or whatever you are, you want a job and you want things to get
better for your family. This is what Mitt Romney -- in my judgment, this is
his strong point. It is that people believe and they will believe when they
go into the voting booth that things have to get better in America. So
that`s the point that he has to make. He`s made it, and I`m convinced
that`s the future.

SCHULTZ: Karen, what about the immigration end of it? It just seems that
Mitt Romney has not come up with a plan. He can`t answer the direct
question, if he would rescind or stay with the policy that the president
has now put in place.

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, actually, Ed, I think it`s not
that he can`t answer it. I think it`s that he won`t answer it. As you said
earlier on your program, one of his advisers has said that he would
actually rescind the decision the president put in place.

And here`s the other thing; consider the disrespect of going in front of
NALEO, one of the largest and most prominent Latino groups in the country,
and not explaining yourself, not explaining self deportation and why you
would say that in a primary, but then have a totally different message in a
general election.

SCHULTZ: Jon, what about that?

BRAMNICK: Look, you can micromanage these debates. You can try to find one
issue. But at the end of the day, when an Hispanic voter or any other voter
walks into that voting booth, they want one thing: are things going to get
better in America? Is it going to be better for my family? Who knows how to
manage an economy? That`s what people want to know. That`s the issue.

SCHULTZ: What do you think?

(CROSS TALK)

ERROL LOUIS, NEW YORK ONE HOST: If he could, what we have seen from Mitt
Romney, what he would try to do is change the subject. You know, he can get
away with that for a month or two during the summer. After Labor Day, can
he get away with that? I don`t think so.

The reality is people -- what they think about the future is not just
simply a job, but it`s also opportunity. It`s about fairness. It`s also
about what is going to happen to the rest of their family. That`s where
immigration starts --

SCHULTZ: But this decision is going to affect a million people. And Romney
doesn`t take a stand on it.

FINNEY: But Ed, if I may --

(CROSS TALK)

BRAMNICK: he`s talking about a long term solution, not something you do for
political points in the short term. And there`s no doubt, this is a fair
minded man. But he wants a long term solution where everyone is at the
table and Congress makes a decision on what to do.

SCHULTZ: What about that, Karen?

FINNEY: You know, here`s the thing, all due respect to the assemblyman.
Here is what he may forget in this revisionist history. Latinos remember.
It`s not just the actual -- what`s in the actual agreement that is signed
or the legislation. It`s the tone of the debate that makes Latinos and
African-Americans feel uncomfortable and feel like the Republican party --
and this is part of why the base of the Republican party is shrinking -- is
not a place that understands their issues and our issues.

In 2005, it was the rancor of the debate that actually all of the Latinos -
- all of the gain that Republicans had made in the prior election came to
the Democratic party. They remember the tone of the debate. They remember
that no Republicans would support the Dream Act over the last year.

And they also know that it is the party of Mitt Romney that is out there
trying to disenfranchise right now our voices at the ballot box in this
fall election. Not to mention this guy is somebody who is a champion at
shipping jobs overseas.

BRAMNICK: Maybe the media`s tone. No one will ever question the tone of
Mitt Romney. That is a very measured, very kind, very straightforward man,
in my judgment. So if you want to talk about --

(CROSS TALK)

FINNEY: He wasn`t very kind when he talked about self deportation. He
wasn`t very kind when Rick Perry got booed on the stage for talking about
having a certain amount of humanity for the people in his state. So you
know, I don`t think we have seen that kind of kindness. I think we have
seen a political opportunist go and realize that, as George Will himself
has said, he has to get 30 percent at least of the Latino vote. You can win
in gerrymandered districts in this country. But can`t win a national
election. That`s just the changing demographics.

BRAMNICK: Look, if you want to take the eyes of the people off the economy
and try to micromanage a debate, you know, that`s fine. But when people
walk into the voting booth, they have one thing in their mind, are things
going to get better if we keep Barack Obama there?

SCHULTZ: For 800,000 people, Jon, they are going to get better. That`s the
whole point of all of this. They`re not going to get deported. Their
children who were brought here --

BRAMNICK: -- never said he`s deporting those individuals.

SCHULTZ: But he`s never given a definitive answer on this, Errol, has he?

LOUIS: No, he hasn`t. He has said that he would veto the Dream Act. And
that in itself is very troubling to some people. It`s not clear what he`s
going to do with this executive order. He said he would like to replace it
with something more comprehensive. But I think people understand that that
can be either a dodge or, if meant genuinely, a little bit unrealistic.

SCHULTZ: The president reminded us today that the Dream Act was
filibustered in the Senate by the Republicans.

FINNEY: But also to this point about -- let`s just take it on the economy,
straight on the economy. What I think the GOP doesn`t understand is health
care, that`s an economic issue for many families. When we talk about
repealing health care, OK, then what happens to the millions of people who
are already in the system and the people who are going to be covered in the
system that we currently have in place.

Or how about again, Mitt Romney, we know from the "Washington Post" today -
-

(CROSS TALK)

BRAMNICK: Here`s the question, the experience that Mitt Romney brings to
the table -- with all due respect to the president, he hasn`t had that kind
of experience in the real world economy as a business person. All of us
know, and Ed does it as -- in front of a television camera. Without
experience, how do you really make those day to day decisions?

The bottom line is he has not been in the real world as a business person,
the president. Now people want someone who can manage this economy.

SCHULTZ: Do you agree that Mitt Romney was a pioneer in outsourcing?

BRAMNICK: Look, outsourcing -- once again, you focus on one small issue as
opposed --

SCHULTZ: I don`t know. People having their jobs shipped overseas is pretty
big to them.

BRAMNICK: Competition within the business community, sometimes it required
some outsourcing. If you want to focus just on that issue, you miss that
big picture of where does America want to go. Do you want to start to
create more and more business and enterprise or don`t you?

SCHULTZ: Jon Bramnick, thanks for coming in. Errol Louis and Karen Finney,
thanks for your time tonight. Appreciate it.

Up next, more Americans are out of work now than at any time in the past
three decades. But companies are doing just fine. We`ll show you the
details next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: All right, let`s talk numbers. Corporate profits have hit an all-
time high. But companies are doing well at the expense of what? Average
Americans and workers. Here`s corporate profit margins starting around
1945, right there. As you can see, companies are making more profit per
sale now than ever before.

Meanwhile, those on the right wing are saying that -- well, they`re whining
about, oh, we have too much regulation, we`re just paying too many taxes.
Really? How are your profits doing? I guess they`re wrong about that big
time.

But as all these companies are raking in the record profits, you would
think gosh, it`s helping folks. Fewer Americans are working now than at any
other time in the past three decades. This is the current civilian
employment ratio right here. Consume this.

Companies are just sitting on their profits and not giving American jobs
the way they should. They desperately need American jobs, even though they
could easily afford to hire more workers. At least that`s what the numbers
show. This is exactly why corporations are making record profits.

Another reason why companies are doing so well, they are paying their
employees less than they ever have before. This chart is wages as a
percentage of the economy. And as you can tell, wages for workers are at an
all-time low. Aren`t we supposed to be getting better as workers in
America? This is another reason why companies are making big profits.

People`s wages have turned into company profits. Now, look, I`m a business
guy. I love profit. We all love profit. But what about fairness?

So there you have it. Companies are just doing fine, but average Americans
aren`t. Every time unemployment numbers come out, Republicans are quick to
pounce on the fact that the matter is that companies could hire a hell of a
lot workers because they have the resources to do it, but they`re just not
doing it. Why is the financial sector -- why is the business sector sitting
on all these profits? Well, because they`re Republicans and they don`t want
Barack Obama to get re-elected.

Tonight, in our survey, I asked you do you think that Latino voters will
ever vote for Mitt Romney? Six percent of you say yes; 94 percent of you
say no.

Coming up, the jury is still out and the fate of former Penn State football
coach Jerry Sandusky hangs in the balance. Katherine Crier joins me for
that next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, a jury is still deliberating the
fate of former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky. Sandusky
is accused of molesting 10 young boys over the course of 15 years. His
arrest in November rocked Penn State University and its legendary football
program.

Two former university officials face criminal charges for their handling of
the matter. The scandal cost the university president his job and also cost
the late Joe Paterno his job after nearly 46 years of coaching. Sandusky
faces life in prison if he`s convicted on 48 counts of abuse.

Over the course of the trial, eight young men testified that they were
abused by Sandusky. NBC`s Kate Snow had an exclusive interview with one of
Sandusky`s accusers. Travis Weaver is the first alleged victim to come
forward and tell his story on TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS WEAVER, ALLEGED VICTIM OF JERRY SANDUSKY: I told him if he didn`t
get off me, I was going to call the police on him. He just laughed at me
and, you know, forced me to stay on the bed. And told me if I ever said
anything that nobody was going to believe me and he would get my dad fired
from Penn State.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Weaver has testified in front of a Grand Jury, but was not called
as a witness in the current trial. He is suing Sandusky and Penn State
University. Weaver told Kate Snow he doesn`t think Jerry Sandusky imagined
it would come to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE SNOW, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Was this a ,guy in your opinion -- was
this a guy who thought he would never get caught?

WEAVER: Yes. Yes. I don`t think the thought ever crossed his mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m joined tonight by Katherine Crier, attorney and author of "The
Patriot Acts, What Americans Must Do To Save the Republic." Great to have
you with us, Katherine.

This is the most intense and one of the most high profile child abuse cases
we have ever seen in American history, isn`t it?

KATHERINE CRIER, AUTHOR, "THE PATRIOT ACTS": Absolutely, when you`re
talking about one individual, the number of cases, the time span. And I
would like to point out, the number of people that I suspect knew, high
profile, powerful, responsible people that will never be held to account
for what they knew and what they didn`t act on.

SCHULTZ: That really is the gut wrenching story surrounding all of this, is
that there were so many people who knew that could have done something, but
because maybe of the power structure, they didn`t do anything.

CRIER: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: What do we learn from this?

CRIER: We`re not only talking about other coaches, university officials,
powerful alumni. And I`ll bet dollars to donuts, there are some cops and
even maybe right up the law enforcement chain who -- who knew, in their
heart of hearts, if not directly what was going on.

SCHULTZ: The jury has been deliberating for more than a day. What does this
mean? They have a lot to go through.

CRIER: It doesn`t mean much in the sense that jurors, I have always found,
as a trial lawyer, as a judge, that they take the responsibility very
seriously. They will go through, I believe, every count. They will take
that vote. They will be sure they`re satisfied with the results.

So if it takes a long time, many defense attorneys go, that`s good for us.
But this number of counts, if they were to come back this evening, I would
be a little surprised.

SCHULTZ: What was your reaction when Jerry Sandusky did not take the stand?

CRIER: How could he? I was reading a line -- and this was used in the
rebuttal in the Bob Costas interview. And I want to repeat this. This is
what he told Bob Costas, and it was edited from the interview. "I didn`t go
around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I have helped.
There are many that I didn`t have, I hardly had any contact with, who I
have helped in many, many ways."

How can you say something like that? Yes, you can -- you can play with it
as a defense counsel, but sounds like an admission to me. This guy would
have been torn to bits by a prosecutor if he took the stand.

SCHULTZ: The jury asked the judge to clarify some instructions today
concerning one of the alleged victims. This is pretty standard, isn`t it?

CRIER: Sure. Sure, they were a little confused, and it was where the
janitor had seen, or his colleague had said, I saw this man doing something
with this child. And unfortunately, the man who saw it now has dementia.
And they needed to know what weight they could give that janitor`s
testimony.

SCHULTZ: Where does this -- does this send a message to all institutions in
education that when someone comes forward, you know, with an allegation,
that it has to be checked out? I mean, we haven`t heard the end of this
story. There are still some other people who are going to be in front of a
judge and jury?

CRIER: Some perjury questions that may come. I would love to see a much
broader investigation. Sadly, do I think it sends a message? No. Do I think
the message that is effective -- is anybody going to get -- reap big
rewards from this in terms of civil lawsuits, if they can establish
responsibility -- because I hate to say it, it`s writing the checks that
would make a difference. The public humiliation I don`t think --

SCHULTZ: And Jerry Sandusky`s adopted son came out and said today. Now a
sequestered jury, we don`t know if they get that information.

CRIER: They shouldn`t.

SCHULTZ: But this is very damaging.

CRIER: Very damaging. And something else people need to remember,
prosecutors held back several cases. If, by some crazy event, he was
acquitted on all these charges, they have got other cases that they will
bring and prosecutor on.

SCHULTZ: Katherine Crier, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I
appreciate it.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. Ezra Klein filling in for Rachel Maddow
tonight. Good evening, Ezra.

SCHULTZ: Thank you very much, and thank you to you at home for watching.


END


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