updated 8/7/2012 5:56:00 PM ET 2012-08-07T21:56:00

Guests: John Garamendi, Tom Perriello, Ted Strickland, Lizz Winstead, Susan Del Percio, Ari Berman, Derrick Pitts, Mark Potok


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC ANCHOR: Ninety-two days before the 2012 election.
Republicans are calling Harry Reid a dirty liar and Mitt Romney is using
America`s heroes to tell a real dirty lie in Ohio?

Another horrific mass murder at the hands of a lone gunman. New
details that you will only get here tonight.

This is THE ED SHOW. Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: I`m not going to respond to a dirty
liar.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The hits keep coming from Senator Harry Reid,
leader Pelosi and the White House. Tonight, Congressman John Garamendi and
Tom Perriello of the Center for American progress on Mitt Romney`s never-
ending tax nightmare.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Any effort to impede the
right of our military members overseas or here domestically voting would be
an extraordinary violation.

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney is hiding behind the military to suppress the
vote in Ohio. Former Ohio Governor Ted Strickland has the latest.

And the president comes out for renewing the assault weapons ban in
the wake of the massacre in Wisconsin. Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty
Law Center says his group has been tracking the alleged white supremacist
for 10 years. Mark Potok joins me tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us, folks. Thanks for watching. It`s
good to be back with you.

Republicans have a new public enemy number one and his name is Harry
Reid. The Senate majority leader started a firestorm in Washington last
week when he said he had a source that told him that Mitt Romney didn`t pay
any taxes for 10 years. The chairman of the Republican Party kept the fire
burning on the talking heads.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRIEBUS: I`m not going to respond to a dirty liar who hasn`t filed a
single page of tax returns himself, complains about people with money but
lives in the Ritz-Carlton here down the street. So if that`s on the
agenda, I`m not going to go there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Across the airwaves, Republicans could not contain their
outrage over what Harry Reid said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: What he did on the floor of
the Senate is so out of bounds, I think he`s lying about his statement.

ANN COULTER, CONSERVATIVE PUNDIT: This is Obama`s modus operandi.
And unfortunately Romney isn`t divorced. Hopefully his vice presidential
candidate won`t be divorced. It`s always dirty politics.

GEORGE WILL, CONSERVATIVE PUNDIT: Harry Reid doesn`t have any
evidence, either. This is McCarthyism for the desert.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Even the members of the mainstream media were in disbelief
over the allegations coming from the Senate majority leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Harry Reid doubled
down on this. He went on the floor of the Senate and said, well, you know,
it`s out there that he hasn`t paid 10 years. It`s only out there because
Harry Reid said it two days ago without any evidence whatsoever.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ANCHOR, ABC`S "THIS WEEK": I take it from your
answer you`re not going to repudiate Senator Reid`s charge?

CANDY CROWLEY, ANCHOR, CNN`S "STATE OF THE NATION": If Chicago wanted
Reid to stop, he would stop, but Chicago doesn`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: If Republicans hoped a full force push back on Harry Reid
would shut him up, well, they were mistaken. In an interview with
"Politico" Senator Reid`s chief of staff called the Republican noisemakers
a bunch of cowards and henchmen for Romney.

Hey, liberals, are they fighting good enough now?

Reid himself weighed in today saying, "The whole controversy would end
very quickly if Mitt Romney would just release his income tax returns just
like everybody else that runs for president."

Today marked the fifth time Senator Reid reiterated his initial
charges. He refuses to slow down and the president`s top advisers are not
asking Reid to hit the brakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR OBAMA ADVISOR: It was Governor Romney`s father
who pioneered the release of tax returns when he ran for president, gave
out 12 years of tax returns because he said one year can be misleading.
Why don`t they just put this rest? What is it that he`s hiding?

ROBERT GIBBS, OBAMA ADVISOR: I have never seen anyone jump through
more hoops to say, A, that somebody`s lying but also not put out a document
that would prove what the real truth is.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Only Senator Reid knows his
source, which he has discussed, and I would refer you to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And of course there`s a big reason why no one in the
Democratic Party is telling Harry Reid to reveal his source or keep his
mouth shut. Here`s why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: At the end of the day, you come to
a point where you basically give a little bit more and you move forward.
He`s got to do that. Two years is not enough, obviously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That was top Republican strategist Ed Rollins. I mean after
all the debate over Reid`s comments, members of the Republican Party are
still calling on Mitt Romney to release more tax returns. Mitt Romney is
the only person who can actually prove Harry Reid is wrong. All he needs
to do is release his tax returns. Reince Priebus said Lindsey Graham out
there calling Harry Reid a liar? Isn`t that dirty politics? What`s the
truth?

But we don`t know if Reid has told any lies, do we? If the GOP needs
a reminder about telling lies for political gain, they should watch this
videotape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: We should not have a government
program that determines who is going to pull the plug on grandma.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Aha, Senator Grassley`s lie about death panels, pulling the
plug on grandma almost killed the health care reform bill in America and it
cost many members of Congress their jobs. It was an outright lie.

And here is Governor Rick Scott of Florida talking about the stimulus
package.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: She clearly believes in Obamacare, she
clearly believes in the stimulus and we know the stimulus has not created
one private sector job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, of course we know that the stimulus created up to 3.3
million jobs according to the Congressional Budget Office, but Governor
Rick Scott of Florida lied and the Republicans kept the lie just going.
Just the other day Mitt Romney continued to openly lie about President
Obama`s jobs record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: We listened to him over the last several months. He gave a
major speech in his economic plans to get people working and there was
nothing new.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yes, there was nothing new except an entire bill called the
American Jobs Act. It would create nearly two million jobs, but
Republicans continue to say that President Obama has no jobs plan. In
fact, it seems like the only time Republicans have told the truth in the
last two years is when Mitch McConnell, Senate leader, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: Our top political priority
over the next two years should be to deny President Obama a second term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Republicans can continue to call Harry Reid a dirty liar.
The Senate leader made it clear that he is not going to stay silent.
Instead of drawing more attention to Senator Reid`s comments, maybe it`s
time for Republicans to take a long look in the mirror and see what dirty
politics is really all about and what it looks like. You get to be the
judge in 92 days.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, is Harry Reid telling the truth about his source? Text A for
yes, text B for no to 622639. You can always leave a comment at our blog
at ed.msnbc.com. We`ll bring you the results later in the show.

And we should keep in mind how often if you`re a news consumer do you
hear commentators over there. Some people say, a lot of Americans think, I
was talking to some people the other day. I mean we`re in the news culture
in America where we could pass it off on anybody, but all of a sudden, the
Republicans are all bent out of shape. They have just got to have the
source.

Well, Harry Reid is a Senate majority leader who has been around a
long time. If you understand business, especially in the accounting world,
there`s a lot of people that like to get close to senators and they say
things.

I think Harry Reid is telling the truth. I don`t think Mitt Romney`s
paid any taxes in the last 10 years, and this is a story the Republicans
don`t want out there at all because if it gets out there, there`s going to
be this big clamor across America, yes, now it`s about tax fairness and the
wealthy need to pay their fair share and there shouldn`t be all these tax
havens and loopholes.

Yes. That`s a story they don`t want.

I`m joined tonight by Congressman John Garamendi of California.

John, great to have you with us tonight. Appreciate your time,
Congressman. I guess I should ask you, do you have a problem with what
Senator Harry Reid has said as of late? What do you make of it?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think Harry Reid is on
to it. What`s really, really important here is that we understand how
Romney views tax policy. Those tax returns will tell us exactly how he
views tax policy. We need to know that because after all, he wants to be
president. He will sign tax bills. Are those the tax bills that will send
jobs offshore? Hide money, avoid taxes, use every loophole possible? Or
even increase those loopholes?

It`s really important for the American public to understand what is in
Romney`s heart and mind as it goes to taxes. The tax returns will tell us
exactly that.

SCHULTZ: House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said this about Senator
Reid to the "Huffington Post." She said, "Harry Reid made a statement that
is true. Somebody told him, it`s a fact."

I mean, why shouldn`t we believe Harry Reid? I mean, he has said it.
Is it on the onus now of Mr. Governor Romney to prove that he has paid his
taxes?

GARAMENDI: Well, absolutely the case. The issues before him is not
Harry Reid that we`re talking about here. We`re talking about a man that
wants to be the next president. Show us your taxes so that we can see how
you look at tax policy. Are you all for reducing your taxes at every
conceivable way even though you`re a multimillionaire?

That`s not good tax policy for America. We need to understand this
man and those tax returns will tell us what is on his mind with regard to
tax policy, which is the number one issue in this campaign. Tax policy.

SCHULTZ: And Congressman, 61 percent by PPP polling, 61 percent of
independent voters want to see the tax returns. Gallup numbers, 54 percent
of Americans want to see Romney returns. Is this something that the
Democrats are going to ride all the way to the election?

GARAMENDI: Well, we certainly ought to ride it because this is about
the guy that wants to be president. We need to know. Americans need to
know what is it -- what is he all about? Where does he hide his money? We
already know he has secret accounts in the Bahamas and in Switzerland.
What`s that all about? How much money is he really stashing away there?
How much in tax income is he avoiding?

This is into the really heart and mind of a guy that wants to be
president. Show us your stuff, Mr. Romney. Tell us about yourself so we
can make a decision about --

SCHULTZ: Yes.

GARAMENDI: -- who we want as president.

SCHULTZ: Congressman John Garamendi, great to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

GARAMENDI: Sure. Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Let`s turn now to Tom Perriello, president and CEO of the
Center for American Progress Action Fund, former Democratic congressman
from Virginia.

Tom, your thoughts on this. Are Republicans making a mistake by
continuing to take on Harry Reid?

TOM PERRIELLO, CAP ACTION FUND: The first thing you learn as a
candidate is that the vote belongs to the American people. No one is
entitled to that position. Mitt Romney is asking the American people to
hire him as president and commander-in-chief, and going into that job
interview, saying you, my future employer, are not entitled to know about
my past.

That is just not the kind of arrogance that the American voters are
looking for. And here`s a guy who -- from what we already know, has
proposed a $2,000 increase in taxes on middle class families. That`s
analysis from a group he`s called an independent third party set of
analysts. Increase taxes on the middle class while he gives himself a $4.5
million tax kickback. So I think the American voters are deciding who they
want to hire for president for the next four years. And they`re entitled
to know what they want to know.

And the American people are asking this question. What were you up to
with the secret accounts? Why is it that you are hiding this when every
other president in the modern era has been willing to do this?

SCHULTZ: Here`s what Romney surrogate Donald Trump said today, said,
"an extremely credible source has called my office and told me that Barack
Obama`s birth certificate is a fraud." Is he suggesting that maybe Mitt
Romney should produce fraudulent tax returns as kind of a jaded way of
looking at it, but who benefits from another round of birther talk?

PERRIELLO: Well, I`ll tell you, you know, what people are asking is
what does it mean for them at the kitchen table. What does it mean for my
family, trying to pay my bills, when they know Mitt Romney has proposed
packing the buck to the middle class. That`s so often gets kicked in the
stomach and --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: But is this just -- Tom, isn`t this the worst possible time
that the Republicans could have a wealthy to the till guy running for
president because if he has all these shelters, it`s going to open up a
whole Pandora`s box of conversation in America about tax fairness. He
can`t win on this. Wealthy people can`t win on this.

Do you think that there`s people behind Romney saying hey, look, you
cannot release your taxes or is this just Mitt Romney?

PERRIELLO: Well, you know, for the first election of my lifetime,
we`re not having a debate about how big or small government should be but
how fair should the economy be, and I don`t Mitt Romney is really the
poster child for that debate. I think the working and middle class in this
country has been getting it harder and harder over the last generation and
a half.

Here we finally have a conversation, the great recession has really
woken up the elites in both parties, to just how challenging this economy
is right now.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

PERRIELLO: I think President Obama and the Democrats have heard that
cry from main streets across America. Mitt Romney is doubling down on the
strategies that got us into it. And when you have a guy who is not willing
to release his own taxes, who`s put out a tax proposal that hits the middle
class with a tax increase while giving people like himself a $4.5 million
tax cut, that`s not what main street is looking for right now.

SCHULTZ: So --

PERRIELLO: Even if it makes Wall Street pretty happy.

SCHULTZ: So the best thing the Republicans have right now is to call
Harry Reid a dirty liar, and a guy who made a living boxing early in his
life is ready to go another round. I`m loving it.

Tom Perriello, thanks for joining us tonight.

Remember to answer tonight`s questionnaire at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @edshow and on Facebook. We want
to know what you think.

Coming up, the Romney campaign says President Obama is trying to take
away early voting privileges from members of the military in Ohio? The
problem, well, that`s a lie. Former Governor Ted Strickland, he`s got the
story. He`s with us next on THE ED SHOW. Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Mitt Romney, John Kasich, and FOX News are hiding
behind the military to try to suppress the vote in Ohio. Former Ohio
governor Ted Strickland joins me next.

The president makes news on gun control following the second mass
murder in two weeks. We`ll tell you how far he`s willing to go to stop the
violence.

And later, astronomer Derrick Pitts on one of the greatest
accomplishments in history of space exploration. Paid for by the American
taxpayer.

Share your thoughts with us on Facebook and on Twitter using the hash
tag "ED SHOW." We`re coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Any effort to impede the right of our military members
overseas or here domestically in voting would be an extraordinary violation
of the trust that we should have for those who serve so valiantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Once again, Mitt Romney doesn`t have the facts. You see,
Ohio is a must-win for Mitt Romney. And with President Obama ahead in the
polls, the Romney campaign, what are they doing? They`re getting
desperate.

Romney is accusing the president of taking away early voting
privileges from members of the United States military in Ohio? But that`s
not what really is happening here at all. The Obama campaign is suing the
state of Ohio over it`s restrictive early voting law. The campaign is
seeking to extend voting time for everybody in Ohio. All Ohioans including
military voters. In other words, the Obama campaign wants servicemen and
women to keep their early voting privileges and offer those privileges to
all voters in the state of Ohio.

But you won`t know that by watching FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS: If President Obama gets his way, the special
voting rights of some of America`s finest will be eliminated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Really? Governor John Kasich, a former FOX News employee,
signed the Republican-backed legislation reducing early voting privileges
with the exception of service members. Obama campaign adviser David
Axelrod is calling out Romney and the FOX News tactics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AXELROD: What that lawsuit called for is not to deprive the military
of the right to vote on the final weekend of the campaign. Of course they
should have that right. What that suit is about is whether the rest of
Ohio should have the same right. And I think it`s shameful that Governor
Romney would hide behind our servicemen and women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m joined tonight by former Governor Ted Strickland of
Ohio, and currently an Obama 2012 campaign co-chair.

Ted, great to have you with us tonight. You know, this is --

(CROSSTALK)

TED STRICKLAND, OBAMA 2012 CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIR: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: You bet. This is one of these stories where two sides are
saying different things, and who is the public going to believe? In the
meantime, you`ve got 15 military groups agreeing with Mitt Romney. Is he
winning the messaging war on this?

STRICKLAND: Well, let me say, Ed, FOX News and Mitt Romney should
really hang their heads in shame, in shame because they are hiding behind
our military. Making false accusations. The Cleveland Plain Dealer has
analyzed the Obama -- the Romney claim and has said it is absolutely false.

This is the truth. Early voting in Ohio had been permitted in the
past on the weekend leading to the November election. And the Republicans
are trying to restrict that weekend voting for everyone except the
military. Now, 93,000 Ohioans voted during that last weekend of voting in
the last presidential election.

This is a blatant attempt to keep Ohioans from exercising their right
to vote on those days leading up to November 6th. It has nothing to do
with depriving the military of their right to vote. Contrary, the Obama
and the Ohio Democratic Party believes that all Ohioans military and
nonmilitary should be able to register their votes during that weekend
before the November election.

But for Mitt Romney to imply that the president is trying to keep our
military men and women from voting during that period of time is a shameful
accusation. He ought to hang his head in shame.

You know, there are a lot of things that we do in politics, a lot of
accusations we make. But the military should not be used as a political
football.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

STRICKLAND: And that`s exactly what Mitt Romney is doing in this
case.

SCHULTZ: Governor Strickland, do you think Mitt Romney has all the
facts? Do you think that he is willfully going out saying something that
is totally incorrect and knows it?

STRICKLAND: Well, if he has the facts and he continues to say what he
is saying, then he is a dishonest person. If he doesn`t have the facts,
then he should hold his staff accountable for not briefing him
appropriately. But the accusations they`re making are absolutely, totally
false.

The president, all of us, want our servicemen and women to be able to
vote during that weekend. We want all Ohioans --

SCHULTZ: Yes.

STRICKLAND: -- to be able to vote during that weekend period of time.
And for Mitt Romney to imply otherwise is just a dishonest act. And by
now, he should know the truth, Ed. This has been discussed. He should
know the truth by now, and he should recant what he has accused the
president of doing now that he has the truth.

SCHULTZ: Sure. And that there are some military veteran
organizations like Vote Vets, they`re saying that obviously Romney is doing
the wrong thing and misstating the situation.

STRICKLAND: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: But what -- what kind of impact, what does this mean for the
law on Election Day? What does it mean to voters?

STRICKLAND: Well, I think it means that, as is the case in many
states, the Republicans are trying to take measures that will limit the
ability of Americans to freely cast their votes. We`re seeing voter
suppression take place all across the country.

SCHULTZ: Sure.

STRICKLAND: And it`s -- and it`s happening here in Ohio, of course.

SCHULTZ: And so what does that mean for President --

STRICKLAND: Why not, Ed?

SCHULTZ: What does that mean for President Obama`s ground game?

STRICKLAND: Well, it means we`ve got to get our people out to vote
early, as early as possible. And we need to inform people of their rights,
and we need to pursue this court case. The federal court will have a
hearing on this matter, I think, on August 15th. And it is my hope that
the court will protect the people`s right to vote during that three-day
period leading up to November 6th.

SCHULTZ: And that of course would be acting on the Obama campaign
lawsuit is what you`re talking about there. OK, so that`s coming up on
August 15th.

STRICKLAND: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: So it`ll be --

STRICKLAND: But Ed, what really bothers me, Ed, it is a blatant
attempt on the part of the Romney campaign.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

STRICKLAND: To imply that the president would try to deprive our
service men and women of their ability to vote during that period of time.
It is absolutely false. It is reprehensible. Mitt Romney should know
better. If he doesn`t know better, he should get educated.

SCHULTZ: Well, we`re going to follow up on --

(CROSSTALK)

STRICKLAND: And --

SCHULTZ: We`re going to follow up on these --

STRICKLAND: That`s what we`re facing.

SCHULTZ: OK. We`re going to follow up on these 15 military groups that
are agreeing with Romney and find out why they`re agreeing with Romney if
they`ve got it so wrong.

Former Governor Ted Strickland of Ohio, great to have you with us
tonight. .

STRICKLAND: Yes.

SCHULTZ: Appreciate your time. Thank you.

Coming up, Harry Reid claims Mitt Romney didn`t pay any taxes for 10
years. Meanwhile, Republicans are calling him a dirty liar?

The panel will weigh in on Reid versus Romney next.

And tragedy in Wisconsin. As a peaceful community tries to pick up
the pieces, we`re learning more about the man who killed six people in a
Sikh temple. Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center will join me.

Stay tuned. You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: The word`s out that he hasn`t
paid any taxes for 10 years. Let him prove that he has paid taxes because
he hasn`t. We already know from one partial tax return that he gave us he
has money hidden in Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, and a Swiss bank account.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Harry Reid getting after it.

Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Senate majority leader Harry Reid, you know, he says he`s got a guy
who tells him that Mitt Romney didn`t pay any taxes for the last 10 years.
Meanwhile, Republicans are calling Senator Reid a dirty liar.

For more, let`s turn to our panel, comedian Lizz Winstead with us
tonight, and author of the book "Lizz, Free or Die," contributing writer
for "The Nation," Ari Berman, who is also the author of "Herding Donkeys,"
and Republican strategist Susan Del Percio.

Susan, is Harry Reid a dirty liar?

SUSAN DEL PERCIO, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I don`t know, but Harry Reid is
really playing old school dirty politics by doing this. And his story has
been changing, which is amazing. First he said, I can`t say for certain.
Then he gets up on the floor of the United States Senate and then makes a
claim. Then he comes back with another interview and says, oh, well, lots
of people are saying that.

What is it? This guy, you know, he can`t get his story straight, and
frankly, it`s inappropriate. It goes beyond the pale, especially on the
floor of the U.S. Senate.

SCHULTZ: Lizz?

WINSTEAD: Well, you know, if we didn`t hear throughout the course of
this past couple years Allen West saying, oh, there`s 80 Communists in the
House of Representatives, Michele Bachmann accusing Keith Ellison and
Hillary Clinton`s aide that they`re part of the Muslim Brotherhood -- I
often -- I just wonder if this is one of those things where Harry Reid
finally said, we have been sitting through a political climate where we
have heard the president`s a Muslim, show us the birth certificate. What
if I just say --

(CROSS TALK)

WINSTEAD: Hold on. We finally just saying, we have been asked to
prove that the president`s not a Muslim and all this stuff for so long.
Why not -- and I`m just saying it`s a strategy. I`m not saying it`s right
or wrong. Put something out there and say prove it.

BERMAN: But I think Harry Reid is playing Jedi mind tricks on Mitt
Romney, because the media had kind of decided that they were done with the
tax return story, even though Romney really hadn`t released very much info
about his tax returns. Now it`s back in the news. We`re talking about it.

And Harry Reid knows every day we`re talking about Mitt Romney`s tax
returns is a bad day for Mitt Romney. The onus is on Romney to clear this
up. Susan, it`s very easy for Romney to clear this up. He releases more
tax returns, we get a thorough accounting of his taxes. We`ll know what
tax rate he paid. But he`s not going to do that, because we know there`s
damning information in those taxes.

DEL PERCIO: But a few things. One is I call out Republicans when
they do inappropriate things, too. Something is wrong, it`s wrong, it`s a
bipartisan wrong, as far as I`m concerned. And the debate about Romney`s
taxes is a valid one. But what Harry Reid did was not appropriate.

SCHULTZ: Says he`s got a source.

DEL PERCIO: He`s --

SCHULTZ: Sometimes media people don`t reveal their sources.

DEL PERCIO: I understand, but he says a source that he is not certain
that it`s true. And that`s especially the fine line. He -- that source
did not confirm to him, prove to him, nor did he say he believed him 100
percent.

SCHULTZ: He went on the Senate floor and said that he hadn`t paid
taxes in 10 years. He felt strong enough about that to put it in the
Senate record.

DEL PERCIO: That`s based on a investor who has -- we don`t even know
if he ever saw the taxes. It seems a little odd. My point is he went on
the floor and basically lied because he doesn`t know it to be true.

WINSTEAD: But that`s the game that the Republicans have played
forever. Michele Bachmann goes on Chris Matthews and says we need to
investigate Congress to root out the un-American activity. I`m sorry --

DEL PERCIO: And that was wrong. That was wrong.

SCHULTZ: I`m glad that you`re calling them out, because guess what, I
didn`t hear John Boehner -- these people had to be pushed. And the first
time --

SCHULTZ: Is the media being fair to Harry Reid here? I think that`s
the point here. It seems to be a double standard on how to handle it.

BERMAN: I think there is a double standards. There was just a story
in "Bloomberg News" today about Bain Capital buying a telephone company in
Italy, not paying any taxes on it, rerouting the money to Luxembourg.
Romney, we know, has offshore bank accounts. We know that he has a huge
IRA, an enormous amount of money in his IRA that is tax exempt. So where
there`s smoke, there`s fire here.

That`s why people are talking about. If Romney didn`t have all these
skeletons in the closet, we would not take it as seriously.

DEL PERCIO: You`ve got to give it to Harry Reid. He has us talking
about this stuff and not the economy. That is good old fashioned dirty
politics at work.

SCHULTZ: What if it comes out that he hasn`t paid taxes in 10 years.
What reason does Harry Reid have to lie, because he has not released his
taxes? President Obama is winging this right back into his stump speech.
Spoke to supporters in Connecticut just within the last few hours and had
this to say about Romney`s tax plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: An independent, non-partisan organization crunched the
numbers. They determined that Governor Romney`s plan would effectively
raise taxes on middle class families with children by an average of 2,000
dollars. He would ask the middle class to pay more in taxes, so that he
could give another 250,000 dollar tax cut to people making more than three
million dollars a year.

(BOOING)

OBAMA: It`s like Robin Hood in reverse. It`s Romney-hood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: "Romney-hood." That`s a good one. Ari, how damaging is
this to Romney`s tax proposal and his plan? It just keeps the focus on it.
And if he were to release his taxes, he would show that clearly he`s at
advantage with the system, and a lot of wealthy people are probably telling
him -- probably telling him don`t release it, because this will open up a
whole Pandora`s Box.

BERMAN: I disagree with Susan. This is about the economy. What
Romney has done in the past tells us about the kind of president he would
be. The fact is he wants to cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans and
raise them for other people. He wants to cut taxes for the ultra, ultra
wealthy and then pay for it by cutting benefits for working people.

(CROSS TALK)

SCHULTZ: Will you join the chorus of Republicans who are saying that
he should release more taxes?

DEL PERCIO: I think he`s releasing two years and that`s absolutely
fine.

SCHULTZ: That`s it?

DEL PERCIO: What`s the number, five, 10, 12?

I keep hearing all these magic numbers.

SCHULTZ: You think two years is enough?

DEL PERCIO: Yes, I do. It`s been enough for a lot of people for
many, many years. I don`t understand --

SCHULTZ: His father did how many?

DEL PERCIO: But that was his father. But what did other people do?

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: Bill Kristol said he needed at least seven or eight years.
Right now Mitt Romney couldn`t get confirmed for a Senate post and he wants
to be president of the United States, a guy who would put those nominees to
be confirmed by the Senate. So it`s an incredible double standard here
that he`s playing.

(CROSS TALK)

WINSTEAD: But I think the double standard is everybody who has run
for president has released more than two years of taxes. That`s just fair.

DEL PERCIO: John McCain didn`t. John McCain released two years.

(CROSS TALK)

DEL PERCIO: But it was deemed acceptable.

WINSTEAD: But here`s the thing, don`t you want to know why Mitt
Romney has 100 million dollars in an IRA? I do. I want to know how that
works, because it doesn`t work for regular folks. That`s a giant thing
that exists. I think everybody deserves to know that, because I think --

SCHULTZ: Lizz Winstead, Ari Berman, Susan Del Percio, thanks for
joining us tonight. Appreciate it.

A lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW. Stay with
us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re treating this as a domestic terrorist type
incident. Therefore, the FBI has the resources needed to help investigate
that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: An alleged white supremacist is accused of killing six in
Wisconsin. The Southern Poverty Law Center says they have been tracking
this guy for 10 years. Mark Potok joins me next.

And your tax dollars in action on the surface of Mars.

Coming up, Derrick Pitts of the Franklin Institute explains why
Curiosity`s landing on Mars was such a huge accomplishment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I think all of us recognize that these kinds of terrible
tragic events are happening with too much regularity for us not to do some
soul searching and to examine additional ways that we can reduce violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: President Obama earlier today discussing yet another mass
shooting. This time, in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. White House spokesman Jay
Carney says the president supports reinstating the assault weapons ban, but
Congress is unlikely to act.

Authorities say 40-year-old Wade Michael Page opened fire Sunday
morning at a Sikh temple, killed six people, critically wounded three
others, before police shot him to death.

Page, an Army veteran, was discharged after six years in the military
for a drinking problem. He used a nine millimeter semiautomatic hand gun
purchased legally. He also had ties to the white supremacist movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest question we have, is this a hate
crime? What did we do wrong?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Today, federal agents searched a North Carolina house where
Page lived looking for clues and a motive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re treating this as a domestic terrorist type
incident. And therefore, the FBI has the resources needed to help
investigate that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: A 2009 Homeland Security report warned us about this type of
tragedy. "Lone wolves embracing violent right wing extremist ideology are
the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States." At the
time, conservatives mocked the report. Michelle Malkin called it "one of
the most embarrassingly shoddy pieces of propaganda I`d ever read out of
the DHS."

Tonight, six people are dead, three others are fighting for their
lives and a community is left to pick up the pieces.

Let`s turn to Mark Potok, Southern Poverty Law Center. Mark, good to
have you with us on THE ED SHOW this evening. Your group, it has been
reported, has been tracking Wade Michael Page for a decade. Tracking him.
What does that mean?

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Well, basically, what it
means is that we noticed him when he joined the white power music scene.
In the year 2000, it turns out, he left his native state of Colorado on his
motorcycle, as he told one interview on a white supremacist website out
there, and basically headed into the music scene.

He started to act as lead singer and guitarist for a number of these
different hate rock `n` roll groups, some of them very well known groups,
groups like Intimidation One, another group called Blue Eyed Devils. What
in some ways was most interesting was when in 2005 he started his own
group. This group was called End Apathy.

And in an interview with white supremacist website, he talked about
what that End Apathy meant. Basically, what he was saying is people in the
white supremacist world talk a lot but don`t act much. He at least wanted
to give a name to his band that would suggest that movement people should
get out there and do something.

(CROSS TALK)

POTOK: It`s worth saying, he didn`t specifically talk about violence.

SCHULTZ: What do you know about the people he was hanging around? If
he was in a band, he has associates. What do you know about them and what
are you going to find out?

POTOK: When we talk about these bands, we`re really talking about
bands with neo-Nazi believes. These are bands that, as a general matter,
sing about murdering Jews, murdering black people, murdering so-called race
mixers and so on. His friends were very much like he was. One of his band
mates, and in fact a roommate of his at one point, was a guy who was a
member of the Confederate Hammer Skins. The Confederate Hammer Skins are
part of the larger Hammer Skin nation.

This is, you know, the scariest Skinhead group out there, really a
terrifying and violent group of Skinheads, who have wrought all kinds of
havoc around the country. You know, this was not a man who was on the
fringes of the scene. This is a man who was very much in the middle of the
white power music world and rubbing shoulders with some of the worst people
out there.

SCHULTZ: Mark, the Sikh community has been targeted since 9/11. Why?

POTOK: Well, I think almost entirely by mistake. These are the
mistakes, at least in my opinion, of extremely stupid people. The reality
is, three Sikhs were murdered right after 9/11. And as far as I understand
it, in each case, they were mistaken for Muslims. I think that`s what`s
going on here. I don`t have anything to prove that.

But you know, when you look at white supremacists propaganda, as we do
every day of the week down here, you virtually never see writings or other
propaganda about evil Sikhs. It`s all about Muslims. As I say, I can`t
prove it. I feel certain that this guy thought he was targeting Muslims.
He looked at Sikhs, saw people with turbans on their heads, with beards,
and you know, that meant wicked foreigners to him. And apparently he
acted.

SCHULTZ: Today, the White House says it`s in favor of reinstating the
assault weapons ban. Will that help curb these kinds of attacks?

POTOK: Apparently in this case, it wouldn`t have helped at all. As
you reported earlier, you know, this man legally bought a nine millimeter
weapon, which is not an assault weapon. You know, would it have helped in
Denver? I think pretty clearly it seems that it would have.

So obviously, this is going to help spur conversation on that very
issue, on gun control.

SCHULTZ: Mark Potok, Southern Poverty Law Center, thank you for
joining us tonight.

Coming up, it`s the most advanced spacecraft ever sent to another
planet, and a shining example of what government can do. Astronomer
Derrick Pitts will fill us in on the Rover Curiosity. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. I would like to take a moment
tonight to say thank you to all of you wonderful Americans out there. My
wife is battling ovarian cancer and on behalf of my wife and family, I
would like to thank all of you for your outpouring of support, love, and
prayers.

The power of prayer is very strong. And it`s been a rough two weeks
for our family, but I want you to know that my wife is a woman of faith.
And she is a woman of tremendous strength. And you gave her much strength
and really helped in her recovery after the operation. It`s going to be a
long recovery with chemotherapy coming.

She`s going to beat this disease, ovarian cancer. And with your help,
we certainly appreciate it. I can`t begin to name the people across the
country who have just shown a tremendous outpouring of love and support for
our family and Wendy. And Wendy certainly appreciates it.

And there are a lot of people watching this broadcast tonight that
have fought cancer and won. And we`re going to be one of those families.
And my wife is going to win this battle. And we certainly appreciate very
much all your support, all your prayers.

And Dr. Stanhope from the Mayo Clinic saved my wife`s life. And I am
deeply indebted, my wife, my family, all of us. You know, when cancer
strikes your family and your spouse, it just stops you.

I mean, it stops you right in your tracks. You don`t know what time
of day it is. You don`t know -- the only thing that matters is getting
better. And when you get e-mails and text messages and phone messages from
people that you haven`t heard from for a long time, telling their story of
survival, it means a lot.

I just want to say thank you tonight. Wendy wants to say thank you.
It`s about Wendy. It`s about her return to good health and she will do it.
Thank you for your prayers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s good. Touchdown confirmed. We`re safe on
Mars.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Those were NASA engineers in
Mission Control finding out the Curiosity Rover safely landing on Mars.
Curiosity is the largest and most advanced spacecraft ever sent to another
planet. The Rover weighs 2,000 pounds. It`s equipped with 20-inch wheels,
17 cameras, lab instruments, and even a laser to zap rocks so they can be
studied.

The 2.5 billion dollar mission involved 5,000 people from 37 states
and 10 years of work. After traveling 350 million miles in eight months,
these pictures were snapped of Curiosity last night as it approached the
Martian surface.

NASA described the landing as, quote, "seven minutes of terror." It
involved a parachute, rocket boosters, and finally, a crane to lower the
rover onto Mars. After a tense seven minutes, curiosity sent back its
first pictures of the Martian surface.

NASA says it expects more high-def color pictures later in the week.
The Curiosity`s success is a shining example of American greatness. It
just goes to show what you can accomplish in this country with a well-
funded, government backed program.

Joining me tonight is Derrick Pitts, chief astronomer at the Franklin
Institute in Philadelphia, and designated by NASA as an astrobiology
ambassador.

Derrick, great to have you with us tonight. Exciting times for NASA
and America and the future of space exploration, no question about it. But
how big a deal is this? What does this really mean?

DERRICK PITTS, CHIEF ASTRONOMER, FRANKLIN INSTITUTE: Ed, what I think
this means is that it shows that NASA is still pushing hard in its efforts
to completely identify and describe everything we can about the solar
system with an ambitious program that uses equipment that is absolutely
cutting edge and works extraordinarily well.

SCHULTZ: What`s the ultimate goal here? What do we want to find out?
What are they looking for?

PITTS: In this particular case, what`s being looked for -- what the
exploration is about on Mars with this particular rover is they`re really
looking to find possible environments, places that might have been an
environment where organic materials may have existed that would identify a
location where life may have developed at one time, or might be the kind of
environment where life could develop on Mars still today.

SCHULTZ: Tell us about what you think the seven minutes were like
that the NASA engineers referred to and the risk involved in all of this.

PITTS: Oh, talk about a risky endeavor. This was the most hair-
raising, nail-biting entry situation that has ever been devised, but it`s
exactly what needed to be done for this kind of spacecraft coming in. It
was seven minutes of terror in two ways. It takes 14 minutes for a signal
to get from Mars to Earth. The first seven minutes of terror were the
spacecraft coming in through the atmosphere, having to deploy the
parachute, set off the retro rockets, get rid of the heat shield, get rid
of the back shield, all of those kinds of things with split-second
precision. And it all had to be done absolutely accurately or else there
could have been disaster.

That`s the first seven minutes. The second seven minutes was having
to wait seven minutes until they got the signal from Mars to know that the
spacecraft was on the surface safely.

SCHULTZ: What did you think when you saw the engineers celebrating?
I mean, 10 years is a long time to be working on a project and to have it
go right.

PITTS: Yes. I was elated for them that the work that they had put
into this, the effort that they had put into this had paid off so well.
This is a perfect example of impeccable engineering, ingenuity, confidence
on their part, that this could actually be done. All of the parts and
pieces had been tested, but the integrated system had never been tested
before.

And you`ve got to imagine, Ed, that these guys really had some nerve
to believe that this could work. But it`s their confidence as engineers,
knowing what they`re doing and the belief of the group that they work with,
that made it possible for this to happen.

SCHULTZ: And quickly, why did they pick the Gale Crater?

PITTS: They picked Gale Crater because it`s the most likely place
where they might be able to find organics in what looked like it had been
an ancient stream bed, to identify an environment that may have been
conducive for life early in the history of Mars.

SCHULTZ: Interesting. Derrick Pitts, thanks so much for joining us
on THE ED SHOW.

PITTS: My pleasure, Ed. My best wishes for your wife`s recovery.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate that. That`s THE ED
SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good
evening, Rachel.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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