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The Ed Show for Friday, June 29, 2012

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Guests: Meghan McCain, Dr. Michael Oppenheimer, George Miller, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED SHOW, live
from Washington, D.C.

The American people have won a historic victory in the Supreme Court. The
Affordable Care Act is constitutional and nothing will ever change that.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line here is the Supreme Court has withheld
the health care law.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The Supreme Court has stunned the nation. The
Affordable Care Act is here to stay.

has now spoken. We will continue to implement this law.

SCHULTZ: The law would not have passed without Democratic leader Nancy
Pelosi. Tonight, she joins me for an exclusive interview on today`s ruling.

(on camera): So it`s not a job killer.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: It`s not. It creates 4 million.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): On Mitt Romney`s reaction to the ruling.

PELOSI: Listening to Mitt Romney today, I was confused.

SCHULTZ: And the future for single payer.

PELOSI: As far as our families are concerned, the best is yet to come as
more of this bill, of this act, unfold.

SCHULTZ: Also tonight, former Governor Howard Dean and Congressman George
Miller on how this ruling will change your life forever.

Karen Finney on the politics of the ruling and the far right wing reaction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was an activist court that you saw today.

SCHULTZ: All that and the Democrats walk out as Darrell Issa`s political
witch hunt comes to an ugly end.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It`s clear they were not interested in
bringing an end to this dispute or even obtaining the information they say
they wanted. Ultimately, their goal was to vote that helps special interest
they now have engineered.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks, thanks for watching. It`s
a great day for Democrats, the president of the United States, Barack
Obama, and for all Americans who rely on fair and affordable health care in
this country.

Now, the Supreme Court voted to uphold the individual mandate in the
Affordable Care Act. The decision leaves the president`s signature
legislative achievement almost completely intact.

The controlling opinion was written by Chief Justice John Roberts -- which
surprised a lot of folks. Roberts broke away from the court conservatives
to side with the Obama administration in declaring the law constitutional.

The ruling gives President Obama a chance to restate and reset the table
when it comes to health care in this country. He explained today what the
law does for a vast majority of Americans.


OBAMA: Today`s decision was a victory for people all over this country
whose lives will be more secure because of this law and the Supreme Court`s
decision to uphold it. And because this law has a direct impact on so many
Americans, I want to take this opportunity to talk about what exactly it
means for you.

First, if you`re one of the more than 250 million Americans who already
have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance. This law will
only make it more secure and more affordable.

Insurance companies can no longer impose lifetime limits on the amount of
care you receive. They can no longer discriminate against children with
pre-existing conditions. They can no longer drop your coverage if you get
sick. They can no longer jack up your premiums without reason.

They are required to provide free preventive care like check-ups and
mammograms -- a provision that`s already helped 54 million Americans with
private insurance. And by this August, nearly 13 million of you will
receive a rebate from your insurance company because it spent too much on
things like administrative costs and CEO bonuses and not enough on your
health care.

There`s more. Because of the Affordable Care Act, young adults under the
age of 26 are able to stay on their parents` health care plans, a provision
that`s already helped 6 million young Americans. And because of the
Affordable Care Act, seniors receive a discount on their prescription drug
-- a discount that`s already saved more than 5 million seniors on Medicare
about $600 each.


SCHULTZ: Health care reform in America is most important for the millions
who cannot afford the high cost of private insurance. The president told
those Americans what they can rely on as this law is fully implemented.


OBAMA: If you`re one of the 30 million Americans who don`t yet have health
insurance, starting in 2014, this law will offer you an array of quality,
affordable private health insurance plans to choose from. If you`re sick,
you`ll finally have the same chance to get quality affordable health care
as everyone else. And if you can`t afford the premiums, you`ll receive a
credit that helps pay for it.


SCHULTZ: President Obama closed his remarks today with a story about one
person`s struggle with the previous health care system.


OBAMA: There`s a framed letter that hangs in my office right now. It was
sent to me during the health care debate by a woman named Natoma Canfield.
For years and years, Natoma did everything right. She bought health
insurance, she paid her premiums on time.

But 18 years ago, Natoma was diagnosed with cancer, and even though she`d
been cancer free for more than a decade, her insurance company kept jacking
up her rates year after year, and despite her desire to keep her coverage,
despite her fears that she would get sick again, she had to surrender her
health insurance and was forced to hang her fortunes on chance.

Natoma is well today, and because of this law, there are other Americans,
other sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers, who
will not have to hang their fortunes on chance. These are the Americans for
whom we passed this law.


SCHULTZ: And we are told the president called that lady tonight to
congratulate her.

The court decision marks an end to the second major battle over health care
reform. Republicans are determined to have a third battle. Their only
recourse is to tell the American people that they will repeal the law.

Mitt Romney said the court`s decision was wrong and he will dedicate his
presidency to fighting it.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What the court did not do on its
last day in session, I will do on my first day if elected president of the
United States. And that is, I will act to repeal Obamacare.

Let`s make clear that we understand what the court did and did not do. What
the court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the
Constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is a good law or
that it`s good policy.


SCHULTZ: Well, Mitt Romney needs to get with the program. It`s not the job
of the Supreme Court to decide whether a law is good policy. The Supreme
Court decides whether a law is valid by the letter of the United States

There is no more debate over the Affordable Care Act. It is constitutional.
This is a day of vindication in my respects. Every Democratic president
since Franklin Roosevelt had health care reform on their agenda.

There`s a feeling among the Democrats here in Washington that they have
really accomplished something that is going to be great for generations to
come. As Joe Biden said, leaving out the F-word, this really is a big deal.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think tonight. Tonight`s
question: did the Supreme Court make the right decision?

Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639, you can always go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

I`m joined tonight by the senior Democrat on the House Education and
Workforce Committee, George Miller of California. And Howard Dean, former
governor of Vermont and chairman of the DNC.

Gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight.

Congressman, let me start with you. I believe if I have my numbers right,
it was 38 years ago you were elected to the Congress.


SCHULTZ: You wanted to stop the war in Vietnam and you want to get health
care. This has been a long haul for you.

MILLER: It`s a long haul.

SCHULTZ: You got to feel great.

MILLER: I feel great. It`s a very, very exciting day for the American
people. Just think, they have access to affordable health care that cannot
be taken away, and they control their health care decisions now, not the
insurance companies.

SCHULTZ: What does this mean? Does this there`s more to come? Does this set
the table?

MILLER: This sets the table in terms of the benefits that the president
outlined that cut through the entire American society of people benefitting
from this, including small businesses that are getting the tax credits.

But we know there`s more to come, because there`s more to come from the
Republicans who have now decided they`ll launch a legislative assault
against what happened today, where for the first time in the history of
this country, Americans have health care that can`t be taken away, that`s
affordable, and they get all of the additional benefits of reduced cost for
prescription drugs and for wellness care, for mammograms, all the things
that are important to families.

SCHULTZ: I went to the Republican briefing on the Hill today. They are
calling it a job killer. They are saying it`s terrible for small business.

You didn`t say that.

MILLER: Well, the fact is that we have about 300,000 small businesses and 2
million of their employees have gotten health care since this became the
law because they get credits to help pay for the health care. These small
businesses want to offer health care, they couldn`t afford it because of
the nature of their business.

SCHULTZ: Now they can?

MILLER: Now they can and they are doing it. They are doing it.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, we know one thing about the Republicans, they don`t
give up, and the next four months are going to be politically brutal.

First of all, your response to the ruling today. I know you`re not a fan of
the mandate. Your response to the ruling and your coaching, so to speak, on
how the Democrats have to sell this the next four months and run on it.

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: Well, first of all, this was a great
ruling, not in the least because John Roberts, they are going to have a
hard time calling John Roberts a socialist, even on FOX News.

Secondly, Governor Romney -- if Governor Romney hadn`t been governor of
Massachusetts, we wouldn`t be seeing this bill, because he pioneered the
bill, so for him to criticize is it just ludicrous.

Thirdly, George is right, a lot of good -- I wasn`t a big fan of the bill.
I thought the House did a great job of the bill. I wasn`t a fan the bill as
it came out of the Senate, but there are a lot of good things in this bill
that are going to make a big difference to people.

I`m a little nervous about the Medicaid ruling because Medicaid has insured
more people under this bill than anything else, and I want to take a look
and see if that got undermined by the reservations judge -- Justice Roberts

But in general, it`s a great day for the president and all the people who
worked hard to do this. This is not the way I would have done it, but this
is a universal system, other countries use this kind of a universal system
and it`s time America join the rest of the industrialized democracies in
the world.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, should Republicans -- should Democrats run on this?
I mean, should they go home and say this is what we accomplished, the
Supreme Court`s with us and let`s move forward? Is that a good play for the

DEAN: They can, Ed, but the truth is the Republicans are doing this to whip
up their base, they are not doing this because swing voters don`t like --
swing voters like what`s in this bill. They do. They don`t like the
mandate, but they do like the benefits for their kids, for their parents,
their ability to move their insurance if they lose their job. I mean --


DEAN: -- one of the terrifying things about losing your job when you`re 55
is you`ll never get insurance again, now you will because Obama and the
Congress -- and Democrats in the Congress of the United States.

So, again, this election is going to be on the economy and whether people
trust Mitt Romney to represent their interests, which they overwhelmingly
do not, because they know he`s for the 1 percent. I think this is a great
day for the Democrats, and they`ve earned it.

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney made a lot of misleading statements about the law
today in his statement. Here it is.


ROMNEY: Obamacare adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt
and pushes those obligations on to coming generations. Obamacare also means
that for up to 20 million Americans, they will lose the insurance they
currently have, the insurance that they like and they want to keep.
Obamacare is a job killer.


SCHULTZ: Congressman, it`s like it`s two different worlds.

MILLER: It is two different worlds.

SCHULTZ: I mean, is he lying to the American people?

MILLER: He`s misleading the American people. He`s lying to the American
people, because that`s not what it does. He knows that the congressional
budget office says that this saves over $1 trillion in reducing health care
costs over the coming years. It`s the beginning of the reduction of health
care costs.

The fact of the matter is, we see small businesses expanding their
businesses, providing health care to their employees because they get some
assistance through the job credits.

And remember this, something else goes along with this health care coverage
that can never be taken away, economic security.

You know how many millions of Americans in this recession lost their health
care because they lost their job, not because they weren`t good workers,
it`s because of the scandals on Wall Street they lost their jobs, then they
lost their health care, and then they ended up in bankruptcy court. That
doesn`t happen to people in the future.

And for people who want to start a business but worry about leaving the
company they are with because their wife and spouse -- their spouse, if you
will, and child, they can now be entrepreneurial. They can start

This is economic security and economic growth for this nation, because
health care was going up 16 percent a year before we ever talked about
introducing this bill. Companies were coming in all of the time and saying,
I`m going to drop my health care, I`m going to drop my health care, I`m
going to drop my health care.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, I want to ask about how you think the Romney
campaign is going to play this move forward. I made a comment earlier today
and I believe this. I mean, I think it`s going to be easier for him because
now he doesn`t have to come up with a health care plan, all he`s got to do
is run against Obamacare, as he calls it.

DEAN: Yes, but the problem is, the court has given its imprimatur to this.
That matters to America. Truly the court has its low ratings and all that
because they`re so political, but when you get a court, especially led by a
conservative, who everybody knows is a conservative, who supports this,
that gives Obama some cover.

This still is also going to have some unintended consequences, most of
which are good. For example, the Democrats don`t like me to say this, but
it is true that small businesses in droves are going to put their people
out of their own insurance and into the exchanges. That`s going to be great
for the small businesses and good for the employees who are now going to
have insurance that doesn`t depend on their employment. So even some of the
things that weren`t intended in this bill are going to be very good.

The ACOs, which is a complicated thing we don`t have to get into is
probably going to end up reforming the way we pay for health care and in
turn this into a wellness system, instead of an illness system.

So, there`s a lot of stuff in this bill that`s going to work out very, very
well. There`s some things -- the expenses are going to have to be dealt
with down the road, but this is a big step forward.

SCHULTZ: And we should point out that the Medicare expansion is going to be
paid for with federal funds the first three years 100 percent.

MILLER: Yes, Medicaid.

SCHULTZ: Medicaid, Medicaid.


DEAN: I`d like to hear what George says about this, because this is a
critical piece, and I think Congress is going to have to deal with that.
That`s the one thing I worry about.

SCHULTZ: The Medicaid expansion, 100 percent paid for the first three

MILLER: For three years and then it goes down to 90 percent, over, goes to
97, 94 --

SCHULTZ: So, how are Republicans going to say no to that money?

MILLER: I don`t think they are. This is the highest reimbursement level,
you know, participation, cost sharing that they`ve had from the federal
government in history, and I think very clearly that this is very helpful
to the governors getting these people covered, because otherwise, these
unreimbursed costs are laid off on to the state taxpayer or to the
hospitals and their users or to the insured.

So, this is very helpful to the governors. I know philosophically a handful
won`t like it, they`ll be showing up to ask for the program.

SCHULTZ: Well, I know both of you gentlemen have dedicated your careers to
doing something about health care in this country and something really got
done today. Congressman George Miller and Howard Dean -- great to have you
with us tonight on THE ED SHOW. Thanks so much.

DEAN: Thanks very much.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what you

Up next, my exclusive interview with Nancy Pelosi, who takes a real whack
at Mitt Romney. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, my exclusive interview with House Democratic leader
Nancy Pelosi. Hear her thoughts on today`s ruling, on Mitt Romney`s
reaction to the ruling, and the future of single payer, which is what
Democrats really want.

Later, Democrats walk out on Darrell Issa`s witch hunt and the attorney
general is fighting back. Congressman Keith Ellison left in Capitol in
protest today and he is here with me tonight.

Share your thoughts on Twitter using the #EdShow. We are coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. This is a big day for President Obama
and the progressive movement in this country.

But it would have never happened if it had not been for the speaker of the
House at the time who never gave up.

Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi sat down with me for an exclusive interview
just hours after the ruling today. I asked her if she feels vindicated
after fighting so hard for reform.


PELOSI: I don`t know if "vindicated" is the word. I`m really very, very
happy. I always knew -- I always thought this would be upheld. This is
about, you know, people said, oh, yes, people suffer because politically
because of this vote.

I think the election of 2010 was about 9.5 percent unemployment, $200
million was spent misrepresenting the health care bill. Nine and a half
percent unemployment, it`s hard to get through that shield to explain

But our members felt proud of what they did. We feel that we stand in the
ranks of those who passed Social Security, Medicare, and now, health care
for all Americans as a right, not a privilege.

So we came to do a job and now we`re glad that the court upholds it.

SCHULTZ: There`s a lot of Americans out there that stood with you on health
care. They are not in the Congress today. The Tea Party ran against them,
the Tea Party went after them on this health care bill.

What do you say to them, was that a courageous vote?

PELOSI: They stood very strong, and I`ve heard from most of them today.
After the election when we met, they said I would never reverse my vote on
health care for any reason. That`s what I came there to do.

SCHULTZ: What are the next four months going to be like coming into the
election? Mr. Boehner just said over in this other press conference that
the American people are going to have to decide whether they want this or

PELOSI: I think the decision has been made. The more people who are taking
advantage of the health care reform, some of the provisions that are
already in effect, know how important it is to them, whether it`s pre-
existing conditions, staying on your parents` plan, whether it`s lower-cost
drugs, prescription drugs for seniors, those kinds of issues.

And the more people know what it means to them, the more popular the bill
will be, no matter what the other side says.

SCHULTZ: Listening to Mitt Romney today, he`s clearly going to run against
this. Is this a political winner?

PELOSI: I think, listening to Mitt Romney today, I was confused, because it
was as if he was for it before he was against it, and now he`s both. He
supports the decision of the court to overturn the entire bill and yet he
said, but if they do that, you still cannot be discriminated on the basis
of pre-existing medical conditions.

How`s that happen?


PELOSI: Is he going to pay for it? Maybe he`s volunteering, but the fact
is, you cannot have it both ways.

SCHULTZ: President Obama said today that this is going to reduce cost.
President Obama said today that this is going to save the country money.

PELOSI: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: In the other room, the Republicans are saying that, no, this is
going to blow up the deficit and the CBO scores it as a financial winner
over the long haul. Who`s telling the truth?

PELOSI: Well, first of all, when we did the bill, one of the main purposes
of the bill, in addition to the right of people to have access to health
care, the cost of health care in our country was totally unsustainable, for
individuals, for families, for businesses large and small, for governments
-- state, local, and federal budgets, and for our economy, because the
health care costs are as competitive in this issue.

So, lowering cost was an essential part of how we went down this path, but
also it has built into it, studies from the institute of medicine, et
cetera, to say we have to make choices in care that are about volume -- not
about volume, but value, not volume; quality, not quantity of procedures;
addressing regional disparities -- all of that technical, but nonetheless
substantial in terms of cost.

SCHULTZ: But they say it`s not cost efficient and they are going to run on

PELOSI: Well, you know what? We`ll just have to have that debate, because
what they want is insurance companies to have their way. I mean, it`s just
what it is. You have a combination of health insurance industry and the
anti-government ideologues who go out there and fight against this bill.

What they want is for the insurance companies -- had a good gig, huh, they
could charge anything, ever increase the cost, you get sick, you use your
policy and then if you`re -- you can even have your policy rescinded on the
way to the operating room.

SCHULTZ: So, they spent a lot money telling the American people that this
is not good.


SCHULTZ: And the next four months is going to be important messaging to the
American people that this is good.

PELOSI: Yes. But I think elections are always about jobs. They`re always
about jobs. So, that`s really what the debate will be.

SCHULTZ: Well, they call it a job killer.

PELOSI: It creates 4 millions. Health insurance -- health insurance is the
fastest growing entity in our economy.

SCHULTZ: So, it`s not a job killer.

PELOSI: It`s not. It creates 4 million jobs. It reduces the deficit. It
lowers cost to individuals. It improves quality and expands coverage.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on Chief Justice Roberts` decision.

PELOSI: Chief Justice Roberts` decision I believe is consistent with his
writings and his pronouncements in the past about the extent of the Supreme
Court`s rule in passing on constitutionality.

That`s why I always seven, I mean, 6-3, I anticipate we could possibly get
Kennedy. But I was wrong. But we did win, and I was right on that.

SCHULTZ: You had very emotional phone call this morning with Vicki Kennedy?

PELOSI: I did. I call Vicki as soon as we knew to make sure Vicki because I
didn`t know she had the TV on. And I called Vicki and I said, you know,
thank you, congratulations. And she was saying the same thing back to me.

I said to her, I said, you know, we all know that this would not have
happened without Teddy. It was his life`s work. It was called the great
unfinished of our country. Now, finally, Teddy, as far as health care is
concerned, can rest in peace.

SCHULTZ: But how do you feel that you`re going to be remembered as the
speaker that went back in and saved it? I remember a conversation I had
with Robert Gibbs, he says we`re not going to get health care. And a few
days later, you went in and revived it.

PELOSI: I never -- it was never a thought in my mind that we wouldn`t have
it. I don`t care what anybody else had to say about it.

SCHULTZ: You were going to do it.

PELOSI: We were going to do it. We had that urgency, we had the value, we
had the votes, and we were going to make it happen.

Some of the -- you know, one of these days in conversation, we can talk
about those who wanted to wait until we could get 60 votes and I was
saying, I`m going 51.

SCHULTZ: Finally, is this Kennedy-like? It didn`t get everything, but you
got a -- you know, you got a great start and you got some great things.
That was kind of his philosophy, take what you can get and move it forward.

PELOSI: We got much more than that. We got much more than that. Yes, Teddy
was a person who said, you know, you have to see a victory and recognize it
when it is in sight.

I wanted to have a bill that accomplished the same things as a single payer
or a public option would do. Even if we couldn`t get the votes in the
Senate to do the public option, and I believe we did that. I think we would
have saved more money if we had the public option, and I think that -- but
I think that our purposes are served by this, and if it enabled us to go
forward, then so be it.

One of these days, I do still believe that the decision -- the judgment
will be made maybe by states about their doing single payer on their own
and the rest. But in the meantime, as far as meeting the needs of
individuals and families, we`re there and as I keep saying, as far as our
families are concerned, the best is yet to come.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, the witch hunt about Republican Congressman Darrell
Issa came to a ridiculous political peak today. Congressman Keith Ellison
of Minnesota joins me.

And also, Congressman Mike Pence compared today`s health care ruling to
9/11? Karen Finney will weigh in on the Republican reaction. Stay tuned. Be
right back.


SCHULTZ: We`re still waiting for an apology. Just looking out for you,
Bill. Last night, the vacationing O`Reilly called in to his own show to
warn viewers that this ruling was all part of a left wing plot to
redistribute the wealth.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: For poor Americans, it`s good because the
government is going to give them health insurance, just hand it to them for
free, just like they give welfare, Food Stamps, whatever. It`s another
entitlement. For more affluent Americans and some working Americans, it`s
bad because their taxes are going to go up to pay for the free stuff, the
free health care that`s going to the poor Americans.


SCHULTZ: And O`Reilly isn`t alone in his delusional ramblings. Take a look.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I can`t tell you how sick I am. I am
literally sick over what happened yesterday. Total fraud was perpetrated on
this country.

O`REILLY: So working Americans, middle class Americans have to decide, do
you want to be Sweden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this, Russia?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m scared we`re becoming socialists, frankly.

GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Progressives are fascists. They`re fascists.

SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: If Obama is re-elected, well,
America, you will no longer recognize the country that today you truly

BECK: Progressivism, it`s a disease, and it`s in both parties. It`s in both
parties. And if we don`t wipe out the progressive idea, if we don`t correct
that in the minds, those people shoot people that disagree where them.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Van Jones, president of Rebuild the Dream and the
author of the book by the same name "Rebuild the Dream." It starts out with
a little bit of comedy, this segment, but then when you hear something like
that and you think about the head shaking crowd in America, where`s this
anger going to take this country, Van? Good to have you with us tonight.

VAN JONES, PRESIDENT, REBUILD THE DREAM: First of all, it`s good to be
here, and this is a good Friday for America. I mean, when you see people
going this nuts, you know, you know something good has happened in America.
They`re trying to go in the medicine cabinet and try to find the pills that
-- to try to blame on this decision.

Here is what actually happened. When we fight, we win. When good people in
America say, we`re tired of 30 million people not having health insurance,
we`re tired of kids who are 22, 23 years old, can`t find work, not having
health insurance, and we`re going to do something about it, we can actually
get it done. That`s all that happened.

The same thing happened with the student loan fight today. The students
looked up and they said, listen, we`re about to get socked with double
interest rates, young people with Rebuild the Dream, the Purgs (ph), USAA
stood up. The Senate and the House followed.

What is happening and why these people are freaking out is because good
people in America of all colors and all classes are starting to act like we
have some sense. It makes no sense to live in the richest country in the
world and have people dying in emergency rooms and not being able to get
good health care.

It makes no sense for us to be closing the door to college for the next
generation. So we`re just going to keep stepping forward, one foot in front
of the other, making these changes, and they`re going to keep freaking out.
But the reality is that when you see this level of venom on their side,
they`re just being sore losers.

The Supreme Court has spoken. Their justice -- they loved this justice,
Justice Roberts. They talked about how incredibly brilliant he was. He came
down on our side. Don`t be a sore loser now. If he was good enough for
every other decision, he should be good enough on this one. If he wasn`t
popping pills in the other decisions, why is he suddenly popping pills on
this one?

SCHULTZ: Van, what is this summer going to be like with the Tea Party? Are
we going to see like what we saw back in 2010?

JONES: You know, I don`t know because I think what you`re seeing is
progressives starting to get energized now. I think what -- we learned a
lesson. In Wisconsin, we put our minimum against their maximum. Now on the
ground, they fought hard, but the progressive nationally, we didn`t show up
for the fight. We put our minimum against their maximum in Wisconsin and we

On health care, we put our maximum against their maximum. On the student
loan fight, we put our maximum against their maximum and we won. I think
what you`re going to see is progressives saying, hold on a second, we don`t
have to get rolled by these people. They lied, they screamed. They say that
this bill -- all this bill`s saying is if you`re a slacker, you`re going to
get taxed. It`s a tax on slackers who don`t want to pay for their health
insurance. They want to dive bombs themselves into an emergency room and
make us pay for it.

If you`re that kind of person, you get taxed. That`s the only tax you`re
going to get. Now if they`re going to scream and yell and lie and say
that`s socialism, I think more of us are going to start saying, hold on a
second, we`re not going to get intimidated and bullied by these people.
We`re going to keep making positive changes for Americans and let them
scream and holler.

SCHULTZ: Van, great to have you with us. Van Jones here on THE ED SHOW
tonight. Thanks so much.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW. Stay
with us.


OBAMA: The highest court in the land has now spoken. We will continue to
implement this law.


SCHULTZ: The high court ruling takes Obama`s June from swoon to boon. The
big panel is next.


OBAMA: When natural disasters like this hit, America comes together.


SCHULTZ: The president visits the record wildfires in Colorado. And a
leading climate scientist says this is what global warming looks like. Dr.
Michael Oppenheimer joins me tonight.

And sometimes laughter is the best medicine.


STEPHEN COLBERT, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Roberts has always been in Obama`s
pocket. Think about it. He is the one who single handedly made Obama


SCHULTZ: We`ll bring you all of the funnies following yesterday`s historic


JAY LENO, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": If you watch his body language closely, you
can see he`s feeling pretty good about it. Here he is.



SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Mitt Romney now has a new position on
immigration, another one. Just last week, Romney told a group of Latino
elected officials that the -- only military service would pave the way to
citizenship for thousands of young people who were brought here illegally
as children. This is what Romney told "Newsmax" today.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For those that are here as the
children of those that came here illegally, I want to make sure they have a
permanent answer to what their status will be. And I have indicated, in my
view, that those who serve in the military and have advanced degrees would
certainly qualify for that kind of permanence.


SCHULTZ: I tell you, unless I missed something, it sounds an awful lot like
what President Obama has been doing as of late and his position on this.
The campaign is now scrambling. They told "Talking Points Memo" that Mr.
Romney just misspoke. I guess he`s just as confused about his position on
immigration as the rest of us are.

So let`s sort it out. Let`s turn to Krystal Ball and Steve Kornacki, hosts
of the new show here on MSNBC "THE CYCLE." Great, congratulations. And
Meghan McCain with us today, columnist for the "Daily Beast."

All right, if it`s not immigration, it`s immigration. How does he mop this
up, Krystal?

KRYSTAL BALL, MSNBC ANCHOR: It`s so -- I feel bad for him, he`s having
trouble keeping track of his own positions. But I think it just underscores
the fact that because he went so far to the right in the primary, it`s very
difficult for him to make any movement back to the center. And even though
immigration is not the top issue for most American voters, it`s one that
Republicans are very sensitive about.

Anything that smacks of amnesty is going to be treated as treason on the

SCHULTZ: You know, Meghan, your dad didn`t have a problem with this. Your
campaign didn`t have a problem with this when he was running in 2008.
What`s the problem here?

MEGHAN MCCAIN, "THE DAILY BEAST": I think he just misspoke. I think it`s as
simple as he`s exhausted. He`s been on the road a long time. This is the
dog days of summer. I am giving him a break on this one. I just think he
just misspoke, which is blasphemy. I know. God forbid somebody make a

SCHULTZ: Well, does he have to come back and correct it, because it`s
totally different from what he said before? That`s a pretty 30 second
misspeak, is a misspeak.

MCCAIN: Listen, is this a great week for Republicans and Romney, everyone
on this panel? No, it is not a great week for Republicans and it`s not a
great week for Mitt Romney. But I just think he misspoke. I don`t know.

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC ANCHOR: I think what`s happened here is he was
telegraphing pretty clearly what he was going to do on immigration after
the primaries, because he did move so far to the right and he was aware of
the need to get back to the middle. And what he was going to do was wait
for Marco Rubio to propose the watered down version of the DREAM Act. It`s
not citizenship for children of illegal immigrants, but permanent work
status in the United States.

That`s what he was waiting for. This -- what he said tonight sort of
underscores the degree to which Obama stole his thunder. Obama basically
came out and took what Rubio was going to propose, and said I`m now
declaring this the policy of my government, my administration. It left
Romney with no path to the middle.

MCCAIN: If that`s what he was going to do, he should have stood by it. I
don`t think if that is actually what he was doing then he should have back

KORNACKI: That`s the problem. It looks like anything he says now, he`s
echoing Obama, which as the challengers, obviously, he doesn`t want to do.
He doesn`t want to agree with Obama. He wanted to get to the middle, but
his path to the middle is gone. And the only way to get there is by
agreeing with Obama. It`s a terrible bind.

BALL: And the fundamental problem here is that every decision he makes and
every position that he takes is calculated politically, rather than what he
actually believes. So when the president cut him off at the pass, he`s not
doing to say, well, this is my firmly held view. He`s going to try to pivot
and make the best political chess move he can --


BALL: No, take for example the gay marriage decision. Like that was a very
politically perilous thing to do. And was the timing of that forced by Joe
Biden? Absolutely. But if you look at the polling in swing states, gay
marriage is still a very tough sell. So that`s an example where he was
courageous and politically ahead of the curve. I don`t think we`ve had a
similar one from Mitt Romney.

MCCAIN: But I think when it comes to immigration, the president just made a
politically expedient move specifically for political purposes.

BALL: Do you believe it`s his firmly held believe?

MCCAIN: The president`s? Of course. But I don`t believe that Mitt Romney --

BALL: That`s the difference.

MCCAIN: I don`t believe that Mitt Romney is simply doing things just for
politics. I do think he believe what he believes, and he made a mistake.
And I`m up against three right now.


SCHULTZ: This is Ed the moderator here. Come on. Who won the month? We`re
the end of June here. Who won the month?

MCCAIN: Has it been a great month for Republicans? No, but I don`t know. I
still think it`s the dog days of summer. It`s a long time until the

KORNACKI: I think any month that Obama ends ahead in the polls, with the
unemployment rate sitting where it`s sitting, Obama basically has won the
month. We`re at the end of this month where we were a month ago. He`s still
a few points ahead of Mitt Romney. And the unemployment rate hasn`t come
down or anything. So he`s sort of defying gravity. He`s still defying
gravity at the end of June.

BALL: Yes, I agree with that. I think this has been a good month
particularly towards the end here for the president, particularly with the
health care ruling this week, which was unexpected I think. Even myself, I
was sort of building myself up for a disappointment, and was surprised with
the Supreme Court ruling in a way.

So it was a good month for the president, but we have a long summer ahead
of us. I totally agree with you there, Meghan. And we have a lot of
economic uncertainty ahead, too.

SCHULTZ: A lot of things can happen in 120 days.

BALL: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: About, give or take a few. Great to have you with us, Krystal
Ball, Steve Kornacki and Meghan McCain.

Up next, late night comedians were on fire last night thanks to the Supreme
Court`s health care ruling. We`ll bring you all the highlights next. Stay
with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Thursday`s historic Supreme Court
ruling on President Obama`s health care law created an historic evening of
late night comedy. Here`s a quick recap of last night`s laughs in case you
missed it.


LENO: Did you see President Obama`s reaction to the Supreme Court ruling?
It`s interesting, he didn`t want to gloat, but if you watch his body
language closely, you could see he was feeling pretty good about it. Here
he is today.


Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi wore her lucky purple shoes for the Supreme
Court`s health care ruling, while House Speaker John Boehner wore his lucky
orange face.

JON STEWART, "THE DAILY SHOW": So the fiscally responsible Republican is
saying, don`t worry, you`re going to get all the goodies but not the bill,
because that would be taxes and that would be tyranny, except in
Massachusetts, where it worked and -- oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it, just make
me president, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chief Justice Roberts decided to take a walk over to
the liberal side.

COLBERT: J-Rob, how could you? I trusted you. I`m not the only one who has
had their man crush crushed. Republicans Congressman and Georgia Peach Phil
Gingrey said of Roberts, "I don`t want to drink a beer with him today. I`m
not calling for his impeachment. I`m just very, very disappointed."

Are you happy, Justice Roberts? Now, Phil Gingrey is going to have to spend
another night drinking alone.

And you know what? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it, I might join him. Look, why not?
Why not? My liver`s covered now.


SCHULTZ: His liver`s covered now. Tonight in our survey, I ask you will
Republicans ever stop lying about health care. Six percent of you say yes;
94 percent of you said no.

Coming up, record-breaking fires and record-breaking heat. Experts say this
is what global climate change actually looks like. We`ll sort through the
facts with a top scientist when we come back. Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all the way down the hill, dude. Look at this. We
got to go.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is crazy. I have never seen anything like this in
my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The animals are freaking out. Our dogs are going nuts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Denise, you have to see this. Those flames are massive.


SCHULTZ: Pretty scary stuff. The heat wave that`s breaking records across
the country still poses a serious risk in Colorado tonight. The so-called
superfire is only 15 percent contained, but that`s actually good news. Tens
of thousands of firefighters and volunteers have been working 18 hour
shifts for the past seven days.

Today, they finally made some headway. The fires have burned almost 17,000
acres, and forced 32,000 people to evacuate. And look at this. The fires
are so big you can see smoke from space. A NASA satellite captured these
images over the Rockies just in the last 24 hours.

President Obama flew to Colorado Springs so he could thank some of the
firefighters in person. He`s already cleared millions of dollars in
disaster relief.


OBAMA: We want to just say thank you to all of the folks who have been
involved in this. We`re proud of you. We appreciate what you do each and
every day. So for folks all around the country, I hope you are reminded of
how important our fire departments are, our Forest Services. Sometimes they
don`t get the credit that they deserve until your house is burning down.


SCHULTZ: But there`s a bigger question tonight about why these fires are
worse than they have ever been before. Experts say we`re seeing a real
evidence of global climate change.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me just show you how hot, once again, it`s going to
be in the next three days. Here`s the forecast for today. Again, near 108
in St. Louis. Many areas above 100.


SCHULTZ: The heat wave is just part of the problem. Look at these
temperatures. Cities across the country are breaking all-time heat records
right now. We had a dire -- should I say drier than average winter, and now
it`s hotter than average summer. Pretty extreme.

It looks like climate change turned Colorado into a tinder box. I`m joined
tonight by Dr. Michael Oppenheimer, professor of geosciences and
international affairs at Princeton University.

Doctor, great to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: How extreme is this? How extraordinary is this?

OPPENHEIMER: What`s unusual is to see this kind of explosive fire event
occur early in the season. Usually, this kind of thing will occur later. To
see this in the midst of a heat wave and dry situation that is very wide
spread across the country, it really is, as you said at the beginning --
it`s dire. It`s not just drier. This is a dire picture of what the future
holds if we don`t bring global warming under control.

SCHULTZ: Is this what global warming looks like?

OPPENHEIMER: As I said the other day, this is what part of it looks like.
There are other pictures that are just as disturbing. Let`s focus on this.
What does global warming do? Well, it`s making Earth warmer. Earth is about
more than degree warmer than it was previously, in pre-industrial times. It
makes many areas drier.

If you dry Earth out, if you make it hotter, you get dead trees because of
the transition that results in the forest. Dead wood, heat, drought, you
get fire.

SCHULTZ: Do we have to manage our forests differently or take a real
serious look at this?

OPPENHEIMER: We have been managing our forests -- for many, many decades,
the forests were managed to suppress fire. Now more and more, they have
been managed in a way to let fire burn to some extent, because all that
suppression of fire just let dead wood build up. Now we are going to have
to think about these policies carefully, because we`re going into a future
with a very, very high risk of fire, because we`re going to have more heat
in certain areas, more drought.

And you`ve always got the ignition happening because you have always got
lightning and you have always got careless people with matches.

SCHULTZ: So we`re going to see more of this kind of stuff possibly?

OPPENHEIMER: The risk is increasing unless we act to stem the emissions of
the Greenhouse Gases that are causing the problem, which result from the
burning of coal, oil, and natural gas. We`re simply going to increase the
risk. And that means more pictures like that.

SCHULTZ: Can this happen in our lifetime? I mean, this is --

OPPENHEIMER: It`s happening already. We have already increased the
temperature of Earth. We have already increased the number of heat waves
and the intensity of heat waves. We have already caused certain areas to
get drier. When the two combine, this is what you get.

SCHULTZ: What is your recommendation to stop climate change?

OPPENHEIMER: Climate change needs to be slowed by, first, using energy much
more efficiently. You should be driving the car with the highest fuel
economy that you can get. You should take those ads seriously about putting
in the highly efficient compact florescent bulbs.

When you go to the store to buy an appliance, you look at the yellow
sticker and get the one that EPA says is the most efficient, because the
less electricity you use, the less Greenhouse Gases are produced by the
power plants, and the more money you save. It`s ridiculous to throw the
money away.

SCHULTZ: What about air quality? What does it do to air quality?

OPPENHEIMER: You can see the fires themselves wreck air quality. In
additions, these same fuels which are causing the build-up of the
Greenhouse Gases like Carbon Dioxide themselves are the major cause of air
pollution. We could clear up the air. We could slow down and eventually
stop global warming, if we did a long-term transition to non-fossil based
fuels. That is solar energy, wind, et cetera.

If we do that at the same time, using energy more efficiently -- and you
know what? The U.S. is already starting to do this even without a lot of
policy coming out of Washington. We need to move to a phase where
Washington gets actively engaged.

SCHULTZ: What do you say to critics that they say this isn`t happening?

OPPENHEIMER: Head in the sand. A lot of people said smoking doesn`t cause
lung cancer, but it does. I don`t want to take that risk with the whole

SCHULTZ: And do you think that Washington has a grip on how serious all
this is?

OPPENHEIMER: I think the president understands. I think some in Congress
understand. There are big issues which are getting in the way. The economy
is a serious problem. But this is a long term problem. The longer they put
off dealing with it, the more serious it is because the gases live in the
atmosphere for centuries once you put them there. So you better not let
them get there in the first place.

The administration has taken certain steps. They`ve increased the fuel
economy of automobiles. Even the Bush administration took a step in that
direction. They`ve now got rules on power plants. There`s a lot more that
they need to do.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Michael Oppenheimer, Princeton University, good to have you
with us tonight. Thank you, enjoyed. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz.
"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now.


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