All In With Chris Hayes, Monday, April 51, 2013
Read the transcript from the Monday show
ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
April 15, 2013
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
Guests: Donald Borelli, Greg Kalkwarf, Charles Pierce, Kurt Nickisch, Gov. Deval Patrick, Chris Deslauriers, Ed Davis, Carmen Ortiz, Dan Conley
CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Thank you, Chris.
We`re expecting a press conference from Boston police about 30 minutes
from now. We will, of course, bring that to you live.
Let`s start right now with what we know. Here`s the very latest
information we have this hour on the horrific events that unfolded today in
Boston. This was the scene at the finish line for the Boston marathon just
before 3:00 this afternoon.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HAYES: As you saw happen right at finish line, there was a second
explosion, about a block further back. The explosions took place four
hours and nine minutes into the race. Last year, the average time for
marathon finishers was four hours 18 minutes. The explosion came what was
likely a high traffic time at the finish line.
Authorities say they did not have any specific intelligence on an
attack ahead of time. They have closed down the area around blast site for
at least 24 hours and Boston police are asking people to stay in their
homes and hotel rooms and not to gather in large crowds.
Right now, they`re not sure where they were placed and treating
anything unattended from backpacks to trash cans as suspicion. At this
point, the Boston police are confirming two fatalities and more than 20
injuries. The number of injuries coming from local hospital reporting
however are much higher with a total of 100 patients reportedly being
treated at five area hospitals.
A law enforcement official has told NBC News that one of the two known
fatalities was an 8-year-old child.
Police say there is no suspect in custody, many people are being
questioned. The U.S. attorney`s office is working together with the FBI,
the ATF and other state, local and federal law enforcement officials on the
investigation. And NBC News is reporting that 460 national guardsmen are
on site as well.
A White House official tells NBC News that, quote, "any event with
multiple explosive devices as this appears to be is clearly an act of
terror and will be approached as an act of terror." We`ll talk more about
what that means.
And earlier this evening, the president himself addressed the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We`re continuing to
monitor and respond to the situation as it unfolds. And I`ve directed the
full resources of the federal government to help state and local
authorities protect our people, increase security around the United States
as necessary and investigate what happened. We still do not know who did
this or why. And people shouldn`t jump to conclusions before we have all
But, make no mistake: we will get to the bottom of this. And we will
find out who did this, we`ll find out why they did this. Any responsible
individuals, any responsible groups will feel the full weight of justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The president saying we still do not know who did this or why
and people shouldn`t jump to conclusions before we have all the facts.
That remains true at this moment as I speak to you.
Security has been stepped up around the White House this evening, as
well as in major cities around the country -- from Miami to New York City
to Los Angeles.
Joining us tonight from Boston, NBC`s Katy Tur.
Katy, can you tell me the latest in Boston in terms of where people
are, what has been closed off and what the state of the city is now hours
after the attack?
KATY TUR, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: It`s very eerie here in Boston,
Chris. Right now, we`re in the back. There were two blocks from the
finish line, two blocks from where those explosions happened and there`s
pretty much nobody on the street. But the police commissioner of the city
asked that everybody stay inside, go back to their hotel rooms for their
There is a 15-block radius where you cannot get in with car traffic.
So if you are coming in to this area, you have to walk. It`s pretty eerie
around here. You`re not seeing very many people allowed here. You`re
seeing a lot of law enforcement. You`re seeing the National Guard, we have
heard from the Navy is assisting.
The back bay, if you`ve been to Boston, is usually a very popular
area, busy area, especially after the marathon, these bars are going crazy
usually after the marathon with people celebrating. Right now, everything
is shut down.
And everyone around here is looking for answers. They`re coming up to
reporters. They`re going up to police officers; they`re trying to figure
out why anybody would do this
Of course, there are so few answers, but again, the White House and
the Homeland Security chairman say it does appear to be terrorism. It
happened around the four-hour mark of the race, right around the finish
line. That`s when most of the racers usually finish. So, it does look
like it was intended to cause the most damage.
Right afterwards there was a scene of chaos. The first explosion, it
seemed that people didn`t know what happened, maybe it could have been an
accident. But 15 seconds later, when the second explosion went off, people
knew something was wrong. And that`s when you got a lot of people
We`re just a few steps away from where a woman stumbled away from the
finish line with severe injuries. She had shrapnel injuries. There were
shrapnel involved in these explosions. She was quickly whisked away to a
local hospital. We don`t know her condition as of now.
But with all those injuries, there`s a lot of lower limb injuries.
That`s why there are so many people in critical condition at this hour.
Two people dead, about 100 injured, as you said, and we have learned from a
law enforcement source that one of the people who died was an 8-year-old
So, people in this area, Chris, as you would imagine, the last thing
they would expect today, is a holiday, a celebratory day, they were not
thinking that anything like this could have possibly happened. So you do
have a feeling of shock and a feeling of what could possibly happen next in
HAYES: Katy, I feel like that was heightened partly because of
reports subsequent of two explosions of other explosive devices. "The
A.P." reporting, ABC News reported, other items were found left behind. We
have not confirmed whether they were, in fact, explosive or not, although
we do know out of precautionary measures, the Boston police rendered them
safe, is the terminology they`ve used.
Do we know from the Boston police whether they have secured an area
and are no longer concerned about the presence of secondary explosive
TUR: We do not know that as of now. There will be a press conference
in 30 minutes. We`re expected to find out more about that. We do know
that they were anything left on the ground, any package, as suspicious. As
you can imagine, it`s a marathon, people are dropping things left and
right. Then, when the explosions happen, you know, they`re running away
and dropping whatever is on them. So, they were treating everything as
We do believe there was a potentially a third device, and that was
safely detonated. There was also a fire at the JFK Library. But right
now, it`s not clear what caused that fire. They are saying there were no -
- there were no explosions happening at that library, Chris.
HAYES: NBC`s Katy Tur, thank you so much.
NBC News chief White House correspondent Chuck Todd joins us from
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Chris.
HAYES: Chuck, the president addressed the nation around 6:10. It was
a fairly brief and very careful in terms of what the president said and
what we know. What are you hearing from the White House now about what is
unfolding since that address and why they took the approach they did?
TODD: Well, look, the issue, of course, when you say the approach,
we`re talking about carefully chosen words -- one of them had to do with
why he didn`t use the word terrorism. It was something that the White
House themselves addressed very quickly. You read the statement, that
statement they put right after the president.
Aides debated whether the president should say it or not, and they
made the decision not to. One of the things you could hear it in his
voice, you talk to other officials, there isn`t a lot of information that
they have right now. There`s a bit of frustration, I think with law
enforcement officials from Boston to Washington about how little they seem
to know at this point in time.
Now, I`ve talked to a couple of former White House security officials,
one who said it`s either one of two incidents, it is a lone wolf or it`s a
group they don`t know anything about and didn`t see -- see this group
coming, if you will, because it`s a group they hadn`t been tracking, or
they`re just still trying to piece everything together. They may have
something, but they want to be very, very careful, maybe overly careful
because of what thing they might know.
HAYES: And that was evident in the president`s remarks, Chuck. And
it seems to me also that when we use the word terrorism, we`re talking
about an action, but we`re also taking about a motivation. If there is no
information now about who did this and who`s responsible, as far as we
know, no information, it seems to me prudent not to venture that word since
that word does imply some specific ideological motivation in the act
TODD: Chris, I feel like I`m watching Washington rush to say the
TODD: And you`re right, there is a technical definition, political
motivation involved. And I think -- the president himself said we don`t
know the motive. They know it was somebody who committed an act of terror.
TODD: And tried to harm and kill people, but don`t know who it is and
don`t know the motivation. Until they too do, that`s why they`re being
They know the president`s words get parsed like nobody`s business, so
it wasn`t as if this caught them by surprise.
HAYES: And we, of course, just read recently a lesson for everyone,
in the media as well in the wake of the Benghazi attacks on September 11th
about how much initial reports may prove later to not be fully accurate.
There`s a lot of confusion in the aftermath of a chaotic event like this.
TODD: And, Chris, let`s not forget the Atlanta Olympics. That was a
domestic terrorist who didn`t take credit for it. There`s the expectation,
I think much of our security system is so focused on international
terrorism sometimes, that I think that that`s why, you know, that word gets
thrown around. But, you know, there is -- there is assumption, and I`ve
heard others say, there`s assumption somebody will take credit, that`s the
way it works internationally. We don`t know.
HAYES: Chuck, we`ve also heard reports of expanded security around
the White House, what can you tell us about that?
TODD: Well, we`ve seen it. They`ve pushed. They`ve essentially
gotten rid of -- pushed the perimeter to Lafayette Park, and, obviously,
Pennsylvania Avenue closed to vehicle traffic but now they`re closing it to
essentially tourist traffic.
If you have an ID badge -- we`re not in full lockdown here at the
White House. If you have business at White House, you can get in and out.
But this is high tourist season and so, they`re just taking precaution and
pushing everybody back to Lafayette Park, the opposite side of the street
of the White House.
HAYES: NBC News` Chuck Todd, thank you so much. Really appreciate
TODD: You got it, sir.
HAYES: I want to bring in correspondent Ron Allen who`s joining us
from Mass General Hospital in Boston. Ron, obviously, the Boston area,
home to an incredible number of some of the finest medical institutions in
the entire country.
What are you seeing at Mass General and what are you hearing there
about those who are been brought there after the explosions today?
RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely right, Chris. And all
the doctors and medical staff in the town seem to be pulling together.
People have come in from home to help out because everybody, of course, is
aware of what happened.
First here at this -- outside the hospital, we were just told by the
police some time ago to be careful about where we were because there was an
operation of some sort going on not far from here where there was obviously
some concern there might have been another explosive device. That passed,
that threat, if there ever was one, has passed, has subsided, has gone.
So, we are now fine to stay here and broadcast. The hospital is just
around the corner.
I was able to have a conversation with an emergency room physician
from Beth Israel, another hospital that`s just across town. They also
received somewhere in the order of 20 to 30 patients. The doctor said what
he described as an eerie calm because the crisis, the intense triage
sessions have essentially ended.
The situation is somewhat stabilized at the hospital, he said, but
there are still at least seven patients who are in the operating rooms, in
surgery right now, with life-threatening and what they describe as limb-
threatening wounds. A lot of that -- a lot of people facing partial
amputations or perhaps total amputations of arms and legs.
As you might expect in a situation where a bomb goes off, a lot of
shrapnel is moving around, and flying around at an incredibly violent pace.
That`s the kind of injury they`re seeing that`s causing the most life-
He said there are also -- I asked him about what kind of shrapnel he
was seeing. And this doctor said that he saw, what looked like to him --
again, he`s not an expert but something of an expert, what looked like BB
gun pellets. In other words, it wasn`t the kind of shrapnel in at least
one or two cases that was glass and other kinds of debris that --
HAYES: Accidental chards off a trash can.
ALLEN: Exactly. He described something that he said was a bb pellet,
which is something you would think, perhaps, of course the investigation
will determine this as we go on, something that might have been packed into
an explosive. And, of course, that`s one thing the police and
investigators are trying to determine, whether these bombs, how they were
made, what they were made of, but that doctor mentioned that, which I
thought was interesting.
But again, at this point still, a lot of tension here in the city. I
just flew in and drove through the city. I know Boston pretty well. I
used to live here for a time.
It`s a very eerie place where people are walking around, trying to get
a sense of what`s -- of where things are going and what`s happening.
Everybody is desperate for information, trying to hang on the latest word
about what`s going on, what`s new?
There are a lot of police roadblocks all over Boston. It`s very hard
to get around. The traffic is very, very thick. And, again, just as we
were pulling up here to begin broadcasting, there was this warning from
some of some of the police who were here. But this investigation of this
parking garage, this area, has passed.
But again, it`s an example of the fact I think this whole crisis, this
whole situation is still evolving, still continuing. It`s not over.
And, of course, for people who are -- the patients in the hospitals
here, I count seven at Beth Israel, a handful here. I don`t want to be --
I`m not sure of the exact numbers because it`s a very fluid situation but
there are still the possibility of people fighting for their lives, trying
to deal with potentially life-threatening, as I said before, what they`re
describing as these limb-threatening wounds -- Chris.
HAYES: Our latest reporting, Ron, is that we have 113 based on
hospital reporting total injured. I would like to play sound for you.
Earlier today, Dr. Alasdair Conn (ph) from Mass General addressed the
media. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE: Some patients have already received traumatic
amputations at the scene, their legs have been blown off and bleeding
profusely. So, in conjunction with Boston Mass who are right on the scene,
they`ve managed to stop the bleeding, but they`re in the operating room
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Ron, my question four in Boston is this, we`ve seen in other
mass casualty events, in other emergencies and crisis, whether caused by
natural disaster or other, medical infrastructure overwhelmed by the sheer
number of people they have to process. It seems to me from the reporting
we`ve seen today that the medical infrastructure, first responders, EMTs
into the trauma centers in Boston have been able to accommodate the
incredible scale of this -- of the violence that happened there today.
ALLEN: Yes. I don`t get the impression from talking to medical
personnel or the reports we`re hearing that the system is overwhelmed. I
don`t get that sense at all. You recall that, again, right at the end of
the marathon, just past the finish line, there are -- there`s a triage
center set up, medical tent set up to handle injured runners who are
pushing themselves across the finish lines. Those areas were overwhelmed
by people running in after the bomb blast.
Again, it`s fortunate, if we can use this word, that this happened
four hours plus into the race. That it didn`t happen as leaders were
crossing the finish line because there would have been many, many thousands
more people, runners and spectators in the area. So, that is one thing
that has kept the number of casualties down.
But I don`t get any sense that the medical facilities here are
overwhelmed. They are amongst the best in the country, in the world. They
know what they`re doing. As I`ve said earlier, I`ve heard that a lot of
volunteers have come rushing in from home, who weren`t on duty to try to be
here to help out.
As I`m sitting here -- standing here talking to you, I can still hear
ambulances, the sound of ambulances around the city, in the distance
heading this way. There`s an ambulance going by just up the street there.
So, again, there`s still a very fluid situation. I`ve heard the
number of 130 injured. The question now is: how many have been treated and
released? We don`t have a clear number on that.
But we do know there are, perhaps, a dozen or more people, something
in that range, based on the reporting, the numbers we`re hearing, of people
who are still in potentially life-threatening situations. They`re not
calling it critical. They`re not giving out that information. But there
are still a lot of people in some severe danger here -- Chris.
HAYES: NBC`s Ron Allen, thank you so much.
One of the things that`s strike being what we know so far is the ratio
of fatalities to injuries. It`s horrific two people have lost their lives
but a true testament to the EMTs and first responders and medical
facilities in the Boston area that it appears so far that so many have been
able to avoid death.
Right now, joining me is Donald Borelli, former FBI special agent who
investigated the Oklahoma City bombing, the U.S. embassy attacks in 1998
and bombing of USS Cole in 2000. Here`s currently COO of the Soufan Group,
a security consultancy.
And, Don, it`s great to have you. Thanks.
DON BORELLI, FORMER FBI AGENT: Thanks for being here.
MADDOW: The one thing everybody wants to know is who did this. It`s
the thing that everyone wants to know. But it`s the thing we cannot answer
because it`s unanswered.
So, instead, as someone who has transported into the aftermath of a
mass casualty event, in the role of investigator, explain to us what is
happening now. Who is showing up in Boston, under whose direction, who is
coordinating and what are the processes undertaken right now to find out
who did this?
BORELLI: Well, it`s going to be a long night and a long week for the
agents and the -- and all of the members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force
What typically happens, and I`m positive of what`s happening now, is
first thing is they have a joint command post set up. There will be a JOC
in government terms, a joint operation center.
The good thing is that this JOC this was more than likely already set
up to handle an event like this because they`re dealing with the Boston
marathon, which is a special event.
HAYES: So, standard procedure --
BORELLI: Standard procedure. These resources are in place, which is
obviously saved them a lot of time. It`s tough when you have a cold start.
A bomb goes off, you have to set up a JOC without any kind of pre-warning.
So, they`ve already got that infrastructure in place.
And in that JOC will be representatives from all of the agencies that
are basically involved in the investigation -- state, local, federal.
There will be people coming in from Washington. This will be the nerve
center of the investigation.
So, right now, it`s kind of -- in 24/7 mode.
HAYES: What agencies are represented there? When you talk about
Joint Terrorism Task Force, who is part of that?
BORELLI: Well, I can`t tell you everybody in Boston. Certainly the
FBI, the state police, ATF, all the federal agencies, the local police. I
was in charge of the international terrorism division in New York as my
last job. In New York, for example, over 50 participating agencies in the
joint terrorism task force, so certainly there are a lot of resources that
will be brought to bear on this situation.
HAYES: OK. And what do those resources do? What are the
investigators -- what`s the checklist? Where do you start going to figure
BORELLI: Well, first thing is that we`ve got some good forensic
evidence that`s been collected. Number one, the teams are going to go out
and they`re going to try to put these devices together that exploded.
They`re going to collect any little bits and pieces, wire, anything that
can help put the devices together. And try to figure out, you know, what
did it look like before it blew up.
But we`ve got a break in the situation in that there were other
devices. As I understand it, other devices retrieved that law enforcement
rendered safe. So, we have some unexploded devices that can possibly
really provide significant leads.
For example, do all the device, are they all similar? Does it look
like they were made by the same person? A lot of times people that make
bombs make them the same exact way. They have a pattern. They have a
signature to them.
Sometimes, there`s fingerprints, there can be DNA. You can look at
the components of the device and figure out where they came from. They`ll
start backtracking, you know, records.
Many times that the explosive material itself carries a signature so
they can tell the manufacturer, who made it, if it was, you know, high
order, low order, was it gunpowder, was it -- you know, what was the
signature of this?
HAYES: Let me ask you this is, I mean, based on the -- are there
conclusions to be drawn about the sophistication or capacity necessary to
produce the kinds of bomb we`ve seen, based on how fatal they appear to
have been? Is there anything that we can conclude based on who would have
the ability to make a bomb that would have this kind of effect?
BORELLI: Well, if -- for example, if it`s kind of a pipe bomb that`s
made with black powder and a timing device, and as we saw in the early
reporting had some kind of shrapnel, BBs or whatever, that is a device
that`s not overly complicated to make. Now, you compare that to --
HAYES: And that would expand the circle of plausible suspects, right?
Because it would mean that, you know, that is -- that is a capacity that
many people have as opposed to something very --
BORELLI: Less technical, obviously. You know, the easier it is for
the average person to get their hands on this.
Now, as opposed to some of the devices that we`ve seen coming out of
Afghanistan and Pakistan that are made by more sophisticated bombers and
techniques, for example, where they used TATPs, the explosive. This was
the device that was attempted to be used in the New York subway.
This takes a higher degree of training. It`s also a lot more lethal.
My opinion: and this is just opinion. I am not a bomb tech. But if
we had seen devices that were more sophisticated, I think we would see a
lot more casualties, and it would have been a lot worse.
HAYES: And we would have a more narrow sense, possibly, of possible --
BORELLI: Possibly. But that`s only based on what I`ve seen on the
video and just my amateur assessment.
HAYES: Let me ask you this question and then we have an eyewitness in
the medic tent today when the explosion went off.
But before we do that, what -- what is the rule of law that currently
operates -- this is particularly important after Abdulmutallab, who was the
underwear bomber in Christmas, who`s custody he was taken into, when we`re
talking about these joint operation center, we`re talking about
investigations happening with U.S. officials across a number of agencies,
what rule of law controls right now?
BORELLI: The FBI is in charge of terrorism. So, it is an -- it is an
HAYES: Which means the United States constitution and due process it
affords and all of the dotting I`s and crossing T`s that that -- that goes
along with that?
BORELLI: That goes along with that. However, that is not to say that
intelligence collection isn`t a big part of this. And the trick is to find
that delicate balance.
So, for example, if there is information to be collected by
intelligence means, whether it`s a sensitive source, domestic, overseas,
we`re going to pursue every angle of that. If it means that somebody`s in
custody and the decision is made that we want to interview this person
without reading Miranda rights because --
HAYES: You`re saying in foreign custody?
BORELLI: Even in U.S. custody there are situations now where a lot of
people would say, you don`t need to read Miranda rights right away. This
decision -- if a very strong suspect is picked up or somebody could provide
significant information, I think that decision, whether or not to Mirandize
could be discussed between DOJ, FBI, the White House.
HAYES: Presumably, though, as the FBI is going through this, they are
looking to make sure there are no secondary attacks, first priority, right,
HAYES: And second of all, to make sure they maintain the possibility
of ultimately getting a criminal conviction.
HAYES: All right. Joining us is an eyewitness to the bombing, Greg
Kalkwarf. He ran the marathon and was in the medical tent when the
He joins us by phone from Boston.
Greg, describe what you were doing in the medical tent, at what time
and what the scene there was like.
GREG KALKWARF, EYEWITNESS (via telephone): Yes. The first thing,
this was wave three, so I was running -- I was a charity runner
(INAUDIBLE), so we started at approximately 10:40 a.m. And then I finished
just under four, my first under four, thus I pushed pretty hard mile 25 and
26. That means is I was pretty winded, dizzy and felt like I was ready to
And, thus, as I crossed the finish line I asked for medical
assistance. They stuck me in a wheelchair, wheeled me over there.
I heard your reporter, typical post-marathon (INAUDIBLE) to give me a
little TLC. Forgive me, I`m actually near by Mass General myself and
another ambulance coming by there. I was in the tent for a little TLC. I
think it was approximately eight minutes after I crossed, close to 2:40
p.m., when I heard the explosion. I was laying on a cot, having my blood
pressure taken or something like that.
And my initial question was, is that thunder? It was a beautiful day
here in Boston so I didn`t think that was the case. It was a loud crack,
loud boom. You could sense immediately in the tent that it was more than
thunder and certainly a very serious situation.
HAYES: And then did you hear the second explosion right afterwards?
KALKWARF: Yes. I think that`s what triggered it, you knew then -- I
suppose the first thing that came to my mind is there could have been a
generator or a water line, something of that sort. You hope and pray that
it`s not some sort of intentional act.
Unfortunately, it sounds like that`s not the case. Let me, first of
all, say that I -- my prayers are to the victims, which hopefully that`s
not what`s coming in now, but my hearts and prayers goings out to all the
people who are effected.
I got to say the attendance in that tent, imagine -- probably about
the length of a football field but not quite as wide, the people who are in
that tent were immediately on that scene. I don`t think you could have
asked for a better response from medical personnel to handle the victim in
HAYES: They were immediately springing out of that tent to the scene
and bringing people into the tent? Is that where triage was administered?
KALKWARF: Yes. So, as I mentioned, I was in the wheelchair. They
obviously as well had stretchers, et cetera. And, you know, I guess you
would say, the good side of all this is that all that was on scene.
So, if you watch any video, you`ll see these tents -- unlike Oklahoma
City or other similar situations where you see firefighters or whoever
carrying victims, in this case everybody was coming into that medical tent
on stretchers or in wheelchairs.
And pretty quickly after -- I was feeling good. They had gotten me
some salts and fluids, et cetera, so I was doing OK. And they made an
announcement, something to the effect of, we need to move all runners --
all runners we need to move to the far end of the tent and I very vividly
recall the phrase, please all remain calm, you know, something to the
effect of, there`s been an incident, just remain calm.
I mean, just an impressive response from that entire first aid tent to
make sure everything was happening in a quick but also an orderly fashion.
So, I was probably -- my legs were pretty wobbly, they still are quietly,
and I`m just pleased to be even walking based on other scenarios.
But as soon as I was trying to get out of there, the nurses had other
priorities. I was trying to tell them, don`t worry about me, go take care
of other people.
HAYES: Just you know, we are waiting on a live press conference from
Boston with some updates from the Boston police department. And I believe
Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick. They have addressed the press
several times. It will be the Boston Police Department giving some more
updates on the latest there.
Greg Kalkwarf was in the medic tent, speaking to us by phone, when he
saw the first responders spring into action.
And did you see the people brought in? Did you see the kind of
injuries people were sustaining?
KALKWARF: I did. To put it bluntly, I would prefer not to describe
what I saw. I would say only people in military or perhaps EMTs responding
to accident victims or that sort, it`s not something I would not -- as you
might guess, it was bloody injuries, ranging from what I would guess were
superficial to much more severe than that. And you can just speculate
based on what you`ve seen in the medical reports are that -- I saw the
immediate victims being brought in. So it was not pretty.
HAYES: Greg Kalkwarf, who ran the marathon today, was in the medic
tent at moment of the explosion. And I hope you`re feeling better and
thank you so much for joining us tonight. Appreciate it.
KALKWARF: You bet Again, my prayers are out to the families.
HAYES: Thank you, Greg. We have a statement by Secretary Napolitano
on the Boston explosions. "Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone
impacted by this incident in Boston, especially the families and loved ones
of those injured. Federal, state and local law enforcement agencies
continue to respond. At the president`s direction, the Department of
Homeland Security is providing any support necessary in this ongoing
investigation. We encourage the public to be vigilant and listen to
direction from state and local officials."
Don, can I ask you a question? There was quite a bit reaction to this
linguistic question about whether the president did or did not use the word
terrorism to describe the event. Chuck Todd and I had a back and forth you
saw about that. Is there any legal significance? Does it matter at all
from the perspective an investigator on the ground, in that joint operating
command? Is that at all meaningful to doing your job?
BORELLI: At this point, that`s more something for the media to worry
about and what the president said. This investigation is being treated
like terrorism. The default position is when you have multiple devices go
off or attempted to go off, it`s terrorism from an investigative
HAYES: In terms of the resources that are brought to bear?
BORELLI: -- the resources, the laws that will be used, the methods
and techniques of the investigation, this will be treated like terrorism.
How it`s -- until proven otherwise, essentially. Maybe it will turn out to
be just nothing -- as a traditional terrorism with an idealistic motive or
by a specific identified group with an agenda. But at this point, from an
investigator point of view, it`s an act of terrorism.
HAYES: Charles Pierce is a contributing writing for "Esquire" and a
staff writer at GrantLand.com and an incredible reporter. He joins us from
Boston. And Charlie, as a son of Boston, just tell me what the
significance of this day, Patriot Day, and the Boston Marathon Day and a
day that everyone who has ever been a part of it in Boston says is awesome,
the significance of something so horrible happening on this day?
CHARLES PIERCE, "ESQUIRE MAGAZINE": Well, I`ve covered in my former
capacity as a daily sports writer about 15 Boston Marathons. I`ve hung
around far more than that. We all make fun of ourselves up here, because
this is, as you know, a holiday only in Massachusetts because it celebrates
the battles of Lexington and Concord. And the state legislature gets the
day off, and we all make fun of that because they all get to draw it. But
this will be now as dark a day as the city has in its memory.
This is the -- this is the -- I don`t know even what you`d call it.
But the Boston Marathon is one of the few sporting events we have now still
that is not heavily garrisoned, largely because it`s impossible to do it.
It`s 26 miles long. Millions of people line the race. There`s no way to
really garrison it. I had to go through metal detectors to get on the
Capital Mall for the inauguration. There`s no way to do that for the
Boston Marathon. The Boston Marathon is the last true festival sports
event that we have. And now it`s been marked.
HAYES: I just want to direct our viewers` attention. On the right
side of the screen, of course, we have a live shot from Boston where we are
expecting a live update from the Boston Police Department in just moments.
Charles, you went down to the aftermath of the scene after the explosion.
What did you see there?
PIERCE: Well, I mean, I`d like to associate myself with Don there.
The question of whether or not the president says terrorism or not is,
sadly, irrelevant when you walk around Copley square. Terrorism is most
definitely in the mind of the terrorized. This was a shell-shocked -- just
a shell-shocked kind of feeling that you saw.
And the other thing that`s unique to this particular event is you`re
dealing with eyewitnesses who have already run 26 miles today. These are
people who are stunned anyway. And then to come around that last corner
and come down Boylston Street and then walk -- essentially walk into the --
or run or jog into the abyss, it`s beyond my experience.
and what was left when I got down there were exhausted EMTs, the
absolutely exhausted people in the medical tent, and runners trying to get
together with their families. And runners trying -- entire families trying
to regroup on the common and in the public garden and in that part of Back
Bay going towards the Charles River, which wasn`t blocked off.
HAYES: I want to read just some information since you`re talking
about this, for folks that are watching in the Boston -- or around the
Boston area or who are looking for loved ones in Boston. Here`s some
important information about getting in contact with loved ones in the
Boston area tonight. Cell service is jammed up. Google has released an
extremely useful tool called Google`s Person Finder. You go to
Google.org/PersonFinder. That will direct you to Boston Marathon
explosions. From there you follow the prompts. You`re either looking for
someone or you have information about someone.
And with cell service so spotty right now because of the overload,
this is a really great way, if you have an Internet connection, to try to
track down folks and loved ones and friends in Boston. Also you can log on
to RedCross.org. Their safe and well system serves a similar purpose.
People can register information about someone they`re looking for.
And finally, Boston.com has set up a Google doc for people who need a
place to stay, or have a place to house runners who can`t get back to their
hotels or fly out of the city. We`ll put that up on our website.
And I know that the amazing thing about marathon day in major cities -
- and I`ve never been to the Boston Marathon, but I have been to them in a
lot of cities -- is the tremendous communal spirit that they tend to
engender, which is what makes today`s events all the more horrifying.
Charlie, I wonder your sense of how the Boston police and local Boston
officials have responded to this and what the feeling in the city is about
that response so far.
PIERCE: Let`s go from the most on the ground and work out. The EMTs
and the emergency responders and the Boston Police, most of whom had been
on duty at their stations on Boylston Street since midnight last night,
their response was nothing short of exemplary. They went in there -- one
of the day`s cruel ironies is they had to take down the safety barriers to
get the injured, because Boylston Street is lined with these metal safety
barriers to keep the crowds back.
And when the EMTs got there, they had to take these things apart to
get to the people who were injured on the sidewalk. All accounts are that
the EMTs and the first responders did an absolutely magnificent job of what
had to be just an out of nowhere event. My sense is now, having been
around, is that the federal response is starting to take over from the
I think Don alluded to this earlier. As soon as they set up the joint
operating center, then it`s a federal investigation. The Boston Police,
the ones I spoke to who were on the scene, they were very nervous. They
were very jumpy. I kept -- the worst two words in the English language for
me today were secondary device. I heard it three or four times as I walked
through Back Bay, trying to get as close as I can to the scene of the
I think most -- what you had there was essentially a controlled area
anyway. And you had police who had been on duty since midnight. so they
were at least on station to control the area around Back Bay when they had
HAYES: We`ve also got Kurt Nickisch with us from WBAR, the Boston
Public Radio station. He joins us from phone. Kurt, you`ve been out and
about today and doing some fantastic reporting I`ve been following myself.
What are you hearing? What is the latest you are hearing?
KURT NICKISCH, REPORTER, WBAR: Well, I think what`s really
interesting is how a lot of Bostonians have rallied to help a lot of the
runners, many of whom weren`t even able to finish the race because it was
cut short and cut off. A lot of the crime scene is in and around hotels
where people are staying. And thousands of people have offered places for
people to stay.
And there`s been a reaction from folks because this is -- this is a
really special day in Boston. I Tweeted this morning, before anything
happened, that it`s the greatest day of the year in Boston. It`s a great
public event. This is about professional runners, but also thousands of
amateurs who are doing this amazing feet. And it`s unlike the Superbowl or
other events where it`s exclusive and expensive to get tickets. This is
free to everybody.
It`s an amazing community spirit. And not just American. Because
it`s a big international event. An Ethiopian and a Kenyan runner both won
the women`s and men`s divisions today. Thousands of people come from
around the world. It`s an amazing tribute to sort of the human spirit.
That`s why it strikes everybody here so wrong.
HAYES: In fact, one of the most iconic moments I think in the
horrifying video that we have seen, that was taken, is, as you see the
explosion and the camera moves in to where the explosion, there is this
line of flags from across countries of the world representing people from
different countries around the world who have come to participate. That is
precisely the place, you know, nothing more kind of open or cosmopolitan
than this image we`re seeing right now of country after country after
country`s flags literally bombed, literally attacked in that moment. That
I think is the moment that we`ve all seen today.
And there`s something really powerful symbolically about that. This
is a very open event.
NICKISCH: Absolutely. And it`s right across the street -- the finish
line is right across the street from the Boston Public Library, the first
public library in the country. The sign over its doors says "free to all."
This is an open spirit and a race that`s all about liberty and human
HAYES: And I would also say, as we look at this footage and as
obviously we`re thinking about the victims, we`re thinking about those who
are currently right now, as we speak, receiving surgery in some of the
hospitals around Boston, those who are reunited with loved ones, those who
have been amputated and suffered the loss of limbs, on a day of such
tremendous horror that there has been, as always, as there are in this
country and around the world, tremendous examples of nobility and grace and
solidarity and communal spirit and bravery and toughness and kindness in
all of the people around, not just the first responders, but in the folks
who are there.
We`ve seen pictures of just random strangers rushing in as volunteers
to help folks. And I think it`s important that we all keep our eyes on
that. Don, I want to ask you, after 9/11 there was a tremendous and
profound transformation of the way that we provided security to events in
this country. Everything from going into a Midtown Manhattan office
building and showing them your ID, having your bag searched at Yankee
Stadium, anything like that, right? What transformations do you think
might come out of this?
What -- to what extent is a mass open event that covers a 26-mile
route like this even a thing that could plausibly be defended from this
kind of attack?
BORELLI: Yes, it`s tough because unlike a Super Bowl or an event
where you`re funneling everyone into one kind of fixed space and you have
the opportunity to do more screening, this event is spread out over 26
miles. So it`s tough. Obviously the organizers of the vent and the
participants, the city of Boston, it`s meant to be fun. And sometimes it`s
a challenge to balance security with making it fun for the participants,
because not everybody wants to spend six hours in line to get into a place
and have their bag checked and this and that. People will eventually will
So you have to try to find that balance. I think as the investigation
unfolds, we`ll maybe learn what was done in this, and maybe how -- lessons
learned on how to prevent it. How soon were these devices placed before
they blew up? Was there a way to prevent that? Did -- did Boston need
more patrols, dogs, or technical devices that could have helped identify
one of these devices in place? You know, who knows? Probably not.
Sometimes you do everything by the book, and still --
HAYES: And still.
BORELLI: -- it happens.
HAYES: Kurt, there was a remarkable moment -- and Charlie, I`d love
to hear your thoughts on this today. There was a remarkable moment with
Mayor Tom Menino, who has been serving as Boston mayor for many years. He
has recently announced he will not seek re-election. He was actually in
the hospital, came back from the hospital to address reporters today. And
the mayor has -- really looms large in the city of Boston because of the
duration and the fame of his tenure there.
NICKISCH: For sure. I mean, he was -- he`s been mayor for 20 years
and, of course, was mayor on 9/11 when two of the planes left Boston Logan
Airport. So security here has been taken uber seriously ever since. In
many ways, this was the worst place to try to do something like this,
because police had swept that area. There were emergency responders who
did yeoman`s work, taking care of people immediately, highly trained folks
There were dozens, if not hundreds of police in those two blocks, and
race officials. Police were drawing their pistol within seconds of the
explosion. So the presence was there. I`m sure much will be examined.
But -- and how much they spent on security in the past, but it`s -- you
know, from all accounts, at least at first, they did what they were
supposed to do.
HAYES: Kurt Nickisch of --
HAYES: Kurt Nickisch, thank you so much. Sorry. It looks like we`re
PIERCE: No --
HAYES: They`re not starting the presser? Are they starting the
presser? We will bring you that presser live when we have the sound. We
are looking at a live shot of Boston.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to have the governor join us again. The
U.S. attorney`s here, the district attorney, police commissioner, FBI, et
cetera. So we`re going to bring them up.
HAYES: Appears to be a brief two-minute warning that the presser is
about to begin. And we are awaiting a briefing from Governor Deval
Patrick, Boston police commissioner and other officials on the latest
updates in the aftermath of the bombing today of the Boston Marathon.
GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Everybody set? I`m going to
make a couple of comments and then turn it over to Rick Deslauriers, who`s
a special agent in charge of the FBI`s office here, and then ask
Commissioner Ed Davis to make some comments. And then we`re happy to take
any questions that you may have.
As you well know, this whole community has been dealing with a
horrific event today, two explosion on Boylston Street near the finish line
of today`s Boston Marathon. Over 100 people were injured, some gravely.
We are not ready yet to confirm the details of those injuries.
There are federal, state and local law enforcement all on scene and
coordinating very closely. The FBI has taken charge of the investigation.
As I mentioned, special agent in charge Rick Deslauriers will speak to that
in just a minute.
This is an active investigation, particularly in the several blocks
around Boylston Street, around that blast area. That is a crime scene.
The National Guard has secured that crime scene and is limiting access to
it. So that will affect not just this evening, but the next day or two
while the investigation continues.
A support center has been opened at the Park Plaza Castle on Arlington
and Columbus Avenue. Runners -- there were several runners who were unable
to finish the race, as you may know, because the race was stopped at Mass
Avenue, right after the event. There are buses bringing those runners from
various cities and towns along the route to that support station now.
And families who have not had a chance yet to connect or other friends
and supporters not yet had a chance to connect with runners or who have
other needs can check in there at the support center. The city, the mayor
and his staff have made staff available at the support center to help meet
people`s needs. Otherwise the city of Boston is open, and will be open
tomorrow, but it will not be business as usual. It will be a heightened
law enforcement presence consistent with the severity and seriousness of
the ongoing investigation.
People should expect, those who are riding the T, that there will be
random checks of backpacks and other parcels. And we just ask everyone to
be patient with that inconvenience for the time being. It is for the
We`re also asking that everyone be on a state of heightened vigilance.
That is really required of everyone. Please report suspicious packages or
parcels or suspicious activity to local law enforcement.
I also want to say that there have been a number of stories I have
heard this afternoon of residents in Boston and along the route in the
cities and towns that the marathon passes through, of extraordinary
kindness shown to runners and others, neighbors and visitors who are as
shaken by this experience as we are. And we so appreciate those
kindnesses, and thank you for them.
We`re going to get through this. We do not have all the answers to
all of your questions yet, not all of you here in the media or others
around the commonwealth, around the country or the world. But I can tell
you from the president to the members of our Congressional delegation to
many, many fellow governors who have called to check in, to all of the
leaders in law enforcement here in the state, at the local level and at the
federal level, we are all coming together to do everything we can to get to
the bottom of this.
Let me turn the podium over now to Special Agent in Charge Rick
RICHARD DESLAURIERS, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI: Thank you very
much, Governor Patrick. The most important fact that I want to convey to
everybody this evening has already been mentioned by Governor Patrick. The
FBI is taking the lead in this investigation. It is asserting federal
jurisdiction. It will do so through the Boston Joint Terrorism Task Force,
members of which are comprised by all the members of law enforcement
agencies here represented at the podium. This will be a combined federal,
state and local effort. It will be an ongoing investigation.
It is a criminal investigation that has the potential -- is a
potential terrorist investigation. We will be working diligently to gather
information and gather all the facts and bring those who are responsible
for this crime to justice as swiftly as possible. It is an ongoing
investigation, as Governor Patrick mentioned. I`m not at liberty right now
to go into details of the ongoing investigation.
But echoing Governor Patrick`s words, I encourage everyone to have a
heightened state of vigilance here in the Boston area tonight and tomorrow
as we move forward. I urge anybody who has any information pertaining to
this crime to call 1-800-CallFBI. This is a tip line that we have set up
ready to receive tips that might come in or leads that might come in. The
FBI is bringing a substantial -- very, very substantial federal resources
to bear, along with our federal partners. ATF is well represented here.
Gene Markez (ph) from the Boston ATF office has been a key ally of ours.
All the law enforcement agencies here will be bringing tremendous resources
All federal resources that can be brought to bear will be brought up
here to the Boston area. So that being said, I will turn it over now. I
think U.S. Attorney Ortiz wanted to say a few words, and then we`ll turn it
over to Commissioner Davis.
CARMEN ORTIZ, U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, good evening. I just want to echo
what the governor has said and what many others have said throughout the
day today, that this is a horrific tragedy in our city of Boston. And we,
on behalf of the Department of Justice, are here to provide all the
resources necessary to this investigation.
There are a lot of questions and questions that we wish we could
answer at this point. But what I can assure you is that this is a very
thorough and active and fluid ongoing investigation. And I ask you that
you help with that. Quite frankly, I know that there is a lot of
information that is being sought, as the govern every said. There`s been a
bit of misinformation.
We do not want to add to that misinformation. And what we want to do
is to continue to investigate this matter, get to the individual or
individuals that may be responsible for this. And the Department of
Justice is prepared to provide all of the assistance necessary to our --
not only the FBI and ATF and our other federal agencies, but our state and
local partners as well. So I just wanted to echo that on behalf the
ED DAVIS, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, United States
attorney. On behalf of Mayor Menino, I`d like to offer my sympathies to
the victims and families of this horrendous event. This cowardly act will
not be taken in stride. We will turn every rock over to find the people
who are responsible for this. We`re working very closely with my partner,
Rick Deslauriers. The Boston Police Department is on the scene and has
been there since this incident happened.
There`s been a horrendous loss of life. At least three people have
died in this event. But the number of injuries and the people injured is
an unfolding issue right now. We will not have hard figures on that until
tomorrow morning. There were all sorts of questions that are being asked.
I want to stress one thing. There is no suspect at Brigham and Women`s
Hospital. There are people that we are talking to. But there is no
suspect at Brigham and Women`s hospital, as has been widely reported in the
press. I`d like to fix that right now.
Again, there will be questions that -- that you have. And we`ll do
our best to answer them, but this is still very early in the investigation.
Tomorrow, as the governor said, will not be business as usual in Boston.
The Boston Police Department is on emergency deployment. We are working
12-hour shifts. And there will be a significant police presence through
Please give us some space around the Copley area as we process this
scene. Again, if there are any -- any piece was information or photos from
the incident, getting those to the FBI tip line -- primarily they`re now in
charge of the investigation because of the nature of this investigation, as
well as the Boston police line at 1-800-494-tips. I would now like to
invite the district attorney, Dan Conley, to say a few words.
DAN CONLEY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Thank you very much, commissioner. I
was on Boylston Street near the finish line, had left about 30 minutes
before this incident occurred. And a short time ago, Commissioner Davis,
myself, Colonel Alben (ph) and Special Agent Deslauriers and our top staff
went down to the scene. It was a large and disturbing scene.
Like each of you, I`m praying for the victims and their loved ones.
This is a terrible, terrible day for them. They and the public at large
can count on our very best and most seamless work in the days to come.
Seconds after those bombs went off, we saw civilians running to help the
victims right alongside members of the Boston Police Department and Boston
EMS. And in the hours that followed, police and medical personnel from
across the region have sent dozens, maybe even hundreds of volunteers to
help us here in Boston.
That`s what Americans do. In times of crisis, we come together and we
help one another. Moments like these, terrible as they are, don`t show our
weakness. They show our strength. Thank you.
PATRICK: Take any questions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, why were (inaudible) -- moments before the
bomb went off? Is this another falsified attack to take our civil
liberties with more homeland security (inaudible)?
PATRICK: No. Next question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have said that there`s no suspect, but is
there a person of interest either at Park Plaza or at Brigham and Women`s?
DESLAURIERS: I`m not going to comment on specific investigative leads
that are ongoing right now. I`m not at liberty to. But there is
investigative activity ongoing right now. But I`m not at liberty to
comment on the specifics of that.
DESLAURIERS: Again, it is a very active and fluid investigation at
this time. All resources, federal, state and local, are being brought --
brought to bear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many devices did you find? Can you comment
on that, how many explosive devices?
DESLAURIERS: Again, I`m not going to comment on specifics of the
investigation right now, in terms of the number of explosives that were
found at the location.
DESLAURIERS: I`m not going to comment. Evidence analysis is ongoing
right now. It would be imprudent for me to comment before that evidentiary
review is finished.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your advice for people who work in the
area? (inaudible) what should people do tomorrow?
PATRICK: Just in the area that is the cordoned off crime scene, which
is -- basically runs along Boylston Street from Berkeley to Mass Avenue and
then north to Newbury Street and south to Huntington Street, that`s the
secure area right now. Now that may get smaller over the course of the
next several hours of investigation. But that area is not going to be
accessible for normal traffic.
There are people in hotels and people who live there who have to work
out how they get to and from where they need to be. But otherwise, I think
it`s fair to say that area`s pretty much going to be locked down until the
investigation is complete.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So people can walk to their offices, they walk
PATRICK: Well, I think some of that has to be sorted out. But it`s
not going to be -- it`s not going to be easy, simple or regular. And I
think in most cases, people are not going to be able to have access to that
specific area as it evolves over the course of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what do people do?
PATRICK: Exactly, exactly. This is -- I would say in this sense,
this is a little like storms we`ve dealt with, where we are very much going
to depend on you. As soon as we get information, we will put that out.
And we will count on you to get it out to the general public.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you confident you found all of the
explosives? Are you confident that people are safe now?
DAVIS: We are in the process of going through all the abandoned
property that was discarded at those places. We`ve pretty much cleared the
Boylston Street area. There are no further devices that we have located at
this point in time. But we are getting reports from various places about
suspicion packages. That`s perfectly understandable in this situation.
I`m not prepared to say that we are at ease at this point in time. We
are still very actively pursuing every lead that we have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you confirm that, that an eight-year-old
child was killed?
DAVIS: I`m not going to confirm that right now. We`ll have that
information for you first thing in the morning. The medical people are
compiling that as we speak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- extent of the injuries, how serious people?
DAVIS: There was a powerful blast. There were serious, serious
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the investigation include the entire marathon
DAVIS: No. We`ve locked -- I mean, the investigation will lead us in
various places. But right now that area that the governor outlined is our
main point of focus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People to be calm before the bomb went off --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- search for additional devices, are you
searching the entire route of the marathon or you just focused on certain
areas right now? Are there different areas that you are focused on beyond
the Copley area?
DAVIS: At this point in time, our focus of the investigation is in
the area that the governor mentioned ?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If so, how would (inaudible)
DAVIS: We`re actually working very closely with the families right
now. We`re setting up a location near here that families can come to if
they have any questions. The mayor`s office has fielded many calls of
concern. We`re going through those right now.
PATRICK: 9:30 tomorrow morning is the next briefing. Thank you.
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