'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Wednesday, April 17th, 2013
Read the transcript to the Wednesday show
THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
April 17, 2013
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
Guests: Deval Patrick, James Cavanaugh, Roxanna Green, Kevin Cullen
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST: Today, the gun lobbyists at the NRA got
what they wanted on the floor of the United States Senate. And tonight,
lobbyists from the NRA have made it harder for the FBI to find the murderer
who planted the bombs here in Boston.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigation into Monday`s bombing in
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of information flying around right
PETE WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: We`ve heard conflicting information.
BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: Various media accounts right now as to
whether or not someone is in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A suspect is about to be arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have just been told that an arrest has been
B. WILLIAMS: We are not just comfortable at this hour reporting that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several law enforcement sources tell us that
P. WILLIAMS: All of our sources say no arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the record, there`s been no arrests in the
Boston bombings case.
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Here is what we actually know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators have identified solid leads from
B. WILLIAMS: Investigators have obtained video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surveillance video specifically from a
B. WILLIAMS: The person placing a black bag down near the scene of
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the same time, as you`ve heard, they are
piecing together the bomb parts.
P. WILLIAMS: It`s a very promising lead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tracking where they were purchased.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation is accelerating fairly rapidly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to us the other day will not callous
(ph). It will not change us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened the other day was not just an attack
against Boston, it`s an attack against all of us.
O`DONNELL: There are new developments tonight in the bombing
investigation here in Boston. But that investigation could be moving
faster were it not for the successful lobbying efforts of the National
The NRA`s efforts to guarantee that American mass murderers are the
best-equipped mass murderers in the world is not limited to murders who use
assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. The NRA is also in the
business of helping bombers get away with their crimes. Gunpowder could be
traced by investigators to a buyer at the point of sale if gunpowder
contained a taggant, an element that would enable the tracing of gunpowder.
But thanks to the National Rifle Association, identification taggants
are required by law only in plastic explosives. The NRA has successfully
blocked any requirements for such taggants in gunpowder, so such supremely
helpful evidence as taggants are now available to the FBI in this
The FBI tells NBC News it is following some promising leads. One in
particular, video and images collected by authorities showing someone
carrying a heavy backpack or duffel bag and placing it at the spot where
the second bomb went off. Key evidence is also being obtained from footage
captured by a video camera above one of the bomb sites. That camera was on
top of the Lord & Taylor department store on Boylston Street, just over
here, one block away.
Despite conflicting reports in the media, none of which came from this
network, there has been no arrest of any individual or individuals at this
time. The FBI and Boston police are calling for restraint from the news
Adding to the confusion here in Boston today, the federal courthouse
was evacuated earlier this afternoon. Employees were given what`s known as
a code red order to leave as a result of a bomb scare.
We`ve also obtained more photos of evidence collected from the bomb
sites. Here`s a closer look at the fragments left from the pieces of a
NBC News` Pete Williams points out that one of the pressure cooker
lids ended up on the roof of a nearby building because the force of the
explosion was so great.
This photo shows BBs and a nail believed to be part of the shrapnel in
one of the bombs along what could be the zipper from one of those black
backpacks or nylon bags authorities have mentioned. Investigators know the
type of batteries use and NBC`s Michael Isikoff reports they were in a
battery pack made by a company in California used to power toy cars and
often for sale in hobby shops.
Officials have opened up more of the area around the crime scene,
focusing their investigation primarily on those two explosion points and
the stretch of Boylston Street.
I`m joined now by Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick.
Governor, thanks for joining me tonight.
GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Nice to see you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Governor, I`d like you to tell the story about how you
found out about these explosions. I heard you explain this on a local
interview. Tell us how you found out.
PATRICK: I had been out at the finish line crowning the men`s and
women`s winners earlier in the day and I had finished up, I don`t know,
1:00 or so --
O`DONNELL: You had done your governor duty for the day.
PATRICK: I did my governor duty. I had an unusually empty afternoon,
I did some errands and I went to work out.
And I was driving home and my youngest daughter called from this
neighborhood. She wasn`t actually at the race but nearby and she said,
dad, I heard two loud booms and everybody`s running. What`s going on?
And I said, I don`t know. But let me find out.
And I asked the state trooper I was with whether he knew what was
going on and he said, no, but I`ll check in. And, of course --
O`DONNELL: So here`s the governor of Massachusetts, two bombs have
gone off on Boylston Street at the Boston marathon and you have the state
police, you have all sorts of resources, and the first call you get is from
PATRICK: It was probably, is I don`t know, 15 minutes after it had
happened. And I think frankly, law enforcement was doing what is their
first priority, which is helping those that have been hurt.
O`DONNELL: So you then, through the state police, confirmed that
something really serious happened?
PATRICK: Right. And of course, we were hoping that it was anything
but bombs. We were hoping that they were celebratory cannons or anything
else, but we had to figure out the secure place to be and how to get close
to the scene and help folks take charge.
O`DONNELL: Now, you`re in briefings about what`s really going on here
in terms of the investigation, how do you think the news media got so out
of control on this today?
PATRICK: I don`t know exactly the answer to that, Lawrence. I mean,
people are hungry for information. I understand that. And not just in the
media to scope the story but in the general public. It`s the kind of
investigation that requires going through those several blocks around the
blast scene, square inch by square inch, and that is slow and deliberate
and methodical and it should be.
I think that what I`ve been saying to people is it isn`t so until the
FBI says it is so. And they have been in charged of investigation and
many, many federal and local agencies working with them.
O`DONNELL: You`ve gotten to the hospital now and you visited with
Bill and Denise Richard, the couple who lost their 8-year-old son just a
block away. What was that like today?
PATRICK: Well, I know them. I have for some time. They have been
active in my campaign. In fact, when I spoke to Bill yesterday, he
reminded me of a photograph that he has of Martin when he was then 2 or 3
years old holding a campaign sign. And you can imagine --
O`DONNELL: What was it like for you to hear -- the word came out that
it was an 8-year-old boy. How soon did you know who that was and which
family this was?
PATRICK: Fairly, fairly soon.
O`DONNELL: Before the names are released?
PATRICK: Not too much before they were released. You guys are very
diligent about digging up the information.
But this is a wonderful family surrounded by a very loving community
and we have all felt their loss.
O`DONNELL: I was out in your neighborhood yesterday, which is very
close around the corner from where I grew up.
PATRICK: In Dorchester?
O`DONNELL: Yes. And it is -- as you know, the mood out there is
quite grim and down. What can you tell us about Denise, the mother`s
injuries? She`s -- and her daughter has lost a leg, we know that.
PATRICK: That`s right. Her daughter was in surgery today. I visited
with both mom and dad. Mom was out of surgery from yesterday and doing
well. Obviously tired, both --
O`DONNELL: Was she able to speak?
O`DONNELL: She has a head injury, doesn`t she?
PATRICK: She -- I don`t want to get into the details of her injury.
We did talk and she was -- you know, she`s feeling all those layers of
emotion, both a sense of loss and the importance of rallying for Henry and
Jane and for Bill and for herself.
O`DONNELL: Do they have a sense of how the country, not just Boston,
feels about their loss in particular?
PATRICK: That`s a really interesting question.
O`DONNELL: There`s a feeling that goes to the youngest victims in
PATRICK: I think they have a very, very clear sense of how Martin in
particular but the family generally has become a symbol for what has
happened and kind of a touch point for all of our grief and I think they
love that and are a little daunted by it at the same time, as a person
O`DONNELL: The president is coming tomorrow.
O`DONNELL: Have you had a chance to talk to him about coming to
PATRICK: I talked to him last yesterday morning. The days are
blurring a little bit. His was one of the first calls actually after the
explosion and explosions. And he`s put every law enforcement resource at
the federal level at our disposal and I appreciate that he`s coming to
comfort us, really.
O`DONNELL: I know he and the first lady want to visit hospitals but
there`s some concern about how disruptive that might be with the
presidential security and motorcade.
PATRICK: Right. Right. The president is very self-aware of that.
He also -- he loves being with people and I think he understands that it`s
a different kind of comfort you can give when you can actually touch
someone and look them directly in the eye rather than do respect through a
But also, as I say, sensitive to what the movement of a president does
to a town. So I -- they were sorting that out this afternoon. I actually
don`t know where that was left.
O`DONNELL: Governor, what happened at 5:00 today? You were scheduled
to be in a briefing, a news briefing with the FBI, the routine briefing
that occurred every day.
O`DONNELL: That was canceled. Why?
PATRICK: Well, I don`t know all the reasons. The biggest issue in
the late afternoon was the evacuation of the federal building where the
offices are and that was disruptive to everybody. I don`t know whether by
5:00 they were back in the building. But that kind of made a mess of the
day and the work.
Their first focus is the investigation. And every minute they aren`t
spending on the investigation is time away from getting to the bottom of
So I think everybody recognizes how hungry folks are for information
and I think it`s -- even if they show up and say we can`t comment on those
details -- and I think we`ll probably see more briefings going forward.
But I think people should also be prepared for lots of those briefings
where they can`t answer all the questions people have yet because either
they don`t have them or it`s not the right time to reveal information that
might compromise the investigation. So --
O`DONNELL: Governor Deval Patrick, thank you very much for joining
PATRICK: Good to be with you. Thanks for being here.
O`DONNELL: I hope it`s your final duty of the night. Thank you very
PATRICK: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, investigators believe they have a suspect.
We`ll have the latest details in the investigation.
And then later, you will hear President Obama`s angry reaction to the
votes in the Senate today on massacre control, including his reply to Rand
Paul`s statement about the Sandy Hook Elementary School.
And the mother of the 9-year-old girl who was killed in the Gabby
Giffords shooting will join me. Her daughter would be alive today if high
capacity magazines were illegal in this country.
O`DONNELL: Today, we learn the identity of the third person killed by
the bombs at the Boston marathon. Lingzi Lu was a graduate student at
Boston University. She moved to Boston a year ago form Shenyang (ph),
China, to study mathematics and statistics. Lu was killed while watching
the marathon with two of her friends.
Up next, how investigators identified a suspect in the bombing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We will find out and we will
hold accountable and bring to justice whoever is responsible. But this
investigation is now not even 48 hours old and it is important that we
maintain the integrity of the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, the FBI first postponed and then canceled their
regular briefing on the investigation into the Boston marathon bombing.
Authorities told NBC News that investigators have a face but not the name
of someone seen on camera. They just have the face, someone seen on camera
dropping a black bag near the second blast site.
An official says investigators are zeroing in on some people.
Joining me now is NBC News national investigative correspondent
Michael Isikoff and former special agent at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms and Explosives, James Cavanaugh.
Michael, what do you think happened today? How did the news media get
out of control on this? Some of the other networks saying they had an
arrest -- and then how did that in any way possibly lead to the canceling
of the regular briefing?
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, NBC NEWS NATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We
don`t know for sure. And it`s too bad because it would have been good to
clear up what`s become a very confusing situation but my sense is, some
investigators got pretty excited about these surveillance photos, that they
were able to identify somebody who they thought had left off a bag at the
bomb site that could have been the bomb.
They were helped very much by the footage they got in from the camera
at the Lord & Taylor department store, a few hundred yards down the road
here. And that led to a lot of excitement and hopes that there had been a
It`s not clear how big of a breakthrough it is. Clearly, it`s
progress. Clearly, they`ve got something to work with.
But I`m -- we`re reporting tonight that they`ve distributed -- the FBI
is distributing a photo image of the individual to other federal law
enforcement agencies, asking for them to help in helping to identify this
individual. It`s a pretty good indication they don`t know at this moment
who that is.
And so this could still be yet quite an arduous task trying to figure
out, without a name who they are looking for. They don`t know who they are
looking for and beyond that, they don`t know that that person is
necessarily directly connected to the bombing. They know that they`ve got
some surveillance photo that suggestive, that raises a lot of questions
they want answered.
But my sense of the moment is, we`re still pretty far away off from
getting a real breakthrough in this case.
O`DONNELL: James Cavanaugh, I`d like to ask you about one of the
things that could help this case, an asset that the FBI and police do not
have is the ability to trace gunpowder. Why do they not have that ability
JAMES CAVANAUGH, FORMER ATF SPECIAL AGENT: Well, that was blocked in
the `70s, Lawrence, by the NRA. ATF and 3M Corporation developed the
microscopic explosive taggants. These were little taggants, the size of a
period on a piece of paper.
And I was around at the time, we trained with them, they were magnetic
and they would glow in the dark. We would take these go out with magnets,
special gloves, black lights, and we could actually recover these taggants
after a bomb detonated and be able to tell us the date shift code, which is
basically the lot and serial number of a batch of dynamite.
We were very excited about it. We sent some of those explosives into
the field, a homicide case was solved in the Baltimore division with it but
eventually when it got to the Hill, gun lobby got involved, basically said,
you know, if you let the ATF tag explosives, next they are going to tag the
powder because bombs were made to that. And, you know, the next things
would have been rhododendrons and whatever. But we never got through.
And I think it did hurt over the years many bombing cases, which is
what ATF is specifically interested in solving 40 years ago and through
O`DONNELL: James, where do you think this investigation would be
tonight were it not for the NRA`s blocking that particular investigative
CAVANAUGH: Well, in theory, Lawrence, it could have given us a lot
number. In theory, that`s possible. You know, when you`re working on a
difficult case like this as Mike described, every little bit of information
can help you build the case.
But you just had the governor on and I just want to say, you know,
this case from afar was being well run. This task force was tight, despite
what happened today in the media, this task force is great. You can see
the way it`s been running. I`ve been involved in many of these cases.
The agencies, Boston police, Boston police bomb squad, detective
bureau, right on through the state police, ATF, FBI, immigration, the U.S.
And I`ve worked with Governor Patrick. He flew to Alabama and worked
with me on the church fires, on the ground. He`s a good leader. They are
doing a great job and they are going to break the case.
O`DONNELL: James, do you have any insight as to why this briefing
would have been canceled today?
CAVANAUGH: I think it was probably a decision point, Lawrence. I
think the commanders are probably at a decision point on whether or not
they are going to further release the images. Mike talked about it and
he`s exactly right. You know, you have an image, it could be very
significant to identify a person or not.
Let me give you an example. In the Eric Rudolph case, and I was in
Birmingham in that end of the bombing, we had a photograph of Eric Rudolph
with the Alice pack, with a backpack, with a bomb in it at Olympic park but
the photograph was so distant, we could hardly make him out.
We used to call them in the command post, blob man, because we could
see him sitting there, but we couldn`t really make out the features. We
had that image for years but were never able to get an identification from
So the clarity of the video, you know, is the face available, is the
clothes readily recognizable. The commanders are trying to make all of
those decisions carefully.
And I would say this. I try to release it in a tight circle to see if
I can get something first and then start making the decision, I wouldn`t
want to start holding that too long if I thought I could get to the
identity of the guy or perpetrators by releasing to the public. Because
the main thing is to catch these bombers before they strike again.
O`DONNELL: Michael Isikoff, it seems that the next FBI briefing will,
for some number of minutes anyway, be bogged down in the procedural
question of why did you cancel the last briefing?
ISIKOFF: Right. But also --
O`DONNELL: And up until now, it has been as James said it, an
absolutely, flawlessly run system.
ISIKOFF: Well, look, they`ve also got to figure out exactly what they
are going to say and exactly how much they are going to release. I mean,
they are going to be bombarded with questions about what they know about
the potential persons of interests.
I hesitate to call them suspects. They haven`t called them suspects
But how much they know, how much they want to release, do they want to
solicit help from the public in identifying who these people are? My sense
is they are not there yet. That`s why they are showing the photos that I`m
told was being distributed tonight involves a white man with a baseball cap
about six feet tall or more.
Now, you know, the first blush is, do you have anything that looks
like this guy? Do you know anything about this person? If they don`t get
something fairly quickly, I think they may well go to the public and we may
well be seeing this photo asking the public, have you ever seen this
O`DONNELL: Michael Isikoff and James Cavanaugh, thank you both for
joining me tonight.
CAVANAUGH: Thanks, Lawrence.
Coming up, Rand Paul`s insults to the parents of the children killed
at Sandy Hook Elementary School. You will see President Obama`s response
to that in his own angry words. And the mother of the 9-year-old girl who
was killed in the shooting that took down Gabby Giffords will join me and
she will also respond to what Rand Paul had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: When I see the father and mothers and
them testifying and I knew they were coming voluntarily and want to be part
of this debate, it still saddens me just to see them. I think that in some
cases the president has used them as props and that disappoints me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A minority of senators decided to stand with Rand today,
but that was enough to deny democracy in the United States Senate once
again. The president`s answer to Rand Paul`s slur against the families who
have lost loved ones in gun massacres came today in the Rose Garden. The
president`s powerful response to Rand Paul is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: We`re here on six-year terms
for a reason, to take votes on difficult issues. Everything needs 60 votes
today. This is supposed to be a majority body. Show some guts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A majority of senators found the guts to vote for a very
mild-mannered expansion of background checks on purchases of guns in this
country. But this was one of those days when a majority is not enough in
the United States Senate and democracy was, once again, denied.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vote -- on this
vote, the yeahs are 54, the nays are 46. Under the previous order
requiring 60 votes for the adoption of this amendment, the amendment is not
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. president --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you!
BIDEN: There will be order in the Senate. The gallery will refrain
from any demonstration or comment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That voice from the gallery speaking the moral truth to
power was Patricia Maisch, who has been a recurring guest on this program
because she is the woman who helped tackle the shooter in the Tucson
massacre when he had to pause to reload one of his high capacity magazine.
Also in the Senate gallery today was Roxanna Green, the mother of Christina
Taylor Green, who was murdered in that Tucson parking lot that day.
Christina Taylor Green would be alive if the shooter had to reload after
firing only 10 bullets instead of 33.
Roxanna Green will join me later with her reaction to what happened in
the Senate chamber today. Because of the republican procedural road block,
all of the amendments voted on today required 60 votes to pass. After the
votes, President Obama, flanked by the family members of murdered six and
seven year olds, and a former congressman who had been shot in the head --
the president tried to explain to Americans why their democracy isn`t
always a democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A few months ago, in
response to too many tragedies, including the shootings of a United States
congresswoman, Gabby Giffords, who is here today, and the murder of 20
innocent school children and their teachers, this country took up the cause
of protecting more of our people from gun violence. Families that know
unspeakable grief summoned the courage to petition their elected leaders,
not just to honor the memory of their children, but to protect the lives of
all of our children.
A few minutes ago, a minority in the United States Senate decided it
wasn`t worth it. They blocked common sense gun reforms, even while these
families looked on from the Senate gallery. By now it`s well known that 90
percent of the American people support universal background checks that
make it harder for a dangerous person to buy a gun. We`re talking about
convicted felons, people convicted of domestic violence, people with a
severe mental illness. Ninety percent of Americans support that idea.
Most Americans think that`s already the law. A few minutes ago, 90
percent of Democrats in the Senate voted for that idea. But it`s not going
to happen because 90 percent of Republicans in the Senate just voted
against that idea. The gun lobby and its allies willfully lied about the
bill. They claimed that it would create some sort of Big Brother gun
registry, even though the bill did the opposite. This legislation, in
fact, outlawed any registry, plain and simple, right there in the text.
But that didn`t matter. And unfortunately this pattern of spreading
untruths about this legislation served a purpose because those lies upset
an intense minority of gun owners. And that, in turn, intimidated a lot of
senators. There were no coherent arguments as to why we wouldn`t do this.
It came down to politics, the worry that that vocal minority of gun owners
would come after them in future elections.
They worried that the gun lobby would spend a lot of money and paint
them as anti-Second Amendment. Obviously a lot of Republicans had that
fear, but Democrats had that fear, too. And so they caved to the pressure.
And they started looking for an excuse, any excuse to vote no.
I`ve heard folks say that having the families of victims lobby for
this legislation was somehow misplaced. A prop, somebody called them,
emotional blackmail, some outlet said. Are they serious? Do we really
think that thousands of families whose lives have been shattered by gun
violence don`t have a right to weigh in on this issue? Do we think their
emotions, their loss is not relevant to this debate?
So, all in all, this was a pretty shameful day for Washington. But
this effort is not over.
I see this as just round one. And when Newtown happened, I met with
these families, and I spoke to the community, and I said something must be
different right now. We`re going to have to change. And that`s what the
whole country said. Everybody talked about how we were going to change
something to make sure this didn`t happen again, just like everybody talked
about how we needed to do something after Aurora. Everybody talked about
we need to change something after Tucson.
And I`m assuming the emotions that we`ve all felt since Newtown, the
emotions that we`ve all felt since Tucson and Aurora and Chicago, the pain
we share with these families and families all across the country who have
lost a loved one due to gun violence -- I`m assuming that`s not a temporary
thing. I`m assuming our expressions of grief and our commitment to do
something different to prevent these things from happening are not empty
I believe we are going to be able to get this done. Sooner or later,
we are going to get this right. The memories of the children demand it and
so do the American people. Thank you very much, everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Roxanna Green will join me next. She`s the mother of
Christina Taylor Green, who was the youngest victim in the Tucson massacre.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICIA MAISCH, HELPED STOP TUCSON MASSACRE: I could not stay still
any longer. That they need to be ashamed of themselves. I think ones who
voted no, except for Harry Reid, because that`s a procedural thing, I
understand, they have no souls. They have no compassion for the
experiences that have people with lived with gun violence or who have had a
child or a loved one murdered by a gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was Patricia Maisch, explaining her outrage in the
Senate visitors gallery today. Joining me for an exclusive interview,
someone else who was in the Senate visitors gallery today, Roxanna Green,
the mother of Christina Taylor Green, the youngest victim of the Tucson
shooting. Thank you very much for joining us tonight, Roxanna.
ROXANNA GREEN, DAUGHTER KILLED IN TUCSON MASSACRE: Thanks for having
O`DONNELL: What was it like to be in the gallery today when you saw
those votes go down?
GREEN: It was very, very disappointing. I was very disgusted by the
outcome, but not defeated. We`ll be back. It will happen.
O`DONNELL: And talk to us just on a personal level, how you get the
strength to mount a public crusade like this, which inevitably is a
constant reminder of the tragic way you lost your daughter.
GREEN: Well, I come from very strong people. My mom was a very
strong woman. My grandmother was a very strong woman. Christina would
have been a very successful and strong woman, had she not been robbed of
the opportunity. So I am doing this for my daughter. I`m doing it for all
of the children and innocent people out there. And I`m really confidant
that it`s going to happen. It didn`t happen today, but it will happen.
O`DONNELL: Roxanna, one of the things we keep hearing from the NRA
and opponents of any sane changes is that nothing that is being proposed
would have changed the outcome in any of these shootings. And yet we know
from the forensic evidence that your daughter was hit with a bullet some
time after the 12th bullet. And under what used to be law in this country,
magazines were limited to 10 bullets. That was something Dianne Feinstein
got passed a long time ago. And under that law, since the weaponry used
that day in Tucson was legally obtained, if that law was still in place,
presumably it would have been a 10 bullet magazine. The reloading would
have occurred after 10 and Patricia Maisch and others would have brought
that shooter down after 10 bullets.
GREEN: Yeah. You know, it`s hard to think about or talk about for me
because I realize that my daughter should -- would have been alive. I
think the 13th or 14th bullet -- she was running away from a madman. He
shot her in the back through the heart. So yes, it`s very upsetting, very
O`DONNELL: What is it like for you when you hear the NRA and these
senators, as President Obama said today, lying. He used the word "lie."
This was an anger level we don`t see in him. I can`t remember the last
time I heard him use the word "lie" about what his opponents were doing. I
don`t know if he`s ever done it before. But one of the lies they tell is
this lie about the magazines. When you know basically what the bullet
number was that hit your daughter, and they tell you that a 10 bullet limit
on magazines would make no difference, what is it like for you to listen to
GREEN: It`s very disappointing. It`s disgusting. I don`t agree. I
just have to move forward and march on and fight the good fight. And I
really -- I don`t have words for that. It`s just heartbreaking to have to
O`DONNELL: I want to read to you something that Gabby Giffords wrote
in what will be an op-ed piece in "The New York Times" tomorrow. She said,
"speaking is physically difficult for me, but my feelings are clear. I`m
furious. I will not rest until we have righted the wrong these senators
have done, and until we have changed our laws so we can look parents in the
face and say we are trying to keep your children safe. We can not allow
the status quo, desperately protected by the gun lobby so that they can
make more money by spreading fear and misinformation, to go on. I`m asking
every reasonable American to help me tell the truth about the cowardice
these senators demonstrated."
That`s from the congresswoman who your daughter went to see that day
in Tucson. And it seems that President Obama, his rage about this is
shared by Gabby Giffords and others.
GREEN: I totally agree with Miss Giffords. And I definitely agree
with President Obama and Vice President Biden and several other people out
there. I agree with them 100 percent. That`s all I can say. They said it
better than I can. But I agree with them 100 percent.
O`DONNELL: Roxanna green, thank you very much for joining us. We
really appreciate you sharing this experience with us.
GREEN: Thank you very much.
O`DONNELL: Up next, Boston is a city looking for answers and a lot of
questions. And Kevin Cullen of "The Boston Globe" is asking those
questions and giving some of those answers, one of the great reporters in
this town. So he`s going to be joining me next.
O`DONNELL: Tonight was the first Boston Bruins game since the
marathon bombing. And outside of the Garden, someone hung a Bruins` t-
shirt with the number eight on it and the name Martin Richard, the eight-
year-old hockey player and hockey fan from Dorchester killed in the
And inside the Garden tonight, the crowd joined in the singing of the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: It`s impossible for me to express my
sadness and my anger, frankly, over those terrible events. It`s just hard
to believe that a Patriots Day Holiday, which is normally such a time of
festivities, has turned into bloody mayhem. But I know how resilient
Bostonians are. And I think a lot of you do, despite the fact it took us
86 years to win a pendant.
I talked this week with friends and family up there, as recently as
this morning. And the granddaughter of a very, very close supporter and
friend of mine through all of my political career is fighting to keep both
of her legs. The -- you know, Boston is not going to be intimidated by
this, but we`re going to find out who did this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: I`m joined now by "Boston Globe" columnist Kevin Cullen.
Kevin, your column today talks about how small a town this can be when it
comes to stories like this. There`s secretary of state who knows people
who are involved in this, fighting these grievous injuries. Your column
points out that these firefighters, when they got here the other day to get
to the youngest victim whom we`ve all been talking about, Martin Richard,
they knew -- they knew exactly who this kid was.
KEVIN CULLEN, "BOSTON GLOBE": Yeah. And Larry, I`ve always said that
Boston is the smallest big city in America.
CULLEN: And I think that came through when I talked to, not that far
from here, guys from Engine 7 and ladder -- Tower Ladder 17. And -- but
what I think was so much -- so impressive about what they did is that they
worked on their friends and neighbors, but they worked on strangers with
the same intensity and the same care that they gave to people that they
came through the door and recognized. But I -- I mean, one of these
firefighters I talked to, he did three tours --- three combat tours in Iraq
and Afghanistan. And he was treated for PTSD.
And I asked him, do you think you need more treatment now? And he
looked off and he said, probably. I worry about our -- I mean, we`re in a
stage right now -- I mean, there is so much attention, Larry, today about
whether there`s an arrest, whether there`s a suspect, whether somebody`s in
custody. And I have to be honest, as I walked around the Back Bay today,
that just wasn`t even entering my equation. I was thinking about the
We need to bury our dead. We need to honor our dead. We need to take
care of our wounded. And we need to take care of our first responders,
because when I sat in that firehouse last night, I saw it in these faces.
And I saw it yesterday walking down Newbury Street. I saw a young woman, a
cop I know -- and I know her brother because I played hockey with him. And
she had been up for two days. And I saw it in her face, she saw things no
one should have to see.
And we need to take care of those people. And I`m -- I`m actually
very happy that the president is coming tomorrow, because I think we need
this time. I think we need sort of a healing moment. We`ll take care of
the -- I have no doubt they will catch whoever did this. I have no doubt.
And whether -- the obsession with it happening tonight to me misses the
point. We will get this person.
I think tomorrow`s more important. I think -- I`m glad the president
is coming here. I think the town needs it. And I`ve got to tell you, this
is my town and I`ve never been prouder of my town, Larry. Never prouder.
O`DONNELL: You know, I`m having the same reaction you are. I`m
following the investigation but it`s not what matters to me. My hat is at
Garvey (ph) Park, where I was last night.
CULLEN: You`re a Dorchester guy.
O`DONNELL: I learned to play baseball in the same fields that Martin
learned to play baseball, all the same places. And I was walking through
there yesterday, today. And that`s what I`m trying to explain this to
people outside of here, that we`re not obsessing on what`s the latest thing
that`s come out because we do have, number one, a confidence, as you say.
But number two, we are still in another process. This city is having a
O`DONNELL: We`re still at the wake. And we`re not fighting. We`re
not looking at -- we`re just dealing with this grief.
CULLEN: You know, Larry, I think you know him, he passed away last
year, a great guy name Bruce Bowen. He was the first African American
president of the Boston City Council. And I remember after he got made,
the first thing he did was punish a political rival. He moved his office.
The guy had like a nice view, he put him in the basement. So they had a
big thing for him up at the Parkman House, the mayor`s residence and all
So we went there back in like 1988. I go up to Bruce and I sling my
arm over him, and I said, Bruce, a brother finally gets the job and what do
you do, you act like an Irish Paul. And Bruce slid his arm over mine, and
he said, you know what, Kevin, in this town, we`re all Irish by osmosis.
And I think we are. And I think the Irishness of this town is taking
over in the sense that we`ll take care of that stuff down the road.
CULLEN: We have to take care of our dead.
CULLEN: We have to take care of our wounded. And we have to take
care of our first responders. That`s the stuff we`ve got to do now. Leave
that other stuff.
O`DONNELL: Your father was a firefighter. My father was a Boston cop
for eight years or so. And I think that`s where our confidence comes from
about what the process is going to be. But we have also lived in this
culture where we know the first thing we have to deal with is these
families and what they are going through.
O`DONNELL: We`ve got to go, Kevin. You knew it was going to come to
this, two Boston guys talking. we`re out of time.
CULLEN: We`ll continue this.
O`DONNELL: Kevin Cullen, you`ve got to come back. Kevin Cullen,
thank you very much. Chris Hayes is up next.
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