Partisan rifts hinder efforts to improve US voting system

Video: Justice Department investigates new Pa. voter ID law

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   >>> could there be more than three quarter of a million potential voters in pennsylvania that do not have photo i.d.s to? that 99% of all pennsylvania voters have a photo i.d. needed to vote in november. state election officials dispute that number. they say more than 9% of pennsylvanians do not have photo i.d.s. for instance, in pennsylvania -- rather, in philadelphia , specifically, that's 18%. nbc's mara schiavocampo is live in the state capital of harrisburg, where a big rally against the new voter i.d. law begins in just a can coupouple of hours. mara , what do we expect to hear from the demonstrators?

   >> reporter: things are very quiet here. the rally doesn't get started for a couple of hours, but the naacp says they are expecting at least a thousand people to come out and protest this new voter i.d. law. the law was signed into effect earlier this year by the republican governor of the state , and it will require voters to submit a government-issued photo i.d. before casting their ballot. now, vote rights groups are concerned that this will disenfranchise voters, specifically certain groups like minorities, the elderly, poor, and students. groups that traditionally support democratic candidates for president. now, there is also a legal challenge to this law. the aclu has filed a lawsuit. that case gets underway tomorrow. and as you mentioned, the civil rights division of the department of justice has also opened an investigation to make sure that the state is complying with federal votie ing protections. richard?

   >> mara , as we both know, voter i.d. fights happening all across the country, in many states. you're there in pennsylvania , a key battleground state . why is it so important there that this battle is happening? what's being watched?

   >> reporter: yeah, well, you know, like you said, this is happening all over the country in 30 states, but pennsylvania is a battleground state . it did vote for the democratic candidate for president in the last five elections, but many consider it to be a toss-up in this coming election, and people on both sides of the issue think that this issue, voting i.d. laws, can actually have an impact on the outcome of the election. and there was a state republican lawmaker who actually caused quite a bit of controversy by saying pl ining flat-out that these vote r i.d. laws will allow governor romney to win the state of pennsylvania . of course, proponents of the law say this is strictly about cutting down on voter fraud .

   >> mara skoochiavocamposchiavocampo, tha nk you.

   >>> as we mentioned, pennsylvania is among the key battleground states with tough voter i.d. laws. in fact, we did some research and wanted to find out if it is easier to get a gun in pennsylvania than it is to cast your vote. take a look. if you want to vote, you need to be registered no later than 30 days before the election. right after, and right away -- you can actually get a gun registration right after being proved to have a clean background. that's an instant check. now, both require a government-issued photo i.d. , such as a driver's license, as you can see in this column here. the cost, $10 for a photo i.d. it's $5 to register for a gun. now i'll give you the example of florida. another key battleground state , similar to pennsylvania , you need to register about a month wildfire the all vote day. gun permits are issued after an instant background check . now, a government photo i.d. is required for both. that's also similar. the cost of a photo i.d. is $25 in florida. it's $8 for a gun permit. so let's bring in former pennsylvania governor and nbc news political analyst, ed rendell . we're also joined by former newt gingrich spokesman, rick tyler . and governor, since we did have your state as an example there, let's start there. a key battleground state . what's your thought on the comparison of which is easier, voting or getting a gun?

   >> it's obviously easier to get a gun. you can get it instantaneously. there's no instant registration in pennsylvania , even though there is in a few states. but the bottom line is, this is a very bad law that was designed for one purpose. and representative turzai let the cat out of the bag. in the eight years i was governor, i oversaw the secretary of state 's office that was responsible for running elections. two hotly contested presidential elections , we didn't have more than the ten cases in eight years. that's about one and a quarter a year of someone trying to vote on someone else 's name or identification. it was a solution looking for a problem that didn't exist. represent turzai said to a republican state committee convention, he was checking off all the things that the republican legislature had done, and he said, voter i.d. law, check. it's going to allow mitt romney to carry the state of pennsylvania . he let the cat out of the bag. this was politics, pure and simple. in philadelphia , it could disenfranchise close to one out of five voters. in pennsylvania , one out of ten. and a lot of these voters are older people who don't even have the means or the physical ability to get in to a pen dot office to get their voter i.d. a 91-year-old voter who had voted in 70 straight elections, never had a photo i.d. , she went into a pen dot off to get a voter i.d., she had her birth certificate, but that was in her maiden name , and she was now using her married name , they wouldn't accept it. they said get a lawyer and change your name.

   >> richard, you left out of your setup piece that you need a photo i.d. to get a gun anyway. so all the charges you cited you would have to pay to get a gun anyway. so there is no one in pennsylvania or anyone in the united states , for that matter, who doesn't have the means to go and get a photo i.d. they may be -- they may not have a car, but are you telling me, governor, that the democratic party and their operatives or the campaigns in philadelphia will not go and pick up elderly lady and take her to the registration place to get her a photo i.d. so she can vote? and this isn't about politics. and the governor is right. hold on. it is about politics, the governor is right. the only reason to not require a photo i.d. -- and by the way, why don't you go after the libraries too. they require a photo i.d. is because the democrats want to cover up fraud. that's the only reason that you would ever not want to require a photo i.d. at the poll place.

   >> rick, you're being disingenuo disingenuous.

   >> no, i'm not.

   >> during the hearings on this, they were asked to produce instances of fraud. in eight years, they produced less than ten instances of this type of fraud. the problem didn't exist. we had two contentious presidential elections . there was no element, no examples of this in those presidential elections . i mean, it is a joke. it's pure politics.

   >> so what's the joke? why --

   >> let me tell you why it's a joke. in philadelphia , i mean, in pennsylvania , that's 160,000. if the secretary of state --

   >> who can all get an i.d. governor, they can all get an i.d..

   >> who many of them don't have the physical ability to get to a voter registration office, number one.

   >> well, then, they won't have the physical ability --

   >> no, they can walk down the block to get to their voting place. they can't go -- often it's a 10, 15-minute drive --

   >> it's a red herring , governor.

   >> stnit isn't a red herring . if, in fact, in eight years there were ten instances of this fraud, why do you need this for.

   >> answer that and then we'll move on.

   >> i'll answer the question. why do the airlines require a photo i.d. when you get on an airline? must be profiling going on. why do the library require a photo i.d. to get out a book. maybe they're disenfranchising people because they don't want them to be able to read. it is ridiculous, governor.

   >> it is --

   >> governor, i want to show you some data which you're probably familiar, coming from one report. and this has to do with the more than 9% that could be disenfranchised because they don't have photo i.d.s to, that's what the report is showing. but the question is really, is that number overblown? "the new york times" says it's more than likely it's really 2% or 3%.

   >> first of all, it's a 9% figure from the secretary of state 's office. the secretary of state is appointed by the republican governor of pennsylvania . i don't think they'd be deliberately overblowing this issue. that's number one. number two, from our knowledge of the voting population in a place like philadelphia and harrisburg and in places like that, it is not an incorrect number. we have a -- i think we're the second oldest population in the country. most older people don't have cars. in philadelphia , i think we have the lowest car ownership city in america. that means they don't have licenses. they don't fly.

   >> well, apparently they don't have bank accounts either.

   >> they don't fly.

   >> rick, i want to bring up another statistic. we showed it on screen a little bit earlier. it's from the brennan center and shows more than 21 million americans don't have government-issued photo i.d. and as you look at the list here, minorities top the list. a quarter of all african-americans don't have photo i.d.s to, 20% for asians, and that works its way on down. what's your thought about the perception of what voter i.d. drives then and these laws that have been signed and what the perception might be.

   >> people that function in a modern society have to have voter i.d., to open a bank account , to get a driver's license, to get a firearm. you have to have a voter i.d. i find it very hard to believe that all of these poeople don't have bank accounts and are working on --

   >> but you see the groups outline there had.

   >> but it's not a trouble to get an i.d. if you can't, i'm sure someone will be glad to take you.

   >> to show you how absurd that is.

   >> we have to let it go there.

   >> it's 160,000 people in pennsylvania .

   >> we've had a good conversation, rick tyler , governor rendell, thank you so much for your time. i hope we can continue this conversation at a later date.

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