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The Ed Show for Tuesday, July 3, 2012

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Guests: Bart Chilton, Bob Shrum, Tammy Duckworth, Ari Melber, Susan Del
Percio, Joy Reid, Karen Finney

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE
ED SHOW from New York.

Gas prices -- they are falling and Republicans are scrambling to find
a new reason to pin the blame on President Obama. That`s right. Tonight,
I`m taking the hot air coming out of the right wing gas bags.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


perspective, do you think the United States going into reelection wants the
gas prices to go up higher? I want the gas prices lower because they hurt

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Gas prices are plummeting just before the
Fourth of July. And the right wing talking point has been blown to bits.

ERIC BOLLING, FOX NEWS: That`s almost double under this president.
Did you anyone see that coming?

LOU DOBBS, FBN HOST: Gasoline prices nearly doubling since President
Obama took office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it enough to derail his return to the


SCHULTZ: CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton will join me with the real
reason prices are so low. And Democratic strategist Bob Shrum joins me
with the politics.

Congressman Joe Walsh says Iraq war veteran Tammy Duckworth is not a
real hero.

REP. JOE WALSH (R), ILLINOIS: That`s all she talks about. Our true
heroes, the men and women who served us, that`s the last thing in the world
they talk about.

SCHULTZ: She will fire back here tonight.

A legend passes away. We`ll look back at the life of Andy Griffith.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us, folks. Thanks for watching.

Millions of Americans are going to be traveling over the next few
days and we`re going to be buying a lot of gas as Americans. Republicans,
you see, they wanted to celebrate the Fourth of July by hammering President
Obama over high gas prices. You know that failed energy policy, well, it
isn`t working out the way they hoped.

Today, the national average for a gallon of gasoline is $3.33. It`s
the lowest price per gallon since last December.

Over the last three months, gas prices have fallen from a national
high of $3.92 back in April. In some southern states in this country, the
average cost is already below $3 a gallon. All of a sudden, what`s that
noise? I can`t hear it.

It`s because the Republicans are all of a sudden quiet about energy
policy. You see, they were making all kinds of noise about high gas prices
back in the spring -- leaders of Congress, the presidential candidates,
and, of course, the right-wing media all over this president, saying that
he`s the problem, putting the blame on President Obama.


been president, the cost of gasoline has doubled. In fact, this is in part
his fault.

especially feeling the impact of rising gas prices, which have doubled
under President Obama.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, FOX NEWS: Why is nobody talking about this? I
have been wondering.

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS: It`s the headline on Drudge right now.

CARLSON: I know, but gas prices have been incredibly high for the
last couple of years.

BOLLING: This gas price will take down the presidency.


SCHULTZ: We`re going to take down the president.

Well, it didn`t stop there. Not only were they blaming President
Obama for high gas prices. They said the president himself, himself, was
driving up the prices on purpose.


president`s policies are designed and intended to drive up energy prices.

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: The Obama administration wants the price of
oil to go up as high as possible so Americans demand alternative energy,
electric cars, things like that.

administration`s policy has been to drive up the cost of energy so
Americans would use less of it.


SCHULTZ: President Obama was even asked about this conspiracy during
a live news conference in March.


ED HENRY, FOX NEWS: Your critics will say on Capitol Hill that you
want gas prices to go higher because you have said before that will wean
the American people off fossil fuels onto renewable fuels. How do you
respond to that?

OBAMA: Ed, just from a political perspective, do you think the
president of the United States going into election wants gas prices to go
up higher? Is that -- is there anyone here who thinks that makes sense?


SCHULTZ: No, it doesn`t make any sense at all. But right wingers
still repeated it as long as gas prices were high. If these gas bags paid
any attention at all to the actual economic reports, they would have known
how far off-base they actually were.

In the beginning of May, economists were reporting gas prices had
peaked at $128 a barrel. The trend was already moving in the other
direction. But, of course, Republicans continued to blame the president
for having sinister motivations.

Remember, the Keystone Pipeline? Son of a gun, we can`t get low
prices unless we have the Keystone Pipeline. For weeks, I mean weeks,
members of Congress were hammering on this. The conservative media was all
over it, said the president could lower gas prices if he would just approve
the Keystone Pipeline.

They also took the opportunity to resurrect the "drill, baby, drill"
catch phrase. You know what? Here we are five months later. There is no
Keystone Pipeline. There probably will be, but it`s not there now,
obviously. And we didn`t add any oil rigs to our record number of oil rigs
in this country, and gas prices, well, they`re still coming down.

Republicans, they don`t know what to do with this reality. They
don`t have anything to say right now. In fact, some of them are now trying
to blame President Obama for gas prices being too low.


STEVE MOORE, WALL STREET JOURNAL: That`s the real danger point that
maybe this economy is slowing down so much. People are going to pay less
for gas, but they may not have jobs.


SCHULTZ: Fortunately, there was one Republican willing to tell the
truth about gas prices and the presidency. To be fair, you have to go back
to 2008 when George W. Bush was the president of the United States in order
to find one, but here it is.


O`REILLY: Next time you hear politicians say he or she will bring
down oil prices, understand it`s complete BS. If Americans want lower
prices, cut back. Sell those SUVs, ride a bike when you can. If every one
of us bought 10 percent less gasoline, prices would fall fast.


SCHULTZ: Well, happy Fourth of July, Republicans. Next time you
want to use gas prices as a political tool, make sure you listen to your
friend Bill O`Reilly because he`s always looking out for you.

Get your cell phones out. Want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: Will Republicans ever stop using gas prices as a
political ploy? Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639. You can always
go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results later in the

I`m joined tonight by a man who has answered, Bart Chilton,
commissioner of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.

Bart, great to have you with us tonight.

We have been down this road, but I just kind of like to remind them
how this all works.

Explain the main reason gas prices have dropped 60 cents in the last
three months. What`s going on?

BART CHILTON, CFTC COMMISSIONER: Hey, Ed. We have ample supply and
not a lot of demand. And that`s what`s been the case. It happens to have
also been the case that we had ample supply and not much demand when prices
were high.

And so, there really is in fairness on both sides, not a lot a
president can do either way on these things. But what the president has
done, President Obama has done, is he saw that these wild gyrations in
prices needed to be controlled, and as part of Dodd-Frank, the big
financial reform law, he insisted that we impose limits on how much a
speculator can control in markets.

But guess what? The banksters are stopping us, trying to stop us
from implementing that rule. I don`t think they`re going to succeed. And
I think we`re going to have the limits in place in September.

SCHULTZ: OK. So, the commodities speculation task force, does it
have any impact on gas prices? This task force they`re putting together?

CHILTON: Well, there`s a lot that`s been done, absolutely --
including the task force work. But where we are right now is we have
passed a regulation that is ready to go into affect except we`ve got one
more little thing to do -- hopefully, we`re going to do it next week.

And as I say, the bankers are taking us to court to try to stop it
from being implemented. You would think the bankers got some other things
going on in the economy, but they`re trying to stop us from putting in
these very reasonable limits, Ed. It just says you can`t hold more than 10
percent of a market.

And so we need those limits, we need them soon, and I hopefully we`re
going to go to get them in September.

SCHULTZ: Could we see a spike again due to the tensions with Iran in
the Middle East?

CHILTON: Yes, you absolutely can. I mean, you know, prices, as you
noted in the opening of the program, are low, but they`ve actually gone up
13 percent in the last three trading days. So, it`s the volatility that`s
so crazy.

The highest prices we ever had for crude oil was actually in July of
2008. It wasn`t this president, and I`m not blaming President Bush,
certainly. But that`s when the highest prices were. It`s this volatility
that consumers demand should be somewhat reasonable. You don`t go on these
big swings.

Gas prices impact families. They impact our businesses, nationwide.
They impact our global competitiveness. We need to control them insure
that they are someplace reasonable. That the prices develop -- we call it
"price discovery" -- in a reasonable way, that`s good for consumers and
good for our economy.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Commissioner Bart Chilton, good to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

Now, let`s turn to Democratic strategist Bob Shrum.

Bob, good to have you with us. Hope you have a great Fourth coming


SCHULTZ: You, too, Commissioner. Festive time of year where we
barbecue. I`ll talk about that later.

But I got to stay you on -- we`re all driving to barbecues, I guess,
this week, tomorrow and this weekend.

Did the Republicans play this wrong? I mean, I played the litany of
sound bites there about how they were all blaming President Obama. How
does it play now?

SHRUM: Well, look, they don`t care. I mean, they`ll go out there,
they`ll tell a lie. The president is responsible for these gas prices.
When the gas prices come down, they`ll switch to another lie.

I think Donald Trump today said, well, you know, the explanation is
that the president has some kind of secret plan with Saudi Arabia to lower
prices until the election.

Now, he`s out of his mind assuming there is a mind under his toupee,
but he`s symptomatic of what you have talked about earlier, of a party that
is riven with conspiracy, everything is a conspiracy. The health care case
is a conspiracy. John Roberts was in on it. Now the Saudis have some
secret sinister deal.

Look, at the end of the day, Mitt Romney isn`t going to talk about
gas prices right now because there isn`t much fuel in the tank for him.

SCHULTZ: But when he had the opportunity to do it, he did it on the
campaign trail.

SHRUM: But that`s because he`s opportunistic. He will take up any
issue, whether or not it`s true.

Look, this is a guy who back in the primaries blundered in terms of
his own constituency at one point and said, you know, if we can`t cut
spending too fast because if we cut spending too fast, we`d really hurt the
economy. And he had to skin back the newt day and step away from that.\

So, what I`m saying is there`s no accountability here.


SHRUM: Bill O`Reilly can say one thing in 2008, the exact opposite
in 2012. And except on this show and a few other places, nobody is looking
and saying, where is the consistency?

SCHULTZ: All right.

SHRUM: They assume the voters have no memory. I think this is going
to help the president because people are going to find that they can go
out, they can travel around, they can have a summer vacation and it can be
a lot more reasonable.

SCHULTZ: Now, speaking of gas, here is an ad by an environmental
advocacy group promoting gas mileage standards. It`s a dandy. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not stopping until we need gas.

ANNOUNCER: Another good news, America`s proposed new fuel efficiency
standards will double gas mileage, and that means half the stops for gas.
Half the stops for gas. Half the stops for gas.


SCHULTZ: Is the dog`s story really sticking to Mitt Romney? I was
visiting with Lizz Winstead today. She`s on a 40-city tour, on her book
tour, and she talked about Mitt Romney and the dog on top of the car and
she said that 30 percent of the people didn`t know about it, but 70 percent
of the people at every one of these stops tell the story, tell the story,
they love this story. And now this ad is out there, it still has legs. No
pun intended.

SHRUM: Oh, listen, it`s classic water cooler conversation. Who
knows the 59 points of Romney`s economic program? I don`t think he does
and they don`t add up. But when you hear the story about the dog strapped
to the roof of the car, headed to Canada, and Romney, of course, didn`t
anticipate that would have some consequences that he would have to deal
with the host, you hear that story, you can`t wait to tell your friends.

So, yes, it sticks to him, and Gale Collins hopes in the "New York
Times" because every single week almost, she writes about it.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, great to have you with us. Have a great Fourth.
Thanks so much.

SHRUM: And a great Fourth to you.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

SHRUM: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of
the screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We`re always looking
for your comments.

Coming up, this is what global warming looks like. Find out what
Republicans are saying now to deny the scientist facts.

We`re coming right back on THE ED SHOW.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, Oklahoma Senator Inhofe claims mentioning
climate change as a reason for this summer`s intention weather is a scare
tactic. Eugene Robinson of "The Washington Post" weighs in next.

Congressman Joe Walsh attacks his opponent for discussing her
military service. Lieutenant Colonel Tammy Duckworth is here to respond

And later, you know, if you`re trying to avoid fireworks between you
and your conservative relatives at tomorrow`s barbecue -- well, I have some
tips on just what you can tell Uncle Fred. Seems like everybody has an
Uncle Fred that screws up the health care law. You won`t want to miss it.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

It`s getting harder and harder for Republicans to pretend global
warming isn`t real. The fact is we are in the grip of the hottest summer
on record.

Here`s another fact. This heat wave fueled the storm that hammered
seven states this weekend, 22 people have died. More than a million
families in seven states will not have power tomorrow on the Fourth of

Meteorologists from NASA and to the Weather Channel think Sunday`s
storm was unusually powerful. It spawned hurricane force winds in North
Carolina. Storms like this pop up every summer, but this one was huge.

And this is why. Meteorologists say the heat wave made the storm
much more powerful. We broke 40,000 daily heat records so far this year.
That`s twice as many as last year.

Folks, it`s getter hotter. People who deny global warming said it`s
getting hot every summer.

Well, Colorado has never seen fires like this -- 10,000 firefighters
will spend July 4th beating back the flames in 90-degree heat.

Meteorologists and climate experts say we`re seeing the effects of
global warming right now. But Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma said
scientists, they`re just playing politics. He says, "It was only a matter
of time before someone came out and wanted, for political gain, to link
global warming to recent events. These scare tactics have always backfired
and they will this time." Inhofe thinks it`s two extensive to address the


SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: You realize I was on your side of
the issue when I was chairing the committee. And I first heard about this.
I I thought it must be true until I found out what it cost.


SCHULTZ: It`s all about the money, isn`t it?

Inhofe and people like him are in charge of the environmental policy
right now in this country, the only way for you to address global warming
is to vote him out and the rest of the guys that are in denial.

Let`s turn to Eugene Robinson, MSNBC political analyst, associate
editor and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for "The Washington Post".

Eugene, great to have you with us. You`ve done some great work about
this, wrote about it today. Is this what climate change looks like?

climate change looks like. Welcome to the rest of our lives. This is what
it`s going to be like.

One of the predictions of the scientists and their predictions, by
the way, across the board have been conservative today rather than
outlandish. One of the predictions is not only does it get warmer but we
see more extreme weather events.

Well, let me tell you, what happened here Friday was an extreme
weather event, the likes of which Washington literally has never seen. It
has never seen this kind of storms with hurricane force winds. It was just
amazing, and we`re going to see more of it. We`re absolutely going to see
more of it.

SCHULTZ: A new poll from the Washington Post shows most people --
they don`t think climate change is the top environmental problem. Twenty-
nine percent say it`s water and air pollution.

Have Americans lost focus? I mean, that same poll shows 78 percent
believe global warming is a serious problem. I mean, this has got to be a
wakeup call. But if you`ve got legislators who are in denial, where do we

ROBINSON: Well, you know, continue the education, I think. And
unfortunately, more events like we saw and more heat records. It`s 109
degrees in Nashville the other day. It`s 108 degrees in Columbia, South

More of this sort of thing is going to concentrate the divide. I
hope it is sooner rather than later.

But inevitably, we`re going to see this as important as it is seen,
for example, in the rest of the world where global warming is a huge issue.

SCHULTZ: That`s a great point. You know, what is the rest of the
world saying about the United States? We sit here in denial. Our
lawmakers do. Oh, by the way, what ever happened to cap and trade?

ROBINSON: Right, what ever happened to cap and trade, which was once
a Republican idea, but there are a lot of Republican ideas they can`t
stomach these days.

You know, it`s not just the United States. China -- China`s
emissions, green house gas emissions have gone through the roof. India is
rising. Brazil, Russia, the industrializing countries, so it`s bigger than
just the United States.

But the United States, I think, has to, and should play a leadership
role if we get onboard, and if we lead, I think others will follow.

My prediction, frankly, is that China is going to way beat us to
solar energy technology.

SCHULTZ: Sure. They`re taking it right from us right now when it
comes to manufacturing solar panels and what not. They`re undercutting us
like crazy.

You know, the president obviously was handed a tough assignment when
he stepped into the Oval Office. There was a lot on his plate. If he wins
reelection, there`s a lot of talk about him going down the road of

But if he wins reelection, what about this issue? You have 78
percent of American people who think global warming is a real problem. And
he wins a second term, would this be the right time to do something?

ROBINSON: I think it absolutely would. I mean -- and very frankly,
there`s a whole lot of pent up demands from environmentalists on this issue
and on other issues, kind of waiting for the president to really lead on
these issues.

I think a second term, there`s a rich opportunity here for him to
leave a legacy, the president who begins the energy transformation of this
economy, the world`s largest economy. And really puts it on the right
course, is going to go down in history as having done a great thing.

SCHULTZ: Eugene Robinson, you have a great Fourth. Great to have

ROBINSON: You, too.

SCHULTZ: Thank you.

He`s never served in the military, but Tea Party Congressman Joe
Walsh is attacking a double amputee for talking about her service. Next,
I`ll talk with Lieutenant Colonel Tammy Duckworth about Walsh`s
unbelievable comments.

And Republicans are attacking Chief Justice John Roberts. They say
the Supreme Court`s health care ruling is flawed. Our panel will weigh in
on the real problem. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Republican Congressman Joe Walsh has never served in the United
States military. Never been there, never done that. Yet, he is attacking
someone who does. Because he believes true heroes don`t talk about their
military service.

Here`s what he told a town hall in Illinois.


WALSH: Understand something about John McCain. His political
advisers day after day had to take him and almost throw him against the
wall and hit him against the head and say, Senator, you have to let people
know you served.

Finally, he talked a little bit about it, but it was very
uncomfortable for him. That`s what`s so noble about our heroes.


SCHULTZ: Walsh apparently doesn`t understand one of the major themes
of John McCain`s 2008 presidential campaign. John McCain served this
country honorably. He also has talked about that service in debates, in
interviews. He ran political ads about it.

When you serve this country, it`s OK to discuss it on the campaign
trail. But Walsh was using that revisionist history to go after his
Democratic opponent Tammy Duckworth.

Duckworth has served her country for over two decades. She lost both
of her legs and the use of her right arm after her helicopter was hit in
Iraq by an RPG.

Here`s what Walsh had to say about her.


WALSH: Now, I run against a woman who -- I mean, my God, that`s all
she talks about. Our true heroes -- the men and women who served us --
that`s the last thing in the world they talk about. That`s why we are so
indebted and in awe of what they have done.


SCHULTZ: Earlier, Walsh released a statement that reads in part, "Of
course, Tammy Duckworth is a hero. I have called her a hero hundreds of
times in the past four months. However, unlike most veterans I have had
the honor to meet since me election to Congress who rarely if ever talk
about their service or the combat they have seen.

That is darn near all of what Tammy Duckworth talks about. Her
service demands our thanks and our respects, but not our vote."

Joining me now is former assistant secretary of Veteran Affairs,
Lieutenant Colonel Tammy Duckworth. She`s running, of course, for Congress
in Illinois`s eighth district.

Lieutenant Colonel, great to have you with us tonight. I`m somewhat
astounded. There`s kind of an unwritten rule in American society. You
don`t criticize those who wear the uniform. But apparently, Congressman
Walsh feels it`s fair game to do so.

What`s your reaction to the kind of verbiage he`s using on the
campaign trail and in town hall about your service?

I just think it`s irresponsible of him. Look, the real heroes from Iraq in
my unit were the men who carried me to safety, risking their own lives to
save mine. The real heroes are walking foot patrols in Afghanistan right
now, and there are real heroes laying in hospital beds in V.A. hospitals
and military hospitals across the nation.

And really for Mr. Walsh to denigrate military service is very
insulting, because he`s using it for his own political gain. And our 23
million veterans have done more in one day in uniform than he`s done for
this country.

SCHULTZ: What kind of message is the congressman sending to veterans
with these kinds of remarks?

DUCKWORTH: He`s trying to muddy the waters. He`s just trying to
shift the focus away from the fact that he`s done nothing for the people of
the district. He`s irresponsible in his words and he`s irresponsible in
his actions. He voted against Medicare three teams. And when I talk about
how my wounds help me to understand what it`s like to go through a major
medical crisis, it`s because the people in the district are scared that
he`s voted against Medicare three times just in the short time he`s been in

SCHULTZ: I understand this isn`t the first time the congressman has
gone after your military record. Is this a sign of just how desperate he
is? And he really picks on you. He says that`s all you talk about on the
campaign trail. Your response?

DUCKWORTH: Well, he talks about nothing that has to do with what`s
going on in the district. I talk a lot about the fact that we need to make
sure that college is affordable for our kids, right? Yet he voted to let
college loans, interest rates double just last week. He also was the only
member of the Illinois delegation last week to vote against the
infrastructure bill that would allow us to fix the transportation
infrastructure in Illinois.

So he`s just trying to shift the focus away from the fact that he`s
done nothing in his two years in Congress other than be an extremist loud
mouth for the Tea Party. And really he`s not served his district at all.
I`m proud of my service. I`m proud that I have lived up to my
responsibilities to this nation in uniform, that I lived up to my
responsibilities as a public servant. And I hope that I get a chance in
November to continue to serve my nation and my district.

SCHULTZ: Is that his pattern, to be an extremist loud mouth for the
Tea Party?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I think, in his own words, he told the people of the
district, you`re not going to get squat from me. I am in Washington to be
a poster child for the Tea Party. If you look at what he`s done, he`s done
exactly that. He`s done nothing for the people of the district. He
continuously votes against Medicare. He votes against Social Security. He
votes against transportation. He won`t do anything for the people of the
district. Yet he questions the service of those -- the 23 million veterans
in this nation.

SCHULTZ: The group Vote Vets believes that he should resign. Your
thoughts on that?

DUCKWORTH: I think that Mr. Walsh needs to, you know, do whatever his
conscious tells him to do. I think that the voters have an opportunity in
November to decide who will be the best servant to serve their needs. It`s
kind of ironic that this is the Fourth of July week that we`re celebrating
our nation`s independence. We`re celebrating democracy. And to have a
sitting member Congress, in a very irresponsible way, throw this into the
mix when we really should be celebrating our veterans, and we should be
talking about our democracy and our nation -- you know, my family fought
for the founding of this nation. I`m a Daughter of the American

My dad lies at rest in Arlington. My brother, husband, and I, all
three of us serves. I don`t think Mr. Walsh remembers how much others have
sacrificed so that he can say whatever he needs to say, no matter how
irresponsible and vile it is.

SCHULTZ: I have to tell you, Lieutenant Colonel, I`m at a loss as to
who he`s trying to appeal to here. I don`t know. I don`t know where this
guy is coming from. He`s definitely a loose cannon. Of course, we want to
thank you for your service to the country and your sacrifice. Tammy
Duckworth, good luck to you. Thanks for joining us here tonight on THE ED

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.
Stay with us.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The chief justice of the Supreme
Court of the United States is now run by the American media.


SCHULTZ: Republicans have turned on Justice John Roberts. We`ll dive
into the politics of the nation`s highest court with the big panel next.

I`ll break out a fantastic backyard barbecue recipe and tips to set
your head-shaking friends straight on health care during the Fourth of July

And our look back on the life of Andy Griffith ahead.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Well, the Supreme Court has
sprung a leak. And Republicans, uh oh, they`re drinking tainted water all
of a sudden. CBS News reports Chief Justice John Roberts initially voted
to strike down the Affordable Care Act individual mandate, before deciding
to uphold it. Their report is based on two anonymous sources.

Well, the right wing loves this leak. They say Roberts caved to the
left wing media pressure, so he wouldn`t be viewed as an activist judge.
It gives them a great excuse to attack Roberts and blast the court`s
decision as flawed.


DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": He voted to keep it and frankly I
think he should be ashamed of himself. He was going to go the other way
100 percent. Everybody said from inside that he was going to other way,
and all of a sudden, he voted against it.

LIMBAUGH: The chief justice of the Supreme Court of the United States
is now run by the American media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went political. He went towards self
promotion. I reads the media. I think the libs know that. And you know
the Libs, like the Mob, they`ll be in for the next decision.


SCHULTZ: Righties love the substance of this leak. The leak itself
is the problem here. Their blind ideology is stunning. The leak puts the
institution of court in jeopardy. Appellate courts function because
members can openly discuss their thoughts about cases without fear of those
discussions being used against them in the future.

If this changes, so will the way the Supreme Court operates in this
country, which I happen to think is kind of dangerous.

For more, let`s turn to Joy Reid of "The Grio." Also with us tonight,
Ari Melber, who is an attorney, of "The Nation" magazine, and Republican
strategist Susan Del Percio.

You didn`t think I was going to say that?

ARI MELBER, "THE NATION": You got it in there.

SCHULTZ: I`ll ask you first. What`s this mean? I mean, this story
leaked somewhere. If it came from a justice on the court, what does it

MELBER: It means a huge break with the way the court has run
literally since its founding. Professor Orin Care (ph), who happens to be
conservative but is concerned about this, like many people who follow the
court, said he cannot think of a leak ever coming from the court like this.

SCHULTZ: Does it hurt the country?


MELBER: We don`t know where it`s from but this is what we do know.
Law clerks on the court are fresh out of school or one year of clerking.
They have their whole careers ahead of them. It would be a suicidal career
act for a law clerk to leak it. The only people who would know this type
of information are clerks, justices, and maybe their spouses.

DEL PERCIO: That`s what they kind of went to in 1992 with Kennedy
switching his position. It did come out on a leak on Planned Parenthood v.
Casey. So it`s not the first time, unless they can figure out it was a
justice. It would be very significant. But they need to thoroughly
investigate this. This is as important as investigating a security leak
that we have right now in the White House. You have to follow through on
this. It`s too important. Frankly --

SCHULTZ: What would you do to adjust this -- let`s say you have this
investigation, and there he is, Clarence Thomas, he`s the one. What
happens now?

DEL PERCIO: I`m not sure what happens now, but you better make sure
it was no one on the staff. If it goes to a justice, then he has to be
shown for what it is. It`s too important. The court`s too important. The
clips that you showed coming in, you`re talking about the chief justice of
the Supreme Court. That`s ridiculous, regardless of party, regardless of
liberal -- regardless of being conservative, you do not speak of the chief
justice of the Supreme Court that way.

SCHULTZ: Joy, what do you think?

JOY REID, "THE GRIO": You know what? You mentioned the name that is
being floated as the potential source of the leak, which is Clarence
Thomas. Think Progress has a piece up now where they quote a "New York
Times" article which says that Thomas had a very simpatico relationship
with the reporter from CBS who broke the story. So suspicion is beginning
to fall on him.

Big problem if it becomes located in the Office of Clarence Thomas,
because, of course, Ginny Thomas, his wife, ran a Tea Party organization
whose principle mission was to overturn the Affordable Care Act. So he was
too close to this issue in the beginning. There were even calls for him to
recuse himself.

If you remember, that`s what first got Anthony Weiner noticed by the
Andrew Breitbart people, because he was on the floor of the House saying
that Thomas should recuse himself because of his wife`s issues with being
in the Tea Party and being against health care reform.

MELBER: The other thing here, though, that is so funny about this
ridiculous charge is if this is true, the theory behind the leak, that
basically there was a vote switch -- and we don`t know -- if that`s true,
that would be a really good thing. That`s how this institution is supposed
to work. They trade papers. They trade arguments. And at the end, they
have a final vote.

We don`t know what happened because typically it is in secret. But if
there was a genuine airing of views that helped someone change their mind
through the course of the arguments, that`s how it is supposed to work. If
it were all just voting, it would just be Congress. And historically,
we`ve thought of it as very different than Congress.

DEL PERCIO: It`s interesting that it didn`t happen beforehand. I
mean, obviously this person had the information for quite some time. And
we were all praising the Supreme Court, saying oh, my gosh, isn`t this
great. There were no leaks on this whatsoever. Then for this to come out
afterwards is so disturbing.

SCHULTZ: It kind of looks like there might be some justices that are
back stabbing one another.

REID: That`s the other thing, is it does affect obviously the
relationship on the court, because if other justices feel that they can`t
trust each other to maintain the confidentiality of their discussion,
that`s a problem, too. Remember, there was supposedly not one person who
sort of moved to the other side, right?

You had two liberal justices that also went the other way on the
Medicare provision. So it appears that, as Ari mentioned, there was some
sort of horse trading and people trying to look out for the good of the
court. If that`s what happened, that would be a good thing.

Which goes to why they say that it was -- that the chief justice
changed his position, because it was about how the court would look.
That`s part of his job. That`s part of his responsibility.

DEL PERCIO: That`s not what he took the oath for. He`s supposed to
take -- uphold the Constitution. I have a problem if he put the image of
the court ahead of his own opinion. I`m just saying, I`m not even going to
fight the legal side of his decision. You`re the attorney.

MELBER: Don`t give up right away. But since Chief Justice Roberts
joined the court in 2005, there have been over 100 five to four decisions.
Those are the big split decisions that we think about. He has moved over
one time to join the liberals. Anthony Kennedy has done about 25 towards
the liberals and 50 towards the conservatives.

SCHULTZ: They`re calling him a turn coat.

MELBER: One. This shows you the tolerance for changing your mind

DEL PERCIO: Can you imagine what the liberals would say if he went
the other way?


SCHULTZ: I would say that`s what he was hired to do.

REID: They`d say he was hired to do that. And partisan rulings are
what the right now demands even of court justices. There`s no respect for
sort of the traditional role of the court here. What the right is mad
about is that John Roberts did not behave as a political actor and
basically another member of the House of Representatives. That`s not his

DEL PERCIO: It`s also the job of the justice to rise above that.

REID: Typically, the Commerce Clause has been broadly interpreted by
the court. It`s actually a rather new thing to start limiting the Commerce
-- right. so that the interpretive power of the court. They`re supposed
to interpret their view of the Constitution. You can find nothing in this
ruling that is blatantly out of step, except for the fact he`s limiting the
Commerce Clause. That`s what`s new.

SCHULTZ: We can anticipate that this ruling is going to set the table
for Monday morning quarterbacking now for every ruling, and scrutiny as we
move forward.

Joy Reid, Ari Melber, and Susan Del Percio, great to have you with us

The heart and soul of one of the greatest TV shows of all time has to
-- has died, Andy Griffith. Stay with us.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Andy Griffith Show."


SCHULTZ: And that`s the way it sounded back in the `60s. Welcome
back to THE ED SHOW. Of course, that was the unforgettable open to "the
Andy Griffith Show" from the 1960s. Many of us grew up on it. Andy
Griffith passed away this morning at his home on Roanoke Island, North
Carolina. Griffith began his entertainment career with a traveling act and
was nominated for a Tony Award before he was tapped to be the center of
"The Andy Griffith Show." which ran for eight years and was always in the
top 10.


ANDY GRIFFITH, ACTOR: The Franklins of Riviera rose petals and the
passion of the Mediterranean Moon and a rugged He-Man scent. Caution,
users should wear gloves.


SCHULTZ: The show had a half a dozen memorable characters like Barney
Fife (ph), the deputy. Old Barney, he wanted to arrest everybody. Gomer
Pile was in there. Let`s not forget Goober, his brother. Floyd the
Barber, who never paid his parking tickets, and Barney always wanted to
arrest him.

And then of course, there was Otis the Drunk who always checked
himself into jail. Aunt Bee and Opie had some pretty memorable
conversations. And of course Opie was played by Ron Howard. The film
director remembered Griffith today.


RON HOWARD, DIRECTOR AND ACTOR: He created an environment on that set
that was very creative, very playful. Like all great lessons, it was


SCHULTZ: Griffith had another long run as the lawyer "Matlock." But
well before his TV fame, he landed the central role in a movie ahead of its
time, "A Face in the Crowd." Griffith played a drunk who became a media


GRIFFITH: I`m not just an entertainer, I`m an influence, a wielder of
opinion, a force.

I`m just a country boy. But the president tries to stop me, I`ll
flood the White House with millions of telegrams.


SCHULTZ: Andy Griffith championed Democrat causes and plugged the
Affordable Care Act in 2010. He probably could have had a career in
politics. In fact, a 1989 poll showed him leading incumbent Senator from
North Carolina, Jesse Helms, 48 to 39 percent. In 2006, Griffith received
the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President George W. Bush.

And Griffith was 86 years old.


SCHULTZ: I actually wanted to do this. The Big Finish tonight,
folks, I got two recipes for you that you`re definitely going to want to
use on Fourth of July, that would be tomorrow. Number one is the Cherry
Cola Ribs. First of all, the Cherry Cola Ribs are absolutely outstanding.

Number two, how to talk to your conservative brother-in-law once he
comes over and screws up the whole cook out and talks about how bad
Obamacare is. I`ll show you how to handle that guy. It seems like there`s
always an Uncle Fred in the family that won`t shut up about how bad
President Obama is. You give him the facts this time. I`ll work it out
for you.

Now look, you`re going to want to feed people first. It always really
helps. You know what, my favorite is the Cherry Cola Glazed Ribs, 48
ounces of Cherry Cola. Get it flat. Don`t worry about that. Get it flat.
Two cups of cherry jam. Two thirds cup of mustard with horse radish. I
know it sounds a little goofy, but that horse radish really cooks extremely

Three tablespoons of Apple cider vinegar. One table spoon -- and
don`t use more than one tablespoon -- one tablespoon of hot pepper saw.
And of course, it`s going to work for about seven or eight pounds of pork
spareribs. Don`t forget them. Of course, I never would.

And you`re going to find the full recipe on

Now I will tell you how great it is. I have the weight to prove it.
But the real tricky part in all of these family gathers, especially this
time of year when people are feeling good, a little boisterous because it`s
summertime -- they got a few days off. This is a little different.

Now as progressives, you and me, we like to find ourselves -- end up
quite often finding someone in the family, a brother-in-law, an uncle or
cousin -- who doesn`t have their head screwed on right. You still love
them and everything, but you know, it`s health care and it`s socialism and
here we go again. Although that conversation won`t ruin the ribs, I
guarantee you that.

So I want you to have the top five benefits of the Affordable Care
Act. There`s a bunch of them, but we narrowed them down to what we think
is going to be easy conversation that might shut up Uncle Fred, if you know
what I mean.

Number one, coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions, children
right now and everyone 2014. That`s an easy one to remember. Number two,
insurance companies -- they cannot drop coverage when you get sick. So
Uncle Fred, if you get sick, your insurance company can`t drop you thanks
to President Obama.

Number three, there`s a lifetime cap on the coverage. No, there`s
not. Not anymore. There`s no lifetime cap on the coverage. Uncle Fred,
if you get really, really sick, we`re not going to cut you off at a million

Number four, children, oh, yes, they can stay on their parents` plan
until they`re 26 years old, then go to somebody who is in the family in
that demographic and ask them, Uncle Fred, if that`s a good deal or not.
And number five, you actually get a rebate. Conservatives love rebates. A
rebate if your insurance company doesn`t spend at least 80 percent of its
premiums on actual care.

Now you`ll see me, I have been swinging this a lot. Do not use this
as a weapon. It`s not necessary. As progressives, we don`t do those kinds
of things. But it might get them thinking a little bit if we do. OK,
let`s go to Karen Finney, MSNBC political analyst and former DNC
communications director.

Do most people understand what`s happening here when it comes to the
health care? Are we going to run into conversations over the barbecue
where people don`t know, Karen?

you, when I worked for the Clinton administration, I used to get it all the
time when Hillary was working on health care. Usually it`s the, here`s
what I want you to go tell the president. That`s more like I think what
people will get tomorrow. Here`s what you should go tell President Obama.

SCHULTZ: Does it help to present conservatives with facts or just let
them be in denial?

FINNEY: Oh, Ed, they sure seem to be more comfortable in denial.
Those pesky facts just seem to get in the way. I will say that at a
barbecue, though, as you`re perhaps watching a portly uncle eat some of
your fabulous ribs, you can remind them that the diabetes, which is now a
pre-existing condition thanks to President Obama, no worries, it`s covered.

SCHULTZ: There you go. And there`s always Medicare and Medicaid
benefits in this law, of course, and dozens of other reforms. How much
should President Obama be trying to talk about all of these benefits when
he`s on the road?

FINNEY: You know, I think he should talk about it a lot. I think
it`s important that we talk about the things in very concrete terms and in
real-life terms that if kids have insurance and they otherwise wouldn`t, if
you have a pre-existing condition, why not talk about it? As Democrats, Ed
-- you`re the one who pointed this out. We have been trying to do this in
this country for how many years? Democrats got it done. Let`s be proud of
that. Let`s celebrate that on July 4th.

SCHULTZ: Let`s do that in conversation full of ribs. Now I`m giving
away a secret. When radio and cable is all over in my lifetime -- I hope
it`s not for a long time -- I think I would like to go to chef school just
to see what it`s all about. Karen, you have a great Fourth. Thanks so

FINNEY: You, too, Ed.

SCHULTZ: That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. Ezra Klein filling in
for Rachel Maddow tonight. Good evening, Ezra.

EZRA KLEIN, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. You`re looking great
over there.

SCHULTZ: Thank you. It`s the Cherry Cola Ribs. I want you to try

KLEIN: I would love to try them. I`m looking for the invite, sir.
Have a great weekend.

SCHULTZ: You, too.


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