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The Ed Show for Tuesday, July 10, 2012

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Guests: Martin O`Malley, John Judge; Catherine Crier; Jon Bramnick; Donna Lieberman; Steve Israel

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

One hundred and nineteen days before the election, and Mitt Romney
still refuses to quit hiding his wealth.

Come on, Mittster, give us the tax returns.

This is "THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


your papers, but he won`t show us his.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Democrats attack Mitt Romney`s secrecy on his
tax returns, as Republicans get deceptive.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: I think he has released the tax

SCHULTZ: Maryland Governor Martin O`Malley isn`t pulling any punches
on his offshore money and he`s here tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney
to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.

SCHULTZ: The Pennsylvania voter suppression story just got uglier.

NARRATOR: This year, the law required every Pennsylvania voter show a
photo ID at the polls.

SCHULTZ: Why was a Mitt Romney fund-raiser paid $250,000 to run the
state`s voter id campaign? The out of control Republican Party is voting
to repeal Obamacare for the 31st time.

do not want to go down the path of Obamacare. That`s why we voted over 30

SCHULTZ: DCCC Chairman Steve Israel is hitting Republicans hard for
playing games and he`s here tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our forefathers rejected tyranny and so should we.
Support HR-6079, a bill that would repeal Obamacare. Let`s get rid of the
boss once and for all.


SCHULTZ: Good to have with us tonight. Thanks for watching.

The cloud of secrecy surrounding Mitt Romney`s finances is refusing to
lift. The candidate has no one to blame but himself. In Colorado today,
Romney said President Obama and the Democrats are trying to avoid a real
debate on the issues.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president the other day
was kind enough to give me a call on the day that I cinched the nomination
and he said, I congratulate you, and then he said, I think the country will
benefit from an important and honest debate on the issues and on the course
for America, the future for America. And I think that`s absolutely right.

So far, his campaign hasn`t started that. All they`re doing is
attacking on every diversion they can come up with.


SCHULTZ: It`s difficult for the president of the United States to
have an honest and open debate with Mitt Romney when Americans still don`t
know much about Mitt Romney and his finances. Vice President Joe Biden
explained why Romney`s double standard hurts him among voters during his
speech to the Hispanic advocacy group La Raza.


SCHULTZ: Instead of answering the questions, the Romney campaign is
using political hacks to dismiss these complicated financial issues.

Here`s the RNC`s Sean Spicer on MSNBC.


ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC HOST: A sterling example of George Romney who
released a dozen tax years and said that I`d he do any less, it can be
taken out of context and not really illustrative.

SEAN SPICER, RNC: Frankly, Andrea, it`s a distraction. He released
the tax records -- now, there will never be enough for team Obama.


SCHULTZ: Never be enough for team Obama? Really? Well, don`t we
deserve more than just maybe one year of tax returns? Romney`s surrogates
like this guy, Jason Chaffetz, pretends Mitt Romney has released all of his
past tax returns.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should Governor Romney release all of those tax
returns? Right now, he`s in a very unique position for a presidential
candidate. He`s only released one year and a summary of 2011.

CHAFFETZ: Governor Romney has paid 100 percent of his taxes. He`s
complied 100 percent with what the law requires.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m sorry. I was asking if you think he
should release them? Not whether he`s complied with the law? Should he
release his tax returns?

CHAFFETZ: I think he has released the tax returns.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should he release them or not?

CHAFFETZ: No, I don`t. Most people, they don`t care about this.
Governor Romney has been very successful, get over it, it`s a reality.


SCHULTZ: Oh, we`re over it, all right. He has been successful. We
just want to know how successful on foreign soil.

What about loyalty?

During a radio interview in Iowa, Romney said again he has nothing to


ROMNEY: My investments have been held by a blind trust, have been
managed by a trustee. I don`t manage them. Don`t even know where they

Those -- that trustee follows all U.S. laws, all the taxes are paid,
as appropriate, all of them have been reported to the government. There`s
nothing hidden there.


SCHULTZ: And if there`s nothing to hide, then why won`t Romney just
be open and transparent about his finances?

This is just one of several important questions the American people
are entitled to know about the man who wants to lead the free world.

Here are, you know, four of the questions:

Why would Mitt Romney invest money in offshore tax havens if there is
no tax advantage to doing so?

Why did Romney transfer ownership of a Bermuda holding firm to a blind
trust in his wife`s name a day before he became governor of Massachusetts?

Why was the ownership of this firm not disclosed on Romney`s federal
financial reports during his presidential campaign?

Why won`t Mitt Romney release more than one year of tax returns?

Congressman James Clyburn was on my radio show today and said the
silence on these questions is hurting Romney`s credibility.


REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Either you`re hiding
something or you`re in some way betting against the country that you now
want to head. How can we elect somebody to be president of the United
States without finding out whether or not he is really loyal to the United
States of America?


SCHULTZ: It`s a question of loyalty now. Don`t you think? Are you
loyal to the country?

Is it disloyal to send money overseas and try to make more money after
getting the fruits of this land in your back pocket?

We don`t know the answer to a lot of these questions, but another
supporter gave us insight into the Republican mindset when it comes to the
rich and paying taxes.

Good old South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham was asked by "The
Huffington Post" for his opinion on Mitt Romney`s offshore tax havens.

This is what the senator said. "It`s really American to avoid paying
taxes, legally. As long as it was legal, I`m OK with it. I don`t blame
anybody for using the tax codes to their advantage. It`s a game we play.
Every American tries to find a way to get the most deductions they can. I
see nothing wrong with playing the game because we set it up to be a game."

Really? Gosh, Senator, you don`t sound like a guy who`s been audited
by the Internal Revenue Service. When I was audited by the IRS, that son
of a gun wasn`t playing games. He wanted to know where the money was and
he wanted to know what the heck happened.

It`s amazing to me how entitled the wealthy in this country feel about
their taxes. The sacrifices -- think about this -- the sacrifices that
have been made by Americans who have come before us, they have now turned
it into a game in Washington. Hell, it`s just a game. Let`s called --
let`s try to beat the IRS.

Did Dick Cheney play a game when he got five deferments? I don`t

You and I as American have been so fortunate not to have to go to war
and pay the ultimate price. We should be honored to pay taxes to fund the
very institution that make this country great today. And to support the
institutions that keep us safe.

But it`s just a game. It`s called beat the IRS.

You know what? What Lindsey Graham said may be the most honest answer
a Republican has ever given when it comes to taxes. Mitt Romney could
really help this country out a lot if he could be so honest.

But here we are as a country, we`re 119 days away from the election
and there are surrogates out on the talking heads in Mitt Romney`s corner
trying to make the case that we know enough. That he really doesn`t have
to come forward with any more tax returns.

The real Mitt Romney wants again needs to stand up to the American
people and stop hiding behind accountants and hiding behind schemes and
explain to us his wealth. Don`t we deserve that as Americans?

You know, it`s amazing what you find around the office. Doggone it,
here are my taxes from 2008.

You know, when you file taxes, you got deadlines. It`s April 15th, if
you got an extension, you got until October 15th. And if it goes beyond
that, it`s a penalty.

And if you have amendments that you got to make to your tax return,
doggone, they`re still going to want their money. You see, there`s one
thing about the IRS. All they want is their money.

And this game that Lindsey Graham has put together with his other
friends on the wealthy side of America`s ledger, they say it`s a game
that`s set up for the wealthy. Let`s play it, let`s see how little we can

Well, for Mitt Romney, it`s 13.9 percent, while middle class Americans
across America are paying double that.

You middle classers, you just don`t play the game well enough.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: should Americans be concerned that a presidential
candidate keeps his money in foreign banks? Text A for yes, text B for no
to 622639, or you can go to our blog at And leave a comment,
we`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

I`m joined tonight by Maryland Governor Martin O`Malley.

Governor, good to have you with us tonight. Appreciate your time on
the program.

GOV. MARTIN O`MALLEY (D), MARYLAND: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: You know, how big an issue is this, do you think it is with
the American people? Are the Democrats just --

O`MALLEY: I think it`s a very big deal.

SCHULTZ: Do you really think Americans care about this?

O`MALLEY: Oh, absolutely. You know why we should all care about it
is this, there is no progress without a job. We all want faster job
creation. We want our economy to grow by greater strides than it has
coming out of this Bush recession.

So we have two theories here as to how to do it. One, that President
Obama has advanced that our parents and grandparents believed in, which was
to work hard, to invest in our country, to believe enough in our country
that we could make it better for our children with more jobs and

The problem that the Romney campaign has is this -- with Governor
Romney, shielding his income outside the country, either in the Cayman
Islands or in this Bermuda shell corporation or in Swiss bank accounts, he
is really undercutting their story.

SCHULTZ: The unpatriotic -- I want to play this. President Obama was
asked in a television interview in New Hampshire, he was asked this
question, and I think every elected official should answer this question.
That`s my opinion. Here it is.


REPORTER: Is it your belief that it`s unpatriotic for someone to have
a Swiss bank account?

what`s important if you are running for president is that the American
people know who you are, what you have done, and that you`re an open book.
And that`s been true of every presidential candidate dating back to Mr.
Romney`s father.


SCHULTZ: Pretty clear that President Obama is walking a fine line
there. He didn`t answer the question directly. He talked about

What do you think? Is it unpatriotic to have money overseas after
getting the fruits of the land here in America and being successful?

O`MALLEY: You know, I think what`s very, very clear is that having
your money sheltered overseas and avoiding paying your taxes in America
when you`re part of the highest earning 1 percent of our country means that
you`re not contributing to our economy and not making it grow.

I appreciate -- you know, I know people have asked, is it patriotic or
not patriotic? I think more fundamentally, we need to ask, does it work to
make the economy grow or not? I mean, their theory is that if you cut
taxes even more deeply for the top 1 percent of people, they`ll invest it
back in creating jobs.

That`s not what Romney is doing with his money, is it? He put it in
Switzerland. He put in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, and that`s the core of
this and why the Romney campaign is so very afraid of this issue and why
they won`t release the taxes.

SCHULTZ: I think it`s a character issue. I think it`s far beyond the
economy. I understand the connection you`re making to the economy.

But when you have a sitting senator saying this whole thing is a game,
playing a game. Do you agree --

O`MALLEY: Yes, that was appalling. I found that -- I found that
utterly appalling. You know, most of us go to line of duty funerals all
too regularly. And what so many hard working families have had to endure
over this protracted conflicts, that`s a sacrifice. That`s a tremendous

And to have the United States senator talk about playing the game at
the same time that his Tea Party extremist allies in the House are talking
about dismantling large portions of our Army, of our Navy, of our Marine
Corps, I think is really disgusting. And I think it is not befitting of a
great and free people and the once proud Party of Lincoln.

The question we have to answer this fall is do we want to move forward
with a economy that`s growing or continue to believe the ridiculous story
that the bigger and richer a guy`s Swiss bank account is, the more jobs is
creates in America. Give me a break.

SCHULTZ: Well, I agree with you, Governor. And I also find it very
ironic that the very same people who are clamoring for Obama to come
forward with a birth certificate that they always say is not real, these
are the same people who don`t want to vet Mitt Romney and find out about
his finances. I find it interesting.

O`MALLEY: That`s ridiculous.

SCHULTZ: Governor Martin O`Malley, great to have you with us tonight.

O`MALLEY: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Thanks so much.

Remember to answer the question at the bottom of the screen, share
your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow, and also on Facebook. We love to know
what you think.

Today, Mitt Romney talked about the glory days of a past president,
but he was not talking about the Bushes. Jonathan Alter joins me next.
Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, what`s the deal with Mitt Romney`s political
romance with Bill Clinton? Jonathan Alter on that next.

It`s Groundhog Day in the House of Representatives where Republicans
are about to stage their 31st vote on repealing Obamacare. Democrats are
fighting back. Congressman Steve Israel of the DCCC is here later.

How in the world can a city in America get away with paying a
firefighter less than a fried cook at McDonald`s? Scranton, Pennsylvania,
is short-changing its bravest and we`ll talk to one of them tonight.

Share you thoughts with us on Facebook and Twitter using #EdShow.
We`re coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

President Obama and Mitt Romney are at a standoff on taxes and
Democrats definitely should get behind the president on this because he`s
got the winning argument.

It`s very simple. The president wants to keep tax cuts for the middle
class. The president wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire for the top 2
percent. Mitt Romney pushes the old line about how this will hurt the job

But today, in Grand Junction, Colorado, Romney did something rather
strange and extraordinary, I think. He got very nostalgic about the
policies of President Bill Clinton.


ROMNEY: Bill Clinton called himself a new Democrat. He put that
behind him. He believed in smaller government, reformed welfare as we knew
it and tried to get the economy going with trade and other provisions,
lowered taxes.

Look, new Democrats have done some good things. A lot of Republicans
have done some good things. But this old style liberalism of bigger and
bigger government and bigger and bigger taxes has got to end and we will
end it in November.


SCHULTZ: That`s right. You just heard the Republican nominee for
president talking about the glory days of President Bill Clinton.

Funny thing, though, Romney got his facts wrong. Taxes were higher
under President Clinton compared to President Obama. Not lower. That`s
why President Obama always makes this point.


OBAMA: Anybody making over $250,000 a year, including me, we go back
to the tax rates that we were paying under Bill Clinton -- which, by the
way, was a time when our economy created nearly 23 million new jobs, the
biggest budget surplus in history, and created plenty of millionaires to


SCHULTZ: Scratching your head yet? If Romney wants to talk fondly of
a past president, why not pick one from his own party, like President
George W. Bush. After all, Romney wants to keep all of the Bush tax cuts
and add more tax cuts for the rich.

That`s why Clinton said Romney basically wants to do what they did
before on steroids, which will get you the same consequences you got before
on steroids.

Let`s bring in MSNBC political analyst and "Bloomberg View" columnist
Jonathan Alter.


SCHULTZ: Jonathan, good to have you with us.

You`re writing a book on this campaign. I think you got a chapter

You know, is it possible that Mitt Romney doesn`t know what he`s
talking about and he got hung up on his B.S. on the stump?

ALTER: No, he`s trying to do something specific here, which is to say
that Barack Obama is a paleo-liberal, you know, as some kind of very old-
fashioned, big government liberal before Bill Clinton came along and said
the era of big government is over.

The problem is that not just because Hillary Clinton is serving in his
administration, but if you go down the issues one after another, Barack
Obama is a Clinton Democrat. He is not some kind of, you know, 1950s style

So they might not always get along that well personally, but
politically, Obama and Clinton are in the same place. As you just said,
taxes under Clinton were actually --

SCHULTZ: No question.

ALTER: Higher. So all that Obama is proposing and for which they`re
calling him a socialist, is to return to the tax structure of the Clinton
years. And for people to object to that is to object to an era where we
created 23 million new jobs.

SCHULTZ: Here`s more from President Obama today.


OBAMA: So we tried what they`re selling. And it didn`t work. And
somehow, they think you don`t remember. But you remember, and we don`t
need more top-down economists. What we need is somebody who is going to
fight every single day to grow the middle class because that`s how our
economy grows, from the middle out, from the bottom up.


SCHULTZ: Good argument, does it stick, does it work? Should
Democrats be on this?

ALTER: It`s a good argument. I think finally, by crystallizing it
and saying, you know, the middle class to build from the middle out from
the bottom up, not from the top down. That`s language that people can
understand. This president has had some trouble in framing the argument in
ways that people get.

And I think it`s starting to clarify for folks, and there is a danger
that some people will buy this argument about the so-called job creators.

What creates jobs is demand. And to have demand, you must bolster the
middle class. Not screw the middle class, which is what has been happening
in this country for some years now.

SCHULTZ: Here`s more from Mitt Romney today in Grand Junction.


ROMNEY: The very idea of raising taxes on small businesses and job
creators at the very time we need more jobs is the sort of thing only an
extreme liberal would come up with.


SCHULTZ: I want to say that is completely false.

ALTER: Totally false.

SCHULTZ: Independent analysts say that only 3 percent of small
businesses would see a tax hike -- tax hike.

So, I mean, they`re lying. The Republicans, they just throw it out
there and lie and all these head shakers get up and start saying oh, yes,
yes, yes. It`s amazing to me.

ALTER: This is a key fact, it comes from the Congressional Joint
Economic Committee. It is beyond dispute. It is a nonpartisan statistic -
- 3.3 percent, that is all of the small businesses that would be affected.

And by the way, those folks that would be affected, they are high net
worth individuals who can afford to pay Clinton era taxes.

Remember, you don`t pay that on the first $250,000.

SCHULTZ: That`s right.

ALTER: It`s only on money above that. All this is, is an effort to
confuse people, to get them thinking that somehow Bill Clinton is -- Barack
Obama is against small business. He`s cut small business taxes 17 times, a
bunch of different fees and other taxes that small businesses paid. It`s
just not factually accurate to say he`s against small business.

SCHULTZ: So, why don`t all of the Democrats just absolutely grab on
what the president was talking about yesterday in his tax proposal and take
it to the House? I mean, go right after it, go on the campaign trail and
just emulate the president and what he wants to do?

I mean, how can you say that you`re for the middle class and be
against what the president was talking about yesterday?

ALTER: Well, I don`t think you can. I mean, there were some
Democrats --

SCHULTZ: Every Democrat should be on board for this.

ALTER: There were some Democrats who wanted the amount to be a
million not $250,000, but they`re sucking it up and going along with the

For the Democrats to hold the White House and hold the Senate, they
are going to be on the same page. The period of kind of creative dissent,
which we believe in and certainly in the media we like seeing Democrats
fighting each other, but for their own good, they`re going to have to pull
together now.

SCHULTZ: Jonathan Alter, thanks for coming in. Appreciate it.

ALTER: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, the Republicans get ready to appeal Obamacare
again. They`re hoping the 31st time will be the charm. We`ll talk about
the politics of it all and the opposition next.

Pennsylvania Republicans -- this is a warning, folks maybe it`s a
wake-up call -- Pennsylvania Republicans are trying to steal the election.
Find out what they`re about to coming up next. Catherine Crier, Donna
Lieberman, and also New Jersey GOP assembly leader John Bramnick will join
me for the discussion.


SCHULTZ: Big day on the Hill tomorrow. Tomorrow, the Republicans are
going to prove for the 31st time just how determined they are to block
President Obama from helping middle class Americans.

The House plans to vote to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act
tomorrow. It will be the 31st time these representatives vote to repeal,
gut, or simply dismantle the Affordable Care Act.

Let me repeat that, these Republicans led by Speaker John Boehner,
have voted to get rid of the Affordable Healthcare Act 30 times. It passed
the house every time, only to die in the Senate.

Speaker Boehner insists this is what America wants.


BOEHNER: I promised the American people on opening day of this
Congress that this would never be about us. Our Congress would be about
listening to the American people and following their will. The American
people do not want to go down the path of Obamacare. That`s why we voted
over 30 times to repeal it, defund it, replace it.


SCHULTZ: Well, Speaker Boehner is wrong. America wants him to stop
it. The newest Chrysler Family Foundation poll shows voters want
Republicans to stop blocking the law and move on to other issues, that`s 56
percent overall, 51 percent of these voters are independents. The
Republican effort to block affordable health care is unpopular and it`s
pointless. President Obama will veto it.


the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do. And you know what, I
will work with anybody to improve the health care law where we can. But
this law is here to stay.


SCHULTZ: And the president`s getting traction with that message.
Attitudes are changing since the Supreme Court upheld the affordable care
act. A new Washington Post/ABC news poll shows growing support for federal
health care reform. Tomorrow, the Republicans will vote to repeal health
care. They`ll be wrong for the 31st time in a row.

Let`s turn to Congressman Steve Israel of New York. Chairman of the
Democratic congressional campaign committee.

Steve, good to have you with us tonight. Good to see you again.
Thanks for coming on.

What are these guys up to? I mean, this is political theater. I
actually think that they think there are some head shakers out there, they
think that they really have a chance of getting this through. What`s the
mission here? What do you think?

REP. STEVE ISRAEL, DCCC CHAIRMAN: Well, the mission is to protect
health insurance company profits even if it undermines the middle class.
They`ll keep doing it for as lock as they have the majority in the House of
Representatives. They`ll do it 30 times, 60 times, 90 times. They will do
it every day if they have to until they protect those health insurance
company profits even if they`re taking away important patient protections
from the middle class.

Here is the contrast between us, Ed. House Democrats want a vote on
comprehensive legislation to create jobs to strengthen the middle class.
House Republicans want to move backwards and vote 31 times to repeal
important patient protections that help the middle class. That`s the
difference between us. And that`s why there`s this buyer`s remorse that
puts the house in play.

SCHULTZ: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie calls it extortion. Here
it is.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Obamacare on Medicaid to the
states is extortion. It said you expand your program to where we tell you.
And if you don`t, we`re taking the rest of your money away. Well, that`s


SCHULTZ: What`s your response to that.

ISRAEL: You know what extortion is? Extortion is taking people`s
money for health insurance and then telling them if you`re a woman with
breast cancer that we took your money but it`s a pre-existing condition so
we`re kicking you off the policy.

Extortion is telling people who want to keep their kids on their
health insurance policies until they`re 26 that the kids get kicked off.
Extortion is with the Republicans are doing now. Extortion is taking votes
to protect health insurance company profits and then extorting the middle
class by doing nothing to help them.

SCHULTZ: So, in some way, is this vote going to help the Democrats on
the campaign trail?

ISRAEL: Let me tell you. If I were a house Republican, I would not
want to go home to my district next weekend and explain to people why I
took away their protections. I would not like to talk to a woman with
breast cancer and explain to her why I voted to make breast cancer a pre-
existing condition again. I would not like to talk to a senior citizen at
a town hall meeting and explain to them why I just voted to re-instate the
doughnut hole and increased their prescription drug prices. I would not
like to explain why, once again, I have put insurance company profits ahead
of the middle class.

Ed, they started the majority by voting to end Medicare to help
millionaires. They`re going to end their majority by repealing patient
protections to help insurance company profits. And I`m fine with that.

SCHULTZ: On the tax issue, should every Democrat get on the same page
and support the president go home and campaign on what he talked about

ISRAEL: I think every Democrat needs to coalesce for middle class --
to continue to middle class tax cuts. That`s what the president said.

You know, I wish we could find the right balance and compromise with
the Republicans. But my guess is this, if we said to them it`s a million,
they would say no, if we said a billion dollars, they would say no.
They`re saying no to everything. We need to create jobs, protect the
middle class and move on.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Steve Israel. Good to have you with us. Thanks
so much.

A lot more coming up in the next half hour of "The Ed Show." Stay
with us.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your right to vote, it`s one thing you never
want to miss out on.

SCHULTZ: The state of Pennsylvania gets busted for paying a Mitt
Romney fund-raiser to run their voter ID campaign. The big panel takes on
that story next.

Florida Governor Rick Scott is answering charges that his
administration covered up a tuberculosis outbreak so they could shut down a
government hospital. Details ahead.




ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: In our efforts to protect voting
rights and to prevent voting fraud, we will be vigilant and we will be
strong, but let me be clear. Let me be very clear. We will not allow
political pretext to disenfranchise American citizens of their most
pressure right.


SCHULTZ: Eric holder speaking earlier at the NAACP`s annual
convention. Holder pledged the justice department would remain aggressive
in challenging a new wave of voter restrictions. The question now is will
it be enough? Republicans are trying to steal the election in
Pennsylvania. One GOP leader in the state even admitted it.


STATE REP. MIKE TURZAI (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Voter id which is going to
allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.


SCHULTZ: So Pennsylvania is now ground zero for voter

Four years ago, Barack Obama bon the state by the biggest majority of
any candidate since 1962. Now, thanks to a new voter ID law, keeping the
Keystone State blue, will be a much larger task and challenge, no doubt.
Over 758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania might not meet the new
voting requirements because a lack of identification. That`s 9.2 percent
of all voters in the state. And democratic strongholds will be hit the
hardest. The new law could affect 18 percent of voters in Philadelphia, a
must-win for President Obama. But Republicans are forging ahead with their
plan. A lucrative state contract was awarded to a Republican lobbying firm
to create ads that educate the masses.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your right to vote, it`s one thing you never
want to miss out on. This year, the law requires that every Pennsylvania
voter show a photo id at the polls.


SCHULTZ: As the Philadelphia city paper reports, the PSAs were
created by a company called the Bravo Group. Bravo Group`s president and
CEO is a former executive director of the state`s Republican party. He`s
also a pharmaceutical lobbyist, a school voucher supporter, and best of
all, he`s a fund-raiser for Mitt Romney. A lot to take down here.

Let`s bring in Donna Lieberman. She is the executive director of the
New York civil liberties union. New Jersey GOP assembly leader Jon
Bramnick, and attorney and author Catherine Crier.

Great to have all of you with us tonight. This is a big and
developing story in America.

Donna, let me ask you, the American civil liberties union and the
NAACP are challenging the law. What are you expectations? What`s going to
happen here?

hard to imagine that this kind of law would survive judicial scrutiny
because the law is not about voter impersonation. It`s really about
impersonating democracy, and there`s no evidence of voter fraud, but
there`s lots and lots of evidence that what this is designed to do is steal
the election for Governor Romney. And the way it`s designed to do that is
by disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of vulnerable Pennsylvanian
citizens who are entitled as a matter of constitutional right to
participate in the electoral process.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Bramnick, the Republicans say it`s about voter fraud.
UFO sightings are more common than cases of voter fraud. Why risk
disenfranchising voters?

disenfranchise. The most important system we have is the people`s right to
vote. Here`s a situation where all we`re saying is you need identification
to vote.

I don`t think that`s a weird idea or a crazy idea. It`s probably --
it`s what most Americans think is the right thing to do to protect the
system. And the arguments that somehow it`s done for suppression. You
know to me, that is just - that`s someone who simply wants to argue that to
vote is important, you should have identification. That`s what the
important factor is.

CATHERINE CRIER, AUTHOR, PATRIOT ACTS: I`m the one who is going to
take the other argument because you have to be kidding me. You know, if
I`m sitting on the bench and somebody comes in and you`re looking at a stat
sheet. What`s the problem? No evidence of rampant voter fraud. None
anywhere. We have had these conversations before.

The Bush administration working as hard as they could came up with
about 32 cases over an eight-year period, OK. Secondarily, what`s the
remedy? Well, we want a picture ID? How hard is it for any college kid to
go nowadays, in fact, you can go online and make up your phony ID.

So, is the remedy addressing the artificial problem? Absolutely not.
And what it is, it is causing a major burden, analogous to a poll tax --

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s what Eric Holder called it, a poll tax. Do you
agree with that?

BRAMNICK: Absolutely not. It`s, first of all, it`s difficult to
identify fraud. That means you have to have an investigation in every

SCHULTZ: But what`s the motivation for doing this if it`s not fraud?

BRAMNICK: Well, it is fraud. But the question is how much fraud is
out there? There has to be an investigation to determine how much fraud
there is. So, it`s only very tight races that they are investigated. So,
to say there`s no fraud out there, that`s just not true.

LIEBERMAN: I think that`s really a misstatement of reality. You
know, the Bush administration spent five years not just trying to find
voter fraud, but pressuring U.S. attorneys on threat of losing their jobs,
that was the scandal in and of itself, to prosecute voter fraud, and they
came up with nothing. In two digits. And this is involving like five

I mean, you know, it is the point is well taken. You know, we`re more
likely to see a UFO than to find voter fraud, and it`s not for lack of
looking. You know they looked hard. They looked under every bed.

SCHULTZ: Driving a car is not a right --

BRAMNICK: But you need a license. Now, my question is to go in and
do what I think is one of the most important civic duties you have, in
order to have some identification and make sure that the voting people know
you`re the voter, I don`t think that`s crazy.

LIEBERMAN: It`s not crazy.

SCHULTZ: 9.2 percent of the people might not vote in Pennsylvania
because of the new laws. You think that`s right?

BRAMNICK: Right now, as soon as they learn it`s the law, as soon as
they understand it`s relatively simple to get the ID --

LIEBERMAN: It`s really simple. It`s really simple for my 99-year-old
great grandmother if I had one to get a voter ID. Really simple for
somebody who suffers disabilities.

CRIER: Counties in state after state that are talking about enacting
this, they don`t have the DV facilities, that have no opportunity to do
this. I mean, the argument is so ludicrous that we`re even having this
debate when there`s no evidence whatsoever, years of investigation, and
this is a problem when the remedy is so easy to get around if you truly
were trying to commit fraud. And you look at the disaffected people.

SCHULTZ: What about Pennsylvania who said these laws are going to
deliver the state for Mitt Romney? Kind of damaging isn`t it?

BRAMNICK: First of all, you can`t speak about everyone`s comment in
the party. I can only speak on the basic concept, in order to vote --

SCHULTZ: He`s a GOP leader. You`re a leader. You know there`s a
responsibility with what you say.

BRAMNICK: Well, there are a lot of leaders, I don`t know him

SCHULTZ: But I mean, he said these laws were designed to deliver the
state to Pennsylvania.

BRAMNICK: He has his right to his opinion.

LIEBERMAN: This isn`t just a matter of opinion. The facts say
otherwise. Look, this is about disenfranchising people who are perceived
by the GOP to be likely to vote democratic. Now, you know, it`s one thing
if you win an election fair and square. But to steal it, that`s not
democracy. That`s fraud.

CRIER: Just fine with the system --

BRAMNICK: Does that mean you have no responsibility whatsoever?
There`s no need whatsoever to get identification?

LIEBERMAN: There`s lots of identification required to register to

SCHULTZ: At this point?

BRAMNICK: You don`t need a photo id at this point to vote.

LIEBERMAN: What`s wrong with using a utility bill? What`s wrong with
using a mortgage bill? What`s wrong with using what they use now?

SCHULTZ: You think New Jersey should have photo id?

BRAMNICK: I would have to look further into it in New Jersey. I
haven`t propose --

SCHULTZ: Donna Lieberman, Jon Bramnick, appreciate it. Catherine
Crier, always. Great to have all of you with us. Great discussion.

Coming up, lawmakers in Florida close their state`s only tuberculosis
hospital after the CDC warned of a major outbreak. We`ll give you the
details next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Up next on "the Ed Show," Florida closes its only
tuberculosis hospital even after a report from the CDC warning of an
outbreak of the disease. We will have all the details.

And the big finish, budget cults force the mayor of Scranton,
Pennsylvania, to slash wages for public workers. I`ll ask a local
firefighter what the pay cut means to his family.

Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show."

In a recent austerity measure, Florida Governor Rick Scott closed his
state`s only tuberculosis hospital in the midst of a dangerous TB outbreak.
In March, Scott and state representatives voted to close AG Holly State
hospital in Palm Beach County, citing a decline in TB cases since 2010.

Just nine days after the vote, the CDC reported Jacksonville, Florida,
was suffering one of the largest TB outbreaks in 20 years. It caused 13
deaths and infected 99 people, mostly among the homeless. According to the
report obtained by the Palm Beach post. Most of the sick were poor black
men. And 3,000 people in the past two years have had close contact with
contagious people at Jacksonville`s homeless shelters.

The CDC issues a stern warning saying the high number of deaths in
this outbreak emphasizes the need for vigilant active case finding,
improved education about TB, and ongoing screening at all sites with
outbreak cases.

This report allegedly went unseen by key decision makers in Florida
and the public was not made aware of anything until early June. AG Holly
State hospital ended up closing three months after the federally issued
warning on July 2nd.

Earlier today, Scott`s office denied the secrecy allegation, however,
the hospital was still closed after the report. As a former hospital
corporation executive, Scott should have known tuberculosis is highly
contagious and is the world`s second biggest infectious killer.

We should also point out that Governor Scott will not expand Medicaid
as outlined by the affordable care act. His state will lose billions of
dollars in federal funding for health care, even though it`s clearly needed
in his state.

Tonight, in our survey, I asked, should Americans be considered a
presidential candidate that keeps his money -- should they be concerned
that a presidential candidate keeps his money in foreign banks. Ninety six
percent of you said yes, four percent of you said no.

Coming up, Scranton, Pennsylvania, cuts pay for police and
firefighters to minimum wage and a firefighter from Scranton, Pennsylvania,
will join us next to tell us what this means to his family.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: To the big finish tonight, the absolute disgrace of paying
police and firefighters minimum wage. It`s happening in Scranton,
Pennsylvania, because the mayor and the city council can`t agree on how to
close a $16 million budget gap.

Here`s the mayor Chris Doherty today.


not only have to provide for salaries, but for health care, for the gas and
diesel for our trucks, and for our landfills. I have to take care of the
whole city. Our employees are great employees who do an outstanding job
and I have to make sure that we take care of the whole city and we`ll get
through this.


SCHULTZ: The state judge has issued an injunction against the mayor
to prevent him from paying firefighters and police less than their regular
salary, but the mayor did it anyway. Now the unions are trying to appeal
to a federal court.

I`m joined tonight by John Judge, a firefighter in Scranton and
president of the Scranton Firefighters International Association of
firefighters local 60.

Mr. Judge, appreciate your time. First, tell us, what does this mean
in real dollars to you and your family and what`s the reaction of you and
your colleagues going through this?

it`s about $1,000 every two weeks that our members are losing. It works
out to about an 80 percent pay cut. And it`s concerning for the
membership, obviously. They`re trying to figure out how they`re going to
make bill payments. A lot of our members are family members, they have
families, they have children.

And you know, figuring out how they`re going to pay for their children
becomes a real issue. And you know, that`s on their mind right now. The
more immediate thing is he hasn`t told us, Mayor Doherty hasn`t told us how
long this is going to last. So, you know, the fear is can this go on for
two weeks, can it go on for a month, I can go on for two months?

So, we don`t know how to actually even plan for it. I mean, you`re a
father as well. I think you have, what, six children? Can you imagine
going from, you know, you`re the head of the house household making a
salary and it gets cut to minimum wage and your son or daughter works at an
ice cream stand down the street makes more than you.

So, our members are really concerned about what this means and we`re
taking all appropriate steps to make sure that we right this wrong.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Judge, what recourse is to there to take other than the
legal avenue which could take a long time?

JUDGE: Well, that`s what we started with. We started with the legal
avenue and today we filed a contempt of court hearing and we`re hoping to
be in front of the judge that issued the injunction last week. We`re
hoping to be in front of him sometime early next week, and we also filed
two federal lawsuits today as a violation of, you know, our contracts.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the city wants to raise taxes to make this
right for employees? I mean, let`s cut to the chase. Do you think the
city is willing to raise taxes to make it right for the employees?

JUDGE: I think it`s a very complicated issue. It`s been -- we`re
caught in the middle of a basically a conflict between city council and the
mayor, and he wants to raise it 79 percent, and for the first time in his
three-term tenure as mayor, he`s finally got a counsel that is, you know,
checking his policies and his borrowing and making sure he`s not just
running rampant.

So, they have solutions that he doesn`t want to put in, alternative
revenue items. He wants - he has proposed a 78 percent tax increase which
would be crippling on the city, and the counsel has proposed alternative
ideas and he doesn`t want to take them into account.

SCHULTZ: But what we`re seeing is the crumbling of America`s
infrastructure. We don`t have the money now to pay for the essentials, and
the question is how many firefighters are going to become disenchanted, get
out of the business, get out of this line of work and leave communities
vulnerable and then, all of a sudden, we have a new template on how we`re
going to have public employees service our communities in America. That`s
where I think this is the tip of the iceberg.

John Judge, we`ll do the story again. I appreciate your time tonight.
Thank you.

That`s "THE ED SHOW." I`m Ed Schultz.

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.


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