updated 10/15/2012 12:20:30 PM ET 2012-10-15T16:20:30

POLITICS NATION
October 12, 2012

Guests: Dana Milbank; Margie Omero, Lee Saunders, Jack Bernstein, Joe Madison


REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Thanks, Chris, and thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, no hiding from Biden. For months Mitt Romney and Paul
Ryan have been running from their records, hiding their extreme far right
agenda behind platitudes and big promises, trying to pin them down on
specifics was like trying to nail jello to the wall.

But that all stopped last night. We`ll talk about all of it in the
show tonight, how vice president Biden took the fight to Paul Ryan on issue
after issue on taxes, on Medicare, on abortion, on their plan to privatize
Social Security and to cut Medicare. Joe Biden simply dismantled the
Romney/Ryan world view.

But also, talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big
deal out of Joe Biden`s smile. So what? I would have been outright
laughing in Paul Ryan`s face. Joe Biden was fed up and who could blame
him?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With all due respect,
that`s a bunch of malarkey.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABS NEWS: And why is that so?

BIDEN: Because not a single thing he said is accurate.

This is a bunch of stuff. Look, here is the deal.

RADDATZ: What do you mean a bunch of stuff?

BIDEN: Well, it means, it`s simply inaccurate.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It`s Irish.

RADDATZ: Thanks for the translation. OK.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Malarkey. A bunch of stuff. I love it. I love it.

Biden systematically took apart Ryan`s arguments for less government,
less accountability, less community. It got so bad, Paul Ryan was driven
to drink. Literally, he went back to that cup of water over and over
again. By our last count, at least 21 time. What`s the matter there, Mr.
Ryan? Got a little cotton mouth?

Last night the Romney/Ryan effort was exposed as a shield for the
extreme far right and vice president Biden drove that point home again and
again today, campaigning right in Ryan`s home state of Wisconsin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It was made clear last night that they don`t believe in
protecting a woman`s access to health care. It was made very clear that
they do not believe a woman has a right to control her own body. These are
the folks who talk about 47 percent of the American people being unwilling
to take responsibility. It`s time Romney and Ryan and the Republican
Congress take a pledge to the middle class people saying we are going to
level the playing field. We are going to get you back in the game. We are
going to give you a fair shot again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Paul Ryan has been saying he wanted a big debate. Well,
last night he got one and today their whole dishonest campaign is sorry he
did.

Joining me now, Dana Milbank for "the Washington Post" and Democratic
strategist Margie Omero.

Thanks to both of you being here tonight.

MARGIE OMERO, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you.

DANA MILBANK, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Hi, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Dana, Biden put Ryan on the defensive and really the whole
Romney/Ryan world. But, nowhere more than when Biden nailed him on the
GOP`s attack on the stimulus. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I love my friend here. I`m not allowed to show letters but go
to our Web site. He sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send
me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin? We
sent millions of dollars.

RADDATZ: You did ask for stimulus money?

BIDEN: Sure he did.

RYAN: On two occasions, we advocated for constituents for applying
for grants. So, we do that for all constituents for all.

BIDEN: I love that. I love that. This is such a bad program and he
writes me a program saying the reason we need the stimulus, it will create
growth and jobs. His words.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Dana, isn`t that the crux of the hypocrisy of the GOP?

MILBANK: That was my favorite moment of the whole debate, Reverend
Al. We knew about these letters. These were all been reported before, in
fact, they have used them in stump speeches. But, to see him confronted
with it on the stage there, I think that was the essence of what made Biden
successful last night and verges of that were repeated over and over again
now.

The week before the president thought he was going to rise above the
fray and now nixed up like that. Biden show why you do need to nixed it up
like that and you can`t allow these things to stand it. He really did it
very successfully tied Ryan to some of the unpopular things that the house
Republicans have done on issue after issue. He kept it to him all 90
minutes, I would say.

SHARPTON: And Marge, it wasn`t just a got you moment, it was tied to
their hypocrisy because they have been making all of this hay about their
justice stimulus.

OMERO: Right, absolutely. I mean, it is the real sign of what people
hate about politics when politicians do one thing and say another. And
nothing really shows that more than saying I hate this program, but with
the other hand saying, I really - I would actually like this program in my
district. And on top that, Biden really added a lot of detail. So it
really was engaging. It was a very specific fact check but also engaging.
I wish we had Joe Biden, instead of close captions when Ryan talk to had
Joe Biden interpreting everything that Paul Ryan said. It would be great
if we had Joe Biden captions during Paul Ryan`s speech during the
convention. I mean, it`s important to not let these candidates get away
with saying something that their own action show they don`t believe truly
or, you know, they are playing politics all the time.

SHARPTON: Yes. And another favorite moment for me, Dana, was the
Jack Kennedy moment when Ryan struggles to defend Romney`s tax plan. Watch
this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: How is that?

RYAN: You can cut tax rates by 20 percent and still preserve these
preferences for middle class workers.

BIDEN: Not mathematically possible.

RYAN: It is mathematically possible. It`s been done before.

BIDEN: It has never been done before.

RYAN: It has been done a couple times before.

BIDEN: It has never --

RYAN: Jack Kennedy lowered tax rate increase growth.

BIDEN: Oh, now you`re Jack Kennedy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I mean, done exactly right and is absurd.

MILBANK: You know, I think the Republicans in particular, a lot of
folks I saw during the debate and after were saying that was rude. He
wasn`t allowing him to talk. You know, what`s wrong with that? I like the
idea that he was doing the constant interjection there. It was getting
under Ryan`s skin. It was rattling him. What`s wrong with the grimaces,
the laughter, the smiling, yes the constant heckling of this guy? Because
Biden was not doing it to be cartoonist. He was doing it because he was
genuinely outrage about the things that Ryan was saying. The policies were
one thing and the misrepresentations for another. So, I think getting in
his face was just the right Medicine last night.

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask the big picture political question, Dana,
and I want Margie to weigh in as well. Did this round of the base, and I`m
talking about the Democratic base for Mr. Biden, vice president Biden and
help with undecided or did it just help rile up the base?

MILBANK: Well, right. I mean, clearly, it energize the base. There
is no question about that. I think people are asking does that sort of
aggressive politics turn off independents or undecided`s, aren`t a whole
lot of undecided at this point anyway.

I think even if it did that to some extent, what needed to be done was
the reverse, the narrative that had been in place since a week ago that the
Democrats were back on their heels on the defensive. Joe Biden was not on
the defensive last night. He was dominating in every moment of that debate
and I think you see the media narratives are often overdone. It was done
last week and may be done this week. But it at least changed the way that
the story is being told now and that`s what Biden really need to do.

SHARPTON: Margie, what was the fallout from this? What was the
assets gained by the Democrats if in fact you felt Biden performed well
last night?

OMERO: Well, I think it is clearly a base motivator. But it also
worked with undecided. There was a CBS poll that was done of undecided
voters who watched the debate and half of them said that Biden won as
opposed to a quarter or third said that Ryan won. There was a new poll
just got released just as I was heading over here, I think a Reuter`s poll,
and that showed that people thought that Biden won.

So, I think, of the two of the three polls that have been released
show that voters gave Biden the edge. It also, you know, really pokes a
hole in this myth of Ryan as somebody who, you know, says what he means
when he`s talking about the facts because he really hedged in a lot of
places. You know, he didn`t offer clear distinctions with the president on
their foreign policy. In numerous cases, he dodged a question as the
campaign has repeatedly on what kind of taxes actions they would support.
So there`s a lot of places where -- and obviously the thing that we were
talking about, which is the stimulus letter. So, it really pokes a hole
that Ryan is a policy purist.

SHARPTON: Now, talking about where he pauses, it was revealing that
he had a long pause when he was asked about abortion rights under the
Romney/Ryan administration. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: If the Romney/Ryan ticket is elected, should those who
believe that abortion should remain legal be worried?

RYAN: We don`t think that unelected judges should make this decision
that people through their elected representatives and reaching a consensus
in society for the Democratic Party should make this termination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: You know, that Paul says it all. I mean, aren`t -- isn`t
that Paul pause indicative that Ryan knows that their views are really
unpopular with the average American voter? Margie?

OMERO: Yes, absolutely. And people compared Biden smiling to Gore
sigh but we had an actual Ryan sigh. And it is something we have seen
sometimes from Ryan where he gets this sort of -- he gets a little testy.
He want to show that he has some superiority on the issue and that`s what I
got from that.

And make no mistake, I wrote about it yesterday at "Huffington Post."
Republicans were on the wrong side of public opinion, even for voters who
wear abortion is not necessarily there number one vote driver. They are
still on the wrong side. It`s the biggest gender gap in terms of
importance of the vote. On top of that, you have for an all-time high, a
couple polls now show an all-time high of voters who say I don`t want the
government showing a preference for a certain set of moral values that is
new. We didn`t used to have that. That`s true now. And so, when Ryan and
Romney say, well, you know, this is what I believe and so, this is going to
be the law, that`s on the absolute wrong side. And in fact, Ryan`s
position as we`ve talked about before, reverend, is to the very far to the
extreme of where the Republicans are.

SHARPTON: Now, does that come across clearly, Dana, how extreme their
position is? I mean, we`re talking about not a debate as you would have a
decade ago about pro life, pro choice. We`re talking about ultrasound
invasions.

MILBANK: Sure.

SHARPTON: We`re talking about people redefining rape, legitimate
rape, forcible rape. I mean, this is some extreme stuff we`re talking
about.

MILBANK: Reverend, that`s also why you saw the pause there. Because
it wasn`t just a debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan. There`s a debate
between Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney. And you can see him saying, am I
answering for Romney in 2012 or am I answering for Paul Ryan in 2016 when
he hopes to be running for president?

He has a very different position. He was like, OK, I`ll go with the
party line and say what it is for now. You saw the same thing, for that
matter, on Social Security and Medicare where he said, all right, well,
here is my position but I`m not representing the position of the guy who
has chosen me to run with him.

So you could see that sort of internal debate within the Republican
Party playing out as a subtheme last night.

SHARPTON: Dana Milbank and Margie Omero, thank you both for your time
this evening.

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

OMERO: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Joe Biden cut right to the heart of what this
election is all about, the fight for fairness. It`s the fight we have to
have.

And privatize Social Security, that`s what Paul Ryan said. The true
extremism of what Romney/Ryan really want.

Plus, FOX News is in an up roar in Joe Biden. He must be doing
something right. The right wing freak out and why it shows that they don`t
have a leg or argument to stand on.

You`re watching "Politics Nation" on MSNBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, COMEDIAN: So now, thoughts going through Paul Ryan`s
mind at the very moment that that picture was taken? Number nine, my
biceps are cut like taxes for the wealthiest one percent. And the number
thought going through Paul Ryan`s mind at this moment, maybe now people
will take me seriously. There you go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Inside all of the spending last night, Paul Ryan had made
some very big news. It was in response to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Lawmakers that stand with President Bush when he was seeking
to privatize Social Security?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Privatize Social Security, a terrible idea. It`s on the
table and Ryan doesn`t want to take it back. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Welcome back to "Politics Nation."

For years Congressman Paul Ryan has been saying we need a big debate
about Medicare and Social Security. Well, last night, he got that debate.
It didn`t quite turn out the way he had hoped the American people saw that
Ryan is trying to destroy the social safety net that`s been in place for
many years and on which million of regular Americans rely. Take Social
Security. He wants to privatize it and he said so last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: You were one of the few lawmakers to stand with President
Bush when he was seeking to privatize Social Security?

RYAN: For younger people, what I said then, and what I have always
agreed, is let younger Americans have a voluntary choice of making their
money work faster for them within the Social Security system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: So much for the security and Social Security. Mr. Ryan
would put your money at the mercy of the stock market. As for Medicare,
Ryan ran out of the room to hide his extreme position.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: We will honor this promised. And the best way to do it is to
reform it from my generation. We are not going to jeopardize this program
but we have to save it.

BIDEN: You are jeopardizing the program. You are changing the
program from the guaranteed benefits to a premium support, whatever you
call it. The bottom line is, people are going to have to pay more money
out of their pocket.

RYAN: It`s a voucher.

BIDEN: Who do you believe? The AMA? Me? A guy who has fought his
whole life for this? There is somebody who would actually put in motion a
plan that knowingly cuts - added $6400 a year more to the cost of Medicare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: That`s what Congressman Ryan would knowingly do to seniors.
Vice president Biden unmasked what he and his running mate really think
about Medicare, really think about Social Security. And Biden showed that
only one candidate really cares about protecting those programs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: These guys hadn`t been big on Medicare from the beginning.
Their party has not been big on Medicare from the beginning and they`ve
always been about Social Security as little as you can do.

Look, folks, use your commonsense. Who do you trust on this? A man
who introduced a bill that would raise it $6400 a year knowing it and
passing it and Romney saying he signed it or me and the president?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Who do you trust? If you care about the program so many
rely on, it`s not even a close call.

Joining me now is former Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell, now an NBC
political analyst and E.J. Dionne, columnist for "the Washington Post" and
MSNBC contributor.

Thank you both for being here tonight.

ED RENDELL (D), FORMER GOVERNOR, PENNSYLVANIA: Our pleasure.

E.J. DIONNE, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Good to be with you.

SHARPTON: Governor Rendell, Romney/Ryan are taking on a fight about
Medicare and Social Security. How do you think it went for them with
voters in Pennsylvania and Ohio and elsewhere?

RENDELL: Well, it was a real bad night for them last night. And Joe
Biden made the point, and he actually could have made it more directly.
When Medicare and Social Security were being debated in the `30s and the
`60s, Republicans called it socialized Medicine. Republicans called it the
first step to socialism. They never liked Medicare. They never liked
Social Security. They warned that it was going to drag us into the ditch.

Well, Medicare and Social Security made this country the envy of the
world because our seniors know that they are going to be protected. They
are not going to have to worry about finding up in the poor house and Joe
Biden made that point.

I thought, you know, I`m sort of amazed that the polls were not even
more dramatic on Biden`s side because I thought he really cleaned the floor
where Congressman Ryan. On that issue which you properly point out, Rev,
on foreign policy, I thought it wasn`t even close. I`m not sure if you
hear Paul Ryan talking discussing foreign policy last night. You can close
your eyes and visualize him as a president.

So I think it was a big win and particularly as you said, the word
unmasked is a good word because Governor Romney tries to sort of hide the
plans on Social Security and Medicare, hide them behind some fancy words.
But the truth went out last night. And Joe Biden said it right. Who do
you trust? The party that has always been there that created Medicare,
created Social Security, has protected them through the years or people
who have hated it from the beginning and want to change it?

SHARPTON: E.J., I mean, let`s not make any mistake about this. Ryan
has been looking to hit Social Security up for some time now. Look at the
facts. In 2010 budget, he would take $4.9 trillion out of Social Security
trust fund. It would have cut middle income workers Social Security by 39
percent. It would raise the retirement age even for those who physically
can`t do their jobs anymore. And he was a big part of the Bush
privatization plan as New Yorker points out in 2005. Quote, "Ryan laid the
groundwork for the Republican agenda should Bush be elected. As a 34-year-
old representative, he set out to privatize Social Security."

This is a big radical plan of his.

DIONNE: Right. This is a big deal. First of all, I think we should
give vice president Biden some kind of humanitarian award because he talks
so many Democrats out of the suicidal mood that they have been in since the
last debate. And I think the demoralization is over precisely because some
of these issues were put on the table.

I think Ryan made a real mistake on the Social Security privatization
and it went to the fact that he was torn in that debate between defending
his own positions and perhaps looking forward to 2016 and beyond and
defending the interest of the Romney/Ryan ticket. Now, I don`t fault him
for defending his own views. But Social Security wasn`t on the table as an
issue in this election. President Obama, and I don`t think he should have
done this in his debate, said there isn`t much difference between Mitt
Romney and me on Social Security. Stunningly, privatization is on the
table.

And on Medicare, I think that a lot of doubts were put in the heads of
a lot of people, seniors and otherwise, about what this plan really is.

SHARPTON: Yes.

DIONNE: And so, I think on both issues, Biden put issues on the table
that Democrats needed to have on the table.

SHARPTON: Now, governor, does that not me mean now in Tuesday`s
debate with the number two debate with the president and Mr. Romney that
privatization Social Security is now on the table, there has to be a big
different between the governor and the president now?

RENDELL: Right. But as E.J. said, the president made a very serious
mistake because Governor Romney can go back and say, whoa, Mr. President.
Didn`t you say in our first debate that there are very little plans on
Social Security? So why are you talking about this now? And that would be
very confusing to voters.

SHARPTON: Well, if the president pinned him down and said, my
understanding now is that you`re talking privatization. Is that not what
you`re talking?

RENDELL: And that would be --

SHARPTON: I don`t know that Mr. Romney wants to walk into that.

RENDELL: Because you`re right. At that point the president gives him
a choice. Either repudiate his running mate or say that privatization is
on the table.

SHARPTON: Yes. And I don`t know that he wants to do either.

RENDELL: Either one, right.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you this, E.J. when Ryan says, he argues that
Social Security is going bankrupt, let me show you what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Let`s talk about Medicare entitlements. Both Medicare and
Social Security are going broke and taking a larger share of budget in the
process. Will benefits for Americans under these programs have to change
for the programs to survive? Mr. Ryan?

RYAN: Absolutely. Medicare and Social Security are going bankrupt.
These are indisputable facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, when you look at the facts, he`s distorting them.
Medicare will be able to meet 88 percent of it is obligation until 2085
even if there`s no changes made as far as Social Security goes, it fully is
funded for another two decades. So, is he trying to scare people into his
policies, E.J.?

DIONNE: The answer is clearly yes. I mean, this idea that Social
Security is going bankrupt, it has been about for years by people who favor
privatization because they want to scare younger people into thinking
Social Security isn`t going to be there.

I mean the truth is, Medicare does have real problems that have to do
with the rising health care costs, which we do have to do something about.
But Social Security has problems that can be fixed very easily and are not
imminent. And so, I don`t think we should let anybody scare young people
or anyone else in to thinking, it won`t be there. And it is for so many
people, the pension they have, most workers particularly outside of the
public sector don`t have guaranteed pensions anymore. And so, to take the
guarantee out of Social Security is to take the only secured retirement
that a lot of Americans have away from them.

SHARPTON: Well, there`s no doubt about it. We now know exactly where
they stand and privatization is on the table and I think we need to deal
with that.

Governor Ed Rendell and E.J. Dionne, thanks. And both of you have a
good weekend.

RENDELL: You too, Rev.

DIONNE: Good to be with you both.

RENDELL: Yes, E.J., you too.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the return of the 47 percent. Joe Biden went
there over and over again. How can they spend this one?

And here it comes. The right wing and FOX News have a new one, from
skewed polls to cooking the books and now they are taking issue with the
smile. Oh, boy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More campaign news in a new poll found only 47
percent of voters find Mitt Romney to be trustworthy. Then Romney is like,
I hope it`s not the same 47 percent that I don`t care about

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We`re back with Joe Biden`s big night setting the social
media world on fire. Facebook reports Vice President Biden got 36 percent
more mentions than Ryan. And check out the top three rise in Google
searches. The top search was Biden. Next was the word conflating and then
came our personal favorite, a search for the word malarkey. This exchange
was the most tweeted about of the night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICE PRES. JOE BIDEN (D), UNITED STATES: It has never been done
before.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It`s been done a
couple times.

BIDEN: It has never been done before.

RYAN: Jack Kennedy lowered tax rates increased growth. Ronald Reagan
--

BIDEN: Oh, now you`re Jack Kennedy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: You`re no Jack Kennedy moment, Lloyd Bentsen would be
proud. Meantime, twitter was ablaze with celebrity involvement. Bill
Maher wrote, "hello, 911, there`s an old child beating on my TV."

Michael Moore tweeted, "Post debate results just in. Ryan`s now at
six percent body fat, 94 percent water."

The POLITICS NATION Facebook crowd was plugged in, too.

Marilynn said, "Thank God for Joe`s crisp vision he painted on behalf
of the middle class."

Janet says, her new favorite word is malarkey and Roger was happy.
The good old 47 was brought back to life. We want to hear what you think,
too. Head over to Facebook and search POLITICS NATION and "like" us to
join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. We`ll be
talking about how to return of the 47 percent ruined Paul Ryan`s night.
That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Welcome back to POLITICS NATION. In a long campaign,
sometimes it gets hard to get focused. But last night, 51 million people
watched as Joe Biden took the fight right where it needed to be. He went
to the core of what this election is all about. The fight for fairness.
He exposed the Romney Ryan vision for America for what it is. A vision
that 47 percent of Americans are moochers, a vision pitting makers against
takers. A deeply cynical, ugly view of division where the tax policies
favor the rich and the poor and middle class are left on their own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We knew we had to go after the middle class. We went ahead
and made sure that we cut taxes for the middle class. But it shouldn`t be
surprising for a guy who says, 47 percent of the American people are
unwilling to take responsibility of their own lives. I`ve had it up to
here that notion that 47 percent. It`s about time they take some
responsibility here. They should be signing a pledge saying to the middle
class, we`re going to level the playing field and they are holding hostage
the middle class tax cut. The middle class got knocked on their heels.
The great recession crashed them, they need some help now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: They need some help now. It was real. It was powerful.
And reminding everyone how desperately out of touch Romney and Ryan are.

Joining me now, Lee Saunders, president of the American Federation of
State County Municipal Employees, the nation`s largest public employee
union. And Jack Bernstein, MSNBC contributor and former chief economist
for Vice President Joe Biden. Thank you both for your time tonight.

LEE SAUNDERS, PRESIDENT, AFSCME: Thank you, Rev.

JACK BERNSTEIN, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening, Al.

SHARPTON: I want both of you to weigh in on this. Lee, you`re in
Columbus, Ohio tonight. Is it your sense that the Biden fairness appeal
will resonate with voters there in that crucial state?

SAUNDERS: Well, you know, I got into Ohio yesterday. I`ve been to
Cincinnati and Toledo. I`m in Columbus today. I was in Cleveland. And
I`ll tell you, there`s a level of excitement that I`m feeling, that I`m
seeing and talking. Not only with members but people across the community,
across the spectrum, they are excited about this election. They watched
that debate last night. They watched Joe Biden clean the clock of the
supposed economic intellectual guru of the Republican Party. Cleaned his
clock.

And they talk about the real issues at impact on working families,
whether it`s Social Security. It`s clear now that Republicans want to
privatize Social Security. They talked about Medicare. They want to make
Medicare into a coupon program. That`s what Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney are
talking about. So, our folks are energized, are mobilized, and they are
knocking on doors and making phone calls, they`re passing out leaflets and
we`re going to win this election based upon the energy that exists here in
Ohio.

SHARPTON: Jared?

BERNSTEIN: Well, look, Ohio is a state where the unemployment rate
peaked well above the national level. Eleven percent. Where the national
peaked at 10. And now it got to the 7s well before the national
unemployment level got there. So, it peaked higher and it went lower. And
a very clear factor at play here is the rescue of the auto industry. Now,
a lot of people think of the auto industry as the big plants at the end of
the line that build the cars and, of course, that is the end of the line.

But what is really going on in Ohio are a bunch of small businesses in
the auto supply chain and there`s been thousands and thousands of good,
middle class jobs created in that supply chain that absolutely wouldn`t be
here absence the president`s interventions and people in Ohio know that and
it`s a very important fact that the vice president hit on yesterday and
again drew an important distinction with his opponent.

SHARPTON: Now, Lee, it`s critical because no republican has ever won
without Ohio and you`re all over Ohio today. I happen to know that you`re
from Ohio. Isn`t it hard for the Republicans to paint a picture that is
against what`s going on with the percentages in terms of unemployment? Let
me go come back to you, Jared. Because that was the point you were making.

BERNSTEIN: Yes, I think that`s very key. You know, this election is
always going to be about the economy but in a Midwestern state where the
autos play such a key role and you`ve got that manufacturing sector
beginning to come back.

SHARPTON: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: I`d be very interested to hear Lee talking about some of -
- that as well.

(CROSSTALK)

SHARPTON: I got Lee`s mic straight.

BERNSTEIN: OK.

SHARPTON: Isn`t it true Lee, you`ve been travelling around, I know
you`re from Ohio, that Ohio, the state that Republicans have to win or at
least they always had to win to win the election, with the unemployment
rate going down under eight percent in the 7s, even before the national,
isn`t it true that they give the Republicans an even more difficult task to
get Ohioans to vote for them?

SAUNDERS: I think it`s going to be very difficult for them but we`ve
got to continue to educate our folks and knock on those doors. Nothing
Jared was right. I mean, if you look at the rebirth of the auto industry,
President Obama, Joe Biden supported that. Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan did not.

This story that I`d like to tell you very quickly. And I`ve been
saying this across Ohio. But it`s not about Ohio. But it has an impact on
what is going on in Ohio and across this country. There`s a small auto
center plant in Illinois, in Freeport, Illinois, 170 workers represented by
the United Steel workers. They are being laid off, being laid off and
their jobs are being shipped to China. And what is interesting about this
is, is that not only are the jobs being shipped in China but they brought
the Chinese into Freeport, Illinois.

And they had to be trained by these workers. Trained by the folks
that are being laid off. Now, the connection is this, Bain Capital is
responsible for this. Bain Capital. And not only that, Al, but this is
the really killing part of this. They came in and there was an American
flag that was in that plant. They took down the American flag and they
raised the Chinese flag. That`s not the kind of America we want to be.
That`s not what Barack Obama and Joe Biden stand for. But this is Bain
Capital doing that. So, there`s got to be a connection between Bain
Capital and Mitt Romney.

SHARPTON: They took down an American flag. They took down an
American flag and hung a Chinese flag in Freeport, Illinois, that`s
connected to Bain.

SAUNDERS: That`s exactly right. Took it down and these workers are
protesting but they`re going to be laid off 170 United Steelworkers of
America. I was talking to Leo Gerard, the president of that union just the
other day about this. I mean, we`ve got to talk about these issues. We`ve
got to make sure that people understand the direction that Mitt Romney and
Paul Ryan want to take this country. They want to continue to ship jobs
overseas, they want to keep jobs in this country.

BERNSTEIN: Listening to Lee, I`m reminded about the role that labor
unions have played in this election. I don`t think we often talk about it
as quite as much as we should. One of the things, it`s very clear from
years of analysis, the impact of unions on the economy, one of the things
unions do very well is they help ensure a more equitable distribution of
the growth that their members, our workforce actually produced and we know
that there`s been a huge split between the economy`s productivity and the
compensation of the typical worker. Unions have always helped to make sure
that the slices of the pie are more equally distributed. And that`s a very
important function in our economy and that is one that`s missing as you see
battles in Wisconsin go up very strong against the public of the unions in
particular.

SHARPTON: Jared, let me ask you this. When we talk about fairness,
the big issue of tax cuts, Biden was able to corner Ryan on the mysterious
tax cuts they really can`t explain. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: Deny those loopholes and deductions to higher income taxpayers,
so that more of their income is taxed which has a broader base of taxation,
so we can lower tax rates across the board. Now, here`s why I`m saying
this. What we`re saying is --

BIDEN: I hope I`m going to get time to respond to this.

MARTHA RADDATZ, MODERATOR: You`ll get time, no specific.

RYAN: What we`re saying is, lower tax rate 20 percent, start with the
wealthy, work with Congress.

RADDATZ: And you guarantee this math will add up?

RYAN: Absolutely. Six studies have guaranteed. Six studies have
verified that this math adds up.

RADDATZ: Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: Let me translate that. Let me have a chance to translate
that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, Jared, the nonpartisan tax policy soon studied the
facts on the Romney-Ryan budget plan and they said, it is not
mathematically possible.

BERNSTEIN: Correct. Yes. So, here`s the arithmetic that the vice
president was getting at, just to attach some numbers to this. In the year
2014, the tax cut that the Governor Romney is proposing cuts $250 billion
from people whose income is over $200,000. Now, if you take away all the
tax expenditures, close all of the loopholes that he`s put on the table,
that gets you to $160 billion. There`s a $90 billion difference.

So they can`t offset their tax cuts, their $250 billion tax cuts with
160 billion of loophole closures. So, that 90 has to come out somewhere.
Either bigger budget deficit or they`re going to have to whack the middle
class. That`s the math, not one thing Representative Ryan said or Mitt
Romney has said has answered that question and they refuse to even get
close to it by specifying what loopholes they would even cut. They haven`t
announced one yet.

SHARPTON: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: And it`s really hurting them, as it should.

SHARPTON: I`m out of time, Lee and Jared. I`m going to have to leave
it there. Lee, I certainly want to talk to somebody in Freeport, Illinois,
about that flag change. Lee and Jared, thank you both for being here.
Have a great weekend.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you.

SAUNDERS: You too, Al.

SHARPTON: What do you call a moderator who asks smart questions,
challenges politicians, and has a lifetime of experience? If you`re a
right winger, you call it unfair. They are whining on the right wing.
That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We`re back with the big talker of the day. Who won the
debate? A poll of undecided voters has Joe Biden winning, 50 percent to 31
percent. But the right wing can`t handle it. The polls are skewed. It`s
a liberal media conspiracy. The Chicago team is cooking this up. And now
a new one. All they can talk about is Joe Biden smiling and laughing. Oh,
no, how dare he smile. Boo-hoo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: It was almost uncontrollable laughter,
almost unhinged, rude, condescending, mean at times, interruptive.

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: One of the most disrespectful moments
in presidential and vice-presidential debate history.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: A man who would not shut up, a
mean-spirited, rude, overbearing disrespectful vice president of the United
States.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: I thought that Joe
Biden came across like a guy that you meet at a cocktail party for some
political event, an obnoxious drunk who is loud and boisterous and
interrupts every conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Anyone smell the fear in the air?

Joining me now is Joe Madison, nationally syndicated radio host of
"Mornings with Madison." Joe, thanks for being here.

JOE MADISON, HOST, "MORNINGS WITH MADISON": I`m trying not to smile.

SHARPTON: Yes, well, I can`t help it. It beats crying.

MADISON: Yes.

SHARPTON: But they are talking about laughter. I mean, what does
that tell you?

MADISON: Well, look, it tells you that`s the only thing they can hang
their hat on. Any time the only thing or the most important thing you can
say about your opponent in a debate is what he`s wearing or how he looks
means that you lost the debate on substance. Look, Reverend, just pray for
me for a moment. Joe Biden opened up a can of whoop you know what?

SHARPTON: Right.

MADISON: And he enjoyed doing it. He cleaned his clock. And I
think, quite honestly, one of the things we don`t want to get distracted on
because of their talking points about him smiling is, don`t forget the real
substances of the debate.

SHARPTON: Right.

MADISON: Reproduction rights for women. They couldn`t alienate the
tax loopholes that they were going to cut for the middle class.

SHARPTON: Right.

MADISON: And there were any number of things that he got --

SHARPTON: Privatizing Social Security. I mean --

MADISON: Privatizing Social Security. And Biden did something that
we said, the President should have done in the first debate, is when he
looked into that camera and said to seniors, wait a minute, have you lost
any kind of benefits on your Medicare, on your Medicaid, who do you trust?
These are the things that really hit home.

SHARPTON: Yes.

MADISON: So, you know, this is just -- and the other thing is, they
got some of their own medicine. How many times have you been on programs
and they`ve laughed and grimaced at you when you tried to make a point.
This is just deflecting what they do all the time and they got some of
their own medicine.

SHARPTON: Well, Rush Limbaugh weighed in today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIMBAUGH: I don`t know what the Ryan strategy was. Well, I`m pretty
confident that I do, actually. I think it was be respectful of a lunatic
in hope, create an atmosphere where the lunatic thinks that he`s winning
everything is just going to make him freer and the less inhibited to be who
he really is and old Joey played right along with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The vice president of the United States is a lunatic but
they didn`t stop there. Joe, before you respond, they went after the
moderator. Martha Raddatz got it from all sides.

Sean Hannity says, "Martha Raddatz is the worst moderator." Laura
Ingraham raised a question, "Why does Raddatz want to move on when Ryan is
getting traction?" Erick Erickson at Red State Rights, "She was in
reality, atrocious." And Karl Rove tweeted at the end of last night`s
debate, "I miss Jim Lehrer."

MADISON: He`s the only one that missed him. The reality is that,
look, she was equal opportunity get you. There were even times that she
went after Vice President Biden.

SHARPTON: Yes. No doubt.

MADISON: And everybody knows it. You know, actually, I remind people
that we have a lot of people at Sirius XM listened only on the radio and
immediately understood who won that debate without worrying about how the
president smiled. Look, I think he signaled us, every time he knew he
hurts, he`s going to hear something that was absolutely ridiculous, un-
provable, that smile came on and that really was a signal for us to pay
close attention to what we were about to hear and he recognized, even
before Ryan finished, that it was ridiculous and that`s what that smile was
all about.

SHARPTON: Yes. I`m going to have to leave it there, Joe. Thanks.
Have a good weekend.

MADISON: You too, Rev.

SHARPTON: Thank you, Joe Madison.


MADISON: Thank you.

SHARPTON: We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We learned a lot last night. We learned that the vice
president loves to laugh. I say better laugh than cry. We learned that
Paul Ryan needs to hydrate, a lot. It was really nice to see the vice
president embrace Paul Ryan`s mother and to see them chat a few minutes
together. But last night we also got a revealing look at what life might
be like in a Romney/Ryan administration.

Social Security outsourced to Wall Street. Medicare would become
voucher care. Abortion illegal. Women`s rights taking a back seat.
Clearly, there`s so much at stake, let`s not get sidetracked by body
language. Let the focus be where it needs to be on what the Romney/Ryan
policies would do to this country. And then let`s get to work 25 days
until Election Day.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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