updated 11/14/2012 10:35:32 AM ET 2012-11-14T15:35:32

THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ
November 13, 2012

Guests: Sherrod Brown, Mary Kay Henry, Nina Turner, Karen Finney, Joan Walsh, Michael Eric Dyson, Jim Moore


ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

Breaking news from the White House tonight: the president has
reportedly told progressive leaders he`s not budging on taxes.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD TRUMKA, AFL-CIO PRESIDENT: We`re prepared to stand up for
America. I think that`s what the president`s going got to do.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The campaign for the middle class begins at the
White House, and the campaign for millionaires has begun on the Senate
floor.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Half the Congress
opposes tax hikes.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, Mary Kay Henry of the Service Employees
International Union and Senator Sherrod Brown on the new campaign for the
middle class.

Paul Ryan is finally speaking, and he`s still in the bubble.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: I think the surprise was some of the
turnout -- some of the turnout especially in urban areas.

SCHULTZ: Ohio State Senator Nina Turner is here to respond.

And the petition to secede is growing with speed.

CROWD (singing): Deep in the heart of Texas!

SCHULTZ: Find out why I agree with Rick Perry. Texas is not allowed
to secede from the Union.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching.

President Obama came back to Washington to fight for fair deal on
taxes. Today, he called on his base. I love it. He went right to the
folks who put him in the White House.

President Obama held his first official closed door meeting with
groups from outside the White House. The invited guests were all leaders
of labor organizations and progressive think tanks.

Compare this list to the guest list for tomorrow`s meeting: 12 of the
most powerful CEOs in American business.

This schedule was not a mistake. President Obama was letting the
middle class and the workers of this country know, you come first.

AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka is confident the president will keep
his commitment to the current tax rates for the middle class.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMKA: The president led with that notion of protecting the middle
class, and now you have Republicans that have it in their power. They
could sign a bill tomorrow that protects the middle class, and we`ll see
what they can.

Are we going to push them on that? Without a doubt we`re going to
push them on that. Are we going to collectively stand up and make sure
that workers get a fair shake in all of this? Absolutely, we are. Do we
believe that the president is committed to that same thing? Absolutely, we
do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Details of the president`s off the record meeting are
emerging. "The Huffington Post" reports tonight, President Obama said he
will not extend the Bush tax cuts for those at the top.

"I am not going to budge. I said it in 2010 and I`m not going to do
it -- I`m going only going to do this once, and I meant it."

"The Huffington Post" source said that the president seemed to agree
that Social Security should not be part of any grand bargain, because it
didn`t add to the deficit.

Democrats are in a strong position. Republicans are trying to make it
seem like they are also in a strong position.

Listen to minority leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell talk tough on
the Senate floor today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: If the president is really serious about solving current
crises and avoiding future ones, he has it to step up and lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: McConnell was so bold when he was confronted by reporters.
He sat silently during a photo op with new Republican senators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEDIA MEMBER: Senator McConnell, are you willing to compromise?

SENATE STAFFER: Come on guys, go! Come on.

MEDIA MEMBER: Can you not push me and push everybody else?

SENATE STAFFER: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: McConnell is not responding because he doesn`t have an
answer. Democrats won decisively in the Senate last week. They protected
23 seats and picked up two more.

Plus, McConnell`s plan is exactly what the American people voted
against.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: The best way forward, the way that will lead to jobs and
growth, a smaller deficit and fewer political fights is to keep everybody`s
tax rights where they are for now, figure out a way to avoid the automatic
defense cuts scheduled to hit at the end of the year without cutting a
penny less than we promised, and committing to the kind of comprehensive
tax and entitlement reform that we all claim we want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: According to Mitch McConnell, the best way forward is to do
exactly what he wants.

This is not going to fly with the public. A new Pew poll shows 53
percent of the American people will blame Republicans if the country goes
over the fiscal cliff. Only 29 percent would blame the president of the
United States.

House Speaker John Boehner has less support each day for a hard line
approach. Republican opposition to tax increases is slipping in Congress.

Anti-tax lobbyist Grover Norquist no longer -- no longer has a
majority of supporters in either chamber. "The Hill" reports about a dozen
newly elected House Republicans refuse to sign the anti-tax pledge during
their campaigns and another handful of returning Republicans have disavowed
their alliance to the written commitment.

It`s about time. At least they paid attention to the election.
Today, conservative Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal scolded the entire
party for its approach to the economy.

Now, hold it right there. This comment, he sure sounds like a
Democrat.

"We`ve got to make sure that weren`t the party of big business, big
banks, big Wall Street bailouts, big corporate loopholes, big anything. We
cannot be, we must not be, the party that simply protects the rich so they
get to keep their toys."

Bobby, come on over to the good side, dude. You`re talking like a
conservative Democrat.

Momentum is on the president`s side. He just needs to know how
motivated his allies are.

The hard work didn`t end last Tuesday. Democrats scored big, but they
need to finish this game. The labor leaders who met with the president of
the United States today made it very clear. They will stay engaged. They
will do whatever it takes to go to the public to tell the story.

The campaign of last year is not over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

MARY KAY HENRY, PRESIDENT, SEIU: We`re united in a campaign
throughout this country.

LEE SAUNDERS, PRESIDENT, AFSCME: We`re going into another campaign.
We won the election, but we`re going into another campaign now. Our folks
realize that. They understand it.

HENRY: We need to stay as engaged as we were in the election.

DEEPAK BHARGAVA, CENTER FOR COMMUNITY CHANGE: We expressed our
commitment to keep this campaign going.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: OK. They are focused. I have to ask the question tonight.
Let`s say we`re in the big locker room here.

Are you focused? Are you ready to do this?

You know, if we put half the effort into making sure the president
gets what he needs from his base as we did working on voter suppression and
voter registration, we will get what we have to get to turn this country
around financially.

The big -- what I don`t want to see the Democrats do is go out and do
a long-term deal. No, no, no. Do a short-term deal. Make it two years.

Let`s come back and revisit this for 2014. I say that because it will
be certainly an election year issue. But most of all, if we can start
getting money into the Treasury and make some progress and just start to
chip away at it and move it down and prove that the wealthiest Americans
can pay a little bit more and we can make some progress with the Treasury,
it will be a great time to really put the hammer down in 2014 and prove to
the country that we`re headed in the right direction.

Just remember the chart that we always love to show on this program,
the vulture chart. The red liners up there -- don`t tell me that they
can`t pay a little bit more.

And it encourages me big-time when I hear the president -- off the
record, I don`t know how it slipped out of the meeting -- but somebody said
that wasn`t going to budge. That`s music to my ears. That should be
motivating to every American who voted for this president that we`re going
to get what we want out of this. We`re going to start to fix this
Treasury.

Yes, there`s going to be some cuts, but those wealthiest Americans,
those vultures up on the top line, they`re going to have to a little bit
pay more.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: do you support the fight over the fiscal cliff?
Text A for President Obama and the Democrats and text B for the
Republicans, to 622639. You can go always go to our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com.
We`ll bring you the results later in the show.

Joining me now is state senator -- excuse me -- U.S. Senator Sherrod
Brown. We got Nina Turner coming up later on.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: I like -- I like watching -- I love
watching Nina on your show.

SCHULTZ: I get you passionate Ohio folks mixed up every now and then.

BROWN: That`s OK. I can live with that.

SCHULTZ: All right. Sherrod Brown with us and, also, Mary Kay Henry,
president of the Service Employees International Union, who met with the
president today.

And I would be remiss, Mary Kay, if I did not ask you right off the
bat, did the president say that he was not going to budge on taxes? He did
it once in 2010, and he won`t do it again.

HENRY: The president was incredibly serious and focused and really
relieved to hear that we are going to keep our ground game going, that our
working people and community members all across this country are ready to
have this fight, and want to have the middle class tax cuts permanently
extended. That`s the action that Congress can take right now. And then
work together to make sure that the wealthiest Americans pay their fair
share so we can get back to work.

SCHULTZ: Well, did he tell the group that he was not going to budge
on taxes?

HENRY: He was crystal clear about that, yes.

SCHULTZ: So you`re confirming "The Huffington Post" report tonight
that he said that he moved in 2010, and he won`t do it again?

HENRY: I don`t know the exact words, Ed, but he was very, very clear
that what he said right after the election is that he believes he has a
mandate from the majority of this nation that wants to make sure that we
can reinvigorate this economic recovery that he started in his first term.
And we are completely proud to have his back and to make sure that every
American knows what`s at stake in this debate.

SCHULTZ: Senator Brown, how do you take that information?

BROWN: I take it the way I think he meant it. And that is -- I
talked to him the day after the election. He was pretty excited about
carrying our state -- thanks to many, including Mary Kay and her union and
so many other people, grassroots union and nonunion all over the state.

He was solid then. He says it again. He means it.

And I think that the organizing around it so very important. The
labor movement, consumer groups, women`s groups, advocates all over the
country that care about more tax fairness. It`s not just -- you know, you
don`t just tax your way into a balanced budget or cut your way.

You also grow your way, and there`s going to be a jobs component on
this with infrastructure and helping local governments and all the things
that we should be doing to make sure we see the kind of economic growth we
need to give people a shot at the middle class. Most of America would
rather be paying taxes than they would drawing an unemployment check.

That`s what -- we operate under that assumption, and we need as part
of this taxing the wealthy to pay a little bit more and some reasonable
balanced cuts, but more of a 1:1 ratio rather than what Republicans want to
do. You got a jobs component, too, as you know.

SCHULTZ: But, Senator, this comes down to negotiations. And from
what is being reported about what the president told these basers in that
meeting today, doesn`t that send a real hard line message to Mitch
McConnell, and that`s what`s lacking in all of this?

BROWN: I think Mitch McConnell is a little worried. I mean, you saw
some of these people on election night. You saw Karl Rove`s response. You
saw McConnell the next day. You saw Speaker Boehner, who`s been actually
the most -- I think the most flexible of the group.

And they know that they`re going to have to come to the table and
they`re going to have to give on a lot of things. I mean, not just that we
won the election, but when I see the organizing around the president`s
message. He`ll travel the country and he`s going to talk to people, and
the country is overwhelmingly with him. Even people that didn`t vote for
him, many, many, many of them think that the rich should pay a little bit
more and that we need to focus on jobs.

And I think when you put that together, it`s pretty clear that the
president is in a good position to win this. It really is another campaign
in so many ways.

HENRY: Ed, I think people think the negotiations happened for the
last year in this country. We had a national debate on this question. The
people have spoken. We want our government to answer the call.

And so, for us, the issue of negotiating is we need the Republican
right wing in the House to extend the middle class tax cuts permanently so
that they can show they`re really serious about restoring the American
middle class in this country.

SCHULTZ: All right. Day one, getting everybody on the same page. It
sounds good to me.

Senator Brown --

BROWN: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: -- and Mary Kay Henry, the Service Employees International
Union. Great to have you with us tonight.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow, and on Facebook.
We`re always looking for your comments.

And coming up: Paul Ryan`s first interview since the election and he
seemed to be diluted about a few key points. Ohio State Senator Nina
Turner joins me next and so much more coming up.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up: Paul Ryan says that he was shocked by the turnout
of voters in urban areas. We`ll go inside the bubble for Ryan`s first
interview since his epic loss.

The Petraeus scandal is the right wing`s latest shiny object. It
turns out it all started with an attempt to smear the president of the
United States.

And over 80,000 Texans want to secede from the Union. That`s right.
They want leave America and start their own gig, right?

Well, Governor Rick Perry says no way. I`ll explain why Democrats
need to get on board. Share your thoughts with us on Facebook and on
Twitter using #EdShow.

We`re coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. And thanks for watching
tonight.

The White House has announced that the president of the United States
will hold his first press conference tomorrow since winning re-election.
Meanwhile, in his first sets of interviews since the election, Paul Ryan
says he really thought the Republican ticket was going to win. Reality
bursts the bubble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: The polling we had, the numbers we were looking at looked like
we stood a pretty good chance of winning. And so, when the numbers came in
going the other direction, when we saw the kind of turnout that was
occurring in urban areas, which are fairly unprecedented, it did come as a
bit of a shock. So, those are the tough losses to have, the ones that
catch you by surprise.

I think the surprise was some of the turnout -- some of the turnout
especially in urban areas which definitely gave President Obama the big
margin to win this race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Voters suppression, they just didn`t get it done, right?
Congressman Ryan is supposed to be the GOP`s heavyweight on numbers. He`s
the chair of the House Budget Committee, so if he was actually relying on
the campaign`s internal polling, we should doubt his judgment more than
ever, don`t you think?

Also, Romney and Ryan didn`t lose in urban areas. Not only there,
they lost among women and young voters, and they lost by a wide margin
among moderate voters.

There`s another revelation from the Ryan interview. Ryan doesn`t
believe that the GOP`s policy has anything to do with the loss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: I think we ran a great campaign. We made a big -- a campaign
about big ideas. We gave the country a very clear choice.

I respect the fact that the process is done, that the president won
the race, and I congratulate him on the race.

I don`t think we lost it on budget issues. I think people --
especially, on Medicare, we clearly didn`t lose it on those issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: On one hand, he says that they offered the country a very
clear choice, but then he claims they didn`t lose the election on budget
issues.

Congressman Ryan is wrong. In exit polls, 60 percent favor tax rates
increasing either for everyone or for those making more than $250,000 a
year.

As for those urban areas? Romney and Ryan lost. There is an obvious
connection to the Republican policy. African-American, Latino, young
voters, they simply do not buy Ryan`s approach, and that is every man for
himself.

Let`s turn to Ohio State Senator Nina Turner.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight. I guess -- I think this is
important because this is an admission that their voter suppression did not
work, and turnout does work. And all of the talk before the election did
connect with people. Information is power. Motivation is what makes it
happen.

Ryan doesn`t see a connection between his policy proposals and his
ticket`s -- and the GOP ticket defeat.

What do you make of that?

NINA TURNER (D), OHIO STATE SENATOR: Well, I have two words for
Congressman Ryan and the other GOP who are out of touch with this -- seek
help, OK?

The fact they don`t understand that urban folks, i.e., factory
workers, auto workers, teachers, police officers, nurses, students, the
elderly, women, African-Americans, whites, Latinos, you name it, who live
in these urban area renewed President Obama`s contract because they believe
that what his policies are for the better interest of those of us who live
in this country. So they need to seek help.

SCHULTZ: So how do you build on this in 2014?

TURNER: Well, we got to continue to remind, because you`re absolutely
right. We went to sleep after 2008, and they swept us in 2010, and we
cannot afford to fall asleep after this big victory. We have got to
continue to forge ahead.

And we certainly need the president and those in Congress not to
forget those states that really pushed him through, especially Ohio. We
have a lot of cleanup to do in 2014, and the president needs a Congress
that he can work with.

We`ve got to remind, folks -- I mean, right here in the state of Ohio,
even though we just went through the election process, they are here trying
to defund Planned Parenthood yet again and to pass what I call the
heartless bill, the heartbeat bill, therefore effectively banning an
abortion in the state of Ohio.

So they have not learned their lesson, and we got to remind women, men
who up respect women, and everybody else in this country just what the GOP
stands for and what they care about. They don`t care about many of us in
this country at all.

SCHULTZ: Here`s part of Ryan`s speech on poverty. This was just a
month before the election. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: Here`s the problem. The welfare reform mindset has not been
applied with equal vigor across the spectrum of our anti-poverty programs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: What do you think of that? How can he change his view on
that between now and 2014 or even in the long term? I mean, are
Republicans offering a credible approach to lifting people out of poverty?

TURNER: Not at all, Ed. I mean, again, if you look at the state of
Ohio, for example, cutting funding to K through 12 education, but yet, you
say that you care about children. Cutting funding to local government
funds, but you care about children.

They don`t care about the poor, and as was illustrated and thank God
the American people didn`t buy it, they will say and do anything to try to
win an election. But it is my sincere hope that the voters not only in the
state of Ohio but across this country, do not forget what they stand for
and what they will do. We got to continue to work to help the president
build the Congress that he needs and we cannot forget the state elected
offices.

We have got to use our political clout to clean governor`s mansions
and statehouses across the country. It takes teamwork to make the American
dream work. That`s from the White House to congress to the statehouse to
governors` mansions across this country. We`re going to fight, Ed. We
learned out lesson from 2010.

SCHULTZ: And quickly, Senator, I just want to make sure I heard you
correctly, that on a state level in Ohio, the righties are trying to defund
Planned Parenthood. I heard that correctly?

TURNER: Yes, you did, Ed. They`re going to start having hearings on
that tomorrow in the Ohio House. In Planned Parenthood, we did a big press
conference today. They`re after women yet again.

SCHULTZ: All right. Ohio State Senator Nina Turner -- as you can
see, the battle goes on. Thanks for joining us tonight.

Coming up: a dramatic turn in the Petraeus affair. It`s the shiny
object the right wing was hoping for. Karen Finney will weigh in on that.
Then, it`s the death of traditional America? Republicans say that they are
-- there are clear signs this country is flat out falling apart. We`ll let
Bill O`Reilly make his party`s case.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: The Petraeus files are getting thick. It widens and it gets
even more bizarre. And conservatives are determined to make the affair
into a full-blown Obama administration scandal.

This story now involves David Petraeus` successor in Afghanistan,
Marine Corps General John Allen. Both Petraeus and Allen have connections
to Jill Kelley, a Tampa socialite who does volunteer work with military
families.

Kelley is the woman who alerted a friend of hers at the FBI after
receiving harassing e-mails. Investigators later discover those e-mails
came from Paula Broadwell, Petraeus` biographer. Broadwell and Petraeus
admitted to having an affair. That affair led to Petraeus` resignation
from the CIA.

FBI investigators also discovered what the Pentagon called potentially
inappropriate communications between Jill Kelley of Tampa and General
Allen. The FBI reviewed 20,000 and 30,000 pages of documents, including e-
mails over the course of two years, but found no wrongdoing by General
Allen.

The FBI turned the files over to the Pentagon, and the Pentagon has
ordered its own investigation.

The married General Allen denies an improper relationship with Kelley.
Allen is currently President Obama`s choice for supreme allied commander of
NATO forces in Europe. That nomination is now on hold.

As NBC News reports, the president first learned of the potential
problems with Allen`s nomination on Friday, the same day he accepted
Petraeus` resignation. That hasn`t stopped the conspiracy theorists over
at FOX News from wild speculation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS: Who knew about the affair before the leak, and
why didn`t they speak up?

RONALD KESSLER, NEWSMAX: The idea that Obama would not be told just
by coincidence two or three days after the election absolutely beyond
belief.

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWSD: You have to suspend disbelief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that the White House is lying again
just as it was lying about Benghazi.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: How could the FBI
pick up something like this in the spring and take months to figure it out?

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: We`re supposed to believe that an affair
involving the head of the CIA was never discuss?

ANDREA TANTAROS, FOX NEWS: Did the sex scandal influence Benghazi?

MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS: What did the president know and when did he
knew it?

TANTAROS: Why President Obama didn`t know about it? So if he did
know about it, there were months that went by. I mean, Eric Holder at
least knew about it.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS: If Holder knew it, he knew it. When Obama
smelt it, Holder dealt it.

LAURA INGRAHAM, RADIO HOST: Eric Holder, we`re supposed to believe,
didn`t talk to one of his closest friends? One of his closest friends is
Barack Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: I`m joined by MSNBC political analyst Karen Finney, former
communications director for the DNC.

A lot it to unpack here. It`s just -- the thing is that everybody on
that network just happens to believe that there is just some huge, shiny
object that the right wing should be focused on totally.

This is what they need. This is what they want. Karen, your thoughts
on the narrative that`s out there, that this is some big conspiracy and
cover-up?

KAREN FINNEY, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: You know,
poppycock. How about that as a phrase? Remember, this is a network that
was convinced -- convinced that Mitt Romney was going to win last Tuesday.
So let`s take anything they say with like a mound of salt.

I think it`s pretty clear -- and I wrote in my column for "the Hill"
about this, this week, that from the beginning, they were more interested
in figuring out how can we use this to again attack Attorney General Eric
Holder, because they have had it in for him from day one, and the Obama
administration broadly?

What`s -- similar to the way they have been dealing with the Benghazi
situation, there really are significant, important questions that need to
be asked. But we shouldn`t -- we need to separate that out from what is
also just a very sad but all too common story about a man getting brought
down by, you know, being distracted by a woman.

SCHULTZ: The White House is supporting General Allen, although his
nomination as Supreme Allied Commander has been put on hold. What do you
make of that?

FINNEY: I think that`s probably appropriate, because there is an
investigation going on at DOD. Let me just speak sort of more broadly.
When you -- I actually talked to some folks at the Department of Justice.
The thing we have to remember is what we know now is not what they knew
when they started the investigation.

When they started the investigation, they didn`t know what they had.
And as facts unfolded, they decided to take sort of the next step. From
everything we know at this point, people went up their chain of command,
which ended with going to Clapper, who then went to the White House and
then it went to the president.

The last interview actually with Paula Broadwell was the Friday before
the election. So in terms of the timing and all of this kind of stuff, you
know, again, I think that people who want to seek conspiracy theories will
find them.

SCHULTZ: But the fact the White House is supporting Allen, they must
know that he is in the clear, and they are in safe territory, because this
could be a very dangerous position if there was some kind of wrongdoing
that would be uncovered later on.

FINNEY: You know, Ed, I can just tell you from my own experience
working in the Clinton administration, I actually take a slightly different
view. That is that they -- he can`t -- it would not be prudent to withdraw
the nomination until you know wheat the facts are.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

FINNEY: We don`t know what the facts are.

SCHULTZ: They haven`t withdrawn it. They have just put it on hold.

FINNEY: Correct. It`s on hold while this investigation plays itself
out. And that seems like the appropriate thing to do, because that says,
look, we take it seriously. We`re going to investigate. And then we`re
going to -- but you know, I think it`s also important the president has
made it clear that he still stands by Allen.

SCHULTZ: Now I said in my opening to this story that there`s
something bizarre here. Here we go. The FBI agent that Jill Kelley first
contacted reportedly sent shirtless photos of himself to Jill Kelley.

FINNEY: Yes.

SCHULTZ: He`s now a subject of an ethic inquiry over that. The agent
also contacted Eric Cantor about the investigation, because he believed the
case had stalled to protect the president of the United States.

FINNEY: Right.

SCHULTZ: Partisanship taking place inside the FBI? Is that a red
flag?

FINNEY: It is a red flag. I mean, it certainly sounds like it. It
certainly is disturbing and not, obviously, within -- there`s a lot there
that`s wrong in terms of the protocols there. You know, I guess there`s a
question to be asked in terms of what Eric Cantor -- and I believe there`s
another Republican, Weikert, who was also notified -- what they -- they
apparently passed that information on to the FBI here.

But yes, there`s definitely some real questions about what was the
motivation of that FBI agent in reporting that.

SCHULTZ: So what it comes down to is, with the House and Senate Intel
Committee going to vet all of this with hearings, we`re going to find out
that the right wing is early terribly wrong or they were onto something?
That`s the way it`s going to come down.

FINNEY: And that maybe the investigation and everything that happened
the way -- just as a reminder, the protocols that are in place at the
Department of Justice --

SCHULTZ: They have to follow steps. Yes.

FINNEY: Mukasey actually reminded everybody of that under George
Bush.

SCHULTZ: Yes, he did. Karen Finney, great to have you with us.
Thank you.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.
Stay right with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Is traditional America gone for good?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The mayor of cable news can`t believe white men are losing
their grip on power. Michael Eric Dyson and Joan Walsh will break down his
latest tirade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: Mr. Obama won the woman vote, blacks and Asians. But it
was the Hispanic vote that really nailed Romney. It was an entitlement
vote this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s wit the get up, Kringle?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m Santa Claus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see for myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh go ahead. Pull it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Consumers are turning up the heat on the Donald. I`ll have
the details ahead. And southern American states want to split off and form
their own country following the re-election of President Obama. Coming up,
I`ll tell you why the Democrats shouldn`t mess with Texas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you think it got this tight?

O`REILLY: Because it`s a changing country. The demographics are
changing. It`s not a traditional America anymore. And there are 50
percent of the voting public who want stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Republicans like Bill O`Reilly
are whining about the death of what they call traditional America.
O`Reilly claims that these are signs that America, you know what, is just
falling apart.

"Fewer people go to church regularly. More babies are born to
unmarried minorities. Women get abortions on demand. And two states
legalized recreational use for marijuana."

O`Reilly says Americans voted for a man who won`t be good for the
country. He thinks voters just didn`t understand the issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: Secularism is certainly eroding traditional power. No
question about it. The SPs, they don`t care about addiction. They don`t
want limitations on so-called private behavior, no judgments.

Want to smoke drugs? Fine. Want to abort a fetus? We`ll drive you
to the clinic. Want to have a kid when you`re 16? No problem at all.
We`ll support you.

I believe the majority of American can be persuaded that the far left
is a dangerous outfit, bent on destroying traditional America and replacing
it with a social free fire zone that drives dependency and poverty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: All right, folks. Give you a chance to consume that. If
this sounds familiar, dog gone it, it is. Republicans like O`Reilly have
been trying to sell the same traditional America message for decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t look now, young man, but somebody has his
hand in the pocket. It`s the hand of big government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ask you to join me in helping to restore the
individual freedoms and initiatives this nation once knew.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan, Bush, McCain and Romney complained
about big government, complained an awful lot about big government. But
they supported laws against abortion, marriage and pot.

It looks like Republicans still haven`t learned what real American
values are after all.

Let`s bring in Joan Walsh tonight, editor at large for Salon.com and
author of the book "What`s the Matter with White People," and Michael Eric
Dyson, professor, with us tonight, MSNBC political analyst and professor of
sociology at Georgetown University.

Professor, you first. What are traditional American values? Pretty
generic question, but certainly pinpointing the answer was the mayor of
cable.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: No doubt about it. Look,
I heard once a division that tradition is the living faith of dead men and
women; and the traditional is the dead faith of living men and women. And
since O`Reilly said traditional, it`s the dead faith of living men and
women.

Look, this harkening back to an earlier epoch, this golden era is
really predicated on the desire to control the present by projecting a past
that never was what they claimed it was.

When "Father Knew Best" and American white men were at the helm of
American society in television and beyond, women were being abused. The
silencing of minorities was present. And the repression of all other
values, except Victorian ones, went apace with the kind of extraordinary
inability of America to recognize freedom for everybody.

So for me, tradition is democracy, freedom, justice, equality, and the
ability to project the best of the American spirit to the world. I believe
in American traditions, just not the ones that Bill O`Reilly wants to
celebrate.

SCHULTZ: Joan, in your book, you say Ronald Reagan lied about poverty
so he could succeed politically. You wrote "middle class folks didn`t have
to worry that they were indulging resentment, perhaps even racism by
opposing poverty programs. They were doing it because those programs hurt
poor people. Reagan said so."

Do the Republicans still believe this message?

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: I don`t know if they really believe it. I
don`t know if they care -- they don`t care about the poor. But they`ve
been selling it for a long time, Ed.

I`m with Michael. He is looking backwards to an America that never
was as wonderful as he thinks. And he`s becoming kind of like a Glenn Beck
figure. He`s really not leaving it alone. When he went here on election
night, I thought maybe he`ll get over it.

But the majority of Americans voted for Barack Obama. We have values.
The majority of Catholics voted for President Obama. A majority -- vast
majority of Jews voted for President Obama.

He has a problem with white Protestant southern Evangelical people,
but he doesn`t have -- it`s not that his whole coalition is secular. We
have values, too.

SCHULTZ: Professor, how can we not come to the conclusion that Bill
O`Reilly thinks that diversity is the root of all evil in America after
listening to that?

DYSON: Well, it`s hard not to conclude that. Because what is
happening here is a kind of retrenchment, a kind of politics of panic and
fear, that, look, it`s not what we believed it to be. It`s now how we
believed it to be. It`s not the kind of society we believed in, because we
don`t see ourselves reflected in the broader society.

So it`s a matter of trust. We don`t trust these people. We don`t
know who Barack Obama is. They have spent the last four years trying to
define Obama outside of the arc of American identity. They`ve tried to
define African-American people, Latinos, women, gay, lesbian, transgendered
and bisexual people outside of the arc of America.

But guess what? After 2050, the majority of America will not be
white. The majority of America will be diverse. And not only racially,
but a diversity in plurality of ideologies and opinions and beliefs and
ideas about what makes America great.

You do not, Bill O`Reilly, have a copyright on what it means to be an
American. What it means to be an American is to be skeptical of those who
claim that their variety of patriotism is the only route to redemption for
America.

I say open the doors, bring us your teaming masses, and allow the
great ideals of the world to nourish what American identity is.

SCHULTZ: Joan, how insulting is it to voters that decided to vote for
President Obama on election day?

WALSH: It`s deeply insulting. He`s saying that we want stuff, that
we`re dependent, that we`re lazy. But the fact is, you know, back in the
`60s and `70s, conservatives used to say to liberals, America, love it or
leave it. I always thought that that was kind of a close minded, anti-
patriotic thing. But I want to say to them, America love it or be left
behind.

You don`t love America if you can`t embrace this change. You`re going
to be a very sad, grumpy old man. And you`re going to turn out like Bill
O`Reilly,. And that`s not pretty.

SCHULTZ: Joan Walsh, Michael Eric Dyson, great to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

DYSON: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Now that the election is over, Donald Trump has found yet a
new target. I`ll show you who it is next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Birtherism, sexism, climate
change denial, Twitter rants, you name it, all of those things I`m sure
really gets you in the Christmas spirit.

If so, Macy`s has the perfect product for you. The famed department
store is feeling the heat after including professional troll Donald Trump
in the store`s new holiday ad campaign. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": What`s with the get us, Kringle?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m Santa Claus.

TRUMP: Let me see for myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead and pull it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Get it? To Macy`s, it`s awful funny that Trump is a
Birther. He doesn`t just harass the president of the United States about
his identity. He questions if Santa himself is telling the truth.

Over half a million customers are not laughing. They don`t like it.
That`s how many people have signed a SignOn.org petition urging the store
to stop carrying Trump brand products and featuring the amateur conspiracy
theorist and profession narcissist in their ads.

Their statement reads, "Macy`s says it has a strong obligation to be
`socially responsible` and that `actions speak louder than words.` Indeed,
it`s time to act."

The Trump brand has lost all credibility and value. He`s a national
joke. And Trump is one of -- is one who really doesn`t seem to get it at
this point, does he? Just watch the guy who talks tough on China pitching
his clothing line on Letterman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, "THE LATE SHOW": Where are the shirts made?
Bangladesh.

TRUMP: It`s good. We employ people in Bangladesh.

LETTERMAN: Ties? Where are the ties made? These are beautiful ties.

TRUMP: They are great ties.

LETTERMAN: They`re made in where? China? Ties are made in China.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That`s who Macy`s wants to represent their brand, but the
power is in the hands of the consumer. And the number of petition
signatures keeps on growing. What more could you want for Christmas than
Trump-free TV?

Tonight in our survey, I asked you, who do you support in the fight
over the fiscal cliff? Ninety seven percent of you say President Obama and
the Democrats; three percent of you say the Republicans.

Coming up, Republicans are so upset by President Obama`s win, they`re
signing petitions to secede from union. That`s right. Author Jim Moore
will tell us if they`re serious down there in Texas. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, thanks to President Obama`s
re-election, some Republicans think the apocalypse is right around the
corner. So they are reorganizing. It`s gotten so bad, residents in 40
states have started petitions to peacefully secede from the union. That`s
right.

The petitions have been filed with the Obama administration`s We the
People Program. If a petition receives 25,000 signatures within 30 days,
it will be reviewed by the White House and a response will be issued.

So far Texas, Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana have all met the 25,000
mark. Of course, the big winner is Texas. Over 84,000 people in Texas
have signed up to break way from the United States. As of tonight, the
White House has not issued a response to any of these petitions.

Meanwhile, Texas Governor Rick Perry has flirted with an idea of an
independent Texas in the past. But this time he`s changed his tune. His
office released a statement today saying, quote, "Governor Perry believes
in the greatness of our union. And nothing should be done to change it.
But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal
government."

Really? Believe it or not, it`s good news for Democrats that Texas is
sticking around, because it`s slowly turning blue. Texas has a large
growing population of Latinos, African Americans and Asian-Americans who
typically vote Democratic.

A study from the "Houston Chronicle" shows the number of Texas
Democrats matching up with Republicans around the year 2024. But former
Florida Governor Jeb Bush has a faster timetable. He said last month,
quote, "four years from now, Texas is going to be a so-called blue state."

For more, let`s bring in Jim Moore, director of the Progress Texas PAC
and the author of the book "Bush`s brain."

Jim, good to have you back with us.

JIM MOORE, PROGRESS TEXAS PAC: Hey, Ed.

SCHULTZ: How serious are these folks? Are they just signing a
petition out of frustration? Or do they really want to break away from the
union and have America the way they wanted it? Are they just frustrated
they lost the election, so damn it, we want our own country and this is
what we`re going to do? How serious are they?

MOORE: I think they`re serious. But you have to understand that
every culture has its kind of whack jobs out on the periphery. And Texas
is no different.

I will concede the point, however, that Texas has more than our
blessed boat load of net jobs who want to leave the nation. These are
people who also claim to be patriots, like Rick Perry. And out of one side
of their mouth they say they`re patriots; out of the other side of their
mouth, they say they want to leave the United States of America.

In the midst of all this, of course, Rick Perry, who has now changed
his position on this because he has this thin dream of running for
president again -- he is a guy who today sent out a dog whistle to all of
the these people and said, I`m going to drug test everybody who wants to
get social services from the State of Texas, which is another way of
saying, if you want to live in a refrigerator box and drink unsweetened
Kool-Aid, you have to pass a drug test in the state of Texas. It`s a real
deal.

SCHULTZ: What`s the mood among Texas Republicans right now? Are they
doing the whisper thing, saying, maybe this isn`t a bad idea? Or are they
against it?

MOORE: Well, nobody has publicly said anything about it, Ed, from the
party officially. But I think that they have to do this deal where they
walk a line and stay away from this thing. But they believe in it. And
they want to support these people. And they want to suggest, I think
you`re right; I think the president is crazy.

But look, let`s acknowledge what`s really at work here. The subtext
of this is race. People don`t like the fact that there`s an African-
American in the White House.

SCHULTZ: No doubt about it. OK, what happens to Texas if it becomes
a blue state? What does that do to the map? What does that do to the
Republican party if Texas becomes the state of the other team?

MOORE: I think two things happen. First, in this Congressional
session, if there isn`t some compromise by the Republican party and the
people in Texas, the Latino voters who have begun turning out in big
numbers finally after this election, this will mean that the Republican
party is destroyed for at least a generation.

I think in 2016, with Texas in the Democratic column, it`s going to be
very difficult for any Republican to even dream for generations of winning
the White House.

SCHULTZ: Quickly --

MOORE: That`s really possible.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the state legislature in Texas is going to wake
up that?

MOORE: It`s really hard to judge. We have a wacky legislature still
controlled by very conservative people, Ed. But we`re going to see. The
legislature coming in January. I think we are going to see some things
change.

And Democrats are going to start flexing they are muscle even though
they`re in the minority.

SCHULTZ: Some cowboys just can`t buy new boots. They like the old
ones. Jim Moore, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts
right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. Thank you, my friend.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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