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The Ed Show for Monday, July 2, 2012

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Guests: Keith Boykin, Errol Louis, Bill Nye

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

The Supreme Court has done the country a favor. They have exposed
the Republicans` attitude towards health care.

They couldn`t care less about the uninsured in the country. That`s
the top story, that`s what everybody should be talking about.

The Republicans have told us: you`re uninsured, you`re on your own.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS: You talk about repeal. How would you
provide universal coverage?


SCHULTZ (voice-over): Mitch McConnell totally exposes his party on
health care.

WALLACE: I just want to ask, what specifically are you going to do
to provide universal coverage to the 30 million people who are uninsured?

MCCONNELL: That is not the issue.

SCHULTZ: Howard Fineman on the fallout from McConnell`s epic gaffe.

The Romney campaign destroys a weekend`s worth of talking points in
20 seconds.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: What you just said is that Governor Romney
agrees it`s not a tax.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He agreed with the dissent from Justice Scalia
which very carefully stated that the mandate was not a tax.

SCHULTZ: Joan Walsh and Richard Wolf on the death of a Republican

Rick Scott tells Floridians without health insurance to suck it up.

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: We`re not going to implement Obamacare
in Florida. We`re not going to expand Medicaid, because we`re going to do
the right thing.

SCHULTZ: E.J. Dionne has the latest.

And Tea Partiers are burning Obamacare in effigy. The big panel on
the growing resistance movement on the far right.

GLENN BECK, GBTV: Look out. Look out progressives. This is what
America is at her best, and you`ll never see us coming because you don`t
understand us.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Top Republican leaders are finally revealing what the health care
debate in the country is all about. For Republicans, health care is a
privilege. And if you can`t afford it, well, you`re just out of luck.

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell was asked on safe haven FOX
News on Sunday -- you know, what are you going to do with the uninsured if
you guys go out and you repeal the health care law? What are you going to


WALLACE: One of the keys to Obama care is it will extend insurance
access to 30 million people who are now uninsured. In your replacement,
how would you provide universal coverage?

MCCONNELL: Well, first, let me say the single best thing we could do
for the American health care system is to get rid of Obamacare.


SCHULTZ: Well, if you didn`t hear an answer to the question, you`re
not alone. Chris Wallace tried to get the senator to answer the question


MCCONNELL: The single biggest step we could take in the direction of
improving American health care is to get rid of this thing.

WALLACE: But if I may, sir, you talk about repeal and replace. How
would you provide universal coverage?


SCHULTZ: Chris Wallace is getting a good taste of what President
Obama and the Democrats are dealing with.

McConnell is the master of obstruction. Nobody has done it better,
nobody has done it more. But the third time was the charm for the question
about the uninsured.


MCCONNELL: Billions and billions of dollars are lost every year by
hospitals and doctors in defensive medicine.


WALLACE: But respectfully, sir, we`re going to run out of time and I
just want to ask, what specifically are you going to do to provide
universal coverage to the 30 million people who are uninsured?

MCCONNELL: That is not the issue.


SCHULTZ: It is not the issue -- 30 million Americans cannot afford
the cost of health care insurance in the country and they receive no
government assistance. An entire political party does not believe these
Americans have done enough to earn the right to get insurance.

Chris Wallace gave Mitch McConnell a chance to clarify what he meant.


MCCONNELL: It is already the finest health care system in the world.

WALLACE: But you don`t think that --

MCCONNELL: What our friends on --

WALLACE: The 30 million people uninsured isn`t an issue?

MCCONNELL: Let me tell you what we`re not going to do? We`re not
going to turn the American health care system into a Western European


SCHULTZ: No, they don`t come up with any good ideas at all, a
Western European system.

So, in other words, if they come up with a cure for cancer in some
Western European country, we`re Americans, especially Republican view, we
don`t want anything to do with that at all, do we?

What exactly is he talking about? The United States has the highest
cost of health care in a study of seven industrialized nations by the
Commonwealth Fund. The United States was also dead last in quality and
access to care.

As you can see, three of those countries are from Western Europe.
And one of them is what I call the denial to the north. Good old Canada.

Republicans hate to talk about what the Canadians do when it talks to
health care. All they want to talk about is these long lines and nobody
ever gets to see a doctor up there. In fact, you have to wait years to see
a doctor in Canada. It`s all B.S.

It`s clear the GOP was absolutely blind sided by this Supreme Court
ruling. Speaker John Boehner is still planning on holding a repeal vote in
the House, but he cannot answer questions on what he would replace the law


NORAH O`DONNELL, CBS: When you repeal this, what are you going to
replace it with?

pointing out. We`re going to take a common sense, step by step approach.

O`DONNELL: Why not then if you like some of the provisions in the
Affordable Care Act, why not work with it rather than repeal the whole
thing? Even Mitt Romney said --

BOEHNER: No, no, this has to be -- this has to be ripped out by its
roots. This is government taking over the entire health insurance

O`DONNELL: So all those people who have pre-existing conditions, you
say we`re going to get rid of this and at some point we`ll deal with it?

BOEHNER: Listen, I`ve already outlined. We believe there`s a better
way to provide access to high quality health insurance in a different way
than we have in Obamacare.


SCHULTZ: Really, a better way? Common sense? That`s a better way?
Come on, Mr. Boehner.

John Boehner has been in charge of the House for almost two years.
There has been no committee meetings about replacing the health care law.
The House has not drafted any replacement legislation protecting the
uninsured in this country. They have not acted because they don`t care.

Congressman Paul Ryan had no answers on ABC.


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: When you do that, will you also
look to preserve any of these programs or does everything do?

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: We will vote to repeal the entire law
on I believe July 11th, and what`s frustrating about this is when Obamacare
was being deliberated, we were offering patient-centered solutions and we
were proposing them now, we`re proposing them now.

STEPHANOPOULOS: To be specific, those provisions that are already in
place now, like closing the donut hole, covering young adults under the age
of 26, not placing lifetime limits on care, those are all going to go in
the House vote? You`re not going to vote to replace them?

RYAN: We`re going to repeal the entire law and then we`re going to
advance patient-centered reforms which address these kinds of issues.


SCHULTZ: They are amazing. See, Ryan keeps talking about patient-
centered solutions. Now, hold it right there. Ask yourself tonight, do
you know what a patient-centered solution is? How about just getting
coverage to start with?

I mean, it really sounds important. It must be something really
good, don`t you think?

Well, actually, it means nothing, folks. You see, in 2009,
Republican pollsters Frank Luntz wrote a report called "The Language of
Health Care." Luntz told Republicans don`t ever say things like private
health care or free market health care. Forget that. Don`t ever say that.

Instead, he told them to say patient-centered health care. It`s

But Republicans say it over and over again to sound like, hey, they
really have solutions here, don`t they?

Democrats don`t need a Frank Luntz poll for this one at all. The
health care law -- let me tell you something, folks -- it is all upside.
When you can put millions of Americans in front of a doctor and have
insurance, you`re going in the right direction. The good is outweighing
the yet-to-be achieved in this country.

You think the Democrats are going to stop right here? No, they`re
going to do more. And that`s what scared the hell out of the Republicans.

Democrats should go home and they should run on this issue. Don`t
run from this fight. Don`t do that.

I asked Tim Ryan today from Ohio, do you want your guy on the
Republican side, your opponent, do you want him to run against health care?
He said, absolutely. He gets it. Ohio gets it.

This is about winning for American families and for American workers
who don`t make enough money to buy insurance. They need the -- Democrats,
they need to stay strong and defend this law, and all of the benefits that
it`s bringing to the American people.

Just keep one thing in mind throughout all of this, this was a real
whammy that was thrown at the Republican Party by the Supreme Court last
week. They really had no clue how to formulate. They had to go back to
old 2009 talking points about patient-centered solutions. It`s almost

They don`t have a plan. And they don`t want a plan. They have spent
generations trying to take down the New Deal.

And now look what`s happened on their watch. More is being added to
help Americans who want it. Where is the country going to go from here?

This is a political question: Do the Republicans really think that
there`s enough Americans out there that don`t like this law that they think
it`s going to be advantageous for them to run against it on the campaign
trail? They got about 120 days to figure it out.

In the meantime, they`re going to go on FOX News and everywhere else
and say patient-centered solutions. Tell me what that is? Tell me what
common sense in health care is? Do you mean to tell me if someone doesn`t
have health care, that`s not common sense?

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: do Republicans care about providing health care
to the uninsured? Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639. You can
always go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results later
on in the show.

Now, we can talk about health care until the cows come home, but the
political element here is now upon us in this election season. For the
next four months, I think it`s going to be a real political football for
the Republicans to reveal their cards on exactly what they`re going to do.
How can they go in front of the American people with generic statements and
expects people to believe they have an answer?

Let`s ask Howard Fineman tonight, NBC News political analyst and
editorial director of "The Huffington Post" Media Group.

Howard, great to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: What are we going to see in the next 120 days here? The
next four months, what`s it going to deliver to the people when it comes to
the debate on health care?

FINEMAN: Well, I`m tempted to say like in the court where you don`t
have the facts on your side, you pound on the table. The Republicans are
going to pound on the table.

What Chris Wallace exposed there in his very good interview on FOX on
Sunday is the fact that Mitch McConnell did not want to say directly that
he doesn`t believe in the idea of universal health care because Chris`
question kind of implied it was a given that you should be for universal
health care -- if you recall the sound bites you just showed -- but Mitch
McConnell wouldn`t cop to that. And I think that`s very revealing.

And I think the basic Republican philosophy here is in not so many
words, but the ideological thrust is going to be: we don`t want to create -
- we don`t agree with the fundamental idea of President Obama`s
legislation, which is essentially to create the idea and to affirm the idea
that everybody in the country is entitled to health care that they can
afford, that won`t bankrupt their family that will allow them to live a
decent live. That`s the sort of essence of the argument.

The Republicans will talk philosophy, and the Democrats, as President
Obama did the other night, will talk specifics.

SCHULTZ: Polls show that the American people are split down the
middle on whether they like the health care law, but the court ruling did
change opinions on the debate. A new poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation
shows 56 percent of Americans think opponents of the law should move on, 51
percent of independents also agree.

Are Republicans aware of this perception? I mean, is this a real
political gamble for them to bad-mouth the health care law for the next
four months?

FINEMAN: Yes, it is, and they`re not quite aware of it. I think, as
you said, they were caught by surprise, I thin. I think they are stuck in
their original philosophical stance. I think they don`t want to commit to
specific ideas for change, as is shown by all of what you showed tonight.

And they`re going to take this vote in the House which is going to
put them in specific opposition once again to individual elements of the
law that are popular. And that people keep repeating, but it`s true: kids
on until 26, no denial for pre-existing conditions, no limit on lifetime
coverage, so on down the line. Those are things that individually are very
popular, that the president and his allies are going to drive relentlessly
one after another after another, especially if the Republicans don`t have
an alternative.

And they`re afraid of commit to one at this point because they`re
kind of blinded by their ideological fury and anger that the president,
with the support of the Supreme Court, has kind of enshrined the idea of
universal health care as an ideal for this country which, of course, it has
been for virtually every industrialized democracy in the world and many
other countries.

He succeeded in pulling that off, ironically with John Roberts`
support last week.

SCHULTZ: Howard Fineman, great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW.
Thanks so much.

FINEMAN: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom
of the screen. Share you thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We love to hear
what you think.

Coming up, Mitt Romney`s campaign adviser, well, you could say, kind
of stepped in it in a big way. He contradicted the big Republican talking
point about the health care law. Richard Wolffe and Joan Walsh join me.

Stay with us. We`re coming right back on THE ED SHOW.


SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney`s spokesman needs to by a bigger etch-a-sketch,
I guess, after his appearance on MSNBC this morning. Richard Wolffe and
Joan Walsh join me for the conversation.

Former insurance executive and current Florida governor, Rick Scott,
is threatening not to implement the new health care law. Coming up, we`ll
show you why.

And a meteorologist in Washington, D.C. is taking heat for his
comments on the connection between this summer`s weather and climate
change. Bill Nye the Science Guy will join me later in the program.

Share you thoughts on Twitter using the #EdShow. We`re coming right


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Republicans have tried to make the best of the Supreme Court ruling
calling the individual mandate a tax. It`s pretty much a Republican
chorus, isn`t it?


MCCONNELL: It is a tax.


GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: They call it what it was, a huge
tax increase.

BOEHNER: It`s now a tax since the court said it was a tax.



SCHULTZ: Huge tax, we throw in Steve Doocy, just for kicks.

So, it`s a tax, according to Republicans. But wait a minute, here`s
Mitt Romney`s campaign adviser, Eric Fehrnstrom.


ERIC FEHRNSTROM, ROMNEY CAMPAIGN: The mandate was not a tax.


SCHULTZ: I`m sorry, would you please repeat that?


FEHRNSTROM: The mandate was not a tax. The mandate was not a tax.
The mandate was not a tax.


SCHULTZ: Oops. In other words, Mitt Romney and his people will
twist themselves into knots over this because if they say it`s a tax, then
Romney care`s individual mandate was also a tax. That`s a big problem.

This is kind of a problem Rick Santorum was talking about when he
said that Romney would be the worst candidate to go against President


RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: It would be probably the
worst candidate for us to nominate to go after Barack Obama on gas prices
and on government takeover in health care. Heck, he was -- he created the
blueprint for the government take over of health care that President Obama


SCHULTZ: Time-out, did he say gas prices? Where are they? We`ll do
that story tomorrow heading into Fourth of July.

By the way, the penalty for not buying insurance affects less than 1
percent of the population. Less than 1 percent of the population has
become one of their big talking points. Even if you count it as a tax and
combine it with the taxes in the Affordable Care Act, this is what you get.

Look carefully at the super-small blue bar at the bottom of your
screen. That`s the tax increase from the Affordable Care Act. The big
blue bar at the top of the screen is -- well, that`s Old Ronny, that`s
Ronald Reagan`s tax increase, son of a gun.

The next one is President George H.W. Bush`s tax increase, and the
next one is President Bill Clinton`s tax increase.

Gosh, they`re all much larger than any tax increase than President
Obama`s health care bill, don`t you think?

Let`s turn to MSNBC political analyst Richard Wolffe and Joan Walsh,
editor at large at

Well, Mr. Fehrnstrom, he created a problem today for the Romney camp
-- damage assessment. Let`s go.

Joan, how much damage did Fehrnstrom do today?

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: Well, I think the damage was being done over
the weekend when journalists were taking clips of Mitt Romney saying it`s a
penalty, it`s not a tax about Massachusetts, Ed.

And the one thing we should add to the montage of people calling it a
tax is Mitt Romney. He came out of the gate on Thursday saying it was a
tax increase. He sent his advisers out to talk to reporters and they said,
well, we`ve got a brand new issue with the most gigantic tax increase in

So, it was the Romney team that started it or went along with Sarah
Palin, I should say. And they were happy to talk about it like this for 24
hours and then someone was like, uh-oh!

It reminds me of that old school yard saying, I`m rubber and you`re
glue. What we`re finding on the issue of health care is that President
Obama is rubber and Mitt Romney is glue.


WALSH: Anything that is said about Obamacare could be said about
Romneycare and it sticks to him. They`re in a world of pain today.

SCHULTZ: Ironically, Mr. Murdoch says that Mitt Romney has to get
new people around him.

Richard, is this the time that the Romney camp might want to think
about throwing Fehrnstrom under the bus and moving forward?

to be very hard. Fehrnstrom is the closest of all of the advisers there.
You know, you got to have a shake up in the campaigns. I think both
campaigns are going to have strategic maneuvering, but you don`t want to
look like you`re panicking.

The real problem here isn`t Eric Fehrnstrom, it`s not the truth`s
fault that he spoke the way he did. The problem is they made a strategic
choice about health care. They could have said their record in
Massachusetts was either a great success, the greatest achievement Mitt
Romney made as Massachusetts governor, or they could have said we were
completely wrong about it. And it was a disaster, we were wrong on the
policy, it will never work.

Instead, they tried to do both. They tried to say it was great in
Massachusetts but terrible for anyone else. And when you twist yourself
into a pretzel like this over and over again, eventually, the contortions
are going to hurt.

SCHULTZ: It`s interesting. The Romney campaign spokesman said we
will no longer allow the mainstream media to define the political realities
in America. The campaign said it will use center right media like Drudge,
but eventually, they have to answer questions and this happens to be it,
doesn`t it? What do you think, Joan?

WALSH: Well, yes. I mean -- and Richard`s right. They put
themselves in this box, you know? You could be proud of Romneycare if you
were a different Mitt Romney and you could tout it as something that worked
in your state, and say what was good about it, what you learned, whatever.

He`s in the Mittness protection program. He was not governor of
Massachusetts, as far I can tell. He did nothing. He accomplished
nothing, and he`s run away from it. So, now he`s stuck with it.

And I don`t think cutting off -- I agree with Richard, I don`t think
getting rid of Fehrnstrom is likely because of the relationship. But
really, he told the truth. It is the truth.

The governor has argued that, a penalty is not a tax. They really
stuck to that.

SCHULTZ: So, Republicans continue to run around calling it a tax,

WOLFFE: Yes, because they have nowhere else to go.



WOLFFE: Look, Mitch McConnell tried to say there were no
conservatives who support this thing, until this conservative called John
Roberts said it was OK that`s why you`re seeing the polls move.

They`ve got a bunch of talking points. The reality isn`t defined by
the media. The reality is defined by reality. You know?

The reality is that a lot of conservatives think this health care
approach was just fine and among those people is the guy who was their
nominee. So, they can talk around it as much as they like. The reality is
still right there. This is Mitt Romney`s plan.

SCHULTZ: Now, according to "The Washington Post," the Romney family
vacation is mandatory. He really does like mandates. Let`s take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the knowledge you have been given, you are
now on the inside of what I like to call the Burns family circle of trust.


SCHULTZ: Ooh, is there a Romney circle of trust there in the family?

Just a little joke -- but should Romney be trying to have a few
campaign strategy meetings during his family vacation? I mean, mandated --
I mean, he`s actually mandating his kids to show up. How many parents do
that? Joan?

WALSH: I hope I never have to. I hope my son continues to want to
spend time with me, but you never know, Ed. Parenting is hard work. Who

SCHULTZ: Richard, thanks. Richard Wolffe, and Joan Walsh -- thanks
so much for joining us tonight.

Coming up, they`re turning down millions of dollars. They`re denying
people health care, and you know what? They seem to be proud of it,
wearing it as a badge of honor. We`ll talk about the politics of saying
no. That`s coming up.

And the Tea Party, uh-oh, according to Glenn Beck, they`re brewing up
fresh rallies on the Fourth of July to protest the president`s health care
law. Our panel will weigh it what it means for November. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: And thanks for watching THE ED SHOW/

The push back against historic health care reform, you know, it
really has no boundaries. They`re going to do anything. Republican
governors are tripping all over one another trying to deny affordable
health care to people in their states.


SCOTT: We`re not going to implement Obamacare in Florida. We`re not
going to expand Medicaid because we`re going to do the right thing.


SCHUTLZ: They`re going to do the right thing. They`re just going to
ignore who needs help.

Florida Governor Rick Scott is saying no to expanding Medicaid. The
government will pick up, what is this, 100 percent of the tab for three
years? After that, Florida would pay a maximum of 10 percent of the cost?

But Rick Scott is saying no to hundreds of millions of dollars in
federal aid to help a heck of a lot of people. And you know what? He`s
not alone. Rick Scott is one of seven governors who could refuse
affordable care.

If you live in Iowa, South Carolina, Missouri, Wisconsin, Louisiana,
or Kansas, you might be out of luck.

Every governor has the option to say no. It`s legal. The question
is: is it smart? In 1972 -- have we been down this road before? Yes,
1972, every state in the Union started participating in Medicaid except for
Arizona. Arizona hospitals struggled to provide charity care. After ten
years, they surrendered. Arizona gave in and joined the rest of the nation.
Almost two million people were enrolled in Medicaid in Arizona by 2010.

Florida Governor Rick Scott, well, he wants to do the same thing Arizona
did back in 1972, but he claims he really cares about providing health care
for the poor.


GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: We care about having a health care safety
net for the vulnerable Floridians, but this is an expansion that just
doesn`t make any sense.


SCHULTZ: Right now, Florida Medicaid does not cover people who don`t have
children. And it only covers parents who earn less than $6,400 a year.
States like Florida are dealing with a health care disaster. President
Obama is doing what? He is offering disaster relief when it comes to
health care. And a handful of governors seem to be playing politics
instead of protecting the people.

Let`s bring in E.J. Dionne, MSNBC contributor, "Washington Post" columnist,
and author of the book "Our Divided Political Heart." Don`t we have one on
this issue?

E.J. Dionne, thank you for joining us tonight.

What are the governors doing? Are they trying to build strength in numbers
so to give enough narrative to make people to think that they`re doing the
right thing? What do you think?

E.J. DIONNE, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I don`t know what they`re
doing. They claim to be saving their states money down the road. What is
terribly wrong is these expansions of health coverage are aimed at working
people who don`t make a lot of money. And what we hear all the time is,
what we really have to give people incentives. For work, we have to honor
people who work. And yet this is walking away from health care for people
who work.

So, it is really quite outrageous. And you have other governors who have
been walking away from setting up the exchanges, which is also outrageous,
and walking away from core conservative ideal that is created better
marketplace. I think a lot of it is propaganda around Obamacare and not a
whole lot to do with public policy.

SCHULTZ: How do they politically make the calculation this is the right
thing to do? That they will win favor with the majority of voters by
denying Americans? They talk as if these folks, well, they don`t pay any
federal tax. They`re not in the system. You know, it`s amazing. What is
the political measurement h here?

DIONNE: Yes. You know, Ed, that`s one of my pet peeves, the argument that
poor people don`t pay taxes. They pay a lot of their income in sales
taxes. A lot of them pay property tax directly or indirectly through their
rent. Poor people pay a lot of income taxes.

But I think their view is the folks they`re going to deny coverage to for
the most part are not part of the constituency that elects them. So, they
don`t have to worry there. And there are also talk about big numbers down
the road when they have to pay the 10 percent.

But they`re going to be in a lot of trouble with a very important group in
their states. And that`s the people who run hospitals. Because people who
run hospitals want them to take this Medicaid because they don`t want to
have to treat people and not get reimbursed because hospitals have to treat
people whether they have insurance or not. So, I think they`re going to
get a lot of grief from a lot of local hospitals around their state.

SCHULTZ: I mean, they are banking on the news consumption of the novice
news consumers, and the question is, do the people get it?

DIONNE: You know, I think their view of this is that the only people who
care about this are the two bases of each party.


DIONNE: You know, liberal Democrats, conservative Republicans, and so the
conservatives will cheer them for doing this. But I think they forget
about a lot of doctors and nurses and people in those local hospitals who
are going to look at this, they may not be particularly political, but this
won`t make any sense to them.

SCHULTZ: All right. E.J. Dionne, always good to have you here on "the Ed
Show." Thanks a lot.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the Ed Show." Stay
with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be an issue, a big issue, in the fall election.

SCHULTZ: Can the tea party rise again and take down Obamacare? The big
panel weighs in next.

The man who owns FOX News is picking a fight with Tom Cruise and

Breaking TomKat/Rupert Murdoch news ahead.

And Colorado is still in flames as global warming skeptics put their heads
in the stand.

Bill Nye, the science guy is here to tell us what is happening out west.




GLENN BECK, TEA PARTY MASTERMIND: Freedom will not be extinguished in my
lifetime, not under my watch. I`ll do everything I can and I`ll g down

SCHULTZ: Why didn`t I think of that? Welcome back.

That was tea party mastermind Glenn Beck throwing red meat to his followers
for the fourth of July barbecue. I`m sure everybody is going to be talking
about the takeover of America after the Supreme Court`s health care ruling
last week.

Tea Partiers are dusting off the tri-corner hats and tea bags. They`re
planning rallies, seriously in small towns around the country this
Independence Day to protest the president`s health care law.

Tea party groups hope to gather in are just the kickoff to a long season of
rallies. A freedom works organizer told talking points memo that members
should go to their town squares on July 4th and recruit these people from
these parades, from the gatherings, and build a machine.

What kind of machine? Well, a group in Michigan has started their rally.
Their machine, a tea party organization, turned their protest into a
barbecue in the town of, really, hell, Michigan. They took turned soaking
the affordable care act in lighter fluid and then burned all 2700 pages of

The tea party, you have to wonder, they know a few things about book
burning? I don`t know, just asking.

All right. Let`s turn to our panel tonight. For more, let`s go to
Democratic strategist Keith Boykin, S.E. Cupp, who is the co-host of "the
Cycle," new program here on MSNBC, 3:00 in the afternoon, and also Errol
Louis, host of "New York One, inside City Hall." There`s a lot inside city
hall of late.

Great to have all of you here tonight.

All right. S.E., I`ll go to you first. What is this healthcare law going
to do for the tea party? I mean, is this the steroid, is this the energy
that they were looking for to get back after it?

S.E. CUPP, MSNBC CO-HOST, THE CYCLE: I think it is for a small -- I don`t
want to say fringe, but a small population among the right wing
conservatives. I think for most Republicans, they`re going to pivot off
education just as quickly as Mitt Romney is, and they`re going to want the
election to be more about the economy and jobs.

But I think certainly, for a certain group of conservatives, the tea party
conservatives among them, they`re absolutely motivated by this and will
probably make this a single issue event that will carry them through the

I don`t think it`s going to be enough, you know, to give Mitt Romney any
kind of sweeping majority in November, but I think it does represent a
certain fraction of the conservative base.

SCHULTZ: Will it help Romney?

KEITH BOYKIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it`s going to hurt because
this is exactly what Mitt Romney doesn`t want. These people do what they
did a couple years ago and create all this nonsense at the town hall
meetings with members of Congress in August. They go and try to do that.

I think what is going to happen is the American people are going to see
that and say what is going on? This is not the party I thought I could
possibly sign up with.

CUPP: How is it going to hurt them in 2012?

BOYKIN: It`s a total different thing in a presidential election. You`re
trying to get independent voters as opposed to reach your base to people.
I think it`s going to be very difficult for the Republicans to operate that
way and it`s not going to increase enthusiasm among the middle. The base.

different, the worst case scenario is they get a larger majority in the
house and take back the Senate, that`s a good plan b, right?

BOYKIN: Well, no. If you look at a poll we just came out today from
another network, the enthusiasm for the tea party opponents about this
election is actually higher than it is for tea party supporters. So
there`s no guarantee this will translate into a higher turnout in terms of
voters, elections for the Republicans.

SCHULTZ: If you`re advising a campaign, would you tell your candidate, go
out there and campaign against health care? Would you do that?

CUPP: If I`m advising Mitt Romney?

SCHULTZ: OK. Mitt Romney or any Republican? I mean, would you tell the
Republicans to go out and say, you got to campaign against health care?

CUPP: No, I would tell congressional members, Mitt Romney to pivot off
health care as fast as possible. That most people in this country care
about the economy and jobs. But I would never say that getting the tea
party base of the party is going to hurt you. That absolutely makes no

LOUIS: I would tell people to find every district where it looks like
health care, health win majorities, help win victories for Republican in
2010, put a laser on those congressional districts.

SCHULTZ: Is this a tough sell for Republicans to go there and tell people
in their backyard, sorry, got to take this away from you even though the
country has passed it?

BOYKIN: It is hard. Here`s the reason why. Health care reform has been
approved and validated by all three branches of government. The tea party
has been repudiated and rebuked by all three branches of government, the

Barack Obama won 67 million votes when people knew he was going to do
health care reform. The legislature that congress passed this bill, and
then you have the judicial branch uphold and constitutional. The American
people are going to move on.

CUPP: The only institution who hasn`t given it is the American people.
They did not like the bill in its entirety. Sorry, voters.

BOYKIN: And the Congress approved it. That`s what democracy is all about.

LOUIS: After that entire process, after the Supreme Court ruled, some
prominent people said I don`t care what the court says, it`s

SCHULTZ: This doesn`t come as a shock to somebody in the country. The
president was clear when he was campaigning, he said I`m going to do health
care reform. I mean, this wasn`t blindsiding anybody. How can you say the
people don`t want it?

CUPP: This isn`t my opinion. This is polling. This is polling that
suggests that 67 percent of the American people either want the mandate
overthrown or parts of this bill repealed.

SCHULTZ: There`s a lot more than the mandate.

CUPP: I said either/or. This bill is not popular.

SCHULTZ: Mitch McConnell not answering what he`s going to do to the 30
million people not to get them covered.

CUPP: He worked very hard not to answer. It was a incredible performance.

LOUIS: Look. The reality is, on so many things like the stimulus, the
bailout, and certainly health care, there are a lot of people who already
have coverage. They`re fine, their family is fine. Their neighbors, their
co-workers are fine.

SCHULTZ: And the president said they could keep their health care.

LOUIS: But if somebody comes to them and said it`s going to cost you to
cover somebody who didn`t have enough responsibility to buy some insurance,
there are some people, and this is what the tea party was based on, who are
saying I don`t want to do it.

SCHULTZ: But that`s going to affect less than one percent of the people on
this country.

CUPP: Look. Republicans have a plan. I think Mitt Romney needs to
articulate his more. It looks a lot like Jim DeMint`s in 2009 plan which
has been good staff in it and staff that Democrats and Republican have
agreed to. It discusses the uninsured, it discussed Medicaid, it discussed
tax deductions.

SCHULTZ: Then why didn`t they talk about it yesterday?

CUPP: It`s a great question.


BOYKIN: They don`t have a plan yet. You know this. You said this
earlier, they have never been serious about health care reform. And when
President Obama takes Republican ideas and puts them into a bill and
Republicans say they are opposed to their own ideas, it shows you it was
never about reform, it was always about politics. And the reason why the
American people are upset about the bill in part is because he spent a
quarter of a billion dollars on the opposition to make people hate this
bill with misinformation and disinformation and distortion.

Once you have some leveling off and people start to see the impact of it,
this will be an extremely popular bill and that`s what the Republicans are
afraid of.

CUPP: Look. I mean, the spin has been near constant since Obamacare came
out. First, they`ll like it once x happens, that they`ll like it once y
happens. Finally, the Supreme Court, the highest ruler on the land, has
given its acceptance and they don`t like it. When are we going to like the

SCHULTZ: You think the $250 million spent against it, telling American
people it was a lousy bill, you think it had an effect?

CUPP: I know that the general argument is that the American people--


CUPP: But I think they`re pretty smart. I think they go home, they look
at their wallets, their bank accounts, they have conversations around their
kitchen counter and look at it.

SCHULTZ: Why would Republicans campaign against it? If it`s such a bad
law, why don`t they go home and campaign against it? I mean think they
know they`re on the wrong side of history.

CUPP: I think they want to stop talking about it and they want to talk
about the economy.

SCHULTZ: OK. All right,

Keith Boykin, S.E. Cupp, thanks. And Errol Louis, always a pleasure to
have all of you here. Thank you.

The TomKat breakup, I`m heartbroken.


SCHULTZ: Rupert Murdoch is in a frenzy. Murdoch is going after
scientology and tweeting like a man with his pants on fire. Stay tuned.
We are coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Up next, Rupert Murdoch weighs in on the divorce of Tom Cruise
and Katie Holmes and the church of kind scientology.

In the big finish tonight, a D.C. meteorologist is in trouble for telling
the truth for this weekend`s freakish weather. Bill Nye, the science guy,
weighs in.

And don`t forget to listen to my radio show, Sirius XM radio channel 127,
Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00. Follow me on twitter @edshow and like
"the Ed Show" on facebook.

I would appreciate that. Thanks. We are coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show."

Well, it looks like the breakup of TomKat has got the attention New Corp
CEO, Rupert Murdoch. I guess there is no better distraction for Murdoch
than news of Katie Holmes filing for divorce against Tom Cruise and asking
for sole custody of their daughter, Suri.

Murdoch decided gave his two sense worth, scientologist, back in news, he
tweeted. Very weird cult but big, big money involved with Tom Cruise
either number two or three in hierarchy. He got that off his chest, but he
wasn`t done.

Watch Katie Holmes and Scientology story develop, he tweeted again.
Something creepy, maybe even evil, about these people. Murdoch got some
push back via tweeters, so he responded, scientology tweets hundreds of
attacks. Expects they will increase and get worse and maybe threatening.
Still stick to my story.

Maybe Murdoch was worried after the "New York Post" reported Katie Holmes
thinks Scientologists are following her every move. The post said, the
white Cadillac escalate was parked outside of the apartment all day taking
pictures of people outside of the building.

Of course, it`s just as likely the people in the SUV were paparazzi, not
Scientologists. So, Rupert, relax, will you?

Tom Cruise, by the way, is in Iceland filming a movie. Tomorrow, he is 50
years old.

Tonight, I asked in a survey, do Republicans care about providing health
care to the uninsured? I got a high number, nine percent of you said yes,
91 percent of you said no.

Coming up, a meteorologist said the heat wave is a sign of global warming.
Now he`s under attack. We`ll sort the facts out next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, "The Big Finish." People are cleaning up
tonight after a deadly line of thunderstorms swept through six states
yesterday. Twenty two people were killed, almost two million households
from North Carolina to New Jersey still don`t have electricity.

The heat is making the situation even worse. Crews are working extended
shifts in the hot, muggy weather. Temperatures are about ten degrees above
average from the upper Midwest through the southeastern portion of the
United States.

The heat is still fueling eight separate fires in Colorado. The high
today, 99 degrees. They`re hoping for rain on Friday. These high
temperatures, well, they`re not normal. Look at this map. It was 109
degrees in Nashville this weekend. That`s hotter than it`s been since we
started keeping records right after the civil war. It`s hot enough to
buckle the road in Fargo, North Dakota. Temperatures have topped 100
degrees for several days in a row.

The chief meteorologist that the NBC television station in Washington, D.C.
said global warming is causing this heat wave.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we did not have global warming, we wouldn`t see
this. I really believe that. I really think this is because maybe we
would have seen 101, maybe we would have seen 102, but not 104. We have
set all-time records all across the entire portion of the country. Are we
in an unusual pattern. Yes, does it happen? Yes, it does. Is this an
unusual pattern to see temperatures this high when you are talking about
all time record heat? It`s fairly unusual.


SCHULTZ: OK. He`s a believer in global warming, although some
conservative bloggers are calling him a nut case and insisting global
warming is a myth.

The discussion tonight Bill Nye, executive director of the Planetary
Society, the science guy.

Dr. Nye, good to have you with us tonight. Appreciate your time.

This is fueling the conversation we haven`t had a whole lot of in the media
as of late. Who`s right, who`s wrong? Your thoughts?

in climate change. Not because it`s my opinion, it`s the opinion of a lot
of professional people. And furthermore, it`s reasonable to me that the
fires in Colorado which is the dehydrating of the forest and the extreme
temperatures across North America are consistent with all of the models of
climate change.

In Washington, D.C. on Friday, there was a 30 degree Fahrenheit drop in
temperature in less than a half hour. And this is evidence of extreme
weather. This is a big storm. This is a storm that knocked out the power
in the world`s most influential city. And there`s nothing to do about it.
This is bigger than we are.

So this is a chance for us all to pull together and address climate change,
to all get together and work to make our energy distribution systems more

SCHULTZ: What do you say to the critics? That this is just one of those
years, you know, and why are people so hard to convince sometimes?

NYE: Well, why they`re hard to convince is always troubling to us in
science education. But let`s keep in mind factually, of the last 17 years,
16 of those have been the hottest of the last 17. 1996 is the one
exception, it`s a big El Nino.

So, the last 17 years have been the hottest, the last 16 years have been
the hottest ever. And so this is consistent with models of climate change.
The big hurricanes are consistent with models of climate change. The big
storms, the dehydration of the forest in Colorado and forest fires are
consistent with models of climate change.

You know, you can say since no one event is provable, that dismisses the
whole thing, but it`s not very good science. It`s not very good.

SCHULTZ: If you were in a position of power to actually do something, what
would you do? What can we do?

NYE: Well, I would -- the old saying is we would do everything all at
once. This is to say we would make the distribution grid much more
efficient. You hear the saying smart grid. We would invest in research
for better electrical storage systems, batteries, extraordinary ways to
store energy. For later use in electricity.. And invest in wind and solar

Now, I`m open minded to the idea of nuclear power. But right now, it`s so
dangerous that I don`t think our technology is up to it. Instead, we would
invest in these more conventional energy sources. This would be a national
effort and we would lead the world in these new technologies and people
would embrace it and the United States, and I was born here. I`m a
patriot, the United States would be a world leader in the stuff rather than
watching everybody else not only have better quality of life but also have
a better economy. The people who are going to get rich are going to do it
elsewhere instead of here.

SCHULTZ: Bill Nye, thank you for your time. A lot to talk about here, no
question about it. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

NYE: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: That`s "the Ed Show." I`m Ed Schultz.

Ezra Klein is filling in for Rachel Maddow.


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