PoliticsNation, Thursday, April 18th, 2013
Read the transcript from the Thursday show
April 18, 2013
Guests: Kevin Cullen; Don Clark; James Cavanaugh; Clint Van Zandt; Joe Boissy; Mark Welch; Bernard Madore; Stephen Fiola
REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Thanks, Chris.
Tonight, manhunt. Breaking news in the Boston terror attacks. Here`s
what we know right now.
The FBI has released surveillance photos of two men they are calling
suspects in the bombings. Both are wearing backpacks. The FBI is asking
for the public`s help in tracking them down.
Suspect number one is seen wearing a black hat, suspect number two is
wearing a white hat. The FBI says he is the one seen on video leaving a
bag at the site of the second explosion. The FBI warned that these
suspects are extremely dangerous individuals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD DESLAURIERS, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: We consider them to
be armed and extremely dangerous. No one should approach them. No one
should attempt to apprehend except law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: These suspects are at large. They dangerous but the FBI
says the public can help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESLAURIERS: Somebody out there knows these individuals as friends,
neighbors, co-workers or family members of the suspects. Though it may be
difficult, the nation is counting those with information to come forward
and provide it to us. No bit of information, no matter how small or
seemingly inconsequential is too small for us to see each piece moves us
forward to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: These two suspects are out there. The hunt is now on to
find them and bring them to justice.
Joining me now live from Boston is Michael Isikoff, national
investigative correspondent for NBC news.
Thank you for joining me, Michael,
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, NBC NEWS NATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Good
to be with you.
SHARPTON: Now, you heard the FBI press conference. What is your
reaction? What did we learn and what do you take away from it?
ISIKOFF: Well, we learned a lot and it was a pretty dramatic press
conference. First and foremost, we have the pictures. We have video. The
public can watch it on their own. These people have been clearly
identified as suspects by the FBI. We did not know before this press
conference how the FBI was going to categorize -- characterize these
people, whether they were just persons of interests, potential witnesses.
But Mr. Deslauriers, the FBI special agent in charge clearly said suspects,
clearly said armed and dangerous.
We reported last night the photos of the individual with the white cap
had been distributed to other law enforcement agencies.
ISIKOFF: The purpose was to see if they had anything on this guy, if
they had any information about who he is. The fact that they went public
today, that they showed it to the public, is an indication that they most
likely did not because we still do not have an identity of who these people
are and I think that`s a very big -- very big problem at this point for the
bureau although they are going to enlist and recruit the FBI, recruit the
public in trying to find these people.
The fact is that the suspects know that the FBI and the public are
looking for them and that gives them an opportunity to change their
appearance, to stay out of the public eye so how long a search for these
two suspects is going to take is an open question at this point.
SHARPTON: Now, let me bring in Don Clark. He is a former special
agent in charge of the FBI field office in Houston. He managed the
investigation of 1993 bombing of the World Trade center.
Don, what is your reaction to what we heard at the press conference?
I think he`s --
DON CLARK, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Can you hear me?
SHARPTON: Yes, I can hear you now. Go ahead.
CLARK: OK. You know, from what I had an opportunity to hear here is
that they have been very good electronically with being able to get
photographs of these people and identify who they are and what they have
been doing. And now, what they`ve really got to do is an investigation to
really try to see exactly who these people are and work with everybody that
they can and all of the other law enforcement entities to see who are these
people and where did they come from and work through that plane.
SHARPTON: Now Michael, it was interesting to me when I heard how the
agent -- special agent in charge described how they identified the suspect.
Let me play for you how they identified the first one and then the second
one and your reaction to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESLAURIERS: Within the last day or so through that careful process,
we initially developed a single person of interest, not knowing that the
individual is acting alone or in concert with others. We obviously worked
with extreme purpose to make that determination. The FBI developed a
second suspect. Today we are listing the public`s help to identify the two
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: So Michael, basically he walked us through the steps that
once they identified the first person of interest, then that led them to
ISIKOFF: Right. And the video does, as Mister Deslauriers said,
appear to show them working and being associated, working in tandem, at
least that`s the way the FBI used it. But, it does explain why we got
these repeated requests over the last few days which we`ve reported on to
the public to turn over cell phone videos, turn over whatever photos they
had, even to the point where the other day they were stopping travelers at
Logan airport asking them for cell phone videos, any cell phone videos they
had before they left the city.
What we have been told is that it was that video camera from the Lord
& Taylor department store on the second floor that was particularly
instrumental in helping to identify these individuals. But clearly they
are still looking for more. Now that people know who the FBI is looking
for, I think everybody who hasn`t already turned over their cell phone
videos to the FBI are going to be looking at them tonight and trying to see
whether they`ve got these guys on their own cell phone videos that they
might have taken that day.
SHARPTON: Now Don, Michael tell us that the second floor video camera
in the Lord & Taylor department store was vital. Give us an example, what
does the FBI? What do they go through? Phone logs? The tower for cell
phones? I mean, what went on in the last 48 hours?
CLARK: Well, the FBI has to go through everything. And first thing
they got to do is start at the scene, you know. And you start from the
scene and you start developing and talking to individuals that were there
doing a lot of interviews and getting as much information as you can to
really find out who, what, and where these people came from or where they
might be and who they might be. So you really do have to do a defined
investigation and gather information.
The key thing is being able to identify some sources that you can
gather information from. And we have a lot of them now. Electronically
has helped law enforcement significantly in the last few years because
almost every building in an industrial area will have cameras and so forth
and like. So, there`s no doubt in my mind that the law enforcement, when
they went to that scene, the first thing, not the people on the street but
the people on the stores, homes or whatever, because everybody`s got a
SHARPTON: Let me ask you Michael, the FBI clearly has to calculate
that both of these gentlemen are at large and now know, unless they are in
some isolated place and not watching a television, but they know that they
have been identified. What do they calculate is the possible range of
reactions that they may make and how will that help them in their pursuit?
ISIKOFF: Well, look, it`s been four days or three days since the
bombing and these guys have had an opportunity to flee the city, flee the
region. So, this is a clear end and possibly the country. We don`t know.
This is likely to be a nationwide search, an international search for these
guys. And you know, the fact that it`s taken this long from Monday to
Thursday to identify them has given them a head start.
Now, that doesn`t mean that there isn`t a lot of evidence that the FBI
is going to be able to piece together to try to track them down. I will
give one example that we are reporting on tonight.
The FBI has been going out to stores in the area that sell the kinds
of parts that were -- bomb parts found in the debris on the scene, that
Tenergy battery pack, the pressure cooker, and they are trying to identify
who bought those parts. Most likely, now that they have got the video of
the person -- of one of the two suspects who they believe bought those
parts, they can show that -- show those photos to the stores that sell them
and it`s very likely that at some point they will get a match and they will
be able to match up the purchaser with and get a name, you know, did they
pay with a credit card, was there surveillance photos at the site where
these much purchased at? All right, that could help the FBI identify these
people. But I think at this point, the fact that they have had this four-
day head start does make this a potentially international several at this
SHARPTON: Let`s bring in James Cavanaugh, former ATF special agent
who led the investigations into the Atlanta Olympic bombings.
James, you have dealt with these kind of cases. You heard Michael
Isikoff saying they have a four-day jump on us. What would you be
concerned about tonight if you were working this case and what would make
you feel more emboldened if you worked this case?
JAMES CAVANAUGH, FORMER ATF SPECIAL AGENT: Well, great question,
Reverend Al. Mike`s right. I mean, you can count on the bombers watching
the news conference. They are seeing this. And wherever they are, they
are making a decision to fight or flight, barricade, or try to get
somewhere else to hide.
Look what`s happened here. The second part of your question, how did
this transpire? The white hat, Mr. White hat --
SHARPTON: All right.
CAVANAUGH: He`s the guy on the Lord & Taylor video probably placing
that bomb that`s in the backpack where you see it covered with the white
right next to the trash bag that you`ve seen on "Nightly News" if you seen
Pete William`s report. So white hat is probably seen and is seen because
the FBI agent in charge said we had him on, white hat on the video placing
the device. So, so he is placing the device. They don`t have blue hat
placing the device. So what they do --
SHARPTON: But blue hat has a nap sack as well?
CAVANAUGH: Blue hat has a nap sack. So, what they do is they walk
back their video to as soon as they can and find anybody that white hat`s
talking to or interacting with.
CAVANAUGH: Every day at the bomb scene when we run these every day,
at the bomb scene and command post, we have the bomb team at the scene come
in and brief all the commanders and detectives and agents about what they
found at the scene. So, I guarantee you that by Tuesday night, they are
coming back to the commander and they are saying we`re finding remnants of
a black backpack. It`s got this white markings on it. They are piecing it
together. Then, they are sharing that with everybody that is run the video
surveillance and they are going back and they are finding out that white
hat is talking to blue hat and he has a backpack that is similar to what is
being picked up with bomb debris. That is why they are telling me they
don`t have one guy on it, but we meticulously pieced it together.
Remember, there`s nothing else on the video. You can`t see the
pressure cooker. The only thing you can see is the backpack. So that`s
likely, likely how they pieced that together and they know how they are
acting in concert.
SHARPTON: So, if you have white hat where you actually see him
putting the backpack down, black hat, whether it is blue or black, let`s
call it dark hat, we don`t actually see him doing that but we see them kind
of working together.
CAVANAUGH: Working together and from the blast scene at the finish
line where all the flags were, the agents pick up and put back together
painstakingly put back together the remnants. I guarantee they can put
back that backpack enough to identify what it looks like. And they have
blown those videos up and photographed and they are going, hey, this looks
just like that backpack.
And so that`s how they are putting this together and they believe
these guys are acting in concert. They probably have them on somebody`s
iPhone or digital speaking somewhere on the sidewalk. And so, that`s
probably -- we don`t know for sure but that`s likely how they did it.
SHARPTON: What preparations do they make before they make an
announcement and go public with the photos in hopes that there would be
some move that were move these guys into their hands, really?
CAVANAUGH: Yes. There`s going to be false positives, Reverend.
There is going to be people saying this is my old brother-in-law and he`s
no good and this is somebody else and there is going to be a lot of that.
There`s going to be a lot false starts on it. They are going to have to do
Look, if you are a person on that video and you are not a bomber, you
should be calling the FBI and saying, hey, I`m just a witness. You have
the wrong guy. I wouldn`t count on that happening. But, if that was the
case, then, you should be calling yourself and you would be a witness.
So, there`s going to be false positives but of all the people that get
identified, one of those people is going to be -- two of those people is
going to be white hat and dark hat. And then, it`s going to transpire.
The local police will get involved, your state troopers, the police around
the world, intelligence agencies.
SHARPTON: And it goes on and on.
Don Clark, you were head of field operations, FBI. Tonight, what are
they bracing for? I`m sure they are banking many calls as James says.
What are they banking on? What is the call you would be hoping to get?
CLARK: Well, the call that you would be hoping to get is that some
good, faithful law enforcement agent happened to pick up a person with this
description, whether it`s in a car chase or whether it is somebody running
a stop sign or whatever the case may be. That would be the optimum,
obviously, to have something of that nature.
But, you know, that`s pie in the sky, if you will. I mean, what the
law enforcement has to do is to really continue with their plan. And you
know, we are accustom to wanting things to be done rapidly. But in this
type of situation and many, many more that you really have to take the
steps as they can be. And as the gentleman said before, number one, take a
look at these people, look at the identifications, know what they are about
and do as much as you can to find out about those individuals and that can
maybe tie you into who they are, where they are, and where they may be --
where they came from and where they may be going.
SHARPTON: Michael Isikoff, Don Clark, and James Cavanaugh, thank you
for your time tonight.
ISIKOFF: Thanks, Reverend.
CLARK: You bet.
SHARPTON: Ahead, much more on this extraordinary night. The search
is on for two suspects in the Boston bombing.
The FBI releasing video of two suspects. What happens next? Why
could the suspects be tonight? We will talk to an FBI special agent and an
Stay with us.
SHARPTON: A national several is under way for two men who the FBI
says are suspects in the Boston bombings. That`s next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESLAURIERS: We consider them to be armed and extremely dangerous.
No one should approach them. No one should attempt to apprehend them
except law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: The FBI just moments ago warning that the two suspects they
are looking for could and should be considered armed and dangerous. These
photos and video are the biggest clues so far that have been made public.
These are the images that could bring the bombers to justice.
Joining me now is former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt.
Thank you for being here, Clint.
Let me ask you from what you`ve seen, what can you tell us? Is there
anything in their dress, their appearance, their hats, is there anything at
all that you can tell us from what you`ve seen as a profiler?
CLINT VAN ZANDT, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, you know, we have got to
start at day one, Al, and we have got to start, what was the target. You
know, this wasn`t a federal building. It wasn`t a gay bar. It wasn`t a
Martin Luther King march. It was America. It was the average black,
white, Asian, international -- the target was America. So you have to say,
who would be targeting that type of event? And that`s one of the things
the profilers and the FBI will look at.
You know, James Cavanaugh talks very articulately about the two
individuals we are looking at. We see, at least, one of them Al, talking
on the cell phone. The question is, is he talking to someone else? If so,
the FBI and other agencies will zero in on that person, zero in on that
phone and have an idea who he was talking to at that time.
SHARPTON: Or he could just be acting like he`s talking on the phone.
VAN ZANDT: Could be. Could be. But if he used that phone any time
in that photographic slot we have, we can get in on that phone and find out
perhaps who he`s talking to. What`s more important, too, is somebody
suggested Al, that we were two, three days behind. We are really not.
Because I would suggest that the authorities have had the pictures for at
least a day and probably were trying to developed the person themselves
before they went public. That`s just the way we do things. But realize,
they will take those pictures. They will match them up against
surveillance cameras at bus stations, airports, cab stands, anything else
to know how those guys got in and how those guys got out of the city and
they have a lot more than we do.
SHARPTON: Clint, we are showing a picture, that`s him, of what
appears to be him on the cell phone. Whether he`s talking to someone or
not, we don`t know. But in the circle you can see him talking or at least
having the cell phone to his ear. What does that tell us, if anything,
VAN ZANDT: Well, if in fact he`s on the phone, there`s a high
likelihood he is talking to someone who may, who may have knowledge of what
they are doing. It depends. Now we, know it`s not our proverbial lone
Wolf. But, as you and I have talked the last couple of days, Al, we said
it would be easy for one, easier for two. So, we have got two. We
understand how they could backpack the 20-pound devices in and out again.
Now, if we can place them talking to somebody else and realize, now the
authorities have had at least a day to try to isolate that phone call.
We want to know everything about these guys. In fact, we`d like to
have them in cuffs. But short of that, by the time they went -- the FBI
went public with those pictures today, they may know a lot about them, how
they traveled, who they are talking to, and that net, that iron net is
closing around these two guys faster than a school of fish out in the
SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you this, Clint. The fact that he could
possibly have been talking on the phone to someone else and you say who may
or may not have been involved, is it possible there could be a third party?
VAN ZANDT: Easily. Easily. At least he is talking -- best case
scenario is he is talking to somebody because we can find that somebody.
All right? If he`s got the phone up and he`s faking it, we lose it. But
if he was talking to anybody, his mom, his sister, his next door neighbor,
his girlfriend, the FBI and other agencies are going to have this guy based
upon that phone call.
SHARPTON: Well, but right at the press conference a few minutes ago,
the FBI said they are only looking for these two guys. That does not
necessarily mean that is all they are looking for but that`s what they are
VAN ZANDT: They are looking for anyone that can lead them to these
guys. That`s why, you and I and 310 million American are sitting here
looking at these pictures and that`s why they are being shown all over the
world because everybody who works at TSA at the airport who let people go
through the last two or three days is going to look at those pictures and
say, I saw those two guys and they were on a flight to Atlanta, Memphis, or
wherever it may be. That`s what we need, Al. We need the next step and
the next step after that. Where were they before the bombing? Where did
they go afterwards? But Al, a picture is worth a million words right now.
SHARPTON: Well, since you brought that up, let me bring in Joe Boissy
from 3VR, a video intelligence company that specializes in facial
Joe, how will these photos help capture these guys?
JOE BOISSY, 3VR: Well, when you have the photos, Al, these photos
have some biometric signature even though they are compressed and they are
not so much details like you would have on a typical pointed shoot camera,
you still have facial images, facial biometric physics like for example,
the difference between of the distance between the eyes, the nose shape, et
cetera. These are characteristics for each human being like a finger
print, if you like.
Now, facial recognition systems can help you determine and nail down
very quickly in to the slew, that pole number of images that you can get,
the videos, et cetera. And the FBI has been calling everyone who was in
the vicinity of Boston and the marathon area to send their video. The idea
is that you can ingest all that video and it gives you, if you like, a
catalog of all of the faces that were there. And then within the press of
a button within a video intelligence system, you can immediately zoom in on
the faces that resembling the closest that look like these individuals.
And from there, you can identify and triangulate the places that they are,
what they did, were they with other people, et cetera. And therefore, you
can even determine, in fact, the pathway that they took. Because many
people are sending videos across the places and then you can get well,
where they were before, an hour before, an hour after and all of that
information that is crucial to the investigation.
SHARPTON: Clint, is that one of the reasons why the FBI keeps
requesting and asking of people, whatever photos, whatever videos they
have, that if there`s anything that they have at all that is helpful?
VAN ZANDT: Exactly. Because with this video you can ingest it and
they could catalog of that thing.
SHARPTON: Now Clint, is there a way that the photos, even without
identifying who they are, could highlight and set off an alert if in fact
we get -- we can breakdown exactly these photos to their facial -- their
true facial identity which you do?
VAN ZANDT: Well, notwithstanding the other pictures that we`re going
to have of these two guys coming and going, al, realize for the last dozen
years or so, every time as a foreign national you come into the United
States, you take two pictures and fingerprints.
Al, there are 80 million photographs that the U.S. government has of
international travels who -- travelers who come in and out. There will be
every effort in the world being made to compare these two pictures with the
photographs of these 80 million different travelers to see if this is an
international person who may have left the country.
SHARPTON: Because we don`t know looking at the photos what their
ethnic or nationality could be?
VAN ZANDT: Not at all.
SHARPTON: All right.
VAN ZANDT: Not at all. And you know Al, that`s a good point, too.
The FBI was very careful not to suggest other than males, not to suggest
any ethnicity or nationality. Number one, it would be wrong to do it
unless we knew. Number two, you don`t want to put the idea in the public,
well, he looks like a Pakistani or he looks like a typical white guy. We
don`t want to do that. We want everybody to look at that and say, here`s
just two adult males. Do you know them? No other information to confuse
SHARPTON: All right, Clint, hold on a minute. Let me take a break.
We will be right back.
SHARPTON: Back with me now is former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt.
Clint, what`s going on in the minds of these two guys right now?
You`re a profiler. I mean, are they feeling the pressure? Wherever they
are, what is going on in their minds?
VAN ZANDT: Realize, Al, this is was a carefully planned event. They
built the devices. They knew where they were going to put them, they knew
how they were going to carry them, come in, come out again. But they
never, ever planned on this level of technology. They couldn`t understand.
Nobody can, this level of technology that can be employed to identify two
people out of a million and say, these are the two we`re looking for.
So they heard yesterday, Al, that there were pictures out but "New
York Post" or some other newspapers ran pictures that may not have been
these guys, may have been somebody else. So then you`ve got this
ambivalence. OK, they`ve got pictures of us but the pictures we`re seeing
are the wrong guys. So we can relax. We`ve got the right guys.
SHARPTON: Let me hold you right there because I want to show you the
sound bite of how that was dressed today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESLAURIERS: For clarity, these images should be the only ones, and I
emphasize the only ones that the public should view to assist us. Other
photos should not be deemed critical and they are necessarily divert the
public in the wrong direction and create undo work for vital law
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: So these are the only photos -- any other photos only make
it more difficult and not credible. Now, so if you`re one of the two guys,
you are the profiler, I want you to help walk you through this. And the
wrong photos were on the newspapers, you`re relieved this one. But now,
all of a sudden the correct photos are out. Now what am I thinking?
VAN ZANDT: Now, if I know the real photos are out, I`ve got to make a
decision and all of a sudden all my careful planning has come crashing down
on top of me because there is basically my mug shot on international
television. So now they`ve got to make a decision. If they hunker down in
place in the Boston area some place, do they stay in place and wait for the
Boston PD to kick in the door and take them away or do they run, draw
attention to themselves? If they haven`t got out by town by now, it`s too
late for public transportation. The only way they can do it is by private
vehicle. If they don`t have their own car, they have got to rent a car.
You are not going to rent a car because we got you r picture at all the
rental car agencies.
If these guys are hunkered in place right now, they are in real
trouble because they know they have nowhere to run to and pretty soon
nowhere to hide. Tremendous sense of ambivalence. They may start to argue
between themselves. One says stay, one says let`s get out of here. If
there`s anybody else involved, they are going to call them to look for
suggestions, to look for help. The FBI is going to be looking for those
calls to identify who else may have provided inspiration or support. We
have got them in a good place right now, Al. No matter what they do, they
will contribute to the investigation that will lead to their arrest and
SHARPTON: And they may not even be together.
VAN ZANDT: Might not even be together. Those are all the things that
you have to look at. They could have separated right at that point and
left again. It depends as careful as their planning was before, was their
planning -- does the planning have the same level of carefulness
Many times we find guys -- bad guys leak this, bombers, killers, they
put all of their money up front in what they are doing but their after-
action plans leave a lot to be desired. And that`s what we`re hoping and
that`s what the FBI is betting on. They either have a bad escape plan or
now we have totally confronted their escape plans and we`re going to get on
the trail of one if not both of these guys.
SHARPTON: Clint Van Zandt, thanks very much for your time tonight.
Much more breaking news tonight.
The FBI releasing pictures and videos of suspects in the Boston
SHARPTON: Right now the entire city of Boston is looking at these
photos and video. The suspects of the marathon bombings. The great people
of that city are checking their phones, checking their e-mail, wondering
who these guys are and when they will be caught.
Joining me now is "Boston Globe" columnist, Kevin Cullen.
Kevin, thank you for being here tonight.
KEVIN CULLEN, COLUMNIST, BOSTON GLOBE: Hi, Al.
SHARPTON: What is your reaction to the video released of the
CULLEN: Well, Al, being the resourceful reporter that I am, if you
look over my shoulder there is a bar called the oak room. It`s one of the
finest rooms in Boston. I very seldom drink there because the martinis are
18 bucks. But I said, I have to watched this. So, I went across the
street and I watched it with a bunch of just ordinary Bostonians. And we
all watched it. I`ve got to tell you the reaction was incredibly
restrained. Everybody was staring at it and I know I was and said, do I
know these dudes? And I`ve never seen them before.
SHARPTON: So, wait a minute. Give me the reaction in the bar was
what? When you say restrained, explain to me the reaction.
CULLEN: The restrain in the sense that nobody -- there were curses,
there were no get these you know whats. There were just people were
looking at them. Do I know them? There was an older African-American
woman named Celes, next to me. She turned to me and she said, I wonder
what their mothers and their fathers think.
You know, I was talking to our mutual buddy Lawrence O`Donnell last
CULLEN: And we talked about, you know, the emphasis on the suspects.
I got to tell you Al, everybody that I know in this town knew this day
would come. Now, that`s just a release. We know they are going to be
caught. We know they are going -- it may not be these guys. I`m just
saying, someone is going to be caught. Someone is going to appear in
court. But we need to bury our dead, we need heal our wounded and we need
to take care of our first responders. And I got to tell you. I think
that`s what people in Boston, that`s where their priorities are.
This is number four priority and we know it`s going to get -- somebody
is going to take care of the business. That`s just the way it is. But
right now everybody is looking at these guys saying, do I know them? Does
somebody I know know them? And, you know, another woman -- I was talking
to another woman and she was from Ponce from Puerto Rico, which is kind of
the country part of Puerto Rico, but she lives here in the south edge. She
told me, you know, their families will give them up, which I thought was an
interesting thing to say. Because the way she said it, she goes my family
would give me up. So, yes, their images are out there. I talked to a
state copy know like 20 minutes before I came over here.
CULLEN: And he said that, you know, if they are still around here,
they are dumber than we thought. But he was pretty confident that with
those images out there and I think one of your previous guests said, there
are six million sets of eyes in this country looking for these guys, let
alone people all over the world. They will find these guys. No doubt.
SHARPTON: You`re one of the best reporters and columnists up that
CULLEN: Come on, Al. Come on, Al.
SHARPTON: You are. And what are your sources in law enforcement
telling you? Are they confident? What are they saying?
CULLEN: Well, like I said, they released the pictures, I talked to a
state police officer who I know is involved in the investigation on a wider
scale. He is part of a broader task force to find these guys. He was very
confident. I mean, he said the images are very clear. They are not
blurry. If you know these guys and you see these pictures, you are going
to know them. So somebody is going to call on these guys. And like I
said, the question is, is it a rival? Is it a friend? Is it a relative?
Somebody is going to recognize these guys.
SHARPTON: You said that the priority in Boston is burying our dead,
healing the first responders and that`s the way our Bostonians are and
confident that these guys will be caught. That`s number four. Tell us
about how the healing is beginning and the memorial service today, I`m
sure, was part of that.
CULLEN: I think it helped. I think the president coming here helped.
It`s really the first time -- and you would appreciate this, al. You are a
Rev. It`s the first time we had any faith-based kind of acknowledgement of
what happened on Monday, and that is important. Because you know, in this
town, you know, faith means a lot. Whether you`re talking about me and,
you know, 60 percent of the rest of the people around here who are catholic
or whether you`re talking to some of our great African-American minister`s
right down the street in the south end. This is important.
SHARPTON: That`s right.
CULLEN: And it was important that the president came here and it`s
important to recognize that part of the equation and we needed it and there
will be more of that. And then, you know, there`s a mix of faith-based and
secular remembrances and that`s part of the process. And I think people
here are prepared for it.
And I tell you every day, Al, it strikes me that people -- that the
sadness is there but every day we get a little more resolved about where we
need to go with this. But we are very focused, very locked in, and we know
what we have to do and we have total confidence in law enforcement. They
will find these people and deal with them in a court of law. No street
justice here. We don`t want that.
SHARPTON: Right. The "Boston Globe`s" Kevin Cullen. Thank you for
your time this evening, Kevin.
CULLEN: Thanks, Al.
SHARPTON: More on the manhunt live from Boston. Stay with us.
SHARPTON: Still ahead, the hero soldiers who helped saved lives of
victims at the Boston marathon. I will talk to them, next.
SHARPTON: Today, the president thanked the volunteers who risked
their own lives to save others. Volunteers like the soldiers who ran
straight into the blast, ignoring their own safety to rescue other people.
Before sunrise Monday morning, first lieutenant Stephen Fiola and a
crew of 15 of his fellow Massachusetts National Guard soldiers set out to
walk the 26.2 miles of the Boston marathon course together, to honor their
fallen comrades, decked out in fatigues, each carrying 40 pounds of gear on
their backs, the soldiers set out on their eight-hour march to the finish
But just moments after reaching the end of the race, the blast went
off. Instead of running away, lieutenant Fiola and fellow soldiers ran
into the chaos, pulling down fences, clearing debris, and saving victims`
lives. It speaks of heroism like these in the darkest of moments that have
inspired people from around the world.
Joining me now are those heroes. First lieutenant Stephen Fiola,
first sergeant Bernard Madore and staff sergeant Mark Welch.
Thank you very much for coming on the show tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My pleasure.
SHARPTON: Lieutenant Fiola, we want to get your story but I want to
know your reaction first to the video of suspects being released tonight.
FIRST LIEUTENANT STEPHEN FIOLA, MASSACHUSETTS NATIONAL GUARD:
Absolutely, sir. Our reaction is probably about the same as everyone else
in the court, which is there`s a little bit of excitement and almost a bit
of comfort the fact that the technology is working so fantastic for us now
that we noted the federal bureau of investigation has confidence that these
two suspects are the ones that we need to find. It allows us to plaster
their faces all over the internet, social media, and do everything we can
to try to find them.
SHARPTON: Now, let`s go back to this day on Monday at the marathon.
What happened when the blast went off?
FIOLA: Well, just a couple minutes before, one of our soldiers just
completed the running of the full 26.2 miles. Myself, first sergeant
Madore and sergeant Welch were over by the finish line when the first blast
went off and it`s the point where all thought gets put aside and our
reaction takes over.
SHARPTON: So you hear the blast and the reaction takes over and what
does the reaction cause you to do? You go actually to where you see there
were people harmed? Tell me, walk me through what happened.
FIOLA: When the blast went off for a brief fraction of a second, it
was, you know, that bit of a shock trying to figure out what was going on.
Where we were, we were right by the finish line. So when we turned to see
the blast, literally just a fraction of a second after it happened, what we
did at that moment was I turned to soldiers that were already by the finish
line. And we told them to make sure that they stayed there and did not
At that time, myself, first sergeant Madore and sergeant Welch ran
towards the scene of what was ultimately site number one. Right across the
bleachers and just before the media bridge.
SHARPTON: Go ahead and finish.
FIOLA: Yes, sir. At that time, sergeant Welch moved towards the
bleachers and started helping people in the bleachers and then myself and
first sergeant Madore went to the barricade and started tearing down with
other police officers and first responders that tearing down that that
SHARPTON: Staff sergeant Welch, when you went to the bleachers, what
did you see and what were you doing?
STAFF SERGEANT MARK WELCH, MASSACHUSETTS NATIONAL GUARD: It was
complete chaos. I mean, people didn`t know where to go. I mean, there was
only one way into that place and people were going the wrong way. So I
looked at lieutenant Fiola and I told I was going to stay there. And that
was the order that I was given. So, I stayed there and I funneled
everybody towards the exit where all our others soldiers were standing by.
And once I noticed that all, it was like most of which of that part are 90
percent clear, I then jumped over the wall and headed over and started
tearing down the rest of the fence.
SHARPTON: First sergeant Madore, did it ever occur to you as you were
moving around that it was possible that another bomb could go off?
FIRST SERGEANT BERNARD MADORE, MASSACHUSETTS NATIONAL GUARD: Yes,
sir. As we were going in, we heard the second explosion go off. We saw
that down the street, I immediately looked up and tried to assess the
situation but then you have to get those people already injured out of the
area so they don`t get injured anymore. So, we just check upon them and
the rest of us we tried to get them out.
SHARPTON: So you never worried about a third or fourth bomb going.
You were focused on --
MODORE: Yes, sir. Pretty much focused. Worried about it but there`s
no time to think in that situation.
SHARPTON: Is that how you`re trained?
MADORE: Yes, sir. I know that in the background, soldiers were
escorting out of the area back there.
SHARPTON: Well, thank you so much. First lieutenant Steven Fiola,
first sergeant Bernard Madore and staff sergeant Mark Welch, thank you for
your courage and thank you all for coming on the show tonight.
FIOLA: Thank you.
MADORE: Thanks you, sir.
WELCH: Thank you, sir.
SHARPTON: The president`s uplifting message on how this tragedy
brought out the best in humanity. That`s next.
SHARPTON: Today`s announcement of two suspects in the bombings came
after a powerful prayer service there in Boston. President Obama mourned
the victims, praised the heroes and promised the world that Boston will
rise and run again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our prayers are with
the injured. So many wounded. Some gravely. From their beds, some are
surely watching us gather here today and if you are, know this, as you
begin this long journey of recovery, your city is with you, your
commonwealth is with you. Your country is with you. We will all be with
you as you learn to stand, and walk, and yes, run again. Of that, I have
no doubt you will run again. You will run again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: The test of life comes by not having crisis and not having
trials but how you respond to them. Boston is a great city and how it will
respond and how it will come back from this crisis will show the world that
they are even greater than we thought.
We will watch Boston rise again.
Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "Hardball" starts right now.
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