All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, April 19th, 2013
Read the transcript from the Friday show
ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
April 19, 2013
Guests: Seth Mnookin, Farah Stockman, Rebecca Kreiger, Andrenae
CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Thank you, Chris. Good evening, from New York.
After a day under lockdown, in the city of Boston, the last hour has
brought rapid development in the manhunt for the remaining Boston marathon
suspect. This was the scene from Watertown, Massachusetts just before 7:00
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HAYES: A hail of gunfire just one hour ago in Watertown,
Massachusetts, shortly after police announced the suspension of the stay
inside order. You are now looking at a live shot from Watertown. Where
gunfire broke out about an hour ago prompting that massive police response.
Let`s go to NBC news national correspondent Erica Hill in Watertown
Erica, what is the latest there?
ERICA HILL, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris.
What we can tell you is there has been an increased police presence in
the last hour. We have seen a number of units in and out. We saw a bus
load of police officers leaving the scene. They were being brought out.
Remember the local transit busses have been used all day to bring police
officers in and out. So, they were just leaving.
And we are learning, NBC News learning from a senior police department
official, there`s been so much talk about this person in a body in a boat
seen in aerial photographs. A senior official department official telling
NBC News, yes, we think so -- meaning that it`s him. Apparently, a woman
called in a report of blood in a backyard leading to a boat. Boston police
department saying he`s hit, may have been there all day.
So, we are seeing word there may be thermal imaging involved. This is
what NBC News is learning from a senior police department official. So,
that is why there is such a focus in this area.
The Boston Police Department sending out tweets within the last hour,
advising people in the Franklin Street area of Watertown, which is just
about a mile, from where we are to stay inside, to go back inside their
homes. This, of course, not long after Governor Patrick had actually
lifted that request to stay in place. They are told to stay back inside.
As you can see, I don`t have access to some of the images that you do
but I know you can see this intense police presence as we understand it,
basically every division of the Massachusetts State Police is there sot
includes the bomb squad, ballistics and stop which is basically the highest
level of their SWAT team.
We`re told they are all on-site. There are reports of different shots
fired. So, it is obviously developing situation, one we are monitoring
HAYES: Thank you, Erica.
So, right now, to the best of our knowledge, police are reporting that
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who is, of course, suspect number two, as identified
yesterday, by the FBI and that press conference, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19-
year-old American citizen is possibly, it appears, pinned down in a boat in
a backyard in Watertown, Massachusetts, which is just west of Cambridge.
Right now, we have eyewitness Seth Mnookin, who joins us by phone. He
is an MIT professor. He has been in the area during this crazily intense
last 30 hours.
Seth, what have you been hearing -- what are you hearing right now?
SETH MNOOKIN, EYEWITNESS (via telephone): Right now, pretty much the
same thing you are. What is so incredible is that for most of the day,
much of Boston felt like a ghost town. I was in New York City on 9/11 and
lived in Lower Manhattan. That`s the only thing that I can compare what
was going on here today to, the streets were almost entirely deserted.
Major, major thoroughfares like Commonwealth Avenue and Beacon Street
essentially had no one on them.
Just before 7:00, the shelter in place order was lifted. And so,
almost immediately, you started to see busses and subway cars come out.
More people were on the streets. More people driving around. At that
point, I actually went out and was intending to go back to the scene of
last night`s scenes in Watertown, because when I went it cover it, my car
ended up inside the perimeter. I was unable to get it out.
So, I figure once they lifted the shelter in place order, I could get
it. No sooner had I stepped out of my house than just a scream of police
cars and ambulances headed toward Watertown. And very quickly I started to
get reports of a suspect to appear to be at that point underneath a boat.
It looks like that it still possibly where he is.
HAYES: Seth, can you tell us the distance of where last night`s
shootout happened and where we think the suspect is currently pinned down
with the boat in the backyard? Are those close to each other?
MNOOKIN: Yes, they are very close. One of the things that`s a little
bit confusing about this area is that unlike Manhattan, Boston is not on a
grid. In fact, it`s almost aggressively not on a grid. And this
residential area of Watertown that is behind this commercial shopping
stretch that has these two very big malls, it is one of these sort of
warrens of very small streets, many of which turn at angles on themselves.
So the distance it might take to walk it and the distance the crow
flies, might sometimes have a variation of twice as much. This is all
essentially within a square mile. And when I say this all, I mean the
staging area that the police set up today, the area where the gun fight was
last night, the area where they thought they had the suspect pinned down
last night and then this area today. So, it`s something that you could
easy walk in 10 or 15 minutes.
HAYES: We learned today from the law enforcement press conference
around 5:00 that suspect number two, when who has been identified as
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev escaped last night`s shootout. His older brother
Tamerlan Tsarnaev died. That`s confirmed as well.
And we were told today at the press conference, I think much to
people`s astonishment that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev had escaped on foot. And I
think there was some sentiment for folks when the press conference was
announced that police were letting people back outside their house, how
could he possibly escape the scene on foot and be far away, and now if that
is the case and he is in the boat and just within -- as you say, Seth --
just a square mile away, that it makes sense he found somewhere to hide in
MNOOKIN: Yes. A couple of interesting things should be pointed out.
One, first of all, it is really remarkable that he was not discovered last
night. Because the police presence that was on the ground in this very
concentrated area was unlike anything I had ever seen. There were
literally hundreds of officers and equipped in tactical outfits and flak
jackets and armed with assault rifles going through the neighborhood.
There were at least a half dozen different agencies responding, including
state police and the FBI. I had never seen a police presence like this.
And that includes things like the Beltway sniper that I also covered.
So, on the one hand, it really is stunning. On the other hand, when
they were doing this door to door search, they weren`t actually going into
people`s houses. What they were doing was looking around the perimeter and
going to people`s doors and knocking on their doors and asking if they had
seen anything that was suspicious or if anyone approached their house.
So, when you look at it in that perspective and you remember that this
was all happening at 2:00 and 3:00 and 4:00 in the morning. So, it`s the
dead of the night. And there was an incredible amount of concern at the
time, that this suspect still had explosives either on him, attached to his
body, or some sort of grenade type objects.
Then it starts to be a little bit clearer how a single suspect on foot
might have been able to evade capture. Especially if, you know, once the
sun came up, he wasn`t moving and it looks like that might be what actually
HAYES: Seth Mnookin, thank you very much. We`re going to check in
with you, I think, later.
Right now, we`re going to go to NBC investigative correspondent
Michael Isikoff who is near the house where police believe suspect number
two, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, is pinned down in a boat in a backyard.
Michael, what do you see?
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, NBC NEWS INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (via telephone):
Well, the surprising thing is I arrived here about 40 minutes ago, and it
looked like the situation was pretty much in some senses under control. We
understand the teen had been surrounded in the house where the boat was,
and people do not seem alarmed, a lot of people out on the street,
everybody with their cell phones, trying to get pictures.
And then about, I would say, 10, 15 minutes ago, we heard what sounded
like more gunfire. Probably about six or seven shots, and then additional
few shots. So, I`m not quite sure what to make of that. It is a bit
puzzling because, who fired those shots, was anyone hurt, we don`t know.
I`m being told -- wait, I`ve got a colleague here with a police
scanner who is saying that -- there`s movement in the boat, where he is
supposed to be. At left according to the police scanner right now.
So, it would appear he`s still alive, until -- I would assume to be
HAYES: Just to reiterate what our colleague Erica Hill reported
earlier, the senior police department official made the following quote,
"Yes, we think so that`s him. A woman called and a report of blood in the
backyard leading to the boat." Boston P.D. says he`s hit. He`s probably
been there all day and was identified on thermal imaging. The BPD says he
wasn`t moving at first but is now.
Michael, do you have any sense today -- right now, just a few minutes
go, we have some reports of some kind of use of flash bangs or something
like that. Can you see from your vantage point if the police have the
place surrounded? If they have advanced on it, or are you too far away to
make that out?
ISIKOFF: Well, we`re not that far away. At least we don`t think we
are, probably certainly half a mile, maybe less than that. There`s massive
police presence. And it`s really surreal in the sense when you think about
We are talking about one guy.
ISIKOFF: (INAUDIBLE) and the massive police presence. And military -
- I don`t see them at the moment, but I see a lot of tactical, SWAT, police
cars, fire trucks, ambulances as well. There is probably hundreds of
police here right now. And lots of vehicles and it`s all to contain and
apprehend one guy.
HAYES: You are seeing images on your screen, just to the viewers,
you`re seeing images of your screen of some of those tactical vehicles,
massive amounts of military brought into Watertown starting last night and
throughout the day. Of course, this has become something we`ve seen in the
last 10 years, local departments, local law enforcement officials, through
federal money sometimes, being able to acquire this kind of equipment.
Bolster up SWAT teams and the like, all of that being brought to bear right
I think that reason, if you are looking for context of why the amount
of force that is out is that last night there was a shootout. There was a
police officer from MIT who was shot and killed. We don`t know for sure if
that was at the hand of the suspect.
But we do know in the shootout, last night there were 200 rounds
fired. There were improvised explosive devices utilized. So I think there
is a tremendous amount of concern as police are weighing options in terms
of what to do and how to approach suspect number two, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, as
he`s being identified. Whether or not he is currently in position of any
of the kinds of artillery or improvised explosive devices that were
deployed last night, and I think have produced this sort of bit of caution
that we are seeing precaution right now as law enforcement tries to figure
out what the next move is.
And we are in what looks like at this point, perhaps the final moment
of what has been a remarkably tense and dramatic day in the city of Boston
and around Boston, beginning in the wee hours of the night last night,
rolling through a day in which Boston was shut down entirely. Nobody on
the streets. The T not running. Heavy police presence throughout the
Reports circulating that the suspect was at large, that he was armed
and dangerous. People told to stay inside for the entire day. Genuinely,
an unprecedented set of actions taken today as major American metropolis
was shut down because of the existence of this single fugitive. Single 19-
year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, born in Kyrgyzstan, of Chechen descent, suspect
number two as identified by the FBI yesterday when they made the decision
to release the photos.
NBC`s Michael Isikoff, thank you for being with us. We will check
Let`s go to Farah Stockman of "The Boston Globe".
Farah, I would like to ask you about the mood in Boston as the
situation is extremely tense in Watertown and just essentially moments
after the police had announced this were lifting the request that people
shelter in place and stay in doors, what we saw was almost immediate
activity in Watertown.
My sense is the rest of the Boston is still out and about at this
FARAH STOCKMAN, BOSTON GLOBE: Yes. It`s just been a crazy day. I
mean, people have been stranded at the airport. People have been staying
home in their house. I happen to live two blocks from the suspect. So I
was woken by calls from people on Norfolk Street. I walked out and it was
a ghost town. I walked two blocks to the suspect`s house.
And there were hundreds of people out there being evacuated. Some of
them were classmates. Some were neighbors.
It`s just a really mind-boggling bewildering day for those who knew
the family and for those who don`t.
HAYES: We`ve gotten report throughout the day of people that knew the
Tsarnaev brothers, that knew the family. And it is remarkable how much it
appears, from the reports we`ve seen, interviews that I`ve read that I`ve
been reading throughout the day, and there have been quite a few.
He attended the local public high school. He was on the wrestling and
volleyball team. He received a $2,500 scholarship from the city of
Cambridge from promising student.
How much he was woven into the fabric of just everyday life in the
city of Cambridge?
STOCKMAN: Absolutely. He came, when he was 9 years old. His father
had been an attorney in Russia. This is what I`m hearing. And had applied
-- brought the family here in 2002, had applied for asylum, got it right
And he was often -- the father was often seen fixing cars outside.
That is how he made his money. It seems he would repair old cars and sell
them. And people --
HAYES: Farah, let me just -- I`m sorry, let me interrupt you for one
moment. We are now getting word -- Pete Williams is reporting there is a
fire on the boat.
If you`re just joining us or just coming in, there is a fire in a boat
in the backyard behind in the house in a town of Watertown, Massachusetts,
just west of Cambridge.
That you see there on the screen. That is the boat. It is that boat
where suspect number two in the Boston marathon bombings is believed to be
pinned down and trapped at the moment, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. He is believed
to be in there.
Of course, he and his brother, it appears, we believe, a shootout with
the police in the wee hours of the morning and last night. That resulted
in t death of his older brother, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Dzhokhar
appears to be pinned down in the back of that house, in the boat.
Pete Williams is now reporting that boat is on fire. There has been a
tremendous amount of police presence, law enforcement. A number of
different agencies have converged on Watertown. That convergence
intensified in just the last hour, in the wake of a police press conference
lifting the request for people to stay inside and just a little bit after
that, a rush of police into the area and an explosion of gunfire.
Joining us on the phone right now is Rebecca Kreiger. Her backyard
looks into the yard where everything is happening.
Rebecca, can you tell me what you`re seeing?
REBECCA KREIGER, EYEWITNESS (via telephone): Right now, I`m seeing a
lot of flashing lights from police cars. I`m hearing a lot of dogs. There
are still helicopters overhead, I think. I`m just seeing right now,
there`s a house blocking where the house with the boat is.
But I can see a lot of police officers roaming around. And it`s
scary. There`s a lot going on. Maybe a hundred yards from me.
HAYES: Rebecca, I imagine you were sheltered in place all day today
in Watertown. Were you close enough to hear the firefight that happened in
KREIGER: Yes. I`m probably half a mile from away from there. I was
up and the stuff with the MIT shooting was going on. So I was on Twitter
Then somebody tweeted there were shootings in Watertown. I thought
they were joking. I thought that this was just something that`s funny and
they were trying to make light of the situation but then I actually -- I
heard gunshots and I heard explosions.
And I freaked out and I woke my parents up. It was really scary.
HAYES: Do you get word when they lifted the, for lack of a bitter
word, curfew were or request that people stay inside. Did you get word?
Did you watch that press conference and did you go outside at that point?
KREIGER: Yes, I watched that press conference but I was not leaving
my house. I won`t leave my house until this is solved. This is really
HAYES: I can imagine. Did you yourself hear the incredible hail of
gunfire that we played tape of earlier, right by the house that you`re
KREIGER: Yes. I didn`t actually hear your tape. I haven`t been
watching TV really. But yes, I heard so many, probably about an hour after
that press conference. You know, things were calming down. And then the
helicopters that had flown away came back. And they were circling over our
house. Not even an hour.
But they were circling over our house, and then, all of sudden, we
heard, it was short, but a lot of rapid gunfire. It was really, really
close to our house, like I could, it was -- you know, maybe three houses
away from us. It was scary.
Then, all of a sudden 40 police cars started rushing down our street.
Then there were big trucks coming. And more police cars and sirens and
flashing lights. There were people hiding in our bushes. It was intense.
HAYES: Rebecca, hold on one second. Since we have video of what that
sounded like, just a little while, short while ago, the reason that all
eyes are on Watertown. The reason we are bringing you this live and
breaking coverage, of Watertown, on the house on Franklin Street, you see
on your right, with the boat on the back.
The reasoning we are doing that, is because at this moment, it is
believed that the second suspect, younger of two brothers who was
identified as a suspect in the fatal bombings of the Boston marathon
earlier this week, that he is at this moment pinned down and trapped in
And the reason that we know that or the reason police have reason to
believe that is a fire fight that happened right around the boat. Just
about a little more than an hour ago. This is what it sounded like.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HAYES: Rebecca, do you know anything about the owner of the boat?
Are you close enough to the person that lives there to know anything about
KREIGER: I pass it maybe everyday. It`s right near my house. But I
don`t know the people who live there.
HAYES: It`s remarkable, a fact that we appear -- it appears from
report we`ve received that the initial tip-off that suspect might be in
there was a very observant person, spotting some blood on the boat which is
what it appears tripped off the chain of event that has led to this.
Boston P.D. has confirmed that some thermal was used as well to confirm
actually his presence there.
Right now, we are looking at live shots of Watertown. Our cameras
cannot, of course, for very, very, very good reason, get close enough to
bring you a live shot of what exactly is happening that very moment.
But we do know, we have been told, that the suspect number two is
believed by law enforcement officials to be pinned down in the boat in the
backyard in Watertown, Massachusetts.
Farah, are you still there?
HAYES: Farah, how are you doing?
STOCKMAN: Hi, I`m good. I`m good.
HAYES: We were talking -- Rebecca, I want to keep you on the line if
that`s OK, in case we hear if anything happens.
Farah, we were talking about how in reading the accounts of the
Tsarnaev brothers, particularly the younger one who came at a young age to
the United States and grew up for all intents and purposes here, was an
American citizen, how thoroughly he was integrated into the community in
Cambridge, how many people knew him. How much he was a -- for lack after
less loaded term, or in some sense is a less slippery term -- a regular
STOCKMAN: Yes. That is what is so extraordinary about this manhunt.
It`s for a 19-year-old boy, who for the last two weeks has been tweeting
about eating cheeseburgers, and M&M lyrics. I mean, doing his homework,
being bored with his doing homework. And it`s just crazy to realize that
this is the same kid.
And on marathon Monday, that`s when his tweet started to get weird.
He tweeted, "LOL, those people are cooked." Then he tweeted, "There are
people that know the truth but they stay silent."
And so he has some strange sort of tweets over the past month or so,
and in recent days that give a sense of his mind-set. But it is something
to keep in mind. I remember waking up this morning and watching TV and
someone on TV said, clearly, people who did this are sociopaths.
This is a 19-year-old kid who seems, when you look at his Twitter
account, to be a normal kid. He has friends who love him. They partied.
He smoked pot. I mean, he was not your average religious extremist.
So, there`s a lot more answers that we need to get.
HAYES: I should reiterate, of course, as we look at his photo, as we
discuss his tweets. He is a suspect at this point. That is the term that
we use under these conditions for good reason.
And we know that many of the friends of his who went to the local
Cambridge public school there, that they, in subsequent interviews, I think
one of the questions we had was, were people identifying him when images
were made public by the FBI yesterday.
In retrospect, I think what is clear to everyone, is a tremendous
break in the investigation. And quite a wise decision insofar as making
images public seem to be the thing that have accelerated this investigation
so very quickly and dramatically over the last 27 to 28 hours.
The friend of his in Cambridge that I have seen interviewed, high
school students and college friends, that they had a passing thought it
looked like him but dismissed it because of what exactly they knew about
STOCKMAN: No, I talked to a kid this morning who absolutely knew it
was him. I talked to a kid this morning who said he could not sleep last
night because he knew this was him. And he kept looking at the photo and
looking at the photo and couldn`t get it out of his mind.
So, I think this leads to the chain of event that happened last night.
These guys knew they were going to be recognized. I bet their friends were
tweeting them and saying, hey, that looks like you. White baseball cap
turned around backward was this kid`s signature.
STOCKMAN: So I know that they did not do the 7-Eleven robbery, but
our working theory is that they were in that vicinity, right by that 7-
Eleven, when the cop came, when MIT cop to respond to the robbery, they
thought he was coming to them and shot the cop.
HAYES: Farah, I`m going to interrupt you for one moment because we
have NBC News justice correspondent Pete Williams. We also have some news,
Boston police saying there is a negotiator on the scene. There is now a
negotiator on the scene. We can report that.
That is obviously a very, very significant development in this.
PETE WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes. It may or
may not be.
WILLIAMS: I don`t know -- you know, I was listening to that myself,
Chris. I don`t know what it means. I`m sure on the scene there were
negotiators ready to go. So, on one sense they were on the scene but what
we don`t know is if they are there standing talking to him at the boat.
That would be the more interesting question. And I think we don`t know
But what we do know is that about an hour and a half ago, there was
gunfire at a bet that in the backyard after woman who called police and
said she saw blood on the tarp of her boat and they responded, they sent a
helicopter over. They did thermal imaging. They detected a body inside, a
The police moved in. They moved in slowly at first. There was an
exchange of gunfire and a pause and then the police assaulted the boat.
Police and federal agent assaulted the boat. They threw grenades known as
We`ve heard conflicting stories about whether that started the fire on
the boat. And now, we`re told there is no resolution. And we`re just
waiting to hear what`s happening. It could be that negotiator on the scene
is actually there trying to talk to this person.
But we don`t know that part. We just know there`s no resolution yet.
HAYES: Pete, you may not know the answer to this. But I`ll ask in
case you do, which is that there is some speculation and I think not crazy
speculation but given the timing in the police local law enforcement
lifting the request that people stay indoors, and the fact that there seems
to be movement towards identifying where the suspect was, that that was
some kind of rouse to draw him out.
Do you have any information on that?
WILLIAMS: I can`t imagine that anyone would have thought that would
have worked. The thinking was, he was wounded. He was hurt in the
encounter with the police last night when they stopped the car in Watertown
and killed his brother. He was shot and wounded. We knew that because
there was blood in the car that he abandoned. There was a trail of blood
out of the car.
So, I don`t know how they thought that could have drawn him out. I`m
not sure exactly why they decided to lift it. I think perhaps they thought
that -- as they said, it would be in essence returning to the status quo
after the bombing. They knew there would be a bomber at large but, of
course, this would be a more desperate one. It also could be that they got
a lot of tips and thought that perhaps he wasn`t in the area anymore. We
know they were aggressively chasing those down all day.
The supposition I think was still that he was in the area somewhere
HAYES: It also appears from the reporting that we`ve received that
they were -- he and his brother, that in the firefight last night, there
was a tremendous amount of gunfire and even other explosive devices
utilized. And I imagine that`s a huge part of why we are seeing the kind
of presence and I think the kind of caution that we are seeing in
WILLIAMS: So in terms of how the suspect or person in the boat is
doing, there doesn`t seem to be much movement now. But they have thermal
imaging devices that apparently are finally calibrated enough that they can
tell whether somebody is still alive. They say that the body is still
giving a signature of someone who is still alive. But they believe he is
probably in a very weakened condition. Whether that`s because he was
wounded or just because -- today, or just because of his wound last night,
we don`t know.
HAYES: Do you have a sense of what the standard operating procedure
is under these circumstances?
WILLIAMS: In what sense?
HAYES: Well, what next? Do they stay surrounding the boat? Is there
some decision made at a certain point to move in? Do they try to bring
someone out to negotiate with him? What is the way that some kind of --
this sort of thing generally will proceed? Or what are the options before
enforcement in terms of how they go about bringing this -- we think, we
think -- to some kind of resolution?
WILLIAMS: Well, there will be some kind of decision shortly. It
seems quite clear. They made the decision to assault the boat earlier this
evening, and throw the flash bang grenade to try to bring this to a
conclusion. Obviously their hope all along has been to capture him alive.
They want to know all sorts of questions. How did they think up this plot?
Were they directed by someone else? Is it something they did themselves?
What was it that turned them against the U.S. and made them want to stage
this bombing? Or if it didn`t turn them against the U.S., why did they
want to kill their fellow human beings?
They have got a lot of questions they want answered. And they would
certainly like to certainly get him alive and eventually put him on trial.
So that`s I think one of the goals here. It`s a combination of preserving
the safety of the officers and making sure it is safe to approach him, and
at the same time, try to capture him alive if they can, knowing that he is
a very dangerous and desperate man.
HAYES: Final question for you, Pete. You just said capture him and
put him on trial. Senator Lindsay Graham has Tweeted today about
essentially urging the Obama administration to consider not Mirandizing,
not using the standard procedures of due process for someone in a criminal
proceeding, but to declare him an enemy combatant or do some other parallel
kind of legal regime.
My question to you is, are investigators -- I imagine investigators
are proceeding according to the textbook in this case, which is essentially
due process, U.S. Constitution, FBI, DOJ procedure. Is that right? Pete?
OK. All right. We now have on the phone -- we have someone who grew
up with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Her name is Andrenae. She asked to go by her
first name only. She went to school from 6th to 12th grade with Dzhokhar.
Is that right, Andrenae?
ANDRENAE, WENT TO SCHOOL WITH DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV: Yes, it was middle
school. I had recess with him. He went to the school around the corner
from me, so we had recess together, and from freshman to my senior year in
HAYES: Can I ask you to turn the TV down in there, if that`s all
ANDRENAE: Yeah, no problem.
HAYES: We have on the phone Andrenae, who went to school with
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who is suspect number two, currently, we believe, pinned
down in a boat in a backyard in Watertown, Massachusetts, after a firefight
that was there this night and another fire fight.
HAYES: Can you tell me what your sense is of Dzhokhar, what he was
like when you were going to school with him?
ANDRENAE: He was outgoing. He was a popular kid. He wouldn`t
honestly never hurt a fly. So this is really weird to see him in a
situation like this.
HAYES: You also have seen things today. You have been in and around
the area. What have you seen?
ANDRENAE: I`ve seen a lot of FBI detectives on his street and a lot
of FBI agents walking around, searching high and low for him on rooftops,
walking around. And they are really on their feet today.
HAYES: Have they contacted you? Has law enforcement contacted you to
interview you about him?
HAYES: Yeah, please?
ANDRENAE: We were never that close. I know him through mutual
friend. We hung out a few times.
HAYES: Did you know his brother at all? And was there ever any sense
-- I mean, people have said that he was a pretty unassuming kid. He hung
out in social circles similar it yours. Did you know his brother? Did you
have any sense of him at all?
ANDRENAE: No, I never knew his brother.
HAYES: What is the reaction right now among all of the people in this
social network? I was on Twitter today reading some of the Tweets from
folks who apparently had been friends with Dzhokhar, who are in utter
disbelief. And I`m just wondering what is pinging around your social
circles, on Facebook and Twitter and texts in reaction to this news?
ANDRENAE: We are all very hurt. This is not the Dzhokhar we know.
This is not the Dzhokhar we grew up with. So it`s really painful and
heartbreaking for his friends to click on the news to see something like
this, and it`s Dzhokhar, innocent kid that would never hurt a soul. He is
intelligent. He was always smart. And he did everything right. He was a
normal kid. No one would ever expect anything. So we are all really heart
broken. The city of Cambridge and the class of 2011 is all really heart
HAYES: That`s Andrenae who went to school with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who
is of course suspect number two. We are now going to go to NBC`s Kerry
Sanders, who I believe is on the scene right now in Watertown. Kerry, what
do you have is.
KERRY SANDERS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: OK, Chris, let me sort of set
the scene here for you. It was more than an hour ago, of course, that we
were getting to do a live report with Brian Williams on the network. And
we heard a barrage of gunfire coming from that direction, OK. So that`s
about two and half blocks down there. The Charles River would be behind
me. Then it sort of makes a little bit of a jog and the road turns up
So we focused all attention there. And of course so did all of the
authorities, because it was screaming vehicles of police all heading that
direction. Up here, armored personnel carriers with members of the SWAT
team coming up this way, converging up in that direction. Then we had
about -- I want to say about 50 minutes or so of silence. Then we heard
four shots, boom boom, boom boom. Then a little bit of momentary silence.
Then I think it was about eight or nine more shots.
Now this is very hard to do accurately. But as best as I could tell,
the shots were coming from one source and not returning, because they had a
similar sound. And it did not sound like automatic gunfire. It sounded
like the trigger was being pull on a semiautomatic. And it sounded like a
variety of weapons, all with the same sound. So likely multiple officers.
I actually hear some dogs going in there. That`s not a surprise
because they`ve had K-9 units working in and around this neighborhood,
Chris. This neighborhood has been the focus of attention really since last
night. And the reason so is because in the early morning hours, they
believed that their suspect was still about five blocks from where I am up
here, over a little bit to the east.
Now he is found about a half mile that direction to the west, hiding,
they believe, inside the back of a boat. There are reports that a fire has
been started inside that boat. It is believed that he is wounded but still
HAYES: Kerry, let me just hop in because we have some new
information. Suspect`s body is still throwing off heat, we are told.
There is thermal imaging being used by law enforcement to be able to
determine what is going on.
SANDERS: And let`s explain -- right. People have probably scene it
in the movies. But it`s really quite accurate, that thermal imaging,
especially when it starts getting colder now, which it is getting cold.
Your body has a heat. It`s got a heat signature. And some of the highest
tech gear can sort of place out that heat signature, so they can actually
see which is his head and where are his feet, if he is laying down in the
boat, where he is in the boat, to get a general sense of him being there.
Remember, let`s say he`s been wounded and fatally wounded and he is
actually dead, there would still be that heat signature there for some
time. But if he is moving around the boat, if he is say moving from one
side to the other and they see that heat signature moving, and it is kind
of like a ghosting image that drags across from one to the other, they
would then know that he is still alive.
But the authorities, you know, moved down into that area. There is
clearly, those that are on the front line, the SWAT teams that are working
their positions, trying to sight in every detail of what they can. They
try to set up a perimeter of a semi-circle and then get a scene from the
back side, so they can see what is going on. The water makes that perhaps
somewhat a little more difficult with the Charles River.
But they have all the capabilities. There is not a single piece of
hardware or asset that military -- that the police need here. If they have
to borrow from the military, the military is here, to determine what is
going on in that area. From above, although I don`t hear the helicopter
anymore, and from in and around the scene there.
So we hear that a negotiator has been called in. That may be
confusing to some. But Clint Van Zandt, who is a former negotiator with
the FBI, says it would be a classic hand and glove operation for the
negotiator to come in, to try to get the suspect to give himself up.
The biggest question here is, does the suspect, as his brother -- does
he have a vest on with some sort of improvised explosive device, a suicide
vest? Does he intend to take out those who are going to approach him? And
so there is no rush here. They are going to wait this out and feel this
out, Chris, to determine what is the best approach to move forward to take
this person either into custody or recover his body.
HAYES: Thank you, Kerry. We have word that, as we said before, the
suspect`s body is still throwing off heat and he is probably still alive
but week, according to Boston police department official. Pete Williams,
who we were speaking to just before, noted that in the shootout in last
night -- in the early morning today, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and his brother,
Tamerlan Tsarnaev, were involved in a shootout with quite a bit of gunfire.
His brother, his older brother, who was suspect number one in the black
hat, was pronounced dead at a local hospital.
And it is believed because of the blood in the car and a trail of
blood leaving from the car that Dzhokhar was wounded in that. So if you
think about the number of hours it has been since then, this is someone who
has been in hiding presumably for the last 14, 15, 16 hours with presumably
gunshot wounds. It is hard to see exactly how this ends in him being alive
unless there is a negotiation established and he surrenders to the police.
We also have a statement from the family -- we will go to NBC News
coverage at this moment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walked away from their defensive positions. I
would say this is over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, all right. You said a successful recovery,
which we would imply that they have this 19-year-old bombing suspect in
custody, and he is alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know about that assumption. I think
you`ve got the guy recovered with no injury, and whether -- they may throw
me back here. Is he alive? No telling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dan you`re watching from there. Cooper is on
the other side talking to his sources. He may be able to add to what you
said. Steve, what do you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. He is alive. He is in custody and he is
alive. They have asked for a medic to the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suspect number two alive in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is alive. He`s in custody. They are asking
for a medic, to the scene, which means they are going to try to treat him.
Specifics, I don`t` know what that means, but he is in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s the best news, 8:42 on Friday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it over, Rob? Is it all over?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s listen to Steve.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do they have an ambulance there on the scene?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ambulance is coming out of the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they think this guy is in good enough shape
to be able to --
Oh, we see now the ambulance actually pulling in right now. So we`ll
follow that. That`s great news, Steve.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wonder how -- Steve, any idea how they --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ambulances can now go to the scene. We don`t know
what condition he is in. Is that correct? OK. Thanks. Yeah. Just to
recap, from the scene, according to my source, the suspect is in custody.
He is alive. We don`t know what condition he is in, but they have called
for a medic to the scene. It is still considered a hot scene right now, so
they are still officially securing the scene.
But that would go along with what Dan was saying with that, you know,
light applause that he may have heard from his vantage point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s been a horrifying week in Boston, in
the Commonwealth, the nation. The world actually has been watching what`s
happening here, this chain of events. And really about the best possible
outcome tonight. The second suspect wanted in the marathon bombings now
alive, captured, in custody, and about to be attended by medics there in
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We don`t know what his condition is right
now. But Dan, you`re joining us with some updated info as well.
Confirmation of what Steve just said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. State police gave me a strong
handshake when I asked if he was alive. A senior officer telling me, yes,
he is alive. It appears they`re not likely bringing him out this
direction. They appear to be at ease. So I`m suggesting they are probably
going out Birch or Franklin area right now.
But everybody is standing down, satisfied. A few of the officers
taking pictures to commemorate the moment of this successful end. And
incredible to think that when this city was -- and city surrounding it was
shut down because the concerns and the danger and the worries about how
this would end. It ended with a whimper, not a bang. We had some bangs
earlier. It could have easily ended with more. But these officers,
whatever they did, were able to bring at least the end of this to a
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s fantastic, Dan. Of course now, as you
mentioned, the medic is arriving there at the boat to check the condition
of 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. We`re going to figure out exactly the
extent of his injuries. Perhaps we will get that information.
But we know he is injured, but he is alive. Steve and Dan both
getting confirmation from sources that he is alive. And Dan actually
witnessed even some of the police officers there actually giving an
Let`s head outside it to Susan. And Susan, you also have some
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were just standing here awaiting the very
latest. A Massachusetts state trooper walked by and he says, he is alive
and he`s in custody, to which the folks here who have been waiting started
to applaud and said good job, good job. It was actually a sense of relief
for folks here. He walked by and just very calmly said, you know, he is
alive, he is in custody. And it was great relief to not only the folks who
live here, but the folks who have traveled and been covering this for
several days now.
That`s the very latest on this end. There is a sense of great relief
as we try to figure out if we can get a -- some video of this suspect as he
either gets into an ambulance or if he is brought out, because this is the
direction that all of the vehicles have been entering. We`re hoping that
they are going to be exiting this way and we can bring some of that video
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Susan, that`s sounds good. You almost can sense
that there`s a collect sigh of relief, shoulders dropping, with the news
that the second suspect is in custody in Watertown and alive. Boston
police also Tweeting that information. And we have seen people on the
scene there clapping. Steve talked about the officers taking a couple of
photos to remember this night. And who will ever forget it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And finally, we`re going to get some hopefully
soon -- at some point, we are going to get some answers as to exactly why
he and his brother allegedly set those bombs at the Boston Marathon, the
finish line on Boylston Street, and then 50 yards away, detonating 15
HAYES: All right, we are back from coverage from our local affiliate
in Boston, WHDH. What you just heard was a remarkable and genuinely
surprising end to the standoff and manhunt that has absolutely dominated
the nation`s attention and has closed down the city of Boston for the last
28 hours. What we have just seen is the end to the standoff.
It appears -- and Boston police has Tweeted that the suspect, Dzhokhar
Tsarnaev, suspect number two as identified in the FBI`s photos yesterday in
the Boston Marathon bombing on Monday that killed three people and injured
over 100, that that suspect has been apprehended alive and is in custody,
which I have to say everyone watching this play out throughout the entire
day, everyone who monitored the news last night on scanners and on social
media and here on cable news, it is truly and genuinely surprising and
An incredible job by law enforcement that he was brought in alive.
Suspect, once again, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the 19 year old American citizen,
who is suspect number two in the bombing, was just brought in live in
custody with law enforcement. Let`s bring in NBC`s Kerry Sanders who has a
local resident with him named Wayne Matrona (ph). Kerry?
SANDERS: Yeah, Wayne Matrona is here with us. I thought we would
just ask a resident who has been held captive in his home here since last
night, OK, so the final conclusion here is that the suspect has been taken
into custody and he is alive. So your thoughts about what you have been
through in the past 24 hours, the fact that he is in custody and the way it
has concluded here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, again, I was woken by the explosions, which
were just a mere 30, 35 feet from where I live here in Watertown. And
rapid gunfire, which obviously jarred my curiosity, as it did all the
citizens. And then the parade of police and military was something like I
have never seen before.
SANDERS: How unsettling is it for you to be in your home, not allowed
to leave until really around 6:00 today, and then after being let out,
discovering OK, just a short distance from here, they may have found the
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it is strange in this respect, that
Watertown is a very, very easy going, very community type of environment.
And this community which has a little solidarity and people embracing one
another, suddenly went dead ghost, nothing, that residents were frightened
and stuck within their homes and didn`t have the opportunity actually to go
out and find out, except for obviously expressions from people like
KERRY: What has it been like to be holed up in your home, unsure
whether someone is hiding in your basement, hiding outside in your
backyard, whether somebody is using you as a cover for their attempts to
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I noticed a number of police and military
personnel going to homes and --
KERRY: Did they enter your home?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They did enter my home.
KERRY: Explain that. They come into your home, what was that like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They knocked on the door. They explained that
they were obviously looking for the suspect and they would like to check
out all of the residence. I heard they checked about 200 different homes.
KERRY: Right. But specifically your home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
HAYES: How reluctant were you to even open that door?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not very. Because of the situation that happened
Monday, it almost seems that the citizens of this community embraced the
police and the FBI and other members of law enforcement. And in trying to
say, yeah, you can come in and scratch my house off the list. As long as
you feel safer and things happen well, you`re welcome.
KERRY: Chris, go ahead. Chris, I`m sorry, I lost you. You have a
HAYES: I`m sorry. I got you back, Kerry.
It was quite an ordeal. Is there just, I imagine, an overwhelming
sense of relief right now in the entire town?
KERRY: Yeah. I think so. We just grabbed him off the street here
because he is walking down. I just have to believe that it is not just a
sense of relief here Watertown. I mean, it`s really for the nation,
because the real question was, you know, did this suspect somehow allude
the authorities, leave this area, and where might he have gone? And you
know, this was -- as they said at the very beginning, when the very first
announcement was made in the investigation, this cowardly act of people who
would put bombs at the finish line of the Boston Marathon and killed
children and wounded innocent people who had gathered for what is one of
the highlights of New England. It`s this and the Fourth of July.
What is the sense of relief for you? And do you have the desire to
know why? They have taken him into custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Truly, I want to know why, because what would make
an individual choose to hurt the innocent at that level, especially, as you
mentioned, it was marathon day. And generally here in New England, it`s
almost the unofficial white wakening to spring. People get out, have a
good time, cheer on people. There is no intrepidation. Now there was a
sense of intrepidation, because we saw people, innocents get murdered and
killed and maimed.
The sense -- I don`t know. I feel more secure. I felt good seeing
the presence that I did as far as the police and such is concerned, and the
backing that the majority of the community members gave them. And the
sense of, well, we brought this to a certain end, or somewhat of an end, at
least at this level.
KERRY: So he is taken into custody. He may answer the question as to
why. But will you ever understand, no matter -- we don`t know what it is,
but will we ever understand why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand why. Again, it just -- it is
beyond belief why someone would want to, again, mar a day of pride and
embrace and enjoy --
KERRY: And murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And murder.
HAYES: Thank you very much. Chris, you know, that`s one resident
here`s thoughts. I`m sure we are going to hear from a lot more. I think I
heard my colleague Lester Holt say on the other side of town, where more
people had gathered on the streets when they heard that there had been this
gunfire. And they thought at that point they had taken the suspect and
either taken him into custody or he was dead, that there was actually some
cheering there because it was a sense of relief. Not cheering for the
death or the assumed death at that point, but just the sense that, wow, it
is finally over.
HAYES: Yes, the city has been on edge all day. Kerry Sanders, thank
you so much. Let`s go to Roger Cressey, NBC News terrorism expert. Roger,
we have been told the suspect has been taken and is alive and in custody.
So the question now is what happens next?
ROGER CRESSEY, NBC NEWS TERRORISM EXPERT: Chris, as you said, it is
remarkable and it`s incredibly good news, because the first thing they are
going to do, they are going to question him. They are going to try and get
to the bottom of the fundamental question, why? Why did you do it?
They`re going to ask him who else he worked with. They`re going to ask him
were there any other explosive devices in places that the police have not
identified them yet.
They are going to begin that process. You mentioned earlier about a
Tweet from Senator Graham about not going through the civilian judicial
process. It is inconceivable to me that the administration would do that.
So I expect him to be Mirandized. I think you expect him to be arraigned.
And the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the people who have suffered this
heinous crime are going to want to see him prosecuted there.
The second thing that is going to happen, Chris, is whatever
information gleaned from the interrogation and the interview, they can then
put that into the intelligence community process, and they are starting to
sift through whether or not there are any links overseas at all, whether or
not his brother`s travel for six months to Russia was part of the event
that triggered ultimately the attack on Monday.
So there are an enormous amount of questions that have to be asked.
And now, that the suspect is in custody, Tsarnaev hopefully is in good
enough shape, he can begin to answer those questions and we can start going
in the proper direction.
HAYES: On that note, we have a note here. Boston police say they
took their suspect into custody alive. We`re bringing up an ambulance to
transport him. He is believed to have suffered a gunshot wound and lost
blood. It is not clear how weakened he was.
What is the jurisdiction here? Will he be arraigned? And if so, will
that be by federal authorities or by local police?
CRESSEY: Well, because this is an FBI investigation and a terrorism
investigation, I would assume it will be federal authorities and he would
be arraigned in the federal courthouse in Boston, and then the process will
be going in that direction. What we have seen up to this point is we have
seen terrorism cases tried in the southern district of New York and the
eastern district of Virginia with great success. But you can imagine the
Justice`s Department capability and resources will be brought to bear here.
And I`m sure they will be highly confident that, if this is tried in the
Commonwealth, they will feel very confident about the outcome.
HAYES: Yeah. We have seen a long record of terrorism treated through
law enforcement mechanisms, arrests, trials, successful conviction that
have happened. That stretching back even to the aftermath of 9/11. Of
course, famously, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which was also that.
You are seeing live images of Watertown, where it appears residents
have come out on to the street, if I`m not mistaken, to cheer law
enforcement who have pulled off something genuinely remarkable, which is
that after an incredibly tense and bloody, tragic day, a day in which an
MIT officer by the name of Sean Collier was killed, a day in which the
entire metropolitan Boston and local surrounding suburbs were shut down, in
which the T wasn`t running, in which people stayed inside all day, checking
the news and listening to the radio and monitoring social media, being told
solely that there was a single armed and extremely dangerous suspect
stalking the streets, a suspect who had, along with his brother, apparently
fired off 200 round, who had possession of, it appears, improvised
explosive devices, that at the end of that long manhunt and that standoff,
amazingly and somewhat improbably, it appears he has been taken alive.
The suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, a 19-year-old American citizen, brother
of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The older suspect, the 26-year-old Tamerlan,
pronounced dead at a hospital in the wee hours of the morning after that
gun battle I just noted. Law enforcement on the scene has said Dzhokhar
sustained significant blood loss, which is not at all surprising given the
fact that there was that gun battle that Pete Williams described, given the
fact that law enforcement officials noted there was blood streaking out of
the car he occupied.
You are now seeing local residents streaming out on to the street.
You can see the sense of catharsis, which is a completely understandable
emotion underneath the conditions that everyone there, particularly in
local Watertown, is having to go to, which has been the epicenter of the
shut down. They have seen a tremendous amount of tactical units and
heavily armed law enforcement officials going through the streets. They
have been told that an armed killer is stalking through their streets and
have had to stay inside, peeking out their windows.
At the end of all this, at the end of 28, 30 hours of this Odyssey we
have been on since the FBI came before the nation just yesterday -- just
yesterday -- it is really remarkable that we are sitting here tonight, that
just yesterday the FBI came before the nation with photos and videos taken
by surveillance cameras and taken from spectators at the scene, identified
two suspects. And here we are now, coming up on 9:00 p.m. And one of
those suspect is dead and one of those suspects, the younger Dzhokhar
Tsarnaev, 19-year-old, has been taken into custody alive.
That is it for our coverage this evening. That`s it for ALL IN this
evening. Our coverage of the latest developments in Boston now continues
with "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW."
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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