updated 5/28/2013 12:03:39 PM ET 2013-05-28T16:03:39

THE ED SHOW
May 25, 2013

Guests: John Nichols, Keith Ellison, James Peterson, Caroline Heldman, Robert Greenwald


ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED SHOW
live from New York.

Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

SCHULTZ: There is an unparalleled relentless attack on public education.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire them all, pull their benefits, their pensions,
their health care.

SCHULTZ: Did you know that your pension is just too bad?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Don`t tell me, don`t tell
me. They`re the party of education and choice.

SCHULTZ: You teachers, you`ve never worked a day in your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know now that closing school is failed education
policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I also want to mention, that teachers, those are heroes
protecting our kids. We entrust them every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a teacher, numerous tales of teachers hiding
kids in closets and doing everything they can do.

SCHULTZ: When I say, you`re the most important people on the planet,
that`s what the hell I`m talking about.

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I love teachers.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (D), NEW JERSEY: They said it was impossible to speak
the truth to the teachers union.

They are a thuggery operation.

ROMNEY: I love teachers.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: In our schools, we can hire and fire
based on merit.

ROMNEY: I love teachers but I want to get our private sector growing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we all love teachers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Everybody loves teachers.

Good to have you with us tonight. Thanks for joining us.

It was a devastating week were the citizens of Moore, Oklahoma. As a
viewer, it was tough to watch. They are still recovering from this
powerful EF-5 tornado that ripped through their town again on Monday.

But during this horrible tragedy, stories of heroism have emerged from
everyday citizens and resident, first responders and most importantly in
the conversation, those who were there in those schools, public
schoolteachers. Two elementary schools were destroyed by this mile-wide
tornado but thankfully teachers put themselves in harms way to protect
their students. We`ve heard that story before.

So, the conservative news media has taken it upon themselves to quickly
brand them as heroes.

I have to throw the flag on that one for just a moment. Hold it a moment.
They`re heroes. I don`t want to hearing anything about teachers being
called heroes until these same people stand up for them and fight for our
public schools and our public schoolteachers, our educators because they
are under attack all over America.

And, unfortunately, this story isn`t getting enough attention so I`m here
to tell you to real story. It shouldn`t really take a school shooting or a
tornado across this country for us to realize that there are heroes in
classrooms every day in every school across America.

But when it comes time to talk about their pay or a better health care or
their pension or even protecting their pension, whoa, we don`t hear any
hero talk then, do we? They`re a bunch of union thugs. They`re a bunch of
underachievers -- people that you would never think would step up during a
disaster and save a child`s life.

No, they`re only heroes when they do that.

A White House report shows that 300,000 education jobs have been cut since
2009. Three hundred thousand, is that going forward or backward you think?

The Republican budget cuts is what they are. Along with the recession, no
doubt it has created a very toxic environment for teachers in their
profession. And right now, ground zero you could say is Chicago, the
Chicago public schools are ground zero -- the battle to protect our
teachers and save an American institution.

This week, Mayor Rahm Emanuel, he`s the expert, you know? He handpicks the
Chicago school board voted to close 50 schools. It is the largest round of
school closures ever to hit this country.

There is no denying that the closings hurt poor African-American
neighborhoods and African-American kids. Now, the "Chicago Sun-Times"
reported that nine out of 10 students affected by these closings are black.
Now, these closures obviously sparked a massive protest throughout the city
of Chicago this past week.

One nine-year-old student at a rally had no problem giving the mayor a
piece of his mind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASEAN JOHNSON, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT: Rahm Emanuel thinks that we
all are toys. He thinks that he can just come into our schools and move
all our kids, all over gang lines and just say, "Let`s take this school
out; we don`t care about these kids." But this kids, they need safety.

(CHEERS)

Rahm Emanuel does not care about our schools. He`s not caring about our
safety. He only cares about his kids. He only cares about what he needs.
He do not care about nobody else but himself.

You should be investing in these schools, not closing them. You should be
supporting these schools, not closing them.

(CHEERS)

This is racism right here. This is racism. We are black and we are proud.

We are white and we are proud. No matter what the color is, no matter if
you`re Asian, Chinese, it doesn`t matter. You should not be closing these
schools without walking into them, seeing what is happening in these
schools.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, Asean Johnson got the attention of Mayor Rahm Emanuel. You
see, his school avoided closure at the very last minute but 50 other
schools weren`t so lucky.

Here`s a map of Chicago showing the schools being shut down. And as you
can see, the majority of these schools are in neighborhoods with high
poverty rates, neighborhoods with drug problems, gang problems and daily
murders. Now, these neighborhoods are being dealt yet another major blow
with school closures.

There is doubt that parts of Chicago are definitely dangerous, but it seems
to me they have a security problem and they`re blaming public education. A
nine-year-old kid has to stand up and tell the mayor what he has to know
and what the community knows all along?

In 2012, 2,600 people were shot, 532 were murdered. And these school
closures, I think they could drive the numbers even higher.

Nine-year-old Asean also pointed out how moving kids to new schools could
be pretty dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: If you close Garvey and some other schools, if they go behind
gang lines, then you`re set in danger for yourself. That`s what Rahm
Emanuel was doing. He was setting danger for all of the children. You say
you`re trying to protect the children but you`re sending them behind gang
lines because some kids have to walk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: You got that folks? A nine-year-old kid knows what`s going on in
Chicago.

Now, I remember Rahm Emanuel, he said that, you know, not every kid is
going to make it.

The president spoke at a black college last weekend and talked about
leadership and talked about setting and example. What example does it
send, what example does it set, what message does it send when you say that
some kids just aren`t going to make it?

Now, was Rahm Emanuel, was he talking about that nine-year-old kid? Asean
Johnson?

You see, these school closures are literally endangering kids lives.
Students could be forced to cross gang territories during their commute to
school.

Meanwhile, it`s not just Chicago. Pay attention to this. Public schools
all over the country are under attack.

Let`s go to Wisconsin where Governor Scott Walker has been going off public
education since day one. On Thursday, Walker touted his great education
accomplishments during a speech in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: In our schools we can hire and fire based on merit, we can pay
based on performance. That means we the put the best and the brightest in
our classrooms and we can afford to keep them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, it sounds so good, doesn`t it?

Don`t let Walker fool you. He`s cut over $800 million from public
education in Wisconsin and, currently, he`s pushing a voucher program to
funnel more public money to the private schools? Do you like that deal?

How about New Jersey? Governor Chris Christie has actively fought the
teacher`s union and made it harder for teachers to gain tenure.

In Ohio, Governor John Kasich tried and failed to limit teacher`s rights to
collectively bargain.

In Louisiana, Governor Bobby Jindal, overhauled school funding with a brand
new voucher program. Luckily, his program was so damn radical, it was
ruled unconstitutional.

In Indiana, let`s not forget slick Mitch Daniels. He put in place the
nation`s largest voucher program ever.

In Michigan, well, it was Governor Rick Snyder. He created the emergency
city manager`s position who really can just wipe out schools with executive
order.

This is also been such a collective effort on these folks. And, of course,
Snyder has been pushing these vouchers as well.

I have to ask you tonight, folks. What do all of these governors have in
common? They are Republicans. They hate public education. They want to
voucher Medicare, the want voucher health care, they want to voucher public
education. They don`t mind if some kids fail.

You know, that currently 13 states have some form of a voucher program.
Make no mistake, these vouchers are -- it`s a conservative plot to
privatize education. These vouchers are going to leave kids behind.

It will funnel public education funds right into private school. Why?
Because these people think it`s going to be better?

It is unfair. It`s racist. And in some courts, it`s been ruled
unconstitutional.

So when I start hearing all this talk about heroes, the teachers are
heroes. They`re heroes at shootings. They`re heroes at tornados.

No, they`re heroes every damn day because they`re putting up with an
ideology that is attacking them!

There used to be a time in this country when school was the focal point of
the community. It was a sense of pride. It was where you could go and
feel good about being there because everybody had a common goal.

Now, it seems like we`re at each other`s throats because politicians have
created this environment of confrontation that teachers aren`t good enough,
that they get paid too much, that their pension is too high. And so, let`s
cut a bunch of them and we`ll come up with some new criteria.

You know, in America if you want to be an expert on education all you have
to do is get elected governor.

None of these folks have spent a day in the classroom, but all of a sudden,
they`re absolutely experts when it comes to public education and how your
kid ought to be education.

I just want to know if Rahm Emmanuel thought that nine-year-old kid was one
of the kids that should fall by the wayside. Was that one you would have
selected or not selected, Rahm?

American education is the foundation of this country`s greatness, and when
we start picking and choosing kids, when we start picking and choosing
neighbors, when we start picking and choosing based on race, based on
socioeconomic situations, we lose. We lose as a country.

There is an organization called the Bradley Foundation which is, I think,
behind all of this. They want to privatize everything. They want to kill
public education in America and they`re helping these governors do just
that in their states.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: do you think politicians really respect public
educators?

Text A for yes, text B for no, to 67622. You can always go to our blog at
Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

For more on the Bradley Foundation, one of my friends who has researched
this, from "The Nation" magazine, journalist John Nichols.

John, good to have you with us tonight.

JOHN NICHOLS, THE NATION: It`s great to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: What`s behind the Republican push for voucher programs? What is
it? That that think this is going to be the key to saving or presenting
fair opportunity to every kid in this country?

NICHOLS: Well, understand one important factor here. The Republican Party
didn`t always oppose public education, wasn`t always at odds with public
education. In fact, historically, Republican governors were among the
biggest backers of public schools.


But one of the things we`ve seen in the last couple of decades is real
assault not just on public education, but on teachers themselves. By a lot
of political forces that seem to believe that teachers are too dominant,
too strong a force in our politics.

And this is the interesting dynamic. You know, when you see attacks on
public education, when you see attacks on teachers, you really seeing an
attack on what is public, that which is our public infrastructure, those
things that we do together to that work well.

And I think that one of the great challenges right now is that it has
become very politically viable because --

SCHULTZ: To go after them. It`s politically viable to go after them
because they don`t want to pay for it.

They think that teachers --

NICHOLS: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: -- are robbing the state treasury. There`s an easy target here
and it`s twofold.

They can go after the political machine which teachers have had to become
to save their profession. But those teachers in those unions and those
teachers that are out protesting, they care about the kids in the
classroom. They`re protecting the resources that need to be in that
classroom.

And you`ve got the school of thought dished out by the governors that I
pointed out. They think that we can get rid of teachers who don`t fall in
line and see their privatization view and that some kids just aren`t going
to make it.

And the Bradley Foundation is behind this, are they not?

NICHOLS: Well, they`re one of many groups. One thing to understand, Ed,
is that there is a network of groups across this country funded by very,
very wealthy people in states, you know all of the states you`ve mentioned,
in Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, and also working in Chicago, trying to
argue that there`s a one size fits all fix for the concerns we have as
regards to education.

The trouble with all of these groups is that they produce, quote-unquote,
"solutions" that come from on high, that are formulated by a lot of wealthy
people who aren`t particularly big fans of taxes.

SCHULTZ: That`s what I want to get to.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: -- public sector.

SCHULTZ: John, I want to get to the money. The Bradley Foundation is
being funded by wealthy people who do not want every kid in this country to
have the exact same opportunity. That is what`s happening in this country.

Would you counter that or is that right?

NICHOLS: Well, I think that the Bradley Foundation is a group that does a
lot of research and in fact puts ideas out there and some of those ideas
are viable and very worthy of consideration.

But where the challenge comes is that you see this get linked into
politics. To give you an example, in the Wisconsin one you had the recall
elections in 2011, in 2012, a huge portion of the funding from very wealthy
donors out Wisconsin for Scott Walker and from many of his allies came from
people that are tides into these education debates.

And you have to ask yourself, is that a healthy scenario in Indiana, in
Ohio --

SCHULTZ: No, it`s not a healthy scenario.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: This money is coming from outside.

SCHULTZ: It`s not because they`re picking and choosing neighborhoods,
they`re picking and choosing kids. They have a failed philosophy.

They want to change America is what they want to do. That`s the
conservative agenda right now.

John Nichols, good to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your time.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen and
share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow, and own Facebook. We
always want to know what you think.

And while you have your cell phones out tonight, folks, I want you to text
Red Cross 90999 to make a $10 donation to the Red Cross to help the relief
efforts to the folks down in Oklahoma.

From Appleby`s rotten tax tricks, should I say Apple`s rotten tax tricks,
to Anthony Weiner`s reveal tweet. Find out what is this week`s top
trender.

And the disaster in Oklahoma has Republicans twisting their policies on
disaster relief. The rapid response panel and myself, we will set them
straight.

Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: You know, here at THE ED SHOW, we want to know what you think and
every week before you tune into the show, we check out Facebook, Twitter
and our blog. So now you decided and we are reporting.

Here are this week`s top trenders voted only by you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEIDAN: After withdrawing from public life, Weiner is
ready to stick it back in.

FORMER REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: Take a look, tell me what you
think.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Our number three trender: Anthony Weiner is in.

WEINER: I`m running for mayor because I`ve been fighting for the middle
class and those struggling to make it my entire life.

SCHULTZ: The former sex addict-turned-family man wants to lengthen his
political resume.

WEINER: Look, I made some big mistakes.

JAY LENO, COMEDIAN: He has fought long and hard about this.

WEINER: But I`ve also learned some tough lessons.

JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: I`m sure they`ll provide some stiff competition.

SCHULTZ: The number two trender: John McCain lets lose of Tea Party
troublemakers with.

CLINT EASTWOOD, ACTOR: Get off my lawn!

SCHULTZ: Arizona senior citizen schooled Tea Partier Mike Lee on how
Congress does business.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Maybe the senator from Utah ought to learn
a little bit more about how business has been done in the Congress of the
United States.

EASTWOOD: Did you hear me? I said get off my lawn now.

SCHULTZ: And this week`s top trender: Apple is at the core of the real IRS
scandal.

JON STEWART, COMEDIAN: Apple CEO Tim Cook was called in to face the wrath
of senators wondering how Apple had avoided paying taxes on $44 billion in
income.

SCHULTZ: Apple CEO Tim Cook got a warm reception from the Senate.

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: I love Apple.

(MUSIC)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I frankly think the committee should
apologize to Apple.

MCCAIN: What I really want to ask you is why the hell I have to keep
updating apps on my iPhone all the time?

EASTWOOD: Did you hear me? I said get off my lawn now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota.

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.

How long --

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

How long are the Republicans going to protect the corporations and the tax
code? It seems like the Republicans are just a flat out protectionary
organization for consideration corporations that think they`ve hired so
many people they shouldn`t paying any taxes at all. Your thoughts?

ELLISON: Well, they`re going to do it as long as the American people don`t
hold him accountable. But I think Americans all over this country are
really started to get animated. You know, two thirds of all American
corporations don`t pay me any taxes. Apple is fight for the right to not
pay taxes. But also, add G.E. to list and Boeing and Bank of America.
There`s a lot.

I mean, for the small business out there, the one third they do pay, I
mean, they`re shouldering the burden for the rest of the corporate sector.
It`s not fair to them. If you`re a coffee shop or you`re a small
manufacturing business, you may have to pay all of your taxes because you
don`t have a lobbyist to get out of them like Apple and some of the other
ones do.

SCHULTZ: We have the Republicans on Capitol Hill, Rand Paul, apologizing
to a corporation just because they have a lot of employees and have some
success. As if they want to rewrite the tax code even further in their
favor.

Here`s what Senator Carl Levin had to say after Rand Paul said Congress
should be apologizing to Apple.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The subcommittee is investigating the tax
code that is not working for the American people, is not working for
businesses in this country, where some businesses decide how many taxes
they`re going to pay, how many they won`t, what they`re going to leave
offshore in terms of profits, cooking up all kinds of arrangements to avoid
paying taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Congressman, what`s your response to that.

ELLISON: Well, my -- I -- it kind of reminds me of when Joe Biden
apologized to BP after they ruined the Gulf with their oil. I mean, all
this stuff about apologizing to corporations don`t do things that are in
the best interest of the American people is kind of a trend with my friends
on the other side of the aisle.

I mean, but you know what? The American people got to point out to them.
You know, taxes are not a punishment. Taxes are the dues we pay to live in
a civilized society. You want to make sure that we have decent
infrastructure -- oh, by the way, we had had a bridge fall just the other
day.

You know, there`s going to have to be some taxes paid and it should be
fair. And companies like Apple and G.E. and all the rest of them should
pay their fair share.

You know, a lot of these folks say, oh, we have the highest corporate tax
rate in the world.

No, we don`t. We have an effective corporate tax rate that is actually
pretty low. Nobody pays all those taxes.

But you know what? We need to have more people, more corporations paying
their fair share so that working people and middle class people don`t have
to pay as much.

SCHULTZ: So, the Republicans are saying that we are vilifying Apple, we`re
vilifying anybody who questions this is after capitalism, is after success,
and we should appease them because they`ve had so much success.

Bottom line here is, as what Senator Levin said, our tax code isn`t
working. Our treasury is short.

ELLISON: Of course not.

SCHULTZ: Fair share in the minds of the American people.

This is the lift of Congress right now at least on the Democratic side to
exemplify, give an example of what fairness is and move the public to
forcing politicians to change the tax code. Will it happen?

ELLISON: Well, you know, Ed, you know, at a time when we are cutting Meals
on Wheels, we`re cutting Head Start.

SCHULTZ: Exactly.

ELLISION: We`re cutting basic medical research. It seems to me only fair
that Apple would step up and help fund the country that has made it
possible for them to be successful in the first place.

Apple wouldn`t be a multibillion dollar corporation but for the fact that
the United States of America made it possible for them to be that
successful. It seems to me they ought to want to help to pay the expenses
of this country so that everybody can have a fair shot. I think it`s
really disappointing that they don`t.

SCHULTZ: There`s a moral equation here. I mean, what`s morally right to
massage the tax code through supporting politicians who are going to have
our back or to do your fair share on the country that has given you the
opportunity to be so successful. I don`t think they`ve got --

(CROSSTALK)

ELLISON: Fair share.

SCHULTZ: I really don`t.

Congressman, Keith Ellison, great to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate it so much.

ELLISON: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: The tornado in Moore, Oklahoma, left thousands displaced. But
the state`s legislatures has well, they`ve got other priorities. The rapid
response team weighs in on this and much more ahead.

And President Obama talks tough on drones? Film director Robert Greenwald
has reaction to all that and I`ll have some commentary.

But next, I`m taking your questions, "Ask Ed Live" is just ahead. Stay
tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: OK. Good to have you back with us. Thanks for watching on this
Saturday evening, 5:00 Eastern Time. I`m here every Saturday. I can`t
fish every day.

We love hearing from our viewers. This is something we`ve started and
we`ve decided to answer a couple of questions. We actually could do a lot
more than that but we`re going to answer two tonight.

Tonight`s first "Ask Ed Live" question. First question is from viewer Adam
Burnside. "How many bridges have to collapse before House GOP gets serious
about funding infrastructure repair?"

Well, I`ll give you a number. Thirty million people would have to be
affected before the House GOP would even talk about it because they have
voted down Obamacare 38 times now, which would deny health care for 30
million Americans. They don`t give a damn. And all those people are going
to die because they don`t have health insurance, and they don`t have any
way to get a kid of coverage. So, they go broke and then they die.

So when you start talking about bridges, the Republicans will make sure
they don`t cross them. I don`t think the Republican Party has any
awareness of the seriousness of what is happening to our infrastructure in
the country. Flat out, they don`t give a damn.

So, I`ll just throw a number up there -- 30 million.

Our next questions comments from Debbie Roy. "Do you think Scott Walker
will run for president in 2016?"

Oh my Lord, we could only be so lucky. I hope he does. He`s got a huge
ego and he is well-connected with people of the flock who hate unions. So
he has set the table as a guy who is willing to say anything and do
anything to go after workers. That`s going to bring a lot of money to him.

I do think he is going t run and I`m going to have a lot of fun with it.
Stick around. Rapid response panel is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEN. JIM INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: When a disaster occurs in America and
emotions are high, everybody, all of the sudden, wants to pour money on
them.

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: So, we`re setting with this tremendous
debt.

INHOFE: I have to ask the question as it gets closer and closer to
Christmas, why are we here?

COBURN: We`re setting with tremendous deficits.

INHOFE: It`s a disaster. I understand that. People lost their lives.
They lost their property. But nonetheless, we don`t know.

COBURN: What I`m offering isn`t necessarily going to be beneficial for my
state.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

That was back in December, when Oklahoma Senators Jim Inhofe and Tom Coburn
voted against $60 billion hurricane relief Sandy. Voted against it. Too
much pork in there, is what they said.

Inhofe called the bill a slush fund?

Victims of the storm waited out months of Republican obstruction before aid
was finally approved.

This week, Moore, Oklahoma, is desperate for aid after experiencing one of
the worst and most destructive tornadoes in history.

When it was other people`s problem, Inhofe didn`t support disaster aid.
But when it happens in Oklahoma, well, that`s totally different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INHOFE: That was totally different. They were getting things, for
instance, that was supposed to be in New Jersey. They had things in the
Virgin Islands. They are fixing roads there. They`re putting roofs on
houses in Washington, D.C. Everybody was getting in and exploiting the
tragedy that took place.

That won`t happen in Oklahoma.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, that`s because there was storm damage in the places that you
just mentioned, Senator.

In 2011, both Inhofe and Coburn voted against legislation to fund FEMA when
it was set to run out of money. You see, they just want to starve the
government. At the time, Coburn said that funding FEMA would be
unconscionable.

On Tuesday, the senator assured Oklahomans that any and all available aid
will be delivered without delay just as long as there are offsets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COBURN: It`s not about not helping people who have a need. It`s about
helping the people who have a need and not hurting the rest of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yes, we certainly want to hurt anybody else. We certainly are
Americans who we don`t want the take the shirt off our back anymore.
That`s part of a different culture. That`s what Americans used to be, not
now.

Federal disaster aid is usually passed as emergency funding but Coburn
wants offsets. Folks, that`s political speak is what it is. What it
really means is there are strings attach. It`s not really a budget. It
depends on what happens.

He wants to cut something in the budget for Oklahoma to get the money.
That money could come from programs which serve veterans, the elderly,
disabled Americans, poor Americans who already are hurting because of the
sequestration cuts.

Joining me now our rapid response panel tonight: Michael Eric Dyson, also,
Dr. James Peterson, and Caroline Heldman.

Great to have all of you with us tonight.

Dr. Dyson, what`s the difference between disasters?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the difference is it
happened in their backyard and the other one happened in New York`s
backyard. It`s moral hypocrisy at its worst and it`s political chicanery
at its worst as well, because, look, they voted against the $60 billion
that was to be given in the aftermath of sandy. The $11 billion that`s
left over, they say, hey, we can tap into that.

They want to set -- they want to have offsets against the $11 billion which
was specifically said not to have the need for offsets. So, even, there,
they`re trying to attach a rider that would then punitively punish those
other people that they would take the money from, (INAUDIBLE), from the
poor, from the needy, from those who are vulnerable.

So the hypocrisy here, Ed, is extraordinary.

SCHULTZ: Caroline, I want to play this for you. Senator Coburn, or let me
ask you this, what does it say about Republicans when I comes to disaster
relief that they`re willing to pick and choose who gets relief? I mean,
what we saw happen with Sandy was, I think, very politically motivated but
when I happens in their backyard, obviously they have a different opinion.
How do we break through that?

Should we have some kind of natural disaster policy?

CAROLINE HELDMAN, OCCIDENTAL COLLEGE: Well, absolutely should. In fact,
Truman established a fiscal policy in 1950, he meant to move it from the
congressional branch to the executive branch. And Jimmy Carter did the
same in 1979, when he solidify everything under FEMA.

What we really need to do is take this away from Congress and properly fund
FEMA. The reason that FEMA isn`t properly funded is because we have so
much more disaster relief needed since really 1980 and beyond with climate
change.

So, these Republicans are simultaneously promoting policies that are
causing climate change and then refusing to pay for the consequences of
that.

SCHULTZ: It`s exactly (INAUDIBLE). I mean, there`s no question about it.
They`re all deniers.

Senator Coburn might need to rethink his science here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COBURN: I tell you, if you`re living in that area of Moore in Oklahoma,
the likelihood of being hit by another tornado is about zero in terms of
odds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, even Senator Inhofe seems to get the link here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INHOFE: Those of us who were around in 1999, it`s just remarkable. This
is exactly the same thing, the same track, about the same period, the same
surface area that was covered as back in 1999.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: What about all this, Dr. Peterson?

JAMES PETERSON, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: Well, I mean, again, Caroline is right
here. We need to be addressing climate change. That`s what`s accelerated
these kinds of disasters.

And one thing that`s remarkable about this, Ed, it`s remarkable how more
efficient FEMA is under this administration than it was under the last
administration, which again makes the case for the full funding of FEMA and
to make it autonomous from the politics we see in Congress. If we leave it
to our Congress folk, when the political pendulum swings, people will
switch side as to whether they`re going to support FEMA. And we just can`t
do that in terms of how we address the needs around disasters in this
country.

But listen, overall, let`s go to the long term climate change, you know,
wrestle with our energy and the kinds of things that are really
contributing to the environment and these kinds of disasters.

SCHULTZ: Well, I tweeted out earlier this week, you know, if we`re going
to be climate change deniers, maybe at least we could do something about
disaster relief and come up with a national policy about so there`s no
wrangling going on about who`s going to get the money and who is not.

I mean, I think it`s atrocious that the people victimized by storm Sandy
still waiting, waiting months on end in America? Come on.

Turning to our next topic --

PETERSON: Don`t forget Katrina.

SCHULTZ: Yes, that`s very true.

Turning to our next topic, legislators in Oklahoma as if they`ve had their
hands full as of late, because the state is beginning to recover after that
tornado. But Republicans in Oklahoma state Senate made their priorities
clear on Wednesday. Just two days after the tornado hits, state senators
quietly passed a bill that would effectively defund Planned Parenthood.

Senate bill 900 passed by a vote of 33 to eight. Family planning funds
would go to public providers and hospitals instead of private providers
like Planned Parenthood.

Caroline Heldman, it seems like when there`s a disaster, Republicans
certainly have got a wind do of opportunity to do something under the
radar. Your thoughts.

HELDMAN: Absolutely. I mean, this is political opportunism at its worst.
In fact, they didn`t even put it on a docket. What is such a sham about
this is that Oklahoma already has the most restrictive abortion policies in
the nation. None of the Planned Parenthood organizations in the state
actually provide abortions and we`re talking about serving 8,400 people and
that being cut.

The biggest cut is really WIC, Women, Infants and Children, that goes for
food and nutritional counseling. I was a WIC baby, so I know what it`s
like to go hungry for a week because you don`t get your WIC benefits.

This is just unconscionable political opportunism.

SCHULTZ: Our next topic, Bishop E.W. Jackson, Republican nominee for
lieutenant governor in Virginia. Jackson has no experience as an elected
official but he does have a history of factually incorrect, inflammatory,
anti-gay, anti-Obama statements. He could fit right in with the right
wing.

Take a look at this video message he posted last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP E.W. JACKSON, MINISTERS TAKING A STAND: The message to Christian in
the black community, it is time to end the slavish devotion to the Democrat
Party. The Democrat Party has created an unholy alliance between certain
so-called civil rights leaders and Planned Parenthood, which has killed
unborn black babies by the tens of millions.

Planned Parenthood has been far more lethal to black lives than the KKK
ever was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Dr. Dyson, what`s going on here? Is this an attempt to make Ken
Cuccinelli, this year`s Republican nominee look less extreme? Because he`s
a hard righty, too. What about this?

DYSON: Yes. The philosopher Jay-Z had it right. We don`t believe you,
you need more people. We don`t even know you. You pop out of nowhere.

The Republicans seem incapable of making any kind of planning. You`re
talking about Oklahoma where they won`t even have $12.9 billion of disaster
of mitigation because they don`t want to study.

Planned Parenthood is not about abortions, it`s about cervical cancer
screenings. It`s about breast cancer screenings. It`s about plan --
teaching people to be parents.

Now, here, you got E.W. Jackson popping up, popping up. And here`s a guy
who`s a black puppet. He is being ventricalized (ph). His mouth is moving
but white supremacist ideology is floating through it and the oppressive
sorts of ideas that we can imagine are being evoked here.

Black people are not dumb. Just because you put a black face on
buffoonery, we still know the color of ignorance.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Michael Eric Dyson, James Peterson, Caroline Heldman, great
to have you with us tonight.

DYSON: Happy 35th birthday to my son, Michael Eric Dyson, peace.

SCHULTZ: Watch it. I`m going to show your prom picture.

(LAUGHTER)

DYSON: Tonight in our survey, I asked you, do politicians real respect
public educators? Five percent of you say yes, 95 percent of you say no.

The mayor of cable news enters the spin zone on his coverage of the
president. We`ll show you why it`s fact or fiction next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: For our pretender today, the master of make-believe has given us
another dandy. Bill O`Reilly can`t judge fact from fiction.

Jon Stewart asked for O`Reilly`s take on the White House scandal scare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: You finally have a few things that really look worth --

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Yes.

STEWART: -- investigating.

O`REILLY: Right.

STEWART: Is it joy? Is it sexual arousal? What is the -- what is the
feeling over there?

O`REILLY: You know, I`ve been too easy. I have been too easy on the man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, really? What a doozy that is.

Here`s exactly the mayor of cable news has been on President Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

O`REILLY: I`m trying to listen Barack Obama, the president of the United
States, who is speaking to the world, not just to United States, make some
sense and he doesn`t make any sense.

He`s not willing to compromise. He doesn`t see the big economic picture
and he`s way too far left.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States can`t
dictate what happens. But what we can --

(CROSSTALK)

O`REILLY: We`re not learning anything. He`s not being honest.

OBAMA: The notion that the health care was unconstitutional.

O`REILLY: This is B.S.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: Certainly not degrading or disrespectful. He hadn`t been too
hard on. O`Reilly`s antics are on par with the level of fairness and
balance you can expect from FOX News coverage.

But his disrespected the president, disregard of the facts, in really
strategic deception are quite another to be completely fair. In O`Reilly`s
warped mind, he does go easy on the president, considering how he treats
President Obama`s staffers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: Don`t block the shot! Got it? Don`t block the shot!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Don`t block the shot.

If O`Reilly thinks he can keep fooling the folks in flyover country, he can
keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

PAUL: This should be the thing that should just scare the -- the you-know-
what out of you.

We`re talking about someone eating at a cafe in Boston or in New York and a
hellfire missile comes raining in on them.

Your notification is the buzz of the propellers on the drone as it flies
overhead and the seconds before you`re killed.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: Senator Rand Paul spent the first months in office telling scary
drone stories. Thursday, President Obama responded for the first time and
ended up destroying Paul`s fear-mongering claims. The president delivered
a speech on the effectiveness of the drone strikes, and then he tackled the
Republican conspiracy theories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: For the record, I do not believe it would be constitutional for the
government to target and kill any U.S. citizen with a drone or with a
shotgun without due process. Nor should any president deploy armed drones
over U.S. soil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: By the way, Senator Paul and the rest of the Congress have had
oversight on every drone strike since the president`s been in the White
House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Let me repeat that -- not only did Congress authorize the use of
force, it is briefed on every strike that America takes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The president also talked about this American who was killed in a
drone strike in Yemen. He is suspected in a series of al Qaeda plots
against the United States dating back to 2009. Members of both parties
criticized the White House over the American`s death.

Here`s the president`s response to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: But when a U.S. citizen goes abroad to wage war against America,
and is actively plotting to kill U.S. citizens, and when neither the United
States nor our partners are in a position to capture him before he carries
out a plot, his citizenship should no more serve as a shield than a sniper
shooting down on an innocent crowd be protected by a SWAT team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m joined tonight by Robert Greenwald, political activist and
founder of Brave New Films, who has been over in Afghanistan and spoken
with those in communities where the drone strikes have been very effective,
but also taken the lives of innocent people.

Mr. Greenwald, what do you think of the president`s comments on the drone
strikes? He makes a strong case. What do you make of it?

ROBERT GREENWALD, FOUNDER, BRAVE NEW FILMS: I think it`s a mixed picture,
Ed. I think he did say some very important things about bringing an end to
perpetual war, which may be a realization that we cannot kill our way to
security which is fundamentally important. There were a series of
questions that were left unanswered.

And there were some things that frankly and sadly were really, really
terrible. The notion was reaffirmed that we can kill a suspect -- a
suspect, mind you -- any place in the world with a drone. That`s not a way
to bring perpetual wars to an end.

Also, as Jonathan Landry pointed out, they redefined it so it`s no long
every just the top leadership of al Qaeda, but we`re killing more people
than that.

So I think there`s a lot for us to wrestle with, but it`s not a pretty
picture.

SCHULTZ: Well, it doesn`t look like the president is going to change his
policy at all. He made a strong case. And it seems like both parties
aren`t putting up much of a fight on this at all to change this program.
Should we prefer drone strikes over conventional war? I mean, drone
strikes, as the president said, are necessary and effective.

GREENWALD: Well, that`s not the choice. It`s not drone strikes or war,
because we`re not going war to Pakistan.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

GREENWALD: I was in Pakistan, talked to person after person, innocent
people, mothers, fathers, children, who were killed by drones. So, there`s
no way -- I think it`s the wrong notion to say it`s either/or.

SCHULTZ: So, we made the decision as a country that there`s just going to
be some innocent people that are going to die in this war on terror?

GREENWALD: Are we being made safer by the drones is the question? And I
will argue from my trip to Pakistan, we`re not being made safer.

And if you read some of the material on it, the studies that are coming out
now, you can see over and over again, there are evidence that it`s not, in
fact, making us safer because the number of people that we`re alienating
and that are now dedicated to doing bad things to us, because of the drone
strikes.

SCHULTZ: And, quickly, would things change if the strikes were under the
Pentagon and not under the authority of the CIA?

GREENWALD: Well, it`s not clear. There`s a great book called "The Way of
the Knife", which talks about how we confused the spy and the soldier now,
so there`s no difference between the two. And now, the CIA has turned into
a killing machine, meaning we`re not getting the intel we need.

So, again, it`s a very tough issue. There`s no question about it. But
fundamentally, we believe this is a policy trying to kill our way to
security that will not work.

SCHULTZ: Well, certainly the president could have given the speech a month
ago. He could give it two months from now. He chose this week, in the
midst of a lot of conversation about the IRS, about the Justice Department
and Benghazi. I found it very interesting.

Robert Greenwald, great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW. Thank you so
much.

GREENWALD: Sure.

SCHULTZ: And that is THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. We`ll see you here
tomorrow night, 5:00 Eastern Time. Have a good one.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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