updated 10/18/2012 1:12:10 PM ET 2012-10-18T17:12:10

THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ
October 17, 2012


Guests: Bob Shrum, Cecile Richards, James Hoffa, Karen Finney

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

Twenty days until the 2012 election. And didn`t you just love that
last night? President Obama went on offense and put Mitt Romney on the
ropes. Tonight, we`ll tell you who won the debate and if this is a game
changer.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody here has
heard of the New Deal? You`ve heard of the fair deal? You`ve heard of the
square deal? Mitt Romney`s trying to sell you a sketchy deal.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The thumping continues on the stump.

OBAMA: Please proceed.

SCHULTZ: The president breaks out the Trapper Keeper on Mitt Romney.

OBAMA: We don`t have to collect a bunch of binders to find qualified,
talented, driven, young women.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, the untold story of the debate. Not only did
President Obama dominate --

OBAMA: Candy, what Governor Romney said just isn`t true.

SCHULTZ: But Mitt Romney was just awful.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I want to make sure we get
that for the record.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum and Michael Steele with the analysis.

Cecile Richards on Romney`s growing disaster with women voters.

ROMNEY: They brought us whole binders full of women.

SCHULTZ: James Hoffa on the president`s China smack down.

OBAMA: Governor, you`re the last person who`s going to get tough on
China.

SCHULTZ: And call the wambulance again. FOX News is freaking out.

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS: The problem was Candy Crowley.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: She sort of waded in to help the president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They should just eliminate moderators overall.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching.

If you saw President Obama today, you noticed a little spring in his
step. The president was back on the campaign trail in the state of Ohio
today, fresh off his successful debate performance.

It`s pretty obvious. The president thinks last night went pretty well
for him, especially his attacks on Mitt Romney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: So let`s recap what we learned last night. His tax plan
doesn`t add up. His jobs plan doesn`t create jobs. His deficit reduction
plan adds to the deficit.

We`ve been there. We`ve tried that. We`re not going back. We`re
moving forward.

That`s why I need your vote. We`ve got to finish what we started in
2008.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The president feels good and so does his base. He turned
around a lot of dejected supporters with his energetic performance last
night, no doubt.

Mitt Romney was trying to keep spirits high at a campaign rally in
Virginia, but his stump speech -- well, it was a little bit different. For
instance, there was not one word about the administration`s response to
Libya. Interesting.

A week ago, Romney was giving lengthy speeches to military cadets
about the Libya response. He tried to use the Benghazi attack to his
advantage in last night`s debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: On the day following the assassination of the United States
ambassador, the first time that`s happened since 1979, when we have four
Americans killed there, when apparently we didn`t know what happened, that
the president, the day after that happened, flies to Las Vegas for a
political fund-raiser, then the next day to Colorado for another event,
another political event.

I think these actions taken by a president and a leader have symbolic
significance. And perhaps even material significance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The following exchange between the candidates and moderator
Candy Crowley sealed the deal for the president and the debate victory. It
also gave President Obama a major advantage on the Libya issue. Everyone
is talking about these two minutes today, and with good cause.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Does the buck stop with your secretary of state as far as
what went on here?

OBAMA: Secretary Clinton has done an extraordinary job, but she works
for me. I`m the president and I`m always responsible.

And that`s why nobody`s more interested in finding out exactly what
happened than I do.

The day after the attack, Governor, I stood in the Rose Garden, and I
told the American people and the world that we were going to find out
exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror, and I also said that
we`re going to hunt down those who committed this crime. And then a few
days later, I was there greeting the caskets coming into Andrews Air Force
Base, and grieving with the families.

And the suggestion that anybody on my team, whether it was the
secretary of state, our U.N. ambassador, anybody on my team, would play
politics or mislead when we`ve lost four of our own, Governor, is
offensive. That`s not what we do. That`s not what I do as president.
That`s not what I do as commander-in-chief.

CROWLEY: Governor, if you want to reply just quickly.

ROMNEY: I certainly do. I think it`s interesting the president just
said something, which is that, on the day after the attack, he went in the
Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror.

OBAMA: That`s what I said.

ROMNEY: You said, in the Rose Garden, the day after the attack, it
was an act of terror. It was not a spontaneous demonstration.

OBAMA: Please proceed.

ROMNEY: Is that what you`re saying?

OBAMA: Please proceed, Governor.

ROMNEY: I want to make sure we get that for the record, because it
took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act
of terror.

OBAMA: Get the transcript.

CROWLEY: He did, in fact, sir. So let me call it an act of terror --

OBAMA: Can you say that a little louder, Candy?

CROWLEY: He did call it an act of terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The videotape doesn`t lie. Candy Crowley and the president
were correct.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great
nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we
stand for. Today, we mourn for more Americans who represent the very best
of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to
see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake:
justice will be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In fact, President Obama was even more explicit about the
act of terror a day later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: What I want all of you to know is that we are going to bring
those who killed our fellow Americans to justice. I want people around the
world to hear me, to all of those who would do us arm, no act of terror
will go unpunished. It will not dim the light of the values that we
proudly present to the rest of the world. No act of violence shakes the
resolve of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney`s debate blunder exposed him as a lightweight on
foreign policy. Only one man on stage looked like the president during the
Libya exchange last night.

It was a lot different than the Mitt Romney who looked is so confident
as he told lie after lie during the debate in Denver two weeks ago. Back
in Colorado, we saw a guy named moderate Mitt.

Last night, Romney tried to fool everyone with moderate Mitt once
again. Watch his very first answer of the night, in response to a question
from a college student.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I want to make sure we keep our Pell Grant program growing.
We`re also going to have our loan program, so that people are able to
afford school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Holy smokes! All of a sudden moderate Mitt loves Pell
Grants. Even though the real Romney supports demolishing the Pell Grant
program through Paul Ryan`s budget, which, of course, he says he supports.

President Obama never let Mitt Romney define the terms of the debate,
especially on Romney`s economic plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Now, Governor Romney was a very successful investor. If
somebody came to you, Governor, with a plan that said, here, I want to
spend $7 trillion or $8 trillion, and we`re going to pay for it, but we
can`t tell you until maybe after the election how we`re going to do it, you
haven`t have taken such a sketchy deal, and neither should you, the
American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: President Obama also reminded voters of what the real Mitt
Romney says on the campaign trail. Not the Washington whitewash from
moderate Mitt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: When Governor Romney stands here, after a year of campaigning.
When during a Republican primary, he stood on stage and said, I`m going to
give tax cuts -- he didn`t say tax rate cuts, he said tax cuts, to
everybody, including the top 1 percent, you should believe him, because
that`s been his history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: When President Obama was given the chance to compare Mitt
Romney with George Bush, he said Romney was more right wing than the former
president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: There are some things where Governor Romney is different from
George Bush. Heck, George Bush didn`t propose turning Medicare into a
voucher. George Bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform. He didn`t
call for self-deportation. George Bush never suggested that we eliminate
funding for Planned Parenthood.

So there are differences between Governor Romney and George Bush, but
they`re not on economic policy. In some ways, he`s gone to a more extreme
place when it comes to social policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: This onslaught by President Obama put Mitt Romney in a rough
position. Just like his answer on Libya, Romney had to move out of his
comfort zone to respond to these allegations. He tried to say that he
would be tough on China and President Obama blasted him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Trade -- I`ll crack down on China. President Bush didn`t.

OBAMA: When he talks about getting tough on China, keep in mind that
Governor Romney invested in companies that were pioneers of outsourcing to
China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: When Romney tried to define his self-deportation policy on
immigration. Again, President Obama knocked Romney off of his game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Self-deportation says let people make their own choice. What
I was saying is, we`re not going to round up 12 million people,
undocumented, illegals and take them out of the nation. Instead, let
people make their own choice. And if they find that they can`t get the
benefits here that they want and they can`t find the job they want, then
they`ll make a decision to go a place where they have better opportunities.

OBAMA: His top adviser on immigration is the guy who designed the
Arizona law, the entirety of it -- not E-verify, the entire thing. That`s
his whole policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney was on unsure footing for most of the night. He did
a good job putting himself in a corner on a major issue and the president
didn`t have to say a thing.

Here`s Romney answering a question on equal pay for women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I recognize that if you`re going to have women in the
workforce, that sometimes you need to be more flexible. My chief of staff,
for instance, had two kids who were still in school. She said, I can`t be
here until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. I need to be able to get home at 5:00,
so I can be there making dinner for my kids and being with them when they
get home for them. So I said, fine, let`s have a flexible schedule so you
can have hours that will work for you.

We`re going to have employers in the new economy, in the economy that
I`m going to bring to play, that are going to be so anxious to get good
workers, that they`re going to be anxious to hire women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney had no answer for fixing pay and equality in America.
He wants to hire more women and give them flexible schedules so they can go
home and cook dinner.

He may have lost the women`s vote last night. President Obama saved
his best for last. He delivered a closing argument as the clock ran out
and Mitt Romney had no ability to respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I believe Governor Romney`s a good man. He loves his family,
cares about his faith.

But I also believe that when he said, behind closed doors, that 47
percent of the country consider themselves victims, who refuse personal
responsibility, think about who he was talking about. Folks on Social
Security who have worked all their lives. Veterans, who have sacrificed
for this country. Students, who are out there, trying to hopefully advance
their own dreams, but also this country`s dreams. Soldiers, who are
overseas, fighting for us right now. People who are working hard every
day, paying payroll tax, gas taxes, but don`t make enough income.

And I want to fight for them. That`s what I`ve been doing for the
last four years, because if they succeed, I believe the country succeeds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: This was an answer Democrats wanted and the American people
needed to hear. This was a debate where President Obama had to deliver.
He did.

I would venture to say that there are some Americans who have paid no
attention to any of this, until the first three debates. Of course, the
one with the vice president as well.

What we`ve learned about Mitt Romney is that he`s rude. He`s a bully.
He`s a guy who always seems to get his way and doesn`t like it when it
doesn`t turn out good for him.

We`ve also learned that Romney has an innate ability to be
disrespectful. Last night he showed little respect for the moderator,
little respect for the president. He even told the president, "You`ll get
your turn."

In fact, Romney shows little respect for women, for women`s rights,
for workers, for workers` rights. Look at what he does to workers. We`ll
tell that story on Friday, from Freeport, Illinois.

Mitt Romney`s utter and complete disregard for the middle class, I
think, was on full display last night. He can`t make the pitch to the
middle class because he doesn`t understand them.

But there was something else on display last night. And that was the
intensity of the president of the United States. That intensity left a lot
of supporters very confident.

And as I start this broadcast every night, I think they`re thinking
this -- let`s get to work.

Get your cell phones out, I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: who won last night`s debate? Text "A" for President Obama, text
"B" for Mitt Romney to 622639. And you can always go to our blog at
Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

Coming up, former RNC chair Michael Steele and NYU professor Bob
Shrum. We`ll break it all down, the best moments of last night`s debate.
Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, can we come to an agreement? President Obama
came out strong in last night`s debate. Will it have an impact on the
polls? Will it have an impact on how people vote? Bob Shrum and Michael
Steele will give me the full debate analysis and discussion, next.

Then, a Massachusetts women`s group sets the record straight on Mitt
Romney`s binders. But his campaign can`t do the same on his stand on equal
pay.

And while Romney promises to get tough on China, tell that to the
workers in Freeport, Illinois, because they`re losing their jobs to the
folks in China because of his business policies. I`ll talk to Teamsters
president, James Hoffa.

Share your thoughts with us on Facebook and on Twitter using #EdShow.
We are coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: That`s why I put up a five-point plan, that gets America 12
million new jobs in four years and rising take-home pay.

OBAMA: Governor Romney`s says he`s got a five-point plan. Governor
Romney doesn`t have a five-point plan. He has a one-point plan.

And that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a
different set of rules. That`s been his philosophy in the private sector.
That`s been his philosophy as governor, that`s been his philosophy as a
presidential candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Thanks for watching tonight.

President Obama came out swinging last night and gave the motivation
that the base was looking for. Over 65 million people watched the debate.
So don`t you think that curiosity was a little high on how the president
was going to recover from debate number one?

President Obama ended the idea of moderate Mitt, by exposing Romney`s
far-right policies and actually cornering him on the issues. He put Romney
on the defensive, resulting in a petty, childish performance by the
Republican challenger.

President Obama was clear, straight forward, and made solid arguments
-- point after point. His performance changed the game and moved the ball
forward for his campaign. The mojo is back with them.

The meanwhile, the "Real Clear Politics" average of all polls, you
know, it doesn`t really show that, at least not yet, anyway. Mitt Romney
with a 0.4 percentage lead over President Obama.

It will be interesting to track in the next 48 hours.

For more, let`s turn to Bob Shrum, professor of public policy at NYU
and contributor at the "Daily Beast".

Also with us tonight, Michael Steele, MSNBC contributor and former
chairman of the RNC.

Gentleman, great to have you with us tonight.

Bob, you first. Can we call it a clear win for President Obama? I
mean, there was so much talk about what the president had to do going into
this debate. I think it`s pretty common knowledge in the blogosphere and
on talk radio that it was a good performance by the president.

But will this move the polls? What do you think?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: He did it all. He did everything
he had to do. I think it will move the polls. We`ll have to wait a few
days to see that.

We saw that after the first debate two weeks ago, when I said that I
thought the president lost. I thought he clearly won last night.

He was helped by Romney. He was helped by Romney for two reasons.
One, Romney made a classic mistake. He came to the second debate,
thoroughly prepared for the first debate. He said the same lines, often
using the same words that he had said two weeks ago.

So he had telegraphed every line, he had telegraphed his arguments.
The president knew what he was going to say and was prepared to box him, to
call him, to hold him accountable.

Secondly, on style, Romney was like the hall monitor. And then he was
lake a frustrated guy who, because he couldn`t have everything his way.

You know, if ownership on the wrong side of the gender gap, I wouldn`t
fight with a female moderator of a debate. I wouldn`t try to bully her.
And it`s even worse if you end up failing.

SCHULTZ: Michael, is there any issue that Mitt Romney gained ground
on last night?

MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I think he did, on the Libya
piece.

SHRUM: Michael! You`re not serious! Come on, you can`t be serious.
I mean, you can`t be serious about that! It was a disaster. It was a
train wreck.

STEELE: Bob, can I make my point?

(CROSSTALK)

STEELE: Bob, you do this all the time. Let me make my point.

SHRUM: I just didn`t think you would come --

SCHULTZ: Gentleman, gentleman.

STEELE: Let me just make the point.

SCHULTZ: Let`s restate the question.

STEELE: Thank you!

SCHULTZ: There`s been a lot of folks out there who have said there
was a clear victory for President Obama. But did --

STEELE: I would agree with that.

SCHULTZ: But -- you would agree with that, but is there any subject
that you think he gained on? You think it`s Libya?

STEELE: I think there are two. I think there are two. I think,
again, on the economy, and the instapolls, if you will, after that showed,
yes, Obama won on the points, but on the substance of the argument and
Romney laid out, I think, a very good indictment on the economy. He`s very
effective at making that point and stressing that point.

Folks, the voters sided with Romney two to one in the CNN poll
afterwards. So that is, that is a nice setup for the last debate.

The point I was going to make on Libya --

SCHULTZ: Sure.

STEELE: It was awkward. It was mishandled. But the reality of it
is, going into a debate that the last debate only on foreign policy, it
opened up a lot of questions that the moderator can dig down on. The
president`s going to have to be on point on. There`s going to be a
timeline that`s going to be discussed.

And trust me, Mr. Shrum, the Democrats and the president does not want
to be having this discussion about the ins and outs about what happened in
Libya two weeks before an election.

SCHULTZ: Bob, what about that?

STEELE: So I think that there is an opportunity there for Romney to
stress these points.

SHRUM: Look, this is neocon nonsense, Mr. Steele.

STEELE: OK.

SHRUM: The fact of the matter is that the Republicans somehow have
the illusion that they can make the case that this president has been weak
on foreign policy or national security. He has about a 20-point lead on
that in most of the polls. So, if Mitt Romney thinks he`s going to be back
in this game or is going to make a lot of progress by focusing on Libya, I
think he`s making a big mistake.

STEELE: Well, Bob, secondly --

(CROSSTALK)

STEELE: He`s in the game. That`s your problem. He`s in the game.

SHRUM: The CNN poll was eight points more Republican than Democratic
about --

(CROSSTAL)

STEELE: It`s just something the president doesn`t want to talk about.

SCHULTZ: OK, gentlemen --

SHRUM: Look -- I talked to a Republican consultant today who`s as
sensible as you usually are, who said it`s unfortunate the last debate`s on
foreign policy. We need to get back to the economy.

I think Mitt Romney, for example, would be a lot smarter to try to
talk about China and see if he could connect that to jobs issues here in
the U.S. He`s not going to make progress on this Libya issue. He just
qualified himself --

SCHULTZ: Michael Steele, what about --

(CROSSTALK)

STEELE: We`ll see, Bob.

SCHULTZ: Hold on, gentlemen, hold on, hold on. I`ve got to ask
Michael Steele about this. What about the president`s response about the
very next day in the Rose Garden, he talked about an act of terror? I
mean, are we -- that doesn`t qualify?

STEELE: No, no, it does qualify, but then the question, this gets
into the nuance and the semantics of what the president was referring to
when he said that.

SCHULTZ: OK.

STEELE: Is he specifically talking about this event in Benghazi, or
was he talking more broadly about terrorism as a whole?

SCHULTZ: So, it wasn`t specific enough.

STEELE: I read the transcript, and for my interpretation, he was not
-- eight paragraphs later --

SHRUM: Actually, two sentences are right next to each other.

STEELE: Bob, read the transcripts.

SHRUM: He said, acts of terror are unacceptable. The killing of our
people in Benghazi will be -- the people who will be brought to justice.

STEELE: Read the transcript.

SHRUM: Why would he -- I did read it. Why --

STEELE: No, you didn`t.

SHRUM: Why would he talk about an act of terror and then talk about
Benghazi right afterwards. Was it a random thought, he was just sticking
at top of the transcript?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: Michael Steele, go ahead. Bob, let him talk.

STEELE: Since you`re so cocksure about all of this, Bob --

SHRUM: No, I`m not cocksure. I can listen, can I hear, and I can
understand.

STEELE: Bob, let me make my point.

SHRUM: And I think you guys are despicable for trying to exploit the
death of these Americans.

STEELE: Let me make my point.

SCHULTZ: OK, final point, Michael.

STEELE: The point is, if all of this was so true and the president
meant specifically one he was talking about terrorism related to Benghazi,
then why did his secretary of state, was silent on the point for 14 days?
Why did he send his U.N. ambassador across every network imaginable,
talking about something other than clarifying --

SCHULTZ: OK.

STEELE: -- and defining this as a terrorist act?

SCHULTZ: And we will leave it there, because the third and final
debate will be on foreign policy.

Gentleman, we have to have you back talking about that as a preview.

STEELE: You got it.

SCHULTZ: And, Michael Steele --

SHRUM: And, Michael, watch the first part of this show, where they
showed the tape.

SCHULTZ: All right. Intensity, very high. Great, gentleman. Great
to have you with us.

SHRUM: OK, thank you.

STEELE: Love you, Bob!

SCHULTZ: All right. Binders full of women. Is that Mitt Romney`s
answer to pay inequality? Is that his answer to pay inequity in this
country? The president of Planned Parenthood, Cecile Richards, will weigh
in next.

Then the other side admits defeat. And we know this because they are
complaining about what? The moderator. Karen Finney joins me.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SAM STEIN, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": Yeah, does Governor Romney support
the Lily Ledbetter Act?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sam, we`ll get back to you on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yeah, we`ll get back to you on that. We have to play that
to be fair to the story. That was the Romney campaign response on equal
pay for women back in April. That would be six months ago.

Six months later, still don`t have any answers. Last night, both
candidates were asked about pay equity. President Obama pointed to the
very first bill he signed, the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which gives
women the ability to sue over pay inequity.

Mitt Romney ignored the question, and instead discussed appointing
women to top jobs while he was governor of Massachusetts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: And I went to my staff, and I said, how come all the people
for these jobs are all men? And they said, well, these are the people that
have the qualifications. And I said, well, gosh, can`t we -- can`t we find
some women that are also qualified?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, in 2002, Mitt Romney was 55 years old. And he had
been a leader in the business world for decades. Why didn`t he know any
qualified women to appoint?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: And so we took a concerted effort to go out and find women
who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our
cabinet. I went to a number of women`s groups and said, can you help us
find folks. And they brought us whole binders full of women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That response prompted a huge response on social media. But
Governor Romney`s story doesn`t quite add up. As "the Huffington Post"
reports, the bipartisan women`s coalition MassGap approached both Romney
and his Democratic challenger before the 2002 gubernatorial election and
pressured them to sign a pledge to appoint more women if they get elected.

The group`s former chairwoman says Romney had little personal
involvement with the group. Instead, Romney tasked his female nominee for
lieutenant governor, Carey Healey, to work with the organization. MassGap
presented the binders and highlighted qualified applicants to Healey after
Romney was elected.

President Obama called out Romney`s remark earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I`ve got to tell you, we don`t have to collect a bunch of
binders to find qualified, talented, driven young women, ready to learn and
teach in these fields, right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: As for equal pay for equal work, Romney`s campaign is still
struggling to come up with a response. Following the debate, Romney`s
senior adviser, Ed Gillespie, told "the Huffington Post," the governor
"would not repeal the Lily Ledbetter Act. He was opposed to it at the
time. He would not repeal it."

Well, the sun came up and today Gillespie is telling a different
story. "I was wrong when I said last night Governor Romney opposed the
Lily Ledbetter Act. He never weighed in on it. As president, he would not
seek to repeal it."

Let`s turn to Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Action
Fund, who is joining us tonight on behalf of the Obama campaign. Miss
Richards, great to have you with us tonight. What does -- what did we find
out about Mitt Romney last night with this exchange?

CECILE RICHARDS, PLANNED PARENTHOOD ACTION FUND: Well, it seems like
what we found out is that he can`t even answer a straight question. I
thought that young woman, she -- it was very clear what she wanted to know.
It was where was he on equal pay. This is not a surprise question. And
the fact that he could not answer it honestly is just indicative of what
he`s tried to do on every women`s issue, which is to muddy the waters and
never give a direct answer.

I think that`s -- and again, as you`ve repeated, it`s clear he`s not
only not supportive of equal pay, he`s not a leader on women`s issues. And
I think women saw that quite clearly last night.

SCHULTZ: Do you think that women in this country will be curious as
to how a guy could be in the private sector for so many years and make so
much money, yet not know any qualified women that he might want to turn to?

RICHARDS: Look, I thought the entire debate, Mr. Romney seemed like
he was stuck in the 1950s. And so on the equal pay, clearly completely out
to lunch. When it comes to women`s health care -- and obviously at Planned
Parenthood, we care a lot about that. This is a guy who`s saying he wants
to repeal Roe. He wants to turn the clock back 40 years in this country
for women.

He wants to let bosses decide whether or not women can get birth
control coverage. He wants to -- in his own words, he`s going to get rid
of Planned Parenthood. I feel like he is out of touch with what women need
in this country. I thought that was clearly on display last night.

SCHULTZ: Here`s more of Romney talking about women in the workplace
last night. Let`s look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Because I recognize that if you`re going to have women in the
workforce, that sometimes they need to be more flexible. My chief of
staff, for instance, had two kids that were still in school. She said, I
can`t be here until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. I need to be able to get home
at 5:00, so I can be there making dinner for my kids and being with them
when they get home from school. So we said, fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: "The New York Times" editorial page got after that today.
They wrote, "flexibility is a good policy, but what if a woman had wanted
to go home early to study Spanish or rebuild an old car or spend time with
her lesbian partner? Would Mr. Romney have been flexible about that? Or
if a man wanted similar treatment? True equality is not satisfied by
allowing the little lady to go home early and tend to her children."

Your thoughts on this exchange?

RICHARDS: Look, I`m going to just go back to the another point, which
I think is so abundantly clear to women. One of the biggest reasons that
women have actually been able to enter the workforce, been able to get
higher education degrees, take new jobs, pursue a career, is because of
family planning. This is -- now 99 percent of women in this country use
birth control.

Yet Mitt Romney wants to turn back the clock on this too. He really,
literally -- and they were completely disingenuous about this last night.
Mitt Romney supported the Blunt Amendment, which would have let any
employer in this country refuse to provide birth control for his employees.
And he wants to get rid of Planned Parenthood, which provides health care
to three million folks every single year.

So he is not on the side of women, on women entering the workforce, on
women getting ahead, on these very fundamental issues of access to health
care.

I thought President Obama laid out the case very clearly. He has been
a president that has been for women from day one. Obviously, the Lily
Ledbetter Fair Pay Act was the first bill. And he is -- he has a record of
standing up for women.

I think Mitt Romney is lost back in, you know, decades.

SCHULTZ: Cecile Richards, great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW.
Thanks for joining us tonight.

RICHARDS: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: There`s a lot more coming in the next half hour of THE ED
SHOW. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: She committed an act of
journalistic terror or malpractice last night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t be the ref when you`re the moderator.
You absolutely cannot.

(CROSS TALK)

SCHULTZ: The right wing wambulance rides again after another Romney
disaster. Up next, Karen Finney on what all the complaining about Crowley
really means.

First, it was pots and pans. Now it`s the Cleveland Browns. I`ll
tell you about Paul Ryan`s latest failed attempt to pander to Ohio voters.

And President Obama gets tough on Mitt Romney about getting tough on
China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Governor, you`re the last person who`s going to get tough on
China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: James Hoffa of the Teamsters is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Out of all of the issues in last night`s debate, the
candidates kept circling back and talking about China. In fact, the word
China came up 21 times last night. So what`s the point?

Mitt Romney repeated his old stump speech line about getting tough on
China. But his business philosophies, you have to admit if you`re fair
minded, tell a totally different story. As we speak, Sensata technologies
in Freeport, Illinois, is packing up and shipping out to China. Almost 200
Americans are losing their jobs. Bain Capital controls ownership of this
company.

So Mitt Romney`s personal pile of money is going to get bigger.
Sensata can turn a bigger profit with cheaper labor in China. It`s the
Romney economy. But Romney acts like he feels the pain of the American
worker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: The place where we`ve seen manufacturing go has been China.
China is now the largest manufacturer in the world. Used to be the United
States of America. A lot of good people have lost jobs. People think it`s
more attractive, in some cases, to go offshore than to stay here.

We have made it less attractive for enterprises to stay here than to
go offshore from time to time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Less attractive? Those workers in China are going to make
99 cents an hour, as opposed to 17 dollars an hour in Freeport, Illinois.
I can`t wait to take the show there ton Friday night and let the workers
tell the story about how Mitt Romney is going to be tough on China.

President Obama wants to close the tax loopholes, so it`s not as
attractive for Romney`s own company to ship jobs overseas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Keep in mind that Governor Romney invested in companies that
were pioneers of outsourcing to China.

That`s -- governor, you`re the last person who`s going to get tough on
China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in James Hoffa, president of the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters. Mr. Hoffa, great to have you with us tonight.

JAMES HOFFA, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS: Good
to be here.

SCHULTZ: You bet. At any time during this campaign, especially last
night -- we`ll focus on that -- has Mitt Romney convinced anybody that he`s
an advocate for the middle class? This economy that he`s talking about, he
says that we have shipped the jobs over there, as if our market and our
workers aren`t good enough. Your response?

HOFFA: Well, that`s more of this Romney double talk about -- he wants
to lower the standards. I saw last night is the code word for, we can be
more competitive if we didn`t have unions, if we didn`t have, you know,
standards here in this country, if we didn`t have a minimum wage. We could
do a lot of manufacturing.

I thought that was a code word to basically, let`s reduce the standard
of living for the American worker and then we`ll have all of this
manufacturing here. That`s not America. That`s not what we believe in.
And that is what`s wrong and flawed about everything he does.

And also his record at Bain Capital. He saw nothing wrong with
closing down factories here and moving them to China. His record speaks
for itself. So he can`t come before us now, when he`s, you know, running
for president and say, oh, isn`t it terrible these jobs went over there?
He`s for it.

And the only way he`s saying that these jobs can come back is that
we`ll lower standards. The president`s got it right. The president`s
saying, let`s get rid of any incentive to, you know, move jobs overseas.
In fact, we`ll make it an incentive to build a factory here. And tell
these big corporations that have billions and billions and trillions of
dollars to make and build the factories here instead of shipping them to
China.

Don`t try and be so greedy. Help America be strong.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Hoffa, are you satisfied with President Obama`s actions
on China in his first four years in office?

HOFFA: Well, I think he`s done some things. He`s brought over seven
different actions with the WTO against China. This has to deal with steel,
tires, auto.

SCHULTZ: Bush never did that.

HOFFA: He`s on the right track. I think that`s good. But I think he
should be doing more. We`ve got a dialogue with China. China`s not going
away. It`s an important market. But they`ve got to open up their market.
Basically, it`s a one-way trade right now. Our trade deficit was 282
billion dollars in `11. And it`s going to be worse this time. It`s going
to be in the 300, 350 billion this time.

They`ve got to open up their market if they`re going to be our trading
partners. And they`re not doing that. So we`ve got to basically use the
WTO, use whatever we can. But we`ve got to open up that market so we can
make products here in the United States, made by Americans. Let`s put them
on a boat and send them to China. That`s the way to trade.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Hoffa, great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate
your time on THE ED SHOW. Thanks so much.

And a programming note, we will be live with THE ED SHOW in Freeport,
Illinois, this Friday night, broadcasting from what`s become known as
Bainport. We will be highlighting the devastating effects of outsourcing.
You`re not going to want to miss it. We`ll bring you the real stories of
what happened to those families.

And by the way, the Sensata plant had a record profit last year.

Coming up, it was a rough day for Paul Ryan in the world of sports.
He`s just a regular guy, you know? I`ll tell you how the VP candidate
managed to fumble with the Wisconsin Badgers and the Cleveland Brown fans,
all in one day? Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And we are back. No Republican has won the White House
without winning Ohio. So I guess we can expect the Republicans to probably
change the electoral college next. But between Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan,
the Republican ticket, they have visited the state a total of 45 times.
The last thing they want to do is alienate Ohio voters. I mean, they`re
looking for love, which put vice presidential candidate and Wisconsin
native Paul Ryan in a tough spot this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, "THE TODAY SHOW": Wisconsin will play Ohio State in a
football game. I want you to tell the people of Ohio who`s going to win
that game.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They -- they spoil -
- they spoiled us last year. We spoiled them the year before. And Jen and
I were at that game. It really depends on who has the better record is
going to lose, because that`s what happens.

LAUER: Who wins, congressman? Who`s going to win the game?

RYAN: -- on whose got the better record. It will -- it always depend
on who`s got the better record. It`s up at Camp Reynold this year. So
it`s in Madison this year. Home field advantage works well. But if we`re
doing better, they`ll beat us. And if they have a better record, then
we`ll beat them.

That`s always how it goes between the Badgers and the Buckeyes. How`s
that for an answer?

LAUER: It`s a terrible answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Badgers, don`t you feel the love? No home team loyalty
whatsoever. And that wasn`t the only Ohio sports-related mess that Ryan
found himself in today. On a visit to the Cleveland Browns practice
facility, Ryan took a moment to praise -- praise rookie quarterback Brandon
Whedon. Ryan recalled watching Whedon play for Oklahoma State.

Uh oh, we got a problem. Ryan told the story pointing at backup
quarterback Colt McCoy. According to the "Cleveland Plain Dealer," the
congressman pleaded for mercy and blamed helmets for mistaking McCoy for
red-headed Whedon. Might not seem like a big deal, but if you`re going to
pander to the sports fans, can you at least get the quarterback right?

Tonight in our survey, I asked you, who won last night`s debate?
Ninety six percent of you say President Obama; four percent of you say Mitt
Romney.

Coming up, when you`re complaining about the debate moderator, you`re
losing. And boy, was Fox News complaining last night, this morning, 24/7,
they`re complaining. Karen Finney joins me. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, oh, the whiners, they are out
and about. When the other side complains about the moderator -- lost.
It`s as simple as that. As soon as last night`s debate was over, RNC Chair
Reince Priebus, Romney surrogate John Sununu and their buddies at Fox News
were just hammering away at this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They seem to be clapping what the moderator was
saying, because she sort of weighed in to help the president.

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: I`m not going to whine about the rules
or the moderator. I will say, though, that tonight, point-blank, to the
president lied to the American people about Libya. I think the moderator
may have helped that along as well.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: We`ve got Candy Crowley`s
intervention, which was essentially incorrect. When you have the moderator
intervening on behalf of Obama, that, I think, swung it in a way that was
basically incorrect and unfair.

JOHN SUNUNU, ROMNEY CAMPAIGN ADVISER: And Candy Crowley had no
business during an on -- real time, if you will, trying to fact check,
because she was dead wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I tell you, they are amazing. This morning, the gang at
"Fox & Friends," well, they kept it up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the problem was Candy Crowley, who was
supposed to be the moderator, was -- and I saw Joe Trippi after the debate
last night say, it was like she was the ref. She threw a flag. You`re not
supposed to do that. The time for fact checking is after the event, not
during it.

She made a gigantic mistake. And I think Mr. Romney was knocked off
his kilter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t have a problem with Candy being a ref as
long as she`s right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you can`t be the ref when you`re the
moderator. You absolutely cannot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If somebody says something outrageous, of course
you have to be the ref. I just --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But in this case, she was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was wrong, that`s what I just said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, we certainly wouldn`t want truth to enter to the arena
at any time. Of course Candy Crowley was not wrong. But this didn`t stop
Tucker Carlson from taking it one step further.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, "THE DAILY CALLER": And she threw the president a
lifeline. There`s no question, she inserted herself again and again into
this debate. They should just eliminate moderators overall. Every one of
them wants to insert him or herself into this. They can`t help it.
They`re TV people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That`s right, just get rid of moderators. Free for all,
whatever. Although, particularly, if your guy is losing. Here`s Laura
Ingraham. She had another suggestion. This is a bright one. She Tweeted,
"shouldn`t we ditch the town hall debate format in 2016? If so, why? If
not, why not?"

And I thought to myself, God forbid if we actually have a taxpayer ask
a question to someone who wants to be the leader of the free world.

Joining me now is Karen Finney, MSNBC political analyst and former
communications director of the DNC. Let`s talk about Candy Crowley. Did
she go overboard?

I want to say that she, by profession, has been a reporter. And so
her instincts took over. The truth does matter. What do you make of all
of this, Karen?

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: It does matter. You know, it
was so interesting that also on Twitter, just to see -- I mean, the right
wing was coming unglued. And the fact that they were also arguing over the
difference between acts of terror and terrorism -- literally, that was the
argument that they were having as to whether or not the president really
said this.

Once we were confronting them with the actual video and the actual
transcript, then they went to, well, Candy shouldn`t have said that and she
was wrong. I mean, look, the reality is Mitt Romney has tried now twice to
politicize what happened in Benghazi. He told us in Boca Raton, when he
talked about the 47 percent, that he would do exactly that if the
opportunity arose.

He was wrong. He didn`t have his facts right. And now the right wing
is trying to cover for him.

SCHULTZ: I don`t know what kind of sound bite they`re looking for
from the president. He was very clear in the Rose Garden the day after the
attack. And we know that they`re really going after it. Here is another
complaint from the folks over at Fox. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was once again Candy Crowley, who is the
person who picked all of the questions. She also was in charge of the
clock. And who won? Well, as it turns out, when you look at the time, the
president did wind up getting about -- as you can see right there, a little
more than three minutes longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Actually, Candy should have let "Fox & Friends" make up all
the questions, don`t you think? I mean, how valid are these complaints?

FINNEY: Oh, absolutely. They`re ridiculous. And you know what, Ed?
Here`s the thing, they`re really doing Mitt Romney a disservice, because
this whining and complaining about semantics and about, you know, the
questions and about Candy really makes it seem like they don`t actually
have faith that their guy is ready for prime-time.

Why not -- why don`t they have this conversation about the substance?
I mean, Mitt Romney actually was OK. I mean, he did what he needed to do.
I thought President Obama was far superior and did an excellent job. But
you would think they would be trying to build up their candidate rather
than try to tear down the moderator to try to pretend like that was the
problem.

SCHULTZ: Well, this volley back and forth about Libya certainly sets
the table for the third and final debate, which is going to be on foreign
policy on Monday night. Karen Finney, great to have you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts
right now. And I want to say that I had no problems sleeping last night.
How about you?

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: I slept very soundly last night, in part
because I was so wrung out. It was fun to watch, wasn`t it, as a debate?

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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