updated 10/11/2012 12:29:35 PM ET 2012-10-11T16:29:35

THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ
October 10, 2012

Guests: Terry O`Neill, Bob Shrum, John Nichols, Robert Reich, Karen Finney

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

Twenty-seven days until the 2012 election and Mitt Romney is proving
to be a man without conviction. He shakes the etch-a-sketch yet again on
women`s rights.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Wow. Here`s old moderate
Mitt. Where you been, boy? I missed you all these last two years.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): President Clinton rises again as Mitt Romney
implodes over a woman`s right to choose.

Tonight, Terry O`Neill of the National Organization for Women on Mitt
Romney`s war on women etch-a-sketch. Bob Shrum on the candidate without a
core.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It`s very important for
folks to just make sure that they understand that as long as people stay
focused, we will win this thing.

SCHULTZ: The president is rallying the troops as Joe Biden gets ready
to take on lyin` Ryan.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Trust me, I come
from Detroit West. We know we need a healthy auto sector.

SCHULTZ: Howard Fineman and John Nichols have the debate preview.

And from the coal mine owner to the real estate mogul, CEOs are
holding their workers hostage to get votes for Mitt Romney. Tonight,
former Labor Secretary Robert Reich on the revolt of the plutocrats.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I`ll tell you, you`ve got a
great boss. He runs a great operation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching.

Mitt Romney is the candidate who will say whatever it takes to win.
The race is tightening, but Romney still needs to win over women voters.

Romney offered this moderate position when asked by a local Iowa
reporter if he will pursue any legislation specifically regarding abortion.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ROMNEY: There`s no legislation with regards to abortion that I`m
familiar with that would become part of my agenda.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That statement is at odds with Romney`s entire campaign, his
running mate and his party platform.

President Obama called Romney on it during an interview with ABC News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: This is another example of Governor Romney hiding positions
he`s been campaigning on for a year and a half.

DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS: Does he lie?

OBAMA: No, I actually think his position on -- when it comes to
women`s rights to control their own health care decisions, you know, what
he has been saying is exactly what he believes. He thinks that it is
appropriate for politicians to inject themselves into those decisions. I
think Governor Romney has made it very clear that if a bill comes to his
desk that overturns Roe versus Wade, that he will be fully supportive of
that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney`s own vice presidential candidate has introduced
legislation to restrict abortion. Reporters asked Paul Ryan if he`s on the
same page with Romney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: Our position`s unified. Our position`s consistent and that
hasn`t changed.

REPORTER: What is your position?

RYAN: You`ll find -- I`m sure you`ll find out in these debates.

REPORTER: Were you upset that he said that to the "Des Moines
Register"?

RYAN: No, no position change. Our position`s very consistent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney could only dodge the question so much. The campaign
went into full spin mode. Romney`s spokeswoman, Andrea Saul, had to mop it
up again. She gave a statement to the conservative "National Review":
"Governor Romney would of course support legislation aimed at providing
greater protections for life."

"Talking Points Memo" reported the Romney camp got on the phone with
Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, to say, don`t worry, Romney
made a gaffe, this is not a change of position at all. Perkins confirmed
the campaign called and assured him Romney wasn`t changing his support for
pro-life issues.

Romney himself tried to dig himself out of a hole.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I`m a pro-life candidate and I`ll be a pro-life president.
The actions I`ll take immediately are to remove funding for Planned
Parenthood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It`s hard to understand how Mitt Romney can tell Iowa
reporters there`s no legislation on abortion in his agenda.

Romney admits he`ll sign a bill to defund Planned Parenthood.

He also wants to defund nonprofits, providing abortions in foreign
countries.

Romney says he`ll sign legislation reversing Roe v. Wade.

He wants to appoint Supreme Court justices who will overturn Roe v.
Wade.

My friends, this is the most extreme pro-life agenda presidential
candidate could ever have. Romney`s statements to the Iowa paper would be
the most radical 180 on abortion rights if it wasn`t for the complete 180
that he`s already made on something else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I will preserve and protect a woman`s right to choose and
your effort to continue to try to create fear and deception here is
unbecoming. It`s an issue that`s important. I`ve established my view very
clearly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He basically attacked me and said I was, quote,
"unbecoming" for having questioned his voracity, that I was questioning his
integrity.

ROMNEY: I will preserve and protect a woman`s right to choose and am
devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That clip was from the PBS "Frontline" documentary called
"The Choice." The interview with Romney`s supporters like his former
campaign adviser Rob Gray show a candidate without a core.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s tough to say what he believes. I`m not sure,
exactly, what he believes on social issues, even though I was closely
involved in the campaign. Mitt Romney was certainly comfortable being a
liberal on social issues, in 2002, if it was going to help him win, and
that`s clearly what it would take many Massachusetts to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: You can watch the entire documentary, "Frontline"
documentary on our Web site, Ed.MSNBC.com. I highly recommend you watch
it. You will see a candidate who can change his convictions so easily
because he has no true convictions.

Mitt Romney is a guy with no backbone. He`s a wind sock at airport.
He`ll go whichever way he has to.

Former President Bill Clinton noticed the lack of Romney`s core during
the presidential debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I thought, wow. Here`s old moderate Mitt. Where you been,
boy? I missed you all these last two years.

The deal was made by severe conservative Mitt. That was how he
described himself, for two whole years. Until three or four days before
the debate, they all got together and said, hey, man, this ship is sinking
faster than the Titanic. But people are still frustrated about the economy
and they want it fixed yesterday. So just show up with a sunny face and
say, I didn`t say all that stuff I said the last two years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Women can`t trust a candidate who changes his position on
women`s rights all the time. Conservatives can`t trust him either. But
they`re willing to put up with him.

The corporate world is behind Mitt Romney because they know that they
can manipulate him. They can cash with him, maybe. They know he has no
backbone. If he shifts his position, that means any corporation can walk
into the Oval Office and have a chance to get what they want. And that`s
what they like.

If Mitt Romney is in the White House, the right-wingers will walk him
like a dog. Having a president with no convictions is like having no
president at all.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: can voters trust Mitt Romney?

Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639. You can always go to our
blog and leave a comment at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results
later on in the show.

I`m joined tonight by Terry O`Neill, president of the National
Organization for Women. Bob Shrum`s with us tonight as well, Democratic
strategist and professor at NYU.

All right. Terry, you first.

Which Mitt Romney do you believe -- the pro-life moderate who spoke in
Iowa to the "Des Moines Register" on record? Or the hard right-winger on
the campaign trail? Which is it?

TERRY O`NEILL, PRESIDENT, N.O.W.: Honestly, I think he was lying to
the "Des Moines Register." I think he is hard right.

I think the that he will -- he will be as good as his promise to
defund Planned Parenthood, to defund family planning clinics that offer
abortions, or that even refer women to abortion.

I think that he will -- that he will absolutely support and sign a
personhood amendment, if it should get to his desk, which we intend not to
let that happen.

I think he was lying to the "Des Moines Register," because he knows
that those very positions are deeply unpopular. They`re unpopular with
male voters, but they are particularly unpopular with women voters. And I
think it`s important for your viewers to know, women are not fooled.

SCHULTZ: Sure.

O`NEILL: Women are not as stupid as he seems to think we are.

SCHULTZ: Bob, what about Mitt Romney? Has he always lacked a
political core and it`s just rearing its head throughout this long process
of this campaign season? That he`s so lacking in his commitment and his
backbone and his convictions, he just can`t help but having it come out?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, listen, this was etch-a-
sketch at warp speed. But I think he`s always been an opportunist. We
have to be careful, though, because what he`s trying to do now is give
these sounds of moderation. The happy face, as Bill Clinton put it.

But who is he really? And I think we can judge that by what happened
in Massachusetts. You showed that clip from 2002. He said the same thing
in 1994.

He became governor. He tried to outlaw stem cell research, claiming
that it was the taking of life. He then said that he wanted to see the end
of Roe v. Wade, which he once had said he wanted to see codified, so states
could decide. And he then said he wanted a human life amendment that would
outlaw abortion across the country.

The real Romney is severely anti-choice. And what he`s doing hear,
whether it`s on choice, on pre-existing conditions, on tax cuts for the
rich, is all a deception designed to trick people into voting against
themselves.

SCHULTZ: So, Terry, it sounds like Mitt Romney will do the bidding of
the fundamentalists like Tony Perkins if he becomes president?

O`NEILL: You know, I think he will, but I think it`s his own bidding
too. I think it was important of you to show that clip of him bullying
during the debate in 2002. That is the way he is with women, the stories
that have emerged out of Massachusetts, where he tried to bully a woman who
was -- whose pregnancy was actually threatening her life.

She had -- she and her husband had gotten permission from the Mormon
Church elders to terminate this life-threatening abortion. He went in and
tried to intimidate her into not terminating this -- that pregnancy. That
is the way he is with women.

And he -- so my sense of him is that he will lie without conscious,
because it`s the same thing, as intimidating and bullying. It`s
manipulation, it`s just doing whatever he wants to do in order to get what
he wants.

SCHULTZ: Sure. Let`s watch what conservative columnist David Brooks
had to say about Mitt Romney in this "Frontline" documentary. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROOKS, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: I really think that he is a
product of a world where you do market research, you find out what`s
working, what`s not working. You do controlled experiments. And then you
dovetail your product to suit the market place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, is that an accurate and fair assessment?

SHRUM: I think it`s entirely accurate. It`s also what President
Clinton said. It`s what you and I have discussed before.

For him the pursuit of the presidency is a business plan. Go out and
figure out what the consumers want to hear, tell them what they want to
hear.

It`s just like when you`re taking over a company and you tell those
workers, build the grandstand. We`re going to make this company work. And
what all along you intend to close down the company, take a lot of profits
out of it and fire all the workers.

I think -- listen, it`s fundamentally important here that we
understand that this guy does represent the right. I don`t know whether
he`s simply a hostage to the right or whether he believes it. I think he
believes it.

And if he becomes president, all sorts of things that we care about,
whether it`s women`s rights, whether it`s rights for Hispanics and
immigrants, whether it`s civil rights, those things are on the line. And I
just hope we don`t see a repeat in the debate tomorrow night of the shame
of that first debate where Hispanics and women and gay people and African-
Americans didn`t even seem to exist in domestic policy.

SCHULTZ: So, this is irreversible damage, for suburban women. Would
you agree with that, Terry?

O`NEILL: Oh, absolutely. I think suburban women are going -- are not
going to vote for Mitt Romney. I think they see right through his
deception. And I think that they actually, it`s incredibly offensive and
demeaning to women to treat us as if we`re so stupid that we would believe
this kind of hoaxterism.

We`re looking for a president that we can take at his word. Barack
Obama is pro-choice and he means it when he says he`s pro-choice. Mitt
Romney will say anything and do anything and he is not the right president
for women.

SCHULTZ: I think all of us in our lifetime come across people who do
business deals and they will say anything they possibly can to get the
deal, close the deal at closing, and Mitt Romney comes off as one of these
guys. I mean, how in the world can he sit there with the "Des Moines
Register" and say that it`s not a part of his agenda or any legislation,
and then hours later go out and say the total opposite.

And he must know that all of this videotape is on record of what he
has said in the past. I find it absolutely mind-boggling.

SHRUM: And his whole strategy at this point, we saw it in the debate,
is to give off these emanations of moderation. Somehow or other, you know,
you can trust me.

He even wants the flip-flop image to work for him so that people will
think that somehow or other, he`s kind of safe. The fact is he`s not.

SCHULTZ: And with all these lies, he`s in a close race. I find it
amazing.

Terry O`Neill, Bob Shrum -- great to have you with us tonight.

SHRUM: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen there. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow, and with us on
Facebook. We always want to know what you think.

Coming up, President Obama is fired up and ready to go in his first
interview about last week`s debate. He has tough words for Mitt Romney and
shares his thoughts on Joe Biden`s debate, coming up. That`s next.

You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Mitt Romney and President Obama share their
expectations for tomorrow night`s vice presidential debate. Howard Fineman
joins me for debate preview.

Paul Ryan tries to convince Michigan voters that he and Mitt Romney
will fight for the automobile industry. But their record certainly tells a
different story. We`ll have the details.

And Congressman Joe Walsh attacks Tammy Duckworth for her appearance
at the DNC and he`s not the only Tea Partier facing a tough re-election
fight. The list is growing.

I`ll talk with MSNBC political analyst Karen Finney. Share your
thoughts on Facebook with us and also on Twitter using #EdShow. We`re
coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: You know, I don`t know how Paul will deal with this debate.
Obviously, the vice president has done, I don`t know, 15 or 20 debates
during his lifetime, an experienced debater. This is, I think, Paul`s
first debate. I may be wrong. He may have doing something in high school,
I don`t know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yes, he might have done something in high school. To hear
Mitt Romney tell it, tomorrow`s vice presidential debate in Danville,
Kentucky, will be a completely new experience for his running mate. So
don`t expect too much from Paul Ryan.

Mitt might want to brush up on some of the facts. As ABC News
reports, Ryan has actually participated in -- count them -- at least eight
debates during his 14 years in Congress according to available articles and
information provided by the Ryan campaign. They`re saying he`s not a
rookie.

President Obama gave his thoughts on the Biden/Ryan debate earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Well, I think Joe just needs to be Joe. Congressman Ryan is a
smart and effective speaker. But his ideas are the wrong ones. And Joe
understands that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Meanwhile, President Obama is critiquing his own debate
performance, at length, for the first time. Here he is with Tom Joyner.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OBAMA: I mean, you know, the debate, I think, it`s fair to say, I was
just too polite. Because, you know, it`s hard to sometimes just keep on
saying what you`re saying isn`t true. It gets repetitive.

But, you know, the good news is, is that`s just the first one.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The president reiterated that message with Diane Sawyer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Governor Romney had a good night, I had a bad night.

SAWYER: How bad?

OBAMA: Well, it`s not the first time I`ve had a bad night, but I
think what`s important is that the fundamentals of what this race is about
haven`t changed. You know, Governor Romney went to a lot of trouble to try
to hide what his positions are, because he knows that those ideas have been
rejected.

SAWYER: Is it possible you handed him the election that night?

OBAMA: No.

SAWYER: You`re going to win?

OBAMA: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Howard Fineman, NBC News political analyst
and the editorial director for the "Huffington Post" Media Group and the
road warrior of debates, coming to us tonight from Louisville, Kentucky.

HOWARD FINEMAN, HUFFINGTON POST: My old hometown, Ed. My old
hometown.

SCHULTZ: There you go. What do you make of the president`s remarks
there? I mean, saying that he was -- on that radio interview, that he
might have been too polite against Mitt Romney? What about that?

FINEMAN: Well, that`s the most benign explanation he could have
given. I think the more important thing was he sounded pretty emphatic
when Diane Sawyer asked, "Did you blow the election on that night?" and he
said, "No," and he didn`t hesitate. And she said, "Are you going to win
the election?" and he said, "Yes".

That`s what he has to say. He has to convey a sense of confidence and
joy about what he`s doing and joy at the combat, because there are big
issues at stake here, Ed, as the president said. And they`ll be front and
center in the debate in Danville, Kentucky, east of here tomorrow. This is
a fundamental discussion about the role of government.

Mitt Romney in that debate the other week used the phrase "trickle-
down government," which is a very clever and very condescending formulation
of what government is -- the government programs that we have, that include
Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and education and so forth come
from the ground up. They`re what people want, they`re what people need,
they`re what people voted for. They`re part of the fabric of American
life. They`re not trickle-down anything.

And what the president has to do and what Joe Biden has to do tomorrow
night is to confront that notion. Joe Biden has to not only defend the
president and attack Paul Ryan for his libertarian ideas, Joe Biden has to
defend Social Security and Medicare and the very idea of the usefulness and
the importance of government in sharing responsibility in America, a big,
heavy lift for Joe Biden tomorrow night.

SCHULTZ: It`s a heavy lift, Howard, I agree, but it`s also right in
his wheelhouse. Everyone in this country knows his middle class
background. He is true to his value of helping the middle class. He
legislated that way for 30 years in the Senate.

Some think that Joe Biden`s been put in an untenable position, a tough
position. But isn`t this good for Biden? And I think for the president to
come out and say Joe`s got to be Joe, that`s kind of saying, Joe, you go
out there and let them have it, isn`t it?

FINEMAN: Well, yes, and Joe Biden, after all, was in the Senate for
37 years. He was very much a part of the Democratic Party establishment
and Democratic Party ideology about the role of helping the poor and the
middle class through cooperative effort and through government programs.
And he`s going to defend it.

I think maybe one of his strongest avenues of attack on Paul Ryan is
the fact that Paul Ryan himself, Paul Ryan`s family, Paul Ryan`s business,
Paul Ryan`s whole life in Janesville, Wisconsin, when he was busy sitting
there reading Ayn Rand and dreaming of a libertarian independent future,
that whole life was made possible by the help of government, by Social
Security supplemental income when his father died at a young age.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

FINEMAN: By roads, by railroads, by government programs.

This is a cooperative effort. And this is what Mitt Romney and Paul
Ryan are rejecting and what Joe Biden and Barack Obama need too defend. It
couldn`t be more fundamental or more urgent, because without the
counterargument, Mitt Romney is rocketing to the lead in the popular vote
and he`s catching up in the Electoral College very quickly.

It couldn`t be more important tomorrow night. Everybody says vice
presidential debates don`t matter.

SCHULTZ: This one does.

FINEMAN: This one really does.

SCHULTZ: I think it does. I think it really does. It`s -- and I
also think it sets the table for Ryan to prove that he`s the true
conservative, that the conservatives want him to be. And the question is,
is he going to leave that stage being the same guy or is he going to go
with the ticket a little bit? It`s going to be very interesting to see.

FINEMAN: Well, it`s up to -- it`s up to Joe Biden to expose that
contradiction.

SCHULTZ: Yes, that will play right in his wheelhouse. Thank you,
Howard.

Howard Fineman with us tonight from Louisville, Kentucky.

FINEMAN: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Paul Ryan is making the pitch that he`s committed
to the American automobile industry. Really? We`ll take a look at just
how real his record is about auto jobs with "The Nation`s" John Nichols.

Then, the boss and the ballot box. Workers are getting pushed to vote
against their own interest. Find out which CEOs are using high pressure
tactics to help Mitt Romney.

Stay tuned. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW and thanks for watching tonight.

Vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan is out on the campaign trail,
trying to pull a fast one on voters. He`s trying to convince people in
auto manufacturing states that the Romney/Ryan ticket will actually fight
for the U.S. automobile industry. He made this pitch to Michigan voters on
Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Know this -- we want the strongest auto sector, we want
American manufacturing to have a comeback, and the way we do that is we
stop sending all of our decisions to Washington with a government-driven
economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Ah, the government-driven economy Paul Ryan is talking
about, well, brought our auto industry back to life. President Obama`s
2009 auto loan saved G.M. and Chrysler, along with hundreds of thousands of
jobs with the ripple effect throughout the industry.

Meanwhile, Paul Ryan needs to do some research of his own, on his
running mate. Mitt Romney has trashed the auto loan more than once.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

ROMNEY: Were there some institutions that should not have been bailed
out? Absolutely. Should they have used the funds to bail out General
Motors and Chrysler? No.

There`s no question but that if you just write a check, that you`re
going to see these companies go out of business, ultimately.

MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: You said, quote, "If General Motors, Ford and
Chrysler get the bailouts that their chief executives asked for yesterday,
you can kiss the American auto industry goodbye."

ROMNEY: That`s exactly right. If you write a check, they`re going to
go out of business.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: Oh, yes, Mr. Bankruptcy himself. Mitt Romney cannot hide
from his record on auto loan, no matter how hard he tries to sell it and
spin the facts. He wanted to let them go bankrupt. He said it, he wrote
it.

Paul Ryan didn`t stop there. He also tried to appeal to Michigan
voters by telling them that he`s from Detroit West.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: I represent southern Wisconsin. We lost four auto factories in
the area I represent in just the last four years. Trust me, I come from
Detroit West.

(LAUGHTER)

RYAN: We know we need a healthy auto sector.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Let`s trust him. Well, one of those plants closed under
George W. Bush. But all of them closed while Paul Ryan was representing
the district. Voters need to be wary of Paul Ryan`s new pitch. Remember
the facts. President Obama`s policies saved the American automobile
industry, in spite of Republican trying to obstruct him.

Just this week, General Motors announced it`s adding 2,000 new jobs in
the state of Michigan. GM is also planning to in source 10,000 technology
jobs to Michigan over the next three to five years. This would not be
happening if we had gone down the road that Mitt Romney suggested of
letting Detroit go bankrupt.

And if you just write a check, they`ll go out of business. Not the
case. They missed it by a long shot.

Let`s turn to John Nichols, Washington correspondent for "the Nation"
magazine and author of the book "Uprising." John, you know the territory
he is talking about. Paul Ryan says he`s committed to the United States
automobile industry. Does his record reflect this in his campaign pitch?

JOHN NICHOLS, "THE NATION": Not in the least. And it`s kind of
shocking that he would go to other states and pitch himself as a champion
of the American auto industry. When Paul Ryan was elected to Congress in
1998, southeastern Wisconsin was one of the centers for auto-making and for
auto parts. Under his watch, a major auto parts plant, Delphi, closed.
The Kenosha Chrysler plant closed. The Janesville plant in his own
hometown closed.

And in each of those cases, they closed, at least in part, because of
trade rules and federal policies that Paul Ryan backed. His own
constituents, members of the United Auto workers and Local 95 and Local 72,
begged him to vote on the side of auto workers and he did not.

SCHULTZ: OK, so the trade agreements that he supported hurt the
automobile industry. And he didn`t work for his constituents to keep those
plants open. That`s on the record.

Now what about the automobile loan that was out there? Do you think
people will buy his bogus campaign pitch into auto manufacturing states?

NICHOLS: I would hope that they would look at it much more seriously,
because the fact of the matter is, Paul Ryan has been in the forefront of
bashing these sorts of interventions. Even where occasionally he has been
supportive of some sort of initiative for the auto industry, it`s always
been grudgingly.

This isn`t someone who`s passionate about keeping manufacturing jobs
in the U.S. or keeping American workers in those plants. And I hope that
Joe Biden remembers to bring this up tomorrow. It is a fundamental issue
in states like Pennsylvania and Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

SCHULTZ: John, how aggressive should Joe Biden, the vice president,
get in tomorrow`s debate? Should he pounce on this auto loan?

NICHOLS: I sure hope he does, because the fact of the matter is, the
auto loan issue is one of the core messages that came out of that
Democratic National Convention. If you look at what really connected with
people, what they got, it was the idea that this administration went to the
mat to save an American industry. That`s FDR kind of stuff. And I happen
to think you can`t go wrong with it.

SCHULTZ: Now, Mitt Romney says that he hadn`t had a debate, his
partner hasn`t had a debate since high school. What are we expecting from
Paul Ryan in tomorrow night`s debate?

NICHOLS: Mitt Romney ought to get to know his campaign partner, his
running mate. Paul Ryan has been in debates in most of his congressional
races. He`s been in television debates, in town hall debates. And I would
remind people that he was the Republican point man in the debate on health
care reform. He actually closed that debate off on the floor of the House.

This notion that Paul Ryan doesn`t know how to debate, this effort to
lower expectations is comic. Paul Ryan knows how to debate. The question
is whether he`s going to be able, in a debate, to defend his stances and
those of Mitt Romney.

SCHULTZ: Especially that Ryan Budget, up against Joe Biden. John
Nichols, great to have you with us tonight. Thanks a lot.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.
Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I`ll tell you, you`ve got a great boss. He runs a great
operation here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The Federal Election Commission is now involved over Mitt
Romney`s use of coal miners as props. Robert Reich on the plutocrat`s
revolt is next.

The mother of a Navy SEAL killed in Benghazi asks Mitt Romney to stop
using her son as a political prop. That story, ahead.

And congressman Joe Walsh has reached yet another new low.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOE WALSH (R), ILLINOIS: Tammy Duckworth was on a stage down in
Charlotte, if you can look at the picture, picking out a dress for her
speech Tuesday night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Tonight, Karen Finney on why the Tea Party crazies could be
facing extinction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. So you`re an independent
thinker and you don`t like people telling you what to do. Imagine how
would you feel if your boss told you how to vote. Hundreds of thousands of
workers are being told to vote for Mitt Romney or else. We`re seeing more
and more of these high-pressure tactics lately. This wealthy boss could be
in big trouble for strongarming his employees.

His name`s Robert Murray. He runs Murray Energy in Ohio. He`s the
one who forced miners to attend this Romney rally without pay. Ohio
Democrats, they want an investigation. Now the Federal Elections
Commission is giving Murray 15 days to respond to allegations he strong
armed his employees to make campaign contributions.

Murray says re-electing the president will destroy his employees.
He`s got a conspiracy theory which actually made a Fox News anchor laugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MURRAY, MURRAY ENERGY COMPANY: It`s a human issue to me,
because it`s the lives and livelihoods of my employees, Neil, that he is
destroying. The next thing you`re going to have Obama doing is asking for
legislation to pay people`s electric bills.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Murray`s not the only boss trying to put a thumb on the
election scale. Time share billionaire David Siegel is now explaining his
pressure tactics to cNBC. Siegel`s the guy building the biggest mansion in
America. He sent an e-mail telling employees he`d lose his motivation to
work if the president`s re-elected. He`s threatening to retire and close
up shop.

Siegel swears he`s not trying to pressure employees. He`s just
educating them. Funny, the Koch Brothers, they say the same thing. David
and Charles Koch sent a list of suggested candidates to 500,000 employees
during the last election. Monday, they launched a million dollar ad
campaign in 13 states. They say they`re just educating voters.

All of these millionaire and billionaire bosses are supporting Romney
for several reasons. Romney will cut their taxes and deregulate their
industries. It`s not about the workers. It`s about using the workers to
deliver greater wealth to these bosses.

Let`s turn to Robert Reich, former secretary of labor under Bill
Clinton and now a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley and author of
the book, "Beyond Outrage."

This would take many employees, I think, to outrage, knowing that
their job could be on the line if they don`t vote the way the boss wants
them to. Mr. Reich, good to have you with us tonight. Do these CEOs care
more about their employees or their bottom line?

ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Ed, there`s no question. They
care not only about their bottom lines, but they treat their employees as
costs to be cut rather than assets to be developed. And that is the new
corporate code in many corporations. And you see the revolt of these
plutocrats. I mean, they are now saying because they are so worried that
the possibility is that their taxes might be raised, even though they`ve
never had as much money before, even though the 400 richest Americans have
more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans put together, even though
we are now seeing more inequality than we`ve had in this country in over
100 years, since the era of the Robber Barons, these people have the nerve
to tell their employees that if Obama is re-elected and if their taxes are
raised, they will slim down, they will fire employees, they will have to
simply close up shop.

That is ridiculous. They have no historical sense. Obviously, taxes
are lower on them today than they were in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s. And
also, these people seem to have no patriotic sense. I mean, they are part
of a society. They have some obligations to society. And yet they are
saying, I don`t want to be taxed, and if I`m taxed, then I`m going to take
it out on all of you, that have less job security than you`ve ever had,
whose wages continue to drop, and whose homes are now worth 30 percent less
than they were worth before.

SCHULTZ: Do you think these pressure tactics are going to work on
workers? I mean, there is, you know, a fear in the job place in America
when bosses act like this. You know, they don`t want to lose their job.
They see that Harry down the street lost his job and their family is having
a hard time. That kind of thinking sets in, what the heck, it`s just a
vote, I`m going to go ahead and do it. What about that?

REICH: It`s possible, Ed. Remember, this is a very, very, very tight
election. And even if you have five percent of the workers who are
intimidated like this or three percent or two percent, it could make a
difference. And with unemployment still high -- I mean, it`s getting
better, but unemployment`s still high. a lot of people are still looking
for work. There`s not enough job security out there to guard against the
possibility of this kind of intimidation.

SCHULTZ: What do you think of the investigation of using these
workers, that Mitt Romney had these miners to get up there as props,
because Murray told them to do so. That`s the word, anyway. And now
there`s an investigation. As labor secretary, from your experience, what
could this do? What could it mean?

REICH: Well, I think, first of all, we have got to protect the rights
of workers in terms of their free speech, free association, their right to
vote, their right not to be interfered with. I mean, after all, we now
have a Supreme Court that is calling corporations people and saying
corporations have First Amendment rights. Well, what about the First
Amendment rights of the common worker? The ordinary person who`s the
trying, simply, to make enough money to keep his family or her family in
house and home, and is being told by an employer that they`ve got a vote a
certain way?

It seems to me that if we have any meaning to the First Amendment at
all, these workers ought to be protected. If the labor laws have any
meaning at all, these workers deserve to be protected.

Ed, let me just say win other thing, because it`s a background
condition. These plutocrats, these bullying billionaires, what they are
worried about is a slight hike in their taxes, maybe back to what it was
during Bill Clinton`s era. But you know, Barack Obama not only bailed out
Wall Street, even though Wall Street is now all running in Romney`s
direction. Barack Obama got the stock market back. Now the Dow Jones
Industrial Average is almost back to what it was before.

Barack Obama made sure that the economy was so healthy that 93 percent
of the benefits of this recovery so far have gone to the top one percent.
And yet these are the people in the top one tenth of one percent, the top
one hundredth of one percent -- these are the ones who are saying, we don`t
want to be taxed and we`re going to take it out on our employees. Well,
I`ll tell you something, if anybody has declared class warfare, it`s these
guys.

SCHULTZ: No doubt. Robert Reich, great to have you on THE ED SHOW
always. Thanks so much. Spot on again.

Coming up, the mother of a former Navy SEAL killed in the September
11th attack in the U.S. consulate in Libya tells Mitt Romney to stop using
her son`s story on the campaign trail. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: He served as a Navy SEAL. And after his service as a SEAL,
after a number of years, he had stayed involved, helping in the Middle
East, providing security services to our government and to other
enterprises, to provide help to them. And you can imagine how shocked I
was to learn that he was one of the two Navy -- former Navy SEALS killed in
Benghazi, just a couple of weeks ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. That was Mitt Romney on the
campaign trail in Ohio today, recalling a chance encounter he had with Glen
Doherty, a former Navy SEAL who died in the September 11th attack on the
U.S. consulate in Benghazi. Romney began telling the story yesterday, a
day after he used the attack to criticize President Obama in a foreign
policy speech at Virginia Military Institute.

But he won`t be telling that story again. Barbara Doherty, the former
SEAL`s mother, told her local NBC affiliate that she did not appreciate
Romney`s use of her son`s story on the campaign trail. She said, "I don`t
trust Romney. He shouldn`t make my son`s death part of the political
agenda. It`s wrong to use these brave young men who wanted freedom for all
to degrade Obama."

When reached for comment, the Romney camp told Buzzfeed, "Governor
Romney was inspired by the memory of meeting Glen Doherty and shared his
story and that memory. We respect the wishes of Mrs. Doherty, though."

But Elf Ellefsen, a friend of Doherty`s for over 20 years, remembered
Doherty`s impression of the meeting to be very different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELF ELLEFSEN, FRIEND OF GLEN DOHERTY: He said it was pathetic and
comical to have the same person come up to you within only a half hour,
reintroduce himself to you, having absolutely no idea whatsoever that he
just did this 20 minutes ago, and did not even recognize Glen`s face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Governor Romney, who doesn`t have any credibility on foreign
policy, chooses to politicize the death of this American hero. And to make
this story fit his agenda, he apparently had to lie.

Tonight in our survey, I asked can voters trust Mitt Romney? Nine
percent of you say yes; 91 percent of you say no.

Coming up, Congressman Joe Walsh desperately tries to hold on to his
seat against Iraq War veteran Tammy Duckworth.

And Tea Party Mt. Rushmore is under threat. Karen Finney joins me for
the discussion. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, the Tea Party Mt. Rushmore --
I love this -- is under threat by some strong Democratic challengers around
the country. Here are the Tea Partiers, as portrayed by Talking Points
Memo: Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, Congressman Allen West
of Florida, Congressman Steve King of Iowa, and Congressman Joe Walsh of
Illinois.

Congressman Walsh, he`s a dandy. He`s fighting for his political life
in a redrawn district favoring Iraq War veteran Tammy Duckworth. Here`s
one of Walsh`s desperate attacks in their recent debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: I was marching in a parade in Chaumburg Sunday, two days
before the Democratic Convention, when Tammy Duckworth was on a stage down
in Charlotte, if you can look at the picture, picking out a dress for her
speech Tuesday night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Walsh was booed. Duckworth, who is a war hero, a double
amputee as well, had an answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D), CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS: I do sometimes look at
the clothes that I wear. But for most of my adult life, I`ve worn one
color. It`s called camouflage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Congressman Allen West is a huge favorite of the Tea Party
crowd and is being challenged by a strong Democrat, Patrick Murphy.
Congressman West campaigned with Mitt Romney just a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALLEN WEST (R), FLORIDA: You saw Wednesday night was when the
opportunity society takes the stage with the dependency society. The
opportunity society wins.

(APPLAUSE)

WEST: They believe in creating and expanding a welfare nanny state.
And you see that with the unemployment. You see that with the Food Stamps.
You see that with Americans in poverty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Bachmann has been pretty quiet as of late,
don`t you think? At least on the national stage, as she fights to keep her
seat against a wealthy self-made businessman, Democrat Jim Graves.

Congressman King is also being challenged by the former First Lady of
Iowa, Kristi Vilsack, wife of Obama ag secretary Tom Vilsack.

Let`s bring in Karen Finney tonight, MSNBC political analyst and
former communications director for the DNC. Karen, great to have you with
us tonight. I love this story, because all of a sudden, all of these fast-
talking right-wingers who were all after Obama, they`re now home trying to
defend their turf and they`re all in trouble. What do you make of it?

KAREN FINNEY, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I love this story,
Ed, because it shows hope for our country. Because, remember, most of
these folks are the reason that things have not been getting done in this
town for the last couple of years. And the dirty little secret is, there
are plenty of Republicans who will be just as happy to see many of these
folks go, because they know, those Tea Party folks, they came to this town
not to try to get something done for their constituents or for the country.
They came here to build their own reputations, get their own press, and
because of their ideology.

So -- and remember, they came here with the whole goal of compromise
being a dirty word, which is a direct conflict with the whole spirit of our
Constitution.

SCHULTZ: Is Walsh probably the most vulnerable of all of them? Do
you think he`s going to lose his seat to Duckworth?

FINNEY: With a look at the numbers, he is the most vulnerable. I
mean, but you mentioned, Steve King is very vulnerable, Michele Bachmann.
Don`t forget, also, on the Senate side, you have Joe Donnelly, a Democrat,
may win Indiana. And again, I think that so much of it is, I mean, Joe
Walsh is not just ridiculous, but he`s an embarrassment.

And I think people like Todd Akin kind of put on the national stage
for people to say, wait a second, these Tea Party people, this is not
America. This is not what -- you know, this is not advancing our country.
And I think it gave people kind of a second look at what that agenda really
is.

SCHULTZ: And then there`s Allen West. This congressman from Florida
said that Romney`s 47 percent remark may have been clumsy, but then he
doubled down on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEST: Really, the number is 48.6. That`s the percentage of people in
the United States of America that are receiving some form of government
welfare assistance. And I`m not talking about Medicare and Medicaid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m not sure if that number`s correct. What do you make of
it?

FINNEY: I think he was just making stuff up, like he usually seems to
make stuff up when he talks. Look, I think one of the things we need to
acknowledge, there have been a lot of great groups like Credo and DCCC who
have really done some outstanding work making sure that we get rid of some
of the worst of the worst. And again, it could mean for our country that
we get things done.

SCHULTZ: You know, Paul Ryan is one of these guys. What do you think
about tomorrow night?

FINNEY: You know what, I got every -- all the faith in Joe. I`ve got
to tell you, Joe`s going to keep it real and I think he`s going to hold
Paul Ryan`s feet to the fire. I wrote about it in "The Hill" this week. I
don`t think Paul Ryan is going to be able to squirm out of answering the
questions with Joe sitting right there, with, you know, kind of the tough
questions to be asked.

SCHULTZ: These are interesting races across the board. And in
Minnesota, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, it`s always been three people
for that seat. This time, it`s only two. And I think that that is going
to play a very, very interesting, because she didn`t win by much the last
time around. And now there`s only two candidates. And Jim Graves is very
impressive. And Bachmann and Congressman King, you know, they were so
available to go on Fox all the time and take down President Obama. But,
you know, we just don`t see them too often these days, do we? Karen, great
to have you with us tonight.

FINNEY: Take care, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much. You bet. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed
Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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